Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kent in Upstate NY on June 22, 2019, 12:45:17 PM
-
http://my.earthlink.net/channel/news/article/us?guid=20190622/ec48b00c-d6a2-426c-9aa4-bfbd35491fdb
-
I read a news article that said the truck was in the wrong lane.
-
Photos show burning truck on the left berm: https://www.wmur.com/article/serious-crash-involving-motorcycles-pickup-shuts-down-route-2-in-randolph/28143655
-
Sad. Rest in Peace to those who did not survive. Full healing to those who did. Cherished memories for those left behind. No bad dreams for those who witnessed the carnage.
-
I read a news article that said the truck was in the wrong lane.
Please cite or give us a link to the article. Unattributed "...I read somewhere..." posts is how false rumors get started. I'm as interested as you are to know what happened, but I not via fake news.
-
^^^ Seconded. Every article I have read, so far, has said that the cause was under investigation, and no details had been released, yet.
-
Still not much info, Nothing about Driver
Here is a link
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-hampshire-motorcycle-crash-pickup-truck-several-dead-2019-06-22/
-
I've been across that section of Route 2 in New Hampshire many times during the week of Laconia , that road if I remember is I think it's 50 miles an hour and most places pretty smooth road that I can remember ,usually clear site so we'll just have to wait to see what what turns up from the investigati,on I do feel sorry for all those people that passed away I'm sure that Unfortunately they died doing what they enjoyed best , and to their families enjoy the memories, the initial ones will be painful but the best ones you'll remember forever .
TOMB
-
They released some info (updates on the link I provided). The riders were Jarheads MC, US Marine vets, and possible friends. The truck was commercially driven. More info to come.
-
Damn shame. Guess I already gave my opinion about group riding in a previous thread.
-
They released some info (updates on the link I provided). The riders were Jarheads MC, US Marine vets, and possible friends. The truck was commercially driven. More info to come.
Such a tragic event, so sad.
I'm curious to see if those "Jarheads MC, US Marine vets, and possible friends" were wearing safe and certified helmets.
Paul
-
Please cite or give us a link to the article. Unattributed "...I read somewhere..." posts is how false rumors get started. I'm as interested as you are to know what happened, but I not via fake news.
Apologies, the reason I didn't link it was I couldn't with the sad state of computer system when I'm out in the shop. I had read it up at the house and felt compelled to repeat what I read, thinking one of my esteemed colleagues would have that link. Ill hopefull find it later :tongue:
-
Tragic, senseless. I wonder if the 23-year old truck driver drifted wide because he was distracted by his mobile phone?
-
My son had a similar accident while towing an unloaded equipment trailer with a Suburban. It was determined that the trailer toung weight was too low for the weight of the truck . He was unable to steer and wound up in a ditch. No injuries and a totaled truck. Some of the pictures from the accident in New Hampshire show a huge trailer attached to the wrecked truck.
-
A bit more info from local TV
https://www.wmur.com/article/serious-crash-involving-motorcycles-pickup-shuts-down-route-2-in-randolph/28143655
-
Such a tragic event, so sad.
I'm curious to see if those "Jarheads MC, US Marine vets, and possible friends" were wearing safe and certified helmets.
Paul
Yah, like that would have made a difference in this type of wreck. I read witnesses were applying tourniquets. Helmets are good for about 30 mph. Beyond that they don't do much. Fortunately, as long as you don't hit a wall or head on into a truck the impact velocity vector is a lot lower than 30 mph.
-
Whether they would've helped or not, I bet that every one of those riders, if they had enough time before impact to have a thought at all, wished that they were helmeted.
-
Whether they would've helped or not, I bet that every one of those riders, if they had enough time before impact to have a thought at all, wished that they were helmeted.
Do you really think you know what US Marines were thinking in that moment? Wow! OK then.
-
Do you really think you know what US Marines were thinking in that moment? Wow! OK then.
1) I think it's odd that you needed to include that they were Marines, like they have entirely unique Marine-only thoughts before death. Oh well.
2) I've been a trauma surgeon for about a dozen years. I've taken care of hundreds upon hundreds of motorcycle crash patients. Including Marines. Not surprisingly, a consistent theme among the helmeted is "boy am I glad I was wearing my helmet." Even if there's pernament disability, it's abundantly clear that helmet use helped ameliorate the damage. A common theme among the unhelemeted, if they survive, is "I'll always wear a helmet" or, more commonly, a wife with a scowl saying "he'll always wear a helmet." Or "he's selling the bike." I've yet to meet the person who said, "well, since helmets don't make much difference over 30mph and since I was riding at highway speeds, I figured wearing a helment wouldn't matter in a crash and wow-howdy was I right! Didn't make a lick of difference!" No, haven't met that guy yet. But hey, maybe you're him huh?
3) Of course, my experience is after the fact with survivors and so you're technically correct (and I can't believe that I feel like I need to say this)...I'm incapable of knowing what other people are thinking. So with this limitation in mind, I took my own professional experience and also my own riding experience and then formed a therory that makes intuitive sense.
4) I'm interested to know where your 30mph claim derives. Do you have a link? No snark, I'm always interested in learning.
Nate
-
The truck driver, although only 23, has a pretty long list of arrests.
He's lived in Ct. as well as Mass.
Not only theft/burglery, he currently has a chrge of 14-227a
ILL OPN MV UNDER INFL ALC/DRUG
and that was on 5/11/19.
Dusty might delete this, but given his history, I'm betting he is responsable.
-
Please cite or give us a link to the article. Unattributed "...I read somewhere..." posts is how false rumors get started. I'm as interested as you are to know what happened, but I not via fake news.
Nope cannot find it. I almost had it but the New York post loaded itself instead and now the history does not show it. The New York post must have some program that does what it wants on this ancient iPad . Wait until more is known is my advice, the first reports are generally inaccurate
-
Front page of CNN.com
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/06/22/us/new-hampshire-accident-motorcyclists-pickup-truck/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F
-
Well said Doc!
-
1) I think it's odd that you needed to include that they were Marines, like they have entirely unique Marine-only thoughts before death. Oh well.
2) I've been a trauma surgeon for about a dozen years. I've taken care of hundreds upon hundreds of motorcycle crash patients. Including Marines. Not surprisingly, a consistent theme among the helmeted is "boy am I glad I was wearing my helmet." Even if there's pernament disability, it's abundantly clear that helmet use helped ameliorate the damage. A common theme among the unhelemeted, if they survive, is "I'll always wear a helmet" or, more commonly, a wife with a scowl saying "he'll always wear a helmet." Or "he's selling the bike." I've yet to meet the person who said, "well, since helmets don't make much difference over 30mph and since I was riding at highway speeds, I figured wearing a helment wouldn't matter in a crash and wow-howdy was I right! Didn't make a lick of difference!" No, haven't met that guy yet. But hey, maybe you're him huh?
3) Of course, my experience is after the fact with survivors and so you're technically correct (and I can't believe that I feel like I need to say this)...I'm incapable of knowing what other people are thinking. So with this limitation in mind, I took my own professional experience and also my own riding experience and then formed a therory that makes intuitive sense.
4) I'm interested to know where your 30mph claim derives. Do you have a link? No snark, I'm always interested in learning.
Nate
Your head is 5 feet above the pavement. You are travelling at 30 mph and lowside while trying to avoid a wreck. What is the velocity of your helmet toward the pavement? You are travelling at 70 mph and lowside while trying to avoid a wreck. What is the velocity of your helmet toward the pavement? :)
-
Had this discussion a few weeks back with an emergency room RN. She says most the times a biker goes down who is wearing full gear usually just patching him up. No gear usually very severe or death.
-
All else being equal, I don't think the velocity of your head toward the pavement would be different when low siding at 30 or 70. You're still falling over 5 feet. The ground is moving by faster, but it is parallel to your primary vector. You would need more abrasion protection at the higher speed which would justify having the helmet on.
-
All else being equal, I don't think the velocity of your head toward the pavement would be different when low siding at 30 or 70. You're still falling over 5 feet. The ground is moving by faster, but it is parallel to your primary vector. You would need more abrasion protection at the higher speed which would justify having the helmet on.
Exactly. And for whatever you hit during the slide. And then there's the impact angle and how that is effected by speed and ejection status. There's a whole lotta variables and they're all more favorable with a lid on. And I get it: going 80 into a truck will result in a smear. As my grandmother used to say, "they'll clean you up with a loaf of bread." Like EMS has a chunk of rye on a pole or something for just such a situation. Anyhow, clearly a helmet won't save you in certain circumstances, agreed, but to say after 30mph it doesn't matter much? I'm not buying it.
-
I low sided at 45 MPH hitting gravel in a curve. The first thing I said to myself when my head hit the pavement was well my head was OK. But my neck took 6 weeks to heel from whiplash and luckily my bracial plexus in the shoulder was intact. My heavy leather jacket held up well. The BP is where all your nerves run through to the should and arm. At 70 MPH it my have broken my neck and or injured my BP when my shoulder hit the pavement. I went down fast and at a higher speed laws of physics increase the forces.
-
I don't belive it's been mentioned... Looks like Harley baggers? And generally ,not always, they are in a close formation often two abreast..No where to go when the shit the fan...I'm not implying the riders' were at fault, just saying...This accident really sucks ...
-
Exactly. And for whatever you hit during the slide. And then there's the impact angle and how that is effected by speed and ejection status. There's a whole lotta variables and they're all more favorable with a lid on. And I get it: going 80 into a truck will result in a smear. As my grandmother used to say, "they'll clean you up with a loaf of bread." Like EMS has a chunk of rye on a pole or something for just such a situation. Anyhow, clearly a helmet won't save you in certain circumstances, agreed, but to say after 30mph it doesn't matter much? I'm not buying it.
I'm not saying "Riding faster than 30 mph." I'm saying "Impact faster than 30 mph."
-
Horrible tragedy.
Prayers for all.
-
Please cite or give us a link to the article. Unattributed "...I read somewhere..." posts is how false rumors get started. I'm as interested as you are to know what happened, but I not via fake news.
Here's a quote from a news story in this morning's online New York Times:
The motorcyclists were riding east on Route 2 in Randolph, N.H., about 100 miles northeast of Concord, when the pickup truck, a 2016 Dodge 2500, swerved over the yellow line and “jackknifed” into the motorcyclists’ lane around 6:30 p.m., said Jerry Hamanne, the owner of the Inn at Bowman Bed and Breakfast. The inn, where several of the motorcyclists were staying, was about 1,000 yards from the scene of the crash, he said.
Take it for what it's worth.
-
I no longer own a Guzzi, but for some reason, I enjoy reading this board daily. I guess I have always been impressed with the community, the willingness to help strangers whose only bond is the enjoyment of a common motorcycle brand. It's nice to see that community at work in such divisive times. With that in mind, I can not understand how this thread grew to blame the victims based on what gear they may or may not have been wearing based upon their brand, Harley. If the driver of the Ram 2500 and 20-foot trailer had pulled out a gun, or thrown an explosive device at the riders, would we be having this discussion? Regardless if he was DUI, etc he could not control a deadly weapon and now 7 people whose common bond was service to their country and love for riding are dead. I hope regardless of circumstances the driver faces a long prison term and never is given the privilege of driving again. If earlier posts are correct and he had been convicted of DUI etc, the company who hired him and it's owner are sued and lose any wealth they might have gained from this business, and also face jail time. Justice not prayers or blame is my wish.
-
I no longer own a Guzzi, but for some reason, I enjoy reading this board daily. I guess I have always been impressed with the community, the willingness to help strangers whose only bond is the enjoyment of a common motorcycle brand. It's nice to see that community at work in such divisive times. With that in mind, I can not understand how this thread grew to blame the victims based on what gear they may or may not have been wearing based upon their brand, Harley. If the driver of the Ram 2500 and 20-foot trailer had pulled out a gun, or thrown an explosive device at the riders, would we be having this discussion? Regardless if he was DUI, etc he could not control a deadly weapon and now 7 people whose common bond was service to their country and love for riding are dead. I hope regardless of circumstances the driver faces a long prison term and never is given the privilege of driving again. If earlier posts are correct and he had been convicted of DUI etc, the company who hired him and it's owner are sued and lose any wealth they might have gained from this business, and also face jail time. Justice not prayers or blame is my wish.
(https://i.ibb.co/mTTz0tN/mbkyvjht.png) (https://ibb.co/mTTz0tN)
-
I no longer own a Guzzi, but for some reason, I enjoy reading this board daily. I guess I have always been impressed with the community, the willingness to help strangers whose only bond is the enjoyment of a common motorcycle brand. It's nice to see that community at work in such divisive times. With that in mind, I can not understand how this thread grew to blame the victims based on what gear they may or may not have been wearing based upon their brand, Harley. If the driver of the Ram 2500 and 20-foot trailer had pulled out a gun, or thrown an explosive device at the riders, would we be having this discussion? Regardless if he was DUI, etc he could not control a deadly weapon and now 7 people whose common bond was service to their country and love for riding are dead. I hope regardless of circumstances the driver faces a long prison term and never is given the privilege of driving again. If earlier posts are correct and he had been convicted of DUI etc, the company who hired him and it's owner are sued and lose any wealth they might have gained from this business, and also face jail time. Justice not prayers or blame is my wish.
Irn, I wanted to post on this and you addressed all of the same thoughts I am having. Thank You
-
I no longer own a Guzzi, but for some reason, I enjoy reading this board daily. I guess I have always been impressed with the community, the willingness to help strangers whose only bond is the enjoyment of a common motorcycle brand. It's nice to see that community at work in such divisive times. With that in mind, I can not understand how this thread grew to blame the victims based on what gear they may or may not have been wearing based upon their brand, Harley. If the driver of the Ram 2500 and 20-foot trailer had pulled out a gun, or thrown an explosive device at the riders, would we be having this discussion? Regardless if he was DUI, etc he could not control a deadly weapon and now 7 people whose common bond was service to their country and love for riding are dead. I hope regardless of circumstances the driver faces a long prison term and never is given the privilege of driving again. If earlier posts are correct and he had been convicted of DUI etc, the company who hired him and it's owner are sued and lose any wealth they might have gained from this business, and also face jail time. Justice not prayers or blame is my wish.
You want to throw the truck driver in jail despite you having no real evidence so far that I see he was at fault? No one is blaming the riders, we are discussing possibilities based on past expereinces....
-
You want to throw the truck driver in jail despite you having no real evidence so far that I see he was at fault? No one is blaming the riders, we are discussing possibilities based on past expereinces....
His rig was wrecked on the wrong side of the road, WTF happened? Swerved to avoid a deer, texting, sun in his eyes, he had a blowout? He LOST CONTROL and now 7 people are dead. No, I don't think he will be sent to jail after a trial. Motorists who kill cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians, or other motorists rarely are.
-
You want to throw the truck driver in jail despite you having no real evidence so far that I see he was at fault? No one is blaming the riders, we are discussing possibilities based on past expereinces....
His rig was wrecked on the wrong side of the road, WTF happened? Swerved to avoid a deer, texting, sun in his eyes, he had a blowout? He LOST CONTROL and now 7 people are dead. No, I don't think he will be sent to jail after a trial. Motorists who kill cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians, or other motorists rarely are.
And your proof? None...Lets be ope minded here...let me give some senarios, the bikers pull out of the inn as a group and head down the highway, one bike may be passing to get into a different position. The truck coming from the other direction suddenly sees this and hits the brakes, the trailer jackknifes as they often do when braking hard , the now out of control truck wipes out the group on bikes and continues to slide right off the road...Ever drive a truck with a trailer and face an emergency situation?
I'm not blaming anyone and until the actul proof comes in you also should hold judgement....If it comes out the truck drive caused the accident then you are correct...
I personally have been the victim of a false accusation so I know how it can turn into a lynch mob....This is my opinion of course
-
Rough edge I agree with you, mobs suck, will wait for the investigation.
-
Such a tragic event, so sad.
I'm curious to see if those "Jarheads MC, US Marine vets, and possible friends" were wearing safe and certified helmets.
Paul
Here is you answer from the Washington Post this AM
(https://i.ibb.co/M5vb4t0/NH.png)
-
Here is you answer from the Washington Post this AM
(https://i.ibb.co/M5vb4t0/NH.png)
Not sure what the WP story reveals. The pic is of another couple who may have nothing to do with the group that was clobbered.
-
It's all speculation at this point but in an early release it said that the Riders were staying at a bed-and-breakfast which is probably 500 feet I believe that's what it said down the road just a just a guess on my part would be slowing down to turn into the bed and breakfast and the truck rear-ended them certainly I wasn't there but it's just a thought
TOMB
-
TOMB according to CNN this morning;
The motorcyclists had been traveling east when they collided with a westbound 2016 Dodge 2500 pickup truck.
-
It happened near the junction of 2 and 115, close to Randolph. The driver crossed the line, over corrected and the trailer and truck cut through the riders like a scythe. It’s not speculation.
It’s a 50mph zone. There is nothing the riders could have done since it was a 90-100mph closing speed. No amount of gear saves you when there is a 100mph impact with solid steel and you’re on a 700lb motorcycle . The energy involved makes the talk in this thread about helmets irrelevant. The bickering about fault and such is disrespectful.
I ride Route 2 almost every weekend. It was a terrible accident and could have happened to any of us. ANY...of us.
-
Yep, you'd be just as croaked in a small car
-
Let's go easy on the judgement fellas , this was a horrible event , no one is saying any different .
Dusty
-
Yeah, you don't want to cross the line into be disrespectful. And, I rather doubt that there is anyone on this forum who doesn't feel sorrow for the riders and their families.
It's human nature though, and particularly motorcycle rider nature, to ask, 'would I have been one of the fatalities, or is there something I regularly do or could do to avoid it'. So, it's not about "laying blame", it's about not personally making the same mistake.
If I was riding alone...yup, he could've gotten me. Although, I may have had more options riding alone, as I wouldn't be hemmed in by other bikes. But, yeah, he could've taken me out.
But taking out ten bikes and seven lives, that's directly attributable to riding in a group.
The list of things I do for safety include what I wear, where I'll ride, the usual defensive procedures, and never riding in a group. String out the same as you would if you were a group of total strangers in cars. With no tailgating.
-
At our Colorado NARs, and I imagine most Guzzi "group" rides, we string out typically with at least 100 feet between us. Riding in formation, side-by or closely staggered, invites mass entanglement at best.
A couple of years ago I saw a group of (brand name here) stop for a light in Boulder. Left front guy lost his footing. He and wife tumbled into couple at right front. Happily, only chrome was bruised.
-
It happened near the junction of 2 and 115, close to Randolph. The driver crossed the line, over corrected and the trailer and truck cut through the riders like a scythe. It’s not speculation.
It’s a 50mph zone. There is nothing the riders could have done since it was a 90-100mph closing speed. No amount of gear saves you when there is a 100mph impact with solid steel and you’re on a 700lb motorcycle . The energy involved makes the talk in this thread about helmets irrelevant. The bickering about fault and such is disrespectful.
I ride Route 2 almost every weekend. It was a terrible accident and could have happened to any of us. ANY...of us.
:thumb:
-
A 23 y/o convicted criminal, who just over a month ago was arrested for DUI drugs/alcohol
or Marine Vets on a charity ride with their spouses
The criminal cannot be found or reached by his employer (lawyering up?)
Who is more likely to be at fault? :rolleyes:
-
Yeah, you don't want to cross the line into be disrespectful. And, I rather doubt that there is anyone on this forum who doesn't feel sorrow for the riders and their families.
It's human nature though, and particularly motorcycle rider nature, to ask, 'would I have been one of the fatalities, or is there something I regularly do or could do to avoid it'. So, it's not about "laying blame", it's about not personally making the same mistake.
I was thinking about exactly that today.
Speaking only for myself, I know that it's difficult to accept that sometimes things just happen. Events can be unavoidable and senseless and random. When I encounter something terrible, I try to make sense of it, to mitigate the awfulness by attributing the outcome to choices, not randomness. I want to know if the riders' helmet status because not wearing one, while not assigning blame, is a choice. Just like texting or following too closely or not taking a defensive rider course or having a cocktail. And I *like* to think that if I make good choices that I'll be ok. I know it's not true, but it helps. Again, no blame here.
-
I am sympathetic but this is one of many reasons why group rides should be avoided.
JB
-
I am sympathetic but this is one of many reasons why group rides should be avoided.
JB
Absolutely. it is rare to find riders that have been trained in group riding with the discipline to do it correctly
not saying they did anything incorrectly just saying group riding can be fun if done with precision
-
Yep, you'd be just as croaked in a small car
You would be just as crooked in a truck more then likely.
-
Let's all wait until the facts are known. Then Lynch the truck driver.
-
Posted this elsewhere but will again here.
2005 heading north in inside lane of 4 lane divided hwy wearing proper gear & a Schuberth helmet between 60-65mph (posted 65mph)having slowed slightly thru an intersection. A kid turned left into the middle of my K75 in the middle of the intersection. Woke up laying in the outside lane with a crowd around me & the ambulance there. Ga Hwy Report measured my impact 55 feet from where I was hit. ( Half the distance of the Wright Bros 1st flight. LOL)
Left front chinbar of the Schuberth ground flat, face shield scraped & gouged, LARGE saucer size chunk out of the left rear & a cup size chunk out of the right rear. The chinbar stayed latched.
I was treated & released in 2 hrs later with 4 stitches in lower left leg & a concussion. I was on crutches for 2 weeks & sore for many weeks.
Aftermath: bought an FJR 1 week after the accident. Shop delivered it but I couldn't get a leg over it for 5 weeks. Sat in the garage w/ a coke snack & micro cloth.
Schberth requested the helmet to analyze & gave me 50% off a replacement.
FWIW
-
I am speculating just like the rest of you. It seems as if the riders had just left their b&b a short distance. Even for those of us who ride together but spread out my guess might have still been grouped up if it was only a few hundred yards from our departure point. Could have been any of us.May God look over all of them.
-
Horrible and likely avoidable accident (most are). Very sorry to hear this. I share everyone's heartfelt condolences. There was a similar accident on a remote two-lane highway in Nebraska about eight years ago. Four motorcyclists lost their lives.
Admittedly disrespectful, distasteful, and inappropriate, the cynic in me asks, "were their pipes not loud enough?"
-
boy some of you people are really letting the asshole out
-
Posted this elsewhere but will again here.
2005 heading north in inside lane of 4 lane divided hwy wearing proper gear & a Schuberth helmet between 60-65mph (posted 65mph)having slowed slightly thru an intersection. A kid turned left into the middle of my K75 in the middle of the intersection. Woke up laying in the outside lane with a crowd around me & the ambulance there. Ga Hwy Report measured my impact 55 feet from where I was hit. ( Half the distance of the Wright Bros 1st flight. LOL)
Left front chinbar of the Schuberth ground flat, face shield scraped & gouged, LARGE saucer size chunk out of the left rear & a cup size chunk out of the right rear. The chinbar stayed latched.
I was treated & released in 2 hrs later with 4 stitches in lower left leg & a concussion. I was on crutches for 2 weeks & sore for many weeks.
Aftermath: bought an FJR 1 week after the accident. Shop delivered it but I couldn't get a leg over it for 5 weeks. Sat in the garage w/ a coke snack & micro cloth.
Schberth requested the helmet to analyze & gave me 50% off a replacement.
FWIW
WOW dead man walking......your helmet story is one for the books and sure kept you intact. Interesting they wanted it for research.
-
Chill fellas .
Dusty
-
I have looked at a few newspaper reports regarding this accident and the comments sections have focused more on the helmet issue and the general attitude of the dangers of riding. The fact that the trailer bowled these people over was hardly mentioned and if a row of cars with 20 inhabitants were traveling in the same place as the motorcyclists, there certainly would have been numerous deaths. And of course some ER doctor posts the typical donor cycle comment as if it was a positive for the supply of organs.
And we wonder why accidents involving motorcyclists hardly ever deliver long term penalties for the cause of the accidents.
-
Prayers to all affected by this horrific tragedy...
-
I have looked at a few newspaper reports regarding this accident and the comments sections have focused more on the helmet issue and the general attitude of the dangers of riding. The fact that the trailer bowled these people over was hardly mentioned and if a row of cars with 20 inhabitants were traveling in the same place as the motorcyclists, there certainly would have been numerous deaths. And of course some ER doctor posts the typical donor cycle comment as if it was a positive for the supply of organs.
And we wonder why accidents involving motorcyclists hardly ever deliver long term penalties for the cause of the accidents.
Couldn't agree more. I also seen the truck driver seems to be in the wind. Hope they are keeping an eye on international flights.
By the looks of the damage to the bikes, as well as the truck, helmets wouldn't have made a difference.
If they pulled his driver's license after his 5/11/19 DUI drugs/alcohol arrest, maybe this wouldn't have happened.
Am I biased? You bet, I'll side with the military, cops, and firemen or anyone else who puts their life on the line.
-
I firmly believe in "innocent until proven guilty" but folks... it's looking more and more like the riders were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. They happened to be where and when the guy driving the truck and trailer lost control. That pretty much just sucks.
We lash out in frustration, indignation, anger, and pain. When we see something like this, we all contemplate our own mortality. This is normal, and even healthy, but getting angry with each other will be counterproductive.
No, we need to stand in solidarity with those who just lost friends and family. We need to thank the God of our choice that we're still here. We need to ask for strength for those who survived, and for those who had to clean up this mess. The initial event is over, but for those involved, that was just the kickoff to a marathon of pain they have to endure.
So please, take it easy on each other here. This world is miserable enough without adding to it.
And if you can, say or do something nice for a local veteran, police officer, fireman, ambulance driver, EMT, etc...
Just because.
-
I won't say I told you so, but you can say it.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/pickup-truck-driver-arrested-following-new-hampshire-highway-collision-that-left-7-motorcyclists-dead
Pickup truck driver arrested following New Hampshire highway collision that left 7 motorcyclists dead
-
I firmly believe in "innocent until proven guilty" but folks... it's looking more and more like the riders were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. They happened to be where and when the guy driving the truck and trailer lost control. That pretty much just sucks.
We lash out in frustration, indignation, anger, and pain. When we see something like this, we all contemplate our own mortality. This is normal, and even healthy, but getting angry with each other will be counterproductive.
No, we need to stand in solidarity with those who just lost friends and family. We need to thank the God of our choice that we're still here. We need to ask for strength for those who survived, and for those who had to clean up this mess. The initial event is over, but for those involved, that was just the kickoff to a marathon of pain they have to endure.
So please, take it easy on each other here. This world is miserable enough without adding to it.
And if you can, say or do something nice for a local veteran, police officer, fireman, ambulance driver, EMT, etc...
Just because.
Worth repeating .
Heck , just do something nice for anyone , you'll feel better , and they will also .
-
I firmly believe in "innocent until proven guilty" but folks... it's looking more and more like the riders were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. They happened to be where and when the guy driving the truck and trailer lost control. That pretty much just sucks.
No need in being hard on anyone. But also no need to pretend that this was just an unfortunate sort of thing in being in the "wrong place at the wrong time".
I could be "in the wrong place at the wrong time" when someone decides he needs drug money and shoots me in the head to take my wallet. A woman could be "in the wrong place at the wrong time" when someone decides that she needs raping.
We don't take seriously enough the responsibility that someone takes on when they take control of a 7000 pound kinetic energy weapon, and then decides to type on the phone or drink or do drugs while he's doing it (or whatever the investigation decides). It's not just "an accident", which is why the guy is being charged with "negligent homicide", same as if I closed my eyes in a stadium and started randomly shooting a pistol.
We don't want this sort of thing to become any more "normal" than it is now, which is why we act in a way (in addition to grieving for the dead) that will tend to make it less likely in future, for the sake of everyone.
Lannis
-
Lannis, as most always, well put.
-
I'm sure when I posted this waay back at the beginning of this thread, y'all said BS, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
But now it comes out.
This young guy has a criminal history for theft/burglary as well. He doesn't care about what's right or wrong, life is all about him.
And what kind of company would hire someone to drive, especially a big truck, with that on their record.
I used to do background checks for the AC division of the PD. Things like this are not hard to find.
I hope the company is sued as well.
*** The Latest: Biker crash suspect had past drunk driving count ***
https://news.yahoo.com/latest-biker-crash-suspect-had-174351266.html
and then there's this....
Zhukovskyy could also face drug charges in Massachusetts. During his arrest Monday, state troopers “located in the defendant’s residence wax packets containing a residue suspected of being heroin,” said David Procopio, a State Police spokesman, via e-mail.
-
I won't say I told you so, but you can say it.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/pickup-truck-driver-arrested-following-new-hampshire-highway-collision-that-left-7-motorcyclists-dead
Pickup truck driver arrested following New Hampshire highway collision that left 7 motorcyclists dead
*** The Latest: Biker crash suspect had past drunk driving count ***
https://news.yahoo.com/latest-biker-crash-suspect-had-174351266.html
Now that I've read the info on a "real" news source, I'll believe it :smiley:
-
Lannis, the "wrong place at the wrong time" reference is a thinly veiled way of stating that while the riders may not have done everything perfect, I find it highly doubtful they will be found guilty of anything beyond being on that portion of that road at that time... and yes, that is exactly how I see my own wreck, now almost four years later. I did everything right... and nearly died anyway. I was just luckier than these people, no more, no less. The point being any of us can be going along, doing everything right, and someone else, outside our control, can really screw up our plans. We don't get to know about these things beforehand, and afterwards, well, it's too late...
-
Lannis, the "wrong place at the wrong time" reference is a thinly veiled way of stating that while the riders may not have done everything perfect, I find it highly doubtful they will be found guilty of anything beyond being on that portion of that road at that time... and yes, that is exactly how I see my own wreck, now almost four years later. I did everything right... and nearly died anyway. I was just luckier than these people, no more, no less. The point being any of us can be going along, doing everything right, and someone else, outside our control, can really screw up our plans. We don't get to know about these things beforehand, and afterwards, well, it's too late...
You are right Rick, sometimes the phrase “Life is just a vapor, here one moment and gone the next” some of us here knows where that came from.
-
You are right Rick, sometimes the phrase “Life is just a vapor, here one moment and gone the next” some of us here knows where that came from.
If you're referring to a man by the name of James.... yes sir, I know that book well. A very practical man he was.
-
Lannis, the "wrong place at the wrong time" reference is a thinly veiled way of stating that while the riders may not have done everything perfect, I find it highly doubtful they will be found guilty of anything beyond being on that portion of that road at that time... and yes, that is exactly how I see my own wreck, now almost four years later. I did everything right... and nearly died anyway. I was just luckier than these people, no more, no less. The point being any of us can be going along, doing everything right, and someone else, outside our control, can really screw up our plans. We don't get to know about these things beforehand, and afterwards, well, it's too late...
Yes, I agree with that. My response was really addressed to the truck driver. It wasn't like the riders did anything wrong, but the truck driver was not like a meteorite coming out of the sky or a tree falling on the riders, or a deer leaping onto the riders from the bank next to the road ... he was (it seems) almost a career criminal that should not have been on the road, and whose decisions directly caused the deaths of 7 innocent people .... All of us who ride bikes expose ourselves to that type of person every day ....
Lannis
-
When things go bad, they can go real bad real fast. We usually have one chance to do it right and if we can get through without hitting or being hit by anything , we can walk away if we're very lucky.
-
What a messy scene! I can understand everyone getting upset about it.
I tend to look at it this way: I am the cause of my survival. Freak accidents can happen like a lightning bolt out of the blue striking me dead, but generally, I've found it possible to be in command of my survival and future. We have a lot more control over what happens to us than most would have you believe. One thing that most people haven't a clue about is the importance of their connections. If someone close has hidden intentions against you, mistakes and accidents will happen. It doesn't seem logical this would be the case - if the 'friend' isn't actively physically harming you right now, how could they have caused it? But it does work that way. Having real supportive friends and not those who appear to be friends (while tearing you down) is important.
Secondly, any kind of drugs, even aspirin, shuts down the sixth sense - a spiritual awareness. A sort of 'knowing' that tells you to hold back for some reason, before the truck careens across your lane. Or you slow down for no reason and there's gravel in the next turn. It's a 'feeling' you get, premonitions, that sort of thing. I've worked on cultivating that awareness my whole life, and frankly, I think riding motorcycles, or even life, would be kind of scary without it.
If I was hit by an out-of-control truck and trailer and killed, I'd know I messed up. Doesn't matter that I was in the right - because I'd be dead wrong. My job is to survive, so dying would be a failure on my part. It doesn't matter that something exterior to me took me out, it was my responsibility to survive.
Have any of you read any of David Hough's books? He talks about most accidents being avoidable. There is usually a warning or signs something isn't right. It's knowing there could be a situation and watching for the earliest sign that evasive action might be needed. It requires constant alertness and the ability to act immediately.
It seems there must have been some sign the truck was out of control. Or did it happen so quickly there was absolutely no chance of evasion?
And yes, it is scary with crazies on the road with us. Many years ago I was told that something like 80% of the drivers were on some sort of meds, and now we've got phones and texting, both crazy distractions. I must be the effect of a Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times!".
-
One theory I've read, without substantiation, is that the riders were passing each other over the double-yellow and when the truck came upon them, the driver slammed on his brakes to avoid them, causing the truck to careen out of control, wiping them out. Pure speculation, but I suppose it's plausible.
-
First, condolences to the family/friends of those killed and well wishes for the injured and survivors. Mental as well as physical healing.
As a fellow rider, I know we all strive to be better and safer riders while doing something that inherently dangerous and exhilarating at the same time. Life is to be lived to the fullest, not just endured. That said it occurs to me that when riding with someone, I have to concentrate on looking down the road past the bikes ahead for potential dangers, just like when riding alone or leading. Like has been said earlier, try to recognize the potential threats as early as possible to increase your chances of survival.
Also I have been down at high speed twice in the last 5 years due to deer encounters. Both times my helmet and gear took some serious abuse and there is a good chance I would not have survived either without that protection.
-
...I tend to look at it this way: I am the cause of my survival....If I was hit by an out-of-control truck and trailer and killed, I'd know I messed up....dying would be a failure on my part....It seems there must have been some sign the truck was out of control...yes, it is scary with crazies on the road with us....
I sure agree with the last part.
-
My son is starting to ride on the street. I've tried to pass on what safe riding practices I've learned over the years. The one thing I told him" it doesn't mater who's fault it is,you lose"
-
Any form of profiling is totally unacceptable, unnecessary and counterproductive.
-
What a messy scene! I can understand everyone getting upset about it.
I tend to look at it this way: I am the cause of my survival. Freak accidents can happen like a lightning bolt out of the blue striking me dead, but generally, I've found it possible to be in command of my survival and future. We have a lot more control over what happens to us than most would have you believe. One thing that most people haven't a clue about is the importance of their connections. If someone close has hidden intentions against you, mistakes and accidents will happen. It doesn't seem logical this would be the case - if the 'friend' isn't actively physically harming you right now, how could they have caused it? But it does work that way. Having real supportive friends and not those who appear to be friends (while tearing you down) is important.
Secondly, any kind of drugs, even aspirin, shuts down the sixth sense - a spiritual awareness. A sort of 'knowing' that tells you to hold back for some reason, before the truck careens across your lane. Or you slow down for no reason and there's gravel in the next turn. It's a 'feeling' you get, premonitions, that sort of thing. I've worked on cultivating that awareness my whole life, and frankly, I think riding motorcycles, or even life, would be kind of scary without it.
If I was hit by an out-of-control truck and trailer and killed, I'd know I messed up. Doesn't matter that I was in the right - because I'd be dead wrong. My job is to survive, so dying would be a failure on my part. It doesn't matter that something exterior to me took me out, it was my responsibility to survive.
Have any of you read any of David Hough's books? He talks about most accidents being avoidable. There is usually a warning or signs something isn't right. It's knowing there could be a situation and watching for the earliest sign that evasive action might be needed. It requires constant alertness and the ability to act immediately.
It seems there must have been some sign the truck was out of control. Or did it happen so quickly there was absolutely no chance of evasion?
And yes, it is scary with crazies on the road with us. Many years ago I was told that something like 80% of the drivers were on some sort of meds, and now we've got phones and texting, both crazy distractions. I must be the effect of a Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times!".
I honestly don't understand why some of you think you're Spider-man or ninjas. The closing speed on the road is 100mph. It's a 50mph zone. The driver over-corrected, the truck and trailer jackknifed going 50mph and plowed directly through the group of riders. It all happened in an instant. The combined speed of the vehicles meant they were travelling towards each other at 150 feet per second. It was a 20' long truck towing a 20' long trailer. No one could have swerved to avoid it regardless of their ninja reflexes or spidey sense. It covered two lanes and went right up a bank on the opposite side of the road. All of us would be equally dead as these poor riders.
To reiterate from my previous posts:
-You're not a ninja with Spider-man's sixth sense. No one is. It's not a Marvel comic book. It's real life.
-In this case, it wouldn't have mattered if it was a single rider or a group of 80, you'd be just as dead either way because the truck was too wide for a rider to swerve to avoid.
-The closing speed was 100mph.
-The vehicles were closing at 150 feet per second. An average reaction time is .5 seconds. We're all old, decrepit Moto Guzzi riders. We don't react in .5 seconds. Even if we did, there's still nothing we could have done.
Not all accidents are avoidable. Two months ago an idiot in a Prius was texting and drove directly under the rear axle of one of our 20' box trucks. Same kind of scenario. 50mph zone, driver wasn't paying attention and he just drove right under the truck. There was nothing my driver could have done.
-
Wait , are you sure I'm not Spiderman , kinda looked like him before gravity took over :laugh:
Maybe we can stop attacking each other , this thread has been problematic for a couple of pages now , let's turn it down . Are we clear ?
Dusty
-
I am sympathetic but this is one of many reasons why group rides should be avoided.
JB
Agreed, it can at time, lead to mob mentality.
Paul
-
I honestly don't understand why some of you think you're Spider-man or ninjas. The closing speed on the road is 100mph. It's a 50mph zone. The driver over-corrected, the truck and trailer jackknifed going 50mph and plowed directly through the group of riders. It all happened in an instant. The combined speed of the vehicles meant they were travelling towards each other at 150 feet per second. It was a 20' long truck towing a 20' long trailer. No one could have swerved to avoid it regardless of their ninja reflexes or spidey sense. It covered two lanes and went right up a bank on the opposite side of the road. All of us would be equally dead as these poor riders.
To reiterate from my previous posts:
-You're not a ninja with Spider-man's sixth sense. No one is. It's not a Marvel comic book. It's real life.
-In this case, it wouldn't have mattered if it was a single rider or a group of 80, you'd be just as dead either way because the truck was too wide for a rider to swerve to avoid.
-The closing speed was 100mph.
-The vehicles were closing at 150 feet per second. An average reaction time is .5 seconds. We're all old, decrepit Moto Guzzi riders. We don't react in .5 seconds. Even if we did, there's still nothing we could have done.
Not all accidents are avoidable. Two months ago an idiot in a Prius was texting and drove directly under the rear axle of one of our 20' box trucks. Same kind of scenario. 50mph zone, driver wasn't paying attention and he just drove right under the truck. There was nothing my driver could have done.
Thank you for posting your common sense. Even at slower speeds, and by the looks of it, it was NOT, a flick of the trucks wheel leaves a split second to react.
In other words, impossable.
Another point these marine vet. heros were on a charity ride with their wives.
Can you imagine if your wife was in your passenger seat, and you started riding irresponsably?
She's rip your ear off!
What is a kid with two DUI arrests behind the wheel of a commercial vehicle?
They found heroin in this kids house, hope they did bloodwork on him at the hospital.
-
"Fate is the Hunter"
:-(
-
"Fate is the Hunter"
:-(
Although in the book, the "Hunter" generally came in the form of unexpected weather, or an inability of the Douglas airliner designers to account for every one of millions of variables in keeping the control surfaces secure; although the book's opening, where an "outlaw" aircraft who had not filed a flight plan almost ended the story right there, was a case sort of like this one.
We're "tempting" fate in these situations where we allow (not to say encourage) dangerous drivers to be on the road, people who can kill dozens of others and who may be motivated to risk other people's lives to make money dishonestly. We seem to be thinking of "unavoidable" to be the part when the truck is 10 feet from the bikes - making it "avoidable" should have started months or years ago.
But we won't. You watch; nothing will change.
Lannis
-
Dusty's asking us to "turn it down" and it's his bat and ball, but this hits home for all those that ride.
Harley riders, and most riders in general are looked down on by so many.
I'm younger than the mountains, but older than most trees.
I've never had a problem with any make riders, often shared coffee, or asked, have been asked if everything was OK.
These guys were not doing anything shown to be stupid, Vets on a charity ride with their wives.
The criminal kid, with two previous arrests for DUI, among other things should never have been behind the wheel of a commercial vehicle,
or anything else.
The fact that he refused a field test, and disappeard for a couple days, and was found to have heroin in the home says it all.
Too often, a bike rider is blamed, or the MV driver gets minimum penalty.
Maybe this will help change peoples outlook.
-
Dusty's asking us to "turn it down" ....
Although warnings are implied and never specific, I suspect that was because of someone commenting on the ethnicity of the truck driver, and guys commenting on the WG poster rather than the subject at hand. Discussion of the subject without referring to funny names or the unknown parentage of another poster probably isn't an issue.
Lannis
-
Although warnings are implied and never specific, I suspect that was because of someone commenting on the ethnicity of the truck driver, and guys commenting on the WG poster rather than the subject at hand. Discussion of the subject without referring to funny names or the unknown parentage of another poster probably isn't an issue.
Lannis
Correct , and maybe not attack each other . This a a tragedy , and is like any other horrific event , it's just that this one hits close to home and stirs up a lot of negative emotion . All I am asking is to please refrain from personal attacks .
Thanks Lannis .
Dusty
-
maybe Dusty is trying to keep this thread going, there are important lessons we can learn from this tragic event.
-
Not much new info here...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/driver-pleads-not-guilty-motorcycle-crash-killed-7-n1021521
-
I think most newer vehicles have GPS tracking in them, and that data has been used in court before. Curious if that will be accessed since so little data on the wreck is known.
-
If one rider and his passenger would have been taken out by this person who shouldn't have been driving in the first place, this would have been a blip on the news radar and gone. The fact that it was a group of veterans is what is keeping this in the news and why other groups are stepping up to help the families of the victims.
So logically getting killed while on a group ride does more good for the survivors and provides a greater chance of justice served as well as influencing changes to laws.
-
Hi all,
Here is the link to club the riders belonged to, quite tragic all around especially considering they were headed to a charity event:
https://www.jarheads-mc.com/ (https://www.jarheads-mc.com/)
Lee
-
I apologize if I’m the reason Dusty said to cool it. I ride that road dozens of times a year and am very familiar with the exact spot it happened. One of those killed was a friend of a friend. I understand the questions and theorizing but at a certain point...when posters who don’t know the area or the limited sight lines or the size and speed of the vehicles involved or basic physics ....I guess I got grumpy. Again, I apologize.
-
I think we all understood John , it's all OK .
Dusty
-
I have held off commenting on this subject because I realize motorcycle deaths hits home for all of us. During my LEO career I was called in to investigate several fatalities which included a few motorcycle involvements, however, thank God, nothing of this magnitude. Let me say that at some point we won’t have to speculate as to what occurred that caused this awful event. Traffic investigation forensics is truly a scientific and proven method of understanding exactly what took place that day. I feel sure that whoever caused this will be held accountable. If it’s determined that the drivers actions were not negligent or grossly irresponsible there my not be serious charges. At this point I chose to trust the investigating specialists and wait for the report and pray for the injured and the families of the deceased.
-
Hi all,
Here is the link to club the riders belonged to, quite tragic all around especially considering they were headed to a charity event:
https://www.jarheads-mc.com/ (https://www.jarheads-mc.com/)
Lee
Thank you very much for posting that link,,, it's comforting to know that my heart is aching for good people, nuff said.
Don't know, wasn't there,,, but after 30 yrs of police work, I can only imagine the chaos and challenges at the accident scene.
Glad to see the follow up arrest bear fruit, hope the case develops well and falls into place for the investigators.
My thoughts go out to anyone that's been touched by this tragedy.
Ride safe and often
Kelly
-
CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — The head of the Massachusetts motor vehicle division has resigned after her agency failed to terminate the commercial driving license of a man whose collision with a group of motorcyclists on a rural New Hampshire road left seven bikers dead.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/driver-pleads-not-guilty-motorcycle-155814811.html
-
Interesting. In Oz, although licensing is a state issue if you get suspended for any reason, in any state, the ban is nationwide and there is a direct interconnection between all police databases which is constantly updated, one assumes, automatically as soon as the information of the suspension is entered in the system, (In NSW it's in minutes. Here though they've just introduced on the spot suspension for DUI. You blow the bag and go over they take your license for three months there and then and it can all be sorted out in court.). With number plate recognition, as long as the vehicle is registered to the driver, you 100% will get nicked if you are stupid enough to try driving while disqualified!
This nit-wit and serial pest should of had his licence torn up years ago!
Pete
-
This entire incident is beyond horrible.
We worry about plastic straws more in this country than we do road training and safety for drivers and all road users. That's beyond pathetic.
-
I guess this means they haven't lynched him yet as he deserved.
-
CONCORD, N.H. (AP) — The head of the Massachusetts motor vehicle division has resigned after her agency failed to terminate the commercial driving license of a man whose collision with a group of motorcyclists on a rural New Hampshire road left seven bikers dead.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/driver-pleads-not-guilty-motorcycle-155814811.html
Yea her 148K job! However you can bet she will receive I hefty golden parachute🤮
-
I was run off the road by some idiot when he was passing a big side dump dirt truck. I took evasive action and went to the shoulder and at the last moment he deliberately swerved at me and I took the ditch knowing that if I made contact with him or a culvert in the ditch it would be real bad. I tried to ride it out but the bike couldn't handle the rough terrain of the ditch and went end over end. I broke my helmet . They caught the guy who was about 20 years old and lived a half mile away. We had him with witnesses but the prosecutor was very weak. He cried and they declared a mistrial. Long story short I felt he should have done prison time for that last swerve towards me. Of course he had no insurance so since he ran from the scene I was able to have some restitution that the state paid and then collected from him. It was a paltry sum but it was all I could get. The lesson there is that if you are on a motorcycle and get nailed all the idiot has to do is claim stupidity or say he didn't see you and I'd be surprised if he'd have any consequences
-
This entire incident is beyond horrible.
We worry about plastic straws more in this country than we do road training and safety for drivers and all road users. That's beyond pathetic.
+1