The 8v kick

[Trogladyte]

I love it. I know that the prevailing view in some quarters is that it is a facet of a less than perfect map, and with a better map it can be smoothed to give more linear power delivery.

But,as I said,I like it.

It's almost like having two modes. Below about 6k there's very adequate power on tap, and the engine feels muscular and aggressive. But when you get the kick, it all seems to change, and the bike is suddenly sporty. It seems to just pick up its skirts, and f*** off. And if you want,you can keep it in that sporty zone, by dancing on the gear pedal-not that I do. Much. 

So. Am I right to value the kick. Or should I be mapping it out?

[pete roper]

What map are you running? What year bike? What, if any modifications? Has it been tuned by someone who isn't a fuquetard?

If you're happy with it? Fine. Personally I'd rather set fire to my body pelt with a flame thrower than stick with any of the factory maps!

Pete

[oldbike54]

 Oh please Mr Trogladyte , make no further mention of this , we really don't want the smell of burning pom pelt assaulting our senses 

 Dusty

[Trogladyte]

You reckon you could smell me smouldering from there? I'd say you could be in with a chance, with or without the aid of an accelerant...

So...it's an 08 rollerised Griso, running a factory map. The map was updated to the latest MG had to offer at the tail end of 2014, when the rollers were installed.

So, reading between the lines, I think you're saying that I should consider a change. Is that what you're hinting at?  I have Guzzi Diag and a Morgan Carbtune manometer array...

[Lannis]

I love it. I know that the prevailing view in some quarters is that it is a facet of a less than perfect map, and with a better map it can be smoothed to give more linear power delivery.

But,as I said,I like it.

It's almost like having two modes. Below about 6k there's very adequate power on tap, and the engine feels muscular and aggressive. But when you get the kick, it all seems to change, and the bike is suddenly sporty. It seems to just pick up its skirts, and f*** off. And if you want,you can keep it in that sporty zone, by dancing on the gear pedal-not that I do. Much. 

So. Am I right to value the kick. Or should I be mapping it out?

My 8V Centauro with the C4 chip was just like that, and my 8V Stelvio with the latest factory whatevers in it has a bit of the same, although even though the Stelvio has more power on paper, the Centauro viscerally "felt" stronger - and since I'm not on a racetrack and not competing with anyone, then that's just fine with me!

That 8V kick is real and doesn't happen in the 4V bikes.   So ride it and enjoy it for what it is!

Lannis

[oldbike54]

You reckon you could smell me smouldering from there? I'd say you could be in with a chance, with or without the aid of an accelerant...

So...it's an 08 rollerised Griso, running a factory map. The map was updated to the latest MG had to offer at the tail end of 2014, when the rollers were installed.

So, reading between the lines, I think you're saying that I should consider a change. Is that what you're hinting at?  I have Guzzi Diag and a Morgan Carbtune manometer array...

 Well , I was referring to that other Pom 

 Dusty

[Wayne Orwig]

My 8V Centauro with the C4 chip was just like that, and my 8V Stelvio with the latest factory whatevers in it has a bit of the same, although even though the Stelvio has more power on paper, the Centauro viscerally "felt" stronger - and since I'm not on a racetrack and not competing with anyone, then that's just fine with me!

That 8V kick is real and doesn't happen in the 4V bikes.   So ride it and enjoy it for what it is!

Agreed. My Centauro had a kick that makes the Stelvio downright civilized. 

[Trogladyte]

Well , I was referring to that other Pom 

 Dusty

He's a Pom? Crikey. I had no idea.

[tazio]

Savor the flavor !
Though many seem to do fine on more "mellow" bikes..

[beetle]

Kick be buggered. A good map with right pipe will give you enough low end grunt to pull down small buildings, the skin off yer custard and easily pop a mono.

[bigbikerrick]

Ok fellas..I give up....what is a "Pom?"
Rick.

[beetle]

An Englishman.

[oldbike54]

Ok fellas..I give up....what is a "Pom?"
Rick.

 An affectionate term used by Ozzies when referring to immigrants from England . Or , at times a highly er , derisive term , I choose the gentler meaning  Pom , Pommie , Pomegranate/immigrant, rosy cheeked Brits .

 Dusty

[beetle]

Oft heard at test matches: "kill the poms"

[Bulldog9]

I'd like to find that kick, my 8V Norge has the opposite experience.... at 6K + it falls flat on its face & bogs down when given any throttle.... New plugs & cap upgrade, fresh valve adjust, TB's balanced, airbox is good, reflashed the ECU, tried a fresh stock map and a custom map with little to no improvement. No codes or other problems other than an occasional miss on cold idle. Overall, runs nicely with great grunt and power below 6K rpms.... . Only 2700 miles. I bought the bike 2 months ago with 1500 miles.

Hopefully the dealer can figure it out. The fuel gauge is off, so hoping it is fuel pump/supply related.

[pete roper]

Can you try a different pipe? That sort of sudden cut off quite often occurs with a clogged, fouled or loose and turned sideways catalyser. Norge uses the 'Cat Box' in the mid pipe doesn't it? Might be worth trying another one of those. See if you can borrow one or both from someone who has replaced their pipe an/or Cat Box with something else.

Pete

[Trogladyte]

That sounds familiar. My Griso did that a few years ago, although my experience was pretty extreme. I found that all was OK in the lower revs, but at 6k it went totally flat, and would not rev any further at all. As Pete says, the cat in the Termignoni was to blame. It had over-heated and swollen into something of an unholy cross between a tennis ball and the Death Star.

I think the problem was a missfire, with one of the (stock ) plug caps shorting to the head. It hasn't happened again since I went NGK.   

[Bulldog9]

Hmm, I'll pass that on to the Tech at Moto International. The bike is still under warranty, so I'm not going to be pulling the CAT. I do plan eventually to replace that giant heat box cat with a Y pipe in the future, but dont want to throw $$ untill I get this straight. Man it puts out a tremendous amount of heat...... 

Everything else seems to be running fine. There is an occasional 'hiccup' for lack of a better term with an accompanying metallic clack, but that is only on light throttle moments. I could pretend it is a Harley and set the RPM warning at 6000. The bike is totally driveable at 6K and lower, but I love that howl and pull at top and prefer to hang in the upper revs in the twisties.  Look forward to that "KICK"   

[pete roper]

If it's putting out a tremendous amount of heat my guess is that there is fuel burning in the cat. Either from misfiring due to intermittent spark or some other reason. If it is, or has in the past done that the cat will be seriously compromised. Is Micha still at MI? He should be all over this like a rash.

Pete

[Bulldog9]

Seems that way to me but what do I know. Yes Micah is still at MI, I go back in a couple weeks.

Will be interesting to see how it goes. I got a steal of a deal, so dont mind some hassle to get it right.

[Cool Runnings]

Get your kicks on route 66 

[esmurrell]

Guys,

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I do have a quick question.  Once you rollerize an 8V engine, is a new ECU map required?  If so, what map should it have (from the factory)?

Thanks,

Eric

[pete roper]

Depends on what map it has in it before.

Pete

[beetle]

Guys,

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I do have a quick question.  Once you rollerize an 8V engine, is a new ECU map required?  If so, what map should it have (from the factory)?

Thanks,

Eric

It should, because it seems the net lift and/or duration is a smidge different to the flatties.  The factory does specify which map it wants loaded, but they have not made new maps for the rollers. The Griso gets the same old 2230G803 map that's been around since 2010. They want some old Stelvio map loaded into the 1200 Sport. The Sport is a special case though. If you have been running a factory map, then simply resetting the trims should get you by.

[pete roper]

Whoops! Yes, depends on bike. I automatically thought 'Griso'. Sorry.

Pete

[Bulldog9]

Hey Pete if you don't mind me asking, what is it that makes you think a clogged catalytic converter could cause such a drop off at higher revs?. The general demeanour of the motor and its lack of eagerness to rev freely makes a clogged converter a common sense solution to me, but in some ways the abruptness of the cut off makes me think it may be something else. By comparison my griso is very eager to rev I almost feel like I have to hold it back. The Norge doesn't have that character or nature. Which could mean bad fuel supply or clogged converter. It's not a progressive limiting, the motor pulls strong up until the 6000 to 6500 range and then just drops off and goes flat.

[pete roper]

It's not just gas volume it's exhaust harmonics.

[esmurrell]

Guys,

Thanks for the replies on my question about the map for the ECU.  I have a 2012 Norge but don't know what map is currently running.  My dealer says an upgrade was not necessary after rollerising it but I thought I would check with you guys prior to picking up the bike.  I plan to get my bike on Saturday morning and want to make sure I cover all of the bases prior to arrival.

Cheers,

Eric