Author Topic: 1977 Le Mans running and on the road  (Read 90079 times)

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #330 on: December 06, 2017, 06:48:42 PM »
Looks great!

"I had to carefully bend the steel ends of the tach and speedo cables to turn 90 degrees and clear the headlight bucket"

How did you do that?!  all the tubing benders I've used bend further from the end.

You're patience and attention to detail are admirable.

I pulled the inner cable out, set the steel cable end into a vice and then fitted a small diameter tube over the cable steel end. I gently pulled the steel pipe towards me in increments moving the cable steel section. It actually bent quite easily.

Offline SED

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #331 on: December 06, 2017, 10:42:03 PM »
 :thumb:
I pulled the inner cable out, set the steel cable end into a vice and then fitted a small diameter tube over the cable steel end. I gently pulled the steel pipe towards me in increments moving the cable steel section. It actually bent quite easily.

 :thumb:  Good job - I woulda kinked it!
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #332 on: December 14, 2017, 10:18:48 PM »
fitted the new adjusters




The choke cables also arrived today, unfortunate they are slightly different, one is slightly too long





I shortened an old adjuster and used it as a spacer on the 'long' cable



works fine



I routed the right choke cable forward





Left cable facing rear and comes around the inside of the carb





fitted the fuel hose clamps





and as I finished off the work and installed the side cover the weak fiberglass tab broke

I mixed up some epoxy and used a steel shim as reinforcing





Some filler, sanding and paint and hopefully its a good and stronger repair




Les P

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #333 on: December 14, 2017, 10:29:25 PM »
A truly inspiring thread and great workmanship also.
Writing the thread and stopping along the way to take all the photo's would be no small task either, a project in itself.
Thanks for another great read to date.  :thumb: :thumb:

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #333 on: December 14, 2017, 10:29:25 PM »

Offline Huzo

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #334 on: December 14, 2017, 10:35:42 PM »
A truly inspiring thread and great workmanship also.
Writing the thread and stopping along the way to take all the photo's would be no small task either, a project in itself.
Thanks for another great read to date.  :thumb: :thumb:
Damn right.
He's re-set the standard for this type of stuff..
Double bastard on the broken tab, he doesn't deserve that sort of crap.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:37:44 PM by Huzo »

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #335 on: December 14, 2017, 11:05:05 PM »
There are a lot of variants of Guzzi clhole cables from that era. I could never find the correct right side replacement for my G5 (2nd gen, rubber manifolds). Looks like you found a great solution to make yours work.
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Offline TRw1

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #336 on: December 15, 2017, 05:07:48 AM »
Nice fixes!  Seems like the simplest things usually are the ones that turn into much more work than intended.

Agree with everyone else....this is a great thread to follow.  Thanks

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #337 on: December 15, 2017, 11:01:52 PM »
I started to add the fluids, rear drive gear oil with a moly additive, transmission gear fluid and then starting to bleed the brakes.

I fitted speed bleeders to all six of the caliper bleed nipples. The rear master cylinder and left front / rear caliper bled OK, took some time but eventually I found a few leaks / loose fittings that needed tightening and  the air bubbles ended.

The front master cylinder / right front caliper has been another storey, the rebuilt master cylinder will not hold enough pressure to bleed out the front caliper. I stripped it down twice and can't find anything wrong but it just won't hold. I assume the bore was just too worn and the seal kit won't do its job. I order an new Brembo master cylinder this evening to replace the old original one/

canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #338 on: December 16, 2017, 05:49:22 PM »
A couple more passes of epoxy filler



Genuine Moto Guzzi Le Mans touch up paint :grin:





several coats over the repair and its presentable



Luckily the tab is hidden for the most part by the brake arm and the shadow of the cover

The tab seems to be much stronger now with the steel shim and the epoxy filling in the whole of the back side.

Now waiting on a new Master Cylinder to come from MG Cycle. I am giving up on rebuilding master cylinders, not worth the trouble on 40 year old precision parts.


Offline balvenie

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #339 on: December 16, 2017, 06:02:01 PM »
Thanks Jim for that Nail polish tip. Would never have thought of it :grin:
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #340 on: December 16, 2017, 07:39:04 PM »
Thanks Jim for that Nail polish tip. Would never have thought of it :grin:

My painter recommended it, he says touch up paint is usually too thin and does not adhere that well.

He swears by nail polish, another reason to stick with shades of red on all of one bikes! :smiley:
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 10:30:06 AM by canuck750 »

Offline Bucky

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #341 on: December 17, 2017, 02:54:01 PM »
Been lurking this thread for awhile, and have learned a lot. The detail in this rebuild is outstanding, a great resource for future reference, at least for those who have the skills which doesn't include me.
Way beyond my abilities, but certainly appreciate the time and effort put into this labor of love.

Jim, you sir, are a craftsman. Excellent work :thumb:
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #342 on: December 19, 2017, 03:21:16 PM »
Thanks for the kind words Bucky!

I am trouble shooting the electrical, the original Le Mans switch gear is poor quality, the electrical contact surfaces and the soft plastic that supports them warp and make for problematic contact. I have the switches apart, again, and am trying to improve on the function of the sliding mechanism and supplementing the wee ground tabs that make contact with the handlebars for a dedicated hard wire ground to the frame. I would abandon the switch gear if it were a regular rider but for the sake of originality I am going to try and make this 40 year old Italian stuff work, hopefully reliably.

I had installed and original starter relay, its crap as well and I have given in to stock and fitted a modern 5 tab relay that Greg Bender supplied, same for the light relays. At least now the signal lights flash, the park lights work and the brake light functions as it should, horns are nice and loud. Headlights are a no show, again I suspect its the crappy ground tab on the inside of the switch failing to make contact to ground through the handlebars.

Starter button is intermittent, the push button starter completes a ground circuit, again through the handlebars, same problem as the left hand switches and the engine stop slide hardly locks into a neutral position.

Back to basics, provide a dedicated ground wire to every component (as I did for the signal lights), ensure continuity of ground to frame, replace old relays with sealed new ones, and makes sure the switches actually switch.

Getting the electrical to be trouble free is the least desirable part of a rebuild for me. If I could farm out this step I would, trouble is the one time I did send a bike to a local 'expert' I found he knew less than I did about Guzzi electrical. This is when I wish I lived in Vancouver or Kiwi Roy lived in Edmonton!!!

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #343 on: December 19, 2017, 04:09:53 PM »
I've been examining my recently acquired LM4s and their switches to see what can be done to fix them and/or make them better; I thought the factory G5 ones (Lego switches) were crappy, but by comparison those seem rock solid now. The repros the LM4/5 are not being made yet (or ever?), so replacements is not really an option. Like you, I'm sure there are good solutions (use something else) but the intent in my case is also to do a restoration and keep as much as factory as possible.

My point, really none  :azn:

« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 04:10:40 PM by Groover »
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #344 on: December 20, 2017, 09:47:41 AM »
Le Mans switch gear, on top of being ergonomically challenged, made of both soft and hard plastic components that tend to deform have the wires elegantly run through the handlebars, looks good but the wires have to make some sharp bends and removal / replacement can wear the wire insulation, case in point the head light switch which is just strange to begin with



This rocker switch locks into the clutch perch and the wires from the switch exit under the base of the fixed plastic center, are 5 wires wide and the wires must bunch up to the width of two wires and turn 90 degrees into the handlebar, then the wires must remain centered while the switch slides into the clutch perch recess, sounds plausible  but in practice it's asking a lot. Then there is the switch mechanism itself, the rocker has a thumb release lock that pushes and slides to allow the rocker to rotate, the metal contacts have to align with the connector tabs and so on....



I got the lights to work for a few flicks of the switch and back to nothing again. I have had the switch and wires out three times, back to the work bench and try and figure out where the wires may be broken, contacts not contacting etc.

This is why so few Le Mans have their original switch gear.

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #345 on: December 20, 2017, 10:35:30 AM »
Wish I had taken photos of the G5 one. Though different that that, I'm thinking it functions similarly. In my case, I popped off a brass slider plate connected to the light switch lever, which is pressured by a tiny ball and spring to make the contact on the "rivets" where the wires terminate. The plate was worn, so to fix it in my case, I sanded the plate flat (to removed the worn-in grooves), then I added a spacer plate under the factory slider plate, above the tiny ball to add a little more pressure. Seemed to work, but I also don't really trust it to last...
1981 Moto Guzzi V1000G5
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #346 on: December 20, 2017, 09:54:13 PM »
After a lot more head scratching I think I have the lights figured out. When Luigi designed the Le Mans wire harness he had only so many colours of wire to work with and in this case the white with black stripe wire is used for two different purposes at the main block couplers, there is a white/black stripe wire that connects to a ground tab on the frame and then works its way through the headlight harness as a ground for the headlight. In the same bundle is another white / black stripe that ends up at the starter button coming from the starter relay. Both of these wires come out of the same big bundle and both have female connectors, on my harness the starter and ground white / black stripe were mixed up.



The headlight was being fed with the wire heading back to the starter relay and the starter had the headlight ground, simple huh! So often the solution is so simple but the pursuit so complicated.

To my relief the headlight works both low and high beam, signal lights flash and the gauge lights work, hurrah!

Now just to get the starter button working consistently.

Offline Bucky

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #347 on: December 21, 2017, 08:30:49 AM »
 :thumb:

Good catch!  I would have never thought that original wiring would use a same color wire for two different purposes.
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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #348 on: December 23, 2017, 12:38:24 PM »
My Christmas present from MG Cycle came just in time, a new Brembo front master cylinder and brake lever



MG Cycle states to only use DOT3 on these, don't know why that would be but I purged the Dot 4 out of the brake line and caliper and charged up the system. Brake bled easily with the new master cylinder.



I took your advice Groover and added a small section of rubber sheet under the brass contact of the OFF switch, it now has a positive side to side click.



I needed to order some new MOLEX pins, after swapping the white / black wires they will not lock into the plug so they need to be replaced. I have a short to chase on the right rear signal.

The Le Mans will be shown at the International Motorcycle Show when it comes to Edmonton on January 12th and after that I will fire it up and go through the tuning.

Merry Christmas to everyone! and wishing you all the very best in 2018.

Cheers

Jim
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 03:32:08 PM by canuck750 »

Offline Bucky

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #349 on: December 23, 2017, 12:55:39 PM »
 :drool:

......and a Merry Christmas to you!
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Offline TRw1

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #350 on: December 25, 2017, 05:39:28 AM »
I'll second that....

Merry Christmas Jim and to all those following this thread.

Offline timmythecop

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #351 on: December 25, 2017, 05:12:14 PM »
Are you not worried about using the blinker stalks for your tie downs?
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Offline Huzo

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #352 on: December 25, 2017, 05:15:19 PM »
Are you not worried about using the blinker stalks for your tie downs?
Closer inspection will reveal, that the metal hooks loop into fabric straps that go up and around the top clamp.

twowings

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #353 on: December 25, 2017, 08:25:35 PM »
What a sweetheart! Congrats and hope your New Year is bright with promise... :thumb:

Offline timmythecop

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #354 on: December 25, 2017, 10:52:56 PM »
Closer inspection will reveal, that the metal hooks loop into fabric straps that go up and around the top clamp.
Check. I should have known you would be doing that right, judging by everything else.
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Offline Huzo

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #355 on: December 25, 2017, 11:58:16 PM »
Check. I should have known you would be doing that right, judging by everything else.
yeah it would have been unusual to say the least.

Offline Psychopasta

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #356 on: December 26, 2017, 01:44:37 PM »
Getting the electrical to be trouble free is the least desirable part of a rebuild for me.

Hey Canuck,

I'm really getting a lot out of watching your rebuild. Your attention to detail and desire to attain restoration nirvana are an inspiration!

But...  :boozing:

Getting a Guzzi's switchgear and other electricals to work well is a serious challenge. IMHO, Guzzi makes great engines and frames, and even the suspension can be upgraded while still looking stock, but they seem to have just wired the bike up with spaghetti and lego. Which is unfair to both spaghetti and lego: both are excellent products, but never intended for electrical duty on a motorcycle.

My personal preference is to gut the original electrics and rewire completely, with Japanese switchgear, solid state reg/rectifiers and nowadays an m-Unit to handle all the flashing/honking/starting utilities.

So my hat's off to you for persevering with the originals. Self-harm never looked so good  :bow:


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canuck750

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #357 on: December 27, 2017, 10:12:40 AM »
Hey Canuck,

I'm really getting a lot out of watching your rebuild. Your attention to detail and desire to attain restoration nirvana are an inspiration!

But...  :boozing:

Getting a Guzzi's switchgear and other electricals to work well is a serious challenge. IMHO, Guzzi makes great engines and frames, and even the suspension can be upgraded while still looking stock, but they seem to have just wired the bike up with spaghetti and lego. Which is unfair to both spaghetti and lego: both are excellent products, but never intended for electrical duty on a motorcycle.

My personal preference is to gut the original electrics and rewire completely, with Japanese switchgear, solid state reg/rectifiers and nowadays an m-Unit to handle all the flashing/honking/starting utilities.

So my hat's off to you for persevering with the originals. Self-harm never looked so good  :bow:


- Pasta

You nailed the Guzzi electrical, very apt description.
Rebuilding my Laverda SF1 was a treat with its Japanese switch gear and instruments that actually work as intendeded. The Moto Morini 500 I am working on has a miss mash of CEV components that make the Le Mans electrical look modern.

I have the original switch gear on to show the bike. If I were to ride it regularly I think  I would put on modern switch gear.

Cheers

Jim


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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #358 on: December 27, 2017, 08:40:45 PM »
Getting a Guzzi's switchgear and other electricals to work well is a serious challenge. IMHO, Guzzi makes great engines and frames, and even the suspension can be upgraded while still looking stock, but they seem to have just wired the bike up with spaghetti and lego. Which is unfair to both spaghetti and lego: both are excellent products, but never intended for electrical duty on a motorcycle.

My personal preference is to gut the original electrics and rewire completely, with Japanese switchgear, solid state reg/rectifiers and nowadays an m-Unit to handle all the flashing/honking/starting utilities.


All of the original switches on my Convert worked perfectly, but they're an ergonomic nightmare, so I sold them for $300 and bought a pair of K&S switches instead.

IMO, there's really nothing wrong with the wiring itself, but time and the environment take their toll. I replaced a bunch of the terminals, but most of the original wire was retained. Only that from the alternator to the diode board was replaced. I did use a solid-state regulator.

My Morini K2 has all of it's original electrics except for the headlight/horn/signal switch. The original was busted, so I used a "Minda" switch from Stucchi that someone gave me. The electrics have been flawless - impressive considering the hard life the bike lead previously. 
Charlie

Offline timmythecop

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Re: 1977 Le Mans Rebuild almost done
« Reply #359 on: December 28, 2017, 01:40:57 AM »
IMO, there's really nothing wrong with the wiring itself, but time and the environment take their toll.

In the mid 80's my V65 Lario was doing strange stuff. Like left blinker when you hit the horn, hi beam flash when you hit right blinker, etc.  I though, "no problem, I'll get a manual and slowly and carefully go through the wires and figure it out"

So I open up the area behind the clocks and NO JOKE, all the wires were black.  It was like my bike was made at 4:45 on a Friday and they were out of different colour wires.  I did end up fixing it. It was the ignition switch, if I remember correctly.
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