Author Topic: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance  (Read 10102 times)

Offline guzzifan

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Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« on: February 01, 2015, 10:40:05 PM »
Is my T3 worth more with the original engine with a matching (to the frame) serial number?  I have a chance to sell my original engine for a very good profit and replace it with a spare engine I have the shelf…but this will result in a non-matching engine number.  This will have no bearing on the bikes registration as that is solely dependant on the frame number, which will remain unchanged.  Bike is a nice daily driver with a few minor mods.  Opinions please...

Offline Turin

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2015, 11:06:37 PM »
Is the new engine an upgrade? (displacement, performance, modern etc.)  If T-3s' become collectors items then, yes it will devalue it significantly. If the engine is an upgare then iy could add value.  ex: lemans motor in a T-3 good. T-3 motor in a lemans bad.
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2015, 08:56:05 AM »
All the T3s will be chopped into café racers long before they become collectors bikes, or valuable.

Since the matching engine is currently in the bike, why not just sell the non-matching spare that's sitting on the shelf?

Michael T.
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Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2015, 02:15:14 PM »
If memory serves the U.S. market was the only ones to get matching numbers.
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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2015, 02:15:14 PM »

Offline guzzifan

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2015, 03:00:10 PM »
Let me rephrase the question:

When last shopping for a T/T3/G5/etc, did it make a difference as to whether the engine serial number matched the frame number?  Would you offer less if it did not match?  What if the non-matching engine was in better nick, and maybe with a few performance upgrades?   

Eg). Stock 850 T3 with a stock motor with some miles on it (matching serial number engine). Or...
       Same bike with a fresh 1000cc motor with a cam and bigger carbs. (Non-matching serial numbered engine)

Will you pay more for one or the other?

Offline Groover

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2015, 03:15:44 PM »
I think it really depends on the future buyer. Someone may like the bigger and more powerful engine, whereas someone else may just be after the matching numbers and such. So it really depends on who is looking at the time of sale IMO. If the bike is 100% original, I'd maybe think twice on getting rid of the original engine. If the bike already has some replaced parts (e.g seat, bars, this and that) then I think the collector value has already changed and I don't think the matching numbers would make a huge difference in values.

That's just my cents. I'd say enjoy the bike they way you want it / like it, then cross that other bridge when you get there. Things, trends, etc. change quickly these days.

Good luck!
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Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2015, 03:17:15 PM »
I have bough three 70's era Guzzi's in as many years and never once looked at the engine number until I got home. I look for how complete the bike is and only care that the title and the VIN match. Motor numbers mean nothing to me.
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Offline injundave

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2015, 07:45:25 PM »
My '75 T3 has matching numbers, VD100674. Only thing is all the experts say that the T3 numbers start at VD11111. Huh?
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2015, 07:56:02 PM »
Let me rephrase the question:

When last shopping for a T/T3/G5/etc, did it make a difference as to whether the engine serial number matched the frame number?  Would you offer less if it did not match?  What if the non-matching engine was in better nick, and maybe with a few performance upgrades?   

Eg). Stock 850 T3 with a stock motor with some miles on it (matching serial number engine). Or...
       Same bike with a fresh 1000cc motor with a cam and bigger carbs. (Non-matching serial numbered engine)

Will you pay more for one or the other?

Let me rephrase my answer:

It really doesn't matter.  T3s aren't worth much money.  The hit for "value" of matching numbers could very well be offset by the non-matching engine being a better runner with more "value" to it than the worn out stocker.

And we're talking about a 40 year old bike that's worth a few thousand, worrying about a few hundred dollars difference in price...

Do what you want with it. 

 :bike
Michael T.
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Offline Turin

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2015, 08:19:08 PM »
All else equal, I'd probably buy the non matching #s bike with the hotter motor. I don't think there's to much of a chance of T-3s becoming a hot item any time soon so go for it!
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Offline Yeahoo Whoyah

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2015, 08:29:31 PM »
Quote
All the T3s will be chopped into café racers long before they become collectors bikes, or valuable.

Will...Or have already been modified into something else, like a LeMans look alike, cafe etc.

Quote
Insert Quote
I have bough three 70's era Guzzi's in as many years and never once looked at the engine number until I got home. I look for how complete the bike is and only care that the title and the VIN match.

 :+1

In the loop frame PD bikes, often the municipal motor pool put a good engine from a crashed bike into another with a bad engine. Mix and match.  It's all good unless it's a trailer queen show bike. 
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Offline cleatusj

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2015, 09:12:16 PM »
At the prices I buy bikes for and how I ride them, I don't worry about what they will sell for later.
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Offline injundave

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2015, 10:10:13 PM »
Let me rephrase my answer:

It really doesn't matter.  T3s aren't worth much money.  The hit for "value" of matching numbers could very well be offset by the non-matching engine being a better runner with more "value" to it than the worn out stocker.

And we're talking about a 40 year old bike that's worth a few thousand, worrying about a few hundred dollars difference in price...

Do what you want with it. 

 :bike

Do I detect just a hint of model snobbery here? But hey, keep thinking like that! One day when all the snobs realise just how good the old T's or T3's are and the prices go up, we who already love them will be laughing, especially when idiots have cut them all into cafe racers etc.
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2015, 11:12:50 PM »
Do I detect just a hint of model snobbery here? But hey, keep thinking like that! One day when all the snobs realise just how good the old T's or T3's are and the prices go up, we who already love them will be laughing, especially when idiots have cut them all into cafe racers etc.

Nah.  Just realism.  

I have the same problem with my Sport 1100.  There is as much money in go-fast goodies on the bike as what the bike would sell for.  And that ain't much.

In reality, it just doesn't matter for resale value if a T/T3/G5 has its original engine.  About the only Guzzis where it would matter are the few collectible ones like the V7/Lemans/Daytona/1000S, which currently sell for $10,000+.

On a bike that's worth something like $2,200 with matching numbers or $2,000 without, does it really matter?  

Personally, I think I would leave it numbers-matching.  But my feeling has nothing to do with $$$ value.  It has to do with the desire to have a few bikes around that arent' hacked up bitsa hotrods, so future generations might see and enjoy an original bike. The original question was concerning value, and personally I think we're talking nickels and dimes, and from that point of view it doesn't matter...
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 11:25:02 PM by rocker59 »
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Offline earemike

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2015, 12:33:56 AM »
I like matching numbers on an old bike & seeing a square fin in a V7 sport made me feel uneasy.

To be fair the owner had an arguably better engine in his old girl but it still wasn't my cup of tea. If you had an SP1000 motor in your T3 I wouldn't notice and you'd probably have a better ride so who am I to judge.

Just remember it's only original once! (although if the profit funds your bike maintenance and keeps it on the road longer that's a good thing).
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Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2015, 08:22:52 AM »


Just remember it's only original once! (although if the profit funds your bike maintenance and keeps it on the road longer that's a good thing).

I would venture to guess that any almost 40 year bike is not original. Buy'em to ride'em and customize them how you want. Life is too short and museum pieces are a waste of a good motorcycle.
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Offline Scott DeRoss

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2015, 09:54:57 AM »
I think matching numbers come into play either for a collector. Or when the bike in question is restored, and judged at like the AMA, then it is a must to have matching numbers. They will not even judge it with out that. That is the first thing they look for.
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Offline mtiberio

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2015, 10:08:42 AM »
I spent a bundle to have my Eldorado engine block (whose #s matched my frame #s) modified for an oil filter, and bored to take a 949cc kit to use in my Eldovert (Eldorado Automatic). Since my bike is a total frankenbike it was not done for resale. I did it for my amusement.
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2015, 02:31:26 PM »
When buying a vehicle I have never checked for matching engine and frame numbers.  I make sure the number cited in the title is correct, but otherwise the only reason I would care to view an engine number would be to verify what it is and what problems/features I might or might not be buying.  For examples, it would be good to know if my T engine has an oil filter before I buy, or that I'm looking at a solid or hydro engine.


Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Question re: matching frame/engine serial number importance
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2015, 02:48:03 PM »
I never checked the numbers on my 72 Eldorado but I was pleasantly surprised to find they are a match, I will keep it that way, It may not be worth any more but it is to me.
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