Author Topic: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke  (Read 527 times)

Online Gusable

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Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« on: September 18, 2022, 03:17:15 PM »
So Iím going through my 94 1100 california and cleaned the tank  and carbs and modified the idle screws to the shorter .100 length

It seems since I did that the bike does not like to start without a little choke.  But the choke will easily foul the plugs. Iíve returned the carbs to the lean factory parts minus the 57 pilots I bought. As is running right now pretty darn good. Iím fighting popping out the exhaust this whole time.  I read somewhere a ďdryĒ k&n filter can do that.  Just oiled it and it made a HUGe improvement.  That comment is true. Oil your KNís!!

Now, Iím wondering should I buy some new full length idle mix screws.. cheap enough to try.  I never had starting issues till I did those mix screw mods. The screws are working and are very sensitive! So thatís good.  Also side question I wonder about putting in the Bosch platinum Pat Hayes spark plugs in this thing.  Wonder if they would stay cleaner.  If MSD made a 6A box for bikes I would buy it and fix all these issues!!! Thanks!

1994 California 1100

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2022, 03:19:34 PM »
And I donít find any vacuum leaks, and my slides are 60/1ís and they are almost fully seated.  Iím trying to keep them as low as possible to let the idle circuit work more if that makes sense?
1994 California 1100

Offline flower_king001

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2022, 05:02:12 PM »
Friendly suggestion

Bring bike or send carbs to a confident mechanic...preferab ly one familiar with Guzzi's
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Offline czakky82

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2022, 06:17:38 PM »
I understand your logic with slides, but I would raise them. Howís ignition curve?

Iím not familiar with Cali 1100s. Points?

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2022, 06:17:38 PM »

Online Gusable

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2022, 07:03:36 PM »
Itís digiplex 2s.  Which Iím not familiar with. Seems to be running quite well right now.  Iím on the right track. I think Iím going to order some 60 pilots to try
1994 California 1100

Offline Scout63

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2022, 08:54:40 PM »
I just installed K&Ns and Contis on my Ducati 860 and the same thing happened.  It now needs choke even when warm. It also doesnít really respond to air screw adjustments. Iím going to up the pilot jets.
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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2022, 10:16:20 PM »
Iím going to order some 60ís and put my k18 needles back in.  The tip is .040mm smaller on k18 iirc everythingís perfect minus some burble/pop at 1/4 throttle ( that I can drive through) but it runs strong in mid range
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 10:26:48 PM by Gusable »
1994 California 1100

Offline Stevex

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2022, 08:30:07 AM »
Isn't that the point of a choke?
I wouldn't consider starting my LM2 without choke; a couple of seconds and I take them off. Never been a problem.

Steve
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Offline PeteS

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2022, 09:40:43 AM »
Isn't that the point of a choke?
I wouldn't consider starting my LM2 without choke; a couple of seconds and I take them off. Never been a problem.

Same here on my Ď76 850. Do you have the factory carb settings? I would go back to those first. Only changes I have had to make over the years due to fuel changes are main jets. (Leaded 98 to current ethanol 93)  All low speed jets are stock.

Pete

Offline wirespokes

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2022, 12:55:11 PM »
Isn't that the point of a choke?
I wouldn't consider starting my LM2 without choke; a couple of seconds and I take them off. Never been a problem.
Same here - my LM3 and 4 both are like that. The LM3 seems to need the choke longer in cooler weather, but even then, I can turn off the choke and it will idle, just won't pull the hill out of the driveway.

It's a sign of a properly tuned carb when the choke is needed.

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2022, 01:49:33 PM »
  Did I miss something here , needs choke to start , is this cold and hot , or just cold ?  Peter

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2022, 01:56:49 PM »
Cold itís needed.  When up to temp it will start and idle while a tiny burble.  I think these 60ís coming and or my k18 needle back in is going to fix it.  Stay tuned
1994 California 1100

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2022, 03:44:51 PM »
My 1994 Cali 1100 would blacken the plugs with a 52 pilot.

Odd.
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Offline centauro

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2022, 05:06:48 PM »
" Choke " is really a misnomer on Dellorto carbs. The system is actually a fuel enrichner.
Pulling the plunger(s) levers adds fuel for a very rich mixture, which helps the cold start. Guzzi motors cool down very fast due to the extensive cylinder fins, and, unless you live in a very warm place, the "choke" is usually needed after 1/2 hours from killing the engine. However, depending on the set up of your PHF accelerator pumps, you may be able to achieve a similar effect by twisting the throttle fully a couple of times before hitting the start button.
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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2022, 07:33:31 PM »
I tried a couple pump shot twists.  Works but not as good as choke or enrichener.  With the dry KN filter it would sputter and pop out of the exhaust.  Just oiling the filter and a pilot change to 57s transformed the bike into a rideable motorcycle albeit with one little spot right in the 25% throttle that pops a little.  These pipes I have are pretty open inside.  I have no idea what brand they arre
1994 California 1100

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2022, 10:34:58 PM »
  That may be helped by raising the needle one clip !  Peter

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2022, 08:21:10 PM »
Huge update!  Yíall know the story of Clark Kent? Just a wussy paperboy and then he pops into the phone booth and shzaaammmm heís Superman? My 60 pilots came in with no other changes but the pilot going from 57 to 60 it completely transformed the motorcycle.  This this is fast now! It sounds PISSED OFF cruising down the street! A noticeable change in tone and attitude! Wow weíre talking about less than 1 thou bigger hole in jet
1994 California 1100

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2022, 08:26:46 PM »
My phone does not like this website- that last post was all it will let me then it starts locking up. Anyway the popping and sputtering I was chasing is gone. A few random pops out the pips on decel ( sound normal to open side pipes iirc). I just couldnít be happier with This bike.  Itís not the same bike I bought I can say that! I think itís a little rich in higher gears at lower engine speeds. Like 4th gear low rpm sounds a little fat, wet. Iím going to drop the k22 needle to 2nd position and try that to lean out the midrange.  I have an Ab atomizer I could try and a k18 needle.  Thank you for all your help!!!!!! Gus





« Last Edit: September 24, 2022, 08:27:57 PM by Gusable »
1994 California 1100

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2022, 08:30:41 PM »
All that said I did give it 4 seconds of tiny choke to start that then took it off. Once itís got a lil heat in it has nice cadence.  Did give me a bit of trouble on hot restart too when I let it sit for few
So it still ďneedsĒ a touch of choke to start.  Itís getting there 👍👍👍👍
1994 California 1100

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2022, 05:29:56 PM »
Using no choke.  Couple squirts of accel pump and she fires right off.  It did not like the second lean notch on the K22.  Back to 3rd notch and back to a beast.  I might try the 57ís and do the k18 needle to see if I can lean it out slightly.  Itís very close to perfect!!
1994 California 1100

Offline lucian

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2022, 06:34:00 PM »
Interesting contrast between a choke and an enrichener . The enrichener is on or off. a choke could be feathered as the engine temp rose. The ultimate achievement I have found with FI is to emulate the feathering of the choke during warm up. I miss being able to ease off the choke manually as needed. Now it's multiple corrections to multiple tables to achieve  the same basic thing. A proper AFR delivery from cold to warm . It took some convincing that the FI route was actually better. I kind of prefer the hands on choke method of days gone by. But once sorted a proper warm up map enables you to just start and go, regardless of temp. My LMIII requires enrichment always on cold starts. It is then a brief period of further warming until it runs as it should and if you leave the plungers open too long you have an over rich slug.  On the other hand after much  map editing, the FI griso can just start and go no mater how warm or cold . I'd say it's an improvement over carbs if you consider all the other benefits mapping offers throughout the range.  And no floats or needles! :thumb:

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2022, 06:55:29 PM »
I hear ya.. FI has its place and my EV was reliable other than the tps that needed replacement. Iím at heart a carb guy so this is more fun for me and I like the simplicity of it.  Clean workspace between the heads.  I need a small cresent wrench and a flat blade screwdriver to do most any roadside repair or tuning. 👍
1994 California 1100

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Re: Dellorto Phf 36ís donít want to start without choke
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2022, 09:19:10 AM »
Got the bike running very good! 57 pilot. K22 needle on 3rd notch. Ab268 atomizer.  Ethier little choke or couple squirts on accel pump and it fires and idles great.  Very pleased! Thanks for all your help!



1994 California 1100

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