V7 Fuses and Behavior

[SmithSwede]

OK, so I was bored last night and did some experiments on a 2013 V7 Stone.  I documented the results for myself, and am posting them  in case anyone else finds it helpful.   Or is really bored.

         Normal ignition key on process 

Both tach and speedo needles sweep across gauges and return.  Fuel pump primes for a few seconds, then stops.   You can hear and see fuel swirling in the tank. 

All instrument gauge lights come on.   Shortly thereafter, the top 3 lights go out: High-beam, turn signal, and low fuel warning lamp. 

A second or so later, the yellow check engine light at the bottom goes out.  The green neutral and red oil light stay on indefinitely.

The front and rear running lights come on when you turn the ignition key, even if the engine isn’t running.  Neither the high or low headlights will come on.  However, the high beam headlight will come on if you activate the yellow passing light switch on the left handlebar.   Note that the passing light circuit bypasses Relay 5, so the highbeams should still come on if they are good, even if Relay 5 is bad. 

About a second after the engine starts, the headlight (either high or low) will come on and stay on automatically.  The ECU must recognize the engine is running, and it responds by grounding pin 33 of the ECU, thereby closing Relay 5.

All the above happens regardless of the position of the kill switch.     

          Side-stand DOWN, in first gear.

Gauges are as described above, engine will not crank, regardless of clutch position.

          Side stand UP, in first gear.

Engine won’t start if clutch is out.   Engine will start if the clutch pulled in.

          Kill Switch On

The engine will not crank at all.  No click, no nothing, regardless of whether the clutch is in or out, side stand up or down, or bike is in neutral.   

          What Happens if Fuse Blows.

Removing fuses towards the front of the bike and working rearwards:

Remove Red 10A. [Fuse A].   The engine starts and runs.  Running lights and horn don’t work.
 
Remove Blue 15A [Fuse B].  Engine starts and runs.  Brake lights and turn signals work.  Horn works.  But both high and low headlights are out. 

-->  So I think if you have a charging problem and are trying to preserve battery power until you can get home, this is the fuse to remove. 

Remove Blue 15A [Fuse C].   The gauges do not sweep or light up.  The fuel pump does not prime.  The engine won’t crank.  Turn signals don’t work.   But the horn does work, as do the running and brake lights.   

Remove Yellow 5A [Fuse D].    Really weird.   The fuel pump primes.  The gauge needles do not sweep immediately like they normally do, but do later before the engine cranks.   Then they sweep a second time after the engine cranks.  The gauge needles act weird.  The  tachometer doesn’t register rpm at first, but then later it does register.  The engine cranks and runs.  But after the engine is shut off, the tach needle stays stuck at its prior idle speed reading rather than fall back to zero. 

The turn signals do not work, but the turn signal indicator does work!   The horn works, as do the running and brake lights.

Remove Yellow 5A [Fuse E].   The gauge needles sweep.  All gauge lights come on at first, but then the green (neutral) cuts off right away despite the bike being in neutral.  The yellow check engine goes out right away.   

The fuel pump does not prime.    The running lights work, as do the brake lights and turn signals.  The turn signal indicator works.   Horn works.    The engine will not crank. 

Remove Green 30A [Fuse F].  Nothing.  Needles don’t sweep. Gauges lights don’t come on.  Fuel pump doesn’t prime.  No running or brake lights.  No turn signals or indicator or horn.  Engine won't crank.  Totally dead. 
 
Relays.

There are three relays on the right side of the bike, under the gas tank, just above the chrome cover for the fuel injectors.  They are the same relays, which means you can swap them around if needed to diagnose a problem or get home. Mine say LI L5A. 12V30A.  I think these are very common relays.

The first relay, closest to the front wheel, is the relay for the starter motor.  This is relay # 6 in the Guzzi wiring diagram.  If it doesn’t work or is removed, the starter motor does nothing.  If the relay is corroded or sticky, the starter motor may spin then stop in one second.  Or it may spin weakly.   It can imitate a weak battery.

The relay in the middle is for the high and low head beams.  # 5 on the Guzzi wiring diagram.  If this one doesn’t work, you have no headlights.   But you could borrow that one and swap it with others if you are trying to get home in the daylight.

The relay at the end, closest to the rear tire, is the relay for the fuel injectors.  # 28 on the Guzzi wiring diagram.  If this one doesn’t work, the starter motor will still crank, but the bike will not start for lack of fuel. 

[Kev m]

Noted and recorded for future reference.

Thanks.

[Das]

Good to know.  Appreciate the contribution.

Das

[davedel44]

OK, so I was bored last night and did some experiments on a 2013 V7 Stone.  I documented the results for myself, and am posting them  in case anyone else finds it helpful.   Or is really bored.

         Normal ignition key on process 

Both tach and speedo needles sweep across gauges and return.  Fuel pump primes for a few seconds, then stops.   You can hear and see fuel swirling in the tank. 

All instrument gauge lights come on.   Shortly thereafter, the top 3 lights go out: High-beam, turn signal, and low fuel warning lamp. 

A second or so later, the yellow check engine light at the bottom goes out.  The green neutral and red oil light stay on indefinitely.

The running lights come on when you turn the ignition key, even if the engine isn’t running.  The headlight does not come on.   About a second after the engine starts, the headlight comes on.   

All the above happens regardless of the position of the kill switch.     

          Side-stand DOWN, in first gear.

Gauges are as described above, engine will not crank, regardless of clutch position.

          Side stand UP, in first gear.

Engine won’t start if clutch is out.   Engine will start if the clutch pulled in.

          Kill Switch On

The engine will not crank at all.  No click, no nothing, regardless of whether the clutch is in or out, side stand up or down, or bike is in neutral.   

          What Happens if Fuse Blows.

Removing fuses towards the front of the bike and working rearwards:

Remove Red 10A. [Fuse A].   The engine starts and runs.  Running lights and horn don’t work.
 
Remove Blue 15A [Fuse B].  Engine starts and runs.  Brake lights and turn signals work.  Horn works.  But both high and low headlights are out. 

-->  So I think if you have a charging problem and are trying to preserve battery power until you can get home, this is the fuse to remove. 

Remove Blue 15A [Fuse C].   The gauges do not sweep or light up.  The fuel pump does not prime.  The engine won’t crank.  Turn signals don’t work.   But the horn does work, as do the running and brake lights.   

Remove Yellow 5A [Fuse D].    Really weird.   The fuel pump primes.  The gauge needles do not sweep immediately like they normally do, but do later before the engine cranks.   Then they sweep a second time after the engine cranks.  The gauge needles act weird.  The  tachometer doesn’t register rpm at first, but then later it does register.  The engine cranks and runs.  But after the engine is shut off, the tach needle stays stuck at its prior idle speed reading rather than fall back to zero. 

The turn signals do not work, but the turn signal indicator does work!   The horn works, as do the running and brake lights.

Remove Yellow 5A [Fuse E].   The gauge needles sweep.  All gauge lights come on at first, but then the green (neutral) cuts off right away despite the bike being in neutral.  The yellow check engine goes out right away.   

The fuel pump does not prime.    The running lights work, as do the brake lights and turn signals.  The turn signal indicator works.   Horn works.    The engine will not crank. 

Remove Green 30A [Fuse F].  Nothing.  Needles don’t sweep. Gauges lights don’t come on.  Fuel pump doesn’t prime.  No running or brake lights.  No turn signals or indicator or horn.  Engine won't crank.  Totally dead.

You are a meticulous Son of a Gun, must be the lawyer in you

Printing a copy to slip in with my tool kit.

Dave
Galveston

[PJPR01]

Prescott...could you confirm the above sequence of events is the same whether the bike is parked front wheel uphill or downhill? 

I’ve heard strange stories of a V7 that exhibited very odd starting behavior at this strange location called Woolaroc!

 

[SmithSwede]

Prescott...could you confirm the above sequence of events is the same whether the bike is parked front wheel uphill or downhill.

 

Good point Paul.  Let me be more precise.   

All my readings were taken with the bike dead level and the front wheel pointed in compass 165 degrees, so almost due South.  Yes, I just measured that out of boredom.   

Magnetic declination in my area is a bit more than 3 degrees.   
According to my homemade Bukard Trap, the ragweed pollen count at my test site was about 725 per cubic meter.

Paul, do you have a homemade Bukard Trap?

[oldbike54]

 The "Incident at Woolaroc" was actually a false memory planted in a couple of high powered brains that may or may not be based on an event that occurred in real life . In fact Woolaroc may or may not be an actual physical place invented by aliens to lure unsuspecting Texans to NE Oklahoma . The Texans in question should probably be examined for small precision incisions on the back of their necks where microprobes were inserted by said aliens for tracking purposes .

 Dusty

[Andy1]

Sounds like the 30A fuse is the master with the other fuses independently wired in parallel ‘downstream’ of it.
So if you overload one of the 15A fuses you just loose that circuit.
It ties in with another thread about battery drain when parked up
Thanks Swede
AndyB

[PJPR01]

Good one guys!!

[SmithSwede]

New and improved.  Now with relays !

[Kiwi_Roy]

Im not sure if you mentioned another quirky thing.
If you have the key On and push the bike without the motor running the lights turn on.

[SmithSwede]

Are you serious?   Or is this some gag to get the rube to push his bike around at night waiting for the headlight.   

[cowtownchemist]

Thanks for posting that info. Two years later you just helped me solve why my horn suddenly stopped working. Fuse A, the 10 Amp one was blown. Easy fix!

Now to figure out WHY it blew...

[chuck peterson]

You hooked me on the simple stuff first and then slowly reeled me in with all that electrickery…an amazing study i say!

[sib]

One other obscure bit of electrickery:  On the V7(I) and V7II (I haven't yet checked the V7E5), if the clutch lever at the handlebar isn't fully extended, or if for any other reason the microswitch plunger isn't fully in, the parasitic current on the battery will be high enough (~55 mA) to drain the battery in a week or two.  When the plunger is in, the parasitic current drops to ~2mA.

[GRGuzzi]

In my area (Greece Saronic gulf) the magnetic declination is +4.91°.
I admire your patience.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Are you serious?   Or is this some gag to get the rube to push his bike around at night waiting for the headlight.   

Yes i'm serious, I kid you not, that's the way my V7III is anyway.
Of course nothing happens if you don't have the key On and the lights come on if the motor is running
If you turn the key On but don't start, the lights will come on if you move the bike even at about 1 mph
Stop pushing and the Light Logic Relay turns Off after about 10 seconds.
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When I first got my V7 I added a 12 Volt LED from each relay 87 contact to chassis Start Relay, Injection Relay, Light Logic Relay
When you turn the key On the Injection relay closes for ~ 3 seconds then opens. (its priming the injectors)
If you press the start button the Start Relay closes of course followed a split second later by the Injection Relay then as the engine catches the Light Logic Relay.
When you turn the key Off the Injection relay goes Open followed about 10 seconds later by the Light Logic Relay

BTW The Injection Relay light while cranking assures, me that the Crank Position Sensor is working.