If you are not familair with small-blocks, please...

[danomar]

...Let someone else work on it.




private image upload


Apparently the V65 Lario does not work well with an additional quart of oil. 

Luckily (LUCKILY he writes) it appears that most of the gunk is burned oil. I think. Very little if any metal.

I dropped the pan and there is ridiculously awful black gunk in it slowly draining out before I even try to clean it out. It looks as if someone put moly in the oil, but lord only knows what it is. The previous owner certainly did not.

Has anyone ever tried using an oil flush on the Lario or a small-block motor?

I planned to get some cheap oil and sacrifice it and a filter to try to clean out the insides, but an oil flush would be better. Ideas?

TIA

Daniel

[lucian]

I would say a leakdown test is in order. Looks like products of combustion getting by the rings or valves. 

[Diploman]

Nasty looking!  I have never heard of a Guzzi undergoing oil-flush, but yours would be a good candidate if you can devise a way to do it.  Please post pics if you do.

As suggested, I think a useful first step would be to do a compression test to ascertain whether the valves and rings are holding or leaking.  Given the suspect nature of previous lubrication, checking the status of bearings and seals would also be wise.

For more pertinent Lario-specific advice, any of the WG members in this thread (and others) could certainly provide relevant guidance based on the results of your early investigations:

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=98265.0

[malik]

Could be worse.

[twowheeladdict]

I bought a '65 Falcon Futura with a 389 for $100 in 1981.  Started on the first bump. 

New maypop tires, shocks, and an oil change were needed.  The oil change place couldn't pump oil in the way they normally do because they had to wait for the oil to seep down to the pan which required patience.   

The car served as my rain vehicle for 4 years before I sold it a guy with a family that needed it more than I did. 

[frozengoose]

...Let someone else work on it.

I dropped the pan and there is ridiculously awful black gunk in it slowly draining out before I even try to clean it out. It looks as if someone put moly in the oil, but lord only knows what it is. The previous owner certainly did not.

Has anyone ever tried using an oil flush on the Lario or a small-block motor?

I planned to get some cheap oil and sacrifice it and a filter to try to clean out the insides, but an oil flush would be better. Ideas?

TIA

Daniel

Back in the day I often bought older cars, trucks, and bikes. Invariably the oil would come out black, like molasses in January as they say. I figured it was just from a lack of oil changes, so would put in a change of lighter weight oil, say 20 or 30 wt, then just run it until it warmed up good and dump the oil, then fill it with whatever wt oil it called for. Sometimes I'd do it twice with the old Triumphs, cause they didn't have an oil filter. Short of tearing down the engine, It seemed like a decent way to clean out the sludge.

[Roebling3]

The aforementioned to-do's are good starting points, but how much time & $$ have you? IOW: What you see in the sump is totally duplicated and displaced throughout the engine. I doubt, very much, it can be flushed with any degree of success. And there's no way of knowing you have done any good until it runs again and you have won the lottery.
Every oil galley is loaded and every bearing in that engine has been exposed to an to abrasive mixture. What may be Moly more likely is aluminum; off the cylinder walls and/or, pistons. There's no doubt steel particulate is in the sludge as well. Pull both heads b4 doing anything. Send us pictures.
    Sadly, having seen such b4, I call it trashed.
BTW: Molybdenum is sticky for a reason. Too much is a bad thing. It can build up and cause blockage in tight corners w/out enough turbulent flow. R3~

[sign216]

Could be worse.

Malik, What caused this?


And for all, maybe some Seafoam or Marvel Mystery would help.

[danomar]

Could be worse.

Yep, I think you have me beat with that example! 

[Muzz]

From my time as a teacher who also ran an automotive class, we used to get the manager of Valvoline here in Christchurch in to give lectures on oils.

He did cover something like this.  Early oils did not have anything much in the way of a detergent package.  You fossils from the early days would remember how happy you were when the oil came out clean.  As he pointed out, that meant all the rubbish stayed inside the engine as sludge or deposits.  A lot of older engines only had bypass filters and really ones, none at all.  If the oil had not been changed for some time, and the a high detergent oil was put in, all this sludge and deposits were either dissolved or flaked off.

From memory, the oil film is about nine microns thick, and filters are supposed to take anything above five microns thick out; anything less doesn't matter because it is smaller than the oil film.  In a perfect world then, the flakes etc would sit in the bottom of the sump and the particles would be filtered out.

In actual life, the bigger flakes and particles block the screen, the particles in suspension go through the pump and the mains/big ends before they are actually filtered and the motor ends up damaged.

His message was, change your oil regularly, use a quality filter,  if your oil comes out black then it's doing it's job and of course , use good quality Valvoline oil.

I must say, the support Valvoline gave me in running that class was outstanding, and other than the Breva where Valvoline don't actually make the correct oil, I still use their products in all my other vehicles and equipment and have never had a lube failure.

[malik]

Malik, What caused this?

This was the carbed Nevada I bought for the frame - a rod had punched holes in the crankcase. One of the con rod caps on the big end had come off (& broke in two), the rod had jumped the crank & jammed the other one. All sorts of destruction in there. In dismantling the bike, it's my opinion that it had been serially abused in its 60,00km odd lifespan. The previous owner, young & inexperienced, only got 500km out of it before it disintegrated under her.

[sign216]

This was the carbed Nevada I bought for the frame - a rod had punched holes in the crankcase. One of the con rod caps on the big end had come off (& broke in two), the rod had jumped the crank & jammed the other one. All sorts of destruction in there. In dismantling the bike, it's my opinion that it had been serially abused in its 60,00km odd lifespan. The previous owner, young & inexperienced, only got 500km out of it before it disintegrated under her.

Okay.  Sounds like the previous owner got rooked, buying an abused engine ready to fail.  She didn't know what she got into.

Joe

[jbell]

I've heard ATF is a good detergent.  Pull plugs, put in gear and get the rear wheel turning to make the oil pump push the ATF through the engine. Don't know if this is good advice, just something I heard a long time ago.  Maybe the more knowledgeable can comment.