Wildguzzi.com
General Category => Bike Builds, Rebuilds And Restorations Only => Topic started by: Rick4003 on January 13, 2016, 10:28:48 AM
-
Hi Guys, and girls if we have any :grin:
I have been in the progress of ruining a perfectly almost running T5 and build it into my dream bike, it won't be anything remotely like a T5 as the only parts that are carried over is the engine, gearbox, frame and rear swing arm. All other parts comes from other Guzzis or made for the bike.
I originally bought a caf�d T5 as it looked absolutely amazing. I knew when I bought it that it would be nearly impossible getting registered and road legal as it stood.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG0363.jpg)
This is the bike as I bought it. Chopped frame, removed lower frame rails, converted to mono shock, USD fork, 17" wheels, too modified to have a chance to get it MOT'ed in Denmark.
The plan was to find a new unmolested frame and transfer all the good parts to that and get some good twin shocks to compliment the fork. After searching for a frame a while I found one from a 1978 T3 with German papers. The guy selling it wanted 700$ for the bare frame. Bearing in mind that with the German frame I still had to get the finished bike thru the Danish MOT system and get a value estimate which they use for determining how much you have to pay in "Registreingsafgift" (Registration tax) to legally use it on Danish roads I decided that the 700$ was way more than what I wanted to pay. (The estimates vary wildly and would be expected to be around 1000$ or more.)
So no luck finding a frame at first :undecided:
Sometime later I found a cheap 850T5 that looked pretty unloved but was registered in Denmark. So I made an even cheaper offer and the seller agreed to the deal.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG0048.jpg)
This is the bike I picked up in dire need for some TLC.
While the bike looks okay on the pictures it was running very rough and needed to have new tires and a bunch of other work to get it thru the MOT. First plan was to change the front tire and get the bike running well enough to get the MOT. But after several tries to get it running smoothly I ran out of time and out of patience. The wiring loom was completely botched by the previous owner and would need some serious work to get sorted out. (Every time I fixed something on it something else broke or stopped working�)
I ditched the idea of getting the bike road worthy in the state it was in and put it away as I had run out of time.
I work in the cement business and am working aboard so I can only work on the bike in my spare time. Off to work I was� :sad:
Fast forward to next vacation:
Started taking both bikes apart.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1010.jpg)
Stripped both bikes to bare frames and removed some of the unneeded brackets from the green bikes frame, added some new brackets for mounting points for seat and electric box.
Frame just after being picked up from the sandblaster:
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1034.jpg)
End of vacation�
A small mistake I made was that I didn't know that Guzzi changed the Tonti frame to the tall headstock in between 1984 and 1985.
So I have one of each... Which means that the USD fork could not be used as it was not possible to modify it to fit on the frame with the tall headstock.
I found the solution in a guy who sold a brand new 45mm Marzocchi fork for the tall head stock. I don't actually know which exact model it comes from. I'm guessing a Cali aluminium or a Cali Sport.
Of course the spacers and wheel axle didn't fit from the old USD fork, so I had to turn new spacers and modify an old Guzzi rear axle to get everything to fit together.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1031.jpg)
Front wheel finally on the fork.
On to the build finally:
I haven't been very good at taking pictures of the progress with putting the bike together again but here are rest of the pictures up to the point where I am now.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1196.jpg)
Showing the three new brackets to mount seat and electronic box.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1197.jpg)
New timing cover gets sodablasted to match the rest of the engine.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1211.jpg)
First trial fit of tank and seat.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1230.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1234.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1235.jpg)
Motogadget M-unit v.2 and finished electrics box.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1240.jpg)
Vroom Vroom :bike-037:
End of Christmas holidays. back to work.
This is as far as I got this time. I still have a lot of work on the wiring and I need to get a new regulator/rectifier plus paint and all the finishing touches. Front and rear fenders and so on. I haven't really decided if I want to use the seat or not yet.
I have a ton of questions I will need some of you good folks to give your opinion on and are looking forward to get the bike on the road.
English is not my mother tongue so forgive me if there is some grammatical errors or misspellings, I try my best :laugh:
I welcome all the suggestions, opinions and ideas you might have that would improve my project. Even if you don't like it :grin:
Let the lynching begin! :grin: :whip2:
-
I sure do like your returning some of the period look to it. Getting rid of the awful downward streaking exhaust, the USD forks and getting back to dual shocks are great aesthetic improvements even if the previous might have had some advantages.
What did you end up doing with that wonderful fairing from the 850 donor? Looks like a nice set-up.
Todd.
-
No lynching here. Looks great!
Maybe I'm just a partner in crime though. I blew up my LM III last spring (lost oil while riding, found out later i'd also developed a bad oil pressure sender, no idiot light, freeway in heavy traffic, disaster, honestly just glad to be alive), it's currently getting a new mill, cosmetic makeover and won't be an LM III any more. I'm saving the original motor for a rebuild in the future and not cutting the frame, but it's still heresy to most I'd imagine. Oh well....
Keep up the updates.
-
It is very nice to see that you are making something better, keep up the good work. There is nothing wrong with your grammar and spelling, infact it is better than a lot of native english speaking people! DonG
-
Me thinks you still have a worthy project bike with the original bike frame you started with. Just not sure what, but you can sort that out when this project is finished. :grin:
-
Your English is fine, no need to apologize for that, and I admire your ambition.
My only suggestion is about the seat, which (to my eye) seems to come up too far on the tank and spoils the "lines" of the design.
It's a cool project, and already looking good!
-
I'm looking forward to seeing more! What was involved with adding the new front end?
I have an '85 call II and I want to upgrade the front end. How hard was it to source the front end?
-
Gift = tax? Interesting.
Actually it is "afgift" that means tax, or it is just a other word for tax.
"Gift" means married and it also means poison, read what you like from that :laugh:
The proper danish word for tax is "Skat" which is also a common thing to call your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend as it also means tresure.
The danish language is a funny one, lots of words have more than one meaning and often they are complete contradictions.
-
Your bike looks great, I like the retro look as well. I think I would have kept the front end from the original custom though.
I did a similar build on an 850T a few years ago.
http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/jwalano/slideshow/950S
-
Actually it is "afgift" that means tax, or it is just a other word for tax.
"Gift" means married and it also means poison, read what you like from that :laugh:
The proper danish word for tax is "Skat" which is also a common thing to call your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend as it also means tresure.
The danish language is a funny one, lots of words have more than one meaning and often they are complete contradictions.
Danes also don't say Copenhagen , comes out like Koovenhagen .
Dusty
-
Looks good, I really like the clean electrical box and wiring.
-
Your bike looks great, I like the retro look as well. I think I would have kept the front end from the original custom though.
I did a similar build on an 850T a few years ago.
http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/jwalano/slideshow/950S
I kind of wanted to keep the USD front end, but as the "new" stock frame I bought had the tall headstock, so I couldn't use the original front end. I tried to go thru all the possible solutions for getting it to work. But in the end, it was not worth it. So I bought the Mazocchi fork instead.
The difference between the old short headstock and the newer tall headstock is 50mm. 170mm for the old type and 220mm for the newer type. If I lowered the bottom triple tree by 50mm the bike would be standing completely on its nose and the outer fork legs starts to taper just below the lower triple tree. So it would never be a neat solution.
-
I kind of wanted to keep the USD front end, but as the "new" stock frame I bought had the tall headstock, so I couldn't use the original front end. I tried to go thru all the possible solutions for getting it to work. But in the end, it was not worth it. So I bought the Mazocchi fork instead.
The difference between the old short headstock and the newer tall headstock is 50mm. 170mm for the old type and 220mm for the newer type. If I lowered the bottom triple tree by 50mm the bike would be standing completely on its nose and the outer fork legs starts to taper just below the lower triple tree. So it would never be a neat solution.
I understand, some times the juice isn't worth the squeeze!
-
I sure do like your returning some of the period look to it. Getting rid of the awful downward streaking exhaust, the USD forks and getting back to dual shocks are great aesthetic improvements even if the previous might have had some advantages.
What did you end up doing with that wonderful fairing from the 850 donor? Looks like a nice set-up.
Todd.
Thanks Todd, appreciate the feedback. The old exhaust did indeed look awful, but it sounded amazing! :grin:
The new dual shocks is a set of piggy back Wilbers shocks set up to my riding weight and will look and ride fantastic! (I hope) :laugh:
The fairing has been sold.
- Ulrik
-
Me thinks you still have a worthy project bike with the original bike frame you started with. Just not sure what, but you can sort that out when this project is finished. :grin:
I do have another T5 frame with Italian papers so I do plan to build a bike of that when I get the time for it :grin:
-
I'm looking forward to seeing more! What was involved with adding the new front end?
I have an '85 call II and I want to upgrade the front end. How hard was it to source the front end?
The new front was very easy to fit. It is made for Guzzi originally, so it was plug and play. Fit new headstock bearings and mount it.
I was lucky that there was one for sale when I needed it. So I don't know how difficult to source one elsewhere.
If you can find a fork that has the right diameter and height for the headstock bearings then it won't be so difficult. But you might need to make a custom "bearing shaft?" I can't remember the proper english term for it.
Remember to check if you have the 170mm or the 220mm headstock.
Ulrik
-
Danes also don't say Copenhagen , comes out like Koovenhagen .
Dusty
København :wink:
Looks good, I really like the clean electrical box and wiring.
Thanks! that's something coming from you! :laugh: Loved your V7 and 750S threads! Fantastic details!
Ulrik
-
Rick: I was a little hesitant at first, but seeing the quality of your work has convinced me you are on the right track. Beautiful work. Lynching postponed, maybe forever!
Ralph
-
Another approval
Not just because it looks neat (aesthetics are by definition subjective)
But because motorbikes are a blank canvas when they leave the factory, ready to be modified to suit the owner's needs and wants
I'd lynch the factory original is only right train spotters instead, but that'd still be wrong, they may turn out to be nice people (who should have bought a Honda)
My bike still developing, one owner 38 years, I just fitted my perfect tankbag, been through many, I made this one to last forever.
Tested in belting rain & wind today, works as planned, shop bought ones good enough for everyone else maybe, not this black duck,
Keep on fiddlin, you find out where you went wrong when you do it twice. Only a fool does it the same 3 times
-
FWIW, I don't think anyone can "ruin" a T5. But, I may be biased since I turned mine into a touring rat. I wish I was in Europe and I'd take that USD fork off your hands :)
-
Your bike looks great, I like the retro look as well. I think I would have kept the front end from the original custom though.
I did a similar build on an 850T a few years ago.
http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/jwalano/slideshow/950S
[/quote
Are they Ducati Conti exhausts, if so how does the Guzzi run with them?
-
Thanks for all the approvals appreciate it! :laugh:
I don't have so much more to show you as I didn't take that many pictures. I do have a bit more things.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1030.jpg)
The old front end had a wheel axle diameter of 25mm so I had to change the bearings in the wheel to have a internal diameter of 20mm as the new front end. This is the spacer I made to fit between the bearings. The two larger diameter sections is to concentric center the spacer in the wheel.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1035.jpg)
I delinked the brakes so I had to find a new position for the rear master brake cylinder. I have looked at a bunch of pictures of custom Guzzis to try to figure out the best position. This is the position I choose, hopefully it will work out just fine. One problem is that it is not possible to weld the brake lever at a right angle to the brake cylinder as the swingarm pivot nut is in the way.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1006.jpg)
On the original custom (can you even say that?) the rear wheel spacer was not really working really well so I had to make a new one. I made a nice new one only to find out that there had been an extra spacer washer in between on the old one. So my nice new spacer was 5mm too short.. Bugger, had to make another one with the correct height. Don't have any pictures of it unfortunately.
Ulrik
-
Hey Rick
Lovely job you've done there!
What are your plans for the USD forks from the original bike?
I'd be interested if they are for sale and would fit a LM1 frame.
Based in the UK.
Cheers
-
I'm a self taught tinkerer with minimal tools & confidence. I really appreciate someone with your ability. Thanks for including us!
-
Everything looking good. My only question is, "How can anyone have that much room in the shop?" :laugh:
-
Everything looking good. My only question is, "How can anyone have that much room in the shop?" :laugh:
Hell - think of the money he saves on bike work stands. :boozing:
Todd.
-
"How can anyone have that much room in the shop?" :laugh:
You have to be organized...
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o521/jwalano/IMG_20160112_155652639_zps2f0twu3c.jpg) (http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/jwalano/media/IMG_20160112_155652639_zps2f0twu3c.jpg.html)
This was yesterday, I cleaned up today. Too tired to take a picture though.
-
You have to be organized...
(http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o521/jwalano/IMG_20160112_155652639_zps2f0twu3c.jpg) (http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/jwalano/media/IMG_20160112_155652639_zps2f0twu3c.jpg.html)
This was yesterday, I cleaned up today. Too tired to take a picture though.
:bow: :bow: :bow:
-
how about mounting that rear master cylinder backwards? on a bracket ?? Keep up the good work :thumb:
Joe W. shop doesn't really look like that ,,,,,,,,,, :boozing:
-
Hey Rick
Lovely job you've done there!
What are your plans for the USD forks from the original bike?
I'd be interested if they are for sale and would fit a LM1 frame.
Based in the UK.
Cheers
Thanks!
I don't really have any plans for the USD fork, so they might be for sale if you make a good offer :wink:
The fork should fit the LM1 frame, any tonti frame up to around 1985 I believe.
Hell - think of the money he saves on bike work stands. :boozing:
Todd.
HEY! That's a genuine american walnut bike stand! :wink:
Reason for the size of the shop is because it is my dads furniture workshop. He makes dinner tables. http://www.dk3.dk/
I just borrowed a small area of it during the holidays.
Same reason the bike stand is pallets and an old door :grin: haven't found a place I could put a bike lift when it is not in use. A lift is high up my wish list though!
how about mounting that rear master cylinder backwards? on a bracket ?? Keep up the good work :thumb:
I was thinking about that, but the exhaust bracket/rear footrest bracket was in the way. I did have to make new exhaust brackets as the lafranconi exhausts wouldn't fit on the ones from the footrest kit. So it would be possible to do so. If it doesn't work in the position it has now I will move it to the rear.
-Ulrik
-
So, finally I am on my way back to Denmark and my Guzzi project.
I have made up a new wiring diagram with all my motogadget stuff included. A little more detailed than the one Moto gadget post themselves. Although I did steal most of their symbols.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/moto%20gadget%20wiring%20loom%20incl%20classic%20chrono%205%20button.png)
This is my wiring diagram. The Moto gadget m-unit.v2 takes care of all fusing and controls. That means that all lightning and switching is done within the m-unit. It controls headlight Hi/Lo, brake light, indicators, starting, horn and everything else that is needed. It is not affected by a change in indicator wattage, so you can mount any indicators you like and it will still blink at the same pace. Pretty clever. Also from the handle bar the 5 button set up uses 4 buttons to control indication left/right, horn and lights. To start and stop the bike you press two buttons simultaneously. From the handlebar buttons the wiring goes to a small unit called an m-button, this is not an actual button but a small device to changes the input from the buttons to a bus-signal (similar to can-bus). The m-button then sends the signal to the m-unit only using one wire so wiring is simplified from the headlight to the frame.
The five buttons on the handle bar is all switched to ground so they only require one wire each. So three wires from left and four wires from right handle bar. The three buttons on the left control; turn left indication, light and horn. Indicator button and horn will face the rider and lights button will be where your hi flash button usually is.
On right side of the handle bar there will only be two buttons and the brake light switch. The two buttons will be turn right and a button for switching between modes on the Chrono Classic tachometer.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/msc_chc_10k_de_pol_bezel_800.jpg)
The ChronoClassic tachometer is also from Motogadget and is a combined instrument that houses all the instrumentation for the bike.
It has a analoge tachometer and digital speedometer. It can also show mileage, oil temp and pressure, air temp, all indication lamps and alarm lamps. Plus a bunch of other fancy stuff.
My chronoclassic has a black bezel but I might polish it up. I haven't decided yet, I will see how it looks when it is mounted on the bike.
Other jobs remaining to finish the bike is to weld/braze a new bung for the fuel cap and fix the small hole in the gas tank and get it painted, finish the battery box, make washers for the tank rubbers and shockabsorbers and a bunch of other small jobs like making new throttle and choke cables.
I will make it to Denmark tomorrow so I will post some more updates during this week.
- Ulrik
-
Thanks for all the approvals appreciate it! :laugh:
I don't have so much more to show you as I didn't take that many pictures. I do have a bit more things.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1006.jpg)
On the original custom (can you even say that?) the rear wheel spacer was not really working really well so I had to make a new one. I made a nice new one only to find out that there had been an extra spacer washer in between on the old one. So my nice new spacer was 5mm too short.. Bugger, had to make another one with the correct height. Don't have any pictures of it unfortunately.
Ulrik
I really like your build so far. Excellent work! I ran into the same problem as you with the "tall neck" frame. It is difficult to get the look of the earlier bikes with the upper triple clamp so high.
A note on your rear axle spacer; make sure the inner face where it goes against the bearing is small enough to press only against the inner race, the same as that 5mm spacer you found does.
Also a question, how wide it that rear rim, and what size tire fit into your twin shock swingarm?
Mark
-
Missed this the first time around. Nice work and good write-up! I like it when someone throws away the book and builds from instinct.
What happened to those awful looking head pipes?
-
I really like your build so far. Excellent work! I ran into the same problem as you with the "tall neck" frame. It is difficult to get the look of the earlier bikes with the upper triple clamp so high.
A note on your rear axle spacer; make sure the inner face where it goes against the bearing is small enough to press only against the inner race, the same as that 5mm spacer you found does.
Also a question, how wide it that rear rim, and what size tire fit into your twin shock swingarm?
Mark
Yeah, It is quite difficult to get the nice flowing lines that you can with the earlier bikes, but I just have to live with it. A nice trade is that i can get a less aggressive riding position while still retaining the clip-ons.
On the rear axle spacer, I did machine it so it only touches on the inner bearing it is also stepped so the wheel axle clamps the spacer to the inner bearing.
The rim is 4.25"x17" and is currently wrapped in a 160/60R17 Michelin, this is a very very snug fit, so I have bought a 150/60R17 bridgestone S21 to replace it. I had to replace the front tire anyway so I opted to get two of the same make and model. So now I have S21 front and rear. Oh, and you will have to nudge the swing arm to make the wider tire fit. I don't know how much is necessary with the 150.
Missed this the first time around. Nice work and good write-up! I like it when someone throws away the book and builds from instinct.
What happened to those awful looking head pipes?
Thanks rodekyll,
I'm just trying to build my dream guzzi, we will have to see how it will ride when I finish it :grin:
The awful head pipes ended up in my pile of random spare parts. I might be able to use the tube for something else so I keep them around. Pretty sure they have seen their last as guzzi head pipes though :grin:
:edited to correct tire model
-
Somehow, I seem to have missed this one, too. Attaboy, Rick!
-
The rim is 4.25"x17" and is currently rapped in a 160/60R17 Michelin, this is a very very snug fit, so I have bought a 150/60R17 brigdestone S20 to replace it. I had to replace the front tire anyway so I opted to get two of the same maker and model. So now I have S20 front and rear. Oh, and you will have to nudge the swing arm to make the wider tire fit. I don't know how much is necessary with the 150.
I am surprised they fit. The 130/90-16 tires on my T5 rub the swingarm. How do you 'nudge' it?
-
If that bike is 'ruined', I can't wait to see 'beautified'! Nice!!
-
The 'nudging' (I'm not sure this is even a term.) is done by cutting a bit out of the swingarm where there is already a depression on the T5 swingarm . You then weld a new piece in again that sits as close to the driveshaft as you can get it without it touching. It is a bit difficult to see on the picture as it is black on black. But you get an idea of how close it is.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1008.jpg)
On this one it was already done when I got it and they have actually turned the drive shaft down to a smaller diameter. I am not so fond of this solution as it takes a lot of the strength out of the driveshaft. I have a second swingarm that I might modify so I will be able to run a standard size drive shaft.
A wider spacer is also used between the wheel and the rear drive. This moves the tire more to the left seen from the rear of the bike. It also moves the wheels drive outside 'spline' out so you have to either measure to make sure that it is still in full contact with the rear drives inside 'spline' or it would be possible to use machinist dye to check the contact. I haven't had a chance to check mine with machinist dye, but it measured out ok. I still would like to be able to get it closer to the original position, this is also one of the reasons to move to a 150 tire.
The tire center is also a little bit of the center line of the frame, so I will try to see if I can correct this so it will be on the frame center line. How much this offset actually affects handling I am not sure. According to a recent thread on this board BMW had moved their front tire 5mm out of centerline to be able to fit a ABS ring. If this was the actual reason and BMW saw this as a viable option, then I am tempted to go ahead with the small wheel offset and see how the bike actually handles on the road.
-
The 'nudging' (I'm not sure this is even a term.)
Back home it'd have been "noodgin' "
And the carnage continues...
Love the work!
Todd.
-
When I encounter a tire that's too wide for the swing arm even though the profile says it will fit, I will offset my rear wheel by 5mm using a shim I carry for that purpose. No drama as a result. It's been pointed out to me that racers do this routinely to get clearance on their overwide rear tires, and that some frames have the offset built in. If it works at the speeds they go, it should handle my plodding pace.
-
When I encounter a tire that's too wide for the swing arm even though the profile says it will fit, I will offset my rear wheel by 5mm using a shim I carry for that purpose. No drama as a result. It's been pointed out to me that racers do this routinely to get clearance on their overwide rear tires, and that some frames have the offset built in. If it works at the speeds they go, it should handle my plodding pace.
My '85 Lemans has a stock 3" rear wheel, and a 130/80-18 tire clears the stock swingarm. I figured enough adjustment and modification could be found to go up a size on the tire width.
This is handy to know. I was wondering if some of the offset can be made up by adjusting the swingarm pivots to move the swingarm to the right. I imagine there might be driveshaft/internal swingarm clearance problems pretty quick. Probably not much is available but every few mm adds up.
Mark
-
Hi Rick,
Like your work, I'd be a little cautious about the "offset"
thing - as I remember it no real conclusion was reached
on the reason for being or the affect on handling.
I definately wouldn't try it just because BMW have used it
as a "Bodge" type solution - there's a goodly amount of
Dodgy engineering on my 1150 - not something to aspire
too.
I have a mate who works on and races Classics and while
there is plenty of "strange" engineering to make things fit
the wheels are always "Inline" with each other. We had a
chat about this and it just doesn't make sense.
Think about this - we know it's important to have the wheels
inline with each other, that's why we have chain adjustment
marks and don't even trust them and stringline the wheels to
make sure of it. We know that if the wheels aren't inline and
parallel the bike crabs down the road affecting handling and
feel for cornering. Having the wheels "offset" creates exactly
that situation via a different route.
You may "get away" with a slight inaccuracy but it would still
affect it and be less than ideal - it's just a matter of degree or
how much it's affected.
The M-Unit looks very interesting - thanks for the run down
on that.
Maurie.
-
Hi Rick,
Like your work, I'd be a little cautious about the "offset"
thing - as I remember it no real conclusion was reached
on the reason for being or the affect on handling.
I definately wouldn't try it just because BMW have used it
as a "Bodge" type solution - there's a goodly amount of
Dodgy engineering on my 1150 - not something to aspire
too.
I have a mate who works on and races Classics and while
there is plenty of "strange" engineering to make things fit
the wheels are always "Inline" with each other. We had a
chat about this and it just doesn't make sense.
Think about this - we know it's important to have the wheels
inline with each other, that's why we have chain adjustment
marks and don't even trust them and stringline the wheels to
make sure of it. We know that if the wheels aren't inline and
parallel the bike crabs down the road affecting handling and
feel for cornering. Having the wheels "offset" creates exactly
that situation via a different route.
You may "get away" with a slight inaccuracy but it would still
affect it and be less than ideal - it's just a matter of degree or
how much it's affected.
The M-Unit looks very interesting - thanks for the run down
on that.
Maurie.
I think there was no conclusion reached because the issue is insignificant.
The situation you describe with chain adjusters and stringlining is not the same as the 5mm offset. You're talking about wheels that don't point in the same direction of travel as the frame. We're talking about wheels that do point along the direction of the frame, but one may be slightly left of the other. The argument is that 5mm (1/4-inch) offset over a 5.5" tire isn't significant and is routinely used to compensate for a wide variety of real and imaginary problems.
My '85 Lemans has a stock 3" rear wheel, and a 130/80-18 tire clears the stock swingarm. I figured enough adjustment and modification could be found to go up a size on the tire width.
This is handy to know. I was wondering if some of the offset can be made up by adjusting the swingarm pivots to move the swingarm to the right. I imagine there might be driveshaft/internal swingarm clearance problems pretty quick. Probably not much is available but every few mm adds up.
Mark
No, you can't move the swing arm left or right to compensate. The critical alignment is the forward u-joint axis relative to the transmission output shaft. The drive line needs to be on the same axis as the transmission output shaft or you bind the splines/sideload the bearings/invoke the demons of the apocalypse. Too much and you bind the u-joints. That's why we get fussy and follow a procedure for swing arm alignment when we install it.
-
The situation you describe with chain adjusters and stringlining is not the same as the 5mm offset. You're talking about wheels that don't point in the same direction of travel as the frame. We're talking about wheels that do point along the direction of the frame, but one may be slightly left of the other. The argument is that 5mm (1/4-inch) offset over a 5.5" tire isn't significant and is routinely used to compensate for a wide variety of real and imaginary problems.
I do understand the situation is different RK but the result
is the same.
On a chain drive bike if the rear tire isn't inline with the
front then, when in motion, the back will step out to one side
until both tires are running parallel to each other but not in
the same track. There is a difference in that the frame will
be at a slight angle and the steering slightly off centre as
well on the misaligned chain bike while on the "offset" bike
the frame and steering wouldn't be affected - but the result l
is the same > the tires end up running parallel but not in the
same track and that affects handling and feel, it would drop
over on one side easily but you'd really have to drag it over
on the other side if the diff is too much.
A small amount might not make a significant difference, but
it will make A difference. Wether that matters to a particular
person or not is for them to decide - but the affect is there.
Maurie.
-
My 2c
On my racebike with 3 sets of wheels I had different offsets on each back one, std for inters slightly wider rim for wets and wider yet for slicks, I could not feel difference turning L or R
Move on 25 years, recently fitted 4,25 rim and 150/70 tyre to the ol dunger
The difference from radial PR3 to bias Avon RR astounding in "feel" but can't feel offset difference side to side, camber / traffic affect me more
Mileage alone justifies the rim, I got 13000Km (>8000 miles) from that tyre
PR4 going on today, hope to get the 20% more Michy claim
Oh and first time I've worn out sides of a tyre before centre on a road bike, ever, modern dual compound tyres well worth the offset to me
Easy offset is to make new spacer inside drive box or simply pit top hat spacer over original
-
Like I said at the outset -- there was no conclusion because the effect of a 5mm offset is insignificant. Something on the level of "can a thousand angles dance on the head of a pin or only 900?" It doesn't matter because other than as a debate exercise, it doesn't matter. So given the choice of using my 5mm shim and riding off with a new tire or pissing myself over the 5mm offset and waiting in town till a substitute tire arrives, I'll be keeping my depends dry.
-
Well - I don't know RK's background, but know he's bin around
the block a few times, I know you know your shit Martin, and
I know I'm not an expert so I'll stand corrected.
I'm probably just being anal and over-imagining how much of
an affect there is.
:thumb:
Maurie.
-
When I encounter a tire that's too wide for the swing arm even though the profile says it will fit, I will offset my rear wheel by 5mm using a shim I carry for that purpose. No drama as a result. It's been pointed out to me that racers do this routinely to get clearance on their overwide rear tires, and that some frames have the offset built in. If it works at the speeds they go, it should handle my plodding pace.
As Rodekyll writes, if it works for the racers I'm pretty sure it will work for me too, I will see what I can do to lessen the offset, but I'm not sure I can get completely in line. I will see if there is any noticeable effect when I ride it. I'm pretty sure the main effect of the whole thing is a huge grin from ear to ear :grin: :bike-037:
-
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG0363.jpg)
IMHO this is how the BB square fin is best displayed. No lower rails and an under the sump collector, rocker covers blasted bare to match the engine & trans. Massive.
:thumb:
Tobit
-
So have had a bit of time to work on the Guzzi, good news are that it is mostly complete now with only a few small jobs missing.
Again I haven't been that good at taking pictures, but most of the work have been to sort out the wiring.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMG-1462951256969-V.jpg)
I changed out the old worn VHF 30 dellortos with new PHF 36 dellortos with velocity stacks. For now I haven't put a filter on them but am planning on filter socks if I have to go far. If anybody have jetting suggestions for a small valve 850 I would love to hear them.
The jetting now is:
130 Main jet,
50 Idle jet,
k18 needle. middle height of the needle.
Haven't checked float height or atomizer/needle jet.
For the throttle twist grip I have a domino dual pull grip so I have a single cable to each carb and no spiltter. I made new cables to fit.
I haven't decided where to put the choke lever yet, so haven't made any cables for those. I think I'll get the flip choke type that sits on the carb itself so I don't have to make any more cables.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1486.jpg)
I welded two small brackets to the underside of the tank to raise it up a little bit so it blends in better with the seat. I also moved the seat a little bit backwards so it fits better.
To be able to fit the new filler cap on the tank I had to machine up a new bung to weld to the tank.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1514.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1515.jpg)
Finished bung
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1546.jpg)
welded in the tank. Could only weld five millimeter at the time or the moisture trapped between the layers would cause the weld to blow up and make a hole in the weld. I most have resharpened my electrode 30 times or so! But it got done and I'm sure the weld is gas tight :grin:
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1536.jpg)
Following Jims 750s adventures inspired me to invest in a powder coating gun :grin: have to say that it is pretty damn amazing to be able to finish a bracket or a part and mount it to the bike fully coated 20mins later. A huge time saver and the finish is very good!
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1537.jpg)
First item to get coated! my new ignition lock bracket.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1540.jpg)
Part finished and ready to be mounted to the bike! :grin: 20 mins later! I still can't get over it! way too cool! :grin: And it is really really easy! Did I tell you it was fast? :grin:
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMG-20160519-WA0002.jpeg)
finished at fitted on the bike.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1541.jpg)
Made up a bracket to fit the instrument. It wasn't the plan to fit it like this, the bracket was made to be mounted upside down so the instrument was flush with the top triple tree.
I had bought and extra top triple tree to be able to clean it up and remove all unwanted mounting lugs.Unfortunately the extra triple tree warped so much when I welded up the holes left by the clean up that it was impossible to mount it. So bummer, didn't get the cleaned up look I was going for. Fortunately The bracket I had made would fit the original top triple tree/yoke if I flipped it upside down. So that's what I ended up doing. Doesn't look too bad I think.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMG-20160519-WA0007.jpeg)
Got the buttons mounted and the wires pulled for them. Moto gadget states that the buttons should be able to run ground thru the handlebars and therefore eliminate the need for ground wires. This turned out not to work in the end, so I had to run some ground wires down to the headlight. They only run signals so they don't require a large gauge wire.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1548.jpg)
Wiring is mostly finished. Only need to pull one more cable for the oil pressure switch.
I mounted a regulator/rectifier from Elektronik Sachse. It combines the regulator and retifier in one package, have the same mounting dimensions as the old bosch unit and you can adjust the charging voltage on it. Adjusting the voltage is needed to charge the lithium battery I have mounted. The charging voltage must be between 14 and 15 volts to be able to recharge it fully.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMG-1464043549022-V.jpg)
New bracket for the front mudguard.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1561.jpg)
Final assembly with the new shocks and shock washers. Lafranconi exhausts fitted.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1563.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1564.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1565.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1567.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1568.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1569.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1577.jpg)
Next job is to get the tank painted and coated inside with tank sealer to protect against rust. And then it only needs an oil change on the full driveline and then I should be good to go! :grin:
I did try and start it up, and it did start! Boy it makes a nice sound! :grin: No video sorry.
There is a few more jobs that needs to be done to finish it completely:
Bracket for speedometer sensor
Change front brakelines, fill and bleed brake systems.
Make washers for the tank rubbers.
Jetting of the carbs to make it run right.
Mounting of Dyna III.
-Ulrik
-
Really, really nice work!
I especially like the lines of the seat / tank and how the exhaust lines follow the plot. The red tips of the exhaust are just enough bling.
Your workmanship is top notch.
Cheers
Jim
-
Thanks Jim :grin:
I was considering to fit another seat, but I have decided to keep this one as I agree with you that the seat compliment the tank nicely.
I have yet to fit the breather hose for the gear box. How is this normally routed?
-Ulrik
-
I don't know if it drowned in the last long post, but if anyone have suggestions to jetting on a small valve 850 with 36mm phf carbs I would very much like to hear them :grin:
Also suggestions for routing of breather hoses for the gearbox would be appreciated. If I understood it correctly they need to go up a fair bit before going down again. Is this correct?
Thanks.
-Ulrik
-
Hi Guys, and girls if we have any :grin:
I have been in the progress of ruining a perfectly almost running T5 and build it into my dream bike, it won't be anything remotely like a T5 as the only parts that are carried over is the engine, gearbox, frame and rear swing arm. All other parts comes from other Guzzis or made for the bike.
I originally bought a caf�d T5 as it looked absolutely amazing. I knew when I bought it that it would be nearly impossible getting registered and road legal as it stood.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG0363.jpg)
This is the bike as I bought it. Chopped frame, removed lower frame rails, converted to mono shock, USD fork, 17" wheels, too modified to have a chance to get it MOT'ed in Denmark.
The plan was to find a new unmolested frame and transfer all the good parts to that and get some good twin shocks to compliment the fork. After searching for a frame a while I found one from a 1978 T3 with German papers. The guy selling it wanted 700$ for the bare frame. Bearing in mind that with the German frame I still had to get the finished bike thru the Danish MOT system and get a value estimate which they use for determining how much you have to pay in "Registreingsafgift" (Registration tax) to legally use it on Danish roads I decided that the 700$ was way more than what I wanted to pay. (The estimates vary wildly and would be expected to be around 1000$ or more.)
So no luck finding a frame at first :undecided:
Sometime later I found a cheap 850T5 that looked pretty unloved but was registered in Denmark. So I made an even cheaper offer and the seller agreed to the deal.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG0048.jpg)
This is the bike I picked up in dire need for some TLC.
While the bike looks okay on the pictures it was running very rough and needed to have new tires and a bunch of other work to get it thru the MOT. First plan was to change the front tire and get the bike running well enough to get the MOT. But after several tries to get it running smoothly I ran out of time and out of patience. The wiring loom was completely botched by the previous owner and would need some serious work to get sorted out. (Every time I fixed something on it something else broke or stopped working�)
I ditched the idea of getting the bike road worthy in the state it was in and put it away as I had run out of time.
I work in the cement business and am working aboard so I can only work on the bike in my spare time. Off to work I was� :sad:
Fast forward to next vacation:
Started taking both bikes apart.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1010.jpg)
Stripped both bikes to bare frames and removed some of the unneeded brackets from the green bikes frame, added some new brackets for mounting points for seat and electric box.
Frame just after being picked up from the sandblaster:
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1034.jpg)
End of vacation�
A small mistake I made was that I didn't know that Guzzi changed the Tonti frame to the tall headstock in between 1984 and 1985.
So I have one of each... Which means that the USD fork could not be used as it was not possible to modify it to fit on the frame with the tall headstock.
I found the solution in a guy who sold a brand new 45mm Marzocchi fork for the tall head stock. I don't actually know which exact model it comes from. I'm guessing a Cali aluminium or a Cali Sport.
Of course the spacers and wheel axle didn't fit from the old USD fork, so I had to turn new spacers and modify an old Guzzi rear axle to get everything to fit together.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1031.jpg)
Front wheel finally on the fork.
On to the build finally:
I haven't been very good at taking pictures of the progress with putting the bike together again but here are rest of the pictures up to the point where I am now.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1196.jpg)
Showing the three new brackets to mount seat and electronic box.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1197.jpg)
New timing cover gets sodablasted to match the rest of the engine.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1211.jpg)
First trial fit of tank and seat.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1230.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1234.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1235.jpg)
Motogadget M-unit v.2 and finished electrics box.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1240.jpg)
Vroom Vroom :bike-037:
End of Christmas holidays. back to work.
This is as far as I got this time. I still have a lot of work on the wiring and I need to get a new regulator/rectifier plus paint and all the finishing touches. Front and rear fenders and so on. I haven't really decided if I want to use the seat or not yet.
I have a ton of questions I will need some of you good folks to give your opinion on and are looking forward to get the bike on the road.
English is not my mother tongue so forgive me if there is some grammatical errors or misspellings, I try my best :laugh:
I welcome all the suggestions, opinions and ideas you might have that would improve my project. Even if you don't like it :grin:
Let the lynching begin! :grin: :whip2:
I've seen worse mate, a bloody lot worse..... It's got a nice stance to it, looks solid and "stout", sorta tough, well done. Huzo.
-
Also, what soda blasting apparatus did you use and were you happy with the results ?
-
The 'nudging' (I'm not sure this is even a term.) is done by cutting a bit out of the swingarm where there is already a depression on the T5 swingarm . You then weld a new piece in again that sits as close to the driveshaft as you can get it without it touching. It is a bit difficult to see on the picture as it is black on black. But you get an idea of how close it is.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/IMAG1008.jpg)
On this one it was already done when I got it and they have actually turned the drive shaft down to a smaller diameter. I am not so fond of this solution as it takes a lot of the strength out of the driveshaft. I have a second swingarm that I might modify so I will be able to run a standard size drive shaft.
A wider spacer is also used between the wheel and the rear drive. This moves the tire more to the left seen from the rear of the bike. It also moves the wheels drive outside 'spline' out so you have to either measure to make sure that it is still in full contact with the rear drives inside 'spline' or it would be possible to use machinist dye to check the contact. I haven't had a chance to check mine with machinist dye, but it measured out ok. I still would like to be able to get it closer to the original position, this is also one of the reasons to move to a 150 tire.
The tire center is also a little bit of the center line of the frame, so I will try to see if I can correct this so it will be on the frame center line. How much this offset actually affects handling I am not sure. According to a recent thread on this board BMW had moved their front tire 5mm out of centerline to be able to fit a ABS ring. If this was the actual reason and BMW saw this as a viable option, then I am tempted to go ahead with the small wheel offset and see how the bike actually handles on the road.
Yeah BMW do specify an offset as has been discussed interminably here, but no one (including me) has really found out why without a lot of possibles and probables, so just go for it 'cos your instincts have been ok so far. Huzo.
-
FWIW, I don't think anyone can "ruin" a T5. But, I may be biased since I turned mine into a touring rat. I wish I was in Europe and I'd take that USD fork off your hands :)
Why do you have to be in Europe to do that Charlie? We have this long time service which works great! It's called "shipping".
-
I sure do like your returning some of the period look to it. Getting rid of the awful downward streaking exhaust, the USD forks and getting back to dual shocks are great aesthetic improvements even if the previous might have had some advantages.
Todd.
It's odd isn't it Todd. In the normal course of events I'd agree totally with what you have said above. But in this particular instance I rather like the aesthetic of the 'penstock pipes'
They seem to impart a slightly aggressive suggestion of steam-punk to the bike.
-
Also, what soda blasting apparatus did you use and were you happy with the results ?
I use this gun:
http://www.jwlaircontrol.com/sodablaster.asp?id=107785
It removes paint and dirt quite efficiently but doesn't remove rust or coarse corrosion very well.
I have used it to clean up carburettors and this it does really well, the carbs looks much much better after. It is just very important to clean the parts thoroughly with water after blasting to remove any soda residue.
I am happy with it, but it can't really take over from a glass blasting cabinet.
-
I decided to rename the thread as the previous one didn't really explain anything about what the thread is really about :grin:
It's odd isn't it Todd. In the normal course of events I'd agree totally with what you have said above. But in this particular instance I rather like the aesthetic of the 'penstock pipes'
They seem to impart a slightly aggressive suggestion of steam-punk to the bike.
I believe the 'penstock pipes' could have been made to work, but the build quality and execution of flanges and so on was not very impressive. The flanges was leaking so much one the previous tried to fix it with glass cord, which didn't work :grin:
It did add to the rough look the original bike had, but wasn't the look I was after, so it got binned.
-Ulrik
-
I found some more pictures from the build. Thought I might as well share them even if it is from long time ago.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/IMG_1412.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/IMG_1410.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/IMG_1409.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/IMG_1408.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/IMG_1414.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-06/IMG_1421.jpg)
The bike have come a long way from here, but there's still some jobs left before it is on the road again.
I will be returning to DK in late august, so paint should be ready there, then I just need to fix: brake hoses, a loose cable on the front brake light switch, speedometer sensor bracket and magnet, internal coating of the tank and fitting of the oil sensor when I do the oil changes. Then I should be ready to run! :grin:
I will try to make a video so you have something to watch and listen to :grin:
And final a picture of how it looked when I left for work again:
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/IMAG1576.jpg)
Further cosmetic things that I would like to change at some point:
mounting of the instrument, I would like to make a top yoke that have the instrument integrated in the yoke so it would sit lower down and make the bike lower visually.
New brake and clutch reservoirs.
Tuck in the headlight so it sits further in.
Alloy rear fender maybe.
Toolbox to fill out the empty space underneath the seat. Will see how it turns out. Have been playing with the idea of casting some side covers that looks similar to the V7 sport.
There are tons of other small things I would like to do, but first I would like to get it running. That's the main priority.
-Ulrik
-
Things I learned during this project:
Wiring:
It is a hundred times faster to make the wiring if you sit down and spend some time making a proper wiring diagram. It will be well worth your time!
Shrinkwrap is not the best solution to make a neath wiring loom, it turns very stiff after being shrinked and it is impossible to add any wires if you have forgotten one or more.
I chose the shrinkwrap because I can't stand electricians tape, one of the most sticky things you can find the universe! I think a better solution would be to use braided wiring "tubes" that can be expanded to fit extra wires, is still flexible after installing wires and is still a good looking solution. It might be possible to find a better tape than the one you can find in the local hardware stores. After many cars are made with a taped up wiring loom.
Have plenty of differently colored wires on hand when you do the loom. Especially in different wire gauges.
I don't have much more to offer at this point, will have to be when I get back and carry on with the bike. I will try to take some more pictures.
-Ulrik
-
I used to use heat shrink tubing to bundle wiring, but the first time I installed one of Greg Bender's excellent wiring harnesses, it became apparent that I needed to "up my game". Next to Greg's nicely sheathed wiring, the heat shrink just didn't look good. So, I started buying the same type vinyl sheathing that Greg (and the Guzzi factory) uses.
http://www.cycleterminal.com/sleeve-tubing.html
-
I used to use heat shrink tubing to bundle wiring, but the first time I installed one of Greg Bender's excellent wiring harnesses, it became apparent that I needed to "up my game". Next to Greg's nicely sheathed wiring, the heat shrink just didn't look good. So, I started buying the same type vinyl sheathing that Greg (and the Guzzi factory) uses.
http://www.cycleterminal.com/sleeve-tubing.html
Hi Charlie,
I think that's the kind of stuff I would get if I do my second bike, If I can get the frame registered that is.
It would be nice to find a european dealer for the vinyl sheathing. Worth a trip to google :grin:
-Ulrik
-
I use the non-adhesive heat shrink tubing to run my bundles through and then I don't shrink it. It's not quite the same as the factory vinyl, but it does allow you to add/subtract/adjust/repair wires when you're building a loom and don't know exactly where they all land. It can be easier and less expensive than the really good stuff, and still light years ahead of wrapping tape. Also, because it's not shrunk it's flat with a nice crease. That means you can lay it into tight spaces, massage the inner wires for relief, and fasten it to surfaces form fittingly flat instead of round. That can be handy if you're trying to hide the wiring along the inside of the frame tubes.
$0.02
-
I use the non-adhesive heat shrink tubing to run my bundles through and then I don't shrink it. It's not quite the same as the factory vinyl, but it does allow you to add/subtract/adjust/repair wires when you're building a loom and don't know exactly where they all land. It can be easier and less expensive than the really good stuff, and still light years ahead of wrapping tape. Also, because it's not shrunk it's flat with a nice crease. That means you can lay it into tight spaces, massage the inner wires for relief, and fasten it to surfaces form fittingly flat instead of round. That can be handy if you're trying to hide the wiring along the inside of the frame tubes.
$0.02
Excellent thinking IMHO.
-
My 2 favorites for wiring sheathing
(http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/image_uploads/110701_med.jpg)
(http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/image_uploads/110101_med.jpg)
Both of these are expandable and can easily accommodate wire running into or out of the loom. Spiral wrap is stiffer and not so elegant but a lot easier to work with & easier to put on and remove
100% agree make a diagram, followed by a schedule for you wiring, run the wiring and terminate last
Just what I do
John
-
I use the non-adhesive heat shrink tubing to run my bundles through and then I don't shrink it. It's not quite the same as the factory vinyl, but it does allow you to add/subtract/adjust/repair wires when you're building a loom and don't know exactly where they all land. It can be easier and less expensive than the really good stuff, and still light years ahead of wrapping tape. Also, because it's not shrunk it's flat with a nice crease. That means you can lay it into tight spaces, massage the inner wires for relief, and fasten it to surfaces form fittingly flat instead of round. That can be handy if you're trying to hide the wiring along the inside of the frame tubes.
$0.02
Good thinking RK, I did wonder if it made it better with the non-adhesive heat shrink tubing even if you did shrink it. I'm thinking that it is the adhesive that makes it so stiff as it locks the wires together more or less. But not shrinking it will obviously make it more flexible still. Might consider that next time.
My 2 favorites for wiring sheathing
(http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/image_uploads/110701_med.jpg)
(http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/image_uploads/110101_med.jpg)
Both of these are expandable and can easily accommodate wire running into or out of the loom. Spiral wrap is stiffer and not so elegant but a lot easier to work with & easier to put on and remove
100% agree make a diagram, followed by a schedule for you wiring, run the wiring and terminate last
Just what I do
John
I like the top braided one quite much, I will definitely try that next time, but I can very much see the advantage of the spiral one too. Maybe the answer is just to buy all three kinds and then test with one is best on the different areas of the bike.
I think the braided one would be the one that would be easiest to wrap around corners and to hide behind frame tubes.
-Ulrik
-
I'm back in Denmark on a three week holiday now, so I have had some time to work on the Guzzi.
I have made a bracket for the speedo sensor. Installed the front brake lines, filled brake fluid front and rear and bleed the lines.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1787.jpg)
Front brakelines mounted.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1789.jpg)
Bracket for speedo sensor. It is a reed sensor that needs a magnet glued to the brake disk to work. I haven't mounted the magnet yet.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1785.jpg)
While the trumpets are very pretty, they offer very little protection against sucking in small children, birds, rocks and such, so I have fitted some trumpet filter socks.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1795.jpg)
Before starting up the engine I wanted to do an oil and filter change. I'm quite happy here that I don't have an external filter spacer as I found the sump full of a kind of slurry.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1797.jpg)
I cleaned out all the slurry by first scraping as much off as possible and then cleaning it up with petroleum and a toothbrush. The filter and the oil pump pickup mesh was removed and everything was cleaned underneath.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMG-20160903-WA0001.jpeg)
I have been trying to tune up the new carburettors to suit the engine, but have had issues with the right cylinder not firing properly on idle. When I give it a bit of throttle it picks up but doesn't run cleanly still.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1801.jpg)
I suspected the points and ignition wires to be related to the rough idle running on the right cylinder so I took the chance to install the Dyna III ignition I had bought last year.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1802.jpg)
To get the timing right I had to make up a degree wheel as the single plate flywheel fitted to the bike doesn't have the proper timing marks. I made the degree wheel by printing out a degree wheel found on google, used double stick tape to attach the paper to a piece of aluminium sheet. The aluminium sheet was rough cut on my small bandsaw and then finished up in the lathe. A little piece of TIG welding rod was used as a pointer.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1798.jpg)
Currently the tank is at the painter, so I'm using my small testing fuel tank here.
Tomorrow I will try to see if I can sort out why I'm having the rough idling on the right cylinder. I will try switching the coils around to see if this moves the problem to the left cylinder. If this doesn't work I will try cleaning out the carb and will check the float height. If some of you have some ideas on what could be wrong, any suggestions would be much welcome :grin:
edit for spelling mistakes.
-Ulrik
-
I can't wait to see the tank when it's painted. Are you going to give us a hint at what it's going to look like?
Great job on everything so far! :thumb:
-
Thanks,
The tank should be fininshed this week, or I hope so at least! We have a meeting for Italian vehicles on saturday, so I hope to finish the bike before that so I can join the meeting. If not I just have to get by driving the Alfa instead. I'm hoping to bring both tho.
-Ulrik
Hint- white
-
Well - I don't know RK's background, but know he's bin around
the block a few times, I know you know your shit Martin, and
I know I'm not an expert so I'll stand corrected.
I'm probably just being anal and over-imagining how much of
an affect there is.
:thumb:
Maurie.
Don't back away from your stance too readily, all my initial point was, ever was, and still is.... Why did they purposely build ANY offset at all into the BMW, they could have built it so the wheels were properly in line, but made a decision not too, remember we're talking about BMW here, not some pre world war crap heap. Your observations are sound enough to be worth consideration, the topic didn't dry up because the amount off offset was " insignificant" cos even if it was 50 mm and not 5 mm, still no one ( including me), was able to come up with anything that wasn't lame, that's why no conclusions were reached.
-
The tank has arrived!
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1828.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1829.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1832.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1833.jpg)
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMAG1835.jpg)
Next thing to do is to get some license plates for it and then get it jetted properly.
Also the engine is powerful enough to slip the clutch, so I am thinking of getting a ergal flywheel like Jacksonracing mentioned that he has on his. That would allow me to use the standard dual plate clutch.
-Ulrik
-
Don't back away from your stance too readily, all my initial point was, ever was, and still is.... Why did they purposely build ANY offset at all into the BMW, they could have built it so the wheels were properly in line, but made a decision not too, remember we're talking about BMW here, not some pre world war crap heap. Your observations are sound enough to be worth consideration, the topic didn't dry up because the amount off offset was " insignificant" cos even if it was 50 mm and not 5 mm, still no one ( including me), was able to come up with anything that wasn't lame, that's why no conclusions were reached.
Wasn't quite a stance Huzo, more of a reasoned supposition.
Unfortunately actual experience from experimentation trumps
Supposition anytime. There are a lot of things at play and
influencing each other and I don't know all of 'em! :grin:
Maurie.
-
Hi Charlie,
I think that's the kind of stuff I would get if I do my second bike, If I can get the frame registered that is.
It would be nice to find a european dealer for the vinyl sheathing. Worth a trip to google :grin:
-Ulrikl
There is: http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/
I've used this vendor for several decades. Good solid supplier with stuff you can not easily find elsewhere.
Ciao,
Dick
-
Just another point to compliment above, another good UK supplier is Auto Electrical Supplies.
I've used them a lot, although to be fair I am in the UK
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/ (http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/)
-
thanks for the suggestions, looks just like the shop I need for such things.
An update on the bike too, I finally got a license plate for it and was able to put around 220km on it before I had to go back to work.
I have a few issues that needs to be sorted but not too bad. Clutch master cylinder or slave cylinder is losing pressure when you hold in the clutch so that the bike will start pulling away if you hold in the clutch long enough. I suspect the slave to be the problem as this is a custom made or something like that. Have never seen one identical to it and haven't seen anywhere online where they sell them. I will take it apart and change the o-rings and generally inspect it. The master cylinder is a brembo unit so I think the changes are higher that the slave cylinder is leaking very slightly. That doesn't mean that the brembo can't be the reason for the pressure drop. But I will look at the slave cylinder first.
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/IMG-20160915-WA0016.jpeg)
The bike as it looks now, I still want to pull in the headlight a bit to close up the big hole between the revcounter and the headlight. I also plan to make a new top triple tree that the revcounter fits into so it will also be mounted lower. But now the bike is on the street and I can enjoy riding it and then make new parts for it as I go along. I might change out the seat too.
-Ulrik
-
Another thing is that the rear link pipe between the exhaust shifted to one side causing it to leak. So have to get that fixed also. Tried to just turn it and pull it back into the correct position but that thing was stuck!
Also I would like to get some new brake fluid reservoirs. I also got a new rear brake master cylinder as the one on it now is a 15mm and you have to use excessive force to get it to brake and the pedal travel is around 10-15mm right now. So that also has to be changed.
-Ulrik
-
Moto Corse & Rizoma have some really trick reservoirs but they are pretty spendy
Lots of other cheaper options, I really like this design by Rizoma
(http://www.pjsparts.com/catalog/images/CT125B.jpg)
Regarding exhausts I hate taking them off and installing, always welded together on disassembly and never seem to align properly on reassembly
I agree on your clutch diagnosis, with the cylinders, with my LM 1000 I eventually went back to cable in frustration, but that was due to a master/slave ratio mismatch that gave me a wooden clutch
Good thread really enjoying it, great work and lovely machine
John
-
Hi Old Jock,
Thanks for the hint on the rizoma and the Moto Corse reservoirs. I do like the one you like too.
I just don't really know if I want the kind that you have posted a picture of or one of the small round ones with side outlet as this one:
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/Sandbergcal/RIZOMA%20MEDIUM%20FLUID%20POT%20SIDE%20OUTLET%20BLACK%20CT025B1.jpg)
On the exhaust: As I tried to get the link pipe to move with the help of a big pipe wrench after other options failed me and the pipe wrench only succeeded in making dents in the pipe but did nothing to turn it, I plan on making a stainless pipe with some lockrings that holds it in the right place. But before doing that, I will try one more attempt to get the original lafranconi pipe to work. If I can't make it work, I will make a new pipe, and then get the old link pipe out what ever it takes.
I do consider going back to the cable clutch if I can't get the hydraulic one to work. But I will take a long fight with it before I give up :grin:
Thanks for your compliments. I have enjoyed your Magni thread a lot also, very lovely machines indeed!
-Ulrik
-
The bike as it looks now, I still want to pull in the headlight a bit to close up the big hole between the revcounter and the headlight.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JN2W4P0/ref=pd_day0_263_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7T4J0AXEJES5TFCA6AZX
Not sure if it will pull it in or not. But worth looking at.
-
Hi Dave,
I don't know if they will pull the headlight in, but the problem is that I have 45mm fork tubes so there is not so many brackets available for it. I can modify the existing ones with no big troubles or make some custom ones has I have a plan to do.
-Ulrik
-
Rick - Thanks for sharing your build. I like the way it's turned out (even if it's not completely finished yet. What are your impressions at this point?
Why did they purposely build ANY offset at all into the BMW, they could have built it so the wheels were properly in line, but made a decision not too, remember we're talking about BMW here, not some pre world war crap heap.
As far as I know, the rear wheels on some models were offset to counteract the unbalanced weight of one muffler. With that imbalance right to left, the bike would pull to one side without the offset.
-
Wirespokes,
Rick - Thanks for sharing your build. I like the way it's turned out (even if it's not completely finished yet. What are your impressions at this point?
Thanks, my impressions is that it is pretty damn cool! :grin: :bike-037: I have only been able to do around 200km on the bike, but it have felt very planted and I haven't noted anything on the wheel offset as far as impact on the ride. This is the only Guzzi I have ever ridden so I have no clue on how it compares to a normal 18" equipped Tonti. And as I haven't really gotten comfortable with it enough to push it during these few kilometers I don't really know how it acts under pressure. My rear tire is also brand new, so need to break that in before trying to imitate Rossi and the other guys :grin:
As far as I know, the rear wheels on some models were offset to counteract the unbalanced weight of one muffler. With that imbalance right to left, the bike would pull to one side without the offset.
Okay, haven't heard that argument before, but may very well be the case. I don't think we ever got to an agreement on the correct reason for the offset. If that is the case a lot of jap bikes should also have offset wheels. I haven't looked into it, but maybe they have too.
-Ulrik
-
Have to add my thanks for sharing the build too - great
Brain fodder, and congrats on an excellent priece of work
- it's a beautiful thing.
Maurie.
-
The bike came out awesome! I have a question though, I like the original cafe racer you had, I will also be running a mono shock and no lower frame rails. Why did the original Cafe not pass inspection? Modified frame?
-
The bike came out awesome! I have a question though, I like the original cafe racer you had, I will also be running a mono shock and no lower frame rails. Why did the original Cafe not pass inspection? Modified frame?
I actually never tried to do an inspection on the bike, but it is strictly forbidden to modify the frame in anyway in Denmark if you don't have some certificates that show that the new frame is safe to use. It is really difficult to get these papers and they are so expensive that it would be silly to spend time and money to get it. And I like the look of the original frame with twin shocks.
Mainly it was changed out to avoid a lot of bureaucracy.
Thanks for the nice reply :grin: the bike is still far from finished but it is running and with license plates now at least :)
-Ulrik
-
Keep it up brother!!!! From one Dane mutt to another Dane!!!
-
Hi Ulrik
What a nice build. It must be a bit hard to work so far away from your shop and still make such nice progress. We may not be too far from each other when you're back in Denmark, I live about 10km south of Kolding.
Per
-
Hej Per,
Thanks a lot, well it is a bit annoying to be so far away when there is so many things I still would like to do. I plan to come to Denmark next months for around six weeks or so, so there should be plenty of time to get some work done :grin:
I am located just outside Faaborg/Svendborg, so there will be around 150ish km. But again, that's just a short ride :)
-Ulrik
-
So I have finally been able to do some work on the bike and also getting to ride it a bit. There has been some up's and down's but we're moving in the right direction.
I was still waiting for my tank to be repainted as there had been a small damage to the paint under the tank filler, the painter didn't want to put the new decals on without me overlooking the process. So that delayed the job a bit.
(http://i.imgur.com/bq52I5b.jpg)
Tank has received new decals and is ready for clear coat.
While I was waiting for the tank to get finished, I fixed some issues I found last time around.
(http://i.imgur.com/QATi9KQ.jpg)
I helicoiled the rear drives drain plug as the threads were stripping. I ended up chucking the rear drive up in the pillar drill, but I admit it wasn't the best setup, even with plenty of grease I didn't catch all the chips as some fell into the drive. Luckily I could get most of it out again, so I don't expect any issues with it.
The exhaust showed to be a major job as it was close to impossible to get the damn connection pipe out from one of the mufflers. It did come out in the end, so all was good and I could put back the exhaust without leaks.
(http://i.imgur.com/zeaGe7L.jpg)
Changed the rear master cylinder from the 15m to an 11mm. Before I had a rock hard brake pedal without being able to get any braking power from it. The change to the 11mm MC changed the pedal so I have a bit more travel and more braking power so that's nice.
(http://i.imgur.com/khjJe1Z.jpg)
Made a new bracket for the brake fluid reservoir as the original aluminium bracket broke of on the first trip after getting the tank back on.
(http://i.imgur.com/5IQvIJu.jpg)
Bike after getting the tank back together.
After getting the bike back together and up and running I got 150km out of the bike before the flywheel bolts snapped and I had to push the bike home the last 6km :rolleyes:
So back to splitting the bike apart again...
(http://i.imgur.com/WAeuze3.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qwHEKY8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XeLaOr0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/mFSray0.jpg)
All bolts had snapped.
(http://i.imgur.com/8WTq8Vc.jpg)
I suspect this aluminium spacer to be the culprit of the snapped bolts. It was used to space the flywheel from the crank. I think the aluminium has been squashed by the bolts and the bolts has loosened up over time and go so loose that they didn't clamp the flywheel anymore leading to me pushing instead of riding.
(http://i.imgur.com/xXrFGfr.jpg)
Is there any of you that has seen this kind of flywheel clutch package before? It looks pretty DIY to me. The ring gear is the actual guzzi ring gear that has been flipped around and modified to fit the car like pressure plate.
(http://i.imgur.com/F93nQXU.jpg)
And this is how you look when you just pushed 6km home in the middle of the night. Up hill for the last two kilometers :grin:
(http://i.imgur.com/TMIWx5c.jpg)
Original flywheel back on the engine.
(http://i.imgur.com/mRcistV.jpg)
Back together after the clutch change.
(http://i.imgur.com/mkg8ZuW.jpg)
The bike had this hydraulic clutch cylinder when I bought it and I figured I would try it out now that all the plumping for it was already there. Honestly I don't know how good idea that was as it seems like I have nothing but problems with the damn thing. If I can find a clutch lever that matches the brake I'm very tempted to throw the hydraulic one very far away!
(http://i.imgur.com/SFusBu3.jpg)
So far I have found that the clutch master cylinder is leaking so you can pull the clutch and it declutches very shortly and then the pressure drops and the clutch grips again. The first rides on the bike it was possible to ride it still and I got it to work pretty well but it went down hill on the last ride to the point where it was completely unrideable. I guess a seal kit is in order.
That's all for this time around. I only have a few days left in Denmark and a seal kit can't arrive soon enough to make sense to fix it this time around. I'm also rebuilding the engine for my old Alfa Romeo, so I have plenty of things to do :grin:
-Ulrik
-edit to fix typo 13/11/2017
-
That's a lot of trouble for a summer "vacation" - Guzzi's are way more fun to ride than to push.
As for the hydraulic clutch I would recommend to go back to the mechanical setup. It's not that hard to pull and unless you drive in stop&go traffic it's not an issue IMO.
It's a shame you can't enjoy the nice riding weather the last day's you are here...
-
Yeah, I have been working quite much this "vacation", we also remounted the fuel injection pump back on my buddys Alfa Romeo Montreal, that was also a big job :) So lots of wrenching in the last months time.
If I can find a cable clutch lever that matches the brembo PS16 master brake cylinder then I will definitely consider very strongly to change it out. One little problem with it might be that there will be space issues with the rear brake master. But I would think that it will fit. Even if it will be a tight fit. I will definitely try it out if I continue to have problems with the hydraulic one. First try will be a new seal kit as this is only 20euro and a new setup with clutch lever and a new cable will be a lot more than that.
-Ulrik
-
A few pictures of the other projects as I know you guys like pictures :grin:
Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT 1967:
Engine ready to be taken out:
(http://i.imgur.com/FUOoYjt.jpg)
On it's way:
(http://i.imgur.com/1tOXJOO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/WJ2rzF8.jpg)
And completely removed.
The engine is currently taken apart and all the parts are getting prepared for putting back together again. The main and rod bearings was completely shot and had to be ground to second and third undersize. I hit a roadblock yesterday when I found out that one of the new pistons didn't match the others, luckily the parts supplier has send off a new piston and liner today on express shipping, so I should have it this week. The three identical pistons have been balanced to 490,3grams each. This was the weight of the lightest piston including rings and wrist pin and the two others were matched to this weight. Now I just need to balance the last piston to this weight to get all four to be exactly the same weight. And then assemble it all of course.
Alfa Romeo Montreal 1971: (not mine)
(http://i.imgur.com/wWPxNht.jpg)
Spica pump has been refitted after getting rebuild by specialist. All fuel hoses has also been changed and a lot of other small jobs have been carried out. Tomorrow we will go and pickup the car from a specialist who rebuild the rear axle and some other jobs that my friend didn't have time to fix himself.
And a small teaser of my new bike :grin:
(http://i.imgur.com/2O20Z9J.jpg)
I bought it in the current state and have bought a new wiring loom from Gregory Bender including his relay solution. There is a lot of other small jobs that also needed. Lot of the cables need proper fittings and throttle and choker cables need to be made or fixed. Mostly small jobs, but I don't have anymore time to get it fixed this time. Work has been focused on the other Guzzi, my Alfa and some small jobs on my classic mini which I'm using as my service car/ daily driver.
-Ulrik
-
I have a similar rear master setup than yours, perhaps a bit further out since I run Tarozzi rearset.
But as far as clearance, you should be all set if the master is "outside" the bottom rails, I can shoot a picture if you need
-
Okay, I'm sure I can make it fit, if there is small clearance issues I can just space the master cylinder out a bit and change the bracket on the pedal arm.
The master cylinder is outside the bottom rails already so there should not be any trouble with running the cable through.
I will try the seal kit and if that doesn't work I will change it back to cable. It is just a lot more work as the slave cylinder seems to be pretty well stuck in the bore. We'll see in a years time or when ever I get back to work on it.
I got married and there's a baby girl coming in October, so I don't expect to have a lot of chances to work on the bike :-)
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
-
Rick4003
Your buddy has a Montreal?
Filth :evil: :bow: :thumb:
Your "new" bike looks very good by the way :drool:
-
I got married and there's a baby girl coming in October,
Congrats. Oh, that won't change your life. :evil: You'll still have *plenty* of time for all these projects.. :smiley: :boozing:
-
Rick4003
Your buddy has a Montreal?
Filth :evil: :bow: :thumb:
He does indeed :grin: Super cool car, we drove it to Denmark from Rome where he bought it. That was a pretty nice roadtrip :azn: Only the radiator fan broke down. But the more we fix on the car the more surprised we are that we made it all the way home :grin:
(http://i.imgur.com/ypu9y5U.jpg)
Your "new" bike looks very good by the way :drool:
It does doesn't it! I'm looking so much forward to getting some time to finish it up! But that will probably be some years from now :grin:
Congrats. Oh, that won't change your life. :evil: You'll still have *plenty* of time for all these projects.. :smiley: :boozing:
Yeah That's what I been telling everyone! It won't change a thing, I will still be having lots of time on my hands :grin:
-Ulrik
-
Yeah That's what I been telling everyone! It won't change a thing, I will still be having lots of time on my hands :grin:
-Ulrik
Ulrik - Don't worry, it will not be permanent. I got four kids, 3, 7, 9 and 11yrs.... and I still have time for my Guzzi. I even get commanded to take a ride some times when I've been too grumpy, but I'm also very well married :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: (ps. my wife is reading over my shoulder)
-
Ulrik - Don't worry, it will not be permanent. I got four kids, 3, 7, 9 and 11yrs.... and I still have time for my Guzzi. I even get commanded to take a ride some times when I've been too grumpy, but I'm also very well married :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: (ps. my wife is reading over my shoulder)
I don't expect it to be permanent, but I do expect to be quite busy the first year :grin: I'm also starting a new job in November, so lots of things to learn.
We're planning of moving to Denmark from Indonesia next year, so I hope to get my workshop up and running, then I should be able to get some more wrenching time :grin:
-Ulrik
-
Lovely job Rick....you are aware that the moto-spezial hydraulic clutch isn't compatible with brake fluid? maybe that's the problem...they insist on Glysantin( german-can't remember what that is in English !) being the onl suitable fluid to avoid their seals perishing.
-
Lovely job Rick....you are aware that the moto-spezial hydraulic clutch isn't compatible with brake fluid? maybe that's the problem...they insist on Glysantin( german-can't remember what that is in English !) being the onl suitable fluid to avoid their seals perishing.
I was not aware of this, Thanks for letting me know. I have not been able to find the manufacturer of the hydraulic clutch, but now I googled Moto-spezial, you are right it is definitely their clutch cylinder. I guess that the seals are already shot now then. I will have to find a replacement set and some of this Glysantin fluid.
From a quick trip to google, Glysantin seems to be a cooling liquid, seems to be a strange choice to use for clutch liquid. I have to look into this.
-Ulrik
-
This guy has taken over on some of the moto spezial bits including the hydro clutch.
http://radicalguzzi.com/motor_getriebe
Likely to have seals and advice!
-
Yes I found out that radical guzzi had taken over the parts. Might be worth it to send him an email.
I might change out the cylinder with a home made one that can deal with brake fluid. I'm thinking seals from a mastercylinder would do the job. They are super cheap and with a bit of lathe work and a quick trip to the milling machine, a new slave cylinder should be a easy thing to make. :grin:
-Ulrik
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
-
One thing I dislike about the Moto-spezial one is that it is a pain in the butt to bleed the air out of it. So if I make a new one I would make a little riser pipe that moves the bleed nipple to the left side, just above the gear arm on the back of the gearbox. Then it should be easy to get to, and the clutch fluid should be easy to clean off if there is any spills while bleeding.
-Ulrik
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
-
Update! Or not really, but I found out where my old lightweight clutch pressure plate came from!
(https://i.imgur.com/0rK0RVJ.jpg)
This is the clutch that fell of the crank.
(https://i.imgur.com/e9BuOHm.jpg)
And this one is according to ebay a clutch for a v7 classic 2008 to 2011. Looks very similar to mine.
So the pressure plate has been taken from the small block and then the ringgear from the bigblock has been flipped front to back and drilled to mate up with the small block pressure plate. The clutch disk is a single one from the normal dual plate big block clutch.
Mystery solved!
Oh and no there is no other progress on the bike. I haven't been in Denmark for long enough to work on it. Only landed at 06.00 on tuesday and took off at 18:00 on the same day. Only enough time to race to my parents to pick up my stored winter clothes :grin:
(https://i.imgur.com/gqbzHJ6.jpg)
It still looks like this. But now with a small bubble on the tank just next to the filler cap... Guess I should have filled in the void with lead instead of letting the painter fill it with body filler.
And I have a plan to make up a new hydraulic clutch slave cylinder to replace the moto spezial one currently on it. It will be made of stainless steel and will have a "remote" air bleed screw so it shouldn't be necessary to take the bike half apart to bleed the clutch. (Yes I know changing to the cable clutch would be easier, but then my clutch and brake levers doesn't match anymore... )
-Ulrik
-
Ulrik,
Curious as to what jetting you used on your PHF36 carbs, if you recall? Thanks!
Aldo
-
I got married and there's a baby girl coming in October, so I don't expect to have a lot of chances to work on the bike :-)
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
Hey Rick, what happened to this project? Guess you are more concerned about changing diapers and get some sleep than working on your italian mistress ;-)
-
Ulrik,
Curious as to what jetting you used on your PHF36 carbs, if you recall? Thanks!
Aldo
Hi Aldo,
Honestly I can't remember. I have to install some bigger idle jets as it is popping on stable throttle openings less than 1/8 open. At bigger throttle openings it runs pretty well for now, but I have to get some more time on it to get it jetted properly.
When I do get back on the project I'll post the settings. But don't hold your breath. It won't be any time soon.
-Ulrik
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
-
Hey Rick, what happened to this project? Guess you are more concerned about changing diapers and get some sleep than working on your italian mistress ;-)
Hej Perter,
The project is still on, but I don't have any possibility to work on the bike for now. We are currently living in Bali and the bike is in Denmark. Just got a new job too so all my traveling are spend on the job. Next job on the bike is to fit a new clutch cylinder or change it out to cable. But when that will happen I don't know. My dad sold the workshop so all my tools are in storage. I expect I won't have a proper place to work until I get a house in DK to move all the stuff and tools to. So progress will be slow.
The project isn't stopped just on hold for a bit :grin:
-Ulrik
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
-
Ulrik,
Curious as to what jetting you used on your PHF36 carbs, if you recall? Thanks!
Aldo
Hi Aldo
I run PHF36's on my SP1000 and have fiddled a while with jetting. I ended up running 136 mains' AR268 Atomizers, K18 Needle in lowest position (Clip at top) and 70 pilot jets. With this combo the idle mixture screw is ~1 3/4 out and there is absolutely no popping and it pulls even up to 7500
I found part of my problem was improper float setting and did a readjustment according to this instruction (left picture) https://www.ducatimeccanica.com/float_levels.html
-
Hi Aldo
I run PHF36's on my SP1000 and have fiddled a while with jetting. I ended up running 136 mains' AR268 Atomizers, K18 Needle in lowest position (Clip at top) and 70 pilot jets. With this combo the idle mixture screw is ~1 3/4 out and there is absolutely no popping and it pulls even up to 7500
I found part of my problem was improper float setting and did a readjustment according to this instruction (left picture) https://www.ducatimeccanica.com/float_levels.html
Thanks Perter
-
Hi Aldo,
Honestly I can't remember. I have to install some bigger idle jets as it is popping on stable throttle openings less than 1/8 open. At bigger throttle openings it runs pretty well for now, but I have to get some more time on it to get it jetted properly.
When I do get back on the project I'll post the settings. But don't hold your breath. It won't be any time soon.
-Ulrik
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
My thanks. Safe travels and hope to hear your carb specs at your earliest convenience , cheers, Aldo
-
Great taste in motorcycles and cars!
-
Great taste in motorcycles and cars!
Thanks Jim, I tend to agree :grin: although they seldom work, but that's just due to lack of time from my side.
-Ulrik
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
-
So I'm back in Denmark, have pulled the T5 out of storage and got started on the clutch issue.
Turns out that the master cylinder has been sleeved and fitted with X-ring seals. I have been able to find new seals and should be able to rebuild it no problems.
Sleeve and piston as fitted to the mastercylinder.
(https://i.imgur.com/tJAhA0z.jpg)
Piston assembly removed.
(https://i.imgur.com/hr3L41J.jpg?2)
Old slave cylinder as mounted to the bike. Notice how the bleeding screw is positioned. This is the main reason why I want to make a new cylinder to replace it.
(https://i.imgur.com/iVWP7Nb.jpg)
Old slave cylinder disassembled.
(https://i.imgur.com/W1MOqmD.jpg)
After a few hours on the lathe I ended up with this. A few more bits are needed to complete the cylinder.
(https://i.imgur.com/x7G40Qo.jpg)
Closeup of piston assembly. The one on the left is the slug that fits in the end of the gearbox that pushes on the thrust bearing. The right one is the piston itself. The lower groove is for an x-ring dust seal and the top is for the U-seal that will be the main seal. The seal is not flexible enough to being fitted by forcing it around the outside diameter, so I made the piston two part with a small disk that is pressed on after the seal is fitted. See next pictures. The small rod to the left is a pushrod that will sit between the piston and the slug in the gearbox so there won't be any problems if there is a bit of misalignment between the slavecylinder and the bore in the gearbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/AZc2LUt.jpg)
Piston with U-seal fitted and x-ring dust seal beside it.
(https://i.imgur.com/ry5w62V.jpg)
Side view
(https://i.imgur.com/r48NsR9.jpg)
Completely assembled piston with both seals.
(https://i.imgur.com/Km6gDHr.jpg)
This is as far as I managed to get yesterday. Today I'm having a trip to Copenhagen, so won't be able to work on it until tomorrow. I count on finishing up on Wednesday and getting the bike back together and on the road :)
-Ulrik
-
What a lovely job :thumb:
-
Great workmanship! :1:
-
Thanks for the comment guys :)
I got some time in on Tuesday anyway as I came back from Copenhagen quite early.
Welding of the side plates.
(https://i.imgur.com/XmWSAPh.jpg)
Welding of the adjuster slug
(https://i.imgur.com/60F5jFO.jpg)
First test fitting.
(https://i.imgur.com/kzqLh3D.jpg)
One of many test fittings, now with the bleeder pipe welded on. The bleeding fitting exits just above the geararm, very easy to get to, forgot to take a picture, will post a picture tomorrow.
(https://i.imgur.com/vhhGgmc.jpg)
Seen from above
(https://i.imgur.com/XHebg9l.jpg)
Finished slave cylinder, piston and bolts for adjuster and special M6 banjo bolt.
(https://i.imgur.com/JbsfFsI.jpg)
Before welding the cylinder was bored to an undersize so I could make the finish bore after welding to avoid issues with distortion from the welding.
Seen from front side
(https://i.imgur.com/c3vwOCc.jpg)
Piston and tool for fitting the piston to the cylinder. The U-seal requires a big chamfer to being able to push it in the bore. I could not make a sufficient chamfer on the cylinder itself, so I made a special tool that has the chamfer and a recess underneath that fits snugly on the slave cylinder.
(https://i.imgur.com/JIrTHVe.jpg)
Fitted on the slave cylinder ready for installation of the piston.
(https://i.imgur.com/5IN7FJY.jpg)
Final installation, now complete with bleed screw, bracket for the pipe and the piston has been installed. The push rod that sits in between the piston and the thrust bushing has been lubed liberally with sticky lithium grease, because that was what I had. The rest of the pins and bolts have also been lubed with lithium grease.
(https://i.imgur.com/MP5A5x8.jpg)
Finally fully assembled and ready for the test ride!
(https://i.imgur.com/I5RoBDX.jpg)
Test ride went very well and the clutch works beautifully :)
Planning to sort out some other small issues tomorrow and counting on going on a trip to Switzerland in the weekend, have to go visit the office, and why fly when there is tonnes of great roads, both on the way there and especially down there!
Will update the next few things that needs sorting later this week. :)
-Ulrik
-
Thanks for those great pics, Rick :grin: :thumb:
-
Thanks for following along :) It makes it more fun to post when you know somebody is following.
I have more and more doubt about this type of hydraulic clutch setup. Now it works and it works very well, but I don't know if it is an actual improvement over a well lubed cable. So far I like the way it is working and feel is also good. The main reason for not going back to cable was simply to prove to myself that it could be done better than it was. I will try to measure the force it takes to pull in the clutch lever if I can find a luggage weight to measure it with. It is not super hard but it is no feather light action either. Maybe next week I can try and measure the cable pull clutch from my buddys G5 and see how the difference is.
Just put in one step bigger idle jets so now the jetting is:
Main 134
Idle 54
Needle K-18
Choke 70
Slide I believe is a 60. Will check tomorrow and will check needle height.
I suspect it is running a bit rich at the moment so will try to do some plug pulls tomorrow and see how they look.
Did another 100km on the bike today and it is running very well. On the control side of things. I have still not gotten used to the two button indicator setup. Mainly the right side indicator button is what bugs me, very time you want to indicate to the right you let go of the throttle a bit or completely to reach around and push the button. Makes it really difficult to be smooth on the gas in and out of right hand turns. Roundabouts are the worst on the indicator side of things.
Mostly minor issues or concerns now, the bikes rides well overall :bike-037:
I received the AFR500v2 wideband controller the other day, so might make up a fitting to put in the exhaust without having to plug it directly in the header pipes. Will see how much time I got on my hands.
Took it down to check on the boat :)
(https://i.imgur.com/OGecScx.jpg)
-
A few more thoughts and niggles.
I have now done around 500 km on the bike the last few days, jetting is close to being good, although I suspect it running on the lean side. Will try to make up the pipe for the wideband controller and see if I can get some readings from the exhaust.
Still dislike the two button indicator setup. Will probably change it to a 3-way switch and push buttons for light. Hoping to find a newer Ducati left switch, they should have this setup.
Seat is too low and foot pegs are too high for rides with full gear, if I ride just in my jeans I don't have so much trouble, but it is really cramped with riding pants on too. Might have to think up some new foot peg mounting and make a new seat. I want the bike to be comfortable enough to ride longer distances with no major discomfort. So these two mods are definitely going to happen at some point.
Clutch seem to work better and better, the clutch action is pretty light now. Still don't have anything to measure it with.
-Ulrik
-
Current jetting of the bike that I think is working well is:
Main jet 134
Idle jet 54
Needle K-18, third notch from top.
Throttle slides I have found not to be the same :( 60/3 on the left side and 50/3 on the right side. I have to dig into my stash and see if the slides from the phf30s are the same, then I can try those out if they are not too worn.
-Ulrik
-
The throttle slides are different :shocked:
But from what you have demonstrated Rick, you could make your own version :grin: :thumb:
-
Haha, I could probably, but I think it would take a lot longer than to dig through my pile of parts to find the phf30's I have somewhere. I believe the slides should be the same as for the 36's. Hopefully they are not too worn and will match. [emoji4]
I don't know why on earth he has send me two different slides in the carbs I have bought as a kit. Didn't think about checking it back then. Don't know if he would like to send me a new slide to match two years after I bought them.
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
-
I promised to post some pictures of how the bleed screw exits above the shifter arm but forgot about it, so here you go :)
(https://i.imgur.com/mtZAZsn.jpg)
I have also changed the front tire as it was 11 years old. As mentioned in a post several pages back I bought a set of Bridgestone S21 tires, but never got them mounted. I will not mount the rear tire before the current Michelin Pilot Power 2ct is worn enough to justify it. I installed an Outlex tubeless kit on the front rim and so far it looks to do the job with no leaks :) I have 400km on the tire since changing it on sunday and it doesn't seem to have lost any air.
Cleaning of the rim to ensure a good bond. I used a kitchen towel and brake cleaner. There was a lot of dust and dirt inside the tire and on the rim from I can only guess is the tire and tube rubbing against each other. It took a while to get it clean!
(https://i.imgur.com/stfovD7.jpg)
Rim with the tubeless kit installed. There is two layers of tape, the first one is a rubbery tape that sticks on both sides. This one you put down and ensure that there is a good bond all over and take care to get all the air squeezed out so there isn't any air pockets. The next layer is a protection tape, that isn't really a tape as it doesn't stick but is stuck on the double stick first layer. First layer is put on with the joint to the left of the valve hole and the second layer is put on with the joint on the right side. On the last joint you put an extra layer of double stick and protection tape.
(https://i.imgur.com/8d63WAO.jpg)
This rim has the tubeless tire safety beads on, so I should be good to go with them.
-Ulrik
-
interesting! I didn't even know these kinds of kits existed! Is the side of the tire sealed by the air pressure inside the tire? Also, will tyre shops service your wheels?
-
The tape only seals the spokes from leaking. The tire seals like a normal tubeless. It requires the tire to be tubeless of course, but you can hardly get any tires that is not meant for tubeless applications anymore.
If you can get a tire shop to change your tires afterwards, I have no idea. I have always changed my own tires, so I have never asked a tire shop if they would do it or not. If you're in US I'm guessing no. Here in Denmark, you could probably get them to change your tires no problem. They would probably say that if it leaks or anything happens to you, it is your own responsibility.
There is lots of different ways to make a spoke rim tubeless. Try and do a search on it, adv rider has a few threads on it. And I know there should be some threads on it here also. If I would do it again, the i think I would go for the 3m extreme adhesion tape instead of the outlex kit. The idea is the same but the cost is very different [emoji4]
The front rim was a bit tricky to do as the tape was wider than the recess in the rim, so some of the tape would be on the side "wall" of the rim. I expect the rear to be much easier to do.
-Ulrik
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
-
I managed to get around 800km on the Guzzi this time around and it was running smoothly most of the time. I suspect the springs for the ignition advance is old and stretched as it has been pinging a bit. I checked the timing and it was right on the spot at full advance and it was mostly pinging between 2500-3500. I reduced the total advance a bit and this made it run better without pinging. New advance springs will be on order for the next round of spareparts.
Clutch is still working perfectly.
I was supposed to leave for Bali on friday but the company didn't want to pay for the change of ticket, So I had a few extra days on my hands. In an earlier post I pulled the engine out of my Alfa and I took the extra few days in Denmark as a chance to get it put back together.
The empty block.
(https://i.imgur.com/B1jsSB1.jpg)
Parts to go in. New liners and pistons, new small end bushings in conrods, reground crankshaft and new main and big end bearings.
(https://i.imgur.com/weeov2d.jpg)
Pistons on the rods.
(https://i.imgur.com/vjSYJIY.jpg)
Crank, liners and pistons in block and all torqued down. nuts locked with loctite 270 as recommended by Jim K in his book on high performance Alfa twin cams.
(https://i.imgur.com/JOgrB33.jpg)
Block with front cover and sump mounted. Oil pump mounted and timed. The oilpump is driving the distributor, so if it is installed out of timing the distributor don�t pop in in the right direction. The engine can run, but the number 1 high voltage wire must be positioned different than normal. Makes trouble shooting a bit more troublesome.
(https://i.imgur.com/xmqpbZg.jpg)
Cylinder head mounted. New valves, new guides and new springs. Was overhauled by a local engine rebuilding shop, so it was al ready to be mounted to the block.
And the completed engine.
(https://i.imgur.com/HVXV4hj.jpg)
At this time I started to clean up all the left over packing from new parts and found a oil slinger washer that I missed when mounting the front cover! Damn it! Cylinder head and sump has to come off to get the front cover off meaning an extra full day of work. I had to fly back to Indonesia on the same day, so that was not an option.
The offending washer. 2mm to big to go through the hole for the front crankseal.
(https://i.imgur.com/BxrqlUL.jpg)
In the lathe, made a little holding tool to being able to trim the 2mm off the diameter.
(https://i.imgur.com/r3G3wvG.jpg)
Washer in the right place after trimming of the diameter. A high quality crank seal will be put in to offset any problems the trimming might have done. I don't expect it to make any difference in the washers ability to sling away the oil from the crank seal.
(https://i.imgur.com/gNCKM0D.jpg)
Completed engine, now with all washers installed. Keeping the Guzzi company until I return back in august.
(https://i.imgur.com/wqwcW55.jpg)
-Ulrik
-
Nice job, must be "relaxing" to get back to work with such a busy vacation! :wink:
-
Great pics Rick :thumb:
-
Nice job, must be "relaxing" to get back to work with such a busy vacation! :wink:
It was actually quite relaxing to assemble the engine. Until I found that damn washer at least [emoji6]
For work I can't quite complain, I just got back home to Bali and now our local volcano erupted so they closed the airport. So now I can not do anything else than hang out with the girls at home, so that is not bad at all [emoji4]
-
I'm no expert in photoshop and I don't even have the program, so I played around in paint a bit and came up with this.
(https://i.imgur.com/4zlj25W.jpg)
This would be the allround theme that the bike should take in the furture. Seat will be a bench style seat in brown, tool box in black and side covers for the toolbox in same pearl white as the tank.
With the new seat there will also be made a new rear fender to match the front aluminium fender. There will be new more classic looking indicators too.
The seat will be quite a bit taller than the old one as the riding position right now is very cramped. I will see after the seat is made if I have to lower the footpegs also.
-Ulrik
-
I really dig the point of getting a taller seat, I have a low seat and Tarozzi rearsets on mine too and with 1,84cm height and inseam between 32 and 34 inches in jeans it becomes a challenge to fit the legs. Especially for an older man like me :embarrassed:
On the other hand, a plain bench seat like you illustrated may make the bike look even longer and lower than you like. I know it's a matter of taste and your propsal is definetely classic, personally I just like to have a shorter and more compressed look on my bikes so I would probably shorten the seat a bit or make it decline in an angle to meet the fender?
I like the idea to close the hole under the seat. As you may see, I have the same "cafe racer hole" in mine and it tends to be outdated now, so I'm looking in closing the hole as well.
Just some thoughts - it's a nice bike in any incarnation
-
Hej Per,
I get the thoughts about the seat, it is definitely just a sketch but I think that the height and length of the seat will make the bike look more balanced than with the current seat. At the moment the bikes looks as long as a locomotive when you are standing next to it. So I don't think it will hurt with the longish bench seat. I would like to be able to carry a passenger and to be able to strap things on the back of the seat. How it ends up looking is not cast in stone so it might be changed around when I get started to do some actual work on the seat project. I'm 187cm and 34inch inseam so you get the idea about the taller seat ;)
The filling of the hole has been a long time plan of mine. I think I will make a combined toolbox and airbox. The trumpets will be dropped in favor of a well designed (hopefully) Airbox that will be in the front of the tool/airbox. My idea is to use a flat panel style airfilter from a car and then make an access door through the toolbox so the filter can be easily serviced or exchanged. The snorkel for the airbox will then run through the "V" of the engine and catch air in the front triangle of the frame. How long the snorkel have to be I have to do some calculations on. It is apparently quite a science making an airbox.
Side covers/doors for the tool box will be in the style of the V7 sport.
-Ulrik
-
Great pictures of your Alfa motor, I love the sump casting, Italian art work at its finest! The Guzzi is looking pretty smart too.
-
Great pictures of your Alfa motor, I love the sump casting, Italian art work at its finest! The Guzzi is looking pretty smart too.
I agree, they really did make a great engine when they designed this one. Consider that this engine was designed more than 65 years ago it is very high tech and well made. If the block doesn't freeze and cracks then it can be rebuild as many times as you want. All the wear parts can be changed out as I more or less did with this rebuild. On that account it is a bit like a Guzzi engine. Now after the rebuild I just hope it spins like it is famous for, because it did not do that before the rebuild that's for sure!
Thanks on the bike too :)
-Ulrik
-
I agree, they really did make a great engine when they designed this one. Consider that this engine was designed more than 65 years ago it is very high tech and well made. If the block doesn't freeze and cracks then it can be rebuild as many times as you want. All the wear parts can be changed out as I more or less did with this rebuild. On that account it is a bit like a Guzzi engine. Now after the rebuild I just hope it spins like it is famous for, because it did not do that before the rebuild that's for sure!
Thanks on the bike too :)
-Ulrik
Gotta love Italian engineering, their QQ / QC may not be the best but their designs are second to none. Only an Italian engineer can make an alumnum casting a thing of beauty
-
A little update.
I haven't been in denmark much, but some things have happened. We bought a house and is planning to move next spring, so after that there should be a lot more progress on the bike. The house needs a lot of works, so most of my effort will be focused on that. But the house has a really nice workshop attached, so FINALLY I will have my very own workshop and can move all my tools down there. I cannot wait to get everything installed and working! :)
I was planning to take the bike to a visit to the office, a trip of around 200km each way and had to have some way of bringing my luggage, so I decided to make a baggage rack for the bike. It is now official that this bike is not a Café racer, even if it might look like one a bit :)
Setup of the first parts
(https://i.imgur.com/PtPm2Gh.jpg)
Side view
(https://i.imgur.com/L0cmr5Y.jpg)
Test fitting of the hoop
(https://i.imgur.com/g3lrqQH.jpg)
Painting
(https://i.imgur.com/1rrtztk.jpg)
Finished and fitted
(https://i.imgur.com/LGABKFO.jpg)
The trip to the office on the Guzzi didn't happen as the weather went nuts and it turned into a hurricane of wind and rain. Had to take the car instead. But now I have a rack for the bike at least :)
-Ulrik
-
Nice fabrication work :thumb:
-
Finally got time to get some work done on the bike. The last many months have been used to move half way across the planet, get another kid and working on our new (old) house.
The first thing i did to the bike was to mount a new handlebar instead of the clipons, despite being one of the younger members of this site I am still to old to spend any reasonable amount of time behind clipons. So new handlebars it was.
I haven't taken any pictures during the installation of handlebars as it was pretty straight forward. I turned some bushings to mount in the top triple tree and used a set of very cheap Chinese handle bar clamps. I used a small amount of time to dress them up a bit and gave them a quick rattle can paint job. It was mostly done to see if the handle bar position worked and I could get the clutch and brake hoses to reach.
By rerouting the clutch hose it was possible to make it reach, but the brake hoses was a no go. I had a splitter and hoses from the old Ducati fork that was on the bike and I was able to get those to fit. I needed to make new cables for the buttons and for the gas cables.
(https://i.imgur.com/mQv0daB.jpg)
I thought I had a leaking bevel drive, but it turned out to be the engine crankcase ventilation that was throwing out oil all over my rear tire, so I decided to make a new breather box in the style that fits over the central frame tube under the tank.
This was done both to attempt to get a better system than the original in frame system, but also because the frame was sandblasted before painting and there is a big risk that there is leftover sand inside the frame. Even if all the hose connections where taped off before blasting. Thirdly there is also the issue of the frame rusting.
The job was started with some cardboard aided design to get the basic shape down.
(https://i.imgur.com/DSmceuF.jpg)
Final cardboard design
(https://i.imgur.com/XTOz28t.jpg)
After I was satisfied that the shape was good and the tank would still fit over, I cut open the cardbox breather box and transferred the pieces to a 1mm stainless steel plate.
(https://i.imgur.com/XTbBDZX.jpg)
After transferring the pieces, I drilled the two inside radius' with a holesaw on the bench drill. Slowest speed, light pressure and plenty of cutting fluid did the trick.
(https://i.imgur.com/VQfucrN.jpg?1)
The rest of the cutting was done with a bench shear
(https://i.imgur.com/xBN3VK7.jpg)
The curved bottom section was bend over a 45mm tube and massaged to the right shape. The end pieces was trimmed with the bench shear and an angle grinder to a good fit. All the pieces were tacked together using very small tacks with the TIG welder.
(https://i.imgur.com/WHM1Zbr.jpg)
A middle baffle was added to the top of the box to separate the two halves most of the way down the spine. The oil/air mix enters on the left side and hopefully will separate the oil from the air mostly on the left side and then the air escapes through the line to atmosphere on the right side. The pipe to atmosphere is routed all the way to the top to gain the biggest vertical difference between the oil out and the air out.
(https://i.imgur.com/lWvpUBZ.jpg)
Right side with the air outlet pipe.
(https://i.imgur.com/MFDWNcX.jpg)
The oil returns from the two bottom corners of the tank. Left side hose connection goes straight down and connects to the engine and the right goes out the back and loops around to connect to the left pipe at a lower level. I did it this way because I want to retain as much space between the cylinders for the upcoming airbox snorkel. Its a bit difficult to see, but it is the two hose clamps that is connected to the oil drain hose that leads from right to left.
(https://i.imgur.com/O2nah2i.jpg)
I added a small baffle just after the inlet so most of the oil should condense on this baffle. Or that's the idea at least.
(https://i.imgur.com/Cw7RU5V.jpg)
Test mounting after welding top on.
(https://i.imgur.com/hFVNwzN.jpg)
Finished breather box.
(https://i.imgur.com/OlEAkNu.jpg)
The ignition coils where mounted side by side under the central frame tube, this space is now invaded by the breather box, so I had to relocate them slightly. One coil stayed in the position under the frame tube and the other was moved forward into the triangle behind the headstock.
New brackets were made for this.
(https://i.imgur.com/4nNl2kY.jpg)
One was made with a small pipe and a captive nut to make it easier to install behind the headstock.
After powder coating
(https://i.imgur.com/WTkMRNh.jpg)
Fitted in new locating.
(https://i.imgur.com/aEcBuPi.jpg)
Close up of front coil
(https://i.imgur.com/1wC1YMy.jpg)
Finished box mounted.
(https://i.imgur.com/JbFbZMl.jpg)
I realize that the oil spewing out the breather could be caused by a stuck ball valve in the big breather tube and this is likely the main cause of the problems. But for the other reasons above I still wanted to make the new breather box. The valve did seem to stick when I pulled it out and there was also mayo in it. So it got cleaned and hopefully I can go out on some longer rides to get it nice and hot.
An unrelated thing was that I was getting quite some pinging when riding the bike. When I first started the bike up, it had the old DIY flywheel on with no ignition marks on it. I setup the timing using a degree wheel and the straw method of finding TDC. In hindsight this was/is not precise enough to set the ignition. So I redid the ignition settings using the marks on the original flywheel now mounted to statically time the engine and sure enough I was too advanced on the timing. Later I will have to set the timing with a strobe light at max advance.
I made a little wrench for reaching the distributor bolts as these are almost impossible to get to with a normal ring spanner.
(https://i.imgur.com/pfNPgAq.jpg)
I still need to setup the carbs correctly, but I am more convinced I will be able to get a good setup with the ignition set correctly.
Happy that everything was now back together I just did a quick test of lights after putting the seat on and found that no lights worked :undecided:
fiddling a bit with the grounds got one indicator to work but still no rear light or left indicator... So that's the job now. I do have another rear light and indicators in a box somewhere, so I will dig those out and mount them.
Hopefully I will be able to enjoy riding soon :)
- Ulrik
-
Fantastic fabrication skills with the breather box, very cool!
Your distributor wrench looks great, thanks for sharing the idea, making one is on my to do list.
-
+1 marvelous fab skills! Can you make one for me? :grin:
-
Thanks both of you. The wrench needs a little more stiffening I think it is bending quite a lot, but it works very well. I think you can even get to the bolts with the tank still on. Although I haven't tried yet.
+1 marvelous fab skills! Can you make one for me? :grin:
I possibly could. I have a friend with access to a laser cutter, that would make the fabrication much easier. Although I can see that on your 1000S there isn't a lot of room around the central frame tube as there is a lot of things going on here.
On my bike I have maxed out the dimensions as much as possible in an attempt to get the biggest possible volume.
A production version must be smaller to be able to ensure that it would fit your model.
-Ulrik
-
I will probably leave the 1000S as is, but I really admire the work done on this. :thumb:
-
I will probably leave the 1000S as is, but I really admire the work done on this. :thumb:
Your 1000S also looks magnificent now. It would be a shame to start modifying it now. I think I would keep it as stock as possible if I had one of those. Luckily mine is a lowly T5 so I don't feel bad about modifying it :grin:
-
As mentioned in one of the last post the rear light and one of the indicators stopped working when I had gotten the breather box fixed. I believe the blame is going to a too high voltage adjustment on the regulator.
I turned it down again to charge at 13.3volt now.
The LED tail light was toast and the indicator was just a blown bulb. It turned out that a new bulb was half the price of a new LED indicator. And as one of the old indicators had already been broken off and epoxied on again I went for a new set of LED indicators. A new LED tail light of the same style (Ducati Monster 900 from 1994-200?) was sourced.
To keep the MOT man happy, I had to move the tail light back so the license plate light would actually light up the license plate. I reused the old bracket but fabricated a new cover for the bracket so it looked more sleek.
(https://i.imgur.com/55rolnr.jpg)
The cover was just made of some thin mild steel plate and MIG welded together.
After powder coating:
(https://i.imgur.com/t3ebWX1.jpg)
After fitting the new breather box, I still had oil spewing out on the rear tire so the problem was indeed the check valve in the hose. Turned out that it was so worn that it could lock itself in the closed position.
(https://i.imgur.com/RPxlbjP.jpg)
If your ball on the check valve sticks this much out the bottom, throw the thing in the bin and get a new one.
Luckily I had another one in good condition. I fitted this one and the problem was solved. I have driven 1000km this week and not a drop of oil have left the breather tube! :bike-037:
(https://i.imgur.com/u3kDwGz.jpg)
From the trip to Northern Jutland.
On this trip I had some issues with the charging system. It started dropping in voltage and I stopped and took the cover of the generator. I squeezed all the connectors a bit to get better connection and fiddled a bit with the brushes. It seemed to solve the issue and it charged nicely all the way to my destination.
On the way back it stopped charging again and this time I ran completely out of power. It was not even possible to push start it. By luck I had come to a stop a few hundred meters from a guy driving old Land Rovers. He and his wife were very helpful and let me borrow a battery charger and some brake cleaner to clean the quite dirty brushes in the generator. (I made sure not to use too much and to not get it into the windings.)
The bike started up and although the voltage was dropping once in a while it keep charging well enough to get me the 280kms home again.
I checked out the whole charging system the day after in the garage and it turned out that the chief mechanic managed to fit a connector poorly causing the issue.... :embarrassed: All connectors were squeezed for a better fit before fitting and I checked one extra time that everything was fitted correctly on their spades.
400km was covered after fixing the issue and the voltage was constant at 13.3 volts all the way.
Carbs settings are good with no poping or backfiring.
(https://i.imgur.com/lmO0C0u.jpg)
Picking up my auction winnings :grin:
For now it seems like the bike is finally fully reliable and runs well. :)
-Ulrik
-
:thumb: :thumb:
-
Thanks for the thread. Loved the hydraulic fab. :thumb:
After fitting the new breather box, I still had oil spewing out on the rear tire so the problem was indeed the check valve in the hose.
:grin: :grin: Not that I've ever gone the long way around to cure a simple problem..
-
Thanks for the thread. Loved the hydraulic fab. :thumb: :grin: :grin: Not that I've ever gone the long way around to cure a simple problem..
Indeed, changing the valve first would definitely have solved the oil spewing problem. But to my defense it would not have solved the possible blasting sand and rust inside the frame :cool:
-
The Project isn't dead I have just been really busy with fixing up the old house in these corona times :)
I have been riding the bike quite a bit and I think I got the jetting close now. Still need to try and hook up the AFR500 and see what the air/fuel ratio actually is. Just for fun, the bike rides and pulls well now.
I had a problem with touching down with the sidestand in left hand corners like roundabouts and such. So took the exhaust off and modified/straightened the sidestand out so it tucks up under the exhaust better.
Old bendy sidestand that folds up if you take your foot off.
(https://i.imgur.com/laWyvAh.jpg?1)
Moved the spring pivot point
(https://i.imgur.com/FIoGQPa.jpg)
Finished sidestand after powder coating.
(https://i.imgur.com/RPm093a.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bMjkgbg.jpg)
The sidestand now stays put when you put it down and it tucks up very nicely. Now I will touch with the footpegs as the first contact.
When I took the exhaust apart I noticed that the link pipe between the two exhaust cans have been leaking a lot. I guess the original O-ring seal isn't up to the task, so when I put the exhaust back together I used some exhaust sealing goo and it is noticeably quieter now. The biggest problem of this new quiet is that I can now hear that my cam chain is rattling like crazy... So the bike is parked until I have time to fix this.
I want to mount a lighter flywheel at the same time as changing the cam chain, so I'll turn down one of my extra flywheels now and get that ready for installation.
Oh and I got myself a little 1037cc cylinder kit :) But thats a winter project :grin:
-
Hello Everyone!
I am not dead :grin: and nor is the Guzzi.
Had a few busy years or at least that’s how it feels like. Now a few weeks ago I finally got some time to work on the Guzzi and build the new battery box that I have been talking about for at least a year.
But first a little introduction to what I have been up to that has been limiting the Guzzi time.
1st big project.
New roof on the house – old cement tile roof was possibly about 70 years old. My best guestimations would say that the roof was laid around 1943-1952 ish. Only have some old news papers to go on. Anyway, it was time for a new roof.
Old roof:
(https://i.imgur.com/brMeJZH.jpg)
New roof:
(https://i.imgur.com/KYH7Pv7.jpg)
Other than the roof project, we have made a ton of other stuff on the house as basement wall drainage, build a large wooden terrace, new insulation in the attic and a load of other stuff. In the workshop there has also been lots of stuff going on. Work table and welding table have been built, painted and put to use, milling machine has been installed, I have built a foot pedal for the TIG welder and loads of other things to get the workspace as I want it. Still a bunch of stuff to do. But now it is very useable.
And now for the Guzzi projects.
Last year I replaced the cam chain and tensioner:
Old tensioner:
(https://i.imgur.com/AQBU7xq.jpg)
New chain and tensioner:
(https://i.imgur.com/ybJbY3B.jpg)
I drove a little bit after this, but the battery died one morning I was going out to ride with one of my friends. I did not want to buy a new small lithium battery as it didn’t have enough capacity to keep the voltage stable when riding in queue or in heavy traffic as in Copenhagen when I visit the office.
A new battery box had to be made to fit the new larger battery. This project got then delayed for about a year until I again had some time to work on it.
The box is made of 2mm aluminium and the hinge for the lid is riveted on with aluminium rivets. The box was then powder coated satin black. To hold the battery steady inside the box it was lined with 3mm rubber sheet. Two connection cables were installed on brass bolts through the top of the box to make replacement of the battery easier. And it looks cleaner when all the cables are fixed to the box instead of all running to the top of the battery.
Box top and sides tacked together:
(https://imgur.com/qml0qWJ.jpg)
Top and sides welded together:
(https://imgur.com/0zRtr0Z.jpg)
Welds ground down and mounting points added:
(https://imgur.com/yFLksPG.jpg)
Test fitting of battery:
(https://imgur.com/GlakFJy.jpg)
Connection cables:
(https://imgur.com/LDpWKfg.jpg)
Riveting of hinge:
(https://imgur.com/jHwzunH.jpg)
Finished rivets on box
(https://imgur.com/bKlSxKJ.jpg)
Bottom lid fitted and secured with special ZF gearbox screws stolen from my friends BMW x1.
(https://imgur.com/TQyahVZ.jpg)
Powder coated:
(https://imgur.com/enjn9ge.jpg)
Lined with rubber sheet:
(https://imgur.com/W05wj8U.jpg)
And fitted to the bike:
(https://imgur.com/SPKUyjj.jpg)
I was really tired of the two-button indicator system so I have been planning for a long time to replace it with a three-way switch as on normal motorcycles.
I could not find any controls that had the three-way switch, a horn switch and a push button light switch but nothing more. All the switches I could find had several extra buttons I did not need with the M-unit system.
I recently bought a 3D printer, so why not just print a new switch housing to use the moto gadget switches in?
(https://i.imgur.com/1Oqvsfw.jpg)
The housing is designed in Fusion360 and printed up using PETG plastic.
(https://i.imgur.com/IQuXMlf.jpg)
The housing was sanded and painted with acrylic spray paint.
(https://i.imgur.com/XvOra99.jpg)
To get everything fitted I needed to do a bit of rewiring in the head light and used the chance to clean up on some of the slightly sketchy wiring I had done earlier. Now all connections are done with deutch DTM connectors and all wires are neatly wrapped in shrink wrap. Didn’t get a picture of it.
I also made a set of stainless-steel handlebar weights as I couldn’t find anyone I liked. And this was also almost free
(https://imgur.com/dksRqpw.jpg)
That is, it for this time, but I hope to have time to do some engine work or fabricating my airbox during the winter. There is also a new front fork from a Ducati Multistrada in the works as well as a 1037cc cylinder kit. More to come but the wait will be long
-
I wouldn't have ground down the weld beads, as I can only occasionally get a random 10-20mm of even bead, and I would have been proud to show them off. :grin:
Nice job!
-
I wouldn't have ground down the weld beads, as I can only occasionally get a random 10-20mm of even bead, and I would have been proud to show them off. :grin:
Nice job!
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the comment, thrust me I pondered about to grind or not to grind for a long time. It was only two of the top side welds that was pretty consistent. So in the end I decided it would look better with the welds ground down. I will practice aluminium welding a bit more before making the airbox, hopefully the welds are so nice that I can be proud to show them off :grin: