Author Topic: 2 Stroke Ban  (Read 3140 times)

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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2 Stroke Ban
« on: September 27, 2021, 04:25:32 AM »
At our local coffee meet outside today we were annoyed by a guy blowing leaves with one of those 2 stroke backpack blowers, you could hardly hear yourself think, the operator of course was wearing the customary hearing protection.
He very kindly agreed to stop blowing for a while but the subject of 2 stroke motors being banned in California came up.
It was pointed out that the new 4 stroke blowers also use a total loss oil system oil and gas mixed, they are just as noisy, and just as environmentally unfriendly.
I was curious to see what others think, should we go back to raking the leaves?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 04:33:34 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Old Jock

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2021, 04:42:44 AM »
I hate these garden 2 stroke tools, next door has gardeners that subject us to strimmers and leaf blowers early(ish) in the morning, the cacophany doesn't do much for neigbourly diplomacy.

That's soley on the racket they make, they'd fit right in with the Hardley Boys

I'm actually surprised that nobody has imposed bans on 2 stroke engines at least for motorcycles yet.

I'd be totally against it but everything, I read and watch I see the Eco warriors out leaping out the woodwork, looking for something to rage against.

2 strokes come in all shapes and forms and don't need to burn oil, that's just one particular design on what is a whole range of engines

As far as blowers and all the other implemets, IMHO they have their uses, but are now too cheap and overused.

I rake the leaves in my small garden

Offline Aaron D.

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2021, 06:31:41 AM »
I don't know of any ban, but the emissions laws were easier to meet with  strokes.

Is there a ban specifically on 2 strokes in California?

Offline Scout63

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2021, 06:38:39 AM »
I’ve gone electric for yard tools.  No winterizing, broken primer bulbs, etc.  I don’t mind the noise in the neighborhood though. It shows someone is taking care of their property or earning an honest living.
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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2021, 06:38:39 AM »

Offline larrys

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2021, 07:57:20 AM »
I think that the nature of the neighborhood would be a factor. If you live on a .10 acre lot with your neighbors close, then you probably have a small enough yard to make electric yard machines practical. If you have a large property, electric mowers and leaf blowers just aren't big enough. YMMV.
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Online AJ Huff

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2021, 08:37:27 AM »
You guys love your gasoline power. Go electric!!!

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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2021, 08:50:57 AM »
You buying them for me AJ?  :evil: Thought not. Until my i.c.e. powered trimmer and blower die of natural causes, I'll keep on using them.
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Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2021, 09:30:48 AM »
We don't all live next door to your Starbucks. We in rural areas don't need the city folks dictating for us. Enough laws already. MYOB.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2021, 09:35:54 AM »
I think that the nature of the neighborhood would be a factor. If you live on a .10 acre lot with your neighbors close, then you probably have a small enough yard to make electric yard machines practical. If you have a large property, electric mowers and leaf blowers just aren't big enough. YMMV.
Larry

And a big enough yard you don't use a leaf blower.  You use mulching blades on the tractor, or clippings catchers behind the tractor.

What pisses me off is blowing yard crap into the road.
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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2021, 10:49:44 AM »
...We have a 2 stroke leaf blower...It's used to herd the hens back into their enclosure.. The wind does a good enough job of leaf blowing . You all need to grow something useful like vegetables and herbs in place of a lawn...

Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2021, 11:05:23 AM »
I live on a 2acre wooded steep slope parcel, and I only have a couple hundred square ft of grass. Battery string trimmer and mower are plenty for that, but most of my 'yardwork' requires a 2-stroke sthil brushcutter and a chainsaw. 

I will say I got a Milwaukee M18 blower with a 50a battery and I am SURE no gas powered blower even comes close to that thing, it is a BEAST

other best battery-op lawn goody I check out from the Asheville Tool Library is this thing:


That thing is amazing! Chain needs sharpening every few hours (short chain- shorter interval) but otherwise it is super
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Online AJ Huff

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2021, 11:41:01 AM »
I doubt there will be a ban on 2 strokes so much as manufactures will stop making them making them obsolete.

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Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2021, 12:51:00 PM »
This thread is getting very close to a "Git off my lawn you Damn Kids!" thread.  Or one of those "Me" vs "We" threads.

The environmental "We" would all benefit from less pollution due to a lower national speed limit, and countless lives would be saved by limiting motorcycles to 25 HP and cars to 80 HP.  Especially if the national speed limit is 40 mph.

A ton of "Me's" out there wouldn't like it much though.  One or two sizes fits all never seems to go over well.

Electric tools are convenient and great for some jobs.  Remember when you had to drag around extension cords?  Bigger jobs may require the greater HP of gasoline tools.  Until the "We" thinkers want to buy all the tools for the "Me's", enjoy your ability to buy what you want and/or need.

Not sure if I am greener than an electric mower user by cutting my lawn at 5.5" and waiting until it gets to 10" before mowing and using a gas mower.  My neighbors are cutting their lawns 4-5 times for every time I cut mine.  Sooner or later, all those dead electrons are gonna start affecting the environment negatively!!!   :wink:

Never tell your neighbor who bags their grass clippings that they are depleting the soil of nutrients.  They don't like it!
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Offline HDGoose

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2021, 01:32:29 PM »
I have yet to have any electric tool (shop or yard) battery last 3 years. My gas items are going on 5 years with me. And I inherited then from my in-laws. They are 12+ years old

new batteries for the tools we have are 2/3 the cost of a new electric tool. 

Offline berniebee

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2021, 01:46:35 PM »

It was pointed out that the new 4 stroke blowers also use a total loss oil system oil and gas mixed, they are just as noisy, and just as environmentally unfriendly.


 A 4 stroke engine with a total oil loss system?  I had to look it up. Sure enough Stihl makes one, calls it the 4-mix engine. I can see the advantage- no sump so you can run it upside down. And it should run cleaner than a 2 stroke because the valves control intake and exhaust to reduce unburned fuel.
But you still have to mix gas and oil, requiring a dedicated fuel container- and my distant memories are that it's a pain in the butt to do. If Yamaha could do oil injection in the 1970's, why don't modern engines have this feature?

Stihl says the 4-mix has a higher torque than a 2 stroke and a "pleasant sound".

Offline larrys

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2021, 01:56:34 PM »
And a big enough yard you don't use a leaf blower.  You use mulching blades on the tractor, or clippings catchers behind the tractor.

What pisses me off is blowing yard crap into the road.

I have a squirrel cage blower on wheels that has a 10HP B+S engine and a 80cc Shindaiwa backpack blower. I pay a young couple some cash and all the firewood they can take to use those tools in my yard. I have forest on two sides of my property so the leaves get blown into the woods.
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Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2021, 02:33:42 PM »
I have a squirrel cage blower on wheels that has a 10HP B+S engine and a 80cc Shindaiwa backpack blower. I pay a young couple some cash and all the firewood they can take to use those tools in my yard. I have forest on two sides of my property so the leaves get blown into the woods.
Larry

A man after my own heart!!! 

Always amazed me to see neighbors bag their leaves and put them by the side of the road for pick up, rather than simply blow them into the adjacent woods.  I suspect some view leafs on the ground as somewhat dirty or unhealthy.  I'm pretty sure leaves are biodegradable.

I have a 30' x 120' fenced in area for leaf storage.  I fenced it in for my dogs.  Before three of my neighbors got lazy, four of us could fill that whole area 18" deep with leaves.  A half dozen leaf piles 5' high were great fun for the dogs, kids, and observers.

Two dogs can run the leafs into dust in less than 6 months.

Now I am the only one who puts leaves in there!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 03:33:15 PM by SIR REAL ED »
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Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2021, 02:38:06 PM »
But you still have to mix gas and oil, requiring a dedicated fuel container- and my distant memories are that it's a pain in the butt to do. If Yamaha could do oil injection in the 1970's, why don't modern engines have this feature?

Stihl says the 4-mix has a higher torque than a 2 stroke and a "pleasant sound".

I suspect the lack of oil injection has to do with complexity, cost, and weight.  A lot of people would forget to refill the oil tank when refueling multiple times per day.

Bio-degradable two stroke oil is available for any who desire to buy it.

The four stroke Stihl's do have a deeper sound.  For the higher performance tools, Stihl sticks with two strokes.  Power to weight ratio I guess.
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Offline kballowe

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2021, 03:10:23 PM »
Those battery leaf blowers are great for blow-drying a nice Harley.  Metal flake, chrome, and no water spots.

 :thumb:

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2021, 03:15:50 PM »
I have a squirrel cage blower on wheels that has a 10HP B+S engine and a 80cc Shindaiwa backpack blower. I pay a young couple some cash and all the firewood they can take to use those tools in my yard. I have forest on two sides of my property so the leaves get blown into the woods.
Larry
.

I haven't raked, blown, or bagged leaves in 30 years. Lawn has been there every year in the spring, never had any damage. Always seems to grow just fine. Most of those years I've been covered up in trees. Now I only have one.

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Offline kballowe

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2021, 03:40:20 PM »
About half a mile down the road (old 66) from me is a long, grassy bank with several trees at the top, and a single goat.  It's always a guessing game as which tree he is tied to for that day.

The landowner says that the goat keeps that bank "mowed" all summer, and then he ends up in the freezer in winter.


Offline Chethro

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2021, 03:47:27 PM »
You'll get my leaf blower when you pry it from my cold dead fingers... :copcar:
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2021, 03:54:29 PM »
FWIW, the Stihl four mix series was designed to get by the EPA mandates and was/is years ahead of it's time. They are much quieter and deeper sounding than the two strokes especially in the backpack blowers. They use considerably less fuel and burn very clean. The other big advantage is they run the same mix as all the other hand held equipment the pros use so nobody gets confused. Another advantage is if someone screws up and does run raw gas in a two stroke it's instantly turned to junk. Oddly the four mix has enough oil hidden in the engine to keep running for up to two tanks of fuel without oil or seizing.
All that being said batteries are coming on strong. They will soon replace all commercial handheld. Termendous savings in fuel and up keep. They will most likly be charged between stops by a small generator at first.
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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2021, 03:58:16 PM »
Having spent the last two days (Sunday after 10 AM) using my Stihl 2-stroke weed whacker, blower and chainsaw to do some needed maintenance (the never ending fight against blackberries) along my culdesac, I vote for keeping 2-stroke motors alive and well for a long time to come. Now if someone could make electric tools that can work as hard as my Stihl tools - I would consider buying to replace as they age out. But at this point, I think I will age out first, as I have had them fro 20+ years and ther are built to last and at 69 I may give up the fight before they do.

Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2021, 04:38:06 PM »
I don't care what the neighbors use to keep their lawns cut and trimmed as long as use something. An old neighbor would let their grass grow to about 10" before they would attempt to mow it every 4 to 6 weeks. Then they spent all day with a push mower and it looked like hammer shit just big clumps. I'd much rather put up with 5 minutes of string trimmer noise 2 times a week and have adjacent properties looking decent.

I've got several neighbors who have the same problem.  They have to cut the grass super short in order for it to look "right" according to their aesthetic beliefs, but yet it is cut so short, there is no place for the clippings to fall.  Any growth above 1/2" their preferred cutting height, and they are unhappy with how it looks.  They are constantly mowing frantically, yet never like how their lawns look!!!!

Ironically enough, they want to know why my grass is always green, while theirs is dying.  So I tell them "Raise your mower as high as it will go, and try it out.  The taller grass will shade the ground and it won't dry out in the summer sun.  Then your grass won't die!" They can't do it, cause the taller grass won't look "right" to them.

Another interesting thing I have noticed is their trees drop their leaves 3-5 weeks before my trees even though they are the same species of trees.

The Laws of Nature.  Live with their rules or not, we all have a choice!
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Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2021, 04:53:04 PM »
This thread should mellow out considerably once those of us in marijuana legal states switch over from growing Kentucky 31 grass to the more profitable blend......
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Offline drburt

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2021, 06:40:16 PM »
I find it somewhat funny that our society condones blowing my crap out of my yard so that my neighbors can blow my crap out of their yard along with their crap.
I'm not calling anybody here rude, but it does seem like a pretty rude invention.
Makes me laugh.
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Offline Cam3512

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2021, 06:52:48 PM »
Who gives a crap about leaf blowers.  Don’t ban these …

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Offline egschade

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2021, 06:56:42 PM »
My Ryobi 2-cycle string trimmer/brush cutter is quieter than my Honda mower which itself, is relatively quiet. Neither requires hearing protection.  I once apologized to the neighbor for doing the lawn later than I liked one evening and she said it's hardly a bother and much quieter than the landscapers equipment. As the equipment ages though I do intend to replace it with battery tools.

The gas back blower is a whole other kind of loud and w/o earmuffs would deafen you quickly. Maybe it's the blower fan and housing rather than the engine?

We all get along pretty well when it comes to noise. Only problem I've had is when I caught the back yard neighbor's landscaper dumping leaves over the fence into my yard. Talked to the guy nicely and it hasn't happened again.
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Offline egschade

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Re: 2 Stroke Ban
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2021, 07:03:44 PM »
The elder Eric in NJ

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