Author Topic: Agostini pipes on a V7iii  (Read 14350 times)

Offline Socalrob

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Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« on: August 21, 2017, 03:43:40 AM »
Put a set of Agostini pipes on the new Anniverario over the weekend.  Put about 20 miles on with the baffles in, and about 20'miles with the baffles out.

With the baffles in my completely stock KTM 690 Enduro is considerably louder.  With the baffles out Harley Davidson riders are covering their ears and yelling at me but I can't hear them over the bike.

Pretty sure I am putting them back in.  Might ride it around like this for a day or two just for fun.  But it may give me a headache.

elvisboy77

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 05:36:43 AM »
Put a set of Agostini pipes on the new Anniverario over the weekend.  Put about 20 miles on with the baffles in, and about 20'miles with the baffles out.

With the baffles in my completely stock KTM 690 Enduro is considerably louder.  With the baffles out Harley Davidson riders are covering their ears and yelling at me but I can't hear them over the bike.

Pretty sure I am putting them back in.  Might ride it around like this for a day or two just for fun.  But it may give me a headache.

Loud pipes save lives.  And, Braaaap lives matter.  How about a video?

Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 05:40:44 AM »
Another option might be to cut a portion of the dB killer off. That will gain a little more sound.

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 05:49:13 AM »
Interesting.  The Agostini pipes on my V7 are plenty loud with baffles in.
I'm curious as to what might account to the difference.
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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 05:49:13 AM »

pete roper

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2017, 06:58:57 AM »
Interesting.  The Agostini pipes on my V7 are plenty loud with baffles in.
I'm curious as to what might account to the difference.

The different, both obsolete, cylinder head designs between the old bikes and the III series will mean different types of noise with identical pipes. Long and the short of it is they'll both run worse the louder they are. If being a noisy moron is important to you? Knock yerselves ot. Just don't pretend the bike runs better. :thumb:

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Offline Kev m

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2017, 07:22:21 AM »
Having 4 bikes in the garage right now with stock exhaust systems (including 2 Harleys) I think I can answer this one.

Baffles in = not an asshole.

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Offline rocker59

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 08:10:41 AM »
I cut almost half the length off the baffle on my Agostinis.  Perfect compromise.

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Offline drawnverybadly

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2017, 08:57:07 AM »
The KTM 690 with a open exhaust has one of the loudest exhaust notes on the road, that bike would straight up BARK at me whenever I pulled the clutch in. In comparison a V7 with open pipes is downright civil.

Offline Socalrob

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2017, 11:21:20 AM »
The KTM 690 with a open exhaust has one of the loudest exhaust notes on the road, that bike would straight up BARK at me whenever I pulled the clutch in. In comparison a V7 with open pipes is downright civil.

KTM is 100% stock.  I was actually surprised how loud it was in comparison.

Even when I had a Ducati Hypermotard 1100s with Termigoni slip one I kept the baffles in.  On that bike using slipons still left the catylist down under the engine.  I believe the catalyst actually did much of the noise reduction.

The Agostini pipes are straight through, even with the baffle.  Actually amazing how quiet they are with the baffles in.  You hear the engine chatter about equal to the exhaust. 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 11:28:45 AM by Socalrob »

Offline lorazepam

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2017, 11:22:24 AM »
I have Lafranconi Competizione mufflers on mine. No baffles, most everyone has commented on how good it sounds. A beetle map took care of the decel pop, and it runs just fine.

Offline Yukonica

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2017, 11:24:59 AM »
Having 4 bikes in the garage right now with stock exhaust systems (including 2 Harleys) I think I can answer this one.

Baffles in = not an asshole.

So... Kev? How do feel about loud pipes?   :grin:
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Offline Socalrob

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2017, 11:38:37 AM »
The different, both obsolete, cylinder head designs between the old bikes and the III series will mean different types of noise with identical pipes. Long and the short of it is they'll both run worse the louder they are. If being a noisy moron is important to you? Knock yerselves ot. Just don't pretend the bike runs better. :thumb:

Pete

In these days of ultra lean factory tuning also aimed at noise reduction ahead of performance, I don't think that is completely true.  A moderately freer flowing pipe coupled with a ECU tune/remap can improve a bike's performance.  I know putting the termigoni slipons with the "racing" ECU really made my Hypermotard run much better.

My V7iii, by the way, had extremely few pops with the baffles in.  With the baffles out lots of popping in decel.  Of course that is without a remap, and supposedly the ECU will learn to some degree.

Offline pyoungbl

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2017, 11:49:36 AM »
I'm waiting for a real, no crap, dyno comparison of the stock exhaust vs aftermarket with tune.  My money says that the difference will be minimal....maybe 2-3 hp with a loss of torque.  I know that my V7 saw almost no difference with a tune.  The bike did run smoother through the rev range but hp and torque were almost identical.  In that case the limiting factor was Heron head design, not intake/exhaust.  The V7 III is bound to have a jump up in performance due to an improved combustion chamber but Guzzi does not tend to leave a lot of performance on the table.
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Offline Socalrob

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2017, 11:56:50 AM »
I'm waiting for a real, no crap, dyno comparison of the stock exhaust vs aftermarket with tune.  My money says that the difference will be minimal....maybe 2-3 hp with a loss of torque.  I know that my V7 saw almost no difference with a tune.  The bike did run smoother through the rev range but hp and torque were almost identical.  In that case the limiting factor was Heron head design, not intake/exhaust.  The V7 III is bound to have a jump up in performance due to an improved combustion chamber but Guzzi does not tend to leave a lot of performance on the table.

Agreed.  Probably the main benefit of the new pipes is the weight difference.  It is pretty staggering.  I'm guessing 15 lbs total between stock and Agostini with the baffles in.

Offline waxi

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2017, 12:34:51 PM »
I don't like too loud pipes. There must be some music in them, but if they are too loud I got a headache on a longer trip. :bike-037:
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2017, 01:11:31 PM »
In these days of ultra lean factory tuning also aimed at noise reduction ahead of performance, I don't think that is completely true.  A moderately freer flowing pipe coupled with a ECU tune/remap can improve a bike's performance.  I know putting the termigoni slipons with the "racing" ECU really made my Hypermotard run much better.

My V7iii, by the way, had extremely few pops with the baffles in.  With the baffles out lots of popping in decel.  Of course that is without a remap, and supposedly the ECU will learn to some degree.
I think it's been demonstrated more than once that the heron head design is the limiting factor in smallblock power. The only efforts that I've seen which produced much of a result involved larger pistons/jugs and/or headwork (like adding valves).

Shy of that a remap and some pipes aren't going to do much of anything for peak smallblock power.

Remember that most emissions standards for motorcycles are limited to very specific conditions like idle and steady throttle. Maps are often unregulated in heavy or wot conditions.
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Offline Socalrob

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2017, 01:20:40 PM »
I think it's been demonstrated more than once that the heron head design is the limiting factor in smallblock power. The only efforts that I've seen which produced much of a result involved larger pistons/jugs and/or headwork (like adding valves).

Shy of that a remap and some pipes aren't going to do much of anything for peak smallblock power.

Remember that most emissions standards for motorcycles are limited to very specific conditions like idle and steady throttle. Maps are often unregulated in heavy or wot conditions.

Agreed, although the V7iii does not have Heron heads.

One or two horsepower, drop 15 lbs, run a bit cooler (the catalysists are gone) and a deeper, throatier sound ( with the baffles in), should be all anybody expects from a set of pipes and a remap.

Offline lorazepam

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2017, 01:42:43 PM »
I changed mine because of the cat burning fuel when my plug wire went bad. Made a large nasty spot on the muffler. Now it won't happen with no cat in the system.

Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2017, 01:45:35 PM »
Rocker and I both suggested cutting down the dB killers. You might consider getting a set of extras so you can go back to the stockers if you are not happy.

I too cut down my by 1/2 on the 1400.

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« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 01:46:16 PM by Zoom Zoom »

Offline TimmyTheHog

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2017, 01:46:30 PM »
Put a set of Agostini pipes on the new Anniverario over the weekend.  Put about 20 miles on with the baffles in, and about 20'miles with the baffles out.

With the baffles in my completely stock KTM 690 Enduro is considerably louder.  With the baffles out Harley Davidson riders are covering their ears and yelling at me but I can't hear them over the bike.

Pretty sure I am putting them back in.  Might ride it around like this for a day or two just for fun.  But it may give me a headache.

Wait...HD riders are complaining the pipes are too loud???

what has the world comes to?!?!

KTM is 100% stock.  I was actually surprised how loud it was in comparison.

Even when I had a Ducati Hypermotard 1100s with Termigoni slip one I kept the baffles in.  On that bike using slipons still left the catylist down under the engine.  I believe the catalyst actually did much of the noise reduction.

The Agostini pipes are straight through, even with the baffle.  Actually amazing how quiet they are with the baffles in.  You hear the engine chatter about equal to the exhaust.

KTM from what I have noticed are always build like dirt bikes even with their street bikes.



To your original question: due to incident that has occurred here in Great Vancouver area (https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/6rds4z/harleydavidson_owner_says_neighbour_trashed_bike/)

and my most awesome wife is a super light sleeper, I personally choose to have the baffle in...

It is already loud "enough", but I do agree it does sound more awesome without the baffle...
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 01:50:54 PM by TimmyTheHog »
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2017, 02:10:33 PM »
Agreed, although the V7iii does not have Heron heads.

One or two horsepower, drop 15 lbs, run a bit cooler (the catalysists are gone) and a deeper, throatier sound ( with the baffles in), should be all anybody expects from a set of pipes and a remap.

Oh Duh, blinded by the solar eclipse glasses....or just plain too dumb to notice the thread said V7iii and not V7ii!

My bad.

I actually am curious if there is any larger effect on a new Hemi head smallblock.

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Offline Socalrob

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2017, 04:16:16 PM »
Wait...HD riders are complaining the pipes are too loud???

what has the world comes to?!?!

KTM from what I have noticed are always build like dirt bikes even with their street bikes.



To your original question: due to incident that has occurred here in Great Vancouver area (https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/6rds4z/harleydavidson_owner_says_neighbour_trashed_bike/)

and my most awesome wife is a super light sleeper, I personally choose to have the baffle in...

It is already loud "enough", but I do agree it does sound more awesome without the baffle...

Agreed, cutting the baffles down is an decent option.  Before I do that I may ride it around for some time with the full baffles to see if I like it like that.  I am guessing I will keep the full baffles.

With the baffles out its loud to the point of needing to shut it off before I turn into my drive at night to avoid disturbing the neighbors, and maybe needing to push it out to the curb before starting.  Not worth the effort.

Not to mention it seems kind of silly to have a 52HP bike louder than a race bike (although still quiet compared to being at a MotoGP race - those bikes are truly loud - you feel it in your chest).

Offline Socalrob

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2017, 04:18:40 PM »
Interesting.  The Agostini pipes on my V7 are plenty loud with baffles in.
I'm curious as to what might account to the difference.

Could be years of listening to rock n roll in my youth?  "Loud" may be as subjective as which windshield provides smooth air.

pete roper

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2017, 04:51:50 PM »
In these days of ultra lean factory tuning also aimed at noise reduction ahead of performance, I don't think that is completely true.  A moderately freer flowing pipe coupled with a ECU tune/remap can improve a bike's performance.  I know putting the termigoni slipons with the "racing" ECU really made my Hypermotard run much better.

My V7iii, by the way, had extremely few pops with the baffles in.  With the baffles out lots of popping in decel.  Of course that is without a remap, and supposedly the ECU will learn to some degree.

(Sigh.) Not the old 'The new bikes are all mapped up way too lean' argument. It's been explained a dozen times that isn't true. I really can't be bothered rehashing it all over again, it's just plain tiresome.


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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2017, 05:03:55 PM »
 Rob , listen to Pete . Him and Beetle have done more research into how modern small blocks work than probably anyone .

 Dusty

Offline MotoBug

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2017, 08:52:10 PM »
Socalrob, When the bike is warmed up and idling do you notice any black smoke if you blip the throttle? I've seen it a couple of times on my V7II with non standard mufflers but it seems to have gone now.

Offline Billy

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2017, 11:46:52 PM »
I wouldn't ride around san Francisco without baffles but I'd be fine going down Sydney road. Too much going on down there

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Offline Socalrob

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2017, 01:31:59 AM »
(Sigh.) Not the old 'The new bikes are all mapped up way too lean' argument. It's been explained a dozen times that isn't true. I really can't be bothered rehashing it all over again, it's just plain tiresome.

Sincerely sorry Pete, did not intend to cause offense.

Offline Socalrob

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2017, 01:33:11 AM »
Rob , listen to Pete . Him and Beetle have done more research into how modern small blocks work than probably anyone .

 Dusty

Got it. Lurk more, post less.  Thanks.

pete roper

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Re: Agostini pipes on a V7iii
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2017, 02:40:51 AM »
Sincerely sorry Pete, did not intend to cause offense.

God's teeth! No offence was taken! The problem is that there is this vast misconception that 'Modern Guzzis are mapped up lean to meet the dictates of the evil Gubmint whose sole aim in life is to screw everybody over. This sort of tinfoil hattest nonsense gives me the screaming shits.

Yes, the mixture in the closed loop portions of the map is very crudely trimmed to enable the engines to pass the nowadays stringent emissions requirements. Why 'Crudely'? Because 'Crudely' is cheap! If the factories were willing to spend a bit more money developing the actual MAPPING the way the motors run, the amount of fuel they will use and the overall behaviour of the bike would be greatly improved. Could they meet the very tight rules? Probably yes if the job was done right. Will they be able to with E5? Dunno.

The actual maps themselves though are almost universally rich. They are trimmed lean by the ECU by means of input from the narrow band lambda sensor. As long as the lambda input is left on it doesn't matter what pipe you put on, in the closed loop portion of the mapping the ECU will ALWAYS  trim the fuel to the same point it has been told is optimal.

Once out of the closed loop portion of the map the maps are built rich because a.) The factory knows that one of the first things noisy morons do is stick on louder pipes which with a heron or semi head design will tend to lean the mixture and they don't want a rash of holed pistons blotting their copy books and b.) by making them rich they run sub optimally meaning that if people fall off and try to sue because the bike was 'Too Powerful'l they have the evidence that they could of made it more powerful, (With a small block? Snigger!) but chose not to in the interests of safety etc, etc, blah, blah, blah Yes, this is a generalisation but it covers the pertinent issues.

If you want the engine to run optimally you have to turn off the lambda and build n open loop map for that pipe/engine/induction system. nasty little add-ons like sensor foolers don't work and can actually cause serious engine damage but they are popular because they are CHEAP. You pay peanuts? You get a monkey solution to a complex problem.

Fuel injection does NOT work like carburretors. Don't try and apply carburettor theory to a FI bike because you'll be on a hiding to nothing.

Good luck with whatever you try.

Pete
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:42:37 AM by pete roper »

 

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