? For The Harley Riders

[Tom H]

Yes I know this is a Guzzi board, but many own many other brands. I also trust the people here to be able to answer my questions honestly just like the Guzzi questions. So I hope nobody minds me asking.

2007 Dyna Street Bob. This bike has sat for at least a year if not longer and has about 11,000 miles.

Brakes...This is the second bike I have had with disc brakes. My EV can be stopped by just the bar lever with 1 or 2 fingers and that is with only the front right working, remember linked brakes. The Harley needs way more for the front single disc (just a bit better then a Loop with proper adjustment, my 850 will skid the front wheel) and to just about stand on the rear with the factory brakes to feel like you are stopping instead of just slowing down. If I stood on the rear of the EV like I have to for the HD, I'd be skidding down the road.

Is it a poor HD brake system compared to Brembo? My EV has EBC HH pads. Would that fix the HD system? Do I have a problem with the stock system, as in yes it should stop like the EV?

Windshield...I'm thinking of adding one. I've looked around a bit and have a few in mind. Not trying to make it a touring bike, but I think I'd like something there to block the wind. I'm looking at a few designs, not a National Cycle heavy duty police shield like the Loops, but something with about the same height (17" above headlight) and a bit lighter looking. Definetly not a Flyscreen or sport shield. Maybe something from Slipstream or a National Cycle Street Shield style?

Any thoughts on what you have used and maybe a picture or two??

Thank you very much for your time!!!
Tom

[leafman60]

You can convert to twin discs or use this-

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/arlen-ness-15-big-brake-front-rotor-for-harley-dyna-softail-2006-2017

Change your pads to EBC HH.

I prefer the single 15 inch disc.  Works great.

[oldbike54]

 Do the 2007 HD's have those weird Brembo brakes ? If so , watch for the pads dragging due to the very cheap little clip that these brakes use to locate the pads . I have fixed two of these for friends .

 Dusty

[leafman60]

I also like the trigger pull brake lever (not clutch) for aggressive riding.  Easier for the 1-2 finger brake pull-

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/kuryakyn-trigger-clutch-and-brake-lever-for-harley-1996-2017

.

[leafman60]

Do the 2007 HD's have those weird Brembo brakes ? If so , watch for the pads dragging due to the very cheap little clip that these brakes use to locate the pads . I have fixed two of these for friends .

 Dusty

I've never had such an issue.

[oldbike54]

I've never had such an issue.

 Never said they all do it , but I have in fact fixed two that were dragging so bad the rotors were starting to glow . My nephew the HD salesman owned a street glide with the early 4 piston fake Brembos and one of the front brakes basically had the pads stuck to the rotor permanently . The bike was purchased from a Big Dog dealer in OKC, and instead of fixing the problem they had attempted to "fix" the problem by loosening the bolts that held the caliper halves together . My nephew asked one of the mechanics where he worked about the problem , his answer was that Brembo brakes aren't very good , they all do that . Took replacing a 2 dollar clip in the caliper to fix . No idea why Brembo supplied these pieces of junk , must have been a money thing .

 Dusty

[jumpmaster]

Change the pads and clean the rotors thoroughly - have them resurfaced or replaced if they are moderately scored.  In fact, either measure their thickness (or have a shop do it) to see if they are within specs.  If that doesn't result in significant improvement, then master cylinder &/or caliper rebuilds might be in your future.  New brake lines (preferably steel braided) might also help.

Bottom line - the situation you describe now isn't normal on modern stock Harleys I've owned or had friends own.  If the bike is a 2007, has only 11K or so miles, & has sat for at least a year (if the prior owner told you that, it probably sat for at least 2 years), all kinds of nasty things could have happened to the brakes, especially if the bike wasn't stored with care.

[Tom H]

Oldbike54,

The front at least is a 4 piston caliper, I think the rear as well. Still learning this bike. I didn't see anything that said Brembo on it, just the silver HD sticker on the black caliper. Where would I look for the Brembo logo. Also, what was the fix? I found a pdf of the manual, so what part needed changing?

On my first up to 20-25mph passes in my 1/8 mileish alley and learning the brakes. The rotors got hot, hotter than the EV after my freeway ride home. But there was the usual storage rusty color on the rotors when I started, now they look clean. My truck gets about the same rust look since I only drive it once a week. Maybe the pads are not retracting right and are dragging causing brake fade? I did take it on a 20 mile street and freeway ride, the brakes seemed to improve, but still nowhere like the EV. The rotors when checked a few moments after this ride, were not too hot. Not like my rides in the alley.

Jumpmaster,

Thanks for the confirm that they shouldn't feel like they do. It has been non-oped for a year, could have been sitting longer while registered. The PO was a close relative that didn't want to ride anymore. My first Harley, so I have no idea how the brakes should feel.

The rotors have no scoring and only a very very small barely feelable wear ridge at the edge. I will measure them anyway. I'll grab a set of HH pads like my EV has and see if that helps. Also will follow Oldbikes advice if applicable. If that does not improve the braking, a rebuild and replacement of the lines will be next.

Thanks all so far!!!
Tom

[cookiemech]

My two Harleys are Touring models (so dual front disks), but one is a 2007 (does NOT have Brembos) and the other a 2009 (HAS Brembos). The 2007 bike has 49K miles with stock everything (pads, rotors, lines) and stops extremely well. No issues, period. Braking is nice and linear and requires just moderate effort. In contrast, my 2014 Ducati Monster 1200 stops RIGHT NOW! with fairly light effort, which is OK because it has ABS.

The 2009 with Brembo brakes has slightly better braking than the 2007, perhaps in part due to the braided stainless brake lines. It also eats the (thinner) pads at least twice as quickly.

I think that if the braking feels less than good to you, there is an individual problem with the bike. Hot rotors might mean sticking pistons . . .? Assume you have flushed and bled the lines.

[Two Checks]

Do ya actually think HD would put calipers on their bikes with the Brembo name on them?
No, theyvwould have the HD logo.
For that matter the old Kelsey-Hayes brakes had the co logo.

[Kev m]

I would start by flushing/bleeding the lines with fresh fluid, then go from there.

I will say the weight bias on Harleys means the rear brake does contribute more than you would expect, but I generally don't think it should feel as weak as you are describing.

That said, I'm not sure a Dyna with a single 4-pot up front is going to feel as immediate as an EV with duals. The Dyna is a hair heavier than the EV and the EV has double the front brake. I would expect the Dyna to stop roughly like my Jackal with the single front disc.

[leafman60]

In stock form my single disc Dyna worked well.

When I hopped-up everything else, I wanted more of the 1-2 finger front wheel brake strength for hot dog riding in the curves.  I bought a Performance Machine 6-piston caliper and installed it.  The stock H-D (Brembo made) caliper was actually stronger than the PM so I went back to the H-D unit.

I looked at adding a second rotor but when the extra large rotor was introduced I tried it.  I was a little surprised that it came from Ness.  That upgrade did the trick for me and it keeps the front wheel unsprung weight down a little.

For everyday sane riding, however, I would expect that most people would be satisfied with the stock H-D set-up.

On another topic, I HAVE seen people try to change their own pads and really botching up the caliper. It's a simple procedure but some folks can't manage it.  I had a guy complain about his brakes once and when I inspected them he had actually wedged the pads in so that one of them was backwards (!) with the backing plate against the rotor.  I saw a similar thing once with one of the older square pads of a Brembo caliper on a Guzzi!

[jumpmaster]

On another topic, I HAVE seen people try to change their own pads and really botching up the caliper. It's a simple procedure but some folks can't manage it.  I had a guy complain about his brakes once and when I inspected them he had actually wedged the pads in so that one of them was backwards (!) with the backing plate against the rotor.  I saw a similar thing once with one of the older square pads of a Brembo caliper on a Guzzi!

 :1:  Yes, I am one of those knuckleheads, on 2 separate occasions.  First time was on an MGB, when I improperly wedged the old pads to push the caliper pucks back into the caliper before removing the old pads - warped the caliper a little & had a pulsating brake pedal forever after to remind me of my stupidity.  Second time was on a VW GTI when I managed to install one of the pads with the backing plate side against the rotor (!).  It fit fine, but made a funny noise when stopping.  How embarrassing!

[oldbike54]

 Tom , to answer your question , if you split the caliper there will be a weird looking flat spring steel clip between the pads . If it gets bent , and that does happen , the pads will not retract . It will be obvious what the problem is as at least one of the pads will be cocked .

 Oh , I am not 100% certain that the 2007 has the Brembos that aren't badged , but that doesn't really change the issue . My nephew's Street Glide only had 3,000 miles on the odometer , doubt if the pads had ever been changed . Actually I have witnessed this on a Soft tail of some variant that was brand new , the rear rotor was glowing red after about 10 miles . Not saying this is your problem , but would be worth checking , before my nephew's bike's brakes started dragging he reported a loss of braking power .

 Dusty

[leafman60]

:1:  Yes, I am one of those knuckleheads, on 2 separate occasions.  First time was on an MGB, when I improperly wedged the old pads to push the caliper pucks back into the caliper before removing the old pads - warped the caliper a little & had a pulsating brake pedal forever after to remind me of my stupidity.  Second time was on a VW GTI when I managed to install one of the pads with the backing plate side against the rotor (!).  It fit fine, but made a funny noise when stopping.  How embarrassing!

LOL

We all do stupid things.  I'm just not divulging mine!

[Kev m]

Oh , I am not 100% certain that the 2007 has the Brembos that aren't badged , but that doesn't really change the issue . My nephew's Street Glide only had 3,000 miles on the odometer , doubt if the pads had ever been changed . Actually I have witnessed this on a Soft tail of some variant that was brand new , the rear rotor was glowing red after about 10 miles . Not saying this is your problem , but would be worth checking , before my nephew's bike's brakes started dragging he reported a loss of braking power .

 Dusty

If memory serves Harley didn't make a one year blanket change to Brembos. They phased them in, first on FLH models with ABS, then all FLH models, then all BTs or something like that. So it's not as simple as "an 07 __________ has or doesn't have Brembos".

[oldbike54]

If memory serves Harley didn't make a one year blanket change to Brembos. They phased them in, first on FLH models with ABS, then all FLH models, then all BTs or something like that. So it's not as simple as "an 07 __________ has or doesn't have Brembos".

 Isn't that what I said ?

 Dusty

[Kev m]

Isn't that what I said ?

 Dusty

Not even remotely. All I saw was multiple references to a Street Glide (FLH), one to a Softail (FXST or FLST) and some references to a year 2007.

Conversely I'm not saying you are claiming a 2007 Dyna has or doesn't have the Brembos either. I'm just trying to clarify in general that if someone figures out a 2007 Softail or FLH HAS BREMBOS that doesn't mean a 2007 Dyna does too.

[oldbike54]

 Oh 

 Here is what I do remember , the mechanic at the HD dealer said the 2007 Street Glide had Brembo brakes , honestly I never researched it because , well , since there is never gonna be a 2007 Street Glide in my garage it doesn't matter . Memory does tell me what you are saying is correct , HD phased in Brembo brakes , and some weren't badged as such . What I found amusing was his comment about Brembos not being very good brakes and that they all "do that" . My nephew is friends with a guy who was a fairly successful club racer , and the brake subject came up one evening in conversation . Friend told nephew the mechanic was clueless 

 Dusty

[Tom H]

From what I can see without pulling the rear caliper, the pads are getting thin.

I plan to do one thing at a time starting with EBC HH pads in the rear. If that helps the rear, I'll do the front next. Then go through the system as needed.

Rode the bike to work today, the front brake is almost starting to get a 2 finger feel though still a 3 finger to really stop, no where near my EV, but better than it was. The rear still needs a hard push to get it stopping. BTW this is not in the canyons, just so far on the freeway and city streets.

BTW, the rear is not spongy or anything like the brakes need to be bled. You can feel them starting to grab as you push, but until you get near the end of the travel it's just slowing, not stopping.

Thanks again for the help, let you know if the pads helped.

Tom

[oldbike54]

 Need to make a correction . The calipers I referred to earlier are one piece , I did NOT split them , just pulled them away from their mounts . Damn , had to think about that for a bit. 

 Dusty

[bigbikerrick]

Hi Tom, my son had a 2006 street bob that I put quite a few miles on, I think what you describe is "normal" for the brakes on the HD. I compare it to my 2003 california aluminum which is like your EV. The brakes on the Guzzi are much stronger, and have a much better feel.If I were to keep a dyna, I would do theArlen Ness bigger disc up front, and buy the best pads I could for the rear.That being said... I dont miss the dyna one bit ,since my son sold it a few months ago. I hated moving that pig of a bike around in the garage! 
Rick.

[Tom H]

BBR, thanks for the thoughts.

On my ride home today. The front almost seems to be getting a bit better. 2 firm fingers gets the bike stopping. not on a dime, but well.
I also touched the rotors right after getting off the bike to see how warm they were. The finger tap tap touch method, the rear was a tap touch and the front was a tap tap. Front was not super hot, but warmer than you wanted to hold your finger on. Most likely due to the rear not working well.

While on the way home, I stopped at a shop that works on HD to buy a set of HH pads. They didn't have them, had a Drag Specialties sintered set, passed on those this time. The guy looked at my rear brake to confirm I needed them and said the pads need to be replaced and that could be causing my brake problem. When I asked him if the brakes were Brembo, he said no. I should have asked what brand they were but didn't.

I plan to get the HH pads for the rear, then try a good ride again. If it helps the rear, I'll get a set for the front.

I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks all again!!!
Tom

[Kev m]

I believe the BT brakes were all Kelsey-Hayes before they converted to Brembo.

On the Sportster line they changed from 4-pot Kelsey-Hayes to 2-pot Nissins (in 2004 when they changed to the rubbermounts) reportedly to save $10/unit (on then about 50k/year so $500k).

[JJ]

I've had four (4) Big Twin Harley's in my career - 2 FLH-S (Electra Glide Sports) and 2 FLHR (Road Kings).  All four great bikes and I logged >125,000 trouble free miles on them. 

Here I am in 2011 trying out the new FatBoy.  If I bought a new one today, it would be the 2017 Softail Slim.  :1  I would lke another one someday before I get too old...






facebook photo upload

[Kev m]

I've had four (4) Big Twin Harley's in my career - 2 FLH-S (Electra Glide Sports) and 2 FLHR (Road Kings).  All four great bikes and I logged >125,000 trouble free miles on them. 

Up till now I've had 4 Sportsters (two 883s, two 1200s) and one BT (Evo RK).

If I bought a new one today,

Funny you should say that, cause I did.

But not a Softail.

[timonbik]

ROADSTER???

[Kev m]

ROADSTER???

Oh for months I thought it was gonna be....

Alas the heart wants what the heart wants.

It does have Road in the name.

[emoji56]

[oldbike54]

 Toad ? Food ? House ? Weary ? To Singapore ? Oh wait , I know , To perdition .

 Dusty

[Lcarlson]

Road King.