Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ncdan on April 18, 2021, 07:34:49 AM

Title: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 18, 2021, 07:34:49 AM
I was talking to one of my forum Pals last night and after our conversation ended a question became apparent to me, what is the future of the moto Guzzi brand of motorcycle.
They no longer produce the newest line, 1400s, which was their future for touring  and cruiser bikes at the time of introduction. They no longer offer the ole work horse 1100 series, which was used in most all of the versions of riding needs and desires of Guzzi riders, so whatís left?
Personally for the kind of bikes I prefer being cruiser/ tourers, the future looks kind of bleak:(.
What say my fellow Guzzi enthusiast?

Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Dirk_S on April 18, 2021, 07:46:49 AM
Who knows what they have planned?

If the supposedly new bike being introduced is just another detuned 850 cc engine, Iíll be a bit more pessimistic about their future, but something tells me that Piaggio is on top of their plans.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 18, 2021, 07:49:50 AM


                                                                         Moto Guzzi
                                                                     Established 1921
                                                          Going out of business since 1922


 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Dimitri_Harkov on April 18, 2021, 07:53:37 AM
I'm not worried yet.

The V7 & V85 make the money and made it to Euro5.
The new bike will be a more-or-less-Griso, and that was (and is) a very popular bike too.

Clever business decissions, I'd say.

Cheers,
D.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: tommy2cyl on April 18, 2021, 07:54:23 AM
The heart wants what the heart wants.  My choice of bikes are adventure/do everything "Swiss Army Knife" class of motorcycles.  I put my name on the list to buy a V 85 when I became aware that this bike was coming.  I am coming on 2 years of ownership and extremely pleased with my choice.  I would think that with the "new" 850 motor that a sport touring machine would be a strong possibility for people who like to tour but don't like Adventure style bikes.  Probably long life ahead with the V7 bikes and upgraded motors.  I am not a cruiser guy, so can't really speak to that.  From my perspective, with the world wide success of the V 85, I think the future looks better for Moto Guzzi than it has in quite some time.  YMMV.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 18, 2021, 08:00:55 AM
The heart wants what the heart wants.  My choice of bikes are adventure/do everything "Swiss Army Knife" class of motorcycles.  I put my name on the list to buy a V 85 when I became aware that this bike was coming.  I am coming on 2 years of ownership and extremely pleased with my choice.  I would think that with the "new" 850 motor that a sport touring machine would be a strong possibility for people who like to tour but don't like Adventure style bikes.  Probably long life ahead with the V7 bikes and upgraded motors.  I am not a cruiser guy, so can't really speak to that.  From my perspective, with the world wide success of the V 85, I think the future looks better for Moto Guzzi than it has in quite some time.  YMMV.
But does totally dropping the bigger blocks make sense?
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: kballowe on April 18, 2021, 08:07:54 AM
I don't know, but I would hope that they stick around for a little while longer because I just bought a brand new one.

 :bike-037:
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Perazzimx14 on April 18, 2021, 08:13:35 AM
I'm betting in the next few years MG will pump billions of dollars into creating a reliable worldwide dealer network plus working creating new motorcycles that are old but new and with lots of new tech but no tech. Piaggio will support warranty claims, back dealers and become #1 worldwide in customer service. MG will in the coming years will expand at a rate faster than the universe did during the big bang outpacing all other manufacturers combined.




























Or they will go tits up. 
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: tommy2cyl on April 18, 2021, 08:14:03 AM
I am not a big block guy.  My bikes of choice have been in the 500 - 1000 cc range.  I am not really qualified to say.  I have always been "intrigued" by people who ride 700 lb and up motorcycles.  I feel you can tour very well on a 500 lb./80 hp motorcycle.  I don't know if the future of motorcycles in general is for bikes over 1000 cc.  Like I said, not really qualified to comment.  Do you feel there is enough of a demand for this type/size of bike?
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: elrealistico on April 18, 2021, 08:19:04 AM
Will the September reveal be an electric  or a new water cooled 1000cc+? Or are they both in the works, with one coming out before the other?
I am thinking electric, as from what I know the bigger engine bikes didn't sell all that well the last couple years even in the US, the main market for them.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: sdcr on April 18, 2021, 08:22:12 AM
Iíve had Guzzis since the early 80ís. Moto Guzzi has always had Dealer network issues. There will always be the select few good shops, and many come and go shops. Been that way for a long time. At one time, Spare Parts in Philly was a fairly good shop to buy parts, get service and even see new bikes. They are still around, just not a Guzzi Dealer.

Anecdotally , I think the current V7 series has been a sales success for Piagio, so I expect that they will bank on that, and keep small blocks as their bread and butter.

Personally, it would be a very positive step, to establish a real dealer network, like another German brand has, but I wouldnít hold my breath.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Luap McKeever on April 18, 2021, 08:25:40 AM
Piaggio is part of the Immsi group. Looking at these numbers from the last 5 years, anyone with any type of business experience can predict what's going to happen within the next 4-5.


(https://i.ibb.co/d0hkR6B/pia.png) (https://ibb.co/d0hkR6B)


(https://i.ibb.co/6bnr9vx/pia2.png) (https://ibb.co/6bnr9vx)
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 18, 2021, 08:28:42 AM
Piaggio is part of the Immsi group. Looking at these numbers from the last 5 years, anyone with any type of business experience can predict what's going to happen within the next 4-5.


(https://i.ibb.co/d0hkR6B/pia.png) (https://ibb.co/d0hkR6B)


 Up and down ?

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Luap McKeever on April 18, 2021, 08:36:15 AM
Up and down ?

 Dusty

If my business had these number percentages, I'd expect no change. No new product lines. No new services. I'd more than likely just be offering "the same old same"...

So, either they keep doing what they're doing now at the same pace or they completely fold. I see no room here for new product development, R&D, expansions, marketing, etc, without going into major loan debt.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 18, 2021, 08:37:40 AM
I am not a big block guy.  My bikes of choice have been in the 500 - 1000 cc range.  I am not really qualified to say.  I have always been "intrigued" by people who ride 700 lb and up motorcycles.  I feel you can tour very well on a 500 lb./80 hp motorcycle.  I don't know if the future of motorcycles in general is for bikes over 1000 cc.  Like I said, not really qualified to comment.  Do you feel there is enough of a demand for this type/size of bike?
I do Tommy. Iíve toured on the heavier touring bikes as well as the lighter bikes you prefer. Hands down, there is no comparison between a 1400+ CC , 850 lb bike loaded with 400+ pounds of flesh and luggage to the smaller bikes  for 500+ mile days of cross country touring. Yes you can tour the country on a 500 and less cc and pound bike but to say they are equal is questionable at best.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Murray on April 18, 2021, 08:38:00 AM
I'm betting in the next few years MG will pump billions of dollars into creating a reliable worldwide dealer network plus working creating new motorcycles that are old but new and with lots of new tech but no tech. Piaggio will support warranty claims, back dealers and become #1 worldwide in customer service. MG will in the coming years will expand at a rate faster than the universe did during the big bang outpacing all other manufacturers combined.


Here's a slightly different take, decentralised manufacturering of spares for the Piaggio group, each contient has a facility, 3d printers, 3D milling machines, lathes. You need bit XYZ, order goes to the local facility, they bring up the gerber file and stamp one out. Need a part thats comepley obsolete and unobtainable sned your sample into the facility they scan it and manufacture it the file goes onto the world wide data base so if someone else needs the same thing, thier local facility pulls the file out of the database and away they go. No need to wait for shipping or guess when Italy is on holidays.

I think the 1400 didn't take off the way they hoped on most of the Guzzi social media sites they are basically V7 forums except for those dedicated to individual models. I understand completely why they discontinued it.

Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 18, 2021, 08:42:18 AM
Here's a slightly different take, decentralised manufacturering of spares for the Piaggio group, each contient has a facility, 3d printers, 3D milling machines, lathes. You need bit XYZ, order goes to the local facility, they bring up the gerber file and stamp one out. Need a part thats comepley obsolete and unobtainable sned your sample into the facility they scan it and manufacture it the file goes onto the world wide data base so if someone else needs the same thing, thier local facility pulls the file out of the database and away they go. No need to wait for shipping or guess when Italy is on holidays.

I think the 1400 didn't take off the way they hoped on most of the Guzzi social media sites they are basically V7 forums except for those dedicated to individual models. I understand completely why they discontinued it.
Interesting take👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Dirk_S on April 18, 2021, 08:44:50 AM
Iíd say the 1400 didnít take off because your typical American isnít expected to even entertain the idea of a big, fat Italian cruiser made from a brand they probably never heard of.

Harley.
India.
Honda.
Yamaha.
Suzuki.
Kawasaki.


Only then do you start with Triumph, and the rest follow after.

Porky cruisers are an American thing, but many a citizen is used to a certain style, a certain brand. Good luck to the Italian outsiders who canít even get their dealer network down solid.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Travlr on April 18, 2021, 08:45:20 AM
The future of Moto Guzzi is electric.  As it is for all other motorcycle manufacturers.  When everybody uses the same motor how do you do product differentiation?  I suspect a lot of brands are going away.

Mike
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 18, 2021, 08:49:45 AM
If my business had these number percentages, I'd expect no change. No new product lines. No new services. I'd more than likely just be offering "the same old same"...

So, either they keep doing what they're doing now at the same pace or they completely fold. I see no room here for new product development, R&D, expansions, marketing, etc, without going into major loan debt.

 You point out something I learned in the '80's , growth can be tricky . The next few years will be interesting in the overall motorbike market , will it continue to shrink , will it stabilize , what effect will the emergence of new much improved models from Royal Enfield on the world market ?

 My best guess lines up with your assessment , Guzzi will plug along at least for the next 20 years , younger buyers seem to like the V85 series , it makes sense to build one line that appeals to a younger demographic .

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: elrealistico on April 18, 2021, 08:52:22 AM
Maybe, but 2020 will forever be treated as an aberration, as it should. They seemed to be doing...OK, but on the downward side of a peak, perhaps. Would need to see pre-17 to be sure

If my business had these number percentages, I'd expect no change. No new product lines. No new services. I'd more than likely just be offering "the same old same"...

So, either they keep doing what they're doing now at the same pace or they completely fold. I see no room here for new product development, R&D, expansions, marketing, etc, without going into major loan debt.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: tommy2cyl on April 18, 2021, 09:02:14 AM
Ncdan: I owned a Honda ST 1100 for 22 + years.  It was my two up touring machine and put 50 K miles on it.  Fully loaded and two up could cruise all day long at 85 - 90 mph or more,  easily.  Traveled on that bike from Ohio to Banff, PEI, and Key West, and points in between.  I never could see a need for anything more. 
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: kballowe on April 18, 2021, 09:12:55 AM

 :bike-037:

The future of Moto Guzzi ???

Well, If I ever get this thing working -

Then I'll come back and let ya'all know !


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51123227766_7f2c4182a5_z.jpg)
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: LowRyter on April 18, 2021, 09:37:17 AM
They're selling nothing interesting to me. 
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 18, 2021, 09:43:07 AM
They're selling nothing interesting to me.

 When was the last time you bought a new motorbike ? Used bike sales do nothing for a company's bottom line , only new bike sales make them any money .

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: JJ on April 18, 2021, 10:08:56 AM
No one can accurately predict the future...

However, I can GUARANTEE you that I will NOT be owning an "electric Moto Guzzi" in my lifetime... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked: :huh: :huh:
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: twowheeladdict on April 18, 2021, 10:26:08 AM
What I love about my V7III is its ability to transform into whatever I want it to be.

It started life as a standard.  Last year I converted it to a Cafe.  It can very easily be converted to a grocery getter / commuter / light tourer.
It can even be converted into a scrambler.

It is what the Universal Japanese Motorcycle was.

It can even be converted to a cruiser riding position if one so desires.

I have grown to realize that I have no need for big power.  I am over that part of my life.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 18, 2021, 10:27:54 AM
Ncdan: I owned a Honda ST 1100 for 22 + years.  It was my two up touring machine and put 50 K miles on it.  Fully loaded and two up could cruise all day long at 85 - 90 mph or more,  easily.  Traveled on that bike from Ohio to Banff, PEI, and Key West, and points in between.  I never could see a need for anything more.
I totally agree Tommy as its a 1100 and a high  torque and HP at that, plenty capabilities for a touring machine as the 1100 Guzzi is. This is quite a bit different than the motors Guzzi is leaning towards now, wouldnít you say?
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 18, 2021, 10:30:05 AM
They're selling nothing interesting to me.
Roger that LR, thatís where Iím at as well👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 18, 2021, 10:34:25 AM
No one can accurately predict the future...

However, I can GUARANTEE you that I will NOT be owning an "electric Moto Guzzi" in my lifetime... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked: :huh: :huh:
Never can be a while JJ. There may come a day we canít get gasoline 🤔😂👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: dave1068 on April 18, 2021, 10:53:09 AM
I just bought a new V85TT yesterday and was talking to the owner who has been in the bike business  for about 50yrs. The V7 line seems to be very popular and he cant hold them long w/out selling, even the V85TTs all sold out except for 1 base model and unsure when new ones will come.

I think we all remember when leftover Stelvios, Audaces and maybe Eldorados were almost 8000 off list price in yrs past. I think small bikes may be their forte as more women and novice riders find out about Guzzi, perhaps electric bikes will be the next wave for MG as HD and others follow suit.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: SmithSwede on April 18, 2021, 11:05:58 AM
Personally, I think electric vehicles are a pipe dream.  The IC engine is fully mature technology and works extremely well.   We have a trillion dollar infrastructure of gas stations and all the rest developed to service that tech.   We are swimming in oil for the long foreseeable future.  Electric is struggling to even come close to matching the performance of IC, and nobody thinks it will ever be radically superior (e.g. electric vehicles arenít going to create a 175 mph superhighway)

Iíd change my mind if the pre-tax true price of gasoline got to $12/gallon and stayed there.  But even if the price a fuel created a powerful incentive for electric, as soon as a substantial percentage switched to electric, wouldnít the price of gas collapse with the weaker demand?  Not clear to me where the equilibrium would be.

As to Guzzi, Iím surprised they have lasted this long. 

Sorry.  Maybe I had too many grumpy pills this morning
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 18, 2021, 11:12:36 AM
 Uh , electric vehicles are bad fast .

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Guzzistajohn on April 18, 2021, 11:21:58 AM
I've ridden two e-lectric dirt bikes. A trials bike and an enduro on a KTM looking frame. It was wicked fast on the #3 button. The lack of sound was odd. Just tires on the ground and chain noise. Can't speak for the future of this technology, I guess we'll see. That power has to come from somewhere.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: SmithSwede on April 18, 2021, 11:25:37 AM
Uh , electric vehicles are bad fast .

 Dusty

Well, some Tesla vehicles are fast.  So what?  A Corvette is fast too.  Besides, the electric version of the family grocery getter probably isnít going to be super fast like a Tesla.  Nor will the electric version of the econo-box.

But in any event, are we really going to switch to electric so we can have faster cars?  Is that a good thing?  And if that is really what the marketplace wanted, it could be supplied right now with IC.

Sorry.  I just donít get the electric thing.   Well, I get the interest in novel tech, and I get the boondoggle and subsidy aspects, but not the deeper fundamentals. 
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: ampm7 on April 18, 2021, 01:09:21 PM
As per the comment on lightweight bikes for the long haul, been in a 40 knot crosswind riding a light bike? Heavier is better for that scenario. Personally I'd like to see Moto Guzzi do a V-4 water cooled cruiser bike. One that weighs in at 620lbs and could be anywhere form 1000cc to 1500cc. And with a single sided CARC shaft and larger gas tank than my (new) Eldo had. Still make the 850's and improve on them. As for the electrics, they only work for someone in an urban environment and not made for the long haul.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Tim Henry on April 18, 2021, 01:37:24 PM
I'd like to see a v8 in mgs future or reintroduce the 120į v twin layout of their 1930s -50s bicylindrico racer in liquid cooled which is a nod to history and not be stuck in small block world but piaggio won't let it happen
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: tommy2cyl on April 18, 2021, 01:44:37 PM
Ncdan:  Yup.  Totally agree.  I also don't do 2 up anymore so that has eliminated a need for a bigger motor/hp  at this stage of my life.  I have never experienced the 1400 so like I said, not really qualified to comment on that.  Just my opinion on what I read and what I and my friends like, doesn't seem to be much interest in the larger bikes.  Everyone should buy what they want.  The market place speaks and the manufacturers react.  Time will tell.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: blackcat on April 18, 2021, 02:14:45 PM
As for the electrics, they only work for someone in an urban environment and not made for the long haul.

True, but that is a BIG number.

There are plenty of electric scooters in urban environments right now, mostly dorky and generally ugly but a well designed motorcycle at a reasonable price could be a money maker for a motorcycle company. Maybe not initially but it's going to happen,  especially as more and more electric cars enter the market.

I haven't taken the HD electric bike for a ride yet, but after hearing one blast by my house recently I decided that I need to take one for a test ride because that thing was wickedly fast and it sounded great.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Moparnut72 on April 18, 2021, 02:18:06 PM
As per the comment on lightweight bikes for the long haul, been in a 40 knot crosswind riding a light bike? Heavier is better for that scenario. Personally I'd like to see Moto Guzzi do a V-4 water cooled cruiser bike. One that weighs in at 620lbs and could be anywhere form 1000cc to 1500cc. And with a single sided CARC shaft and larger gas tank than my (new) Eldo had. Still make the 850's and improve on them. As for the electrics, they only work for someone in an urban environment and not made for the long haul.

I rode to Reno yesterday. There was major wind, probably about 40 mph. I am glad I was on the Audace and not the V7. I would like to see MG come out with a bike somewhere in between. A road bike based on the V85 would work for me. The Audace is getting somewhat heavy for me, old age is the culprit.

As to the future of MG they have got to do something about the dealership situation. There needs to be more and better quality. When I was in Reno I stopped by a motorcycle event. Open to all brands but there was a majority of Harleys. I got some nice comments on my bike, BUT one guy asked me where I got my bike, "Freedom Cycle?" No I got it from the company that bought them out. He said "they are a bunch of crooks". I had to agree with him. He then asked who worked on my bike? I pointed to my chest, he just smiled. The dealership network, or the lack of quality dealerships is probably the biggest problem. The false perception of the lousy quality of Italian products is another which is not an easy fix.
kk
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 18, 2021, 05:45:40 PM
Ncdan:  Yup.  Totally agree.  I also don't do 2 up anymore so that has eliminated a need for a bigger motor/hp  at this stage of my life.  I have never experienced the 1400 so like I said, not really qualified to comment on that.  Just my opinion on what I read and what I and my friends like, doesn't seem to be much interest in the larger bikes.  Everyone should buy what they want.  The market place speaks and the manufacturers react.  Time will tell.
Iím with ya Tom, Iím also riding solo now and now that Iíve got two bikes that weigh in a little over 600 lb and is in the CC range of 1000- 1100, Iíll probably never go back to a 800-900 pounder👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: kingoffleece on April 18, 2021, 06:34:52 PM
Well, net income is up which makes me wonder if some other costs are run thru Guzzi for many different accounting reasons.  Wouldn't be the first time costs get allocated in creative ways.  Also makes me think that some of the R and D for the V85 will now level out and those columns will change.

As for their US future, the dealer network issue KILLS them.  When I'm in a room with 20 riders 19 of them lie the bike but would NEVER own one.  The reception is there is no where to take it.  Mind, most ride Harleys and BMW's so I understand why they feel that way.  I'm half kidding, but only half.

And Guzzi N/A lost a, IMO, very knowledgeable and key player in 2nd half 2020.  Not at all a positive step.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: JJ on April 18, 2021, 06:40:58 PM
Never can be a while JJ. There may come a day we canít get gasoline 🤔😂👍

Maybe...but I suspect I will LONG GONE before then!! :evil: :bow: :thumb: :cool: :boozing:
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 18, 2021, 06:44:14 PM
Well, net income is up which makes me wonder if some other costs are run thru Guzzi for many different accounting reasons.  Wouldn't be the first time costs get allocated in creative ways.  Also makes me think that some of the R and D for the V85 will now level out and those columns will change.

As for their US future, the dealer network issue KILLS them.  When I'm in a room with 20 riders 19 of them lie the bike but would NEVER own one.  The reception is there is no where to take it.  Mind, most ride Harleys and BMW's so I understand why they feel that way.  I'm half kidding, but only half.

And Guzzi N/A lost a a, IMO, very knowledgeable and key player in 2nd half 2020.  Not at all a positive step.

What??
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: sidecarnutz on April 18, 2021, 07:13:47 PM
I got into Guzzi's after I came home from the first Gulf War. I had never seen them before and there was just something SO RIGHT about their layout and engineering to me. Appealed to me on a number of levels. It was the 1 liter Tonti framed bikes that grabbed me. I liked the loops OK, but it was the 80's and 90's bikes they made that grabbed me so hard. I did finally own a 2000 V11S and I turned it into a sport touring machine with home made racks to hold large Givi bags. But that was my last new Guzzi. I just slowly found less to like in their new offerings. Last month I bought a new RE 650 Conti GT and I'm having a lot of fun with that. Love the light handling and perfect brakes and fueling and the light clutch and perfect 6 speed box. That has become my new swiss army knife bike that'll do it all for me.
In 4 weeks I go under the knife for a new knee. Hoping to recover well enough by June to maybe ride to the VA Guzzi Rally. Just have to see how it goes.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: TN Mark on April 18, 2021, 08:29:25 PM
Why would Piaggio bring electric bikes through Moto Guzzi when their Vespa line seems more naturally aligned for that segment?
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 18, 2021, 09:07:33 PM
The V7 has mostly been selling well, the V85 has been a huge success, and hopefully the new 850 V7/9 sell well. I think the V9 will continue to slog along.

What you're really asking is 'is this all there will be'?  I don't know if the 1400's were Euro 5 complaint, but they way overbuilt that chassis in their dream of competing with Harley/Indian, and should have kept it on a smaller modified CARC chassis as a stressed member. Such a shame, imagine a 1400 Griso or Norge, or <gasp> 1400 Sport........ I think we are all hoping that Guzzi will have a larger street/touring bike.

Then again, weren't all the legendary Guzzi's in the 850 cc range? Lemans, Eldorado, etc?

I don't buy the electric thing, but who knows.  I still think they will have a street/sport version of the V85 motor, and as some have said, the head seemed to be precast as 4V heads. I would welcome a V85 based Sport Touring bike (Norge) or Lemans resurrection.

But I think Guzzi will be fine. Read a story that they had to more than double their work force to keep up with V85 demand.

In a way, I hope they don't come out with a new model I will want. I can't justify another bike other than an old loop as a 'project' and don't want to get ride of any of the bikes I have. Also important is that SWMBO read me the riot act this week (in her subdued oh so demure tones) about my 6 motorcycles, 2 sports cars and truck, so I have been..... ehem clipped, unless it is a low cost project.  :thewife:
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: kingoffleece on April 18, 2021, 10:05:27 PM
What what?  Look at the second page bottom.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: s1120 on April 19, 2021, 06:10:18 AM
Really for a small company, and the V7, and V85 selling so well, I can see its tough for them to rock the boat. Im really wondering about the V9's future..  You know its strange. The Cali/EV/Jackal/stone sold SO well..  Really they seemed to be the keystone bike at least in the US for a lot of years for Guzzi, but when they left..  nothing really replaced them. The 1400's were a LOT bigger... the V9 smaller..  I would have thought that one of them would fill the gap. Unless the old 1100 was just the sweet spot between sporty, and cruising.. I think a scrambler style, or "monster" naked bike style might be worth a jump into before the trend fades..  Other then that, I expect more of the same.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: 9fingers on April 19, 2021, 06:25:09 AM
The future of Moto Guzzi is electric.  As it is for all other motorcycle manufacturers.  When everybody uses the same motor how do you do product differentiation?  I suspect a lot of brands are going away.

Mike

As sad as it is, I agree with the above. I bought my new V7III Special because of the motor and the look of the bike. When the motor is gone there will only be the look. Thankfully I am old enough that I will never have to own an electric bike. I will grab a V85 in a couple of years, while I can.
Scott
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: OldMojo on April 19, 2021, 07:14:51 AM
I think the impending demise of the ICE motorcycle is overblown. They're such a tiny proportion of the transportation landscape that I don't think the replacement pressure is there. While electric bikes are certainly coming, people will switch to them for their own reasons, such as ease of maintenance and convenience, rather than lack of ICE availability.

I think it may shake out like lawnmowers in this regard. Electrics will become prevalent in the "light duty" segment (push mowers/commuter bikes) while ICE continues to serve the more demanding application (large riding mowers/touring bikes).

Where that leaves Guzzi is hard to say. In my mind, the engine is what makes a Guzzi a Guzzi. I don't know how they make the transition and remain distinctive.

But the fact is that electric bikes are in their infancy, and it remains to be seen what configurations may emerge. Maybe they develop some slick hub driven 2WD setup, or a counter-rotating twin motor/twin shaft drive arrangement!

More than likely though, electric development will occur with the Piaggio stablemates, as someone else mentioned, and Guzzi will inherit the ICE segment, continuing to do what they do.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 07:29:09 AM
Personally, I think electric vehicles are a pipe dream.  The IC engine is fully mature technology and works extremely well.   We have a trillion dollar infrastructure of gas stations and all the rest developed to service that tech.   We are swimming in oil for the long foreseeable future.  Electric is struggling to even come close to matching the performance of IC, and nobody thinks it will ever be radically superior (e.g. electric vehicles arenít going to create a 175 mph superhighway)

Iíd change my mind if the pre-tax true price of gasoline got to $12/gallon and stayed there.  But even if the price a fuel created a powerful incentive for electric, as soon as a substantial percentage switched to electric, wouldnít the price of gas collapse with the weaker demand?  Not clear to me where the equilibrium would be.

As to Guzzi, Iím surprised they have lasted this long. 

Sorry.  Maybe I had too many grumpy pills this morning
I pretty much can agree with your take on this mr smith, especially on the EV/IC take.
As far as MG is concerned, there are reasons  that the company does not seem capable of growth. Some of it is the fault of the companies that have owned it and some of it is the inherent issues that tend to plague most every model they come out with.
Personally I canít believe that a motorcycle company can complete with the rest of the market with a limited CC motor of 850. I also believe that they canít stay competitive without a bigger tourer, both Sport and cruiser style. There are simply too much of the riding public in these type of bikes and not so called ADVENTURE BIKES. Not knocking these monster dirt road warriors, I just donít believe they will hold the brand up, these and the 700s. I could definitely be found wrong and the future will be the only judge.
Good conversation👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kev m on April 19, 2021, 07:52:28 AM
I pretty much can agree with your take on this mr smith, especially on the EV/IC take.
As far as MG is concerned, there are reasons  that the company does not seem capable of growth. Some of it is the fault of the companies that have owned it and some of it is the inherent issues that tend to plague most every model they come out with.
Personally I canít believe that a motorcycle company can complete with the rest of the market with a limited CC motor of 850. I also believe that they canít stay competitive without a bigger tourer, both Sport and cruiser style. There are simply too much of the riding public in these type of bikes and not so called ADVENTURE BIKES. Not knocking these monster dirt road warriors, I just donít believe they will hold the brand up, these and the 700s. I could definitely be found wrong and the future will be the only judge.
Good conversation👍

I'm tempted to think like you and wonder. Personally I think a 1000-1200cc water-cooled CARC would be the answer. You wouldn't need the cubes of the 1400 and you would be set with performance and emissions for a long time. This along with the smallblock variants would deliver what most of the world wants, just not the super-heavyweight touring bikes and frankly, and who cares for now and maybe forever I mean I dunno even what BMW sells of the big-big bikes. They make their lionshare 1250 down right?!?

Just look at the Harley Pan Am - if THEY can do it, why not Guzzi.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 08:00:45 AM
I'm tempted to think like you and wonder. Personally I think a 1000-1200cc water-cooled CARC would be the answer. You wouldn't need the cubes of the 1400 and you would be set with performance and emissions for a long time. This along with the smallblock variants would deliver what most of the world wants, just not the super-heavyweight touring bikes and frankly, and who cares for now and maybe forever I mean I dunno even what BMW sells of the big-big bikes. They make their lionshare 1250 down right?!?


Just look at the Harley Pan Am - if THEY can do it, why not Guzzi.
I agree and no it doesnít have to be 1400 or bigger but itís going to have to exceed a 850 to stay in the race, overall. Not saying that the 850 in not a big enough mill, especially in some platforms and itís plenty big enough for any style bike for me at this point of of my life. Iím just saying all around the motorcycle community as a hole that these motor size questions apply.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on April 19, 2021, 08:32:30 AM
I think the prognostications on Guzzi's demise are well overstated.  This is a niche company that makes niche products. They have never been a sales behemoth or had much of a footprint outside esoteric circles of enthusiasts (beside their short stint supplying bikes to CA highway patrol).   Judging from their dealer network and support, it doesnt even seem like they want to move beyond that (in the US at least).

There are plenty of companies who make their hay selling quirky/retro/niche products to those who want them, and dont really offer anything outside that to attract other buyers/demographics. 
For example, I have this espresso machine.. This company is now owned by Iily, but for a long time they were indy and made only retro espresso machines. They eventually got bought out by a big company and became just one part of their product mix (kinda like MG and piaggio)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1y0AAOSwAqhgRoTX/s-l640.jpg)

Is it the best espresso machine on the market? Hell no. Does it have the strongest pump, the best boiler, does it pull the most consistent shots?  No. But it's passable/competitive if operated correctly, it is very basic to use, it has no worthless bells & whistles, no 'convenience features' no timers, no automatic frothing settings. Just an on/off switch and a brew switch and a toggle hi/low/ temp control. Plus is looks funky and retro and its unique.

I think Guzzi fills a similar niche, they sell a few thousand bikes a year, and at least pre-- they were making the parent company money, and were trending in an ok direction.  Not every motorcycle company can be Honda. That's just peachy for me.

As for the big blocks going away, I dont really care. The current gen has very similar engine layout, the 850 in the V85 is almost a strong as my 1100 Breva, and the bike weighs 100# less.
If people wanted more CARC bikes and 1400 cruisers, they probably would have sold instead of languishing on dealer floors.  Moto Guzzi has a strong seller in the v7 that pays homage to the company history, and the v85 and v9 are good variants off that. I dont know what ya'll expect. They arent going to continue making bikes that dont sell.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: JJ on April 19, 2021, 09:54:21 AM
Maybe I am just old school, but I just don't see a Moto Guzzi looking like this electric ZERO motorcycle...

 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked: :huh: :huh:


(https://i.ibb.co/T2CBd7z/Screen-Shot-2021-04-19-at-7-52-53-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/T2CBd7z)
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 09:54:52 AM
I think the prognostications on Guzzi's demise are well overstated.  This is a niche company that makes niche products. They have never been a sales behemoth or had much of a footprint outside esoteric circles of enthusiasts (beside their short stint supplying bikes to CA highway patrol).   Judging from their dealer network and support, it doesnt even seem like they want to move beyond that (in the US at least).

There are plenty of companies who make their hay selling quirky/retro/niche products to those who want them, and dont really offer anything outside that to attract other buyers/demographics. 
For example, I have this espresso machine.. This company is now owned by Iily, but for a long time they were indy and made only retro espresso machines. They eventually got bought out by a big company and became just one part of their product mix (kinda like MG and piaggio)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1y0AAOSwAqhgRoTX/s-l640.jpg)

Is it the best espresso machine on the market? Hell no. Does it have the strongest pump, the best boiler, does it pull the most consistent shots?  No. But it's passable/competitive if operated correctly, it is very basic to use, it has no worthless bells & whistles, no 'convenience features' no timers, no automatic frothing settings. Just an on/off switch and a brew switch and a toggle hi/low/ temp control. Plus is looks funky and retro and its unique.

I think Guzzi fills a similar niche, they sell a few thousand bikes a year, and at least pre-- they were making the parent company money, and were trending in an ok direction.  Not every motorcycle company can be Honda. That's just peachy for me.

As for the big blocks going away, I dont really care. The current gen has very similar engine layout, the 850 in the V85 is almost a strong as my 1100 Breva, and the bike weighs 100# less.
If people wanted more CARC bikes and 1400 cruisers, they probably would have sold instead of languishing on dealer floors.  Moto Guzzi has a strong seller in the v7 that pays homage to the company history, and the v85 and v9 are good variants off that. I dont know what ya'll expect. They arent going to continue making bikes that dont sell.
Youíre right about them not continuing to make bikes that does not sell, just look at the 1400s.
Thereís no doubt that MG is not going to stay in business, as they will, due to the fact that itís a fact they have been going out of business since 1921🤔
The point of my thread in the first place was pretty much aimed at the speculation of not having a bike any larger than the 850cc, wise move or not? 
Itís been an interesting conversation, for me anyhow, and thatís what the s forum is about.
Carry on👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kev m on April 19, 2021, 10:12:58 AM

As for the big blocks going away, I dont really care. The current gen has very similar engine layout, the 850 in the V85 is almost a strong as my 1100 Breva, and the bike weighs 100# less.
If people wanted more CARC bikes and 1400 cruisers, they probably would have sold instead of languishing on dealer floors.  Moto Guzzi has a strong seller in the v7 that pays homage to the company history, and the v85 and v9 are good variants off that. I dont know what ya'll expect. They arent going to continue making bikes that dont sell.

To be clear I'm not saying they should have continued with the 1200 CARCS or the 1400s.

But I DO THINK a new SSSA 1000-1200cc water-cooled bike could offer a lot of room on top of the smallblock series for a more complete line of bikes.

And I think your comparison of the B11 and V85 is off.

V85TT (2020 specs): 505# Wet - 67 rwhp / 49 torques
B11 (my FBF dyno result stock): 562# Wet - 75 rwhp / 58 torques

So that's 57# less but it's also 8 hp less and 9 ft. lbs. less. But I THINK that doesn't tell the whole story. The V85 feels VERY different from the B11 and not nearly as punchy or freight-train like on the highway.

The V85 is a great bike, but as the top dog of the line it is far below what is available from a lot of other manufacturers.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: blackcat on April 19, 2021, 10:21:33 AM
Maybe I am just old school, but I just don't see a Moto Guzzi looking like this electric ZERO motorcycle...

 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked: :huh: :huh:


(https://i.ibb.co/T2CBd7z/Screen-Shot-2021-04-19-at-7-52-53-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/T2CBd7z)


I prefer the look of the HD:

(https://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/category-images/2021/hero-cards-3-up/electric-motorcycle-1x1.jpg?impolicy=myresize&rw=650)
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 19, 2021, 10:31:40 AM
I had a fun discussion with Pete Roper last year about the possibility of bumping the 850 V85 motor closer to 1000 CC's.  He was of the opinion that the small block is maxed out at 850. He also on examination of the Heads believes that they were pre-engineered to be 4 Valve Heads run with the same pushrods, not the in head cam of the CARC 8V motors. Though I think they dropped the ball by not developing the 1400 8V in a trimmer package, as a stressed member, or lighter chassis, I don't think Guzzi needs to go back to the Big Block.

The Small Block in the V85 at 84x77 is oversquare or short-stroke as its cylinders have a greater bore diameter than its stroke length, giving a bore/stroke ratio greater than 1:1. I ran some figures on bore and stroke, and personally don't feel that it is impossible to get to 950+ cc, but as Pete is far more knowledgeable, his belief is that the stroke can't be increased much due to contact with the cyl lowers, and that the case is at it's limit for bore, but just a 5mm increase bore with same stroke puts you at 958cc, and the same bore with 1mm increase is 970 and so on. NOT much of a change, and throw a 4V head on top, higher power output is a given. I'd prefer more stroke.
https://spicerparts.com/calculators/engine-displacement-calculator

I think Guzzi has a great platform to build on with the V85 motor. On the V7/9 they literally tuned it down, we will see if they tune and develop it UP. Just a bit more power from that motor, and it would be perfect for a Classic performance oriented street bike as Triumph has done with the Thruxton, etc. That said, there is no replacement for displacement, and though the V85 may be close to the B11 or Griso 1100, there is NO comparison to how those bikes make power and feel compared to the V85.

Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 19, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
Kev, I think the guys at FBF were adding a few HP to make their customers feel good.  Pete Roper said that about the most you could get out of the 2v, without putting major time and money in, was 75hp.  If you were getting 75 out of a bone stock B1100, you had a very beefy motor indeed.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kev m on April 19, 2021, 10:51:52 AM
Kev, I think the guys at FBF were adding a few HP to make their customers feel good.  Pete Roper said that about the most you could get out of the 2v, without putting major time and money in, was 75hp.  If you were getting 75 out of a bone stock B1100, you had a very beefy motor indeed.

I was going to note that at least one other magazine showed a B11 dyno with similar numbers (SportRider), but that MCN (consumer news) had slightly lower numbers. I did eventually ditch the crossover and had GT reflash the ECU and it was definitely even more punchy at that point.

Bottom line it felt WAY more punchy than a V85.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 19, 2021, 11:49:04 AM
Yes, I guess we are really splitting hairs here.   
Rider posted these numbers, 

"Strapped onto the Borla Performance Dynojet dynamometer, the Breva spun up 71.7 rear-wheel horsepower at 7,400 rpm and 56.3 lb-ft of torque peaked at 5,500 revs."
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 19, 2021, 02:46:42 PM
 The 1400 was just a bit past the limit of stone axe reliability , the crankshaft was stressed at 1200 CC's in the later NTX Stelvios . Same with the SB , yeah , you might get a few cubes W/O problems , but unless MG redesigns the crank and cases for more bearing , a much bigger SB is gonna go boom.

 Give me an 850 in a sport touring set up , something with decent bags and fairing .

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 04:37:54 PM
I was talking to one of my forum Pals last night and after our conversation ended a question became apparent to me, what is the future of the moto Guzzi brand of motorcycle.
They no longer produce the newest line, 1400s, which was their future for touring  and cruiser bikes at the time of introduction. They no longer offer the ole work horse 1100 series, which was used in most all of the versions of riding needs and desires of Guzzi riders, so whatís left?
Personally for the kind of bikes I prefer being cruiser/ tourers, the future looks kind of bleak:(.
What say my fellow Guzzi enthusiast?

They will continue as they always have being just one step away from greatness.  Never reaching greatness, but always close. 

They will continue to do everything they can to drive existing customers away and continually make it difficult for new customers to take the leap to buy their bikes by not supporting their struggling dealer base.

They seem to have survived 100 years using this plan, so it must be valid!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 04:40:10 PM

                                                                         Moto Guzzi
                                                                     Established 1921
                                                          Going out of business since 1922


 Dusty

and....


Moto Guzzi
"Making Mechanics out of Enthusiasts since 1921"
             
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 04:41:47 PM
But does totally dropping the bigger blocks make sense?

No...
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 04:43:04 PM
I'm betting in the next few years MG will pump billions of dollars into creating a reliable worldwide dealer network plus working creating new motorcycles that are old but new and with lots of new tech but no tech. Piaggio will support warranty claims, back dealers and become #1 worldwide in customer service. MG will in the coming years will expand at a rate faster than the universe did during the big bang outpacing all other manufacturers combined.

Or they will go tits up.

LOL!!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 04:45:23 PM
I am not a big block guy.  My bikes of choice have been in the 500 - 1000 cc range.  I am not really qualified to say.  I have always been "intrigued" by people who ride 700 lb and up motorcycles.  I feel you can tour very well on a 500 lb./80 hp motorcycle.  I don't know if the future of motorcycles in general is for bikes over 1000 cc.  Like I said, not really qualified to comment.  Do you feel there is enough of a demand for this type/size of bike?

Well, there is this American motorcycle company that has successfully made that their business plan for 118 years.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 04:50:07 PM
they bring up the gerber file and stamp one out.

"gerber".....you're funny.  :grin:

And, yes remember how well JITM has worked out?  Ask those companies who had parts held up by the EVER GIVEN fiasco.   :wink:
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: kingoffleece on April 19, 2021, 04:51:59 PM
Am I the only one who thinks a larger EURO 5 motor will come down the pike?  Or thinks the 1400 was canned due to regulations and a clean sheet design is coming?
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 04:57:17 PM
Ncdan: I owned a Honda ST 1100 for 22 + years.  It was my two up touring machine and put 50 K miles on it.  Fully loaded and two up could cruise all day long at 85 - 90 mph or more,  easily.  Traveled on that bike from Ohio to Banff, PEI, and Key West, and points in between.  I never could see a need for anything more.

So, you two agree.  Heavy touring bikes work better!  (note weight and displacement of the ST1100...)

"Though big and heavyó61.2 inches between the axles, and depending on the model anywhere from 679 to 737 pounds wetóthe ST1100 worked well enough on smooth back roads to keep riders entertained. The 1,085cc ďflyingĒ four had the same kind of low-end grunt as its cousins, cranking out a claimed 79 lb-ft of torque and about 100 horsepower. A quartet of carbs nestled between the cylinder banks provided glitch-free fueling, and the 7.4-gallon gas tank kept them fed for up to 300 miles between stops."

A Look Back: 1991-2002 Honda ST1100
By
Jerry Smith - November 16, 2017
RIDER magazine
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 19, 2021, 05:00:19 PM
 Rumor has it the engineers are prototyping an X layout using a slightly modified crankcase and 4 of the 850 cylinders working out to 1700 CC's .

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: roadventure on April 19, 2021, 05:07:07 PM
The dealership network, or the lack of quality dealerships is probably the biggest problem. The false perception of the lousy quality of Italian products is another which is not an easy fix.
kk

Agree 100%
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 19, 2021, 05:41:45 PM
Am I the only one who thinks a larger EURO 5 motor will come down the pike?  Or thinks the 1400 was canned due to regulations and a clean sheet design is coming?

Am I the only one who thinks the 1400 is not dead?  True it's not being used in any 21s, but that doesn't mean it won't show up as a reworked 2022 or 2023.  I mean look at the american car companies, they have been killing and then rebirthing various v8 motors for decades!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 06:41:07 PM
The 1400 was just a bit past the limit of stone axe reliability , the crankshaft was stressed at 1200 CC's in the later NTX Stelvios . Same with the SB , yeah , you might get a few cubes W/O problems , but unless MG redesigns the crank and cases for more bearing , a much bigger SB is gonna go boom.

 Give me an 850 in a sport touring set up , something with decent bags and fairing .

 Dusty
I could go there also Dusty, maybe also offer a more cruiser style also.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: tommy2cyl on April 19, 2021, 09:46:34 PM
Well, there is this American motorcycle company that has successfully made that their business plan for 118 years.

Well, that's true.  But here are a few thoughts.

HD's motorcycle sales peaked 15 years ago, and have dropped 40% since. HD's laid off 700 employees last year.  HD's is currently in the process of reducing their product line by 30% and has experienced 17 straight quarters of sales decline. HD has known for quite some time that it needs to reach a younger customer.  The problem is that demographic  doesn't necessarily want the same things in a motorcycle that HD's older base values.

HD's will continue to make big bore bikes. Just not as many, because it is a changing market place.   HD's will survive and I applaud them for diversifying with the new PanAm and moving into the future with an electric bike.   As another poster pointed out, if you are going to buy a big cruiser/bagger/touring type bike,  I would think you would go with HD or even Indian that has a substantial dealer network nationwide that can support your ride while on a long haul.  Personally I don't think there is a large enough demand for MG's buyers to pick the 1400 over the previous options.  Past history of how they languished on the sales floor and didn't sell well I think would support that.

Regarding the ST 1100.  Point I was trying to make with Ncdan was that 1100 cc vs 1400 cc  (300 cc less) was more than adequate for me to accomplish the job of two up touring.  Your stats are appreciated: it was heavy, heavier than I preferred even at 1100 cc's.   As soon as my two up days were over, I transitioned to a smaller displacement bike that could easily do highway speeds of 80 mph in comfort and shed about 175 pounds. 

There will always be a need for large displacement bikes for touring.  I just don't think  there will continue to be as large of a demand as in the past because of the changing demographics and technologies.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: GeorgiaGuzzi on April 19, 2021, 10:12:52 PM
Given the issues that several different members had with 1400ís, Iím on the side of ďno great lossĒ.

Also. Please understand I am not trying to be rude or condescending or anything. But thinking ďbigger is betterĒ is dated thinking. How many here own new cars or trucks with smaller forced induction engines that put out more power than old V-8s? As technology drives efficiency gains, having a clean burning small block that gives comparable performance of a big block is a no brainer, from a manufacturing standpoint. Tooling is hella expensive. And if the demographic that tooling is being ordered for is dying off, it doesnít make sense to keep investing in it. I guess Iím thinking that time marches onward, whether we want it to or not.

Personally I think their dealership/customer service experience needs to be improved upon first. Otherwise it wonít matter what they do or donít offer.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: kingoffleece on April 19, 2021, 10:24:33 PM
I'll toss in a lot is dependent on where you ride.  Parts of this country as SO wide open and straight........... .................
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 10:28:55 PM
They will continue as they always have being just one step away from greatness.  Never reaching greatness, but always close. 

They will continue to do everything they can to drive existing customers away and continually make it difficult for new customers to take the leap to buy their bikes by not supporting their struggling dealer base.

They seem to have survived 100 years using this plan, so it must be valid!
You know RV, thatís just about the most reasonable and acceptable explanation of the brand as I e ever heard.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 10:34:47 PM
So, you two agree.  Heavy touring bikes work better!  (note weight and displacement of the ST1100...)

"Though big and heavyó61.2 inches between the axles, and depending on the model anywhere from 679 to 737 pounds wetóthe ST1100 worked well enough on smooth back roads to keep riders entertained. The 1,085cc ďflyingĒ four had the same kind of low-end grunt as its cousins, cranking out a claimed 79 lb-ft of torque and about 100 horsepower. A quartet of carbs nestled between the cylinder banks provided glitch-free fueling, and the 7.4-gallon gas tank kept them fed for up to 300 miles between stops."

A Look Back: 1991-2002 Honda ST1100
By
Jerry Smith - November 16, 2017
RIDER magazine

Well Jerry, that depends on if one considers a ST1100 a heavy touring bike? After riding an 03 1450 electric glide all over the Easter US, I donít consider the 1100 a heavy touring bike. However I consider it a totally acceptable touring bike. If this makes sense??
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 10:38:33 PM
Am I the only one who thinks the 1400 is not dead?  True it's not being used in any 21s, but that doesn't mean it won't show up as a reworked 2022 or 2023.  I mean look at the american car companies, they have been killing and then rebirthing various v8 motors for decades!
Good point BC!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 10:40:30 PM
Rumor has it the engineers are prototyping an X layout using a slightly modified crankcase and 4 of the 850 cylinders working out to 1700 CC's .

 Dusty
Too big for my needs??
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 10:44:05 PM
Well, that's true.  But here are a few thoughts.

HD's motorcycle sales peaked 15 years ago, and have dropped 40% since. HD's laid off 700 employees last year.  HD's is currently in the process of reducing their product line by 30% and has experienced 17 straight quarters of sales decline. HD has known for quite some time that it needs to reach a younger customer.  The problem is that demographic  doesn't necessarily want the same things in a motorcycle that HD's older base values.

HD's will continue to make big bore bikes. Just not as many, because it is a changing market place.   HD's will survive and I applaud them for diversifying with the new PanAm and moving into the future with an electric bike.   As another poster pointed out, if you are going to buy a big cruiser/bagger/touring type bike,  I would think you would go with HD or even Indian that has a substantial dealer network nationwide that can support your ride while on a long haul.  Personally I don't think there is a large enough demand for MG's buyers to pick the 1400 over the previous options.  Past history of how they languished on the sales floor and didn't sell well I think would support that.

Regarding the ST 1100.  Point I was trying to make with Ncdan was that 1100 cc vs 1400 cc  (300 cc less) was more than adequate for me to accomplish the job of two up touring.  Your stats are appreciated: it was heavy, heavier than I preferred even at 1100 cc's.   As soon as my two up days were over, I transitioned to a smaller displacement bike that could easily do highway speeds of 80 mph in comfort and shed about 175 pounds. 

There will always be a need for large displacement bikes for touring.  I just don't think  there will continue to be as large of a demand as in the past because of the changing demographics and technologies.
I got your point Tommy on the replacement issue and Iím in total agreement 👍👍👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 19, 2021, 10:50:01 PM
Too big??

 my sources say it weighs 450 lbs full of fuel .

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 10:52:44 PM
Given the issues that several different members had with 1400ís, Iím on the side of ďno great lossĒ.

Also. Please understand I am not trying to be rude or condescending or anything. But thinking ďbigger is betterĒ is dated thinking. How many here own new cars or trucks with smaller forced induction engines that put out more power than old V-8s? As technology drives efficiency gains, having a clean burning small block that gives comparable performance of a big block is a no brainer, from a manufacturing standpoint. Tooling is hella expensive. And if the demographic that tooling is being ordered for is dying off, it doesnít make sense to keep investing in it. I guess Iím thinking that time marches onward, whether we want it to or not.

Personally I think their dealership/customer service experience needs to be improved upon first. Otherwise it wonít matter what they do or donít offer.
Agreeded GG on the opinion that bigger is not always better 👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 19, 2021, 10:58:19 PM
my sources say it weighs 450 lbs full of fuel .

 Dusty
That would be a Monster of a motorcycle!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: redhawk47 on April 19, 2021, 11:17:07 PM
I prefer the look of the HD:

(https://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/category-images/2021/hero-cards-3-up/electric-motorcycle-1x1.jpg?impolicy=myresize&rw=650)
I visited the local H-D dealer to check out the PanAm; I knew more about it than the salesman, and the manager had no idea when they would get one.
They had one of their electrics on the floor so I asked if I could sit on it. I'm long in the waist, about like your typical 6'3" guy.  On the bike I was stretched like this young lady - there was no way I would take that bike for a test ride.

Dan
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Murray on April 20, 2021, 05:35:44 AM
"gerber".....you're funny.  :grin:

And, yes remember how well JITM has worked out?  Ask those companies who had parts held up by the EVER GIVEN fiasco.   :wink:

The idea was to have a facility or two on each continent to avoid the shipping issues, something about living in one of the most isolated capital cities in the world and have some obscure motorcycle. JIT doesn't work it never has despite what the various local importers claim. Fortunately I have a very good independent shop locally who also thinks JIT is crap and keeps parts in stock, I can get Guzzi parts faster and easier than Yamaha or Honda.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: SmithSwede on April 20, 2021, 07:24:56 AM
Only 250 hp?  Sigh.   If they could get to 270 then Iíd be interested. 
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 20, 2021, 07:33:07 AM
I visited the local H-D dealer to check out the PanAm; I knew more about it than the salesman, and the manager had no idea when they would get one.
They had one of their electrics on the floor so I asked if I could sit on it. I'm long in the waist, about like your typical 6'3" guy.  On the bike I was stretched like this young lady - there was no way I would take that bike for a test ride.

Dan

While waiting to have tires put on my Stornello rims a couple weeks ago, I drove over to my local Harley dealer and did the same. No Pan Americas yet, but he took my number. They also had one of the electrics on the showroom floor. Was a decent looking bike and F&F was impressive. I asked how many they sold, and all I got was a blank stare. They also had a few AMF color schemed Sportster 1200 Irons that caught my eye. Not bad for around $10K.

As I wandered the floor, I was shocked at the sales prices.... Many bikes were in the mid #30K range!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Tim Henry on April 20, 2021, 07:42:21 AM
The dealer experience has to change I've never met a sales person who knew even minimal history of the brand or any past models plus they never even stock basic maintenance items
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 20, 2021, 01:02:58 PM
The dealer experience has to change I've never met a sales person who knew even minimal history of the brand or any past models plus they never even stock basic maintenance items
And worse than that, there are states now with no or maybe one minimal one like in my state, does not help the cause.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 20, 2021, 01:06:28 PM
Has the dealer situation ever been good from a national stand point?
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Charles in Lake Charles on April 20, 2021, 01:21:35 PM
Quote
Has the dealer situation ever been good from a national stand point?

In the 40 plus years of ownership, nothing much changes.

Everybody say it is going broke, but it just soldiers on.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 20, 2021, 01:52:19 PM
In the 40 plus years of ownership, nothing much changes.

Everybody say it is going broke, but it just soldiers on.
Yep, I think your take is right and the loyal owners club, as you are, is what has proped the brand up over the years. The folks on this forum makes this evident. 
This being the way it is, my original question is still Revelant. The company now has two motor platforms, small and smaller, is that substantial for any motorcycle company? I know it would put any of the other brands down in short order, I know HD and Honda would fall.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: GeorgiaGuzzi on April 20, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
The may Ď21 mgnoc newsletter has a very interesting article on the Guzzi small block. The article originally appeared in cycle world. I found it very informative.

Also an interesting press release from Piaggio about forming a consortium with KTM, Honda, and Yamaha to develop battery technology for bikes. Iím pretty excited about having the option as I get older to have an electric bike for runabout duty.

Electric will be a game changer for bikes IMO. Especially if theyíre direct drive, no shifting. And power? Just watch Tesla p100d drag races. Solid 10.5 quarter miles out of a family sedan.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Moparnut72 on April 20, 2021, 08:35:31 PM
I was given a Zero as a loaner while my V7 was getting its first and last dealer service. I liked riding it. I liked it a lot. I would have one as a local bike but the price will have to come down, quite a bit btw.
kk
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: LowRyter on April 20, 2021, 09:22:01 PM
Yes, I guess we are really splitting hairs here.   
Rider posted these numbers, 

"Strapped onto the Borla Performance Dynojet dynamometer, the Breva spun up 71.7 rear-wheel horsepower at 7,400 rpm and 56.3 lb-ft of torque peaked at 5,500 revs."

My V11 Sport ran 77 HP on Don's Dyno Jet. 

Those aren't Shetland ponies,  :embarrassed:

they're Clydesdale's!    :bow:

 :bike-037:
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: TN Mark on April 20, 2021, 10:03:46 PM
Yep, I think your take is right and the loyal owners club, as you are, is what has proped the brand up over the years. The folks on this forum makes this evident. 
This being the way it is, my original question is still Revelant. The company now has two motor platforms, small and smaller, is that substantial for any motorcycle company? I know it would put any of the other brands down in short order, I know HD and Honda would fall.

It seems to work for Royal Enfield. IMHO, that's where Piaggio has now placed Moto Guzzi due to engine size and quirkiness (uniqueness). Except that Royal Enfield is one of the worlds largest motorcycle manufacturers where Moto Guzzi is one of the smallest. At this point though, Moto Guzzi is limited to the smaller end of the road bike spectrum. 

Earlier this week a colleague in Chicago said he's wanted a 750cc Moto Guzzi for years. He looked around at his 'local' dealer options and was not at all impressed. I suggested taking a ride over to Blue Ash, OH to Cadre Cycle. He said: "why, the local Royal Enfield dealerships are fine and supportive. I think I'll just go that route. Plus they'ye making great bikes now." No point to argue with those facts.
 
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: rocker59 on April 20, 2021, 11:00:31 PM
I was talking to one of my forum Pals last night and after our conversation ended a question became apparent to me, what is the future of the moto Guzzi brand of motorcycle.
They no longer produce the newest line, 1400s, which was their future for touring  and cruiser bikes at the time of introduction. They no longer offer the ole work horse 1100 series, which was used in most all of the versions of riding needs and desires of Guzzi riders, so whatís left?
Personally for the kind of bikes I prefer being cruiser/ tourers, the future looks kind of bleak:(.
What say my fellow Guzzi enthusiast?

Since its introduction in 2009, the clear road ahead for Guzzi has been the V7 Classics and other small block offerings.

1100 Tonti ended a decade ago with the Calvin 90th Anniversary bike.

Tha CARC era ended with the Grist 8V SE.

The big block era ended with the Cal14.

Nothing followed those cancelations, except more new versions of small block bikes.

The future is chiseled in stone. 

Piaggio electric bikes with Guzzi badges will follow the small blocks.

"And that's the way it is, cause Stone Cold says so"
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 20, 2021, 11:06:42 PM
Since its introduction in 2009, the clear road ahead for Guzzi has been the V7 Classics and other small block offerings.



"And that's the way it is, cause Stone Cold says so"

  :laugh: That is a funny commercial , one of the few that registers .

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Dirk_S on April 21, 2021, 05:59:55 AM
I will be very surprised if MG comes out with an electric. MG has been known, at least lately, for a couple things that make them desirable - the transverse V-twin and their affordability. Electric throws out both of these. If anyone in the Piaggio stable gets electric, itíll be Aprilia for performance, or the scooters because it makes way more sense for scooters to be electric at this point. I just donít see MG going electric, at least not for a while yet. Besides, if they did, that move would be AHEAD of the competitionóhow often do we see that from the brand? Liquid-cooling just makes senseókeep the looks, maintain emissions standard, stay in business.

Like my favorite rap group Public Enemy said:

ďDonít believe the hype.Ē

...BOYYYYYYYEEEEEEE EEEEEEEE.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: blackcat on April 21, 2021, 08:01:29 AM


Piaggio electric bikes with Guzzi badges will follow the small blocks.


A modern day Galletto, the Gallectto.

https://www.rideapart.com/news/433948/moto-guzzi-galletto-hybrid-concept-design/
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on April 21, 2021, 08:33:57 AM
A modern day Galletto, the Gallectto.

https://www.rideapart.com/news/433948/moto-guzzi-galletto-hybrid-concept-design/

I would buy this to commute on so dang fast!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 21, 2021, 09:32:13 AM
Vespa already has two electric scooters.  The Elettrica.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on April 21, 2021, 09:42:19 AM
Vespa already has two electric scooters.  The Elettrica.

i want the big wheels and the concept bike's styling... plus a MG badge on it!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 21, 2021, 02:52:39 PM
 Can't come up with a name for an E Guzzi that matches PlugIndian , the best I have so far is MotoElectrica ,which is really weak .

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: dguzzi on April 21, 2021, 05:16:34 PM
I still think a Guzzi could be electric; heads and cylinders are the motors, with a big bevel gear on the crankshaft, gearbox replaced with a battery bank. Then you have that hot torque monster!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 21, 2021, 06:45:01 PM
Since its introduction in 2009, the clear road ahead for Guzzi has been the V7 Classics and other small block offerings.

1100 Tonti ended a decade ago with the Calvin 90th Anniversary bike.

Tha CARC era ended with the Grist 8V SE.

The big block era ended with the Cal14.

Nothing followed those cancelations, except more new versions of small block bikes.

The future is chiseled in stone. 

Piaggio electric bikes with Guzzi badges will follow the small blocks.

"And that's the way it is, cause Stone Cold says so"
If your assessment comes to be, I simply canít see a very large percentage of this forums generation supporting future bike sales for the MG brand. I realize Iím just an individual and possibly not the majority, however Iíd be surprised to find out Iím the Minority in the subject. Unless, like Dusty and I agreed to that an 850 touring bike in either sport touring and/or cruiser style both dressed like a true touring bike should be in the future plans. And thatís not like my 1400 came as a so called Touring bike, which it was far from such.
Also let me clarify this. Iím not saying MG is going out of business or that Iím not going to own and ride a MG because I really love these bikes, just that I would probably not want to go out a buy one of the newer models 👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 21, 2021, 06:52:37 PM
Know body here has any clue.
Time reveals what will be.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: sidecarnutz on April 21, 2021, 06:57:49 PM
I suppose I'm a old dinosaur, but I think MG hit their high mark with the Calvin 90th Anniversary bike. My Cali's were my favorite MGs and that one really struck me as "right" in so many ways. Still wish I could've afforded one back in the day. The EV with tubeless rims was pretty damned awesome as well.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 21, 2021, 07:20:02 PM
I suppose I'm a old dinosaur, but I think MG hit their high mark with the Calvin 90th Anniversary bike. My Cali's were my favorite MGs and that one really struck me as "right" in so many ways. Still wish I could've afforded one back in the day. The EV with tubeless rims was pretty damned awesome as well.
And thatís exactly where Iím at also, SC👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: jared p on April 22, 2021, 02:09:24 AM
Emissions regulations are going to dictate more of all future motorbikes harder than anything else regardless of manufacturers plans unfortunately. This ludicrous push to end gasoline engines by 2025/2030/2035 etc stuff, is going to be a gigantic cluster in how it affects motorcycles as well and may well kill the industry as we know it.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: flower_king001 on April 22, 2021, 04:40:57 AM
I suppose I'm a old dinosaur, but I think MG hit their high mark with the Calvin 90th Anniversary bike. My Cali's were my favorite MGs and that one really struck me as "right" in so many ways. Still wish I could've afforded one back in the day. The EV with tubeless rims was pretty damned awesome as well.

I couldn't agree more. I currently have 4 "older" Guzzi's and if I keep them up as I do will out last me. If my EV or Cali ever get too heavy for me to ride I'll just quit, toss in the towel and just go fishing on the bank.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Joliet Jim on April 22, 2021, 09:31:33 AM
if the biggest bike Guzzi had in 2001 was an 850, I'd be riding a Triumph T-bird triple.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kremmen on April 22, 2021, 10:24:37 AM
Yes, bleak.

I was at a local event for the 100th Anniversary a couple of weekends ago (thanks Mario, good fun).

There were 100-ish bikes there. One V85 and a V7, I think. And a single. Every other bike was a big block. And very few riders looked under 50, if any.

You know what they say about languages when there are no longer any native speakers under about 5 years old? Yeah...we're some way past that stage...
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kev m on April 22, 2021, 10:29:50 AM
Yes, bleak.

I was at a local event for the 100th Anniversary a couple of weekends ago (thanks Mario, good fun).

There were 100-ish bikes there. One V85 and a V7, I think. And a single. Every other bike was a big block. And very few riders looked under 50, if any.

You know what they say about languages when there are no longer any native speakers under about 5 years old? Yeah...we're some way past that stage...

Maybe younger riders don't want to hang out with a bunch of old guys anyway.

Maybe the younger riders are riding V85s and V7s and not going to stupid "anniversary" celebrations they don't care about (yet).

Maybe those same younger riders will become older riders and go to the 125th or 150th anniversary celebrations because they will be old and boring then too?!?

Only partially tongue-in-cheek.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Dirk_S on April 22, 2021, 10:31:53 AM
Different times - different cultures. This thread is quickly starting to look like old curmudgeons vs new owners.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 22, 2021, 10:48:00 AM
Different times - different cultures. This thread is quickly starting to look like old curmudgeons vs new owners.

 Yes , and maybe we can avoid going down this path . Just like when most of us were 25 and wanted something different than a 1948 panhead , young folks now might not want what us old guys want .

 Remember when Honda really started making inroads in the American market and older guys were saying crazy shyte like how bleak the future looks?
Well I do  :laugh: E bikes will eventually be the industry standard , no prediction as to when that will happen , but it will . In 20 years future riders who are now 10 years old will simply accept E bikes , that's how things work . I choose to not visit the tyranny of today on future generations , they get to make their own mistakes  :grin:

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 22, 2021, 12:19:58 PM
Iím not sure what direction the future of our beloved two wheel machines will go in the NEAR future. However Iím fairly sure there will be changes coming. I also believe that itís inevitable that E bikes will be the future.
Trying to stay within the bounds of the original topic, our beloved moto Guzzi will be in this future and probably will also at some point produce an E bike. My rational thinking tells me that there will be a gradual change over 2-3 decades of fuel/electric Evolution. I do not believe, in most of our lifetimes, we will be forced to give up our beloved IC powered machines but I do believe in our lifetime we will have the option to do so if desired.
As far as the MG line discussion goes, I stand on my belief that MG is going to have to offer a line of bike to replace the big blocks they have dropped. Maybe not another 1400 or bigger but at least a 1100-1200 powered motor. I also stand firm that I believe past new MG buyers will not participate in future new MG ownership if this does not happen.
This is just an opinion from someone who has only ridden these bikes for 15 years and only owned three of the motors, 1100 hydro, 1100 solid lifter, and the 1400, therefore not near the experience of most of you guys. Therefore a little Lea way would be appreciated 😂👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: OldMojo on April 22, 2021, 12:45:31 PM
Yes, bleak.

I was at a local event for the 100th Anniversary a couple of weekends ago (thanks Mario, good fun).

There were 100-ish bikes there. One V85 and a V7, I think. And a single. Every other bike was a big block. And very few riders looked under 50, if any.

You know what they say about languages when there are no longer any native speakers under about 5 years old? Yeah...we're some way past that stage...

Well, someone is buying all those V7s and V85s. Where are they congregating, if at all?
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Dimitri_Harkov on April 22, 2021, 01:26:45 PM
I have never seen a big block in person in my life.
Neither in the wild, nor on the showroom floor (!).

At least no 'modern' ones, that is (2010+).

But that could have geographical reasons too.
Not much point having a 'straight line cruiser' over here unless you want to have one just to have one ;)

All Guzzis I see are V7s, V9s, V85TTs - with some vintage 70s and maybe early 80s now and then.

And back to topic:
I'm pretty sure Guzzi engines will change a lot soon thanks to emissions.
We will see the water cooled engine very soon and I'm sure some sort of E-Guzzi will be a possibility too.

Cheers,
D.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 22, 2021, 03:56:50 PM
Thanks for the observation Dimitri. This board is majority populated by North Americans, and as such they sometimes forget that the rest of the world isnít exactly the same. 
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 22, 2021, 05:27:10 PM
Thanks for the observation Dimitri. This board is majority populated by North Americans, and as such they sometimes forget that the rest of the world isnít exactly the same.
Good point and something we should consider with others responses if they seem a little strange as it may be just to us in the US👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 22, 2021, 05:35:34 PM
Thanks for the observation Dimitri. This board is majority populated by North Americans, and as such they sometimes forget that the rest of the world isnít exactly the same.

That's one of the things I love about international forums, it helps everyone to have a broader perspective. I'm always intrigued especially on Facebook to see strong Guzzi followings in Thailand and Japan.

But let's be honest, everyone interacts from their personal perspective, and interacts based on their market.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: JC85 on April 22, 2021, 07:38:10 PM
I just sincerely hope they bring back the California line or develop some other cruiser. Taking it back to 1100 would be fine with me. I'm a little guy, so that's plenty of power, imo. If they don't, I may just stick with the two I have and keep them well maintained, but never buy another Guzzi.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 22, 2021, 07:52:34 PM
I just sincerely hope they bring back the California line or develop some other cruiser. Taking it back to 1100 would be fine with me. I'm a little guy, so that's plenty of power, imo. If they don't, I may just stick with the two I have and keep them well maintained, but never buy another Guzzi.
I think there are more folks think this way than the brain trust of Piaggio may realize.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 22, 2021, 09:02:34 PM
Bulldog, all posters need to do I slow down for a moment and remember this is a world wide media, it just takes a little bit extra to not be self absorbed.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 22, 2021, 09:21:48 PM
Gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kremmen on April 23, 2021, 10:42:50 AM
Maybe younger riders don't want to hang out with a bunch of old guys anyway.

Maybe the younger riders are riding V85s and V7s and not going to stupid "anniversary" celebrations they don't care about (yet).

Maybe those same younger riders will become older riders and go to the 125th or 150th anniversary celebrations because they will be old and boring then too?!?

Only partially tongue-in-cheek.

I saw a lot of younger riders at a recent Ducati event.

Look, it's diagnostic. We don't have to like it, but it is.         
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kremmen on April 23, 2021, 10:52:01 AM
Well, someone is buying all those V7s and V85s. Where are they congregating, if at all?

Sure. I used to see several on the road every month around here. We had one parking at work for a while. Just don't seem to see as many the last couple of years, though.

I get the impression these riders aren't being converted into *enthusiasts*. They move on.

100% subjective and I'm not doing as many events these days so possibly a false impression. I hope I'm wrong myself!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: LowRyter on April 23, 2021, 12:22:37 PM
Locally, I've seen several of the new Guzzis rolling around.  The local shop here sells about 1 1/2 bikes a month.   A few times I've been able to talk to some of the riders.  I ask if they are on WG or would be interested in rallies, we have Cedar Vale and Okla Campout. 

I wonder if anyone of them have signed on?  Does WG have a few signups from Central OK in the last year?

Of course Don (local dealer) isn't on this board either and he's pretty e-savvy with his sales and service.  He displays Guzzis at couple bike shows.

Also, if you aren't on WG, chances are you won't hear about Cedar Vale.  So if Dusty wanted a little more out reach, he could make up an e-flyer.  We could print them out and post them at some bike shops.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kev m on April 23, 2021, 12:42:14 PM
I saw a lot of younger riders at a recent Ducati event.

Look, it's diagnostic. We don't have to like it, but it is.         

I don't actually care one way or the other, though I kinda identify more with the group that doesn't really dig these events.

There were more at the Ducati event, great, so analyze the difference.

* What's different about the event - JUST BRAND or are there other differences?
* What's the difference between brands - not just product, but sales figures, especially in area of event.
* Any other factors we are forgetting?!?

I guess I'm saying it's way too easy to have observational bias in something like this and that we've got an N = 1 in this observation.

That's all.

Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 23, 2021, 02:58:41 PM
I don't actually care one way or the other, though I kinda identify more with the group that doesn't really dig these events.

There were more at the Ducati event, great, so analyze the difference.

* What's different about the event - JUST BRAND or are there other differences?
* What's the difference between brands - not just product, but sales figures, especially in area of event.
* Any other factors we are forgetting?!?

I guess I'm saying it's way too easy to have observational bias in something like this and that we've got an N = 1 in this observation.

That's all.
Donít you think maybe Ducati draws more of the younger crowd that MG does? Every time I go to the Dragons Tail I see several younger guys dressed in leathers, and I donít mean the Brando style leather, on the Ducati but Iíve never seen anyone but older guys, like me, on a Moto Guzzi. In fact Iíve never seen a young person on a Guzzi of any style. Why might that be?
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kev m on April 23, 2021, 03:17:53 PM
Donít you think maybe Ducati draws more of the younger crowd that MG does? Every time I go to the Dragons Tail I see several younger guys dressed in leathers, and I donít mean the Brando style leather, on the Ducati but Iíve never seen anyone but older guys, like me, on a Moto Guzzi. In fact Iíve never seen a young person on a Guzzi of any style. Why might that be?

I'm saying I don't know but I wouldn't claim to know from just a couple of anecdotal observations.

BTW, I have seen more Guzzis in the wild, and mostly smallblocks ridden by people younger than me, than I've seen Ducatis.

But I'm not making a conclusion on either brand from it.

As I noted there are a lot more factors at play.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Dirk_S on April 23, 2021, 03:40:05 PM
Donít you think maybe Ducati draws more of the younger crowd that MG does? Every time I go to the Dragons Tail I see several younger guys dressed in leathers, and I donít mean the Brando style leather, on the Ducati but Iíve never seen anyone but older guys, like me, on a Moto Guzzi. In fact Iíve never seen a young person on a Guzzi of any style. Why might that be?

Join the various MG Facebook pages out there. Lots of folks who donít fit the Ďolder, white, American (or Aussie) dudeí demographic are buying Guzzis...

...and asking wonderfully cute questions like:

ďLook at my bike, I just modíed it with a Givi rackĒ... and...

ďCheck out my bike, itís now a scrambler because I put the MG-approved Arrow exhaust onĒ... and possibly the cutest of them all...

ďShould I keep the Racerís seat cowl on? TELL ME WHAT TO DO!Ē

Adorable.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Joliet Jim on April 23, 2021, 04:24:46 PM
Join the various MG Facebook pages out there. Lots of folks who donít fit in the older, white, American (or Aussie) dude demographic are buying Guzzis...

...and asking wonderfully cute questions like:

ďLook at my bike, I just modíed it with a Givi rackĒ... and...

ďCheck out my bike, itís now a scrambler because I put the MG-approved Arrow exhaust onĒ... and possibly the cutest of them all...

ďShould I keep the Racerís seat cowl on? TELL ME WHAT TO DO!Ē

Adorable.

Now that made me smile
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 23, 2021, 05:08:38 PM
What's so funny?  Those are all legitimate questions!   Sometimes I spend a good half hour in front of a mirror, just getting ready to go for a ride.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 23, 2021, 06:26:21 PM
I see V7's in my area every day now, passed 2 just this afternoon. Most everyone I have met on a V7 was 30 or younger. Big blocks tend to be guys 40 and older.

Bumped into a guy a couple weeks ago who was considering moving from his V7 to a BMW 800 ADV. I told him about the V85, and pointed him towards XPS in MD, hope he went that way as he really likes his V7.


(https://i.ibb.co/0211m0T/IMG-20210404-131433384.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0211m0T)
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kremmen on April 23, 2021, 11:45:25 PM
ďShould I keep the Racerís seat cowl on? TELL ME WHAT TO DO!Ē

Adorable.

 :laugh: :grin: :laugh:

Re the bit about the various factors at play: yes. That's exactly my point.

Ducati is a small make but has a decent range of attractive options for various kinds of riding. Guzzi has the smallblock in standard and adventure flavours. It isn't giving people anything to aspire to after that.

Other brands are bringing young riders in with machines that are attractive to them (Guzzi isn't failing at this) *and converting them into enthusiasts* (Guzzi *is* failing at this, or that's what it looks like to me, in my part of the world; YMMV). Maybe September will change that!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kev m on April 24, 2021, 04:10:19 AM
:laugh: :grin: :laugh:

Re the bit about the various factors at play: yes. That's exactly my point.

Ducati is a small make but has a decent range of attractive options for various kinds of riding. Guzzi has the smallblock in standard and adventure flavours. It isn't giving people anything to aspire to after that.

Other brands are bringing young riders in with machines that are attractive to them (Guzzi isn't failing at this) *and converting them into enthusiasts* (Guzzi *is* failing at this, or that's what it looks like to me, in my part of the world; YMMV). Maybe September will change that!

Small? Define small?

Annual production approximately up to 10 TIMES what Guzzi produces (50k+ annually vs ~5k plus annually).

As for not giving something to "aspire to" that's a pretty decent development, and one I'm not yet convinced is permanent. But time will tell.

Your last conclusion is spurious at best and takes more than a few logical leaps without evidence. I'll counter with words like Vespa or Royal Enfield.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kremmen on April 24, 2021, 06:31:29 AM
Yes, Ducati is small. Yamaha makes hundreds of thousands of bikes a year in India alone. Guzzi is tiny, but is now behaving as if it's, I don't know, minuscule? As you say, a recent development but hardly a positive one.

I'll counter with words like "(or that's what it looks like to me, in my part of the world; YMMV). Maybe September will change that!". I did concede already that it's subjective!
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kev m on April 24, 2021, 06:40:35 AM
Yes, Ducati is small. Yamaha makes hundreds of thousands of bikes a year in India alone. Guzzi is tiny,

Ok semantics, but we're not comparing yamaha. I'm just pointing out how even you're subjective opinion is ignoring scale. If the I are 10 times more Ducatis sold over a 10 year period there's going to be significant difference in number of riders in any age group.

And yes you and I agree we'd like to see a larger bike in the lineup, but we disagree on it's necessity. I mean with nothing bigger than a 650, how does Royal Enfield sell 850,000 units a year?!? The problem with Guzzi (IF it actually is one), isn't the engine size.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on April 24, 2021, 07:57:22 AM
Join the various MG Facebook pages out there. Lots of folks who donít fit the Ďolder, white, American (or Aussie) dudeí demographic are buying Guzzis...

...and asking wonderfully cute questions like:

ďLook at my bike, I just modíed it with a Givi rackĒ... and...

ďCheck out my bike, itís now a scrambler because I put the MG-approved Arrow exhaust onĒ... and possibly the cutest of them all...

ďShould I keep the Racerís seat cowl on? TELL ME WHAT TO DO!Ē

Adorable.

Same thing on reddit, lots of young folks on V7's
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 24, 2021, 08:14:23 AM
Even though the v85 TT has been a huge sales success, I rarely see one in the wild. I do however see a V7 almost every time I venture out in my area which is the greater Washington DC Northern Virginia area. I live right off a scenic memorial parkway that attracts a lot of motorcycle traffic. I see at least one if not two V7's. In fact yesterday I saw two.

The encouraging thing for me, is that 90% of the V7 owners that I have encountered and had an opportunity to talk to we're all in their 20'-30s. None of this counts of course the old coots that I know in the area :-)

Contrast that with the fact that I've never seen a Griso a Norge, Breva, EV in the wild, but I have seen a handful of 1400s. I've also seen a few stelvios here and there and an occasional loop frame.

The Army moves me all around the U.S., and in the last 10 years I've lived in Tennessee, Washington state, North Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland. I've also done a fair amount of traveling and rarely if ever see a Moto Guzzi.

So needless to say, I'm very excited and encouraged every time I see one on the road in my area on a daily basis.

I think Moto Guzzi is doing a great job with the small block and the variation in the new V7 or v9 of the 850 shows that they are interested in doing some development.

Even though I would love to see a larger motor closer to 1,000 cc's I think they could further refine and develop the 850 from the v85 TT and adapt it to a more sporting Street bike, and even a sport touring format. The problem of course, is that neither of these segments are selling well.

Right now the two hot segments in motorcycling are the classic standard and ADV style. And Moto Guzzi seems to be hitting all the marks in those two areas. I also think that the relative reliability and high quality of the V7 v9 and v85 are doing great things for the reputation of the mark.


Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Murray on April 24, 2021, 08:48:38 AM
I think there are more folks think this way than the brain trust of Piaggio may realize.

Quiet happy to see the back of the cruisers, I can't think of a type of bike that intrests me less.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 24, 2021, 09:16:23 AM
Hereís something strange to me at this point. Some of you guys say youíre seeing lots of younger guys on the MG, v7 etc. I guess the part of the country and countries you are in determine that as well as dealership availability. As most of you know I live in central NC and in the years Ive been a Guzzi fan and owner Iíve only seen a couple MG bikes in the wild. However I have seen several Ducati bikes ridden by older and younger riders. I think the reason for this is due to little to no exposure to the brand. The first MG I ever saw was an El Dorado, probably an early 80s. It had fishtails and sounded great. The rider was a younger guy who said it was his dads bike. I feel in love with it then and it took 20 years later to get my first on, an 04 California EV, black and chrome. Now hereís my point. The magic that I felt over that first encounter, I donít believe will exist with this new market of the brand. And yes our opinions on this is simply that ďopinionsĒ and this is mine.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kev m on April 24, 2021, 09:45:43 AM
Absolutely regional differences, especially in the lack of a dealership are going to make huge differences, especially in the amount of younger riders who will be less likely to try a brand if there isn't local exposure and support.

A newer rider is much less likely to travel hundreds of miles for a bike. Absolutely.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Vagrant on April 24, 2021, 09:59:12 AM
Guzzi has always been a basically one-engine size company with maybe two slightly different body styles. They have never competed in multiple sizes like the major brands.
In the 1970's it was the 750 that got enlarged to the 850 but just Ambassador, Eldorado, then the T. They grew to the almost 1000 CC's with again maybe two styles. Now we're back down to the small block 750/850 with, that's right two basic styles.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 24, 2021, 10:08:13 AM
Guzzi has always been a basically one-engine size company with maybe two slightly different body styles. They have never competed in multiple sizes like the major brands.
In the 1970's it was the 750 that got enlarged to the 850 but just Ambassador, Eldorado, then the T. They grew to the almost 1000 CC's with again maybe two styles. Now we're back down to the small block 750/850 with, that's right two basic styles.

Not exactly true. Concurrent with the first "big block", there were 50 cc Guzzis, the 125 Stornello, 500 singles (Falcone, Nuovo Falcone) then the "small-blocks" beginning in '76 - the V50. Not to mention all of the various Benelli rebadge "Guzzis".
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 24, 2021, 10:19:38 AM
Hereís something strange to me at this point. Some of you guys say youíre seeing lots of younger guys on the MG, v7 etc. I guess the part of the country and countries you are in determine that as well as dealership availability. As most of you know I live in central NC and in the years Ive been a Guzzi fan and owner Iíve only seen a couple MG bikes in the wild. However I have seen several Ducati bikes ridden by older and younger riders. I think the reason for this is due to little to no exposure to the brand. The first MG I ever saw was an El Dorado, probably an early 80s. It had fishtails and sounded great. The rider was a younger guy who said it was his dads bike. I feel in love with it then and it took 20 years later to get my first on, an 04 California EV, black and chrome. Now hereís my point. The magic that I felt over that first encounter, I donít believe will exist with this new market of the brand. And yes our opinions on this is simply that ďopinionsĒ and this is mine.

No doubt dealer presence makes a difference.

I have 3 dealers in my area, one 10 miles, one 70, one 140.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 24, 2021, 10:43:42 AM
Our perspective in North America is unique from the rest of the planet.   I think the small block was originally imported in 1984, just one year, it didn't sell well, and wasn't seen again over here for two decades.

I read in one of the Guzzi history books, that it was the small block, such as the Nevada, that kept Guzzi from "actually" going out of business.  They sold many many more SB across Europe and else where than they did BB.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 24, 2021, 11:56:55 AM
Our perspective in North America is unique from the rest of the planet.   I think the small block was originally imported in 1984, just one year, it didn't sell well, and wasn't seen again over here for two decades.

I read in one of the Guzzi history books, that it was the small block, such as the Nevada, that kept Guzzi from "actually" going out of business.  They sold many many more SB across Europe and else where than they did BB.

Small-blocks were sold here starting in '78? on through '87 IIRC. V50, V50 II, V50 III, V50 Monza, V65C, SP and Lario.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: bad Chad on April 24, 2021, 06:38:18 PM
Indeed, you are right,  my mistake.   However, my point still stands, they sold quite poorly over here.   Iíd be surprised if the entire run was even 2500 units.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: straycatskip on April 24, 2021, 08:10:23 PM
I think MG's niche in the marketplace is in beautifully designed, simple, easily maintained nostalgia.  If they stick to that, they will do fine.  That is until climate change driven regulations eliminate the internal combustion engine for regular transportation in 15 to 20 years.  We probably won't mind since electric vehicle technology will have advanced several generations.  MG will no longer be able to play the nostalgia card,  however, and that will be the end of that.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: s1120 on April 25, 2021, 07:25:57 AM
Absolutely regional differences, especially in the lack of a dealership are going to make huge differences, especially in the amount of younger riders who will be less likely to try a brand if there isn't local exposure and support.

A newer rider is much less likely to travel hundreds of miles for a bike. Absolutely.

This is it right there..  Your not going to get many of the young, or new riders in a area that just doesn't have the dealer support for that brand. Im my area I have not seen a "modern" SB V7 of any generation in the wild.. nor a V85, but granted that bike is only a few years old at this point. Looking back we have not had any dealers in the area in im thinking almost 20 years, so that makes sense. A young/new rider will mostly be looking to get a bike that they see around.. buddys have, maybe having seen ride by, or stopped at the local gas station.. 

Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Kev m on April 25, 2021, 07:41:21 AM
Even I was shocked one time last year when heading for my in-laws when I noticed a V9 pull through the intersection.

Then I realized we were about 5 miles south of a newer (past 5 years) Guzzi dealer.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: s1120 on April 25, 2021, 07:55:38 AM
Even I was shocked one time last year when heading for my in-laws when I noticed a V9 pull through the intersection.

Then I realized we were about 5 miles south of a newer (past 5 years) Guzzi dealer.

Ya, all I see in any numbers local are people passing through..  Being a small historic area, between the Hudson valley, and the Berkshires, we get a lot of bikes traveling.  Mostly any Guzzis seem to be Norges, or Stelvios.  Kind of makes the most sense for travelers.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 25, 2021, 08:04:32 AM
Marketing and dealer 'presence' in the community is a big piece of the puzzle as well. My local 'Powersports' dealer that carries Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda, Ducati,  Can Am, Polaris, Slingshot with all the water and ATV things is all over the place for advertising, community events, print and radio.

My first move to the DC area was 2005, and my local Guzzi dealer is 1 mile from my In laws, 8 miles to my house, and 2 miles from where I worked (Fort Myer). I drove/rode past the dealership for 2 years.....

I was here 05-07, then back in 2010-2015, and NEVER knew there was a Moto Guzzi/Aprilia dealer. I knew of the shop, but thought all they had were Scooters, because that's all they put out front. I bought my first Guzzi from MI in Seattle, which I actually knew about even though I had never lived on the West Coast. When I moved back to DC in 2018, I did a search for local MG dealers and was shocked to find one .

It is in a terrible location, but they are invisible to the local MC community, so unless you are 'looking' for a Moto Guzzi or Aprilia, you'd never know they were there. MG needs to up their AD game.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 25, 2021, 08:15:35 AM
Marketing and dealer 'presence' in the community is a big piece of the puzzle as well. My local 'Powersports' dealer that carries Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda, Ducati,  Can Am, Polaris, Slingshot with all the water and ATV things is all over the place for advertising, community events, print and radio.

My first move to the DC area was 2005, and my local Guzzi dealer is 1 mile from my In laws, 8 miles to my house, and 2 miles from where I worked (Fort Myer). I drove/rode past the dealership for 2 years.....

I was here 05-07, then back in 2010-2015, and NEVER knew there was a Moto Guzzi/Aprilia dealer. I knew of the shop, but thought all they had were Scooters, because that's all they put out front. I bought my first Guzzi from MI in Seattle, which I actually knew about even though I had never lived on the West Coast. When I moved back to DC in 2018, I did a search for local MG dealers and was shocked to find one .

It is in a terrible location, but they are invisible to the local MC community, so unless you are 'looking' for a Moto Guzzi or Aprilia, you'd never know they were there. MG needs to up their AD game.
I agree that MG needs to ďup their ad gameĒ however when they only offer now very limited options they still only have a small segment of the MC population, therefore even if they had a store on every corner the brand would still be a stale company. The main reason HD has such a large segment of the riding population it due not only to its dealership locations and support but also they offer a bike that the majority of riders would and DO buy.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: AH Fan on April 25, 2021, 10:03:21 AM
I think the prognostications on Guzzi's demise are well overstated.  This is a niche company that makes niche products. They have never been a sales behemoth or had much of a footprint outside esoteric circles of enthusiasts (beside their short stint supplying bikes to CA highway patrol).   Judging from their dealer network and support, it doesnt even seem like they want to move beyond that (in the US at least).

There are plenty of companies who make their hay selling quirky/retro/niche products to those who want them, and dont really offer anything outside that to attract other buyers/demographics. 
For example, I have this espresso machine.. This company is now owned by Iily, but for a long time they were indy and made only retro espresso machines. They eventually got bought out by a big company and became just one part of their product mix (kinda like MG and piaggio)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1y0AAOSwAqhgRoTX/s-l640.jpg)

Is it the best espresso machine on the market? Hell no. Does it have the strongest pump, the best boiler, does it pull the most consistent shots?  No. But it's passable/competitive if operated correctly, it is very basic to use, it has no worthless bells & whistles, no 'convenience features' no timers, no automatic frothing settings. Just an on/off switch and a brew switch and a toggle hi/low/ temp control. Plus is looks funky and retro and its unique.

I think Guzzi fills a similar niche, they sell a few thousand bikes a year, and at least pre-- they were making the parent company money, and were trending in an ok direction.  Not every motorcycle company can be Honda. That's just peachy for me.

As for the big blocks going away, I dont really care. The current gen has very similar engine layout, the 850 in the V85 is almost a strong as my 1100 Breva, and the bike weighs 100# less.
If people wanted more CARC bikes and 1400 cruisers, they probably would have sold instead of languishing on dealer floors.  Moto Guzzi has a strong seller in the v7 that pays homage to the company history, and the v85 and v9 are good variants off that. I dont know what ya'll expect. They arent going to continue making bikes that dont sell.



Agree on so many accounts.    :thumb:
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Alfetta on April 26, 2021, 08:56:40 AM
New Moto GuzzE.

(https://ibb.co/xHLxLwx)
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: sdcr on April 26, 2021, 09:11:58 AM
You should trademark that name :grin:

New Moto GuzzE.

(https://ibb.co/xHLxLwx)
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on April 26, 2021, 09:48:17 AM
Hereís something strange to me at this point. Some of you guys say youíre seeing lots of younger guys on the MG, v7 etc. I guess the part of the country and countries you are in determine that as well as dealership availability. As most of you know I live in central NC and in the years Ive been a Guzzi fan and owner Iíve only seen a couple MG bikes in the wild. However I have seen several Ducati bikes ridden by older and younger riders. I think the reason for this is due to little to no exposure to the brand. The first MG I ever saw was an El Dorado, probably an early 80s. It had fishtails and sounded great. The rider was a younger guy who said it was his dads bike. I feel in love with it then and it took 20 years later to get my first on, an 04 California EV, black and chrome. Now hereís my point. The magic that I felt over that first encounter, I donít believe will exist with this new market of the brand. And yes our opinions on this is simply that ďopinionsĒ and this is mine.

Almost everytime I stop either of my Guzzi's anywhere in NC: gas station, parkway overlook, restaurant, coffee shop, bike night... someone asks me about it. I will say the v65 (which has a modern V7 tank on it and looks pretty much like a cafe'd V7) gets more looks, nods, questions, and 'my uncle had one of those' than the Breva.  So some sort of brand awareness is there.  I don't think this extends to the cruiser guzzi bikes, because if you dont know bikes, they just look like a Harley or a Japanese 'Harley knock-off' from 20ft away.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Moparnut72 on April 26, 2021, 10:08:13 AM
I ride an Audace.  I get asked from time to time "What model of Harley is that?" I have a license plate frame that  says "Not A Harley."
kk
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Dimitri_Harkov on April 26, 2021, 10:16:07 AM
Almost everytime I stop either of my Guzzi's anywhere in NC: gas station, parkway overlook, restaurant, coffee shop, bike night... someone asks me about it. I will say the v65 (which has a modern V7 tank on it and looks pretty much like a cafe'd V7) gets more looks, nods, questions, and 'my uncle had one of those' than the Breva.  So some sort of brand awareness is there.  I don't think this extends to the cruiser guzzi bikes, because if you dont know bikes, they just look like a Harley or a Japanese 'Harley knock-off' from 20ft away.

I guess that's because...

1) It looks like a motorcycle. In contrast to the Breva, Griso, modern 'insects' with two wheels...
Like in: a stereotypical standard motorcycle that in ages past any average Joe could ride.
I guess your Ambo triggers a similar reaction? And...

2) It does NOT look like a Harley and by extension you are not the stereotypical evil criminal that 'usually rides those'... :)

Cheers,
D.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 26, 2021, 07:19:49 PM
I guess that's because...

1) It looks like a motorcycle. In contrast to the Breva, Griso, modern 'insects' with two wheels...
Like in: a stereotypical standard motorcycle that in ages past any average Joe could ride.
I guess your Ambo triggers a similar reaction? And...

2) It does NOT look like a Harley and by extension you are not the stereotypical evil criminal that 'usually rides those'... :)

Cheers,
D.
ďInsect with two wheelsĒ 😂😂😂😂 no more calls folks as WE HAVE A WINNER. I knew there had to be a more accurate description for those creatures😂
Just funning guys, absolutely no offense intended 👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 26, 2021, 09:10:47 PM
Bzzzzzz
 :grin: :evil:


(https://i.ibb.co/MRn0bK0/IMG-20200730-083334141-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MRn0bK0)



(https://i.ibb.co/5WVfbHC/IMG-20200614-141307135.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5WVfbHC)


Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: lucky phil on April 27, 2021, 02:50:21 AM
No one can accurately predict the future...

However, I can GUARANTEE you that I will NOT be owning an "electric Moto Guzzi" in my lifetime... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :shocked: :shocked: :huh: :huh:
Yep, same.

Ciao
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: lucky phil on April 27, 2021, 02:51:45 AM
Never can be a while JJ. There may come a day we canít get gasoline 🤔😂👍
Then I guess I'll need to learn how to make gasoline.

Ciao
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: lucky phil on April 27, 2021, 03:01:09 AM
I think the prognostications on Guzzi's demise are well overstated.  This is a niche company that makes niche products. They have never been a sales behemoth or had much of a footprint outside esoteric circles of enthusiasts (beside their short stint supplying bikes to CA highway patrol).   Judging from their dealer network and support, it doesnt even seem like they want to move beyond that (in the US at least).

There are plenty of companies who make their hay selling quirky/retro/niche products to those who want them, and dont really offer anything outside that to attract other buyers/demographics. 
For example, I have this espresso machine.. This company is now owned by Iily, but for a long time they were indy and made only retro espresso machines. They eventually got bought out by a big company and became just one part of their product mix (kinda like MG and piaggio)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1y0AAOSwAqhgRoTX/s-l640.jpg)

Is it the best espresso machine on the market? Hell no. Does it have the strongest pump, the best boiler, does it pull the most consistent shots?  No. But it's passable/competitive if operated correctly, it is very basic to use, it has no worthless bells & whistles, no 'convenience features' no timers, no automatic frothing settings. Just an on/off switch and a brew switch and a toggle hi/low/ temp control. Plus is looks funky and retro and its unique.

I think Guzzi fills a similar niche, they sell a few thousand bikes a year, and at least pre-- they were making the parent company money, and were trending in an ok direction.  Not every motorcycle company can be Honda. That's just peachy for me.

As for the big blocks going away, I dont really care. The current gen has very similar engine layout, the 850 in the V85 is almost a strong as my 1100 Breva, and the bike weighs 100# less.
If people wanted more CARC bikes and 1400 cruisers, they probably would have sold instead of languishing on dealer floors.  Moto Guzzi has a strong seller in the v7 that pays homage to the company history, and the v85 and v9 are good variants off that. I dont know what ya'll expect. They arent going to continue making bikes that dont sell.

Not bad but not as nice as this. Electra Nivola, Italian of course. I've owned it for 17 years after i retired my Copper and brass La Pavoni pump handle machine. Like anything Italian it requires a little "fettling" from time to time.


(https://i.ibb.co/wwh1FwM/IMG-0613.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wwh1FwM) (https://i.ibb.co/V9X4s8y/IMG-0614.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V9X4s8y) (https://i.ibb.co/WHXgCFh/IMG-0615.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WHXgCFh) (https://i.ibb.co/LNxH7mx/IMG-0616.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LNxH7mx) (https://i.ibb.co/7tG4vpz/IMG-0617.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7tG4vpz) (https://i.ibb.co/NSXk0gJ/IMG-0618.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NSXk0gJ) (https://i.ibb.co/QHGXKD7/IMG-0619.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QHGXKD7) (https://i.ibb.co/XDWDqDn/IMG-0620.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XDWDqDn) (https://i.ibb.co/4g79X9L/IMG-0621.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4g79X9L) (https://i.ibb.co/VH0VhtN/IMG-0622.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VH0VhtN)


Ciao
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Dimitri_Harkov on April 27, 2021, 03:15:06 AM
I think it's save to say that the Italians know how to manufacture very beautiful things.
The design is amazing!

Cheers,
D.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: twowheeladdict on April 27, 2021, 04:58:47 PM
I believe I remember being young more than some on this forum, and my experience is probably similar to young people today that everyone is saying

I don't think most guys just decide to buy a bike on a whim or because it is perceived to be cheap transportation.  I think they have admired motorcycles since the first time they saw them and dream of owning one as soon as they are able.

All of my riding friends and myself never even set foot in a motorcycle dealership until after we bought motorcycles and possibly needed some maintenance part.  We just looked in the want ads and found a bike.  None of us even considered buying new or whether there was dealer support or even a motorcycle mechanic around.  We just wanted a bike so we bought the best one we could afford.

The fact that there weren't any Italian or German or English bike dealers around us also meant that the chances of us coming across a used bike from those brands was pretty slim.  All of my bikes except one were used bikes from private sellers until the kids were all out of the house. 

I didn't buy my first non-Japanese motorcycle until I picked up the 2010 Moto Guzzi V7 Cafe Classic in 2014.  That broke me of reliable Japanese motorcycles and since then I have owned Triumph, Royal Enfield and Harley Davidson. 

I believe young people today that are interested in motorcycles buy whatever they can afford and one day aspire to own Harley, Ducati, BMW, or whatever the premier manufacturer of that genre of bikes is. 
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Joliet Jim on April 27, 2021, 06:07:54 PM
Well looks like the Chicago area lost it's last Guzzi dealer. Future is bleak if they can't keep dealers.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 27, 2021, 06:14:13 PM
Well looks like the Chicago area lost it's last Guzzi dealer. Future is bleak if they can't keep dealers.
Yep JJ thatís the whole point of this topic and I totally agree with you. 👍
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: tommy2cyl on April 27, 2021, 06:33:30 PM
Regarding the discussion on lack of dealers.  I just returned from picking my V 85 up to have a repair done on the malfunctioning cruise control.  I got to thinking about prior posts regarding the lack of dealers and how that would impact potential new buyers if you are not close to a dealer.  This is the recap of travel time I have in my MG V 85 tt purchase (my first MG by the way.  Columbus area to Cincinnati.
1. Drive down and introduce myself to the dealer and see if this is somewhere I would like to purchase a motorcycle. Cadre Cycle.  Check. :thumb:
2. Drive down and test ride the V 85 to make a decision to purchase.  Check. :thumb:
3. Drive down and purchase motorcycle.
4. Drive down for first service.
5. Drive down for cruise control repair.

2 Hours round trip = 20 hours of travel time/minimum.
 
Some salient points:
1. I am semi retired and have the available time.
2. My wife is retired and super willing to either ride along or drop me off like today so I could ride the bike home.  (My Ram ProMaster had a fail today and now is at the dealer so I had to go to plan B and have my wife drive me down.
3. I feel fortunate that Cadre is consistently reviewed as one of a handful of top MG dealers in the country and I like dealing with them.
4. I try to incorporate side trips to parks and explore other areas to hike with my wife on some of these trips to make the trip fun,  and the ride home today in 80 degree weather was just perfect.

In conclusion, it is definitely a time commitment decision to buy one of these bikes for many people who don't have a dealer close by.  If they are a younger buyer who does not probably have that much spare time, will they be inclined to buy a MG when another brand/dealer is much closer?
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: tommy2cyl on April 27, 2021, 06:35:36 PM
Whoops. 4 hour round trip Columbus to Cinci.  4 X 5 trips = 20 hours.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: tommy2cyl on April 27, 2021, 06:49:40 PM
Whoops # 2: Last two events I had to take the bike and drop it off, come back and pick it up when ready.  So actually 2 more round trips which would be 7 X 4 = 28 hours.  Little tired after todays events and didn't proof read before posting.  Sorry.  But you get my point, a lot of time involved.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: twowheeladdict on April 28, 2021, 06:25:47 AM
Whoops # 2: Last two events I had to take the bike and drop it off, come back and pick it up when ready.  So actually 2 more round trips which would be 7 X 4 = 28 hours.  Little tired after todays events and didn't proof read before posting.  Sorry.  But you get my point, a lot of time involved.

Other than a tiny Honda shop, everything is an hour or more away. 

Sloans is 3 hour round trip where I bought my Moto Guzzi.  Triumph, Ducati,  BMW are on the other side of major cities from me so they are out.

Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 28, 2021, 07:13:17 AM
Where Iím at in center NC all the major brands have nice facilities within 30 minutes of my area. There is only one MG dealership, so itís been said but very iffy from my experience, 100 miles away. The one time I tried to use them a few months ago the service for a basic tune up the service manager recommended that I take my bike elsewhere because they had no certification MG mechanic at the time. Therefore very few new Guzzi bike will be sold to either the younger or older riders in NC.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: s1120 on April 29, 2021, 05:19:52 AM
Other than a tiny Honda shop, everything is an hour or more away. 

Sloans is 3 hour round trip where I bought my Moto Guzzi.  Triumph, Ducati,  BMW are on the other side of major cities from me so they are out.

You know Im kind if in the same boat..  Used to be a Yamaha shop right in town, but they closed over the winter. Were good at driving new costumers away anyways..  Other then that I have about a 35-45 min trip to get to any bike dealer, of any brand. Im about 2 hours from Hamlins..  Not too bad really.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Alfetta on April 29, 2021, 08:14:06 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/NZF7fLn/mg-e7.jpg)
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Dimitri_Harkov on April 29, 2021, 09:59:51 AM
 :grin: :thumb:

That's how all great concepts start!

Cheers,
D.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: oldbike54 on April 29, 2021, 11:17:31 AM
 Moto Guzzi will survive as long as there is a market for motorbikes . The company won't grow or shrink much over the next several years .

 Dusty
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 29, 2021, 06:16:11 PM
Not trying to beat a dead horse but I really want to throw this in.
I just returned from an evening ride to the local seafood dinner and rode my little 02 Stone, what a fine motor this is. Unless our beloved company knows something we simply donít know, only a group of fools for leadership would discontinue such a wonderful line of machines.
Sorry If a little blunt and no disrespect intended towards anyoneís opinion on this forum but sometimes something needs to be said and this is one of those times🤔😂😉
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 29, 2021, 06:22:49 PM
Not trying to beat a dead horse but I really want to throw this in.
I just returned from an evening ride to the local seafood dinner and rode my little 02 Stone, what a fine motor this is. Unless our beloved company knows something we similar donít know, only a group of fools for leadership would discontinue such a wonderful line of machines.
Sorry If a little blunt and no disrespect intended towards anyoneís opinion on this forum but sometimes something needs to be said and this is one of those times🤔😂😉

I feel exactly the same way about the abandonment of the CARC series.

I really like what they have done with the small block and the v85 and the new v7 and v9, but in my thinking the 1200 Sport and GRiSO were pinnacle motorcycles.

I think through parts of an engineering and some creativity they could easily put out 850cc Sport and Sport touring motorcycles that would satisfy people like myself. But let's be honest, that market is not very strong, and Moto Guzzi does not have a strong entry due to lower horsepower etc. If you really want to see innovation, just look at another Italian brand... AKA Ducati and look at what they have done with their scrambler line. Should also point out that they have done more than simple paint and decal changes between the various models. They have really fleshed out the scrambler chassis.



I love a new v85 based LeMans or other sport oriented standard, but I'm happy and content with what I have.
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: 80CX100 on April 29, 2021, 10:03:08 PM
Donít you think maybe Ducati draws more of the younger crowd that MG does? Every time I go to the Dragons Tail I see several younger guys dressed in leathers, and I donít mean the Brando style leather, on the Ducati but Iíve never seen anyone but older guys, like me, on a Moto Guzzi. In fact Iíve never seen a young person on a Guzzi of any style. Why might that be?

     I think it's part of the old win on Saturday sell on Monday philosophy; even if Ducati isn't on top of the racing game, they're in it, even if it's only pretend on the street.

     The local, young Ricky racer crowd (including the girls) are into Ducatis, GSXR's, Ninjas, KTMs, Aprillias, CBRRs, even BMWs that riding demographic would never consider a guzzi.

     The local, young retro/hipster/cafe racer riders seem to like the look, vibe and mystique about guzzis, but having one horrible dealer that hates the brand and literally no dealer support kills most of the interest.

      In my area, if you're not set up with a garage, tools, and a willingness to learn to do the work yourself, a guzzi is a hard sell,
Title: Re: What is the future for MG?
Post by: Ncdan on April 30, 2021, 09:29:43 AM
     I think it's part of the old win on Saturday sell on Monday philosophy; even if Ducati isn't on top of the racing game, they're in it, even if it's only pretend on the street.

     The local, young Ricky racer crowd (including the girls) are into Ducatis, GSXR's, Ninjas, KTMs, Aprillias, CBRRs, even BMWs that riding demographic would never consider a guzzi.

     The local, young retro/hipster/cafe racer riders seem to like the look, vibe and mystique about guzzis, but having one horrible dealer that hates the brand and literally no dealer support kills most of the interest.

      In my area, if you're not set up with a garage, tools, and a willingness to learn to do the work yourself, a guzzi is a hard sell,
Same here in my neck of the county. Iím fortunate to have a 40+ year Honda mechanic who worked for a dealership that had MG in the past and he does all my maintenance work and more simply repairs if necessary however no major motor work, which I more than likely wonít ever need.