Author Topic: This is bad (maybe)..  (Read 7635 times)

twowings

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This is bad (maybe)..
« on: March 23, 2016, 06:07:02 PM »
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 11:45:52 AM by twowings »

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2016, 06:13:34 PM »
Not a surprise.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Offline rodekyll

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2016, 06:18:18 PM »
Wrong villain.  It's the riders out there saving lives that need to hear from you.  Oh, wait . . . .  they can't hear ANYTHING.  Hence the proposal from the EPA.

oldbike54

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 06:22:00 PM »
 Before we get all worked up , the bill is aimed more at all of the "competition" vehicles that are used primarily on the street . Personally I am tired of the noisy cars and motorbikes running the streets here in Muskogee running "for off road use only" exhaust systems , or no muffling at all . We did this to ourselves folks .

 Dusty

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 06:22:00 PM »

Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 07:00:24 PM »
Before we get all worked up , the bill is aimed more at all of the "competition" vehicles that are used primarily on the street . Personally I am tired of the noisy cars and motorbikes running the streets here in Muskogee running "for off road use only" exhaust systems , or no muffling at all . We did this to ourselves folks .

 Dusty

YEAH!!!   And get off my friggin' lawn too!!! :whip2:
ебать Россию!   Not anti social-pro solitude

Offline LowRyter

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 07:33:01 PM »
the AMA sent me a scare e-mail telling me that riders won't be able to modify bikes to run on a track. 

I am about to put the AMA into my junk mail along with other crap.

OKay Dusty, kill me.   
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 07:34:39 PM by oldbike54 »
John L 
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 07:36:34 PM »
what?  you killed me and I didn't even know it


assassin 
John L 
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Offline lucian

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2016, 08:08:33 PM »
You can take my termi from my cold dead hand.  :angry:

HardAspie

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2016, 08:25:14 PM »
When will there be sufficient regulations and laws?

oldbike54

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2016, 08:39:16 PM »
Not even in the same universe.


 And how do you know this all knowing all seeing omnipotent one ???

  Dusty

canuguzzi

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2016, 08:51:51 PM »


 And how do you know this all knowing all seeing omnipotent one ???

  Dusty

You're the one making the claims, not me, I'm just pointing out a fact.

oldbike54

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2016, 08:59:05 PM »
You're the one making the claims, not me, I'm just pointing out a fact.

 So you have some secret pipeline to facts ?

 Dusty

Offline trippah

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2016, 09:07:02 PM »
Gentlemen,. the major divide is probably along age lines, with older riders not enjoying loud vehicles while young un think they are wonderful.  There are real physiological reasons for this, loud noise hurts ears with recruitment (usually over 40's) and a some war veterans, while the thrill of heart pounding blood pressure increasing loud noise is music to the under thirty crowd.  Being 70, you know where I would vote. :grin:

canuguzzi

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2016, 09:19:52 PM »
A national regulation isn't needed. Most cities and towns already have noise ordinances/laws. If the sound from loud exhausts bothers you, get the laws already on the books enforced.

Another regulation isn't needed. There are people driving around with sound systems louder than all but the loudest exhausts. Some of the music being played sounds like noise too.

Offline LowRyter

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2016, 09:24:25 PM »
Gentlemen,. the major divide is probably along age lines, with older riders not enjoying loud vehicles while young un think they are wonderful.  There are real physiological reasons for this, loud noise hurts ears with recruitment (usually over 40's) and a some war veterans, while the thrill of heart pounding blood pressure increasing loud noise is music to the under thirty crowd.  Being 70, you know where I would vote. :grin:

WHHHHAAATTTTTTTT  ???????????
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canuguzzi

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2016, 09:30:15 PM »
DID YOU HEAR THAT :bike-037:?

Offline rodekyll

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2016, 09:36:01 PM »
You can take my termi from my cold dead hand.  :angry:

Here's the guy you want to be talking to.

Me, I like the art of compromise.  My hydro has oem.  My Convert has BUBs.

A national regulation isn't needed. Most cities and towns already have noise ordinances/laws. If the sound from loud exhausts bothers you, get the laws already on the books enforced.

Another regulation isn't needed. There are people driving around with sound systems louder than all but the loudest exhausts. Some of the music being played sounds like noise too.

So you agree that "sound systems" and music in general also ought to be EPA controlled?   :thumb:  Unfortunately, this topic is about loud pipes.   :sad:

canuguzzi

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2016, 09:40:31 PM »
Nope, don't agree with that at all but by all means do continue with the mischaractarization .

Read the entire post. :rolleyes:

canuguzzi

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2016, 09:47:38 PM »
Aftermarket exhausts do not have to be loud. A new regulation isn't needed.

Regulations already exist the prohibit modifying exhausts nd fuel systems ifbthat cause them to operate outside of already in place regulations.

More regulations for exhaust systems are not needed.

Offline rodekyll

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2016, 10:51:33 PM »
Nope, don't agree with that at all but by all means do continue with the mischaractarization .

Read the entire post. :rolleyes:

I read it.  You were doing just fine until you tried to hide the issue behind some loud music.  Literally turning up the radio to make the exhaust leak go away.  I get so completely tired of political stuffed shirts using that rhetorical distraction to avoid uncomfortable questions that I just hate it when people use it in a grown-up discussion.  It's soooooo 4th grade.

[edit]

I see you restated yourself without the distractions.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 11:03:51 PM by rodekyll »

canuguzzi

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2016, 11:09:12 PM »
I never said nor implied that loud music of any nature needed to be regulated. On the contrary, I specifically said the proposed regulations on a national scale (EPA) were NOT needed.

The point was that there are already enough regulations to deal with noise coming from vehicles, more aren't needeI wasn't hiding anything, just pointing out that loud exhausts are already regulated but if it bothers you so much, go after loud music too, it makes about as much sense which is very little.

You're saying we need more regulations? Have at it.

Offline H-E-ROSS

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2016, 11:29:36 PM »
Are you sure this bill isn't addressing emissions and removed cats? Noise may not have anything to do with it!

Offline rodekyll

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2016, 11:58:12 PM »
The bill deals with highway-certified vehicles fitted with aftermarket exhaust systems.  Since emissions, noise, and fuel economy are all affected by aftermarket exhaust, they want to ban the use of such pipes on street-certified bikes when they are run on the street.  The linked article suggests that the language of the proposal could possibly affect a bike that was originally street legal but was converted to exclusive track or offroad use.

This is my problem with the distraction of equating the aftermarket exhaust with a sound system.  They don't compare.  The argument is nonsense.

oldbike54

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2016, 12:07:48 AM »
  That was my understanding of the bill , overall less noise pollution is simply a side effect .

 Dusty

Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2016, 12:08:56 AM »
There is already a law to stop a street bike owner from altering their original mufflers.  This article is talking about forcing race machines from having non-stock mufflers during race conditions.  In other words the race bikes would be as quiet as street bikes.  :rolleyes:

Offline rodekyll

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2016, 12:18:20 AM »
The article seems to be asking for clarification of language in the bill that could be interpreted as requiring street pipes on closed tracks.  Other sources I've read seem to indicate that this is not the intent of the bill, but a punitive judge could read it that way.  The intent of the bill seems to be to require a street-certified model to have its oem exhaust WHILE ON THE STREET.  That means you'd have to pull over in the pits and change cans before riding home.  We'll see their true intent when we see how the final language reads. 

I'd think this would be an opportunity for the industry to make those limited edition 'stock car donor' model variants.  You know -- the race brackets where you have to run street legal stuff so Mopar makes 300 copies of some 800hp hemi and sells a few for street use.  All those certified street-legal, trick parts then become legal for racing.

Offline lucian

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2016, 07:39:17 AM »
My griso is fitted with a termi exhaust with cat remaining. It is still quieter than a stock harley  but under this law would be illegal. The only fair resolution would be a legal standard set for emission and noise and have a sniff and decibel test at inspection. Not that I'd be for that . There is obviously a huge difference in sound and emissions between a 250 cc and an 1100 cc regardless of the exhaust system. These reg's  painted with a shop broom end up hurting non offenders always. And wait until  some d.e.p. wacko gets the idea that we all should have electric bikes. The 747's flying over our head every day by the thousands make more noise and pollution than bikes ever could so why don't they go after the real polluters? There are much bigger things they should be concerned about.

Offline vstevens

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2016, 08:16:13 AM »
The article alludes to, could possibly, may do this or that.  It's a bill, it's only a bill.  Not a law.  Notice the stock photo from Akropovic?

And some of the replies... like reading a textbook from "Fallacies 101" class.  Everything from straw man to blatant equivocation.  The sky is not falling.

And clean air?  I kind of like it.  Been to China lately? 

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2016, 09:25:58 AM »
It is still quieter than a stock harley 

What is a stock Harley (as related to exhaust)? I doubt there are many out there.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

canuguzzi

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Re: This is bad...
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2016, 09:57:25 AM »
Like many regulations of this nature, the proposed bill will not provide for the means to enforce it at the public level; it won't stop the individual from doing whatever.

It is illegal to modify your fuel and exhaust system to operate outside of EPA regs so when that guy who turns out for a track day loads up a new map, swaps his exhaust and then decides to ride around town like that, who stops him from doing so? No one. What does happen is that like many such wonderful ideas, the enforcement is much easier at the manufacturing level.

These types of regulations resulted in sealed carbs and so on. Do you like being able to plug into your ECU and load a new map? An easy way to stop you from even modding your exhaust is to make the ECU untouchable and program it to detect any change in the exhaust system and not adjust for it.

Alternatively, the exhaust becomes a one piece, no slip on so get out the hacksaw and welder.

Like many regs, the purpose is shrouded with good intent and by the time the burden is realized it is already done. We'll rely on what magazines and the "experts" tell us only to realize later on what was really going on.

As for the pollution in China, their novel approach is very interesting, near Bejing build a nuclear reactor to generate electricity and put more people on bicycles. There you have it, they managed to piss off and make environmental ists happy at the same time.

 

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