V7-II map upgrade.

[Vasco DG]

Loaded up the first factory upgrade for the V7-II to Clancy's bike a couple of weeks ago. Don't immediately know the map number, anyway, it runs like a bag of shit.

I got word today that the factory has issued another upgrade today, so any dealers should go in and upgrade PADS. I'll be doing that tonight and then trying the new map tomorrow. If that doesn't work I'll be warranting the proxy ECM.... GRRRRRRRRR!

[rocker59]

Do these upgrades also apply to 2013-2015 pre -II V7s ???

I need to have the map updated on my 2014, but don't need any bags of shite.

Map numbers would be appreciated.

[sib]

Loaded up the first factory upgrade for the V7-II to Clancy's bike a couple of weeks ago. Don't immediately know the map number, anyway, it runs like a bag of shit.

I got word today that the factory has issued another upgrade today, so any dealers should go in and upgrade PADS. I'll be doing that tonight and then trying the new map tomorrow. If that doesn't work I'll be warranting the proxy ECM.... GRRRRRRRRR!

Must be something different about the way air swirls into the throttle body below the equator.  Up here, my V7-II runs beautifully right out of the crate.  No need or desire for a map update.

I'd like to make a suggestion:  Change the spark plug gaps.  I've convinced myself that there's an error in the manuals regarding the spark plug gap.  The books say 0.6-0.7 mm.  Mine came from the factory with the gap that NGK recommends and supplies the plugs with, 0.9 mm.  After some experimenting, I decided that my bike runs significantly better at 0.9 mm than at 0.6-0.7 mm.

[rocker59]

Hmmm...   I always use .7mm gap, but will try the .9mm gap at my bike's first service.

[Cam3512]

Do these upgrades also apply to 2013-2015 pre -II V7s ???

I need to have the map updated on my 2014, but don't need any bags of shite.

Map numbers would be appreciated.

Mike,

That updated map # I sent you is a big improvement in the  superior '13-'14 models.
Get it done!

Cam

[Kev m]

They checked the TPS and the stepper motor, reset everything and sent me home without a fix.

I'm under the impression from Pete that these things (well at least the first version of the V7 1TB) don't have stepper motors?

[sib]

I'm under the impression from Pete that these things (well at least the first version of the V7 1TB) don't have stepper motors?

They do have stepper motors.  Here's a blurb from the Magneti-Marelli web site:

Mechatronic Integrated Unit (MIU)
Mechatronic system designed to support the “traditional” architecture and made by integrating the following components in the same unit:
•   Mechanic throttle body with diameters from 26 to 38mm and contactless potentiometer
•   stepper motor for minimum control management
•   air temperature sensor
•   intake conduit pressure sensor
•   control unit made using high-density SMD technology
•   integrated immobilizer system
The MIU can withstand operating temperatures from–30°C to +90°C under complete operational conditions and from -40°C to +105°C in the heat stroke and it is intended for installation on the engine by means of rubber sleeve in order to reduce the levels of vibrations.
The connections to the external input/output are carried out by means of a single connector with 34 ways.
The control unit pilots up to 2 injection channels and 2 independent ignition channels, DC-motor for throttle movement and for those versions that require it, the traction control management is integrated at the logic level. Mixing is controlled by means of 2 lambda probes of the heated ON/OFF type.
Engine management can be selected by the rider through two different “mappings”.
The MIU is designed for application to single-cylinder engines, but can also be used on twin-cylinder engines with single throttle body supply.
The system integrates all the main components of the injection system, ensuring a significant reduction in the number of components to be managed during the assembly and final testing phase of the engines/vehicles, with clear benefits in terms of production flexibility.

[rocker59]

Mike,

That updated map # I sent you is a big improvement in the  superior '13-'14 models.
Get it done!

Cam

I have that number, and plan to have the folks in Tulsa load that one, when I have a chance to ride over there.

Just want to make sure they don't load a "bad" one!  Like telling me the latest one is "better"!

[Kev m]

They do have stepper motors.  Here's a blurb from the Magneti-Marelli web site:

Mechatronic Integrated Unit (MIU)
Mechatronic system designed to support the “traditional” architecture and made by integrating the following components in the same unit:
•   Mechanic throttle body with diameters from 26 to 38mm and contactless potentiometer
•   stepper motor for minimum control management
•   air temperature sensor
•   intake conduit pressure sensor
•   control unit made using high-density SMD technology
•   integrated immobilizer system
The MIU can withstand operating temperatures from–30°C to +90°C under complete operational conditions and from -40°C to +105°C in the heat stroke and it is intended for installation on the engine by means of rubber sleeve in order to reduce the levels of vibrations.
The connections to the external input/output are carried out by means of a single connector with 34 ways.
The control unit pilots up to 2 injection channels and 2 independent ignition channels, DC-motor for throttle movement and for those versions that require it, the traction control management is integrated at the logic level. Mixing is controlled by means of 2 lambda probes of the heated ON/OFF type.
Engine management can be selected by the rider through two different “mappings”.
The MIU is designed for application to single-cylinder engines, but can also be used on twin-cylinder engines with single throttle body supply.
The system integrates all the main components of the injection system, ensuring a significant reduction in the number of components to be managed during the assembly and final testing phase of the engines/vehicles, with clear benefits in terms of production flexibility.

Where'd you find that, here:

http://www.magnetimarelli.com/business_areas/powertrain/motorbikes/ecu

I wish the listing was specific to the Guzzi application in the V7. I mean obviously everything in that description isn't applicable to the V7, such as:

Engine management can be selected by the rider through two different “mappings”.

So it's definitely a generic piece.

I would think it would be accurate, but I wonder why Pete seemed convinced after attending training there wasn't a stepper motor:

Kev, when I say 'Semi RBW' it's just my descriptor but it is fairly accurate.

The way it works is that the cables go to the MUI3G unit and when you twist the throttle it will have the effect of opening the throttle plate but only a small amount, say 5%. This is to enable one to 'Limp Home' if the demand sensor mechanism has a cow.

Really though any time the throttle is used and even at idle the plate is controlled electronically. That's the reason when you first start a single TB model some of them tend to cough and surge a bit. It's the throttle plate moving trying to maintain a constant idle by varying the air throughput, no stepper on the MUI3G.

I just wish the Guzzi manuals went into some of the operations of the unit. That would have been nice to get a more definitive answer from them.

<shrugs>

[Kev m]

I just wish people would quit derailing threads.

Yes, it sucks if a conversation doesn't stay only rigidly inline with a single topic and explores related subjects.

[rocker59]

Back on track, the "good map" that Cam turned me onto is:  352BV738.

That applies to pre -II bikes.   I don't know if maps are different for the -II bikes.

[cmgies]

Back on track, the "good map" that Cam turned me onto is:  352BV738.

That applies to pre -II bikes.   I don't know if maps are different for the -II bikes.

This is the map that I have fairly recently had installed by Portland Moto Guzzi on my 2013 V7 Special and it works really well.

[sib]

Back on track, the "good map" that Cam turned me onto is:  352BV738.

That applies to pre -II bikes.   I don't know if maps are different for the -II bikes.

That was the software update that was installed on my '13 Stone in November '14 and it worked really well.  I don't now what software number my '16 Stone has, but it works well.  I doubt it is the same number, because the number refers to the whole software package, not just the map, and the V7-II's presumably have added software, to accommodate the ABS and TC systems.

[Vasco DG]

MUIG3 doesn't have a separate stepper. It may use an air over idle system but idle itself, judging from the way the engine behaves, would seem to be spark controlled. At least it behaves identically to the Cali. This is I think the cause of the idle surge rather than movement of the throttle plate at idle as I'd first assumed. Needless to say what we are told by the factory is minimal and we have to work most of this stuff out by deductin. It's very frustrating.

Maps for the V7 and V7-II are different and not interchangeable. The map upgrade for the earlier non ABS/TC bikes addresses some of the cold start issues and works well. It's only this new map for the II that has caused an issue.

Pete

[pauldaytona]

The

V7 > 20XX MUI3 ecu   3523V702 ??
V7 > 2012 MUI3 ecu   3523V7J1  Dry generator japan   11/04/2014
V7 > 2012 MUI3 ecu   352BV738    Dry generator       11/04/2014
V7 > 2014 MUI3 ecu  352BV737 generator in oil    11/04/2014

V7-II 4533V740 stock
V7-II 4533V795   Bad
V7-II 4533V796 released 18/09/2015 > latest Ok


So now we have newer maps? Please read the numbers so we know what map we are talking about.

Ask the dealer what map was before and after update. Or look with guzzidiag.

Here in this picture, found in other topic, the left down 4th line is map ID, 3523V702


 

[rocker59]

Paul,

Remember that 2014 USA models had the dry alternator.

2015 USA models got the wet alternator.

So, there is some overlap in our discussion.  I'm in The USA with a 2014 V7 Special, which has a dry alternator.

[pauldaytona]

Paul,

Remember that 2014 USA models had the dry alternator.

2015 USA models got the wet alternator.

So, there is some overlap in our discussion.  I'm in The USA with a 2014 V7 Special, which has a dry alternator.

it's just USA is always one year behind. Then things fit. When was yours made exactly? If you don't know pm me your vin or enginenumber

[rocker59]

it's just USA is always one year behind. Then things fit. When was yours made exactly? If you don't know pm me your vin or enginenumber

I'm away from the bike, but I think it was July 2013.  I'll PM you the VIN code, though.

[pauldaytona]

The
352BV738 V7- MY12-14 (USA) (dry stator)
352BV737 V7- MY 2015 (USA) (oil bath stator- new stator inside timing
cover)

came out November 2014 as update over PADS, at what time they got into production line??

They had:
-Improved start consent signal management;
-Improved idle management.

[Vasco DG]

PADS updates come out fairly regularly and tend to actually go out on a Sunday as they become available here on Monday! Who know why? You update by connecting to the web, the tooling detects there is an update and asks if you want to download it. You have to choose to download it. It doesn't do it automatically.

Pete

[Vasco DG]

Latest map release for V7-II is 4533V796 released 18/09/2015

Pete

[Clancy]

My bike ran great out of the crate.
It was only after the new (previous) map was loaded that things went to shit.
I'm heading out now to have the latest map installed.

[Vasco DG]

First map update was 4533V795 DO NOT LOAD UP THIS MAP! this is the one that turned Craig's bike into a huge turd!

We've just slipped the 4533V796 map in, the latest release, and you can hear it's happier already. The biggest problem was on cold start with the 795. It was awful. Craig also had a no-start situation in Sydney last weekend, outside Motocicolo, most embarrassing! Anyway, a quick trip up the hill and preliminary reports are that the bike has returned to its previous smooth running self. We'll have to wait for a cold start to find out if it's done away with the start up silliness.

Anyway, if you visit your dealer make sure if they are going to upload a new map it is the 796 and NOT the 795 update.

Pete

[rocker59]

Thanks Pete!   

[Vasco DG]

Thanks, Pete.  As soon as my bike is on two wheels again (the forks are off getting cartridges), I'll give the dealer a call.

Craig might be interested in the Adeani cartridges down the track. Where and 'emmuch?

Pete

[Vasco DG]

Yes, very much.  If I can't get it to run right with OEM software, I'm going to have to go visit the Rexxer guy and I really don't want to.

While I'm sure someone competent using Rexxer Pro will be able to build a good map for the MUIG3 it will have to be bike specific WRT the controller as the wet and dry alt bikes require difference maps, (I can't work out why that is but it is.) and the V7-II will definitely need another map built with different parameters due to the inclusion of ABS/TC.

I'm hoping to be able to use Christian's new software to *Sniff* the MUIG3 map upload on an air cooled alt V7 later this week. We tried an earlier version on Craig's V7-II with the first map update but is saved the wrong type of file. Once that is done it will hopefully be a short hop to being able to build our own maps and circumvent all the government imposed silliness. If he can mimic the results achieved for the W5AM we should be able to look forward to better performance and lower fuel consumption at the very least.

Pete

[stomatomoto]

  ZOMG YOU GUYS 

I was just going to make a post about this. It's totally true, after my 620 mile service, shit has definitely gotten worse for Lil' Nero (working title). It's died on me for no reason after startup numerous times now, and it's just rough and horrible and sounds like it's dying all the time now. What the actual f***. How can this shit happen?! Who lets stuff just leave a factory like that, that busted? I made a video of it today actually, uploading it here just because I need to share it with you glorious folks who actually know stuff about things n' junk.

The video doesn't capture the *ugh*-ness that's been added since the mapping when I rev it more, and this video is actually of a tamer instance of this new behavior (I assume because it's been sitting out in 90+ degree weather in the sun so it's warmer maybe?). Anyway, I cringe each time I watch this, and don't mock my vertical video, this is like the 4th time in 3 years I've shot a video of any kind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4YN5ZZSwoA

[Vasco DG]

Haven't seen the vid yet but if it's as bad as Clancy's bike it would be a pathetic embarrassment! Hi thee hence to your dealer and make sure they have updated PADS so you can get the latest map. As I've said elsewhere the jury will be out until Craig gives me/us some feedback but the first 'Upgrade' was a disaster!

Is yours  harsh and vibratory and fouling the back of the pipes with soot! Craig's was, f'in horrible. Like riding a cheap sex-aid with a serious tobacco and crack habit!

Pete

[sib]

I don't want to start a panic here, but I has it occurred to me that this map confusion may be similar to the problem that VW is having now with their diesel engines.  Maybe the lousy maps are sent out to get the bikes to comply with air pollution limits, and the maps that run well increase pollution to illegal levels.  Map-gate.

[Jim C]

Pete,

Just curious...

What does the 796 Map address, since I don't
have a dealer down the street?