Author Topic: TPS voltage  (Read 8234 times)

Offline jmac851

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TPS voltage
« on: May 09, 2015, 07:46:50 AM »
What is the initial TPS voltage supposed to be set at on a 1996 California? This would be with the throttle plate completely closed.
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Offline tobydmv

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2015, 07:50:13 AM »
Is the linkage disconnected?  I think its 150mv with the throttle linkage disconnected.  Maybe 470 with it connected at idle.  How are you reading the tps?

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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2015, 08:38:00 AM »
Linkage disconnected, idle screwed backed off, 150mv.

That's the hard way, BTW.
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Offline John A

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2015, 08:38:58 AM »
In theory, at wot it should be 80% of the reference voltage,minimum.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 08:39:42 AM by john A »
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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2015, 08:38:58 AM »

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2015, 08:41:54 AM »
150 mV.
The 450 mV you set later is done using the idle screw, it's not a hard number, just gives you the initial idle speed.
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Offline jmac851

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2015, 09:12:38 AM »
Mine is set at 145.  Thanks for the info.  I'm concerned about the backfire on deceleration and thought that I might be high on the fuel going in.
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1996 Cal 1100
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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2015, 09:22:13 AM »
I set mine between 470 an 500 at idle.  I do not know why everyone disconnect the linkage, sets it and then connect the linkage and resets it, if it should be set between 470 and 500 at idle/1,000 rpm's. Makes me think there was something lost in translation of the service manual. 

While you are at it, take the tps off the bike, pop the cap off and inspect the inside.  Mine was trash from the factory.  Replaced it and my bike runs better than new. 

Offline jmac851

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2015, 10:01:04 AM »
With the link disconnected and the stop screw all the way out, I measure 145. The instructions say it should be between 135 and 165. At idle, my voltage is 365mv. (1000rpm) I get about 48mpg with this set up but it pops on deceleration. Am I running too lean?
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2015, 10:05:40 AM »
I set mine between 470 an 500 at idle.  I do not know why everyone disconnect the linkage, sets it and then connect the linkage and resets it, if it should be set between 470 and 500 at idle/1,000 rpm's. Makes me think there was something lost in translation of the service manual. 

It is to get close to that initial setting of the idle screw/open butterfly.
Once.
Initially.
After that initial setup, you shouldn't ever need to go back to the 150mv, idle screw backed out, linkage off, ritual; for simple tuneups.
Just confirm balanced and 2.1 degrees (or 3.6 for the 15M).

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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2015, 10:08:51 AM »
With the link disconnected and the stop screw all the way out, I measure 145. The instructions say it should be between 135 and 165. At idle, my voltage is 365mv. (1000rpm) I get about 48mpg with this set up but it pops on deceleration. Am I running too lean?

Your RPM are low.
Any chance there is an exhaust leak?
Your idle TPS should be 3.6 degrees on the P8 ECU. which is closer to 500mv at 1160RPM.
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Offline jmac851

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2015, 10:11:19 AM »
If I start at 150mv and bring the idle up to 800rpm with the throttle plate and then use the air bleeds to reach 1000rpm, the voltage is 365mv.  Is that what is causing the backfire on deceleration? Should I be closing the air bypass screws and bringing the rpm to 1000 with the throttle plate only? That might get me the higher voltage of 470-500mv.
1967 V700
1969 Ambassador
1984 Cal 2
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2015, 02:58:47 PM »
If I start at 150mv and bring the idle up to 800rpm with the throttle plate and then use the air bleeds to reach 1000rpm, the voltage is 365mv.  Is that what is causing the backfire on deceleration? Should I be closing the air bypass screws and bringing the rpm to 1000 with the throttle plate only? That might get me the higher voltage of 470-500mv.

It will be a little richer if you use the idle screws instead of opening the air bleeds.
Opening the air bleeds doesn't move the TPS, the idle screws do.
To stop my EV backfiring on overrun I turned the trimpot at the end of the connector plug
I believe it's CCW to make it richer, don't move it more than 1/4 turn CCW.


It's a weird pot of about 3 turns, if you go too far it will click and you loose reference to where you started, I'm sure you can get back there though
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 03:06:37 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2015, 04:47:38 PM »
If I start at 150mv and bring the idle up to 800rpm with the throttle plate and then use the air bleeds to reach 1000rpm, the voltage is 365mv.  Is that what is causing the backfire on deceleration? Should I be closing the air bypass screws and bringing the rpm to 1000 with the throttle plate only? That might get me the higher voltage of 470-500mv.


Air bleeds 1 turn open. Idle speed closer to 1200.
 1000 is too low.

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Offline rodekyll

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2015, 05:27:03 PM »
Quick tangent -- what's the reasoning behind 1200 v 1000 idle?  I'm asking because at 1200 my EFI'd 'vert wants to go for a ride without me.  At 950-975 I can safely idle it on the side stand.  My oil pressure is up . .  .   ?

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2015, 06:21:49 PM »
Quick tangent -- what's the reasoning behind 1200 v 1000 idle?  I'm asking because at 1200 my EFI'd 'vert wants to go for a ride without me.  At 950-975 I can safely idle it on the side stand.  My oil pressure is up . .  .   ?

My guess is.

That is where the right amount of air flows for a 3.6 degree TPS.
If you use a different amount of air, then you need a different TPS value.

Maybe....

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Offline John A

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2015, 01:32:03 AM »
When experimenting with TPS settings I set at WOT because of repeatability . At idle stop it can vary quite a bit but at WOT it is the same each time so that helps with adjusting to the hunnerths of volts.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 02:55:54 AM by john A »
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2015, 02:22:06 AM »
When experimenting with TPS settings I set at WOT because of repeatability . At idle stop it can vary quite a bit but at WOT it is the same each time so that helps with adjusting to the tenth of volts.
Interesting idea, nothing wrong with that. What Voltage reading do you aim for?

The throttle fully closed is repeatable too (see below), so you turn the TPS pot to read 150 mV
Once this is set you physically don't move the TPS pot again.  

I think what confuses some is the 450 millivolt setting, you don't touch the pot for that all you do is open the throttle to where it might idle, at the initial point the TPS pot is putting out about 450 mV once you adjust the idle it will read a little different.

If you were to back off the idle screw so the butterfly closed again it would still read 150.



At idle stop it can vary quite a bit  

I found as you did a high milage bike the 150 mV setting is not very consistent, it varies a little between throttle openings so I have modified the procedure slightly to have the butterflies just resting on the stops, they always read the same that way
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 02:30:29 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline John A

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2015, 02:36:12 AM »
By memory 4.72V, my notes are all out in the shop but I'm purty sure that's what it is and have found it to be good on pre '04 bikes, I haven't fooled with anything newer. If it's too high the bike will accelerate slightly when closing the throttle on the test ride.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 02:58:30 AM by john A »
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2015, 03:01:39 AM »
John,
       I like your thinking, You don't upset the idle speed by backing off the stops or disconnecting linkages so I'm guessing you don't look for 400 mV either just set the idle speed where you like it.

Like you I came up with my own variation, on my V11 Sport I mess with the sacred screws to get a consistent idle. My EV has no idle stop setting I just use the fast idle lever.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 03:04:40 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline John A

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2015, 03:23:45 AM »
Thinking about it, it mite be 4.82, when I get to the shop in the am I'll check.
John
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Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2015, 06:28:17 AM »
Quote
on my V11 Sport I mess with the sacred screws

Those aren't sacred screws.. they're just air bleeds. The later model injection had sacred screws.. ;D
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Offline John A

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2015, 12:25:09 PM »
Roy, I've been through my ratty notes and the conclusion I came up with is I set it at 4.89. Looks like I tried 4.93 but it was too much so I settled on 4.89. I found that .001 volt makes a noticeable difference on the test ride. You are right, I don't care much what it is at idle,long as it does. It works for me anyway and it's a lot less screwing around,although it's one of those things once set,it runs until the TPS wears out.
John
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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2015, 07:15:26 AM »
hi i have messed around with my settings because i thought tps was gone so i got a new one from cycleworks for 60 dollors post included to ireland
with new one and old one swoped over the running is the same so i conclude origonal tps was ok it was the air filter ws over oiled and washed and re oiled and then bined fitted new filter and black plugs went away  but setting it up to manual at 150 v it drinks fuel if i set at 150 mv open throtle and snap shut volts change even when i open and close easy it is never the same so how do i know when it is right i also had it back fire in over run and at lights it will tick over then cough and stall so wot sounds like the job
so set throttle at wot ?
bypass screws ?
tic over ?
pot in ecu ?

can you give settings for centauro .
 o yes the right plug is a slightly different colour to left with black sooty rong around outline of plug were threads end as a mate of mine says it is to ritch when you can see this sooty deposit even when plugs have a hint of tan with a clean (lean ) look to them and still different in colour to each outher .
to solve over fuleing i backed tps anti clock and move it a bit clock to find the sweet spot but not yet.
eric

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2015, 07:49:31 AM »
hi i have messed around with my settings because i thought tps was gone so i got a new one from cycleworks for 60 dollors post included to ireland
with new one and old one swoped over the running is the same so i conclude origonal tps was ok it was the air filter ws over oiled and washed and re oiled and then bined fitted new filter and black plugs went away  but setting it up to manual at 150 v it drinks fuel if i set at 150 mv open throtle and snap shut volts change even when i open and close easy it is never the same so how do i know when it is right i also had it back fire in over run and at lights it will tick over then cough and stall so wot sounds like the job
so set throttle at wot ?
bypass screws ?
tic over ?
pot in ecu ?

can you give settings for centauro .
 o yes the right plug is a slightly different colour to left with black sooty rong around outline of plug were threads end as a mate of mine says it is to ritch when you can see this sooty deposit even when plugs have a hint of tan with a clean (lean ) look to them and still different in colour to each outher .
to solve over fuleing i backed tps anti clock and move it a bit clock to find the sweet spot but not yet.
eric


The inconsistent mV is caused by slop in the linkages at least it is on my high milage V11 Sport. For this reason I use both idle screws, I find the closed position using a slip of paper as a feeler then wind both screws in by the same amount.

Wayne says air bleeds 1 turn open, that sounds about right, remember that may change a little when you balance the throttles, it's just the starting point.

I don't know why the Centauro would be any different.

In theory both cylinders should be exactly the same, perhaps you should have your injectors cleaned and checked for flow.

The pot in ECU, thats just the old pizza box size ECUs, its at the end of the long connector, I think you need Guzzi Diag for the later ones.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 07:59:47 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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eweltd

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2015, 08:10:27 AM »
so if i back off tick over adjuster screw all the way and creep it in untill the reading is constant even when throttle is snapped shut and take this  O and then set it for 150 mv and carry on with outhr settings

eric

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2015, 08:56:46 AM »
so if i back off tick over adjuster screw all the way and creep it in untill the reading is constant even when throttle is snapped shut and take this  O and then set it for 150 mv and carry on with outhr settings

The linkage has to be off, idle stop completely backed out, and the throttle completely closed, before you go for the 150mv. At idle (near 1160 RPM) you want 2.1 degrees, which is about 360mv.

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Offline rodekyll

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Re: TPS voltage
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2015, 03:27:28 PM »
Gummed up butterfly shafts and springs won't always close to the same point.  Although a few mvolts difference doesn't bother me, when my voltage is wildy inconsistent I clean the shafts and (with the linkage rods off) make sure the springs are free so I can hear the butterfly clack smartly against its stop screw.  Also, gummed, kinked, or poorly routed throttle cables can interfere with snappy butterfly return.

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