Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Wes Stephens on May 25, 2016, 09:18:47 PM
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Hi to all. I just finished reading the July 16 issue of Rider mag and the mostly complimentary article about the Roamer and Bobber. The engine specs says 90 degree V twin which is correct but then SOHC 2 valves per cyl. SOHC means overhead cam I believe. Sure looks like a pushrod engine to me from the outside. Any comments?
Wes
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Typo Wes , OHV , not SOHC . Common mistake in magazines .
How goes it ?
Dusty
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Hi to all. I just finished reading the July 16 issue of Rider mag and the mostly complimentary article about the Roamer and Bobber. The engine specs says 90 degree V twin which is correct but then SOHC 2 valves per cyl. SOHC means overhead cam I believe. Sure looks like a pushrod engine to me from the outside. Any comments?
Wes
I always laugh when people start quoting bike Jurno's especially with regard to "technical" stuff.
The overwhelming majoritys technical ability ends at inflating the tires.
Ciao
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Thanks for the confirmation that I'm not completely over the hill.
Wes
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Plenty more to come.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/hilly-road-5_zps4j8kv7rk.jpg)
:thumb:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBTlSslJ_dU
My favorite thing is in the Cycle World article where they love the bike but mention "limited cornering clearance"...wha? I had it so far over this morning I could have easily been knee-down. I don't know how far they pushed it to discover the "Limited cornering clearance" but I'm suspecting that may have been a little literary license.
(http://www.motoguzzischweiz.ch/de/)
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What bike has "unlimited" cornering clearance?
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What bike has "unlimited" cornering clearance?
Velocipede ?
Dusty
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:rolleyes:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/group%20left%20lean_zpssiuzgqiq.jpg)
Here is a picture of MotoJournalists preparing for their Moto Guzzi first test ride. To compensate for the torque reaction of the wrong way mounted engine, the new rider must first learn to lean way over even when the engine is not running.
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"My favorite thing is in the Cycle World article where they love the bike but mention "limited cornering clearance"...wha?"
Have you read my report about the test ride I had on the V9 Roamer? The limited cornering clearance was exactly what caught me off guard. It is very inferior to that of my V7 Stone.
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Hi Wes!
You area Ducati man nowadays anyway!
Is that Scrambler still doing you well???
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Hi Wes!
You area Ducati man nowadays anyway!
Is that Scrambler still doing you well???
Last time we visited he was going to sell it .
Dusty
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WHAT!!???
As PYoung says, I thought the Scrambler was the Bee's Knees for Wes!
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WHAT!!???
As PYoung says, I thought the Scrambler was the Bee's Knees for Wes!
We visited at our little Arkansas gathering in Mar and again at Cedar Vale . He said the scrambler just didn't suit him , he may change his mind , but the scrambler is too limited .
Dusty
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I recently took a v9 Roamer out for a test ride. It looks good, fit and finish is everything you have read about. I had to follow the sales guy, so I was restricted to keeping it mostly legalish.
The mid mount pegs are indeed a bit far forward from what I expected. My v65 has what I would call mid mid mount pegs, these I would say are on the slightly forward edge of mid mounts, however I found them very comfortable, from the standpoint of aging knees! Torque was ever present, throttle response what right on, and handling, for as far as I could test, was nice and neutral. It does wick up faster than any other small block I have ridden. I found the motor delightful, I didn't get past 65mph, and that was just for a moment. Seat felt good, but I was only on it for 15 min. Coming off the Big Breva, it felt very light, especially the front end. The entire feel from the front end of the bike is that of a much lighter machine than the big block, perhaps most the small blocks feel about the same? It wasn't bad, it just felt like the front end was much more "busy" dealing with the road. I liked it, I want'ed to like it even more, but at 6'6" 250, I'm just not built to fit it. The one concern that I had was the mid mount pegs, open up my legs enough that I felt my thigh muscles holding my knees into the machine, and if I let go, my legs would start to splay in the wind at higher speed; I suspect my legs would tire from muscle fatigue on long rides?
Over all, I felt it was a very nice motorcycle, just not for me. I do wonder who Guzzi sees as the target market for this bike. I think they will sell to mostly current Guzzi fans, who would appreciate Sportsterish type of ride, but done with Guzzi style and power. Thats not exactly a big demo! For 10K or less, you can get several more powerful, and yet off the beaten path bikes, Ie Scout 60, Victory, Triumph. I hope I'm wrong, but I think it may be to little to late, for the market place.
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We visited at our little Arkansas gathering in Mar and again at Cedar Vale . He said the scrambler just didn't suit him , he may change his mind , but the scrambler is too limited .
Dusty
I hooked him up with a custom-lowered Quota a few years ago and he didn't like that either.
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"Over all, I felt it was a very nice motorcycle, just not for me. I do wonder who Guzzi sees as the target market for this bike. I think they will sell to mostly current Guzzi fans, who would appreciate Sportsterish type of ride, but done with Guzzi style and power. Thats not exactly a big demo! For 10K or less, you can get several more powerful, and yet off the beaten path bikes, Ie Scout 60, Victory, Triumph. I hope I'm wrong, but I think it may be to little to late, for the market place."
I think you're way off. The market for this type of bike is ruling the scene right now. Standard style, modern-retro bikes are shit-hot. Triumph Street Twins and bonnies, Duc Scrambler, Guzzi V-7... these are market leaders, and they'er definitely the "style" of bike that's in demand right now. I think it will do well. The V-7 isn't selling mostly to "existing" Guzzi fans, it's just... selling.
Nah, I think it's going to do well.
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Maybe I am off on this. I'm just pointing out you can buy more for significantly less from Triumph, Victory, or Scout,.
The market is red hot, but is it hot enough for a $10,000 Guzzi?
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Maybe I am off on this. I'm just pointing out you can buy more for significantly less from Triumph, Victory, or Scout,.
The market is red hot, but is it hot enough for a $10,000 Guzzi?
Indian Scout - 1100cc - msrp $11299
Victory Octane - 1200cc - msrp $10,500
Triumph T120 - 1200cc - msrp $11,500
V9 Roamer - 850cc - msrp $9990
V9 Bobber - 850cc - msrp $10,490
Triumph Street - 900cc - msrp $8700
Indian Scout 60 - 1000cc - msrp $8999
I mean, I guess I see where you're going with it.
BUT BUT BUT - the Scout is a pretty different thing from a height/ergonomic perspective.
The Scout AND the T120 are a decent bit heavier, the Scout over 100# heavier, the T120 at least 50#
The Triumph Street is really the CLOSEST competitor and it is still heavier.
Now I think the Street is strikingly nice in person and it is probably a decent value, but it's not making any more hp than the V9, and it's got a chain and more complicated maintenance. Yeah, it's a little cheaper, but within about $1k of the Roamer.
I dunno... the V9 series is sorta in the middle, but maybe a nice middle ground to occupy.
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Small market for a big cafe?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/radical-guzzi-ristretto_zpszldwxjax.jpg)
The Real Deal: Radical Guzzi�s 130 hp cafe racer
http://www.bikeexif.com/radical-guzzi-cafe-racer?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Bikeexif+%28Bike+EXIF%29
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Right, for $500 more you can get a far more powerful bike, that is still different enough to appeal to a guy/girl who doesn't want a Sportster.
The Street Twin, is indeed the closest head on comp, and it's a min of $1300 cheaper.
Like I said, I hope I'm wrong. I like the v9, I hope it sells in big numbers.
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Yeah but I don't know that the Sportster guy is interested in a Scout/Octane, whereas he might be in the V9.
And yeah the Street Twin might be cheaper, but not by much and you get less.
I dunno, but then again I gave up a B11 for my V7. So power isn't everything.
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Is this the official V9 thread now? I've been chasing it all over this forum!
I'm close to pulling the trigger on a V9. Just waiting for them to hit our shores in CA, and for my 9T to sell, which both will probably happen within the next couple weeks.
If the V9 was a better value than the Triumph, then the streets would probably be full of V9's, and then I wouldn't want it. It's an odd mix of desires, wanting Guzzi to be popular enough to stay in business, but only just . . .
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..."you get less." Not sure what you mean, what "less" don't you get?
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"better value" is a moving target, and all depends on what one values.
Me: I'd take a V7 or a V9 with V7 tank.
Jenn: probably prefers the Street Twin.
And since we've already got a V7...
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Kev said, "Yeah but I don't know that the Sportster guy is interested in a Scout/Octane, whereas he might be in the V9."
Maybe, but why would a Sportster guy want to buy a v9? It is significantly less weight, and it has more electronic aids, but does that really mater to the typical Sportster guy?
I think Guzzi is aiming at younger Hipster types as their core demo. I just wonder how many of that demo have 10K to drop on a Guzzi? I guess we will know in a few months.
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Anyway, if I wasn't so dam large, I would buy a v9, I just like them!
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Kev said, "Yeah but I don't know that the Sportster guy is interested in a Scout/Octane, whereas he might be in the V9."
Maybe, but why would a Sportster guy want to buy a v9? It is significantly less weight, and it has more electronic aids, but does that really mater to the typical Sportster guy?
I think Guzzi is aiming at younger Hipster types as their core demo. I just wonder how many of that demo have 10K to drop on a Guzzi? I guess we will know in a few months.
A number of Sportster guys ARE young hipsters.
And most value things like:
Air cooling
Simplicity
Style
That bobber and unique tank shape will appeal to some.
To that end, I SUSPECT most Sportster guys lookin for something a little different would rather the V9 than Scout/Octane.
There's a of animosity towards the Scout at the XL forum, but most Guzzis are well received.
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Anyway, if I wasn't so dam large, I would buy a v9, I just like them!
Me too, but I could anyway cause I'm more compact.
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The Rider article also mentions that the V9's have upsidedown forks, not sure I can see those forks in the photos...small technical issue with their text. Overall they seemed to like the bikes.
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1950's suspension....... :evil:
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"better value" is a moving target, and all depends on what one values.
Somewhere between total value relativism and total value objectivism lies the truth. I was mainly trying to work with the premise of this discussion, which was heading towards saying the Street Twin would finish ahead in most objective metrics. And it would.
But we're only talking about a thousand bucks here or there, not a lot of money when you consider you want to own your bike for several years. And most of these objective metrics make little difference to riders like myself, who are only using maybe 60-70% of torque and HP. For me, "value" is measured as much in how a motorcycle makes you feel both on and off it. Which definitely propels us towards almost total relativism.
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No dealers, no sales. The hot market buyers don't want to buy bikes from dealer 500 miles away, they want to go local and ride the thing away.
SF Bay Area is probably a good market for the V9s. Where can you go buy one? No where. Scramblers and other brands are selling. Can't sell what isn't available and riding season out here has been here for over 2 months. There are a cpuple of V7s that have been sitting but it's the Scramblers that get pushed outside to sell...and they do along with Triumphs.
Can't blame the dealers, they floor what sells best.
If you have a V7 and want to trade up so to speak what happens? There should be an upgrade path and start the buying and selling.
Got a Ducati, Triumph to trade? Sure. A Moto Guzzi? Ah, maybe you should sell it privately...
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Why could dealers on the west coast not get v9s?
They have them in Washington state, thats a costal state right?
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There's none in California yet. I suspect, it's an emissions certification thing, since CA always plays by its own rules. I've heard from two Bay Area dealers that they'll be here early to mid June.
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Small market for a big cafe?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/radical-guzzi-ristretto_zpszldwxjax.jpg)
The Real Deal: Radical Guzzi�s 130 hp cafe racer
http://www.bikeexif.com/radical-guzzi-cafe-racer?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Bikeexif+%28Bike+EXIF%29
130 HP? Please! How tiny are the horses? Or do these people have some sort of *Overide* button for the laws of physics? I hate this sort of BS yet morons lap it up....
Pete
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Shetland Ponies :laugh:
Dusty
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The bike has no front mudguard and the rider is wearing canvas shoes!
The defence rests y'reonnner!
Pete
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That's a GREAT wheelie photo! :cool:
My quick read is that new V9 Roamer / Bobber will sell well, overall, especially in Europe.
I also like the new Stornello and the behemoth "Flying Fortress."
For a company that has been "going out of business" since 1921" - - you have to give them credit for continuing to launch new models and move forward!! :thumb: :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/i30LrF/2017_moto_guzzi_v7_ii_stornello_the_stylish_scrambler_live_photos_102419_1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i30LrF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hHUryv/Moto_Guzzi_MGX_21_Flying_For.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hHUryv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iKJeka/original_1611_2849_p1150864.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iKJeka)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/m26ArF/original_1617_2726_whitev9roamer2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/m26ArF)
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They are 'Moving forward' in the same way that I would be if I chose to go and live in a cave on the edge of the Great Rift Valley and get my food by bashing things over the head with an antelope's thigh bone.
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And where are all the 2V hemi 750's from the 80's ? Blow'd up. I'm thinking it's all going around again. Some crap never changes, like the rear main crank wear pads that are going bad, just like the 80's. Same crap gets the same results.
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They are 'Moving forward' in the same way that I would be if I chose to go and live in a cave on the edge of the Great Rift Valley and get my food by bashing things over the head with an antelope's thigh bone.
Too funny!! :grin: :cool: :thumb: I always knew you had a little Neanderthal in you!! (LOL) :boozing:
Just trying to be a little positive here!! (LOL)
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And where are all the 2V hemi 750's from the 80's ? Blow'd up. I'm thinking it's all going around again. Some crap never changes, like the rear main crank wear pads that are going bad, just like the 80's. Same crap gets the same results.
Unfortunately, with Moto Guzzi, "Pray through Carlo...and your bike shall be healed" does'nt really work! (LOL) :laugh: :grin:
Things could be much worse...like, my timing gears / oil pump could FAIL on my poor Centauro...and then I would have a 550 pound paperweight!!! (Yes, I have ALL the upgrade parts..and now just to install them!)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mJiC5a/IMG_3410.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mJiC5a)
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Things could be much worse...like, my timing gears / oil pump could FAIL on my poor Centauro...and then I would have a 550 pound paperweight!!! (Yes, I have ALL the upgrade parts..and now just to install them!)
John, which part route did you take and are you going to install them?
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The V7 has proven reliable. Is there any reason to think the V9 will be less so?
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As a dealer tech wrench I see the bad, some real bad V7's. At least they beefed up the drive train which has been long overdo. Got to have faith, they are simulated good on some computer program somewhere, maybe in the bowels of the old building deemed 'Holy' .
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They are 'Moving forward' in the same way that I would be if I chose to go and live in a cave on the edge of the Great Rift Valley and get my food by bashing things over the head with an antelope's thigh bone.
I thought you did that anyway Pete. :huh:
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I thought you did that anyway Pete. :huh:
My sister has been an anthropologist/primatologist in the Rift Valley for the past 35 years. I'll ask her if she's run across Pete.
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John, which part route did you take and are you going to install them?
@ blackcat - Custom made steel timing gear, new oil pump, brass bushing, new head gaskets, all new timing belts, Will Creedon chip - - and I will have a local, AZ Guzzi engine tech / mechanic, (Tom Hull in Mesa), who has years of experience rebuilding Daytona race motors install everything!! :thumb: :cool:
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That "unique tank" is the reason the V9 isn't on my radar. It's too damn small.
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@ blackcat - Custom made steel timing gear, new oil pump, brass bushing, new head gaskets, all new timing belts, Will Creedon chip - - and I will have a local, AZ Guzzi engine tech / mechanic, (Tom Hull in Mesa), who has years of experience rebuilding Daytona race motors install everything!! :thumb: :cool:
John, Thanks. A bit of a ride for me to take the Daytona to AZ. Fortunately, my bike has low miles so I will figure this out in the near future. Chuck says, to just follow the directions in the book, but it looks a bit more difficult for my level of incompetence.
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continuing to launch new models and move forward!! :thumb: :cool:
Launch new models yes they are doing that, moving forward, not so much.
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Chad - Where did you test ride the Roamer? The specs on it seem to check all the boxes for me. I would love to try one out on the road.
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Windy City Triumph in St. Charles.
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Progress is in the eye of the beholder. Piaggio saw good sales with the V7 and the California, with the CARC models, not so much. That tells them to upgrade the V7 like and refresh it to keep sales growing there; same with the California platform.
Kinda like the movie industry, keep rehashing the formula that works as it pays the bills.
For those that were hoping for a different path can only hope that with increases sales in the V9 and California lines will give Moto Guzzi some money to risk it on models that are more focused to spirited riding. Sounds like Piaggio wants to make some money first. Can't really fault them for that.
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Thanks, Chad!
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The styling reminds me of the 850-T.
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The styling reminds me of the 850-T.
Yes, the frame is sort of similar to that of the 850-T, T3, etc., especially since its top tubes now go straight all the way back instead of flipping up for the passenger seat. (It is of course an iteration of the old small block frame.)
The two horizontal rails under the gas tank are also similar. I wonder if it would be hard to mount a T gas tank on one for some serious range. (24 liters = 6.34 U.S. gallons)
Then it would REALLY look like a T.
EDIT: Wait. Didn't the old V50 have a tank very similar to the T's? Was it the same? If so, the V9 can probably take one with ease.