Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: AJ Huff on March 19, 2021, 10:24:56 PM

Title: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: AJ Huff on March 19, 2021, 10:24:56 PM
But I need to replace the battery in my California. I had an Odyssey PC545 in there. It's been over 10 years since I've bought a battery. Is Odyssey still the way to go? Has much changed in the last 10 years? Are there better options?

Thanks,

-AJ
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Scout63 on March 19, 2021, 10:55:10 PM
There are people on the forum who know much more than I do, but Iíve had great success with Shorai LI batteries. They are very light, hold a charge forever and have no acid in them.  I canít use it with certain charging systems though, like my /5 EME system.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on March 19, 2021, 11:44:13 PM
I wouldn't go past an AGM battery, they may be heavy but on a heavy bike like yours they make little difference.
https://www.yuasabatteries.com/find-a-dealer/
I think they recommend YTX15L-BS but I would put a larger one in if you have the room.
Are you sure it's the battery though? If its failing to crank it could well be "Startus Interuptus" due to a dirty ignition switch.
Clean all the battery connections and the ground point first just to be sure, scrape the battery terminals and apply some Vaseline
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2002_Stone.gif
You can test the battery and the starter by unplugging the start relay and jumping from the relay base 87 terminal (furtherest from the 2 small ones)  to touch on battery Positive.
This bypasses the ignition switch and a bunch of small wires to give the solenoid the 50 Amps it deserves. Warning, make sure the bike is in Neutral and pull the clutch for safety
Don't turn the key On, you are just testing the starter.
The ignition switches on this era Guzzi is quite easy to clean, the contact block is held on by two Phillips screws underneath, the switch block comes off leaving the lock behind,
Open up the block and wipe out the old, hard grease and refresh with Vaseline, you should really drop off the battery Negative terminal before doing that.
You might be surprised to find the bike runs better with a clean switch.
If it were me I would cut the Blue/Black wire on terminal 30 of the Start relay and wire it through a 20 Amp fuse direct from the battery (assuming you dont have an MPH kit) Sorry it's a bit trickier on this bike


I have never had an Odyssey battery but they do have a good reputation
I wouldn't go under 16AH though
I think this is the one they recommend for your California a skookum 20 AH
https://odysseybatteries.com/pc925l.htm
Check the terminal layout.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: kingoffleece on March 20, 2021, 02:43:48 AM
You got 10 years out of it-assuming no other issue.  Good enough for me.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on March 20, 2021, 04:32:18 AM
You got 10 years out of it-assuming no other issue.  Good enough for me.
True but the grease in the switch will be as hard as hell if it's never been attended to.
I wonder if MPH has ever made a fix for one of these bikes, the normal fix won't work because the headlight relay would turn on when the key is off.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Zoom Zoom on March 20, 2021, 07:52:13 AM
But I need to replace the battery in my California. I had an Odyssey PC545 in there. It's been over 10 years since I've bought a battery. Is Odyssey still the way to go? Has much changed in the last 10 years? Are there better options?

Thanks,

-AJ

First, I have had nothing but good from Odyssey. If they make one that fits my application, that is what I will buy. As for your bike, the 545 is a smaller replacement for what it actually could fit. The correct one would be the 925L or LMJ. The L is the terminals on the correct ends. The MJ is "metal jacket". They both fit, no problem. Your 545 does leave you a little more space though.

John Henry
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: LaMojo on March 20, 2021, 08:04:44 AM
I only consider an Odyssey battery mainly because my bikes may sit for weeks/months (no battery tenders) and last up to 10 years.  Thatís something I donít have to maintain or worry about on the road.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Wayne Orwig on March 20, 2021, 08:25:25 AM
Get the Odyssey IMHO. My old California got an Odyssey AGM battery put in it long ago. I sold it with that battery, and years later the new own still was using that battery. It was near or over 20 years old.

I used to have bad luck with Yuasa batteries. When the stock EV AGM battery went bad after only 12 years, the day before a trip, a local shop had a Yuasa AGM battery. It is called an AGM, but they had to add acid to activate it.  :violent1:  But that is still in the EV and doing fine after about 5 years. (don't use those laying down, they leak).



Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: bsanorton on March 20, 2021, 08:45:31 AM
My 2001 V11 sport arrived with a Odyssey battery, dead on arrival. It had a battery tender pigtail on it so not knowing I charged it overnight using my battery tender that I have had for over 15 years and rotate between bikes. Haven't had a problem since, fires right up, BUT after researching apparently I need a charger that will do AGM batteries and one that will do a deep charge for the odyssey. If I wasn't so curious about this battery (never had an odyssey, can barely spell it) I would go with my usual Yuasa or Interstate. I normally get a good 4 or 5 years in the Florida heat with a normal sealed battery. So now I'm on the lookout for a charger for the Odyssey and they are pricey, especially the Odyssey brand. 
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: AJ Huff on March 20, 2021, 10:55:32 AM
Thanks guys. I'm pretty sure the battery is dead. It had a good life. I do have a charger for AGM batteries that I bought that was listed on Odyssey's website. It will charge for a little bit then flash Bad Bat.

Sounds like Odyssey is still the way to go. I never had a problem with the PC545 but I can look into moving up to the 925.

Thanks again,

-AJ
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: oldbike54 on March 20, 2021, 11:00:03 AM
 Only 10 years ? They just don't make anything like they usta  :grin:

 Dusty
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Tom H on March 20, 2021, 11:04:26 AM
My '04 has the evap system box next to the battery. Does yours? I have to remove it or just stick with the smaller battery.

Odyssey or Motobat are good. I think Motobat claims a few more cca if that matters to you.

Tom
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: kingoffleece on March 20, 2021, 11:34:08 AM
This is the one you may want.  Handles any battery you may have for anything powered with a motor.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-iXc8AWiW6wo/p_088US7000/CTEK-MULTI-US-7000-Battery-Charger.html

Recommended by Odyssey-use the snowflake setting for AGM battery.  It's a different output-a bit higher that a lead/acid battery which the AGM construction likes.

HERE: Cold Weather Mode: 14.7 Volts--This mode is recommended for use at temperatures at lower than 41į F (5į C). It is also recommended for many AGM batteries like Optima and Odyssey
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: bsanorton on March 20, 2021, 01:44:26 PM
i was looking at CTEK. Here is the Odyssey approved list, Docc from the V11 web site posted it for me:
 https://www.odysseybattery.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/ODYSSEY_approved_12V_chargers.pdf

But I still can't make up my mind which to get, so many choices
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: pete mcgee on March 20, 2021, 02:50:59 PM
Id go the oddssey again.
I had 8 years out of the last one.
Since then Ive tried 3 dekkas, 5 year through to 1.1 years(just out of warrentee). They also give issues just before they die suddenly.
Price here in Australia is the only issue I havent put another oddessey in again.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: ampm7 on March 20, 2021, 03:38:57 PM
I've had my Battery Tender charger for over 20 years and use it on my AGM batteries and haven't noticed any problems.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: bsanorton on March 20, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
I've had my Battery Tender charger for over 20 years and use it on my AGM batteries and haven't noticed any problems.

Supposedly they can't do the 'deep' charge on the Odyssey, but what do I know. I'm still using the same battery tender (not the junior) I've had for years myself 
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: lucky phil on March 20, 2021, 04:58:28 PM
But I need to replace the battery in my California. I had an Odyssey PC545 in there. It's been over 10 years since I've bought a battery. Is Odyssey still the way to go? Has much changed in the last 10 years? Are there better options?

Thanks,

-AJ

You want the simple answer. Yes the Odyssey is still the gold standard for a Guzzi. Go the V11lemans forum for more info. Not saying you need to follow this but there's a lot of Odyssey battery knowledge over there.

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/18838-odyssey-pc545-battery-conditioning/

Ciao
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: AJ Huff on March 20, 2021, 05:40:28 PM
Interesting..I remember when I first bought the Odyssey I thought it failed in the first month under warranty. Took it to the nearest authorized battery shop, which was an hour away, and he said I was charging it wrong. He  said I need to connect another car battery to it while charging it. Told me to take jumper cables and connect the batteries. It was soooo long ago in don't remember how, I'm assuming I did positive to positive, negative to negative. And then hook the charger to Odyssey. Sure enough it worked! And any time after that if I forgot my lights on or something and found a dead battery, that method always worked. I'd hook the bike battery to my truck battery and then the charger to the bike battery.

-AJ
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: lucky phil on March 20, 2021, 05:50:10 PM
Interesting..I remember when I first bought the Odyssey I thought it failed in the first month under warranty. Took it to the nearest authorized battery shop, which was an hour away, and he said I was charging it wrong. He  said I need to connect another car battery to it while charging it. Told me to take jumper cables and connect the batteries. It was soooo long ago in don't remember how, I'm assuming I did positive to positive, negative to negative. And then hook the charger to Odyssey. Sure enough it worked! And any time after that if I forgot my lights on or something and found a dead battery, that method always worked. I'd hook the bike battery to my truck battery and then the charger to the bike battery.

-AJ

You werent charging it wrong. If a battery these days drops below around 8.5 volts or so modern chargers won't charge them. The chargers now days have a safety circuit that prevents charging at low voltages and by hooking a good battery up in parallel it brings the voltage the charger sees to above the threshold and it charges both together. It a "nanny state" issue to protect us from the muppets that can't monitor a batteries state of charge during the process. Old manual chargers dont suffer from this. You can also leave the dead battery fitted and jump start and let the alternator bring the voltage up to the charge threshold as well.

Ciao
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: kingoffleece on March 20, 2021, 06:15:45 PM
I had a nice long phone chat with a tech guy over at Odyssey last year.  He was very firm about following the info on the tech site and using the correct charger/maintainers for max battery life and reliability.  The impression I got was that a lot of field failures were due to usage  outside of the stated parameters.  As an example, I was informed that the motorcycle should show between 14.4 and 14.8 to the battery while in use.  I  know my Jackal did not put out that much.  He suggested a change in output would be very helpful for best service and reliability, field report evidence to the contrary.
Hey, it's what I was told.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Wayne Orwig on March 20, 2021, 06:32:43 PM
I had a nice long phone chat with a tech guy over at Odyssey last year.  He was very firm about following the info on the tech site and using the correct charger/maintainers for max battery life and reliability.  The impression I got was that a lot of field failures were due to usage  outside of the stated parameters.  As an example, I was informed that the motorcycle should show between 14.4 and 14.8 to the battery while in use.  I  know my Jackal did not put out that much.  He suggested a change in output would be very helpful for best service and reliability, field report evidence to the contrary.
Hey, it's what I was told.

The Odyssey manual states that basically a wimpy charger may damage the battery. You need a charger that can 'kick butt'.

I know that, I have heard that, and I have had dealers tell me that they had to 'revive' some Odyssey batteries with a high current charger, that had been damaged because the owner used a small trickle charger.

But, my California only charged to about 14.3 volts. And I have an Odyssey on the back porch that is lightly discharged to power a laptop, and slowly charged by a wimpy solar panel. Been using it for years with no ill effect.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: lucky phil on March 21, 2021, 02:34:20 AM
I had a nice long phone chat with a tech guy over at Odyssey last year.  He was very firm about following the info on the tech site and using the correct charger/maintainers for max battery life and reliability.  The impression I got was that a lot of field failures were due to usage  outside of the stated parameters.  As an example, I was informed that the motorcycle should show between 14.4 and 14.8 to the battery while in use.  I  know my Jackal did not put out that much.  He suggested a change in output would be very helpful for best service and reliability, field report evidence to the contrary.
Hey, it's what I was told.

There's the statement. It's not always possible to give a battery the perfect existence so you won't get the absolute best out of it but in the majority of cases with an Odyssey they are just fine. They are sensitive to overcharging and I've killed one on a V11 Sport because the reg output was too high. It leaked its electrolite out. I replaced the battery and thought I had corrected the issue but the new battery started showing signs of it happening again so I replaced the reg. Even with the battery showing signs after cleaning it up and reinstalling it's performing fine.
Ciao 
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Joliet Jim on March 21, 2021, 08:28:18 AM
I've the 680 odyssey in the 02 Stone for about the last 8 years. 545 is in the Centauro which boiled the first 545 when the regulator ground didn't. For the Buell Blast it's something much cheaper. :)
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: bsanorton on March 21, 2021, 05:14:25 PM
Spoke to soon, Odyssey battery can't turn over the V11, 11.1 volts, i guess I need one of those expensive chargers or go back to the ways i am accustomed to.....
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: lucky phil on March 21, 2021, 05:36:39 PM
Spoke to soon, Odyssey battery can't turn over the V11, 11.1 volts, i guess I need one of those expensive chargers or go back to the ways i am accustomed to.....
I just bought a manual battery charger off ebay for like $35AU exactly for times like this. The latest "Nanny chargers" piss me off. Just when you need them they decide you can't charge a really flat battery. All to protect morons.

Ciao 
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on March 21, 2021, 07:41:18 PM
I just bought a manual battery charger off ebay for like $35AU exactly for times like this. The latest "Nanny chargers" piss me off. Just when you need them they decide you can't charge a really flat battery. All to protect morons.

Ciao
My take on that is the tender doesn't know if its a 12 Volt or a 6 Volt battery so errs on the safe side, I have an old wall wort off a printer for that scenario It puts out 1 Amp at 14 Volts with nothing more than a transformer and rectifier.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Wayne Orwig on March 22, 2021, 08:36:14 AM
I just bought a manual battery charger off ebay for like $35AU exactly for times like this. The latest "Nanny chargers" piss me off. Just when you need them they decide you can't charge a really flat battery. All to protect morons.

I used to have this HUGE transformer from I don't know what old scrap mystery machine. It was not labeled at all, but was about a 15 volt AC out. I put a 50 amp bridge rectifier on the output. When a battery would act up, I would connect that thing for a couple of minutes and it would bring it to life no matter what. It would involves arcs and sparks and all kinds of good stuff.  :boozing:   If the car battery was dead, it would crank the car.
 
But now I just use one of that lithium jumper packs. Not as much fun, but it works.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: lucky phil on March 22, 2021, 01:26:30 PM
I used to have this HUGE transformer from I don't know what old scrap mystery machine. It was not labeled at all, but was about a 15 volt AC out. I put a 50 amp bridge rectifier on the output. When a battery would act up, I would connect that thing for a couple of minutes and it would bring it to life no matter what. It would involves arcs and sparks and all kinds of good stuff.  :boozing:   If the car battery was dead, it would crank the car.
 
But now I just use one of that lithium jumper packs. Not as much fun, but it works.

Yes I recently bought one of them as well. I was hoping I could use it as a straight 12V power supply with alligator leads just for the odd testing purposes around the garage as well as for jump starting but found it has a 30 second timing button for starting and 12V supply. Bugger

Ciao
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Tom on March 22, 2021, 01:41:52 PM
I use a higher amp charger that can jolt agm batteries.  10A or car start at 50A. (15 minutes)  I've been able to revive batteries give to me by other friends.  Saves me money.   :boozing:
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Huzo on March 22, 2021, 02:29:10 PM
Over the journey I have opted for Yuasa if available, donít know if they are the best or not but I have never had any issues whatsoever and you canít kill them with an axe..
No need for special chargers, take a flat one to bed with you, give it a cuddle and in the morning itíll jump start a truck..!
On my 2017 Nordkapp trip, I had a slight indication the current one (so to speak), was getting tired so I got a new one when I got off the ferry in Norway. The young bloke broke every rule (apparently) in doing the initial charge procedure, yet the thing is still working perfectly.
For me batteries are like tyres, there may be better out there, but I just ďfeelĒ better with Yuasa and Michelin.
Iíll leave the experimentation to someone else... :popcorn:
ps..
Donít feel queasy about asking battery questions, but while youíre here can you tell me what your thoughts are on what oils you think are best...?
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: Muzz on March 24, 2021, 01:46:58 AM
My take on that is the tender doesn't know if its a 12 Volt or a 6 Volt battery so errs on the safe side, I have an old wall wort off a printer for that scenario It puts out 1 Amp at 14 Volts with nothing more than a transformer and rectifier.

And that's the kicker Roy.

When I sold batteries the rep told me that by the time a calcium technology battery drops to 12 volts a smart charger will not recognise it as a battery, and just will not charge it.  I have a "dumb charger", which is like yours, a transformer and a rectifier.  I use this to get the battery up to about 12.5 volts, at which stage my smart charger will take over and pump in up to 6 amps if need be, and drop back to float when charged.
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: kfz on March 24, 2021, 02:28:23 AM
Im running my second odyssey after the first one lasted 9 years on the LeMans.  Im also running a MOTOBATT AGM (on 2 other bikes, one non Guzzi) which seems even more powerful.  Been one about 3 years now.

I always use a trickle charger if i leave them over a week. just to simply look after them.  Expensive do.

Kev
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: AJ Huff on April 28, 2021, 04:10:09 PM
It's not looking like I can walk into Autozone and get one. No surprise, not an automotive size. Before I had the Odyssey 545 and I thought it worked fine. Odyssey recommends the 925. Above it was suggested to go with the 680. Before I pull the trigger and order what say people, split the difference and get the 680LMJ? This is for my Call Spec not the Ambo.

-AJ
Title: Re: I hate to ask a battery question...
Post by: mobiker on April 28, 2021, 08:06:25 PM
I've never had a battery last longer than 4 years in my old airhead. It didn't matter if it was high dollar German made OEM or an el cheapo no name  made in Taiwan. Four years and done. Then, 8 years ago I bought an Odyssey. Its still going strong. I don't have power in my garage, so no tender. I do remove it each winter (its easy so if I want to ride in January its 10 minutes to put it back in). Its a 925. I will buy another when it dies. Best motorcycle battery I've ever had.

Lots of airhead GS riders over on Adventurerider use the 680 with good success. I bought the bigger and heavier 925 because I have never, not once in my life, been in a situation where I wished I had less  battery capacity. I have, however, been in situations where I wished I had more  :wink: