Author Topic: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild  (Read 58108 times)

Offline Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2016, 04:19:57 AM »
So, finally I am on my way back to Denmark and my Guzzi project.

I have made up a new wiring diagram with all my motogadget stuff included. A little more detailed than the one Moto gadget post themselves. Although I did steal most of their symbols.


This is my wiring diagram. The Moto gadget m-unit.v2 takes care of all fusing and controls. That means that all lightning and switching is done within the m-unit. It controls headlight Hi/Lo, brake light, indicators, starting, horn and everything else that is needed. It is not affected by a change in indicator wattage, so you can mount any indicators you like and it will still blink at the same pace. Pretty clever. Also from the handle bar the 5 button set up uses 4 buttons to control indication left/right, horn and lights. To start and stop the bike you press two buttons simultaneously. From the handlebar buttons the wiring goes to a small unit called an m-button, this is not an actual button but a small device to changes the input from the buttons to a bus-signal (similar to can-bus). The m-button then sends the signal to the m-unit only using one wire so wiring is simplified from the headlight to the frame.
The five buttons on the handle bar is all switched to ground so they only require one wire each. So three wires from left and four wires from  right handle bar. The three buttons on the left control; turn left indication, light and horn. Indicator button and horn will face the rider and lights button will be where your hi flash button usually is.
On right side of the handle bar there will only be two buttons and the brake light switch. The two buttons will be turn right and a button for switching between modes on the Chrono Classic tachometer.



The ChronoClassic tachometer is also from Motogadget and is a combined instrument that houses all the instrumentation for the bike.
It has a analoge tachometer and digital speedometer. It can also show mileage, oil temp and pressure, air temp, all indication lamps and alarm lamps. Plus a bunch of other fancy stuff.
My chronoclassic has a black bezel but I might polish it up. I haven't decided yet, I will see how it looks when it is mounted on the bike.


Other jobs remaining to finish the bike is to weld/braze a new bung for the fuel cap and fix the small hole in the gas tank and get it painted, finish the battery box, make washers for the tank rubbers and shockabsorbers and a bunch of other small jobs like making new throttle and choke cables.

I will make it to Denmark tomorrow so I will post some more updates during this week.

- Ulrik

 
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline mgmark

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2016, 10:18:43 AM »
Thanks for all the approvals appreciate it!  :laugh:

I don't have so much more to show you as I didn't take that many pictures. I do have a bit more things.

On the original custom (can you even say that?) the rear wheel spacer was not really working really well so I had to make a new one. I made a nice new one only to find out that there had been an extra spacer washer in between on the old one. So my nice new spacer was 5mm too short.. Bugger, had to make another one with the correct height. Don't have any pictures of it unfortunately.

Ulrik

I really like your build so far. Excellent work! I ran into the same problem as you with the "tall neck" frame. It is difficult to get the look of the earlier bikes with the upper triple clamp so high.
A note on your rear axle spacer; make sure the inner face where it goes against the bearing is small enough to press only against the inner race, the same as that 5mm spacer you found does.
Also a question, how wide it that rear rim, and what size tire fit into your twin shock swingarm?

Mark
1984 LeMans > 1985 LeMans + 1978 LeMans > 1989 Lemans > 20 years later, 1985 Lemans > 1980 SP1000
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2016, 11:41:41 AM »
Missed this the first time around.  Nice work and good write-up!  I like it when someone throws away the book and builds from instinct.

What happened to those awful looking head pipes? 

Offline Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2016, 03:41:11 AM »
I really like your build so far. Excellent work! I ran into the same problem as you with the "tall neck" frame. It is difficult to get the look of the earlier bikes with the upper triple clamp so high.
A note on your rear axle spacer; make sure the inner face where it goes against the bearing is small enough to press only against the inner race, the same as that 5mm spacer you found does.
Also a question, how wide it that rear rim, and what size tire fit into your twin shock swingarm?

Mark

Yeah, It is quite difficult to get the nice flowing lines that you can with the earlier bikes, but I just have to live with it. A nice trade is that i can get a less aggressive riding position while still retaining the clip-ons.

On the rear axle spacer, I did machine it so it only touches on the inner bearing it is also stepped so the wheel axle clamps the spacer to the inner bearing.

The rim is 4.25"x17" and is currently wrapped in a 160/60R17 Michelin, this is a very very snug fit, so I have bought a 150/60R17 bridgestone S21 to replace it. I had to replace the front tire anyway so I opted to get two of the same make and model. So now I have S21 front and rear. Oh, and you will have to nudge the swing arm to make the wider tire fit. I don't know how much is necessary with the 150.

Missed this the first time around.  Nice work and good write-up!  I like it when someone throws away the book and builds from instinct.

What happened to those awful looking head pipes? 
 

Thanks rodekyll,

I'm just trying to build my dream guzzi, we will have to see how it will ride when I finish it :grin:

The awful head pipes ended up in my pile of random spare parts. I might be able to use the tube for something else so I keep them around. Pretty sure they have seen their last as guzzi head pipes though :grin:

:edited to correct tire model
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 05:41:34 AM by Rick4003 »
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2016, 03:41:11 AM »

Online Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2016, 11:27:40 AM »
Somehow, I seem to have missed this one, too. Attaboy, Rick!
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline charlie b

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2016, 11:38:30 AM »
The rim is 4.25"x17" and is currently rapped in a 160/60R17 Michelin, this is a very very snug fit, so I have bought a 150/60R17 brigdestone S20 to replace it. I had to replace the front tire anyway so I opted to get two of the same maker and model. So now I have S20 front and rear. Oh, and you will have to nudge the swing arm to make the wider tire fit. I don't know how much is necessary with the 150.

I am surprised they fit.  The 130/90-16 tires on my T5 rub the swingarm.  How do you 'nudge' it?
1984 850 T5 (sold)
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twowings

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2016, 01:42:00 PM »
If that bike is 'ruined', I can't wait to see 'beautified'! Nice!!

Offline Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2016, 02:11:12 PM »
The 'nudging' (I'm not sure this is even a term.) is done by cutting a bit out of the swingarm where there is already a depression on the T5 swingarm . You then weld a new piece in again that sits as close to the driveshaft as you can get it without it touching. It is a bit difficult to see on the picture as it is black on black. But you get an idea of how close it is.

On this one it was already done when I got it and they have actually turned the drive shaft down to a smaller diameter. I am not so fond of this solution as it takes a lot of the strength out of the driveshaft.  I have a second swingarm that I might modify so I will be able to run a standard size drive shaft.


A wider spacer is also used between the wheel and the rear drive. This moves the tire more to the left seen from the rear of the bike. It also moves the wheels drive outside 'spline' out so you have to either measure to make sure that it is still in full contact with the rear drives inside 'spline' or it would be possible to use machinist dye to check the contact. I haven't had a chance to check mine with machinist dye, but it measured out ok. I still would like to be able to get it closer to the original position, this is also one of the reasons to move to a 150 tire.

The tire center is also a little bit of the center line of the frame, so I will try to see if I can correct this so it will be on the frame center line. How much this offset actually affects handling I am not sure. According to a recent thread on this board BMW had moved their front tire 5mm out of centerline to be able to fit a ABS ring. If this was the actual reason and BMW saw this as a viable option, then I am tempted to go ahead with the small wheel offset and see how the bike actually handles on the road.

Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2016, 04:15:51 PM »
The 'nudging' (I'm not sure this is even a term.)

Back home it'd have been "noodgin' "

And the carnage continues...

Love the work!


Todd.
Todd
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2016, 04:45:26 PM »
When I encounter a tire that's too wide for the swing arm even though the profile says it will fit, I will offset my rear wheel by 5mm using a shim I carry for that purpose.  No drama as a result.  It's been pointed out to me that racers do this routinely to get clearance on their overwide rear tires, and that some frames have the offset built in.  If it works at the speeds they go, it should handle my plodding pace. 

Offline mgmark

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2016, 04:53:46 PM »
When I encounter a tire that's too wide for the swing arm even though the profile says it will fit, I will offset my rear wheel by 5mm using a shim I carry for that purpose.  No drama as a result.  It's been pointed out to me that racers do this routinely to get clearance on their overwide rear tires, and that some frames have the offset built in.  If it works at the speeds they go, it should handle my plodding pace.

My '85 Lemans has a stock 3" rear wheel, and a 130/80-18 tire clears the stock swingarm. I figured enough adjustment and modification could be found to go up a size on the tire width.
This is handy to know. I was wondering if some of the offset can be made up by adjusting the swingarm pivots to move the swingarm to the right. I imagine there might be driveshaft/internal swingarm clearance problems pretty quick. Probably not much is available but every few mm adds up.

Mark
1984 LeMans > 1985 LeMans + 1978 LeMans > 1989 Lemans > 20 years later, 1985 Lemans > 1980 SP1000
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Offline RANDM

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2016, 05:27:02 PM »
Hi Rick,
Like your work, I'd be a little cautious about the "offset"
thing - as I remember it no real conclusion was reached
on the reason for being or the affect on handling.
I definately wouldn't try it just because BMW have used it
as a "Bodge" type solution - there's a goodly amount of
Dodgy engineering on my 1150 - not something to aspire
too.
I have a mate who works on and races Classics and while
there is plenty of "strange" engineering  to make things fit
the wheels are always "Inline" with each other. We had a
chat about this and it just doesn't make sense.
Think about this - we know it's important to have the wheels
inline with each other, that's why we have chain adjustment
marks and don't even trust them and stringline the wheels to
make sure of it. We know that if the wheels aren't inline and
parallel the bike crabs down the road affecting handling and
feel for cornering. Having the wheels "offset" creates exactly
that situation via a different route.
You may "get away" with a slight inaccuracy but it would still
affect it and be less than ideal - it's just a matter of degree or
how much it's affected.

The M-Unit looks very interesting - thanks for the run down
on that.

Maurie.

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2016, 05:42:29 PM »
Hi Rick,
Like your work, I'd be a little cautious about the "offset"
thing - as I remember it no real conclusion was reached
on the reason for being or the affect on handling.
I definately wouldn't try it just because BMW have used it
as a "Bodge" type solution - there's a goodly amount of
Dodgy engineering on my 1150 - not something to aspire
too.
I have a mate who works on and races Classics and while
there is plenty of "strange" engineering  to make things fit
the wheels are always "Inline" with each other. We had a
chat about this and it just doesn't make sense.
Think about this - we know it's important to have the wheels
inline with each other, that's why we have chain adjustment
marks and don't even trust them and stringline the wheels to
make sure of it. We know that if the wheels aren't inline and
parallel the bike crabs down the road affecting handling and
feel for cornering. Having the wheels "offset" creates exactly
that situation via a different route.
You may "get away" with a slight inaccuracy but it would still
affect it and be less than ideal - it's just a matter of degree or
how much it's affected.

The M-Unit looks very interesting - thanks for the run down
on that.

Maurie.

I think there was no conclusion reached because the issue is insignificant.

The situation you describe with chain adjusters and stringlining is not the same as the 5mm offset.  You're talking about wheels that don't point in the same direction of travel as the frame.  We're talking about wheels that do point along the direction of the frame, but one may be slightly left of the other.  The argument is that 5mm (1/4-inch) offset over a 5.5" tire isn't significant and is routinely used to compensate for a wide variety of real and imaginary problems.

My '85 Lemans has a stock 3" rear wheel, and a 130/80-18 tire clears the stock swingarm. I figured enough adjustment and modification could be found to go up a size on the tire width.
This is handy to know. I was wondering if some of the offset can be made up by adjusting the swingarm pivots to move the swingarm to the right. I imagine there might be driveshaft/internal swingarm clearance problems pretty quick. Probably not much is available but every few mm adds up.

Mark

No, you can't move the swing arm left or right to compensate.  The critical alignment is the forward u-joint axis relative to the transmission output shaft.  The drive line needs to be on the same axis as the transmission output shaft or you bind the splines/sideload the bearings/invoke the demons of the apocalypse.  Too much and you bind the u-joints.  That's why we get fussy and follow a procedure for swing arm alignment when we install it.

Offline RANDM

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2016, 08:24:25 PM »
The situation you describe with chain adjusters and stringlining is not the same as the 5mm offset.  You're talking about wheels that don't point in the same direction of travel as the frame.  We're talking about wheels that do point along the direction of the frame, but one may be slightly left of the other.  The argument is that 5mm (1/4-inch) offset over a 5.5" tire isn't significant and is routinely used to compensate for a wide variety of real and imaginary problems.

I do understand the situation is different RK but the result
is the same.

On a chain drive bike if the rear tire isn't inline with the
front then, when in motion, the back will step out to one side
until both tires are running parallel to each other but not in
the same track. There is a difference in that the frame will
be at a slight angle and the steering slightly off centre as
well on the misaligned chain bike while on the "offset" bike
the frame and steering wouldn't be affected - but the result l
is the same > the tires end up running parallel but not in the
same track and that affects handling and feel, it would drop
over on one side easily but you'd really have to drag it over
on the other side if the diff is too much.

A small amount might not make a significant difference, but
it will make A difference. Wether that matters to a particular
person or not is for them to decide - but the affect is there.

Maurie.

Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2016, 09:03:16 PM »
My 2c

On my racebike with 3 sets of wheels I had different offsets on each back one, std for inters  slightly wider rim for wets and wider yet for slicks, I could not feel difference turning L or R
Move on 25 years, recently fitted 4,25 rim and 150/70 tyre to the ol dunger
The difference from radial PR3 to bias Avon RR astounding in "feel" but can't feel offset difference side to side, camber / traffic affect me more
Mileage alone justifies the rim, I got 13000Km (>8000 miles) from that tyre
PR4 going on today, hope to get the 20% more Michy claim

Oh and first time I've worn out sides of a tyre before centre on a road bike, ever, modern dual compound tyres well worth the offset to me

Easy offset is to make new spacer inside drive box or simply pit top hat spacer over original

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2016, 10:03:07 PM »
Like I said at the outset -- there was no conclusion because the effect of a 5mm offset is insignificant.  Something on the level of "can a thousand angles dance on the head of a pin or only 900?"  It doesn't matter because other than as a debate exercise, it doesn't matter.  So given the choice of using my 5mm shim and riding off with a new tire or pissing myself over the 5mm offset and waiting in town till a substitute tire arrives, I'll be keeping my depends dry.

Offline RANDM

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2016, 10:12:34 PM »
Well - I don't know RK's background, but know he's bin around
the block a few times, I know you know your shit Martin, and
I know I'm not an expert so I'll stand corrected.
I'm probably just being anal and over-imagining how much of
an affect there is.
 :thumb:

Maurie.

Offline Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2016, 12:08:57 AM »
When I encounter a tire that's too wide for the swing arm even though the profile says it will fit, I will offset my rear wheel by 5mm using a shim I carry for that purpose.  No drama as a result.  It's been pointed out to me that racers do this routinely to get clearance on their overwide rear tires, and that some frames have the offset built in.  If it works at the speeds they go, it should handle my plodding pace.

As Rodekyll writes, if it works for the racers I'm pretty sure it will work for me too, I will see what I can do to lessen the offset, but I'm not sure I can get completely in line. I will see if there is any noticeable effect when I ride it. I'm pretty sure the main effect of the whole thing is a huge grin from ear to ear :grin:  :bike-037:
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline Tobit

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2016, 08:37:21 AM »




IMHO this is how the BB square fin is best displayed.  No lower rails and an under the sump collector, rocker covers blasted bare to match the engine & trans.  Massive.

 :thumb:

Tobit
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Offline Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2016, 02:04:17 AM »
So have had a bit of time to work on the Guzzi, good news are that it is mostly complete now with only a few small jobs missing.

Again I haven't been that good at taking pictures, but most of the work have been to sort out the wiring.


I changed out the old worn VHF 30 dellortos with new PHF 36 dellortos with velocity stacks. For now I haven't put a filter on them but am planning on filter socks if I have to go far. If anybody have jetting suggestions for a small valve 850 I would love to hear them.
The jetting now is:
130 Main jet,
50 Idle jet,
k18 needle. middle height of the needle.
Haven't checked float height or atomizer/needle jet.

For the throttle twist grip I have a domino dual pull grip so I have a single cable to each carb and no spiltter. I made new cables to fit.
I haven't decided where to put the choke lever yet, so haven't made any cables for those. I think I'll get the flip choke type that sits on the carb itself so I don't have to make any more cables.



I welded two small brackets to the underside of the tank to raise it up a little bit so it blends in better with the seat. I also moved the seat a little bit backwards so it fits better.

To be able to fit the new filler cap on the tank I had to machine up a new bung to weld to the tank.



Finished bung

welded in the tank. Could only weld five millimeter at the time or the moisture trapped between the layers would cause the weld to blow up and make a hole in the weld. I most have resharpened my electrode 30 times or so! But it got done and I'm sure the weld is gas tight :grin:


Following Jims 750s adventures inspired me to invest in a powder coating gun :grin: have to say that it is pretty damn amazing to be able to finish a bracket or a part and mount it to the bike fully coated 20mins later. A huge time saver and the finish is very good!


First item to get coated! my new ignition lock bracket.


Part finished and ready to be mounted to the bike! :grin: 20 mins later! I still can't get over it! way too cool! :grin: And it is really really easy! Did I tell you it was fast? :grin:


finished at fitted on the bike.


Made up a bracket to fit the instrument. It wasn't the plan to fit it like this, the bracket was made to be mounted upside down so the instrument was flush with the top triple tree.
I had bought and extra top triple tree to be able to clean it up and remove all unwanted mounting lugs.Unfortunately the extra triple tree warped so much when I welded up the holes left by the clean up that it was impossible to mount it. So bummer, didn't get the cleaned up look I was going for. Fortunately The bracket I had made would fit the original top triple tree/yoke if I flipped it upside down. So that's what I ended up doing. Doesn't look too bad I think.


Got the buttons mounted and the wires pulled for them. Moto gadget states that the buttons should be able to run ground thru the handlebars and therefore eliminate the need for ground wires. This turned out not to work in the end, so I had to run some ground wires down to the headlight. They only run signals so they don't require a large gauge wire.

 
Wiring is mostly finished. Only need to pull one more cable for the oil pressure switch.
I mounted a regulator/rectifier from Elektronik Sachse. It combines the regulator and retifier in one package, have the same mounting dimensions as the old bosch unit and you can adjust the charging voltage on it. Adjusting the voltage is needed to charge the lithium battery I have mounted. The charging voltage must be between 14 and 15 volts to be able to recharge it fully.


New bracket for the front mudguard.


Final assembly with the new shocks and shock washers. Lafranconi exhausts fitted.















Next job is to get the tank painted and coated inside with tank sealer to protect against rust. And then it only needs an oil change on the full driveline and then I should be good to go! :grin:

I did try and start it up, and it did start! Boy it makes a nice sound! :grin: No video sorry.

There is a few more jobs that needs to be done to finish it completely:
Bracket for speedometer sensor
Change front brakelines, fill and bleed brake systems.
Make washers for the tank rubbers.
Jetting of the carbs to make it run right.
Mounting of Dyna III.

-Ulrik
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 02:16:19 AM by Rick4003 »
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

canuck750

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2016, 08:22:25 AM »
Really, really nice work!

I especially like the lines of the seat / tank and how the exhaust lines follow the plot. The red tips of the exhaust are just enough bling.

Your workmanship is top notch.

Cheers

Jim

Offline Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2016, 03:41:46 AM »
Thanks Jim :grin:

I was considering to fit another seat, but I have decided to keep this one as I agree with you that the seat compliment the tank nicely.

I have yet to fit the breather hose for the gear box. How is this normally routed? 

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2016, 07:22:46 AM »
I don't know if it drowned in the last long post, but if anyone have suggestions to jetting on a small valve 850 with 36mm phf carbs I would very much like to hear them :grin:

Also suggestions for routing of breather hoses for the gearbox would be appreciated. If I understood it correctly they need to go up a fair bit before going down again. Is this correct?

Thanks.
-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline Huzo

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2016, 06:48:54 PM »
Hi Guys, and girls if we have any  :grin:

I have been in the progress of ruining a perfectly almost running T5 and build it into my dream bike, it won't be anything remotely like a T5 as the only parts that are carried over is the engine, gearbox, frame and rear swing arm. All other parts comes from other Guzzis or made for the bike.

I originally bought a caf�d T5 as it looked absolutely amazing. I knew when I bought it that it would be nearly impossible getting registered and road legal as it stood.


This is the bike as I bought it. Chopped frame, removed lower frame rails, converted to mono shock, USD fork, 17" wheels, too modified to have a chance to get it MOT'ed in Denmark.

The plan was to find a new unmolested frame and transfer all the good parts to that and get some good twin shocks to compliment the fork. After searching for a frame a while I found one from a 1978 T3 with German papers. The guy selling it wanted 700$ for the bare frame. Bearing in mind that with the German frame I still had to get the finished bike thru the Danish MOT system and get a value estimate which they use for determining how much you have to pay in "Registreingsafgift" (Registration tax) to legally use it on Danish roads I decided that the 700$ was way more than what I wanted to pay. (The estimates vary wildly and would be expected to be around 1000$ or more.)

So no luck finding a frame at first :undecided:
Sometime later I found a cheap 850T5 that looked pretty unloved but was registered in Denmark. So I made an even cheaper offer and the seller agreed to the deal.


This is the bike I picked up in dire need for some TLC.
While the bike looks okay on the pictures it was running very rough and needed to have new tires and a bunch of other work to get it thru the MOT. First plan was to change the front tire and get the bike running well enough to get the MOT. But after several tries to get it running smoothly I ran out of time and out of patience. The wiring loom was completely botched by the previous owner and would need some serious work to get sorted out. (Every time I fixed something on it something else broke or stopped working�)
I ditched the idea of getting the bike road worthy in the state it was in and put it away as I had run out of time.
I work in the cement business and am working aboard so I can only work on the bike in my spare time. Off to work I was�  :sad:

Fast forward to next vacation:
Started taking both bikes apart.

Stripped both bikes to bare frames and removed some of the unneeded brackets from the green bikes frame, added some new brackets for mounting points for seat and electric box.
Frame just after being picked up from the sandblaster:

End of vacation�
A small mistake I made was that I didn't know that Guzzi changed the Tonti frame to the tall headstock in between 1984 and 1985.

So I have one of each... Which means that the USD fork could not be used as it was not possible to modify it to fit on the frame with the tall headstock.

I found the solution in a guy who sold a brand new 45mm Marzocchi fork for the tall head stock. I don't actually know which exact model it comes from. I'm guessing a Cali aluminium or a Cali Sport.
Of course the spacers and wheel axle didn't fit from the old USD fork, so I had to turn new spacers and modify an old Guzzi rear axle to get everything to fit together.

Front wheel finally on the fork.
On to the build finally:
I haven't been very good at taking pictures of the progress with putting the bike together again but here are rest of the pictures up to the point where I am now.
 

Showing the three new brackets to mount seat and electronic box.


New timing cover gets sodablasted to match the rest of the engine.


First trial fit of tank and seat.




Motogadget M-unit v.2 and finished electrics box.


Vroom Vroom  :bike-037:

End of Christmas holidays. back to work.

This is as far as I got this time. I still have a lot of work on the wiring and I need to get a new regulator/rectifier plus paint and all the finishing touches. Front and rear fenders and so on. I haven't really decided if I want to use the seat or not yet.


I have a ton of questions I will need some of you good folks to give your opinion on and are looking forward to get the bike on the road.
English is not my mother tongue so forgive me if there is some grammatical errors or misspellings, I try my best  :laugh:

I welcome all the suggestions, opinions and ideas you might have that would improve my project. Even if you don't like it  :grin:

Let the lynching begin!  :grin:  :whip2:
I've seen worse mate, a bloody lot worse..... It's got a nice stance to it, looks solid and "stout", sorta tough, well done.  Huzo.

Offline Huzo

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2016, 07:03:31 PM »
Also, what soda blasting apparatus did you use and were you happy with the results ?

Offline Huzo

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2016, 07:21:18 PM »
The 'nudging' (I'm not sure this is even a term.) is done by cutting a bit out of the swingarm where there is already a depression on the T5 swingarm . You then weld a new piece in again that sits as close to the driveshaft as you can get it without it touching. It is a bit difficult to see on the picture as it is black on black. But you get an idea of how close it is.

On this one it was already done when I got it and they have actually turned the drive shaft down to a smaller diameter. I am not so fond of this solution as it takes a lot of the strength out of the driveshaft.  I have a second swingarm that I might modify so I will be able to run a standard size drive shaft.


A wider spacer is also used between the wheel and the rear drive. This moves the tire more to the left seen from the rear of the bike. It also moves the wheels drive outside 'spline' out so you have to either measure to make sure that it is still in full contact with the rear drives inside 'spline' or it would be possible to use machinist dye to check the contact. I haven't had a chance to check mine with machinist dye, but it measured out ok. I still would like to be able to get it closer to the original position, this is also one of the reasons to move to a 150 tire.

The tire center is also a little bit of the center line of the frame, so I will try to see if I can correct this so it will be on the frame center line. How much this offset actually affects handling I am not sure. According to a recent thread on this board BMW had moved their front tire 5mm out of centerline to be able to fit a ABS ring. If this was the actual reason and BMW saw this as a viable option, then I am tempted to go ahead with the small wheel offset and see how the bike actually handles on the road.
Yeah BMW do specify an offset as has been discussed interminably here, but no one (including me) has really found out why without a lot of possibles and probables, so just go for it 'cos your instincts have been ok so far. Huzo.

Offline johnr

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2016, 07:47:37 PM »
FWIW, I don't think anyone can "ruin" a T5.  But, I may be biased since I turned mine into a touring rat.  I wish I was in Europe and I'd take that USD fork off your hands :)

Why do you have to be in Europe to do that Charlie? We have this long time service which works great! It's called "shipping".
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 07:48:14 PM by johnr »
New Zealand
2002 Ev tourer (Stalled again...)

Offline johnr

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2016, 08:05:04 PM »
I sure do like your returning some of the period look to it. Getting rid of the awful downward streaking exhaust, the USD forks and getting back to dual shocks are great aesthetic improvements even if the previous might have had some advantages.

Todd.

It's odd isn't it Todd. In the normal course of events I'd agree totally with what you have said above. But in this particular instance I rather like the aesthetic of the 'penstock pipes'

They seem to impart a slightly aggressive suggestion of steam-punk to the bike.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 08:06:32 PM by johnr »
New Zealand
2002 Ev tourer (Stalled again...)

Offline Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2016, 09:06:54 AM »
Also, what soda blasting apparatus did you use and were you happy with the results ?

I use this gun:
http://www.jwlaircontrol.com/sodablaster.asp?id=107785

It removes paint and dirt quite efficiently but doesn't remove rust or coarse corrosion very well.

I have used it to clean up carburettors and this it does really well, the carbs looks much much better after. It is just very important to clean the parts thoroughly with water after blasting to remove any soda residue.

I am happy with it, but it can't really take over from a glass blasting cabinet.
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #59 on: May 31, 2016, 12:24:39 AM »
I decided to rename the thread as the previous one didn't really explain anything about what the thread is really about :grin:

It's odd isn't it Todd. In the normal course of events I'd agree totally with what you have said above. But in this particular instance I rather like the aesthetic of the 'penstock pipes'

They seem to impart a slightly aggressive suggestion of steam-punk to the bike.

I believe the 'penstock pipes' could have been made to work, but the build quality and execution of flanges and so on was not very impressive. The flanges was leaking so much one the previous tried to fix it with glass cord, which didn't work :grin:

It did add to the rough look the original bike had, but wasn't the look I was after, so it got binned.

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

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