Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: cubswin on August 08, 2017, 05:09:23 PM

Title: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 08, 2017, 05:09:23 PM
So my key on my 2006 Breva 1100 started to get difficult to remove after I turned it off. Then, a few weeks later the handlebars would stay locked even after I put the key in and turned it on. I'd just wiggle the handlebars a little bit and then they'd unlock.

Yep, I'm am idiot. I kept riding it thinking it was just an issue when I first turned it on. It wasn't. Unfortunately, when trying to take a right turn today, my handlebars locked and wouldn't turn. Thankfully I was only going a couple of miles an hour, but 500+ pounds on your leg is pretty uncomfortable.

Has anyone else ever had their steering column lock like that?

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: guzzisteve on August 08, 2017, 05:42:53 PM
Wow, you are lucky. Never heard of the locks hanging up. Something to look at on older bikes.

Welcome to the Forum
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: normzone on August 08, 2017, 06:46:21 PM
My god, [cubswin], that's one hell of a reason to join the forum, and write your first post ....

So let me extend the throttle-cramped hand of welcome to you. Please let us know what you determine to be the root cause(s) and your fix.
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 08, 2017, 09:47:25 PM
I feel incredibly lucky. I was leaving work downtown Chicago for a ride out to the burbs to meet some friends.

The dealer (where I bought it, but not a Guzzi dealer) thinks that the fork locking mechanism just  malfunctioned. They said they've seen it happen before, but never when someone is actually riding. Usually happens when it's parked and won't unlock at all. I'm an idiot for riding it when it had signs of an issue.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: Bisbonian on August 08, 2017, 10:57:53 PM
I've never had it happen that way.
I did have a problem with the key refusing to turn. I tried spraying WD-40 down the keyhole and sometimes that seemed to free it up.

Eventually I came across some DuPont teflon spray and sprayed some of that down the keyhole. I haven't had any problem since.
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 09, 2017, 12:04:34 AM
My god, [cubswin], that's one hell of a reason to join the forum, and write your first post ....

So let me extend the throttle-cramped hand of welcome to you. Please let us know what you determine to be the root cause(s) and your fix.
And thank you for the warm welcome!

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: pete roper on August 09, 2017, 12:08:35 AM
That's a weird one. There is an indexing mechanism within the switch designed to prevent exactly that. Does the key swivel freely with no indexation at the stop points? If so one has to think the indexation mechanism is kaput!

Pete
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 09, 2017, 12:24:26 AM
I dont think that the key was swiveling freely, but it had a hard time getting to the point where it would lock the forks. Then, when I would turn it on, the forks would stay locked and I'd have to shake the handlebars back and forth until they'd making a clicking sound and unlock.

One of the times when I was shaking them a little thin, round piece of metal came out of the front (a little smaller than a dime with Moto Guzzi stamped on it). I sheered it off. I thought "problem solved." I'm an idiot.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: rodekyll on August 09, 2017, 01:13:04 AM
Never heard of that, and glad you survived it!

Did you buy the bike new?  Where?
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: Tom H on August 09, 2017, 01:37:06 AM
Ummm....I trying to say this nicely. Don't ride it until the lock is fixed. Nobody has mentioned this so far.

I have never worked on the fork lock on any of my bikes. From what I understand, it's a pin that goes into a hole or against a stop on the fork.

If yours is not working correctly, especially since a part has come out, it "MAY" jam at a turn where your against the fork stop, like you have already had. BUT..... it "MAY" be able to wedge itself in any position so that you can not steer.

I wish I had an answer on how to fix it. Maybe one will come along shortly. If you are not able to fix the problem, take it to a shop that knows a bit about Guzzi and have them fix it.

If you want to have a go at it, maybe you can find manual for it here:
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_misc.html

Be safe, get it fixed before you ride it again!


Tom
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 09, 2017, 07:59:57 AM
Never heard of that, and glad you survived it!

Did you buy the bike new?  Where?
Thanks. 2006, bought about a month ago from a Triumph/Ducati dealer in Chicago.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 09, 2017, 08:04:30 AM
Ummm....I trying to say this nicely. Don't ride it until the lock is fixed. Nobody has mentioned this so far.

I have never worked on the fork lock on any of my bikes. From what I understand, it's a pin that goes into a hole or against a stop on the fork.

If yours is not working correctly, especially since a part has come out, it "MAY" jam at a turn where your against the fork stop, like you have already had. BUT..... it "MAY" be able to wedge itself in any position so that you can not steer.

I wish I had an answer on how to fix it. Maybe one will come along shortly. If you are not able to fix the problem, take it to a shop that knows a bit about Guzzi and have them fix it.

If you want to have a go at it, maybe you can find manual for it here:
http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_misc.html

Be safe, get it fixed before you ride it again!


Tom
Thanks Tom. I had it towed to the place where I bought it (Triumph/Ducati/vintage BMW dealer in Chicago). If they can't fix it (and I trust them to tell me that), they'll tow it to an actual Moto Guzzi dealer in the suburbs. They've serviced Guzzis before, but typical maintenance stuff only I think. I'm not even pushing it until it gets a clean bill of health.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: Scott of the Sahara on August 09, 2017, 08:43:06 AM
I have an '08 Norge that I bought new in '010. I have NEVER locked the forks. I do not even know how to do that.
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 09, 2017, 08:47:14 AM
I have an '08 Norge that I bought new in '010. I have NEVER locked the forks. I do not even know how to do that.
At least on my Breva, all you have to do is twist the key further counterclockwise. First click is off. First click past off locks the forks. Second click locks forks with the lights on.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: rodekyll on August 09, 2017, 02:43:31 PM
Thanks. 2006, bought about a month ago from a Triumph/Ducati dealer in Chicago.

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I don't think there is a "natural" way this failure can happen.  I'd be curious about the bike's history.  I think someone has been tinkering with stuff in that area.  Has it ever been stolen or impounded?
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: malik on August 09, 2017, 03:51:02 PM
I've never liked using the fork locks in the ignition - I get concerned when the key gets harder to turn & stop doing it again - I have a vague memory way back in the mists of time that the fork lock on one or two of my bikes may have seized & caused problems. Of course, NOT using it at all encourages the mechanism to gum up with disuse.

Note that when the ignition failed on the V7C, there wasn't a spare ignition in the country, but there were lock sets - and the price of the lock set wasn't much more than the ignition alone, with the added advantage of one key fits all. So if you have problems getting a new switch, ask about a lock set.

Good luck, and keep us informed.
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: Pisano on August 09, 2017, 06:53:22 PM
Just yesterday i had difficulty  unlocking the griso. After i managed to unlock it and turn the bars a bit i heard a loud click sound ????

 I then turned a few times again without issue and also locks fine now. I dont know.. Makes me nervous.
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 09, 2017, 06:55:42 PM
I don't think there is a "natural" way this failure can happen.  I'd be curious about the bike's history.  I think someone has been tinkering with stuff in that area.  Has it ever been stolen or impounded?
Not to my knowledge. If memory serves me correctly,  it was a one owner bike taken in on trade. Older gentleman wanted something smaller and lighter.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 09, 2017, 06:59:50 PM
Just yesterday i had difficulty  unlocking the griso. After i managed to unlock it and turn the bars a bit i heard a loud click sound ????

 I then turned a few times again without issue and also locks fine now. I dont know.. Makes me nervous.
I can't stress this enough...TAKE IT IN! That's exactly how my Breva started acting up. The clicks got to the point where the folks were stuck and I had to wiggle them pretty hard to unlock them.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 09, 2017, 07:00:58 PM
I've never liked using the fork locks in the ignition - I get concerned when the key gets harder to turn & stop doing it again - I have a vague memory way back in the mists of time that the fork lock on one or two of my bikes may have seized & caused problems. Of course, NOT using it at all encourages the mechanism to gum up with disuse.

Note that when the ignition failed on the V7C, there wasn't a spare ignition in the country, but there were lock sets - and the price of the lock set wasn't much more than the ignition alone, with the added advantage of one key fits all. So if you have problems getting a new switch, ask about a lock set.

Good luck, and keep us informed.
Thanks and will do.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: Chesterfield on August 09, 2017, 07:11:41 PM
I feel incredibly lucky. I'm an idiot for riding it when it had signs of an issue.

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You are thankfully and yes.
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 16, 2017, 10:30:16 PM
So the dealer confirmed that the fork locking mechanism engaged while I was riding it. Several parts that need to be replaced to make it rideable again, including the lock set, fork plate, rear brake lever, etc. They also included lots of parts that just had cosmetic damage (like the engine guard, foot pegs, gas tank, etc.).  I asked them to separate the parts and labor into those two categories.

Waiting on the final tally now as I hadn't planned on running it through insurance. The initial estimate with all the cosmetic parts was more than what the bike is worth ($5k+). Debating on putting it through as a claim...guess it depends on the final tally.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: organfixsing on August 17, 2017, 06:42:35 AM
I don't know if I am on the right trac, but, you should never lubricate locks with an oil (WD40 etc) because they hold dust and clog up. The only lubricant you should use is graphite powder. This was an earlier reccomendation but now you could use a teflon spray which is much cleaner, say a 3-in-one tefln spray. There is another which I seem to access on OZ and that is 'Lockeze' which is a graphite spray in a evaporative carrier liquid.
Cheers
Brian :grin:
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: pete roper on August 17, 2017, 07:01:46 AM
I have to ask? Have you any idea, or even given a thought to how the steering lock mechanism works?

Pete
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: frans belgium on August 17, 2017, 10:56:30 AM
Only a few days ago, I had problems with the key of my B11.  Had to wiggle the bars to get it to the ignition position (though it was NOT in lock position).
Been riding Breva for more than 6 years without any issues, so I thought: Oh well.... 
After reading this, I'm getting anxious  :sad:
Will definitely spray some graphite in the key hole !
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 17, 2017, 11:16:36 AM
I have to ask? Have you any idea, or even given a thought to how the steering lock mechanism works?

Pete
If I understand it correctly, it's a pin that drops down in a hole in the fork when engaged. They haven't taken it completely apart yet, but they could see things that are bent and suspect the pin may have sheered off somehow and dropped down. They twisted the handlebars back and forth and you could hear that it was notchy.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: bad Chad on August 17, 2017, 02:06:41 PM
Fork plate and rear brake lever?   What would any of that have to do with the fork lock?  If you don't have a warranty on it, call Rosefarm Classics in Woodstock ask if they can look at it, they Will know how to fix it!
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: guzzisteve on August 17, 2017, 02:35:48 PM
OR you could call MG cycle and get a new assembly.

Part # GU05782530-- $245 or thereabouts     
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: bad Chad on August 17, 2017, 03:57:38 PM
Fork plate and rear brake lever?   What would any of that have to do with the fork lock?  If you don't have a warranty on it, call Rosefarm Classics in Woodstock ask if they can look at it, they Will know how to fix it!
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: guzzisteve on August 17, 2017, 04:41:05 PM
If you are in Chicago you could call Joe the Guzzi Doctor, he knows the bike lock system.
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 17, 2017, 05:07:04 PM
Fork plate and rear brake lever?   What would any of that have to do with the fork lock?  If you don't have a warranty on it, call Rosefarm Classics in Woodstock ask if they can look at it, they Will know how to fix it!
Thanks for the guidance. Motoworks actually has a mechanic onsite that used to work at either the dealer in Woodstock or at St Charles (he told me but I can't remember). He thinks he actually worked on my bike out there as the service code he entered for the keys was one he used to use.

The rear brake lever was bent when the bike went down, so that has to be replaced. There were several parts they listed that needed to be replaced tied to the locking mechanism and the forks. They said things were either broken or bent based on this or an earlier fall.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: Tom H on August 17, 2017, 05:36:01 PM
I have been thinking about this since I use the fork lock on one of my bikes....

When YOU use the fork lock, with the forks turned, do YOU just turn the key hard to get it to lock? Or do you firmly but gently turn the key and move the bars a little to center the lock pin to the hole? I don't know for sure it's a pin and a hole, but you get the idea.

I ask because some bikes may want the forks on the fork stop for the pin to engage, but two of my bikes want to be just off the fork stop. If it's against the stop, there is almost not way to get the lock to work.

Just a thought,
Tom
Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 17, 2017, 09:08:55 PM
I have been thinking about this since I use the fork lock on one of my bikes....

When YOU use the fork lock, with the forks turned, do YOU just turn the key hard to get it to lock? Or do you firmly but gently turn the key and move the bars a little to center the lock pin to the hole? I don't know for sure it's a pin and a hole, but you get the idea.

I ask because some bikes may want the forks on the fork stop for the pin to engage, but two of my bikes want to be just off the fork stop. If it's against the stop, there is almost not way to get the lock to work.

Just a thought,
Tom
Seems like it was really easy to engage the fork lock when I got it a couple of months ago, then it got progressively more difficult to turn the key. I had to wiggle the handlebars to get it to engage. Then, it didn't want to disengage.

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Title: Re: Has anyone had this happen?
Post by: cubswin on August 22, 2017, 05:46:13 PM
So it's the end of the story. Progressive just totaled it. Almost $8k in damage including parts that needed to be replaced purely for cosmetic reasons. They suspect that the bike may have gone down before I owned it since some parts in the front were bent. Unfortunately, they still don't know why the front fork lock engaged.

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