Harley Police bike on CL, love these things

[adaven]

Shovel prices have come way down in the last 10 or so years, most I see are asking 4-5000, most are also heavily "modified". 

Around here, an unmolested (or slightly molested) shovelhead, pre-or post-AMF, sells for a bunch more than that. Earlier this year I was looking for a 82-84 dresser and they started at about 7. And there weren't a lot of them. That price is , I think, pretty fair since most of the mechanical parts, and some of the cosmetic stuff, is generally available aftermarket. So you can always keep it running. Of course, if you are restoring the bike with correct parts, such as Dave's beauty, it would be harder and way more expensive, to get it right.

[brider]

On the other hand, they always seem to need more work and that's something you get to resent as you get older.

   I have experienced this feeling before, but get sucked back to my fantasy world when the object of my resentment is running again. My current '93 Range Rover County LWB is a perfect example. Sometimes I wish it would self-ignite in a ball of fire so I won't be tempted to fix it again.

[brider]

So I went ahead and e-mailed the seller, asking if there were more pics, and if the engine was frozen or if it would kick over, and his response was "Engine will run"

I guess that says a lot about the guy selling it and the possible condition. If a guy can't be bothered to give a potential buyer a little more than that, sorry, screw him.

[cliffrod]

I don't agree.  Given how many people now see every word spoken in a transaction as a potential warranty claim- even on a 40-50 yr old used motorcycle- basic answers like "engine will run" are more realistic until things are further along.   Far too many people expect an Amazon Prime experience every time they play American Picker, especially in c/l land.  Until I know they're more serious than the average caller, it's not worth more. 

Those old shovels need very little to run beyond fuel, spark & compression, especially if it was parked in operable condition.  Clean the carb (& tank if needed or use a temporary tank), good battery & fresh gas and you'll be making noise....

If it's sat for years, it'll probably puke a lake of oil as the dry sump engine barfs out all the oil that leaked past the check ball into the bottom end  Not a problem or serious issue, just HD reality.   That usually sends the uninitiated buyers into a panic, a hissy fit or both.  Those in the know expect it.  we simply put a pan under the bike, pull the plugs, crank it or kick through enough to start the glug, glug, glug going and wait for the oil to start cascading out of the crankcase breather vent tube.    Depending upon the breather arrangement (oem or modified & year of bike) you may be able to pull off the air filter to better direct the oil flow.  After that has sorta stopped, put the plugs back in, check oil & top up if needed and proceed with starting the bike. 

Before you move the bike or ride it, make sure there's no oil on the soles of your boots, the floorboards, the tires, etc   It's very easy to put a foot in it and bust your butt & the bike as soon as you try to move the bike or lift the kickstand, just like it's easy to roll a tire through it and promptly hit the floor or pavement...

[arveno]

So I went ahead and e-mailed the seller, asking if there were more pics, and if the engine was frozen or if it would kick over, and his response was "Engine will run"

I guess that says a lot about the guy selling it and the possible condition. If a guy can't be bothered to give a potential buyer a little more than that, sorry, screw him.

Since he posted a phone number, he might have thought that since you didn’t even bother picking up the phone and call.... you were a tire kicker...

I wouldn’t email back if my AD had my phone number on it .

There are ppl on this world that still like to talk , like we used to...😊
Unless you are just trying to find an excuse not to buy it...

[brider]

There are ppl on this world that still like to talk , like we used to...😊
Unless you are just trying to find an excuse not to buy it...

There are reasons I didn't call. I'm at work, and I've learned not to call an unknown person who may just not shut up when I give every hint that I've heard enough and will call him back later.

In addition to his phone #, I believe there is a box in the CL ad-form you have to click to agree to receive e-mails, so they are fair game, AFAIC.

Sorry, the seller wrote a coherent, well-punctuated ad, and I have every right to a better answer when I ask "Is the engine frozen?" than "Engine will run". I would have more respect for them if they answered "You don't know anything about Harleys, do you? F-off".

Maybe Shovels never freeze solid, and that identified me as an idiot, fair enough, good for him. Not looking for a reason not to buy, I've made many dumb purchases before.

I DO appreciate your rundown on how to prep an old Shovel for starting after a long dormancy, Cliffrod. I'm now not as dumb as I was earlier!

[Rough Edge racing]

  Engine will run says it all...it turns over, has compression, needs ignition and fuel system work...Some sellers barely write on emails and barely talk on the phone..I dislike dealing with those people..But sometimes the seller warms up in person..
  When I recover from these heatlh issues this spring I'm selling all my bikes but my 79 Triumph 750...Add cash to it and buy an 50's Panhead basic bike without bags etc.Doesn't have to be perfect, can even be a light bob job.. Yes I can kick over a stock Pan....Sitting on the wide sprung saddle, the rigid rear suspension gently bouncing the bike, hands on the wide bars,the muted exhaust sound and just motor on down the road.

[ozarquebus]

You can't tell a lot from the picture and overall condition is a factor, but it seems like a fair deal to me if you can get him to come down the customary 4 or 500 dollars, even though the prices on aging hogs seems to be dropping considerably around here in Midwest USA. It is my opinion that they will continue to fall, relative to inflation.
 I agree with what others have said about ease of working on them and high expense to buy parts to restore.
 I have seen pretty good EVO Electraglides going for same price.

[ozarquebus]

I also don't really understand what is driving the prices on AMF bikes unless it is just the trend for every class of bike to appreciate as it first becomes antique-ish. Maybe because panheads are true antiques and priced accordingly, even though it appears they are dropping in value as well relative to inflation. Just like the /5 BMWs were pretty cheap just a few years back and now are premium priced.

[cliffrod]

I DO appreciate your rundown on how to prep an old Shovel for starting after a long dormancy, Cliffrod. I'm now not as dumb as I was earlier!

Hope it is helpful for you or anyone else that might headed into their first old HD.  I wasn't trying to be an ass...

Those engines certainly can freeze or stick.  But they are so basic, it's hard to believe after working on a UJM or many Italian bikes.

Another somewhat common issue for new old iron head HD owners to consider, related to recent flogged-to-death WG topic/thread.... It's relatively easy to blow base gaskets on them if 2 things happen-

1. they are revved too much with lots of vroom-vroom-vroom trying to quicken a warm-up on a stone cold engine on a cold day.  Iron cylinders vs aluminum crankcase halves vs paper base gasket... Gasket will lose.

2.  The cylinder base nuts are improperly torqued. You cant easily fit a regular torque wrench onto those nuts.  Many old & shade tree mechanics just do it by feel.  Some get it right.  Others don't...   You'll need a torque extension or bar and calculate the torque value based upon the length of your torque wrench & extension. Not difficult, just not as convenient as giving a plain box end wrench a tug and saying that's good enough.

In the end, buy what you want.  It's only money.  You can buy a brand new bike and lose money the minute you sign papers & for every year for many years to come.  That makes no sense to me, but That's the price you pay to ride new and be seen on the latest bling.  Or you can buy an old bike that's mostly or fully depreciated and try to not spend the farm on it.  At least you have potential for a little more control over the green bleed and maybe have some fun in the process.

Evo & Shovelhead HD are great bikes as the bikes they are.  They are not disposable UJM bikes.  They are not European bikes.   I've got a shovel, an Evo and a nice iron Sportster, none of which were been flogged to death before I bought them.  Archaic, inefficient, junk, leaky, whatever- those are all accurate descriptions.  I am lucky to have them and enjoy them immensely.   My biggest concern with that Police bike would be crazy high mileage necessitating a major rebuild and extra $$ now unforeseen.  But a friend has over 350k on her shovel and is still piling on the miles.  Just keep fixing it.

Good luck.

[Cam3512]

I can appreciate the older Harley cop bikes.  Had a 2001 Electraglide for a while.  Still rather own and ride this...

[Dave Swanson]

Kev, that's a fine looking FLHP.  I don't believe I have ever seen one in that color. 

[Dave Swanson]

Brider  here you go.   The more I look at the bike the more I like it.   The seat would sell for around $500 on eBay. 

BEFORE



AFTER $$$$$$ 

[twowheeladdict]

I wanted to buy a Harley, but found out that I wasn't qualified, my parents were married.

Then why aren't you on a Honda Cub?  Not happily married?   

[rschrum]

What I meant was my parents weren't brother and sister.

[brider]

The more I look at the bike the more I like it.   

Me, too, and I take back the "screw him" comment, just in case I decide to take a ride out there to see it.

That's a great comparison photo! I have to make clear, though: I am more attracted to the worn patina of the un-restored bike than the restored version, although if I walked by the restored version, I'd stop and drool, no doubt.

This is getting off-topic and way ahead of myself, but what exactly does it feel like to ride an old HD of that vintage? How did they steer? How easy was the clutch to operate? Was it grabby, or generally smooth? Did you need a Popeye forearm to squeeze the lever? How powerful were the brakes? How "brisk" was the acceleration, and since a few of you mentioned cross-country trips, could it easily cruise 75 mph, or was it happier at a lower speed? I'm trying to imagine what it was like for a cop to ride one, in the city, continually clutching/braking, or hitting an entrance ramp in hot pursuit down the highway. I have a hard time imagining cops doing those things on an Eldo, after having ridden Eldos for years and dealing with their grabby clutches and weak brakes, and I thought they were an improvement (maybe just in reliability?} over the Harleys.

When I see an old HD police bike in person, I am just drawn to it.

[Dave Swanson]

My Eldo feels like a crotch rocket compared to my old FLHs.  Shovels in stock trim are slow, vibratory, and the brakes aren't going to impress.  Their sweet spot on the highway is 55 to 65.  Running all day at 75 will lead to their early demise.  Shovel jockeys trying to keep up with the new Evos that could go 80 mph all day long led to many premature overhauls. 

All that being said they are a nice relaxing ride if you are not in a hurry.  They are perfectly suited for granny puttin.  And they look the business!

[Lannis]

Me, too, and I take back the "screw him" comment, just in case I decide to take a ride out there to see it.

That's a great comparison photo! I have to make clear, though: I am more attracted to the worn patina of the un-restored bike than the restored version, although if I walked by the restored version, I'd stop and drool, no doubt.

This is getting off-topic and way ahead of myself, but what exactly does it feel like to ride an old HD of that vintage? How did they steer? How easy was the clutch to operate? Was it grabby, or generally smooth? Did you need a Popeye forearm to squeeze the lever? How powerful were the brakes? How "brisk" was the acceleration, and since a few of you mentioned cross-country trips, could it easily cruise 75 mph, or was it happier at a lower speed? I'm trying to imagine what it was like for a cop to ride one, in the city, continually clutching/braking, or hitting an entrance ramp in hot pursuit down the highway. I have a hard time imagining cops doing those things on an Eldo, after having ridden Eldos for years and dealing with their grabby clutches and weak brakes, and I thought they were an improvement (maybe just in reliability?} over the Harleys.

When I see an old HD police bike in person, I am just drawn to it.

Dave pretty much hit it.   I put considerable miles on a '54, a '65, and a new '84.

They steer smoothly and predictably, and do not have a lot of "lean" clearance.  The weight is low, and they're easy to handle in town or on the highway.
None of my clutches were grabby or hard to pull.   Harley clutches have always been good.
Even the old mechanical rear brakes will lock the rear wheel easily, although that doesn't translate into short stopping distance.  The first disks needed a gorilla grip to stop fast (like the Lockheed on my '75 Norton).    That can be fixed with modded master cylinders and pads.  Allow a little extra space!
They're getting busy at 75 MPH for long distances; you'd want a newer one for that, or a well-balanced and tuned "peach" of a bike.   Although any Knuckle, Pan, or Shovel will go to California and back at 65 and be a lot of fun doing it.
It IS hard to imagine a cop chasing a bad guy on a Panhead or an old Eldo at 100 MPH, but they did it.   Lots of training, lots of the right attitude.   The "mousetrap" clutch assist on the older bikes made the clutch as light as anything you'll find in that class, and they'll pull from idle, so town riding is not bad.
I've replaced the clutch on the side of I-81 on my '54 (I originally put it together wrong); easy to work on.

Lannis

[brider]

Thanks for that description, Lannis, I can feel the vibe!

I looked at a few youtube videos of the '75 vintage, what scares me is how low they idle; one was just barely ticking over....doesn't that put incredible load on the main and low-end bearings? Do they generate sufficient oil pressure at such low idle?

These are rhetorical questions because of course that's how they run, I am just suddenly fascinated. No need to answer, I'm good.