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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: fotoguzzi on April 08, 2018, 09:34:24 PM
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MM should have been thrown off the race.. BLACK FLAG!
weirdest MotoGP yet..
(https://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/61/photos/309000/620x/5aca684cbb5d2_ScreenShot20180408at20.06.27copy.jpg)
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"he was later handed a 30-second penalty for his clash with Rossi which saw the Spaniard drop to 18th."
So at least MM didn't score any points but he still kept Rossi from getting points.
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MM should have been blackflagged for his actions on the grid...ignoring race control instructions gets people hurt or worse...congrats to Cal, Johann, and Alex for a clean, hard-fought podium!
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I recall a couple years ago when Rossi was in ahead on points for the championship and he bumped MM and was penalized points and had to start in the back of the grid on the next race. It cost him the championship that year. Guess it’s different if you ride for Honda.
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It wasn't just Rossi. MM did it three times as I saw. Took out Lorenzo as well, didn't he? Clearly should have been black flagged. Idiot!
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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I don't know that Race Direction is finished with MM just yet. The Rossi penalty took a couple days to ferment.
Wiping points off MM doesn't compensate VR for his loss to the total championship and doesn't really send MM much of a punitive message. They both lost points for one round. Who thinks MM isn't going to gain his loss back faster?
The cultural direction MotoGP has been moving with the arrival of the new wave of elbow banging is concerning. Zarco was chastised for being aggressive and irresponsible when he first arrived. At that time I believe Rossi said something to the effect of: the game has changed and you either play it as it is or get out.
Today Rossi laid a big card on Dorna to think about: I'm not having fun racing with Marc.
He has been very clear he will race until it stops being fun. Can Race Direction ignore a broadside like that?
What if they let M retain his 5th place but transferred those points to Rossi?
Now that is a message Marc would grasp; "any penalty issued is going to directly benefit your competitor."
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MM has gotten away with it for years. We can go back a few seasons where Dorna favored MM and cheated Rossi out of another championship run. Clearly MM was the instigator to that but Rossi got the penalty.
But three (four? five?) penalties in one race, ignoring a steward, deliberately starting in the wrong spot, running into one (or two?) rider and crashing another? That's gotta be a record.
I am sure that MM will have his defenders here as always. Oh well, always fun debate.
It was crazy race as well. Satellite teams in 3 of 4 first posts with Suzuki taking 3rd.
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He needs something to wake him up, reminds me of how Senna got away with stuff.
I love watching the guy race but yesterday was whacked. The start thing was enough for a serious penalty ( heck the start was weird all around) but sheesh.
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And Zarco should have gotten the same 30 second penalty for doing the same to Pedrosa! Zarco races just like MM, will throw his bike inside in a turn any chance he gets. Look at the frame by frame on both incidents. Both JZ and MM thought there was an opening inside and the door was slammed shut after they got a wheel inside, then both DP and VR get bumped out and crash.
Dorna has to get this under control or there will be too many people watching and the internet feed will start slowing way down! Just because a rider starts a turn wide gives the faster trailing rider no right to go inside on them. We should all just take our turns. Maybe only allow passes when blue flags are waved? Too bad the races are gentlemanly like back in the Rossi-Biaggio days.
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I think a fair punishment would be zero points for Marquez, Rossi is awarded the points where he was at the time of the incident, and Marquez starts from pit lane on the next race. Then they will see if he can pass without knocking slower riders off the track. He isn't much on patience but I guess that's what it takes to win? Lucky to not have injured someone!
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Thinking Dorna wants a 2-wheeled version of NASCAR. The entertainment! The ratings! Doesn't matter to them until someone gets seriously injured or killed - if even then...
If they do care then MM should be black flagged for Austin (his favorite track!) and Zarco gets a start from the back penalty.
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what a bunch of horsesh*t I'm reading here... Rossi is a hypocritical ass. Biffed people of the track for years, now it's bad when it happens to him. Let him retire, good riddance.
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I think a fair punishment would be zero points for Marquez, Rossi is awarded the points where he was at the time of the incident, and Marquez starts from pit lane on the next race. Then they will see if he can pass without knocking slower riders off the track. He isn't much on patience but I guess that's what it takes to win? Lucky to not have injured someone!
Part of the problem was MM was lapping in the 1:49's and was coming up on slow riders in the 1:51's and 1:52's. Starting him from pit lane will just repeat the same scenario since he had to do the ride through after stalling his bike. He made up 20 seconds on the leaders in only 11 laps going through all the slow traffic. All I can say is if the slow riders know someone that fast is behind them, don't try to slam a door on them because the outcome won't be good.
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MM should have been thrown off the race.. BLACK FLAG!
weirdest MotoGP yet..
(https://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/61/photos/309000/620x/5aca684cbb5d2_ScreenShot20180408at20.06.27copy.jpg)
Hey Photoguuzi, can you post a screen shot of a second before that one, where Rossi left the door open?
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what a bunch of horsesh*t I'm reading here... Rossi is a hypocritical ass. Biffed people of the track for years, now it's bad when it happens to him. Let him retire, good riddance.
Spot on mate :thumb:, what really got up my nose was the pussy carrying on about the attempted apology :cry:, he has a very short memory :grin:
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<sigh> Tone it down fellas , they are all a bunch of multi-millionaires playing with million dollar toys in a billion dollar sandbox .
Dusty
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Door open? MM doesn't wait for doors to open. Or should I say he cares if there's a door there at all. I don't believe I've seen one rider wave (oops sorrry) that many times in a race before...
Maybe they should all take notes from Dovizioso... Let MM come in for the take out move, but open the door wide enough for MM to outdo himself.
MM is something to watch for sure, but he takes torpedoing to a whole other level.
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Hey Photoguuzi, can you post a screen shot of a second before that one, where Rossi left the door open?
no but I found this one where MM is thinking, Oops.
(https://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/61/photos/312000/1293312.jpg)
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Darren, Rossi left the door open, but MM ran him all the way to the grass. That's after he hit one (or two) other riders. Agree that Zarco was over the line as well knocking out Pedrosa.
So far as those here that hate the Doctor, certainly he's made some aggressive moves (such as at Laguna with Stoner) but I can think of very few times he took someone out whereas MM makes a habit out of it. Again, MM got away with it when he was screwing with Rossi's last run for the championship. MM should've gotten the penalty, not Rossi. We may not all agree with that but I think yesterday's antics might challenge Rossi haters to reconsider.
The difference of opinion is what makes bench racing so much fun. It seems like we're all biased when it comes to riders that we love and hate.
I may not be right but I am consistent.
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John, and in the presser MM acknowledged after the initial contact that he was out of control (from locking the front) just trying to stay up and that is why they went wide to the grass. I have not seem slow motion replay to confirm the locked front yet. The real problem was MM was going so much faster than everyone else and he was too impatient to wait for a mistake in blocking to pass. VR guessed wide and MM pounced inside as VR was slamming the door. As we can see in the first pic posted, MM was ahead by a tire width on the inside when contact was made. To me, that's just racing at that level. Just like Flat Track, give those guys an inch and they will slide inside and be bar banging.
As far as Zarco, I am a huge fan of his and Yamaha, but I had picked Pedrosa for a podium spot in the league and got screwed out of that with Zarco's move. I think there was less room for JZ than MM had. As a matter of fact I had MM, VR and DP on my podium. Lowest point total in 2 years, only 70. :rolleyes: I got some catching up to do!
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John, and in the presser MM acknowledged after the initial contact that he was out of control (from locking the front) just trying to stay up and that is why they went wide to the grass. I have not seem slow motion replay to confirm the locked front yet. The real problem was MM was going so much faster than everyone else and he was too impatient to wait for a mistake in blocking to pass. VR guessed wide and MM pounced inside as VR was slamming the door. As we can see in the first pic posted, MM was ahead by a tire width on the inside when contact was made. To me, that's just racing at that level. Just like Flat Track, give those guys an inch and they will slide inside and be bar banging.
As far as Zarco, I am a huge fan of his and Yamaha, but I had picked Pedrosa for a podium spot in the league and got screwed out of that with Zarco's move. I think there was less room for JZ than MM had. As a matter of fact I had MM, VR and DP on my podium. Lowest point total in 2 years, only 70. :rolleyes: I got some catching up to do!
pretty much as I saw it too. I didn't see that MM locked the front with Rossi but he was "out of control" from the time he killed the bike on the grid until the end of the race. I don't agree that it was just racing. He was too aggressive for conditions and ran into 2 or 3 competitors.
I disagree that it was a flat track move. Flat track is way too dangerous to run a guy into the fence.
But I don't believe that he was trying to take Rossi or Espargo (or Jorge?) out of the race, he was just riding carelessly to get upfront, frustrated and didn't care who he ran over. Now the infamous incident a few seasons back was definitely a deliberate act against Rossi by MM.
Zarco pulled a bonehead move but it was certainly in the spirit of trying to get a position.
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MM should have been black flagged. He finished 18th just in front of Vale after his penalty. BS!!!
He was faster than everyone, however that isn't free pass to ride roughshod over slower riders.
VR got hammered and lost the championship when he did the sort of same. MM rode recklessly and
has to be chilled out. Unfair to VR who was just running for points it seems. If MM is upset,
I'm sure Lorenzo will still kiss his pain away.
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pretty much as I saw it too. I didn't see that MM locked the front with Rossi but he was "out of control" from the time he killed the bike on the grid until the end of the race. I don't agree that it was just racing. He was too aggressive for conditions and ran into 2 or 3 competitors.
I disagree that it was a flat track move. Flat track is way too dangerous to run a guy into the fence.
This is how Brad Baker took care of a disrespecting competitor in a Flat Track race. Seems familiar :grin:
(https://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/1000_1x_/public/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Marc-Marquez-Brad-Baker-crash-5.jpg?itok=NS1l2kCr)
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In other news, I heard that Jorge doesn't think Dovi is fair teammate. He says that Dovi is trying to undermine him.
Now I find that funny on many levels. Rossi would probably laugh if he wasn't cleaning mud offa his stuff.
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While I enjoy MGP discussion unfortunately for me I don't get to watch it until the midweek highlight show so would you please not give even a hint of the results ( Rossi mugged ) in the post title. Thanks.
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While I enjoy MGP discussion unfortunately for me I don't get to watch it until the midweek highlight show so would you please not give even a hint of the results ( Rossi mugged ) in the post title. Thanks.
I'm sorry about that.. good advice I'll try to remember.
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MM did go crazy in Argentina for sure and I've lost a lot of respect for him but really Rossi took a wide entry to that corner and I've seen much tighter passes before that one. Sure Rossi ended up in the dirt/grass but MM's pass on Aleix Espargaro was far more egregious IMO where MM had no chance of getting the inside line on Aleix and almost sent them both into the weeds. I'd rate Rossi's incident 3rd or 4th in terms of bad racing with the Aleix thing first, then MM passing Syahrin and Morbodeli second, Zarco forcing Pedroso wide and then the Rossi incident. Dani ended up with a broken wrist and will not be able to ride in Austin so I have a hard time seeing much difference between the Zarco/Dani incident and the MM/Rossi one. One thing to think about is it appears the Honda is quite a package this year and starting MM at the back of the pack on a race track he goes well at could end up with even more tears by the time the checkered flag waves.
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looks like Pedrosa was the guy mugged. Wrist surgery.
http://www.racer.com/international/moto-gp/item/148596-pedrosa-has-surgery-on-broken-wrist
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here is some good video replays.. Looks like Rossi was not even aware MM was coming up on him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOgiaL1P1k
Here's what Giacomo Agostini said about it
https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-exaggerated-marquez-outburst-argentina-agostini-1024507/
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After watching the video replays multiple times, it almost looks like the red mist encompassed Rossi and he dove down into Marquez in a late attempt to block him. The pass looked way cleaner than many I have seen by a lot of different racers, Rossi included, where the passes did not result in contact.
Even though Pedrosa avoided contact with Zarco, that was the ill advised move resulting in a crash. Since no contact, no penalty according to race direction. And Alexis Espargo avoided "hard contact" when Marquez went under him. That contact caused the stewards to penalize Marquez, making him give up a spot. The Marquez move on Rossi looked mild in comparison to the other two, IMO.
This contact/no contact is starting to sound a little like the racing rules of sailing. If you don't have contact then you have to protest and prove to the committee that you had to change course to avoid. If you touch then it is more clear cut and someone gets tossed, if they didn't do their turns.
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you're kidding. He drove Rossi to the grass.
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you're kidding. He drove Rossi to the grass.
I saw that. Before that happened I saw where they were both wobbling after the contact. Before that I saw where Marquez was even with Rossi in the curve. Before that I saw where they made contact while Marquez was holding his inside line while Rossi was closing down on him. Before that I saw where there was a big opening inside of Rossi's line and Marquez went into it.
I saw some stuff man! :grin:
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Bump starting the bike on the grid? I thought that was a "start from pit lane" type of infraction. Riding backwards on the track is a big no-no. For that, you would be blacked flagged from the event.
What was it? Two or three passes made by contact? Thirty second time penalty.
Add them all up?? That sounds like an exclusion from the next event also.
Removing event points for the championship usually gets team attention.
Maybe he needs to run into someone in the stairwell....
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Bump starting the bike on the grid? I thought that was a "start from pit lane" type of infraction. Riding backwards on the track is a big no-no. For that, you would be blacked flagged from the event.
What was it? Two or three passes made by contact? Thirty second time penalty.
Add them all up?? That sounds like an exclusion from the next event also.
Removing event points for the championship usually gets team attention.
Maybe he needs to run into someone in the stairwell....
You can show the contact videos to a hundred persons and get a hundred different opinions...MM's actions on the grid were blantant, disrespectful of race direction, and a major rules infraction and deserved an immediate black flag...since no more sanctions from MotoGP seem to be forthcoming, I'm guessing they are still betting the franchise on his enormous popularity with many and controversial style that upsets many others...bratty behavior fills the seats as well as good clean racing, sadly... :sad:
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I saw that. Before that happened I saw where they were both wobbling after the contact. Before that I saw where Marquez was even with Rossi in the curve. Before that I saw where they made contact while Marquez was holding his inside line while Rossi was closing down on him. Before that I saw where there was a big opening inside of Rossi's line and Marquez went into it.
I saw some stuff man! :grin:
yeah man, I wantta see stuff too!
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Bump starting the bike on the grid? I thought that was a "start from pit lane" type of infraction. Riding backwards on the track is a big no-no. For that, you would be blacked flagged from the event.
What was it? Two or three passes made by contact? Thirty second time penalty.
Add them all up?? That sounds like an exclusion from the next event also.
Removing event points for the championship usually gets team attention.
Maybe he needs to run into someone in the stairwell....
Picky, Picky, Picky
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3oiQhhdz8ys/hqdefault.jpg)
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Bump starting the bike on the grid? I thought that was a "start from pit lane" type of infraction. Riding backwards on the track is a big no-no. For that, you would be blacked flagged from the event.
What was it? Two or three passes made by contact? Thirty second time penalty.
Add them all up?? That sounds like an exclusion from the next event also.
Removing event points for the championship usually gets team attention.
Maybe he needs to run into someone in the stairwell....
Funny how race direction and the marshals did not dispute Marquez's claim the marshal closest to him pointed back to his starting position on the grid. I heard that the confusion was because the lights had not come on yet so the staging was not technically thought complete, at least by some. Heat of the moment "Oh crap" situation and people make wrong decisions. They made him do a ride through, which was the penalty. He got a give up a spot penalty after the A. Espargo incident. Of course he was riding over two second per lap faster than those guys so it didn't last long. Seems some won't be happy unless Biaggi Stoner Hayden Marquez is banned for life from motorcycle racing. Wasn't someone complaining about Zarco riding to aggressively last season?
Are we channeling Tonya Harding here? :evil:
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Darren, All the other riders should've just gotten out of the way and MM should've been awarded the win for best effort and given a medal.
In fact, for COTA, Dorna should tell all the other riders to stay home because they'll only impede Marc's ride. :grin:
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Maybe he needs to run into someone in the stairwell....
some big ass Texan (0r Okie) at COTA?
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I'd hate to meet Darren alone in a stairwell.
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I'd hate to meet Darren alone in a stairwell.
If someone is going slow and blocking the stairs, I might politely asked to get by and even give them a little nudge if they crowd me on the pass. :grin:
Hey, if ya can't manage the pace, excursion and dexterity of using the stairs, maybe ya should stick to the lifts. :evil:
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escalators and elevators for me!
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Point:
Marquez should be placed "on probation" - Schwantz
https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/marquez-should-be-placed-on-probation-schwantz-1025596/
counter point:
Marquez "wouldn't do anything different" in Argentina fightback
https://www.motorsport.com/all/article/?id=1025085
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MM should have been thrown off the race.. BLACK FLAG!
weirdest MotoGP yet..
(https://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/61/photos/309000/620x/5aca684cbb5d2_ScreenShot20180408at20.06.27copy.jpg)
Rossi's done the same thing a thousand times and it's called " forceful racing" when he does it.
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Huzo, you don't show where MM pushed Rossi to the grass on the other side of the lane. If MM had kept his line it would have been a block pass, instead he pushed wide all the way out. An aggressive block pass in those conditions even done right was chancey enough and unnecessary. MM could've gotten inside exiting the corner and passing him clean at the next.
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Huzo, you don't show where MM pushed Rossi to the grass on the other side of the lane. If MM had kept his line it would have been a block pass, instead he pushed wide all the way out. An aggressive block pass in those conditions even done right was chancey enough and unnecessary. MM could've gotten inside exiting the corner and passing him clean at the next.
Well look, I have to back up a bit in light of that observation, to a large degree I'm bound to admit you're correct.
But..
VR did come in wide with ( presumably) an intention of getting on the gas early and closing down the exit for anyone eyeing a pass.
I'm suggesting he left a relatively wide gap, reasonably secure in the knowledge that he would not be challenged for the line, but MM was so on in the zone that he took the freeway that had opened in front and began to accelerate and stand the bike up for the exit.
VR would not let go of the bone and held his speed and MM would not roll off to hold the tighter line required to give VR racing room.
I'm not as big a fan of MM as of VR, but in this case I don't think he has much of a case to answer.
If you completely reverse the situation, I can see Laguna Seca where Rossi exited the track to pass Casey on the corkscrew and when challenged by Casey, offered the explanation...
"Casey, is racing no...?"
YES !!!
VR's crash would not have happened if he'd rolled off when MM appeared and cut in behind and underneath.
But I guess he knows that better than I do.
BTW...
Marquez should'a got the arse for travelling reverse direction on the grid then all would have been ok.
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More like Miller got mugged lines up on pole with slicks everyone dives to the pits to change their wets race start then gets delayed 15 minutes. Rossi and Marquez you ran me off! Pot this is Kettle..........
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Rossi getting away with it doesn't mean he should still get away with it nor Marquez.
Nothing wrong with a little bumping but really..
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Watch the video again focusing on what happened to Marquez after the contact. He literally was knocked off the seat of the bike and at least his inside foot flew off the peg. This was a near highside when on the gas and bumped. Rossi appeared prepared for the contact and faired much better. Problem was Marquez had to stand the bike up to regain control and in a curve that means running wide. Getting off line in those conditions might have been a bit tricky to get the bike turning again.
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One thing's for certain, it will be another contentious Moto GP season. As much as I love Marquez and the ongoing battle with Rossi, I predict good things for Zarco this season...
Either way, it's great fun to watch. It is interesting to compare Moto GP to Formula 1 here, some of the crashes in Formula 1 are absolutely epic...last year's Singapore start was one for the books on how "not to start" a race.
Vamos Marquez...a dominar otra vez capo!!
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One thing's for certain, it will be another contentious Moto GP season. Either way, it's great fun to watch.
That is the most important thing for sure! :thumb:
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rivalries and hate make for good racin' - Robin Miller (paraphrased)
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it looks like MM was penalized.
Not for anything he did in the last race, but he'll lose one grid because he blocked Vinales on yesterday quals.
wow, Dorna is really cracking down.
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One thing's for certain, it will be another contentious Moto GP season. As much as I love Marquez and the ongoing battle with Rossi, I predict good things for Zarco this season...
Either way, it's great fun to watch. It is interesting to compare Moto GP to Formula 1 here, some of the crashes in Formula 1 are absolutely epic...last year's Singapore start was one for the books on how "not to start" a race.
Vamos Marquez...a dominar otra vez capo!!
TOTAL DOMINATION!! The King of COTA maintains his reign!!
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absolutely right Paul. Another reason I didn't attend this year. (reason one was Tedeschi Trucks show in Tulsa)
Funny, I saw him crash big time and then saw him win his first GP. I was a fan for his first season.
Great rider. 3rd rate competitor.
(I have to wonder, if they put him at the back of the field like they did Rossi, how much that would've been?)
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The truth, no matter obvious, comes out: No question that Marquez ruined Rossi's last chance to win the world title in 2015. Now Lorenzo admits it. I think it reflects worse for Dorna than it does on Marquez. As great a rider that Marquez was, I think he'll always have a tarnished image due to his poor sportsmanship. Dorna allowed Marquez to get away with interfering with Rossi's riding when MM had no shot for the title. In fact, Dorna penalized Rossi instead.
www.motorcyclesport s.net
Shots fired: Lorenzo reveals that Márquez didn’t want Rossi to win the world championship after Assen 2015
2015 will be marked in the history of the MotoGP World Championships as one of the most intense due to
www.motorcyclesport s.net www.motorcyclesport s.net
Lorenzo, who would go on to win the championship that year, the quarrel between them made ‘stake out the varnish’, and #93 then had a ‘mission’: not to let Il Dottore finish the worlds in front:
– From that moment on, and from what happened in Argentina to Assen, Márquez didn’t want Valentino to win the world championship.
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Don't discount that Lorenzo is trying desperately to remain relavent, and sees more fun in being invited to racing at Rossi's ranch. I think it goes like this. When you own a class, and I think we can state that Marquez owned the MotoGP class during this period of time, and your out of the title chase, you want to play kingmaker to show it is still your class. For multiple reasons he was out of the title chase in 2015. Through boredom, ego, and some other less than great human attributes, it probably came across his mind during some races (since he wasn't racing for a title) to eff with Rossi. I imagine this would go on for a few corners or a few laps, but do not see it as a race long or multiple race strategy. I doubt there was any deal with Lorenzo.