Looking to go Commando?

[Aaron D.]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/132262622629

I know the bike and the seller. This is a no-surprises bike, excluding those surprises that accompany any 43 year old machine.

[Lannis]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/132262622629

I know the bike and the seller. This is a no-surprises bike, excluding those surprises that accompany any 43 year old machine.

That really looks nice, and he's right about it having all the "must have" upgrades already done; normally people spend thousands on those.

Looks like he has a "no-reserve" auction going and a "buy it now" price?   That's an unusual combination if so.    I like his chances of getting the buy-it-now fairly early, since the auction will be on a trajectory to exceed that price before too long .....

Lannis

[LeRoy]

Looks like he has a "no-reserve" auction going and a "buy it now" price?   That's an unusual combination if so.    I like his chances of getting the buy-it-now fairly early, since the auction will be on a trajectory to exceed that price before too long .....

One of the problems with an eBay no reserve auction combined with Buy-it-Now is that as soon as someone bids, the B-i-N price goes away. As it stands right now (11:30 PM on Saturday), the high bid is $382 and there is no longer a Buy-it-Now option. I wonder if the seller expected this? It should be interesting to see how this one goes.

[ohiorider]

I know nothing about eBay auction logic.  All I can say is "......this is one lovely motorcycle ....."

When it came to great styling, the Brits had it nailed.  Whether is was a vertical twin motorcycle, or a Spitfire's beautiful elliptical wings, they got it!

[Aaron D.]

British styling was often between sublime and, well, Austin Atlantic.

[tpeever]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/132262622629

I know the bike and the seller. This is a no-surprises bike, excluding those surprises that accompany any 43 year old machine.

I am a big fan of Commandos. I have a '74 Roadster and it is my favorite bike. Very different from a Guzzi but I love them as well but for different reasons. The Commando is much lighter and more nimble and feels like an entirely different motorcycle. Agreed that several of the recommended upgrades appear to have been done. A critical one that is not mentioned is the roller bearing on the layshaft in the gearbox. The '74 models had a Portuguese bearing whose cage is prone to destruction right around this mileage. Mine went out at 10K miles but it happened at low speed and I was able to limp home. Results can be extremely dangerous such as gear box locking up at speed. Telltale sign is the kickstart lever bobbing up and down. I would recommend asking the seller if this upgrade has been done. If not, it's not a particularly complex fix but does entail pulling the gearbox out of the bike, pulling the bearing, reinstalling new one and setting end float. There are good articles available online how to do it (Commando parts dealer Old Britts has a particularly good one) and you can also get good advice on the "Access Norton" Commando forum.

[leafman60]

I am a big fan of Commandos. I have a '74 Roadster and it is my favorite bike. Very different from a Guzzi but I love them as well but for different reasons. The Commando is much lighter and more nimble and feels like an entirely different motorcycle. Agreed that several of the recommended upgrades appear to have been done. A critical one that is not mentioned is the roller bearing on the layshaft in the gearbox. The '74 models had a Portuguese bearing whose cage is prone to destruction right around this mileage. Mine went out at 10K miles but it happened at low speed and I was able to limp home. Results can be extremely dangerous such as gear box locking up at speed. Telltale sign is the kickstart lever bobbing up and down. I would recommend asking the seller if this upgrade has been done. If not, it's not a particularly complex fix but does entail pulling the gearbox out of the bike, pulling the bearing, reinstalling new one and setting end float. There are good articles available online how to do it (Commando parts dealer Old Britts has a particularly good one) and you can also get good advice on the "Access Norton" Commando forum.

Good point

[Lannis]

I am a big fan of Commandos. I have a '74 Roadster and it is my favorite bike. Very different from a Guzzi but I love them as well but for different reasons. The Commando is much lighter and more nimble and feels like an entirely different motorcycle. Agreed that several of the recommended upgrades appear to have been done. A critical one that is not mentioned .....

As long as you've broken the ice, and we're talking about critical upgrades (without appearing to impugn the bike, which is a very nice one and worth bidding on), he mentions an "anti-wet-sump" upgrade but doesn't say what he's using.

On these or any other British dry-sump bike that has a little wear on it, oil can drain from the oil tank, past a little internal ball valve, and past the oil-pump gears (or pump pistons), and fill up the sump, which can result in bad things from blown seals to lots of oil on the floor upon starting, to hydraulic lock and bent rods.

The EASIEST and CHEAPEST solution is to put a little spring-loaded check valve in the pump intake, between the tank and the pump.   The theory, which usually works in practice, is that the pump, when it turns, will suck the valve open and allow oil to flow, but keep oil in the tank when the pump is NOT sucking.

The "usually" is the kicker.   I installed one once on my BSA, and one day the pump did NOT suck the new check valve open, and the engine ran dry of oil.   I'm not the only one, but the solution seems so cheap and easy (a razor blade to cut the line, two hose clamps and done) that lots of people do it.

In 1975, Norton started putting a spring loaded anti-wet-sumping valve on the OUTPUT side of the pump, which won't backfire on you.   The oil still has a path through the pump gears to the sump, but if you keep your oil pump in shape, this isn't a problem.   My Norton has the output valve and the pump has been "lapped" into tightness, and I get no oil leaking down even after months.

The '75 upgrade can be retrofitted to earlier models with a little machine work and hand-working of the oil pump, which a company called "AMR-Tucson" does for $90 + shipping.   

If that's the upgrade that's been done, that's a good thing.   If it hasn't, I'd fix it ....

Be interesting to see how it goes!

Lannis

[JJ]

Beautiful Commando, and not outrageously priced...someone is going to be a happy camper in the end!  I'd love to own another Commando someday! :1:

[menzies]

I also wonder if superblend bearings have been fitted to the crankshaft.  No mention if the numbers on the transmission, engine and data plate match. Is the bike still running a points ignition, just curious.

[leafman60]

...The EASIEST and CHEAPEST solution is to put a little spring-loaded check valve in the pump intake, between the tank and the pump.   The theory, which usually works in practice, is that the pump, when it turns, will suck the valve open and allow oil to flow, but keep oil in the tank when the pump is NOT sucking.

The "usually" is the kicker.   I installed one once on my BSA, and one day the pump did NOT suck the new check valve open, and the engine ran dry of oil.   I'm not the only one, but the solution seems so cheap and easy (a razor blade to cut the line, two hose clamps and done) that lots of people do it.

This exact same thing happened to me with a 650 Matchless twin. Cooked the motor.

.

[menzies]

I sent a note to the owner and he reported it still has the points ignition and it worked well, numbers on engine and trans match. He has not replaced the layshaft but Baxter's could have done that.

I forgot to ask if it had super-blend bearings fitted to the crankshaft and am not sure this was an issue with the 74's.

None of these would be deal breakers for me but a lot of folks think an electronic ignition and single Mikuna carb are a necessary upgrade.

[leafman60]

....single Mikuna carb are a necessary upgrade.

Abomination on any classic bike

[kirkemon]

I like it, but won't be bidding.
This looks nice but need some work:
http://www.proitalia.com/products/1970-triumph-t100c-trophy-500/

[Lannis]

Abomination on any classic bike

True.   Amals work fine on everything I've got that was designed to use them ....

[Gino]

Great bikes but more labour intensive than Guzzi's , we took two out today, choice of 3 at the moment, the roadsters won the draw

[tpeever]

I also wonder if superblend bearings have been fitted to the crankshaft.  No mention if the numbers on the transmission, engine and data plate match. Is the bike still running a points ignition, just curious.

74's had the upgraded main bearings so should not be an issue

[tpeever]

As long as you've broken the ice, and we're talking about critical upgrades (without appearing to impugn the bike, which is a very nice one and worth bidding on), he mentions an "anti-wet-sump" upgrade but doesn't say what he's using.

On these or any other British dry-sump bike that has a little wear on it, oil can drain from the oil tank, past a little internal ball valve, and past the oil-pump gears (or pump pistons), and fill up the sump, which can result in bad things from blown seals to lots of oil on the floor upon starting, to hydraulic lock and bent rods.

The EASIEST and CHEAPEST solution is to put a little spring-loaded check valve in the pump intake, between the tank and the pump.   The theory, which usually works in practice, is that the pump, when it turns, will suck the valve open and allow oil to flow, but keep oil in the tank when the pump is NOT sucking.

The "usually" is the kicker.   I installed one once on my BSA, and one day the pump did NOT suck the new check valve open, and the engine ran dry of oil.   I'm not the only one, but the solution seems so cheap and easy (a razor blade to cut the line, two hose clamps and done) that lots of people do it.

In 1975, Norton started putting a spring loaded anti-wet-sumping valve on the OUTPUT side of the pump, which won't backfire on you.   The oil still has a path through the pump gears to the sump, but if you keep your oil pump in shape, this isn't a problem.   My Norton has the output valve and the pump has been "lapped" into tightness, and I get no oil leaking down even after months.

The '75 upgrade can be retrofitted to earlier models with a little machine work and hand-working of the oil pump, which a company called "AMR-Tucson" does for $90 + shipping.   

If that's the upgrade that's been done, that's a good thing.   If it hasn't, I'd fix it ....

Be interesting to see how it goes!

Lannis

I haven't bothered with installing any kind of anti-sumping solution due to the risks involved with most of the "solutions". It is a pain in the ass to empty the sump before a ride if the bike has sat more than 2 weeks but not that big a deal. Better than blowing up your engine. All Nortons wet sump. Just one of the joys of Norton ownership! If you ride the bike once a week, it becomes a non-issue. If you do decide to tackle the wet sumping problem, Lannis' suggestion for the ball in the timing cover is the way to go. AMR is the only place doing this conversion commercially that I know about.

[tpeever]

Abomination on any classic bike

Respectfully disagree. Single Mikuni carb and electronic ignition are the two of the best upgrades on a Commando IMO.

[tpeever]

I sent a note to the owner and he reported it still has the points ignition and it worked well, numbers on engine and trans match. He has not replaced the layshaft but Baxter's could have done that.

Would be nice to know for sure. Very dangerous of it has not been addressed.

I forgot to ask if it had super-blend bearings fitted to the crankshaft and am not sure this was an issue with the 74's.

Not an issue

None of these would be deal breakers for me but a lot of folks think an electronic ignition and single Mikuna carb are a necessary upgrade.

Run it with the dual Concentrics and points and see what you think. The single Mikuni and electronic ignition WILL transform the bike though. Guaranteed.

[Lannis]

It is a pain in the ass to empty the sump before a ride if the bike has sat more than 2 weeks but not that big a deal.

That's what I was doing (before I found that someone had not put the little piston back into the bore on the stock anti-sumping setup), but I DID find it to be a big deal, even though folks say "It only takes 5 minutes, what's the problem?"

The problem is that unless you want to start introducing dirt into your engine, it takes a much longer time than 5 minutes to do that job.

Since the oil is going to run all around the threads and the boss around the drain hole as it drains out, both the bottom of the engine and the sump plug have to be scrupulously clean before you drain the oil out, and that's a filthy part of the motorcycle, full of road grit and every nasty thing that gets thrown off the front tire.   So you either have to put the motorcycle up on the lift and tie it down and pump it up, OR lay down on the floor or ground and squiggle around with rags and solvent until the OUTSIDE of the bottom of the engine is as clean as you want the INSIDE to be.

Then you have to get a 2-quart container that will fit under the sump, and get IT as clean as you want your main bearings to be, which is squeaky clean.   And if you use the one you used last time, it now has dead bugs and dust and old oil in it, so out with the solvent and rags again.

Then you twiddle out the sump drain (and the seal will only last a few cycles so have some spare ones laying around), drain the oil out, and carefully pour it back into the tank, all without knocking a lump of dirt off of something into the oil pan.

(OR you can throw the 2 quarts of barely-used oil at $5.98 a quart away and add fresh oil every time, but this is WG and no one is doing that).

To me, that whole process IS a big deal, and for $100 and two weeks downtime in the winter while AMR sorted the timing cover, I think it's the best upgrade you can do for this bike (or any old Brit) .....

But that's just me.   Sounds like I'm willing to deal with Amals and not wet-sumping, and you don't like dealing with Amals and do put up with the wet-sumping, so there's that ....

Lannis

[Aaron D.]

I think by now everyone here is aware that old motorcycles will always have some issues (except maybe Guzzis) so why worry?
If you want a trouble free modern experience there are a lot of those!

[Chuck in Indiana]

I think by now everyone here is aware that old motorcycles will always have some issues (except maybe Guzzis) so why worry?
If you want a trouble free modern experience there are a lot of those!

 

[tpeever]

To me, that whole process IS a big deal, and for $100 and two weeks downtime in the winter while AMR sorted the timing cover, I think it's the best upgrade you can do for this bike (or any old Brit) .....

Believe it or not, it's on my list of things to do! Maybe owning Guzzis and an Airhead with wet sumps has made me less tolerant of my incontinent Cdo! 

As one old Norton owner told me. "if you don't want to worry about wet-sumping just ride the damn bike every week"!!

But that's just me.   Sounds like I'm willing to deal with Amals and not wet-sumping, and you don't like dealing with Amals and do put up with the wet-sumping, so there's that ....

Lannis

Amals are OK if you have them sleeved or possibly opt for the new ones. I could never get the twin Concentrics on my Cdo to idle properly but that was before I discovered sleeving them. Now getting the carb sleeved is the first thing I do during a Brit bike restoration. Have toyed with going back to twin Concentrics just for fun but sleeving two Concentrics ain't cheap and the Mikuni is just so damn good there hasn't any incentive to go back. In terms of Amals, like Monoblocs much more than Concentrics. Mikuni is just a much better carb than anything Amal aver made and having only one makes for a much more streetable Cdo IMHO.

[Rough Edge racing]

True.   Amals work fine on everything I've got that was designed to use them ....

Amals are simple and work well when they are in good condition...And good condition includes the proper float level...Synchronizi ng the carbs at both idle and when the slides are slightly lifted off the stops is also important...Like a Guzzi, Nortons are not for everyone and despite my long history with Triumphs, I never warmed up to the 74 Norton 850 owned for several years...
   I find it note worthy that Lannis rides long distances on two British (affordable) bikes that are arguably the best for this, BSA A10 and the Norton...

[Travman]

I have had this 1973 for three days.  Just returned from two hours of riding. This thing is wonderful. It is quick and light. It is raw, but not too rough. It is very flexible and will pull hard in any gear at any RPM. The exhaust sound is wonderful, until you give it gas and then it is perfect. I am in love so far. 






pic upload

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[Sheepdog]

Didn't 1974 Nortons have plastic airboxes?

[Lannis]

Didn't 1974 Nortons have plastic airboxes?

They did.   The Mk1A from late 1973 had the big airbox to address European noise-reduction regs.

They're somewhat of a pain to deal with, and with any carburetor conversion they have to go, so most don't have stock airboxes.    Also, the near-side sidecover mount is riveted to the airbox, so that has to be addressed if it's changed.

Lannis

[Rough Edge racing]

 You look like a strong guy, straighten up when kicking...If it kicks back when bent over like that it will hurt,    And many Commandos got broken side stands when the rider kicked the bike with the stand down...

     

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

You look like a strong guy, straighten up when kicking...If it kicks back when bent over like that it will hurt,    And many Commandos got broken side stands when the rider kicked the bike with the stand down...

     

That's actually Martin, Travman/Travis' buddy. Smart getting someone else to kickstart your bike!  I'm more worried about Martin's choice of footwear than anything else.