SB mania

[IceBlue]

These two girls look so similar, yet handles so very differently. (Targa and Lario)

750 Targa 1992  - just had a makeover this summer.


V65 Lario Red - assembled from parts picked up all over Europe.  Valve train modified - still holding up.


V65 Lario Silver - restoration. Parts hunted down all over Europe.  Valve train modified. Frame saved from the scrap yard in Holland.



In the works, a
V75/4 restoration - parts from all over Europe.
V35C - makeover
V35C upgrade/restoration - 750 mill ready to be installed.

Now all halted for the winter - too cold to work in the cuttage and outside 

Ciao

[Old Jock]

You keep at it Ice

I love your threads even though I'm a Big Block guy

Thanks for posting these mouth watering pics, the machines look absolutely terrific

John

[pete roper]

For any Aussies interested there is a Lario on the Bay of Fleas at the moment. $3,300 and no bids. I'd be sorely tempted if I hadn't already bought the 'Racer' but Jude would never speak to me again if I even thought about it! Looks like a clean one too.

Pete

[mauriceetjeannine]

Hello,

Beautiful bikes......

From a SB fan in Europe, regards

[azguzzirep]

Hey IB,

Nice bikes! Happy to see you still hanging around 😀.

Tom

P.S. how long ago was it you were in Phoenix?

[huub]

what is the verdict on the valve train modifications?
my lario reached 70.000 km before dropping a valve , anybody managed serious distances with the upgraded valve train?

[John A]

That's good porn, Ice

[Chuck in Indiana]

Need I say I like em? 
There's a nice Lario for sale in Oregon. Gotta have the secret handshake, though..

[SED]

Great pictures IceBlue!  I always appreciate your knowledge and experience with the small blocks.

[Lannis]

IceBlue, good to see your typeface again, seems like it's been a long while.  (The board or my ISP is blowed up at the moment and won't let me "See Members' Posts" this week).

Always good to have someone with your experience and enthusiasm in the SB niche within the MG niche!

Lannis

[Arizona Wayne]

Need I say I like em? 
There's a nice Lario for sale in Oregon. Gotta have the secret handshake, though..

Is it white ?  I may have ridden it then.  1 of the most fun rides I've ever had. 

[Bazil]

I saw that Lario on ebay Pete. Very tempted, but the grenade head thing is a concern. Engine hasn't been turned over, no history, low mileage but it's had a re-spray and mufflers replaced ? ( although admittedly, the finish was never good on the originals)

I look at the aussie Larios when they come up, trying to work out if it's my old one, which I had from new. Can't remember the mileage, probably 30,000 plus K when I got rid of it in 1990. No sign of it eating it's valves then. - maybe I was just lucky. It did come from the factory with a bent pushrod though ! Loved that bike (sighs wistfully...)

Nice work Ice - beautiful to see

[Chuck in Indiana]

Is it white ?  I may have ridden it then.  1 of the most fun rides I've ever had. 

No, it's red, euro turnsignals, nice looking original.

[sign216]

Good to see that the smallblocks still have a devoted following.

[Clancy]

For any Aussies interested there is a Lario on the Bay of Fleas at the moment. $3,300 and no bids. I'd be sorely tempted if I hadn't already bought the 'Racer' but Jude would never speak to me again if I even thought about it! Looks like a clean one too.

I'm watching that on Ebay.
I was thinking of asking you if you thought it'd be worth it.
The seller has now ended the auction - I'm sure there was still 3 or so days left.

[IceBlue]

You keep at it Ice

I love your threads even though I'm a Big Block guy

Thanks for posting these mouth watering pics, the machines look absolutely terrific

John

Thanks John! I'm still on the job market, so it's limited how many hours I can spend, but being patient I arrive at a result I can live with. I actually have favorites in the BB class as well, but having now 7 SB's my wife til cancel the mariage if I buy a BB    I've had my eyes on the 2002 aniversery Cal., leather bags and all which has been up for grabs here a couple of times, and an 1100 Sport, but these dreams will remain dreams for now. I like the new Eldorado too 

Crazy too about the new V7/III line

Ciao

[IceBlue]

Hello,

Beautiful bikes......

From a SB fan in Europe, regards

Thanks Maurice!! 

[IceBlue]

Hey IB,

Nice bikes! Happy to see you still hanging around 😀.

Tom

P.S. how long ago was it you were in Phoenix?

That's almost 6 years ago Tom - you (a very tall guy with a short name)    picked us up on a late flight at the airport, as the imigration in DC messed up our flight plan, by only having a few officers for several hundred passengers, and they could not care less. Never going via DC ever again. Great service in all other US airports.

Hope you are all well!

imgbb

Ciao

[IceBlue]

what is the verdict on the valve train modifications?
my lario reached 70.000 km before dropping a valve , anybody managed serious distances with the upgraded valve train?

The jury isn't out yet. I think Chuck did the most miles, on one version of the of the mod. It think after around 50.000 miles (80.000km) the cam shaft were done for. Can't quite remember his parts list for his mod., but I do not think he used Nevada springs and Yamaha clearance screws.

I only have around 15.000km on my version, which is the latest Lario factory cam shaft with 14mm lobes. Nevada progressive spings, also use in th V7 today. Custom valves with good stem caps. They weere done for too on Chucks Lario, if my memory serves me right. Yamaha clearance adjustment screw, which is plug an play. They have a larger contact surface than the Lario stock screws, which will prolong the life of the stem caps. The intake valves are customized to only weigh 25 grams, which will extend the RPM to the red line - 7.800rpm before valve float kicks in. I have by accident flipped it up to 9000rpm. It did not nick the valves, but I'll not recommend doing that, as all valves are in float which in turns also might drop the stem caps off the valve stem.

The optimal solution IMHO would be DLC coating of followers and the 14mm cam shaft. Nevada springs assemblies, and good custom valves with the intake at 25 gr. and the Yamaha clearance screws. Some has reverted to stock springs using the DLC coating. No jury here yet either, to my knowledge, so this is all still base on logic a faith.

I would only do between 50-80.000km on a set of valves, cam and followers on a Lario. The valve train design of the Lario was not Guzzi's biggest achievement, but the fun riding this legend makes it all up for its weakneses 

If you got 70.000km on a stock Lario without mods or repairs, your bike did VERY well! I assume it would be post late '86, as Guzzi then upgraded the mill with the 14mm cam etc.
The original stock valves were real bad quality as well, which added to the issue. Real issue was worn down cam lobes and followers, caused by the 2 VERY strong valve springs, which caused valve hammering, hence valve drop. Some very early, like after only a few thousind km. The cam shaft design was never meant for the two strong springs - the issue also was present on some ealy 2 valve/cyl mills, as Guzzi used  double spring, which gave the same issue, although not nearly as much as the 4 valve/cyl mills. Guzzi then recommended replacing all SB double springs with the single progressive spring, also introducing the 14 mm cams, and the early 2 valve SB's then lived longer. This is the solution I apply to the Lario, although the Lario was killed before the progressive spring upgrade was fully implemented on the production SB's. Only the 14mm cam shaft made it to the Lario in late '86 i believe. The springs remained the same very strong types to accomodate up to 9000rpm or more, which is beyond the red line.

Ciao

[IceBlue]

That's good porn, Ice

Thanks John! 

[IceBlue]

Need I say I like em? 
There's a nice Lario for sale in Oregon. Gotta have the secret handshake, though..

Thanks Chuck! 

[IceBlue]

Great pictures IceBlue!  I always appreciate your knowledge and experience with the small blocks.

Thanks man!
I'm always happy to assist a fellow guzzisti!

[IceBlue]

IceBlue, good to see your typeface again, seems like it's been a long while.  (The board or my ISP is blowed up at the moment and won't let me "See Members' Posts" this week).

Always good to have someone with your experience and enthusiasm in the SB niche within the MG niche!

Lannis

Good to see you are still around too Lannis! 
Seems like the SB are having a renaissance.
Guzzi sure it hammering out both numbers and new models, latest the V7/III, which is real good looking

[IceBlue]

Good to see that the smallblocks still have a devoted following.

I think it's growing - just look at the new models - seems like the SB's also are the best selling line of bikes from Guzzi, and has been for a while.

Seems like hard core BB folks are buying some too on occations

[Chuck in Indiana]

Just to clear the air, my Lario only went 5000 miles before wiping a cam lobe. I was using the Taiwan valves with (too soft) lash caps. I really don't know whether the failure was because of the chicken or the egg.  When I had a chance to put the Aero engine in it, I couldn't pass that up. I *like* the Lario..
2016-05-13_04-15-39 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Since this picture, I've added Tarozzi a fork brace.
2016-08-18_03-16-47 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
For anyone that is wondering, the forks are apparently the same as the 750S. Braces for them are a bolt on.

[kevdog3019]

Good to hear from you Ice!  Those are sweet looking rides. I agree with your assessment on issues.  It seems a culmination of several factors (some too strong and some too weak). If you take care of the weak links while bringing the stronger springs within reason, the hope is they work together in harmony. I can't vouch for this yet as a few k miles does not a test make. I will say the mods have made this Lario the most stable and flickable creature I've ever ridden. Power ain't bad either. Both aspects are equally separated from my stock Lario. Goes to show what a solid front end (lowered) will make this thing. I have the same T fork brace on my Marzzochi's.
I'm curious about the handling differences you mention Brian between the Targa/Lario?

[IceBlue]

Just to clear the air, my Lario only went 5000 miles before wiping a cam lobe. I was using the Taiwan valves with (too soft) lash caps. I really don't know whether the failure was because of the chicken or the egg.  When I had a chance to put the Aero engine in it, I couldn't pass that up. I *like* the Lario..
2016-05-13_04-15-39 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Since this picture, I've added Tarozzi a fork brace.
2016-08-18_03-16-47 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
For anyone that is wondering, the forks are apparently the same as the 750S. Braces for them are a bolt on.

Well I guess my memory tugged a zero too many in there Chuck   This means I have more miles on mine and still an intact valve train 
Your Lario is likely the only one with the 750/63Hp aero mill on the globe.
Looks sooo cool with the aero mill!
Still wondering why Guzzi shelved it 

[IceBlue]

Good to hear from you Ice!  Those are sweet looking rides. I agree with your assessment on issues.  It seems a culmination of several factors (some too strong and some too weak). If you take care of the weak links while bringing the stronger springs within reason, the hope is they work together in harmony. I can't vouch for this yet as a few k miles does not a test make. I will say the mods have made this Lario the most stable and flickable creature I've ever ridden. Power ain't bad either. Both aspects are equally separated from my stock Lario. Goes to show what a solid front end (lowered) will make this thing. I have the same T fork brace on my Marzzochi's.
I'm curious about the handling differences you mention Brian between the Targa/Lario?

Tanks Kev!
The Lario is highly flickable, and you can dance it into any curve. It's a bikers gocart 
The Targa has an 18" wheel base. This makes it a lot more stable at high speed, and relaxed on the freeway. Still flickable, but not close to the Lario, which is the fun bike to ride.
Going a 160 Kmh (100Mph) on the Lario pulls out some concentrated riding. Not so much on the Targa, that will go 180 Kmh and still feel rock solid.

I think that's my best disciption.

Ciao

[kevdog3019]

Makes perfect sense Brian between the two. I kept my 16's even though Ed tried talking me into 18's. For my riding type through back roads there's no question the 16's make for more fun. 80mph starts to feel real fast on this thing!
K

[Arizona Wayne]

That's almost 6 years ago Tom - you (a very tall guy with a short name)    picked us up on a late flight at the airport, as the imigration in DC messed up our flight plan, by only having a few officers for several hundred passengers, and they could not care less. Never going via DC ever again. Great service in all other US airports.
\



Since Tom got married and moved to Germany he's lost so much weight now you can hardly recognize him now when you meet him.