Enfield 750 at EICMA?

[Testarossa]

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2017/11/02/motorcycle-news/listen-new-royal-enfield-750-twin/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Motorcycle.com_weekly&utm_source=Motorcycle.com20171103

[Kev m]

Cool, with them luck... More choices are better.

[Perazzimx14]

I liked my C5 bullet. Great 2 lane back road bike.

[balvenie]

sounds Krisp

[Matteo]

If priced right could hurt Guzzi and Triumph.

[Kev m]

If BUILT right could hurt Guzzi and Triumph.

ALSO... See fixed above!

[Beowulf]

I don't think this any threat to guzzi or triumph. Royal enfield is poorly built in my experience. I have seen them have a lot of mechanical issues. Do you really think a motorcycle with poor quality control can measure up to an Italian built Guzzi? Call me what you will but i dont believe Royal enfield will ever measure up.

[LowRyter]

take the quiz. Pick the NEW 750 Enfield.

[helipic]

They look like a direct copy of Triumph Bonnie.

[Testarossa]

They look like a direct copy of Triumph Bonnie.

That's unfair. The original Enfield twin was introduced in 1947 (BSA bought Triumph in '51) and the Interceptor was 1960, I think, contemporaneous with the Bonnie (59) and Thunderbolt/Lightning (64). The Interceptor was a 700 (later 750) while the Triumph and BSA twins were 650s. The British Enfield factory closed in 1970 but by then the singles had been in production in India for 15 years.

[Arizona Wayne]

Is today April 1 ?

[Moto]

That's unfair. The original Enfield twin was introduced in 1947 (BSA bought Triumph in '51) and the Interceptor was 1960, I think, contemporaneous with the Bonnie (59) and Thunderbolt/Lightning (64). The Interceptor was a 700 (later 750) while the Triumph and BSA twins were 650s. The British Enfield factory closed in 1970 but by then the singles had been in production in India for 15 years.

Not so much unfair, as poorly stating the argument that it appears to derive from a Triumph design. All the classic Triumph twins evolved from the 1938 Speed Twin 5T, and looked very much like their ancestor right into the 1970's.  So, it wasn't a Bonneville per se, but similar predecessors in the Triumph line that the Enfield copied.

It's not unfair to say that all the classic British parallel twins followed Edward Turner's lead in the 1938 Triumph Speed Twin. (His design was a fairly big departure from an even earlier Triumph parallel twin.)

[rodekyll]

I don't think this any threat to guzzi or triumph. Royal enfield is poorly built in my experience. I have seen them have a lot of mechanical issues. Do you really think a motorcycle with poor quality control can measure up to an Italian built Guzzi? Call me what you will but i dont believe Royal enfield will ever measure up.

Guzzi quality control *IS* a thing of legend.  We discuss it all the time.   

[Beowulf]

Guzzi quality control may not be perfect and really what is? But spend some time looking up complaints against Royal enfield and i think you will see what i mean. The metalurgy on the Guzzi, research and components used are definitely better. Guzzi seem to have good longevity even if few issues need be sorted out. Im not saying a bad guzzi cant happen. Just my opinion. Spend your money as you like and have fun.

[rodekyll]

I don't know about Enfield QC, but I know Guzzi QC isn't the hallmark for comparison.  How do you say "sloppy" in Italian?

[Beowulf]

https://www.change.org/p/suffering-major-problems-with-royal-enfield-himalayan
This seems a common story even with other models.
Ive had a Yamaha, Kawasaki, Harley Davidson and now a Guzzi. Ive ridden suzuki and am by no means claiming to be an authority but from personal experience I found the Guzzi is very well made easy to maintain and work on and if theres a problem fix. The yamaha was also a well made bike. I cant say the same for the kawasaki. I honestly hated that thing.

[Beowulf]

Sloppy in Italian
Sciatto

[rodekyll]

https://www.change.org/p/suffering-major-problems-with-royal-enfield-himalayan
This seems a common story even with other models.
Ive had a Yamaha, Kawasaki, Harley Davidson and now a Guzzi. Ive ridden suzuki and am by no means claiming to be an authority but from personal experience I found the Guzzi is very well made easy to maintain and work on and if theres a problem fix. The yamaha was also a well made bike. I cant say the same for the kawasaki. I honestly hated that thing.

This is my take on Guzzi QC, and is not a poke at you, Beowolf.

While I agree that "Guzzi is very well made easy to maintain and work on and if theres a problem fix," none of that has to do with quality control, and pointing out other brands as also having problems doesn't excuse sciatto production.  It's like saying that if everyone else in Hollywood is drugging and molesting starlets, then it's acceptable to join in the orgy, because the movies are entertaining. 

The best made bike in the world is sciatto if they neglect to put in the thrust bearings and lube the couplers.  The best designed bike on the world is sciatto if hydraulic lifters, 4-valve heads, and oil pumps are tested to destruction by private owners in real time instead of during development.  It's sciatto to not proofread manuals to be sure they are understood accurately in the various languages, and they are really sciatto if years down the road the same production and documentation failures still exist.  Guzzi is guilty of all of this and have a long established pattern of sciatto.  They need to be compared to what's right, not the failures of other companies.

$0.02

[Mr Pootle]

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with Mandello’s quality control. The problem is that they make down to a price, putting on cheap suspension, and they’ve not got to grips with the fuelling issues that have resulted from emission regulations. There was a problem, probably caused by one poorly trained/supervised employee, and which affected a small number of V7s, but generally, if you buy a Guzzi it’ll not let you down.

[Kev m]

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with Mandello’s quality control. The problem is that they make down to a price, putting on cheap suspension, and they’ve not got to grips with the fuelling issues that have resulted from emission regulations. There was a problem, probably caused by one poorly trained/supervised employee, and which affected a small number of V7s, but generally, if you buy a Guzzi it’ll not let you down.

That answer completely ignores the hydro Cali, flat tappet 8V, and CARC dash issues.

[Rough Edge racing]

They look like a direct copy of Triumph Bonnie.

 If you mean the vintage Meriden Triumph 650/750, the vintage RE engine is a similar design but a very different look to the engine.....If you mean a modern Hinkley Triumph, yes, the new RE does resemble it....Just like all Japanese inline 4 engines have a similar look...

[Aaron D.]

Old Interceptors were a more advanced design vs a Triumph.

Quality as I earned it has meant conformity to design-Guzzi has often fallen down with the design of its valvetrains, so that is not really a QC issue. The thrust bearing thing however is.

Enfield will get better right quick, they make a LOT of motorcycles. I think they must have made more Enfields than the original Enfield by now. And the heritage is there too..

[Mr Pootle]

That answer completely ignores the hydro Cali, flat tappet 8V, and CARC dash issues.

Historic.

[molly]

They look like a direct copy of Triumph Bonnie.

Royal Enfield have recently opened a technology centre a stones throw from Triumph's Hinckley factory, might explain a few things.

https://royalenfield.com/uk/

[huub]

https://www.change.org/p/suffering-major-problems-with-royal-enfield-himalayan
This seems a common story even with other models.
Ive had a Yamaha, Kawasaki, Harley Davidson and now a Guzzi. Ive ridden suzuki and am by no means claiming to be an authority but from personal experience I found the Guzzi is very well made easy to maintain and work on and if theres a problem fix. The yamaha was also a well made bike. I cant say the same for the kawasaki. I honestly hated that thing.

you are not picking the best example , 0 persons have signed this petition :-)
i know persons who have over 100.000 miles on their enfields , without opening the engine.
a enfield will never be as perfect as a honda , but neither will a guzzi.
having said that , enfield keeps improving their game all the time , during the period guzzi is making smallblocks enfield have introduced three new bullet engines.

[molly]

It is  very difficult to compare Royal Enfield to Guzzi or any other manufacturer come to that. At the moment they only offer what can be best described as a classic throwback motorcycle. Until the 750 becomes a reality the present bikes are barely suitable for modern traffic conditions outside of Asia and can hardly keep up with normal traffic speeds. A decent 125cc Chinese import is probably a better bet for everyday use. But there is a market for them and my two nearest Guzzi dealers have switched  over to selling Enfields so it can't be all bad.

[Perazzimx14]

Royal Enfields are great little bikes. The problem is they are worth nowhere near MSRP. I ended up getting my dealer leftover 2012 C5 Bullet for less then $3,000 OTD when the MSRP was something like $6,500. At $3,000 dollars it was feasible. In fact I rode it for 4 months and 1,000 miles and had to take a $600 hit to sell it.

When I went to sell it the market was limited to very frugal Indian folks who though because a Royal Enfield could be bought in India for $1,000 the same should happen here. I heard the story in almost every email when they scoffed at my price.

The RE's are a niche bike in the States and they will always be a niche bike in the States. Most folks do not associate quality with Indian manufacture so that is only one of many uphill battles RE needs to win.

[Beowulf]

I understand where you are coming from rodekyll and as with many brands there is a passionate following. I really like the looks of a Royal enfield but i just read about people who have had a lot of problems. If one where cheap enough id probably give it a whirl just not depend on it for my daily. I rideevery day to work rain or shine averaging 60 miles. I dont use a car and have found my Guzzi absolutely awesome and fallen head over heels for brand. This certainly wont be my last one. But I confused QC with overall design and quality of materials  so i think i see where your coming from. I dont really wish to bash any brand. 

[Darren Williams]

That answer completely ignores the hydro Cali, flat tappet 8V, and CARC dash issues.

And don't forget the non-greased steering and swing arm bearings, the loose from the factory frame to engine bolts, along with the startus interuptus issue and the illogical fusing of NTX aux. lights. I won't mention the fuel filter.  The latter are things that should have been designed out of later models and the previous are poor assembly controls.

The Hydro Cali and flat tappet 8V situations are design and testing failures, where the CARC dash failures were most probably a vendor issue.

I have a 2007 BMW R1200GS, and I see it as similar to the (roller) Stelvio I had. Motor, frame and suspension were all real good, but the add on stuff is problematic and costly to fix. And BMW build quality (attention to detail) is far superior, IMHO.

[Rough Edge racing]

Old Interceptors were a more advanced design vs a Triumph.

 Both are 360 degree OHV twins...The RE was probably a more robust design and supposedly manufactured to a better standard......I have been inside an RE 750 engine and there's much of the same "quaint " British engineering as Triumphs