Author Topic: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road  (Read 116924 times)

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #90 on: July 02, 2017, 11:39:31 PM »
It wasn't all bike building, I got the Laverda SF1 out on the road along with my buddy on his beautiful and all original Pantah



The Laverda runs like a top and pulls like a tractor and makes a pretty nice sound too


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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #91 on: July 03, 2017, 04:14:16 AM »
Thanks Jim. I think I get it :grin: :thumb: Nice Laverda too :thumb:
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #92 on: July 03, 2017, 09:47:57 PM »
Fitting the sump, flip the engine upside down and place a gasket down



I am installing a deep sump outside filter unit, new stainless fasteners and all torqued down



Check the gear timing marks and then I attached a dial gauge to the back of the crank, inserted a piston stop into the left spark plug hole and confirmed TFC on compression on the left 'S' cylinder





Pulled the engine off the build stand and onto the engine holder

Grease the tach drive gear face on the cam



Install a front cover gasket



Pop the cover on with a new seal for the alternator



Use the correct hardened steel bolt for the alternator and a schnor washer



Install the rocker gaskets and rocker covers, new fasteners, torque the covers down



With the engine sealed up I pressurized the case to 60 psi and checked for leaks, soapy water on the back of the breather tubes, no bubbles



The paint mark on the back of the crank should line up with the cast pointer in the back of the crankcase,



I made a mark on the flywheel before I removed it to know where the flywheel should bolt on and marked it with a new paint dab



The 'S' mark should be in position to be viewed through the transmission inception plug



This mark should align with the pointer on the crank case



Torque down the flywheel with schnor washers



I put a dab of glue from a hot glue gun onto the back of the clutch springs to hold them in position until the pressure plate is in place





Check the pressure plate recesses on the back are aligned to the springs, the mark in the pressure plate matches a mark on the flywheel, I repainted the marks



Then tighten down the clutch plate alignment tool





new clutch plates and an intermediate plate







Then the ring gear can be attached, schnor washers again



And the clutch rod mushroom pops in to place





Stator fitted



And the air spacer and cover, haven't decided if I will polish the cover, I think the original Le Mans where not polished??



OK that's one motor built











Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #93 on: July 04, 2017, 08:28:54 AM »
Looks like the flywheel bolts are 8.8? You really need higher strength 10.9 bolts in that application. 8.8 are fine for the ring gear though.
Charlie

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #93 on: July 04, 2017, 08:28:54 AM »

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #94 on: July 04, 2017, 08:38:11 AM »
Thanks Charlie! I will check the bolt grade.

Jim

Offline swooshdave

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1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #95 on: July 04, 2017, 10:00:39 AM »


Mk1 Series 2 at Barber. Note the black alternator cover and unpolished timing cover.


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« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 10:01:53 AM by swooshdave »
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #96 on: July 04, 2017, 11:02:44 AM »
Thanks Dave, great picture, lots of good detail information there.

If you have any more detail pictures of the Barber bike please share them.

I am going to fit the Euro version headlight, I don't care for that big black bezel sticking out of the fairing.

Jim

Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #97 on: July 04, 2017, 11:14:11 AM »
Yes, I took a bunch of detail shots. I'll post them in a bit.


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Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #98 on: July 04, 2017, 11:41:06 AM »






















I'll reiterate that Barber is the finest motorcycle museum in the world. If you have not been put it on your list as the next thing to do.


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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #99 on: July 04, 2017, 01:52:21 PM »
Thanks Dave!!!

These pictures will be of a great help to me reassembling my Le Mans.

I have Barbers on my bucket list, I have to get there in the next year or two, I have heard so many great things about it.

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #100 on: July 04, 2017, 02:00:03 PM »
Looks like the flywheel bolts are 8.8? You really need higher strength 10.9 bolts in that application. 8.8 are fine for the ring gear though.

Great eye Charlie, like you thought the bag of bolts I was using are all 8.8, I bought a box each of 50 - 25mm and 20mm  - 10.9 high strength bolts from my local bolt supply shop.

Tossing out the old 8.8's this evening!

Thanks again for letting me know, shearing flywheel bolts would not have made for a good day.

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #101 on: July 04, 2017, 04:04:22 PM »
Great eye Charlie, like you thought the bag of bolts I was using are all 8.8, I bought a box each of 50 - 25mm and 20mm  - 10.9 high strength bolts from my local bolt supply shop.

Tossing out the old 8.8's this evening!

Thanks again for letting me know, shearing flywheel bolts would not have made for a good day.

Looks like you have 4 of each - 8.8 and 10.9 on the ring gear. Or maybe four are zinc-plated and four are black oxide.
Charlie

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #102 on: July 05, 2017, 10:25:20 PM »
10.9 bolts installed on the flywheel and ring gear,



Mated the transmission to the engine



And this time I stamped a rebuild date onto a non-descript location on the engine block



and the back of the transmission



Chances are this Le Mans will not need to be rebuilt again and 40 years from now when this bike is 80 years old some future owner may want to know when it was rebuilt

Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2017, 09:14:59 AM »
Except they won't know what that date means.


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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #104 on: July 06, 2017, 09:18:53 AM »
Except they won't know what that date means.


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I have to leave some mystery behind the marks :grin:

Offline Groover

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #105 on: July 06, 2017, 09:44:11 AM »
Did you paint the tools used in this project all blue, or are they purchased somewhere all like that? Some (most) seem specifically to Moto Guzzi, is that the case?
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #106 on: July 06, 2017, 10:02:20 AM »
Did you paint the tools used in this project all blue, or are they purchased somewhere all like that? Some (most) seem specifically to Moto Guzzi, is that the case?

 :embarassed: I powder coat all my specialty tools blue,  it started one day years ago while powder coating some blue parts and rather than dump the powder I started to paint tools, one thing leads to another ... OCD, and I know their mine if I lend them out, not that there is a big call for Guzzi tools around here. :smiley:

I found some used on Ebay, some where bought new, they sure come in handy though a lot of them are not absolutely necessary and other tools could be improvised. The crank nut tool, the starter ring gear holder, rear transmission nut holder, swing arm spindle tool are essential and the other make the work easier.

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #107 on: July 07, 2017, 11:40:49 PM »
The Le Mans build goes on the backburner for a while. My Laverda decided to start making an ugly grinding noise so I dropped the motor, pulled it apart and split the cases. Now to get an expert to take a look at the crank and see if its good, I think the cam chain was the culprit.

This is one serious heavy lump, a real challenge to get it out of the frame.






Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #108 on: July 08, 2017, 12:21:36 AM »
Do you sleep?


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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #109 on: July 08, 2017, 01:22:18 PM »
Do you sleep?


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Not much and I get bored easily :laugh:

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #110 on: July 08, 2017, 05:00:03 PM »
I'm seeing some seriously hot stuff here..

What I wanted to post about though.. is that some people gripe about museums and machines that are not ridden. Those pix Swooshdave took are invaluable to a restorer to see what an original *really* looked like. Attaboy.  :smiley:
Museums certainly have their place and this is one of the things I like about them.
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #111 on: July 08, 2017, 09:13:36 PM »
I have received conflicting opinions on the Laverda forum on the heat mark, some guys say its normal from the assembly process, others say not, I am going to dry reassemble the engine, build a crate and ship it off to the Guru Wolfgang Haerter in B.C.

I got everything vapour blasted today and ready for inspection,





« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 11:35:03 PM by canuck750 »

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #112 on: July 14, 2017, 10:29:33 AM »
My Laverda motor has been crated and shipped to Wolfgang Haerter at Columbia Car & Cycle for an examination so my bike lift is blocked with a partially disassembled Laverda SF1 preventing a Le Mans assembly to continue. Shifting over to another project I removed the heads from the Benelli 650 Tornado, there was a good 1/2 inch of dirt and rust in each cylinder congealed to a thick pudding of rust from filling the chambers with penetrating fluid. Washed out the mess and it looks like this, firmly seized



And the flip side of improper storage looks like this



I have filled the cylinders to the brim with Evaporust to let the chemical do its work for a month hopefully the pistons will free up

Looks like its going to take a bit more than a light hone and some valve lapping paste to get it back in shape :violent1:




Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #113 on: July 14, 2017, 11:10:24 AM »
Just push the Laverda onto the floor and get on with the LeMans. Priorities man!


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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #114 on: July 14, 2017, 01:58:11 PM »
Just push the Laverda onto the floor and get on with the LeMans. Priorities man!


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Your right, I should have stripped the Laverda motor out at my office warehouse and got the frame  assembly going on the Le Mans at home. Having bikes and tools split between two locations is a drag. My space at home is about 14 feet x 6 feet to work on a motorcycle but 90% of my tools are there. My storage space at the office is about 1000 square feet but I have a few tools and its a ways from home.

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #115 on: July 20, 2017, 02:25:29 PM »
Meanwhile still sidelined from the Le Mans Build, Laverda on the lift and back to the Benelli..... Soaking the cylinders with Evaporust has so far not resulted in freeing the pistons but it did remove a lot of rust from the cylinder walls.



I placed the whole engine in my vapor blast cabinet and cleaned the cylinders, piston crowns and cases as much as possible prior to cleaning each part individually.



The crank will rotate and raise the pair of cylinders off the case, enough to fit some square 11/2" bar spacers between the underside of the cylinders and the engine case. I am planning on making a steel plate with 8 holes drilled to match the head stud pattern and then between the underside of the plate and the top of the piston fit a small hydraulic ram attached to my 5 ton porta-power. My plan is the hydraulic force of the ram will force the piston / crank down and crack the rings free of the block.



I have about a 3/4" lift on the current locked position, I only need a tiny bit of drop to break the bond. Any thoughts if this idea is going to work, not damage the crank....?


Offline Don G

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #116 on: July 20, 2017, 04:14:10 PM »
Jim: make sure that what ever you put on the piston crown is near the same diameter as the piston, if not you could push what ever through the crown, also be sure that the piston can travel, this way you are not bending a con rod. also warm the jug with a soft heat a couple of times before attempting. I have used this method on a number or Brit bikes to good effect. DonG

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #117 on: July 20, 2017, 04:49:42 PM »
Jim: make sure that what ever you put on the piston crown is near the same diameter as the piston, if not you could push what ever through the crown, also be sure that the piston can travel, this way you are not bending a con rod. also warm the jug with a soft heat a couple of times before attempting. I have used this method on a number or Brit bikes to good effect. DonG

Thanks Don, A little heat can go a long way.

I am going to make an aluminum 'plug' to sit on top of the piston crown and take the brunt of the hydraulic ram's contact. I think I only need to move the piston the thickness of a piston ring, a mm should do. Once the bond is broken I should be able to rotate the crank and reveal the piston pin and clips, .... at least that is the plan.

Offline swooshdave

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #118 on: July 22, 2017, 09:09:08 PM »
Evaporust? Is that similar to Kroil? How long have you been letting it soak? Sometimes you do have to resort to brute force.


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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild getting started
« Reply #119 on: July 22, 2017, 09:12:16 PM »
Cases split, crank hanging by the rods, steel plate attached and 5 tons pressure on the piston .... nothin :thewife:





I filled the cylinders with fresh Evaporust and will keep soaking the cylinder / piston. 

Damn theses rings are rusted to the iron liner.

Good news is the crank is not rusted and the bearings turn

« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 11:24:10 PM by canuck750 »

 

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