NGC- E-Bike have gone to far!!!!

[canuck1969]

Saw this flash across my screen the other day.  If anyone has one of these I apologize in advance, but the e-bikes have gone to far.  They now make them to look like a motorcycle so the person riding it can look cool....bottom line I think these things are dangerous.  They are too big to ride on the side of the road, and too slow to ride in traffic.  Even a peddle bike can keep up with city traffic if need be.  Trying to maneuver around them is getting harder as they become wider, and roads become more congested.  They now come with a full set of panniers to add even more width.

No insurance, no licence needed.  Guess it will take a few people to get killed in traffic to regulate these things.....

Rant over........carry on............


http://daymak.com/pages/scooters/em1.php?gclid=CJDg-pTf_NMCFda6wAodr-8LSQ

[Kiwi Dave]

Simple.  The law there needs to change to accommodate this new mode of transport.

[KiwiKev]

I saw a really cool off-road electric bike back home, it had drive to front and rear wheels. More for farmers and hunters, looked quite functional- kiwi made maybe ?



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[Muzz]

500 watt motor. max out here i think is 300w to qualify for no reg, license etc.

[KiwiKev]

500 watt motor. max out here i think is 300w to qualify for no reg, license etc.

http://www.ubcobikes.com/ubco-2x2-the-two-wheel-drive-electric-enduro-bike/


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[jas67]

500 watt motor. max out here i think is 300w to qualify for no reg, license etc.

It varies by country.    In the USA, the limits are 750 Watts, and maximum speed of 20 MPH.
Some countries have a 500W limit, some as low as 250W.

The problem with this thing, is it weighs more than a Honda Grom (which it is trying to look like), but, with only 2/3 a of a HP.

Typical weight for an bike with a 750-1000 Watt mid drive is about 55 lbs (25 kg).    This beast is 275 lbs (125 kg).

[Triple Jim]

The widest part of a bicycle and rider are the rider's body and the handlebar.  I don't see any reason to think that the vehicle in the OP is any wider than the rider or handlebar.

As a daily bicycle rider, I agree that sharing the road with cars sucks.  There's nothing safe about it, and I believe that it's more dangerous to be on a bicycle on public roads than on a motorcycle.  I live way out in the middle of nowhere, and I seldom encounter more than half a dozen cars in a one hour ride, but the danger here is what we're always saying... car drivers aren't paying much attention, and certainly aren't looking for bicycle riders.  They're also impatient, and many want to blindly pass a bicycle without slowing down, regardless of what might be around the blind curve or hill.  In a city environment, the only solution I can think of is dedicated and separate bicycle roads, but given the minuscule progress that I've seen in the 45 years I've been a serious cyclist, I'm not holding my breath for a solution.

[KiwiKev]

The widest part of a bicycle and rider are the rider's body and the handlebar.  I don't see any reason to think that the vehicle in the OP is any wider than the rider or handlebar.

As a daily bicycle rider, I agree that sharing the road with cars sucks.  There's nothing safe about it, and I believe that it's more dangerous to be on a bicycle on public roads than on a motorcycle.  I live way out in the middle of nowhere, and I seldom encounter more than half a dozen cars in a one hour ride, but the danger here is what we're always saying... car drivers aren't paying much attention, and certainly aren't looking for bicycle riders.  They're also impatient, and many want to blindly pass a bicycle without slowing down, regardless of what might be around the blind curve or hill.  In a city environment, the only solution I can think of is dedicated and separate bicycle roads, but given the minuscule progress that I've seen in the 45 years I've been a serious cyclist, I'm not holding my breath for a solution.

I've been riding a push bike around Melbourne with my son for the past month and enjoying it very much. Getting fitter by the day though the hills still kill me they are gradually flattening out.

Biggest danger is from car doors opening in front of you of course but imagine it's safer here than on a country road where speeds are much higher.

One or two dozy peds encountered plus a couple of cars pulling out in front of me but so far so good.


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[Muzz]

http://www.ubcobikes.com/ubco-2x2-the-two-wheel-drive-electric-enduro-bike/
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Nowhere Kev can I see whether they are made in Oz or NZ. Nowhere do they say you are allowed on the road with it.

All the NZ based firms doing electric motor bike upgrades are limiting the motor to 300 watts, so I suspect that is the max for NZ.

That Ubco looks to be a really neat machine, ideal for rolling country type cockies. Decent range and nowhere near the maintenance required of a farm bike. 2wd as well. Ideal machine for rabbit shooting.

[KiwiKev]

Nowhere Kev can I see whether they are made in Oz or NZ. Nowhere do they say you are allowed on the road with it.

All the NZ based firms doing electric motor bike upgrades are limiting the motor to 300 watts, so I suspect that is the max for NZ.

That Ubco looks to be a really neat machine, ideal for rolling country type cockies. Decent range and nowhere near the maintenance required of a farm bike. 2wd as well. Ideal machine for rabbit shooting.

The bike shop guy said they were NZ made - pretty sure on that. Not sure how you get on charging out in the boonies if you're a hunter but a decent solar panel or two would work aye.

Funny enuff one was in the local rag the following week - stolen in Turangi so they must be desirable items.


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[Testarossa]

That Daymak scooter looks criminally inefficient. 275 lb, with lead-acid batteries! 20 mph regulated!  For that kind of performance it had better be dirt cheap. As Jaz pointed out, it's an underpowered pig. It claims 30 mile range, but only has a 20 ah battery -- at 72v that's 1.4 kWh -- good for about 10 miles unless you pedal like mad. It's going to take a hell of an athlete to pedal that boat 30 miles.

Fashion statement.

[Muzz]

The bike shop guy said they were NZ made - pretty sure on that. Not sure how you get on charging out in the boonies if you're a hunter but a decent solar panel or two would work aye.

Funny enuff one was in the local rag the following week - stolen in Turangi so they must be desirable items.
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I was at an engineering Expo today Kev and they had one there! A nicely made looking machine too, The guy was really chuffed to think that it was being discussed on a USA based Moto Guzzi web site!

I mentioned about the charging out in the boonies and he said that a shop called Supercheap Auto Spares out here sell folding solar panels; if you were worried just slap one on the carrier and place in the sun on arrival. He also said the quoted distance was offroad, and although not being licensed for onroad it will do 100kms. He did say also that a legal road model will be available this year and will be limited to 45km/hr, which will make it eligible as a moped under our licencing laws.

[KiwiKev]

I was at an engineering Expo today Kev and they had one there! A nicely made looking machine too, The guy was really chuffed to think that it was being discussed on a USA based Moto Guzzi web site!

I mentioned about the charging out in the boonies and he said that a shop called Supercheap Auto Spares out here sell folding solar panels; if you were worried just slap one on the carrier and place in the sun on arrival. He also said the quoted distance was offroad, and although not being licensed for onroad it will do 100kms. He did say also that a legal road model will be available this year and will be limited to 45km/hr, which will make it eligible as a moped under our licencing laws.

Hi Muzz,

Yeh quite professional looking machines aye, I hope they do well. Did you ask him if we get a commission on and sales we drum up - lol.

You have 3 Supercheap Auto shops down in Chch according to the interweb, they seem to be everywhere now days.

[Muzz]

You have 3 Supercheap Auto shops down in Chch according to the interweb, they seem to be everywhere now days.

Have one literally just around the corner from me. Very useful. Have a reasonable range of stuff.

[Testarossa]

Very skeptical about the Ubco specs. Their website says it's a 42 amp-hour battery at 50 to 58 volts. That's 2.4 kWh of storage, max, which might go 20 miles on smooth pavement -- 70 kilometers off road would require a lot of pedaling (the bike weighs 128 lb). Recharge time is said to be 6 hours on grid current -- at 110 vac, that would be 700 watts at 6 amps. Solar power in the boonies?  If you could somehow transport a standard-size solar panel (about 250 watts, about 1.5 square meters) and the appropriate charge controller, you could fully charge the battery in about 12 hours of bright sun. Maybe over two days?  Not a portable solution.

[Lannis]

As a daily bicycle rider, I agree that sharing the road with cars sucks.  There's nothing safe about it, and I believe that it's more dangerous to be on a bicycle on public roads than on a motorcycle. 

I think that's very true.   I used to ride a lot when I lived in Decatur, GA, and we could take the bike path out to Stone Mountain.   Back then, it was all country roads to the east from there, and we'd ride out to Monroe and Social Circle and Rutledge, and sometimes up to Lawrenceville, and feel perfectly safe on the roads, with the cars.   Somehow, it seemed that people were very willing to share the roads with bicycles, and we'd be on rides every weekend with the Southern Bicycle League or just by ourselves.

Today it's different.   In very many ways, I live in a very nice part of the country - safe, sociable, easy to get around, lots of jobs, lots of friends and family.

But no place and nobody is perfect.   Out on the country roads, starting with the end of my driveway, otherwise nice people turn into absolute raving assholes if you are on a bicycle.   Some bicycle riders do it to themselves by wobbling around in the road and taking up an unnecessary chunk of the lane, but even if you are going steadily down the shoulder or the white line .....

... the typical pass is that the car comes up behind you and just sits.   There's enough room to drive an airplane between you and the oncoming lane, but modern drivers have no idea where their fenders are, and are too distracted by their phones, to just simply drive around you leaving a safe 3 feet or so of clearance.  They just wait and back up traffic.   Then, when there's finally no cars in the other lane, they will floor the pedal, swing completely out into the other lane, and pass you while blaring the horn, screaming imprecations out the window, or shooting you the finger.   (Sometimes they act a bit embarrassed when you see them in church next Sunday and say "Yes, you passed me on Salem Road the other day!").

Part of the American psyche.   Real people, real men, real Americans, drive a car or giant truck, and the bigger the better ("AMERICA!  "F*** YEAH!").   Only homeless people, criminals, and bag ladies walk, and only f@ggots ride bicycles .... When I think about it, that thatched cottage in Kent seems better and better.   Then I get over it.

Lannis

[Northern Bill]

A lot of people I meet think I am kidding when I say riding a  motorcycle on the road is safer than riding a bicycle.  On a motorcycle you have some options but on a bike you are just a sitting duck waiting for someone to hit you from behind!

When I was on holiday in Amsterdam two years ago I did a lot of walking and it was quite dangerous.  In many places there were bike lanes that allowed e bikes or mopeds provided they met some type of speed restriction. Someone may shed more light on this but the bikes in the bicycle lane had a different colour plate.  It was pretty clear to me that many of the restricted machines had been hopped up so when you crossed a street you had to be really careful not to be hit by one of the hopped up machines. They just appeared out of nowhere. When you think how long it has taken to establish a few bicycle lanes throughout the country, the chances of providing for e bikes doesn't look to be too high.

[Testarossa]

When I was in grad school in Boulder, I cycled to classes. The bike lanes were one half of the paved pedestrian paths around campus. Pedestrian students and skateboarders pretty much ignored the yellow line between the walking path and bike path, and with their earbuds blasting or their noses pressed against the cell phone, they were oblivious to bike traffic either oncoming or overtaking. Bike traffic oozed along at walking pace, blocked by knots of walkers, much of the day. At night foot traffic was lighter but often they dressed in fashionable black and were invisible until fully illuminated by the bicycle headlamp.

Along Broadway, the main artery with cars and city buses, folks getting on and off buses had to cross the bike lane.

Now I suppose a lot of the bikes have electric motors. I wonder how that's affecting the bike path traffic.

BTW the law here is that if it has pedals, it can use the bike path. If not, it's a motor vehicle and has to remain on the road. Scooters under 50cc don't need license, registration or insurance. They have enough poop to keep pace with traffic, easily.

[KiwiKev]

Very skeptical about the Ubco specs. Their website says it's a 42 amp-hour battery at 50 to 58 volts. That's 2.4 kWh of storage, max, which might go 20 miles on smooth pavement -- 70 kilometers off road would require a lot of pedaling (the bike weighs 128 lb). Recharge time is said to be 6 hours on grid current -- at 110 vac, that would be 700 watts at 6 amps. Solar power in the boonies?  If you could somehow transport a standard-size solar panel (about 250 watts, about 1.5 square meters) and the appropriate charge controller, you could fully charge the battery in about 12 hours of bright sun. Maybe over two days?  Not a portable solution.

You skeptic!! It's made in NZ and we don't BS over here .

They refer to a folding solar panel which would be easier to cart around I guess.

Muzz or I will buy one and give you a full report, yeh right Muzz ??

They cost 7 or 8 k kiwi 🥝 so maybe not until Christmas.

BTW we use real power here 230v, none of this nanny 110v stuff lol.


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[Testarossa]

BTW we use real power here 230v, none of this nanny 110v stuff lol.

I've skied all over your Enchanted Isles and long to return. May be no B.S. but plenty of the sheep stuff.

230vac, of course. So over here our charging time may be 12 hours.

Folding panels?  Over here, the most powerful folder I can find is 160 watts, weighs 35 lb, would be barely packable on the bike (you probably couldn't lug anything else) and might take three days to charge the battery. Oh, the price is US$700. 

Also I see that the Ubco does NOT have pedals, so battery range is all you've got.

Maybe you could hitch it to one of them sheep.

[Muzz]

Also I see that the Ubco does NOT have pedals, so battery range is all you've got.

Maybe you could hitch it to one of them sheep.

The guy said they had done the 100kms on the road. <shrug>

[KiwiKev]

The guy said they had done the 100kms on the road. <shrug>

I'll see if the bike shop will let me have a test ride when I get home Muzz. If they still have one there, we have some hills behind our place that would be fun but doubt they will let me take it that far.

Will also quiz them on range, charging etc & mention possible interest in the US of A.   Lol [emoji23]

Unless you buy one before I come back in a week or two of course.


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[KiwiKev]

Oh yeh, I think I solved the charging issue overnight. Simple , just mount a couple of solar panels above the riders seat. Will keep you dry in wet weather as well with a suitable screen upfront.

I astound myself sometimes with these brilliant ideas I have.


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[Testarossa]

image upload

[Muzz]

  Nice one!

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Can it be had with a sidecar and trailer?

[azguzzirep]

Lots and lots of e-bikes in Germany. Of course, there are well established bike paths, too.

Lots and lots of older folks are out and about on their e-bikes. Maybe I'll get one when I'm old, too!😁😁

[Testarossa]

Today's high-efficiency solar panels produce about 15 watts per square foot, so if your motor cruises at 250 watts you need 17 square feet (about 1.7 sq meters) to run continuously without draining the batteries -- and that's on a sunny summer day for about six hours mid-day in temperate zones. Hence the big panel on the trailer used by the round-the-world traveler above. Use a smaller panel and you'll need to stop a few hours a day for the panel to top up the battery. Climb hills or speed up (using, say, 500 watts), same thing -- you'll need to stop and charge up the batteries from time to time. Like calculating efficient cruise in an airplane, there's a sweet spot where the cruising speed will cover the most distance before the sunpower/motor draw equation goes negative and starts to use up battery power.

[Lannis]

Today's high-efficiency solar panels produce about 15 watts per square foot, so if your motor cruises at 250 watts you need 17 square feet (about 1.7 sq meters) to run continuously without draining the batteries -- and that's on a sunny summer day for about six hours mid-day in temperate zones. Hence the big panel on the trailer used by the round-the-world traveler above. Use a smaller panel and you'll need to stop a few hours a day for the panel to top up the battery. Climb hills or speed up (using, say, 500 watts), same thing -- you'll need to stop and charge up the batteries from time to time. Like calculating efficient cruise in an airplane, there's a sweet spot where the cruising speed will cover the most distance before the sunpower/motor draw equation goes negative and starts to use up battery power.

And if you're on a trip and it rains for a week (which I've had happen in many different climates) you'll sit and sit and sit ....

Lannis

[KiwiKev]

And if you're on a trip and it rains for a week (which I've had happen in many different climates) you'll sit and sit and sit ....

Lannis

Yeh I guess, good time to soak up the scenery and the rain. Those panels provide a small charge even on cloudy days, I should say trickle charge in the rain [emoji23]


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