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General Category => Bike Builds, Rebuilds And Restorations Only => Topic started by: Chuck in Indiana on November 26, 2012, 05:56:48 PM

Title: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 26, 2012, 05:56:48 PM
*Note* I've inquiries about pictures on this thread. Google "Photobucket fix" and you will find an add on for Chrome and Firefox browsers. Add that to your browser, and all will be revealed. :)


I've caught up with my other project, and am starting a new Winter project. If anyone is interested, I'll add to this thread as it develops..
The story:
First, the cheapest bike you can buy is the best there is available. Someone else has already done the grunt work and spent the money. This one wasn't it.  ;D It was a pretty sorry looking thing, but I wanted a Lario, and it was available. Geeseman kindly offered to pick it up and bring it to the Nationals last summer. Here is the before picture.. (http://[img=https://photoruckus.s3.amazonaws.com/Lario%2F87GUZZILARIORF.jpg])
 
 I did a quicky going through it to make it reliable enough to take on our Western trip.. new rear shocks, brake pads, headlight relay, changed out the brake fluid, serviced, etc. and blasted off on a *great* trip, doing most of my "bucket list" roads.
[img=https://photoruckus.s3.amazonaws.com/Lario%2F87GUZZILARIORF.jpg]http://(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/PNWtrip120.jpg
It really wasn't running all that well.. good enough, but I knew there was something going on with the timing, so after coming home, I just let it sit until lately. Made up a degree wheel, and timed it.
[img width=600 height=800]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-12.jpg)
Now, we're talkin! Running very well indeed. It's obviously a keeper, so it's time to at least make it look presentable, and fix some little niggles.
 
First, I made a fitting to hook up to my leak down tester so I could find out basically what condition the engine is in.
A little lathe work, some silver soldering, and
[img=https://photoruckus.s3.amazonaws.com/Lario%2F005-9.jpg]http://Painted it, because rust never sleeps, and will do the leak down test tomorrow.
Gave it a look at stuff that might need to be done..
looks like one of the first things will be to replace the big seal on the rear drive.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-14.jpg)
More tomorrow after the leak down and a little more inspection..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: mwrenn on November 26, 2012, 09:42:29 PM
How cool.  Thanks for posting.  It will be interesting to watch your progress!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: guzzi4cats on November 27, 2012, 09:50:13 AM
That's right. Reading about your rebuild might just inspire me to begin work on my Lario!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Carlo DeSantis on November 27, 2012, 10:15:41 AM
I look forward to following your progress, Chuck.

History tells me you're going to crank out another winner!

Carlo
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on November 27, 2012, 10:33:48 AM
Lario's get all the love these days!  ;-T Fun to watch and learn.
-K
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 27, 2012, 10:49:59 AM
I look forward to following your progress, Chuck.

History tells me you're going to crank out another winner!

Carlo

Thanks, Carlo, but this one is too far gone for a complete restoration. I'd have *way* more money in it than it would ever be worth, and after all.. I'm one of those cheap small block guys that Charlie mentioned.. ;D ;D I'm just trying to get it in good mechanical order and presentable.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 27, 2012, 11:33:49 AM
Looks like I blew a seal.. :o ;D No..I can assure you that's just vanilla ice cream.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-19.jpg)
While the paint was drying I pulled the body work off and looked at stuff..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-4.jpg)
Beer oclock, headed in for the day.
Paint's dry this morning, time to find out what we have..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002.jpg)
Hooked up the leak down tester on the S side.. 76/80.  ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003.jpg)
Uh oh.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004.jpg)
Lots of air blowing through the carb.. leaking intake valve (s). Nothing from the breather on either side, though, so the rings are ok. Sometimes, it's just carbon on a valve seat, and hooking up the tester, blowing air through it, and smiting  :o the valve a few times will clear it up. No joy.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006.jpg)
Ok, we're going in.. ;D Liberally squirting AeroQroil on every fastener the other day pays dividends. Rusty stuff coming right off..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007.jpg)
Fortunately, I have a set of new valves from Iceblue, and lash caps from a machine shop in California.. this should be a no brainer.. I thought.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008.jpg)
I've always said that if you go looking for problems on an old machine you will find them.  ~; One of the nuts that holds the head on stripped, and after a *lot* of very careful levering and use of an impact gun, managed to get it to lock on the stud and I could back the stud out. I'd like to have that hour back.  ;) Oh well, it's not as bad as I first thought when I first started to take it off.. "OH NO! The freakin case is stripped.."  ;D It wasn't.
No problemo..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011.jpg)
Now, I need to find a valve spring compressor. I don't have anything anywhere nearly this small..
Time for lunch.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on November 27, 2012, 12:13:59 PM
Love your writeup and pics Chuck - keep us updated!! ;-T ;-T ;-T

...yeah - the Lario get all the love these days, and they deserve it - great little bike if one know what one is doing  ;)

Keep it comming Chuck :pop
Give the new valves some breakin time, like a couple of Kmiles before you take it up to the redline. They need it. The stems are slightly over sized to compensate for slightly worn valve guides.

Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 27, 2012, 12:40:09 PM
You know what I said about looking for trouble in an old machine?  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012.jpg)
Looks like I need a cylinder. Will just any 650 cylinder work?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on November 27, 2012, 01:18:54 PM
Seems like this cylinder has lived through a valve drop :o

What's the cylinder/piston grade A, B, C??

Stamped on top of the piston and the top cylinder cooling fin.
Depending on the grade, I may be able to help you out if you don't run into a cylinder with the right grade, or en cyl/piston kit of any grade.
A cylinder from a 2V will do too, just make sure it's the same grade as the piston.

Cheers
Brian
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on November 27, 2012, 01:47:42 PM
Oh man!!  That will explain the leaking.  What a mess.  Might want to check with Milich about a new cylinder.  He's been selling parts of a beater Lario I believe.  Think your seat came from it maybe?  Good thing you started early on this one.  Wait til you run it with two good cylinders!  :o :o
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 27, 2012, 01:55:34 PM
Oh man!!  That will explain the leaking.  What a mess.  Might want to check with Milich about a new cylinder.  He's been selling parts of a beater Lario I believe.  Think your seat came from it maybe?  Good thing you started early on this one.  Wait til you run it with two good cylinders!  :o :o
-Kevin

Not really. Compression is good, it's leaking from one or both intake valves. If the dinged up cylinder was the cause of the low reading, you'd hear air coming out of the breather. Nope.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 27, 2012, 01:57:31 PM
Seems like this cylinder has lived through a valve drop :o

What's the cylinder/piston grade A, B, C??

Stamped on top of the piston and the top cylinder cooling fin.
Depending on the grade, I may be able to help you out if you don't run into a cylinder with the right grade, or en cyl/piston kit of any grade.
A cylinder from a 2V will do too, just make sure it's the same grade as the piston.

Cheers
Brian

Ok. What's the ABC, bore diameter?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on November 27, 2012, 02:19:01 PM
Ok. What's the ABC, bore diameter?

Yes sir :)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 27, 2012, 03:44:46 PM
Oh man!!  That will explain the leaking.  What a mess.  Might want to check with Milich about a new cylinder.  He's been selling parts of a beater Lario I believe.  Think your seat came from it maybe?  Good thing you started early on this one.  Wait til you run it with two good cylinders!  :o :o
-Kevin

If the pistons are still good, you could always have the cylinders repaired and replated by someone like Millennium Technologies.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 27, 2012, 08:34:27 PM
Well.. it's getting *expensive* now..  ;D That's 2 quarts of 10-60 full syn going down the drain. Tomorrow should be an interesting day.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: JoeW on November 27, 2012, 10:17:22 PM
Yes sir :)
Guzzi pistons and cylinders are matched sets. The published bore size is one thing but, piston to cylinder clearance is measured in thousanths so, sets are made and denoted by letters a b or c to assure the clearance is within tolerance.

Chuck, I have an nos clutch, some intake boots and I think some con rod bolts from a purchase I made several years ago. If those items come up on your parts list let me know. Ill make you a good deal on them.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 28, 2012, 06:19:40 AM
Guzzi pistons and cylinders are matched sets. The published bore size is one thing but, piston to cylinder clearance is measured in thousanths so, sets are made and denoted by letters a b or c to assure the clearance is within tolerance.

Chuck, I have an nos clutch, some intake boots and I think some con rod bolts from a purchase I made several years ago. If those items come up on your parts list let me know. Ill make you a good deal on them.

Thanks, Joe.. I put new intake boots on it before the trip. I *hope* I'm not needing those con rod bolts.  ;D
I don't know where to get small block stuff like rings, gaskets, etc. Anyone?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on November 28, 2012, 07:26:02 AM
Check this place Chuck
http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/TheShop/index.php?q=piston+rings&f=d&Model=14

I have bought rings here - although in the UK...
Fair price.

Check your cylinder/piston sets - if it's Gillardoni's you have, you will need rings that match these kits. They are not the same as OEM's, but from what I can spot on the pic's you have OEM's.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 28, 2012, 10:29:35 AM
Check this place Chuck
http://www.gutsibits.co.uk/pr/TheShop/index.php?q=piston+rings&f=d&Model=14

I have bought rings here - although in the UK...
Fair price.

Check your cylinder/piston sets - if it's Gillardoni's you have, you will need rings that match these kits. They are not the same as OEM's, but from what I can spot on the pic's you have OEM's.

Good luck!

Looks like standard stuff, stamped C. Looked up the dimensions in the manual, and I'm amazed at the tolerances of the 3 different sets. 3 ten thousandths of an inch??  :o I'll bet Luigi's ruler doesn't measure that closely. ;D What do they think this is, a turbine?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on November 28, 2012, 11:18:20 AM
Looks like standard stuff, stamped C. Looked up the dimensions in the manual, and I'm amazed at the tolerances of the 3 different sets. 3 ten thousandths of an inch??  :o I'll bet Luigi's ruler doesn't measure that closely. ;D What do they think this is, a turbine?

 ;D Yeah snazzy little bugger - C is the biggest bore - same as mine.
...unfortunately I only have a couple of A's with no pistons.

I do have a 2 C's including pistons.
Best to get them in the US, due to postage, but if you have a problem finding a C cylinder or piston/cylinder set, let me know.
Replating is in most cases far more expensive than a good used kit. I assume you have C's at both sides, if not, I'd get a matging kit to replace the dinged up cylinder with matching piston, so you have identical grades at both sides, but that's just me.

Martin Hagemann may be able to help too - he's the Lario guro in the EU.  http://www.guzziepiushop.de/shop/

Cheers
Brian
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 28, 2012, 11:21:21 AM
Day 3, a good morning.
Pulled the cylinder and had a look at the piston. Pretty good shape with very little scuffing. The wrist pin fits well, and also fits the con rod small end well.  ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-24.jpg)
While I was doing that, I pulled the level plug on the rear drive to make sure that no kidding it is the big seal on the rear drive, and not the rear seal on the transmission filling up the rear drive to make it leak. No problem, just the rear drive seal, an easy fix..
Went ahead and drained it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-15.jpg)
Here was the big worry. If the cam is toast, as far as I'm concerned, this bike would be relegated to "parts bike" status, and I would be done before I get started. ;D Looks ok, at least I've seen much worse. It's the late one with 14 mm lobes and no spalling. Woo hoo!
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-10.jpg)
The timing case gasket is leaking, so might as well start getting to it. Marked the Dyna with Die blue and a scribe so I can go back to where I timed it..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-5.jpg)
To remove the alternator rotor, Guzziology sez to either buy (crazy talk)  ;) the tool, or make one 5mm diameter and 2" long. From a past life as a mold maker, I have hardened ejector pins, and I cut one off with a die grinder, taking care to not let it get hot. If you do that, the temper will be gone on that end, it will mushroom, and your life will suddenly take a turn for the worse.  ;D Popped right off, but I was just beginning to get worried..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-5.jpg)
 Now, we can get to that pesky gasket..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-1.jpg)
Think I'll take a break, now that I know (sort of) where I'm headed with it..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 28, 2012, 11:41:02 AM
;D Yeah snazzy little bugger - C is the biggest bore - same as mine.
...unfortunately I only have a couple of A's with no pistons.

I do have a 2 C's including pistons.
Best to get them in the US, due to postage, but if you have a problem finding a C cylinder or piston/cylinder set, let me know.
Replating is in most cases far more expensive than a good used kit. I assume you have C's at both sides, if not, I'd get a matging kit to replace the dinged up cylinder with matching piston, so you have identical grades at both sides, but that's just me.

Martin Hagemann may be able to help too - he's the Lario guro in the EU.  http://www.guzziepiushop.de/shop/

Cheers
Brian
Eeks! I'm a 'Merican.  ;D I did run a German duplicating milling machine one time, and taught myself just enough German to run it, but...Merican's only know one language, and don't know that one very well.. :D

Doing the metric to 'Merican conversion on the cylinder size.. the largest A cylinder is 3.1498", and the smallest C cylinder is 3.1500. I have a *really* hard time thinking it makes a nickles worth of difference. I would think that by the time a hone is ran through an A cylinder just to clean it up, it would be a C..or bigger.. <shrug> or, do you not clean them up?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 28, 2012, 11:53:18 AM
Replating is in most cases far more expensive than a good used kit.

"Good used" is oft times false economy. At around $209 per bore, I don't feel that replating is that expensive and I'm "frugal". A nice, fresh bore to start with is a good thing IMO. Do it right the first time. 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 28, 2012, 11:54:53 AM
"Good used" is oft times false economy. At around $209 per bore, I don't feel that replating is that expensive and I'm "frugal". A nice, fresh bore to start with is a good thing IMO. Do it right the first time. 

I won't argue that, Charlie.. but then where do I get the rings for it?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on November 28, 2012, 12:09:25 PM
I won't argue that, Charlie.. but then where do I get the rings for it?

As I posted earlier on the Small-block Guzzi Group, Deves sells ring sets for Larios (and many other Guzzis): http://www.deves.com/devesrings/cycles_MOTO_GUZZI.php . Part no. MC-130. Harper's sells them too. They're the correct material to work with all Nikasil type platings according to the tech guy I spoke with there.

MG Cycles lists all of the gaskets, so no problem there. Most likely Harper's has them as well.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on November 28, 2012, 12:21:03 PM
"Good used" is oft times false economy. At around $209 per bore, I don't feel that replating is that expensive and I'm "frugal". A nice, fresh bore to start with is a good thing IMO. Do it right the first time. 

At that price I agree - that's not the going price here - at least double...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on November 28, 2012, 12:32:23 PM
Eeks! I'm a 'Merican.  ;D I did run a German duplicating milling machine one time, and taught myself just enough German to run it, but...Merican's only know one language, and don't know that one very well.. :D

Doing the metric to 'Merican conversion on the cylinder size.. the largest A cylinder is 3.1498", and the smallest C cylinder is 3.1500. I have a *really* hard time thinking it makes a nickles worth of difference. I would think that by the time a hone is ran through an A cylinder just to clean it up, it would be a C..or bigger.. <shrug> or, do you not clean them up?


I just would not use a second hand cylinder if I could not still see the hone "tracks" - in many cases you can - I'm sure you can hone an A up to a C, or if you replate - it should be possible to hit 3.1500 again and your piston would go for another run with new rings. That would indeed be the best way to go.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 28, 2012, 02:48:56 PM
As I posted earlier on the Small-block Guzzi Group, Deves sells ring sets for Larios (and many other Guzzis): http://www.deves.com/devesrings/cycles_MOTO_GUZZI.php . Part no. MC-130. Harper's sells them too. They're the correct material to work with all Nikasil type platings according to the tech guy I spoke with there.

MG Cycles lists all of the gaskets, so no problem there. Most likely Harper's has them as well.

Thanks, Charlie.. I never got that post on my email. When I try to open the Yahoo site, I get a !Problem loading page error.
Rings are really all I've been worried about except for the cylinder hold down stud 96 51 02 03 and nut 92 66 00 10.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on November 28, 2012, 11:52:22 PM
Eeks! I'm a 'Merican.  ;D I did run a German duplicating milling machine one time, and taught myself just enough German to run it, but...Merican's only know one language, and don't know that one very well.. :D


NP Chuck - you guys invented Google Translate to fix that ;D - it will do it all in secs.  ;-T
I only know Danish and English, so I use it when I need to talk to Luigi and Fritz occationally the flying Dutchman too  ;D

Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on November 29, 2012, 12:43:40 AM
Thanks, Charlie.. I never got that post on my email. When I try to open the Yahoo site, I get a !Problem loading page error.
Rings are really all I've been worried about except for the cylinder hold down stud 96 51 02 03 and nut 92 66 00 10.


Chuck
I case you cannot get this I have studs from my old crank case where the thread was stripped in the case - including bolts  :-\  Just PM me your address. From the part number is seems like it's the short 10mm stud.

Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on December 01, 2012, 12:19:53 AM
Chuck
I'm really sorry to tell you this, but the cam look suspiciously like a 12mm lobe version. Have you actually measured it?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-10.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on December 01, 2012, 03:11:46 AM
          This is exciting stuff ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 01, 2012, 07:11:57 AM
Chuck
I'm really sorry to tell you this, but the cam look suspiciously like a 12mm lobe version. Have you actually measured it?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-10.jpg)

Yeah, 14mm. You really know how to make a guy sweat, since Metric isn't my native language.. ;D so I ran out and measured again.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-23-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on December 01, 2012, 07:30:43 AM
Ok -  sorry Chuck  ;D :D then you are good   ;-T

Here're the two compared. The 12mm is the uppper shaft in the pic. The spacing between the lobes nomally gives away the cam version, when one see a picture of either one.
(http://s8.postimage.org/fx17qflc1/DSC00036.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fx17qflc1/)


The 14mm cam shaft
(http://s12.postimage.org/5v7fxwzx5/DSC00038.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5v7fxwzx5/)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 01, 2012, 11:01:10 AM
Well, let's see what we have.. a quicky valve spring compressor made out of some free machining canvas bakelite I had laying around.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-14-1.jpg)
All the valve guides are in spec. The largest is at the high limit of new.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-18-1.jpg)
Just for grins, I thought I'd check the length of the old valves to see if any had stretched. They were remarkably consistent, only one being .002" longer.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-12-1.jpg)
I could probably just have lapped in the leaking intakes on the dis side cylinder and forgot about it.  ;D Now, I'm fixing something that ain't broke.. ;) well.. that cylinder *is* pretty beat up. I sent it out to be welded and replated yesterday.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: geeseman on December 01, 2012, 12:42:51 PM
Geez Chuck I am starting to feel guilty about picking it up and bringing it to you. :-[
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 01, 2012, 01:55:47 PM
Geez Chuck I am starting to feel guilty about picking it up and bringing it to you. :-[

Dan, as SuperChicken used to say, "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it."  ;D I knew it was a beater, and I've already had a *really* good time with it on the trip out west. This rehab project is fun, too.. and won't be terribly expensive. I'll have more in it than it's worth, but I wanted one, and they don't grow on trees.<shrug> Naturally, one that had been gone through showed up.. cheap.. after I bought this one, ;D ;D but I'd been looking for a long time. I appreciate what you did.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 01, 2012, 02:06:37 PM
Ok, back to work. Let's see if the new valves will lap in. A little dab will do ya, as the old BrylCream ad used to go..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-1.jpg)
Valve lapping compound is very coarse, and you can feel it breaking down as you push and rotate the valve. Less than a minute of this, and it will feel pretty smooth as the valve turns.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-8.jpg)
A little hard to see in this picture, but it looks pretty good.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-9-1.jpg)
All of them lapped in, everything cleaned up, and I like to put a little Marvel Mystery oil on the valve stem. <shrug> What can it hurt?  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/014-3.jpg)
I think I just heard the afternoon break whistle. I'll put em back together after break....
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on December 01, 2012, 04:40:11 PM
 ;-T ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 03, 2012, 11:13:02 AM
Ok, back at it. Putting the heads together using the Ancient Airlines High Tech  ::) Lario Head Assembly Bench. (tm)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-1.jpg)
This is the fiddly type of job that I'm not good at, involving little bitty pieces and a spring.. ;D but with some care and about an hour's time, they are back together.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001.jpg)
Bagged and waiting for assembly.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-1.jpg)
Might as well have a look at that rear drive leak while waiting for parts.
Now, for you big block guys (I'm one, too, of course) Tonti designed the Lario, too. It looks very much like a miniature LeMans, but this is a later design and he'd learned something. See how easy it is to pull the rear wheel? Brakes stay in place and everything. Just pull the axle, and the wheel comes off. ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-1.jpg)
Hmmm. Not much of a leak. If it was an antique airplane that had been sitting around a lot I'd just fly it and watch it. Many times the seal will quit leaking after regular use.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005.jpg)
The thing is, though, it didn't leak at first and started leaking the more I rode it. Decided to open it up, and the bolts that hold all the goodies to the casting were just finger tight.  ::) :o No wonder it's leaking. I could probably just torque them down and that would fix the leak. I'll go in to lunch and think about that a while..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 03, 2012, 11:47:58 AM
After thinking about it a while, I think I'll just torque them down. I'm guessing the last guy in there just forgot. I know.. it's a pretty basic thing, but to err *is* human. That's why I couldn't be a doctor.  ;D Apparently, all the parts are in it  :BEER: it's working and not making noise. I've been in a small block rear drive before, and this is what we would see when taking those bolts loose. That paper gasket is either torn or it's not. I'm betting it's not.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/V50%20III/V50stuff008.jpg)
So, I'm just going to torque it down, and find something better to worry about.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: ccoli on December 03, 2012, 11:55:18 AM
I think there was some issue with those bolts.....Not hard enough??? Check Guzziology.
Believe Dave R also recommended using Schnoor washers on em.
Youv'e almost got me inspired to go out in the garage and work on something, but maybe not....Keep trying.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 03, 2012, 12:14:24 PM
I think there was some issue with those bolts.....Not hard enough??? Check Guzziology.
Believe Dave R also recommended using Schnoor washers on em.
Youv'e almost got me inspired to go out in the garage and work on something, but maybe not....Keep trying.
These are the bolts you're thinking about. You have to ditch the plates under them, and put Schnoor washers on them on the early rear drives.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/V50%20III/V50stuff007.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on December 03, 2012, 02:28:37 PM
I'm guessing you're going to do that along with the extra oil passage for the bearing at a different time?  Love the write-up btw. 
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 03, 2012, 02:40:32 PM
I'm guessing you're going to do that along with the extra oil passage for the bearing at a different time?  Love the write-up btw.  
-Kevin

Thanks, Kevin.. I *think* that by 87 the oil passage upgrade had been done. Dunno for sure, need to do a little research. At any rate, for the few thousand miles I'll be riding it (being realistic here) it's not an issue to me whether it has or not.  ;D
edit: looked it up, and the 87s have the updated rear drive.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on December 03, 2012, 04:50:09 PM
Love this story ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Stormtruck2 on December 03, 2012, 05:27:15 PM
Love this write up and the info imparted.  I envy your skills and talent Chuck.  Kevin, almost regret not trying to talk you out of the little Lario of your when I was there.  :D  Looking forward to getting well enough to get started on the Eldo. Keep up the good work and the write ups Chuck.  ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on December 03, 2012, 10:58:48 PM
Thanks, Kevin.. I *think* that by 87 the oil passage upgrade had been done. Dunno for sure, need to do a little research. At any rate, for the few thousand miles I'll be riding it (being realistic here) it's not an issue to me whether it has or not.  ;D
edit: looked it up, and the 87s have the updated rear drive.

That I didn't know!  Well... Now I do. Thank you Chuck. My Guzziogy didn't mention it and when I bought a new "used" rear drive from Martin he said he did the Shnoors on it. Must have been a '96 maybe.
Cool!
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 04, 2012, 05:40:02 AM
Love this write up and the info imparted.  I envy your skills and talent Chuck.  Kevin, almost regret not trying to talk you out of the little Lario of your when I was there.  :D  Looking forward to getting well enough to get started on the Eldo. Keep up the good work and the write ups Chuck.  ;-T

Thanks, Matt.. but there are *many* on WG that are much more qualified to do tech stuff on a Guzzi than me. I just thought it would be fun to show the steps involved in a refurbish. When I first got the V50III, I joined the small block list on Yahoo, and looked for info like this and really couldn't find much. I did a thing on updating the rear drive, but it's not as picture friendly as WG, so thought I'd do this here.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Matteo on December 04, 2012, 11:09:34 AM
Thanks, Matt.. but there are *many* on WG that are much more qualified to do tech stuff on a Guzzi than me. I just thought it would be fun to show the steps involved in a refurbish. When I first got the V50III, I joined the small block list on Yahoo, and looked for info like this and really couldn't find much. I did a thing on updating the rear drive, but it's not as picture friendly as WG, so thought I'd do this here.

Glad you did it here Chuck. Much easier to follow.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 04, 2012, 11:25:05 AM
Fresh from the west coast, an OEM windshield. Cheep.  ;) The Lario's first piece of bling. It'll replace the broken original, and if I don't like the longer length with kick up, I'll just saw the extra off.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-2.jpg)
Shortly, I'll show you how simple it is to get the "propulsor unit" I think Ducati called it back in the day ;D out of the frame in the small block. To facilitate that, you just have to unhook anything that goes to the engine/transmission/rear drive. Takes about 10 minutes.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-2.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-1.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-2.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-1.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009.jpg)
We'll address the issue of the small block transmission breather, too. Can't have it spewing nasty stuff all over our fresh paint.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010.jpg)
But first... let's see about that weep from the timing case. Yep, the gasket was split at the middle bottom bolt hole, and maybe is the culprit.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-1.jpg)
I mentioned that the small block is a later design than the big block, and the Guzzi engineers learned something else. The timing chain tensioner is a much more elegant design than the big block version.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on December 04, 2012, 01:03:48 PM
That's great to see Chuck.  How many bolts hold that engine in?  I see a couple there, plus one in the lower frame rail I know about.  Hmmm....
Looking forward to the crab.
-Kevin
p.s.  Didn't know you were going to paint her up a bit.  Cool! 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 04, 2012, 03:20:38 PM
That's great to see Chuck.  How many bolts hold that engine in?  I see a couple there, plus one in the lower frame rail I know about.  Hmmm....
Looking forward to the crab.
-Kevin
p.s.  Didn't know you were going to paint her up a bit.  Cool! 

Actually, it's a wheelbarrow rather than a crab..  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on December 04, 2012, 04:00:38 PM
You can actually crab the frame on a small block Chuck, but it is almost pointless. Getting the gearbox out is tight and a bit of a jiggle but it can be done. The way the frame tubes overlap at the front means that there is only limited rotation. All you save is 2 bolts, that you have had to loosen anyway, front left caliper and if a Dyna S is fitted then you don't have to detatch that.

You should remove a Dyna S every so often to lube the advance mechanism so again, not much of a saving but it can be done, just.  ::)

I had to remove the box out of the Monza recently when it started to make a strange intermittent whiny noise. The small block gearbox is more 'elegant' than the same era big block unit too. There are wave washers on the shafts to cushion the sliding dogs and one of these had broken. Hard to see wedged in between the dogs and retaining clips. I only knew there was a problem as I always strain the oil to see if there is any debris in there and the 2 halves of a wave washer were sitting there. Got a washer and a few spares and no more noise.  ;-T I talked to the local Guzzi guy and he told me he has never had to replace one so maybe I went overboard with the spares.  :D The bearings are standard sizes. I only needed to replace one.  

If you are goint to replace the clutch then I've been told the Renault 4/5 unit is a solid plate and less likely to fracture. The only issue is the spline hub is not even in the plate and a little machining is needed. I've seen you workshop so that would be no problem.  ;D I'd double check the spline count and diameter too.

The engine has improvements too. The engine casing forms a web that prevents windage issues from the crank and if you do a quick calculation you will see the height of the oil over the strainer is about the same as a big block Tonti with a spacer and better than an earlier one without.
 
Glad you are enjoying youself.  :BEER:

Rod

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on December 04, 2012, 04:35:08 PM
Actually, it's a wheelbarrow rather than a crab..  ;D
Yes... a better analogy. 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 04, 2012, 07:59:30 PM
Thanks for that info, Rod.. I'm not planning on "fixing something that ain't broke"  ;D yet, but I'll file this away.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 05, 2012, 10:21:26 AM
Ok, lets fix the transmission breather. The cap is just staked on, and easily removed with some prying.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-2.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-3.jpg)
Rummaging through my "good junk" fittings area finds this hose barb.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-3.jpg)
Turning it down to an .002" press fit so I don't have to get out the torch and silver solder it together.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-2.jpg)
High tech assembly press..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-2.jpg)
Just be aware that the breather and proper crush washer are needed to put the correct preload on the shift detent ball and spring..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-1.jpg)
Now, all we need to do is attach some 1/4" fuel hose, run it vertically, and put a u in it so the transmission can still breath but not puke oil all over. It took longer to tell about it than to do it.. ;D
Uh oh.. looks like a trip to Earls, in Gasoline alley in Indy is in order. They made up a rear brake line for Rosie for 20 some bux..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 06, 2012, 03:08:55 PM
You remember what I said about looking for trouble on an old machine?  ;D Found some more. I started to vacuum the fluid out of the calipers and lines, and there wasn't anything coming out of the front left caliper. Cleaned out the rust on the bleeder with a welding tip cleaner. No doubt.. all the calipers will have to come apart. I'm amazed that brake systems keep working with obviously *no* maintenance.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-4.jpg)
yuck
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-4.jpg)
Kevin.. this is for you. I remember you asking how to get to the indicator bulbs in the dash. There are 2 bolts on the triple tree.. just loosen them, no need to take them out, and the dash mounts on two slotted pieces. Push it forward, and it comes off.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-3.jpg)
Take out the two screws on the back of the unit, unscrew the odometer reset knob, and the back will come off with just a little finessing. Sorry, I took a picture and it was too fuzzy to use. You can see the framework that you take loose in this picture to get to the indicator bulbs. (the knurled nuts.)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-3.jpg)
Alrighty now, gaskets came in this afternoon. I hate to do this, but the timing case gasket didn't want to stay where it needed to be. Sprayed some high tack on one side, and let it set a few minutes. Makes it nice and tacky, and you can align all those bolt holes without fear. How 'bout dem Colts!  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-2.jpg)
That's all for today. Off to Indy tomorrow to get some brake lines made up.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on December 06, 2012, 05:48:46 PM
Thank you Chuck for that. This is such great stuff for us to see. Will have my buddy turn something down on his lathe for my new Lario if need be. Good to see what's there.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 08, 2012, 04:02:59 PM
Ran down to Earl's yesterday, and had him make up new brake hoses. Nice stuff, braided stainless, plastic coated. Under 60 bux for the set.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-3.jpg)
Ok, let's clean up the calipers. Put a piece of steel, or whatever you have between the pads that is thinner than the rotor, blow about 100 psi in the port, and the pistons will move out far enough that you can spray brake cleaner behind the pistons. Fortunately, in Indiana, you can still get the good stuff.. ;) Careful with it, now.. eye protection and gloves are the order of the day. A few applications, compressed air, etc. will get out the mung and drool that is trapped behind them because the Distinguished Previous Owner (s) haven't serviced them for 25 FREAKIN YEARS.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-5.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-5.jpg)
Ok, I know this is pretty basic, but in case a newby has never changed out brake pads.. use your flat piece of steel, or a big screwdriver on your old pads and lever between them to push the pistons back, take your brass drift and peck on the back side of the pin that holds the pads on. Thats the opposite side of where the Smurf finger is pointing.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-3.jpg)
Here you can see the anti rattle spring that holds tension on the pads. Take it all apart, clean where the new pads are going to go, clean up the rust and corrosion, put the new ones in, drop the spring back in, and tap the pin home. It's only held in with a tension ring and the slight tension from the anti rattle spring.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-3.jpg)
Well, that was easy.  ;D Hook up your new brake lines and you're done.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-4.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-3.jpg)
Look like they're made for it don't they? ;)
We'll save the filling and bleeding until I decide whether I'm going to put all new controls on it. No need to do that job twice. Hmmm, Beer O'clock. Done for the day.


Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Bella on December 08, 2012, 05:56:36 PM
Chuck, I am totally humbled and impressed.  Just spent 1/2 hour with my jaw dropped reading this thread.  I'm pulling my Norge tank this weekend to epoxy the inside and have asked my engineer buddy to consult on the project. 

Hey, was it you who sent me that hard as a brick seat to remake  :droolfor Kip?  You gotta be a hard ass if you rode that thing to the west coast!!

Scott
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 08, 2012, 07:03:04 PM
Yeah, Kip kindly lent it to me for the trip, but I only rode it about 1000 miles. <shrug> it's comfortable enough. Believe me, I've ridden on worse.  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 14, 2012, 10:53:03 AM
The internet is a wonderful thing. Straight from Denmark, a stud and a couple of nuts for the Lario. Just magically appeared in my mailbox. ;D Need I say thanks, Brian?  ;-T
So let's install some stuff. Clean out the threads with brake cleaner and compressed air. Careful, now.. do I need to mention safety glasses, etc.?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps70f1021d.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zpsac44fd38.jpg)
More than enough blue lock tite..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps37818c6a.jpg)
Double nut the stud and screw it in the correct amount.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps625fb6ee.jpg)
Now, we need to let the thread locker cure for at least 20 minutes, so let's do something else.
This stuff is *really* nasty, but sometimes you need to use it. Safety glasses, rubber gloves required. Oh, and it is a very effective paint remover, so if you have some paint that you care about, keep it off of it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps350dc5ae.jpg)
Just heard the lunch whistle blow, so we'll let this stuff bubble and boil for a while.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 14, 2012, 01:39:21 PM
Well, that stuff made quick work of the unremovable gasket.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps7325094b.jpg)
Dug into my new gasket envelope, and found my supplier had sent me the wrong base gasket. <sigh> Oh, well. It's a nice day, think I'll go fly.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zpsd8958bd9.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on December 14, 2012, 04:47:26 PM
Better luck next time Chuck ;-T Excellent pics ;-T ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on December 15, 2012, 01:27:50 AM
The internet is a wonderful thing. Straight from Denmark, a stud and a couple of nuts for the Lario. Just magically appeared in my mailbox. ;D Need I say thanks, Brian?  ;-T

Seeing the baby back on the road is good enough for me Chuck - and already said thanks  ;)
Tankyou for the pic's. I'm looking forward to the film clip where you fire her up for the first time  ;D ;)
Ciao  :pop
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on December 15, 2012, 01:36:00 AM
We'll save the filling and bleeding until I decide whether I'm going to put all new controls on it. No need to do that job twice. Hmmm, Beer O'clock. Done for the day.


A little tip on bleeding the rear M/C Chuck.

I'm guessing it is the model with the remote reservoir.

Use clear tube from the M/C to the reservoir and ensure there is a clear run rising to it with no dips or crests to trap air.

When you are pumping the lever you will see air bubbles being pushed up the feed hose. Wait for them to rise harmlessly away then continue. It seems to make a big difference on this design. The clear hose is just so you can see when the bubbles have finished.

Cheers

Rod

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 15, 2012, 09:23:58 AM
A little tip on bleeding the rear M/C Chuck.

I'm guessing it is the model with the remote reservoir.

Use clear tube from the M/C to the reservoir and ensure there is a clear run rising to it with no dips or crests to trap air.

When you are pumping the lever you will see air bubbles being pushed up the feed hose. Wait for them to rise harmlessly away then continue. It seems to make a big difference on this design. The clear hose is just so you can see when the bubbles have finished.

Cheers

Rod

Thanks for the tip, Rod. What I normally do is fill the remote by using a syringe and hooking it to the caliper. That tends to push the air upward, and is how I do airplanes with their convoluted lines and many times dual master cylinders on the same brake.  I'll do that first, then if it still needs bled (probably will)  ;D I'll finish with your method.

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 15, 2012, 09:26:06 AM
The repaired cylinder arrived from Millennium Technologies last night. Beautiful work. Not cheap, but good work seldom is.. ;D

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps34ff7e1d.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on December 16, 2012, 02:46:09 PM
Wow - That IS nice work!!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on December 16, 2012, 04:54:10 PM
The repaired cylinder arrived from Millennium Technologies last night. Beautiful work. Not cheap, but good work seldom is.. ;D

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps34ff7e1d.jpg)

What's the process involved with that?  What material do they use?
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 16, 2012, 05:03:36 PM
Plating, then grinding to size. It's compatible with the stock Guzzi rings.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on December 16, 2012, 05:21:20 PM
http://www.mt-llc.com/plating.php

What is NSC?
Nickel Silicon Carbide composite is the technical name for the coating that we apply, NSC for short. NSC is a composite of a special nickel and very small silicon carbide particles evenly dispersed throughout the coating. The photomicrograph at the left shows this dispersion. A good way to visualize the coating is to think of it as cement. The silicon carbide in NSC performs the function of the wear surface and is represented by the rocks. The nickel in NSC would represent the mortar that holds everything together.

Why is Silicon Carbide used?
Silicon carbide is used partly for its uniform particle size, and partly for its hardness. Silicon carbide is second only to diamonds in hardness and therefore provides excellent wear characteristics. The reason diamonds cannot be used is their high cost and the fact that we would have no way to hone it. NSC particle size is a Gaussian distribution of about 3 microns. This size is important so that the coating will not affect the internal components of the engine and too large of a particle will affect ring wear. Another major reason that silicon carbide is used is that it is oleofilic or it has a natural tendency to absorb oil, which in turn helps the oil retention of the coating.

Is all nickel plating the same?
No. The coating Millennium uses is made up of a special type of nickel that bonds the silicon carbide particles together as well as to the aluminum substructure. We will not cut corners by using the generic nickel that some plating companies use. Millennium also strictly prohibits the use of any additives to artificially harden our coating. Use of generic nickel or these additives can result in poor adhesion or abnormal wear. Hardness of the nickel is very important. If too soft the coating will prematurely wear, and if too hard ring life and compatibility will be negatively affected.

How is it honed, and what do you use?
Due to the hardness of the coating and its silicon carbide content, we must use diamonds to hone the cylinder bore. Diamonds alone will not do the job correctly. Special honing tools and honing machines are also important. We have our own design of honing tool ensuring that all our bores are straight and round within ± .00025". We are also capable of much tighter tolerances in necessary situations. Instead of horizontal hones, we use only vertical hones to ensure that the cylinder bore is square with the deck and that it receives a uniform crosshatch.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Mark West on December 16, 2012, 06:29:48 PM
Another nice attribute of Silicon Carbide is it's heat conductivity. Many times greater than steel, Al, or other metals. It also has almost no reactivity with just about any chemical.
We use it for high purity chemical heating for stuff that isn't compatible with quartz. Amazing but damn expensive and very difficult to machine.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Offcamber1 on December 16, 2012, 06:56:34 PM
The internet is a wonderful thing. Straight from Denmark, a stud and a couple of nuts for the Lario. Just magically appeared in my mailbox.

You know, if I didn't know better I would be alarmed by this sentence. ~; ~;
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Stormtruck2 on December 16, 2012, 07:22:07 PM
You know, if I didn't know better I would be alarmed by this sentence. ~; ~;

Are you sure you DO know better?? ;) :D ~; ~;
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on December 16, 2012, 08:42:04 PM
Are you sure you DO know better?? ;) :D ~; ~;
I'd like to know who the stud is?  I only know of the nuts.  :P
K
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Stormtruck2 on December 16, 2012, 09:29:14 PM
Nice collection of them on WG.  :P ~; :D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on December 17, 2012, 08:03:21 AM
Nice collection of them on WG.  :P ~; :D

 :D :D :D ;-T
Do you dare pop a name or two - me running the risk of being one of them  ;D :D ;-T :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: misterg on December 17, 2012, 06:41:03 PM


Straight from Denmark, a stud and a couple of nuts for the Lario. Just magically appeared in my mailbox.

You know, if I didn't know better I would be alarmed by this sentence. ~; ~;

Beat me to it, I was thinking that post was begging for a smart-ass comment!  Something along the lines of "It's amazing what you can get mail ( or is that male?) -order these days!"

Thanks for this excellent thread-- enjoying it thoroughly!   ;-T   :pop  

All this recent Lario activity on the WG forum has really rekindled my love for the little beast.  Bought her as a new leftover in '88 and never a regret since.  I wonder how many other original Lario owners are out there?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on December 17, 2012, 06:59:25 PM
Quote
Thanks for this excellent thread-- enjoying it thoroughly!       

Thanks for that. It's hard to tell whether it's a waste of time or not when you're doing it, but I'd like to see more of it. Some of the things I've sifted from the net have been invaluable to me, and I'm just trying to give back. NOT that I'm even in the same universe as some of the *real* Guzzi guys that post here. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 17, 2013, 11:14:53 AM
Ok, back at it after an extended vacation and then ww ww work when I returned home.  ;D Finished that job yesterday.
A single edge razor blade makes short work of the leftover gasket that the gasket remover spooge and scraper didn't get.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zpsbe11054a.jpg)
Install the cylinder base gasket, not forgetting the oil delivery o ring at the top..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zpse06a8b66.jpg)
I had previously only ran the piston out of the cylinder just enough to remove the wrist pin, so all we need to do here is reinstall it. Some oil on the bushing, careful alignment, and the wrist pin goes in with a light tap fit. Support the piston/rod assy with your other hand as you're doing this.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps6cd6709e.jpg)
Install *new* circlips.. wouldn't want to trash the engine because a used circlip came loose. I always install them with the open end toward the crankshaft..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps89ce6b75.jpg)
Then slide the cylinder assy down, install the new head gasket, and the locator bushing at the lower right. More about that later.. ::)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zpsede868db.jpg)
An STP/motor oil mixture on the ends of the pushrods. We have kept all the parts going back in the same orientation as they came off.. right?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps13006fe7.jpg)
Oops, almost forgot. Iceblue's valves need lash caps. Put those on before the valve train. Back the adjusters all the way out so they won't interfere with torquing the head down. Make sure the pushrods are in the cups by turning them.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsab4f8ab9.jpg)
Guzziology sez.. torque the 4 studs to 20 foot lbs, then the smaller one. Bring it up to 25 ft lbs in the same manner, then let it sit overnight. After it's done that, torque in the same manner to 25 ft. lbs again, and then bring the 4 big studs to 30. Can do.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zpscf268a56.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on January 17, 2013, 11:40:25 AM
All this recent Lario activity on the WG forum has really rekindled my love for the little beast.  Bought her as a new leftover in '88 and never a regret since.  I wonder how many other original Lario owners are out there?

Not many, I'm not one, and most likely ditched it, after the first valve drop, which happens from fast to soon on most, if not mod'ed. Hold on to her. The interest for Lario's seems to heat up slowly but surely.  ;-T

Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on January 17, 2013, 11:41:05 AM
Thanks for keeping the thread alive Chuck  ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 17, 2013, 04:08:35 PM
Ya know that locator bushing? Couldn't find one for the head that had the beat up cylinder. Did I misplace it? Did it fall to the floor and roll into a parallel dimension, never to be seen again? Was it not installed by the previous person that put it together with the beat up cylinder? ~; That's my guess.  ;D At any rate, I wrote down the dimensions of the good one before I installed the S cylinder, rummaged through my pile of "good" junk and found a piece of steel that was about right.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps68318abe.jpg)
Cut away everything that didn't look like a locator bushing.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zps765cff8a.jpg)
And will be ready to do the D cylinder tomorrow..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on January 17, 2013, 04:16:32 PM
Nice!  ;-T  Been there before myself.  This is a great thread.  We sure have some cool Lario stuff going on right now.  One guy fixing up a stocker, another modifying a stocker to a rocker, and yet another making his own late model into an 8 valver.  Splendid stuff!  :o Where else can you get this kind of entertainment?  ;-T  
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on January 17, 2013, 08:56:27 PM
Where else can you get this kind of entertainment?  ;-T  
-Kevin

               +1 ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chas H on January 17, 2013, 10:28:28 PM
I'm following with great interest as I have never seen a 4 valve Guzzi opened up.
Are the rocker arms bronze, copper plated, or?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on January 18, 2013, 01:28:31 AM
Nice!    Splendid stuff!  :o Where else can you get this kind of entertainment?  ;-T  
-Kevin

 :+1  :pop  ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Tazturtle on January 18, 2013, 01:52:43 AM
Outstanding thread. You do nice work Chuck.

Kurt
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 18, 2013, 05:45:25 AM
I'm following with great interest as I have never seen a 4 valve Guzzi opened up.
Are the rocker arms bronze, copper plated, or?

I *assume* they are bronze. I'll look a little harder today. It's a lovely casting, isn't it? The small block in general is simpler and a little more evolved than the big block of that time. Too bad about that valve issue, the 4V is a great runner..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 18, 2013, 05:51:55 AM
Outstanding thread. You do nice work Chuck.

Kurt


<Elvis/1> Thankya thankya <Elvis/0>  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: misterg on January 18, 2013, 09:55:14 AM
It's a lovely casting, isn't it?

Couldn't agree more, was just thinking the same thing myself as I was looking at your pic.  In fact, the Lario is full of beautiful castings, the Italians sure know their metallurgy!  The swingarm, the valve covers, the oil pan and oil filter cover, all gorgeous pieces of work!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 18, 2013, 11:32:41 AM
Alrighty, let's do the Dis side cylinder.. new rings direct from the manufacturer.. I'd never seen a 4 piece oil scraper ring assembly like this and the photocopied directions were not legible. Googleing Deves 4 piece oil control ring installation brought up a pdf with detailed directions on how to install it. The internet "can" be a wonderful thing. 
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps590bdcc5.jpg)
You really need to check the end gap. Too little, and as the ring expands with heat, you have an interference fit. Not good. Push the ring in with the piston, eyeballing squareness. It's not rocket science.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps0b4dc1e5.jpg)
Then, take a set of feeler gauges, and check the end gap against spec. That's kind of a fussy operation. Minimum on the Lario is .011". The second ring was fine at .013. The top compression ring "looked" too tight to me.. after all, I've been eyeballing thousandths for 50 years. <shrug> So, I tried .010. No Joy. .008 would go, and .009 was iffy. That ring may very well have broken in service.
So. Real engine shops have a special tool for ring filing. If you're careful, though, a mill file will do the job. Be gentle, watch each stroke to see where the material is coming off to keep it square. .003" isn't very much.. an RCH is a measured .002". ;D :BEER:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps9da48d9d.jpg)
Ok, we're at .012, time to assemble the rings. The proper tool makes short work of that, after all we don't need a stress riser scratch on the piston from cave manning the rings on there.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zpsbe6b1ec8.jpg)
I normally build chrome engines dry, but the platers said to lube everything. Yuck. Pour it on the rings and work it in, cover the cylinder wall completely.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps2bc6b317.jpg)
Clean the ring compressor and adjust it just tight enough to make the rings flush with the piston. Just barely cover the top ring so the piston will enter the cylinder squarely. Here's where being too gentle will get you in trouble. You want all the rings to enter the bore with one swat. If you are too gentle, a ring will hang up. I'm not talking *smite* here  ;) but a rap. I used a piece of plastic I had laying around, and it went right in.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zpsa1a34551.jpg)
From here, it's the same operation as the Snot Dis side cylinder. Rotate the engine cw (seen from the front) to bring the D side to TDC.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsd581b1fc.jpg)
Closed up. Now, I can quit worrying about having the engine opened up while I'm running another production job and chips are flying around.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zpse1706b63.jpg)
edit for typo

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: mwrenn on January 18, 2013, 01:33:38 PM
This is an awesome thread!  Thanks for posting up all the pictures.  It will really help me out when assembly time comes for my 4v project.  ;-T ;-T ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 18, 2013, 03:19:19 PM
Ok, on to the electrical stuff. I think I mentioned that the switchgear was mismatched. and pretty well fornesqued. On the light switch I had High beam, parking light, and dead short. The other side worked, sort of, but was the wrong switch. Leroy pmed me and said he had some better switches. After an extended negotiation, we finally came to terms. He kept wanting less money than I was willing to pay.  ;D :BEER: I know those kind of guys, if you write them a check for more money than they ask, they won't cash it.  ~; At any rate, we finally came to terms, and a box came in the mail. Besides the switchgear, there was a CD of probably everything that is on the net for the small block, and an unobtainium trapezoidal master cylinder reservoir. I had mentioned that my cap was cracked, but should be able to glue it ok.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps62a3f697.jpg)
This should be plug and play, right? Nope..
The harness on this one is about 12 inches too short.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps855b7cdc.jpg)
After checking with Guzziology, I decided to make a longer one. In for a penny, in for a pound, as they say.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps3346bc51.jpg)
While I'm at it, I may as well fix this bodge. Wonder what made the Distinguished Previous Owner think this was a good idea?  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps0d76caf3.jpg)
Patience and perseverance saves the day.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps18b5815c.jpg)
My ultra modern heat gun makes short work of the heat shrink tubing..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps9f3aec88.jpg)
Woo Hoo! High beam, low beam and flash. Start switch says it'll work. Turnsignals and horn say they'll work, too. ;-T Looks a *lot* better, to boot. Thanks, LeRoy!
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zps7800fd79.jpg)
 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on January 18, 2013, 04:23:52 PM
Enthralling ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on January 19, 2013, 03:49:23 AM
Chuck
Tube between the front fork leggs seems missing on the second last pic....
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 19, 2013, 07:13:32 AM
Chuck
Tube between the front fork leggs seems missing on the second last pic....

Yep. I thought that disabling it was commonly done?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on January 19, 2013, 07:58:31 AM
True, some do it. I'm not sure how well it works. I have mine on, and if tight, you can firm up suspension. Not that I think that is needed on the Lario. Stock suspension has that possibility both front and rear. I have stock at the rear too with this option, but may replace it some time.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 19, 2013, 08:07:25 AM
I think the front is fine. <shrug> I serviced the front and installed new rears before going on our trip. Don't need no steenkin air shocks.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on January 19, 2013, 12:22:40 PM
Those bladders are crap and don't hold a charge anyhow.  Tried fixing mine and it was pointless.  I wouldn't worry about it myself.  You could get Marz. Alluzuras (sp?) like I'm doing on my hopped up Lario.  I'll tell you what that does if when I get it.
-Kevin  
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 21, 2013, 11:18:16 AM
Ok, now that I know the switchgear is going to work, and don't need to replace the switches, clutch and brake perches and levers, and master cylinder <Woo Hoo!> we might as well fill and bleed the brakes.
Here's my re-purposed Cajun Injector (with replaceable o ring) bodge. ;D Suck up enough fluid to get the job done..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps04a1a6fc.jpg)
Get the air out by putting a paper towel over the end and gently injecting. This keeps a guy from spraying brake fluid all over the shop, not that I've ever done anything like that.. :BEER:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps9473d0e9.jpg)
This is a little messy. "Try" to get the hose on the nipple without any air bubbles. Not too fussy, yet, because you are going to push the air bubbles out of the reservoir.
 
With any luck at all, you won't have any air bubbles like this one.  ::) *Don't* let it get into the system. Close the bleed nipple remove the hose, and purge that sucker out of there. This time, it matters not to let any air get in there, a gentle push on the injector as you put the hose back on the nipple (even messier) will do the trick. After you have fluid in the reservoir, close the bleeder and you're probably done.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps872461a5.jpg)
It had a slightly spongy lever, so clamping the lever back with a big tie wrap and letting it sit overnight will let the micro bubbles percolate out of the master cylinder. Patience can be it's own reward.. ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps1e50cc57.jpg)

edit to delete a picture
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chas H on January 21, 2013, 11:46:10 AM
I think you'll have better results leaving that brake lever at rest. The relief port is closed when the brake is applied keeping fluid- and air-from returning to the reservoir.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 21, 2013, 12:30:06 PM
I think you'll have better results leaving that brake lever at rest. The relief port is closed when the brake is applied keeping fluid- and air-from returning to the reservoir.

You are right, of course, but my theory is that the bubbles work themselves to the top in the pressurized line. When the lever is released, they go into the master cylinder. I've always done it and it works for me. <shrug>
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chas H on January 21, 2013, 12:34:23 PM
You are right, of course, but my theory is that the bubbles work themselves to the top in the pressurized line. When the lever is released, they go into the master cylinder. I've always done it and it works for me. <shrug>

That makes sense.
I have done something similar on car brakes by retracting the brake pads to force fluid, and hopefully that troublesome bubble, back into the reservoir.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 22, 2013, 12:45:26 PM
24 hours later, you can see the difference from when I originally tie wrapped it down to as hard as I can pull on it, now. The air goes *somewhere*  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps6a3c76a2.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Tazturtle on January 22, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
Nice one. I used to do the cable tie trick on my 82 1100 Katana. Royal PIA to bleed with the brake fluid controlled fork anti-dive.

Kurt
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 22, 2013, 05:44:33 PM
Nice one. I used to do the cable tie trick on my 82 1100 Katana. Royal PIA to bleed with the brake fluid controlled fork anti-dive.

Kurt

<shrug> For what ever reason.. it works. That was the reason for this thread.. to show newbys what has worked for me, and what's involved with the "barn fresh" find. ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 23, 2013, 04:52:23 PM
I've always said that if you look for trouble on an old machine, you'll find it.  ;D I started to put new fluid in the other front caliper, and I couldn't push it into the master cylinder. The only reason for that is that the piston in the master cylinder isn't returning fully. Unhooked fittings, put 100 psi on the end of the m/s, and nada. It wasn't budging. <sigh> Took it off to have a look see.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps9a947e86.jpg)
I've done a fair amount of brake work on airplanes, but many times on Guzzis, when I do something, it's the first time. I rebuilt Rosie's master cylinder, but this one is different, and I didn't see how it came apart. A little research, and had at it. It takes a long punch to drive the piston out to the stop. I had a 3/32" ejector pin from a mold that is about right. A Guzzi spoke will do it, too, I understand. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps83f3f5ae.jpg)
After the piston bottoms out, turn the whole works upside down, take another special Guzzi Tool, a 14 mm thin wall socket, and give it a swat. Then you can drive the piston out with your spoke, or whatever you have.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpsf37ddaed.jpg)
Yech. No doubt, this Lario's brake system has never been serviced in it's life.. probably not unusual, but still..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps82807fda.jpg)
Looking at this stuff, I cleaned the bore with fear and trepidation. It's obviously had water in it, and it could be toast. $150.  :o Fortunately, it's ok, so a $29 rebuild kit will fix it up. Time to get on the horn and order a kit, and a few other things while I'm at it. I mentioned in the first post the the most expensive bike you can buy is the cheapest, because someone else has already spent the money on it. Remember?  ;D That's ok, this is fun for me.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps42ea7be6.jpg)
I believe that was the 5 o'clock whistle, a little celebration is in order.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps91c3922b.jpg)
Might be a few days before parts get here, so I need to do something else. After all, if there wasn't something to do, it wouldn't be much of a Winter project, would it?

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on January 23, 2013, 05:24:25 PM
Hi Chuck,

I've had issues with sticking pistons before. Mine haven't been water affected but the seals have swolen, probably due to incorrect fluid being used by a PO.

I've always managed to get them to work.

DOT 3 is more slippery than DOT 4. It isn't as heat resistant and should be changed a bit more regularly but it works fine for a road bike. Doesn't affect any type of seal I'm aware of either.

On a really reluctant Grimeca rear M/C on the Morini I fitted a smaller inner spring that did the trick for the piston return. It has a left hand foot brake so I can't meter out the pressure evenly anyway. Simply a coordination issue as I'm right handed. A bit more resistance helps me to not overdo the rear braking. Most of the time I'm better off forgeting it even exists.  :D

Cheers

Rod
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 23, 2013, 05:28:30 PM
Quote
changed a bit more regularly

You mean that once in 25 years isn't enough?  ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Trevor G on January 23, 2013, 05:49:43 PM
True, some do it. I'm not sure how well it works. I have mine on, and if tight, you can firm up suspension. Not that I think that is needed on the Lario. Stock suspension has that possibility both front and rear. I have stock at the rear too with this option, but may replace it some time.

The air is simply a spring assist, to stiffen up the spring rate and increase the front ride height.

I don't think it's at all necessary to do that!

Instead, I compress the forks and pop the air valve to release excess air.  This lowers the front end which makes it a little quicker when turning into a corner.

Since the seals are not great I have to do that every time I ride, but it's not a problem.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chas H on January 23, 2013, 05:50:56 PM
Hi Chuck,

I've had issues with sticking pistons before. Mine haven't been water affected but the seals have swolen, probably due to incorrect fluid being used by a PO.

I've always managed to get them to work.

DOT 3 is more slippery than DOT 4. It isn't as heat resistant and should be changed a bit more regularly but it works fine for a road bike. Doesn't affect any type of seal I'm aware of either.

On a really reluctant Grimeca rear M/C on the Morini I fitted a smaller inner spring that did the trick for the piston return. It has a left hand foot brake so I can't meter out the pressure evenly anyway. Simply a coordination issue as I'm right handed. A bit more resistance helps me to not overdo the rear braking. Most of the time I'm better off forgeting it even exists.  :D

Cheers

Rod

DOT 4 for the most part has a higher boiling point than DOT 3, but will absorb moisture quicker-which lowers the boiling point.
In cars, it is recommended to change DOT 4 fluid on a shorter interval than DOT 3 because of the water absorbtion. I use the fluid and change according to the maker's specs.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 25, 2013, 11:37:37 AM
Looking out the window this morning, I see 2 inches of fresh snow. I used to dislike winter because I had to get out in it. Now, all I have to do is walk back to the shop and play with the Lario.  ;D Life is good...
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps19d93308.jpg)
Many years ago, when I was building street rods, I was scrounging parts at a guy's place and saw this stainless steel sink/counter top laying in his junk pile. The light came on, and I realized it would be the perfect engine building "taco wagon." Simple to clean, etc. "Disposed " of it for him, built it with scrap lumber (free, Guzzi content) but actually had to buy the wheels.  ;D I've built many engines on it over the years.  ;-T So I rolled it into the shop this morning, and stored the airplane junk that it had accumulated.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps202d15c9.jpg)
My son Brad (Guzzi guy and helicopter mechanic, I brought him up right..) told me to get some of this stuff. I'd always used Stoddard solvent and a high pressure air gun to degrease stuff, but he knows what he is doing and I gave it a try.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps13ca6bed.jpg)
It did a remarkable job of degreasing the top, and cleans up with water. When I asked Brad how good a job it did, he said you could paint over it. (!!) Hmmm.
Ok, lets get this drivetrain out of it. Build a sturdy box 8 1/2" tall, lift the front (small blocks don't weigh much) and slide it under the pan. Pick up the rear and slide a 2 by 4 under the rear tire. For you metric guys, a 'Merican 2 by 4 is actually 1 3/4" tall. These dimensions are "just right" and lets everything come apart without issue, including tearing the drive shaft boot if the rear wheel goes too far down when you remove the rear shocks. Don't ask me how I know.  ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps46a71f28.jpg)
Unhook the rear shocks and tie up the rear brake caliper..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zps81ede1bf.jpg)
There is one bolt on each side of the frame and a through bolt on the transmission..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps66c41aef.jpg)
Tap the through bolt with a brass drift.
Then drive the bolt out with an undersized pin. I was a mold maker in another lifetime, and have *lots* of hardend ground ejector pins, perfect for this job.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zps870cc20d.jpg)
This keeps everything aligned while you unhook the 4 frame bolts in front.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zpsb0ae30fe.jpg)
Now, it's ready to come apart, but I hear the lunch whistle blowing. Don't touch that dial! We'll be back in a moment. Well, that's what the tv guy used to say when the program was getting exciting.. ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on January 25, 2013, 12:42:19 PM
 :pop  :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Tobit on January 25, 2013, 12:53:28 PM
Great thread.  About the rear master cylinder, the stuck piston problem you ran into once happened to me.  The first time I bled the brakes on my LeMans IV, a few years after purchase  ;D, I did it by the old open-the-bleeder-and-pump-the-pedal method.  Not only did that not work, the first pump stroked the piston down to never-never-been-this-far-before land where it got stuck in the old marinera sauce.

After a rebuild I learned to bleed as you did, from the caliper and also made a nifty cover for the front end of the master cylinder from some old rubber bit I had laying around.

 ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 25, 2013, 02:38:40 PM
Great thread.  About the rear master cylinder, the stuck piston problem you ran into once happened to me.  The first time I bled the brakes on my LeMans IV, a few years after purchase  ;D, I did it by the old open-the-bleeder-and-pump-the-pedal method.  Not only did that not work, the first pump stroked the piston down to never-never-been-this-far-before land where it got stuck in the old marinera sauce.

After a rebuild I learned to bleed as you did, from the caliper and also made a nifty cover for the front end of the master cylinder from some old rubber bit I had laying around.

 ;-T

 ;D I know what you're talking about..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 25, 2013, 03:18:58 PM
Alrighty, back from lunch. Just pick up the back, hold the handlebar, and wheelbarrow it away. Have a saw horse waiting or you may end up laying it on it's side.. ;D How long did this all take? Considerably less than telling about it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zps6b69b666.jpg)
Here's what's left. A small block is considerably easier to work on than a big block, IMHO.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps90978a77.jpg)
Beautiful motive unit, isn't it? A really elegant engineering solution. I love Guzzis.. ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016-1_zpsefcda49c.jpg)
Ok, enough looking at it, get to work. Loosen the HOSE CLAMP (Guzzi content) on the boot..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/017_zps37f70b81.jpg)
Remove the rear wheel and rear drive. Take off the jam nuts (the big chrome ones) on the swing arm, and *carefully* remove the special fasteners that fit into the swing arm bearings. Some AeroQroil or your favorite spooge here is a plus.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/018_zpsdd4eb4e9.jpg)
These are delicate threads, pay attention.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/019_zpsf59b02af.jpg)
Keep track of this washer on the D side. It's important on reassembly.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/020_zpsc9c6d025.jpg)
Here is the exploded view of the driveshaft assembly. It looks good, and the U joint appears to be rebuildable.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/024_zpsd1ee4704.jpg)
A C ring holds the driveshaft boot in the casting..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/022_zps1af70ae4.jpg)
A short piece of aircraft 4130 bushing stock out of my "good junk" box holds the drive box together for clean up and paint. Drive splines look ok.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/025_zps21c52282.jpg)
Spritzing some of Brad's cleaner on the swing arm and wiping it off with a paper towel is really impressive.  ;-T I guess the boy knows what he's talking about.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/028_zpsb496b829.jpg)
Knocking off early today, time to clean up and organize tools. Next will be the grunt work..cleaning and prepping.

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on January 25, 2013, 04:39:49 PM
The uni cross for the small block is a standard size, unlike the big block Tonti.

Should be available at any good engineering supply. 20mm cap x 44mm across.

As long as the shaft splines are good just change the cross. 

Cheers

Rod
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 25, 2013, 09:10:16 PM
Good info there, Rod. Isn't there some kind of steel sleeve that fits inside of the transmission casting in case of an exploded u joint? Any info on that?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on January 25, 2013, 10:15:01 PM
Good info there, Rod. Isn't there some kind of steel sleeve that fits inside of the transmission casting in case of an exploded u joint? Any info on that?

Actually I do.

TLM used to sell the sleeve. Its just a mild steel tapered tube that you 'glue' into the output shaft casting.

I purchsed one from them but it didn't fit. Not having a lathe can be a PITA so it took me forever to file it down to even a near fit. In the end I got a piece of PVC pipe then filed it to fit and got a local machine shop to make me up a few. I used 2 and gave the others away as presents.

I got them made up slightly oversize as I noted there was a variance between the Monza and later V65GT, only small and probably just a slight variance in the casting. The taper is on the external face and you need to chew away a small section of the forward edge to fit around a casting protrusion in the gearbox casting. Look in and you will see it.

I'll drag out the drawing and send you the dimensions. These are my dimesions pattered by me so there is no 'intellectual property' issues with them.

Any goop of your choice will work really. I think I used RTV silicone gasket goop on one and polyurethane on the other. No problems with either as there isn't a lot of heat there and no wear. I did coat the insides with a bit of tectyl 506 just to stop the sleeve from rusting on the open internal face. Any similar product will work.

Cheers

Rod
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 26, 2013, 06:42:31 AM
Thanks for that, Rod.. I'll look around and see if I can find some heavy walled pipe to start with. Filing that much material?? You'd have to have the patience of a saint.. ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Don Ivey on January 26, 2013, 08:37:46 AM
Who is the maker of that "Super Clean" degreaser you're using?  Thanks, enjoying the thread.

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 26, 2013, 09:51:24 AM
Who is the maker of that "Super Clean" degreaser you're using?  Thanks, enjoying the thread.



Thank you. Glad to see someone is getting some good out of it.  ;D All I can find on the can is Superclean Brands, inc. St. Paul. Tough task cleaner/degeaser. It also has a bunch of "don't get it on this kind of stuff" disclaimers, including paint, glass, aluminum, etc. etc. making it virtually worthless if you follow the directions.  ;D
So, I liberally sprayed it on the rear drive yesterday afternoon and let it sit overnight. The Lario paint is so poor that draining the carbs on it will damage the paint.  :o The Superclean didn't seem to hurt it, so I wouldn't worry too much.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on January 26, 2013, 01:25:41 PM
Alrighty, back from lunch. Just pick up the back, hold the handlebar, and wheelbarrow it away. Have a saw horse waiting or you may end up laying it on it's side.. ;D How long did this all take? Considerably less than telling about it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zps6b69b666.jpg)
Here's what's left. A small block is considerably easier to work on than a big block, IMHO.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps90978a77.jpg)
Beautiful motive unit, isn't it? A really elegant engineering solution. I love Guzzis.. ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016-1_zpsefcda49c.jpg)

Amen, amen and amen  ;-T

I'll soon start rebuilding my 2nd Lario - can't wait. Your thread is teasing the heck out of me Chuck. I just bought an almost complete silver dress (tank, front fender, site panels, tanks spoilers) nicely repainted in the original silver color in Italy. Looks like it just left the Guzzi factory. Frame, mill and tranny are ready. Rear wheel will be powder repainted with the lower frame rails. I can hardly wait.

Great pic's Chuck - valuable info about one of the best and greatest looking SB's ever. Where ever you see one, it's eye candy.

A beauty taken apart, a piece of art all together  :drool

(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery%20%20A/Moto%20Guzzi%20V65%20Lario%2083%20%205.jpg)
Brian
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 26, 2013, 01:56:06 PM
Upon further review.. as they say in the NFL.. after I did a good job of cleaning the rear drive, the Superclean had taken the gloss off the paint after sitting on it overnight. I also tried spraying it through my engine cleaning gun, and stopped immediately after breathing caustic fumes.
So.
This stuff is a little more powerful than I expected, and I probably *will* be able to paint over it. I cleaned up the swing arm, the toughest piece to get clean, blasted it with plain water, and it looks good. No pix, my camera's card just went belly up.  Probably wore it out on this thread.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 27, 2013, 02:14:24 PM
I was talking to Brad, who besides being an airplane/helicopter mechanic, is a *really*good painter, and used to make a living at it. Ferinstance,
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/003-16.jpg)
He said, "ya know, it's going to take a custom mix of a 2 part paint to match that engine color. It'll cost you $150 for chemicals."  :o If this was a true restoration, I wouldn't bat an eye, but it's not. I'm just trying to make it look presentable. I took a valve cover in to the auto paint place, and found this for $5 a can. I bought two.. ;D Supposedly good to 500 degrees, and a really close match.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040425_zps67446e80.jpg)
This was probably the nastiest piece on the bike, so I cleaned it up first.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040422_zps5c48e090.jpg)
Here's the rear drive after cleaning.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040421_zps85c053e2.jpg)
Filed and sanded the worst spots off, masked.. neatness doesn't count.. prepped and rattle canned the black.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040426_zps900a5154.jpg)
We're now officially waiting for the paint to dry. Maybe tomorrow, I can rattle can the grey on the rear drive and swing arm to see how it looks. Normally, of course, a guy would paint all the same color at the same time, but with no gun or equipment to clean up, life is so much easier..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: mwrenn on January 27, 2013, 08:10:44 PM
This thread rocks!  Krylon ftw!  LOL  That bike will be a blast to ride...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on January 28, 2013, 12:38:11 AM
We buffed the valve covers to a nice raw aluminum shine and I sprayed with a similar high-temp clear coat. Still look great. Testers orange/red for the GUZZI. Fill them and let them sit a couple days.
That project is really coming along. I might have to paint mine up some day just to keep up with you and Ice. Fun build to watch!
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 28, 2013, 04:07:05 PM
Ok, time to paint some grey. One of the places to *not* cheap out when painting is masking tape. Get the good stuff, hand the paint store your credit card, and forget how much it costs. In another lifetime I was an engineering modelmaker and did a lot of paint masking. Here's the tools of the trade, a scalpel, some tweezers, a trimmed Popsicle stick, and scissors.  ;D Actually, there is some method to the madness. If you start at say the left side, and make your overlaps the same way, it will save a *lot* of time when pulling the tape.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040431_zps7957f6e1.jpg)
Battery acid had done a number on the swing arm. Took some 320 wet or dry and sanded it out.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040433_zps47847e04.jpg)
This is a "temporary" paint booth I made in '99 to paint the Great Lakes. Visqueen, 2X4s, a couple of furnace filters, and an "explosion proof" well, it hasn't so far.. fan. It's coming down after this job... my next (last) airplane project is too big to go in it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040434_zpsb441396c.jpg)
So, wipe the stuff down with oil and wax remover,
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040435_zpsb236e875.jpg)
Lightly tack it, and spray..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040436_zpsbce94d32.jpg)
You do read the directions, right? This grey stuff is totally different than the black from the other manufacturer. It says 2 light tack coats at 10 minute intervals followed by a medium wet coat, all within one hour. They are not kidding. If you just sprayed it on, I think it would run right off onto the floor.  ;D
After it dried to the dust free state, I brought it into the shop to pull the tape. Nothing to it. ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040438_zps5b6aedc7.jpg)
I don't like the color, though.. it's much darker than the can lid. ~; I'll sleep on it and decide whether I''m going to continue with this color or not..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on January 28, 2013, 04:46:50 PM
        Nice work and a very good thread ;D ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Mark West on January 28, 2013, 05:18:33 PM
I agree on the color being too dark. Looks like something you'd spray on some piece of industrial equipment.

having a great time following the thread. Can't wait to see the finished product.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 28, 2013, 07:15:10 PM
I agree on the color being too dark. Looks like something you'd spray on some piece of industrial equipment.

having a great time following the thread. Can't wait to see the finished product.

I agree. I'm more than a little upset about it. It's about the same color as a Lycoming airplane engine, though.. I'm just trying to decide how it will look with the red. <sigh> I probably should have spent the big bucks and had the paint matched, in retrospect.
Looks like I'll have plenty of time to decide. The material I've been waiting on to make the oiler nozzles finally arrived this afternoon. No more playing with the Lario for a while..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on January 28, 2013, 10:23:09 PM
I'd have to see it next to something to know.  Doesn't look too bad as is.  I take it you're not clear-coating anything?
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 29, 2013, 05:22:40 PM
I'd have to see it next to something to know.  Doesn't look too bad as is.  I take it you're not clear-coating anything?
-Kevin

I laid some body work next to the swing arm and rear drive, looked at it off and on while making stuff, and it's growing on me.  ;D After all, the Centauro is a darker grey, and I like Lycomings...  ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Stormtruck2 on January 29, 2013, 07:18:42 PM
Ok, time to paint some grey. One of the places to *not* cheap out when painting is masking tape. Get the good stuff, hand the paint store your credit card, and forget how much it costs. In another lifetime I was an engineering modelmaker and did a lot of paint masking. Here's the tools of the trade, a scalpel, some tweezers, a trimmed Popsicle stick, and scissors.  ;D Actually, there is some method to the madness. If you start at say the left side, and make your overlaps the same way, it will save a *lot* of time when pulling the tape.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040431_zps7957f6e1.jpg)
Battery acid had done a number on the swing arm. Took some 320 wet or dry and sanded it out.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040433_zps47847e04.jpg)
This is a "temporary" paint booth I made in '99 to paint the Great Lakes. Visqueen, 2X4s, a couple of furnace filters, and an "explosion proof" well, it hasn't so far.. fan. It's coming down after this job... my next (last) airplane project is too big to go in it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040434_zpsb441396c.jpg)
So, wipe the stuff down with oil and wax remover,
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040435_zpsb236e875.jpg)
Lightly tack it, and spray..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040436_zpsbce94d32.jpg)
You do read the directions, right? This grey stuff is totally different than the black from the other manufacturer. It says 2 light tack coats at 10 minute intervals followed by a medium wet coat, all within one hour. They are not kidding. If you just sprayed it on, I think it would run right off onto the floor.  ;D
After it dried to the dust free state, I brought it into the shop to pull the tape. Nothing to it. ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040438_zps5b6aedc7.jpg)
I don't like the color, though.. it's much darker than the can lid. ~; I'll sleep on it and decide whether I''m going to continue with this color or not..


Haze Grey and underweigh! 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Cal3Me on January 30, 2013, 12:39:24 AM
I like the Krylon dull aluminum #1403 color . I have even used it on a engine barrel with good results. Dries fast and holds up well under a wrench. I spray it on nuts & bolts a lot too.
Keep plugging away there hoosier........... ;-T


,,,,,,Tim
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 30, 2013, 06:58:54 AM
I like the Krylon dull aluminum #1403 color . I have even used it on a engine barrel with good results. Dries fast and holds up well under a wrench. I spray it on nuts & bolts a lot too.
Keep plugging away there hoosier........... ;-T


,,,,,,Tim

Thanks for that, Tim.. I'll give it a look.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: John Ulrich on January 30, 2013, 08:01:55 AM
It looks 100% better now then the white.  The gloss will repell oil better.   You gonna polish that drain plug?      ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Ronkom on January 30, 2013, 08:44:16 AM
Chuck,
Awesome thread, beautiful work and a VERY nice neat shop! (Remind me to never let you see mine!)LOL
Noticed that the Lario switchgear appears to be the same as what's on my LeMans IV project. In your info exchanges, did you happen to hear from anyone with a right side switch assembly they'd be willing to sell? The kill switch on mine was melted into a lump. I bought a NOS left side switch from Harpers, (eeoooch! not an inexpensive item). I really don't like the up/down turnsignal switch, but, as I've discovered my old arthritic joints can't handle riding the LeMans, I'm going to be selling it as soon as I get a few niggles taken care of. If I was keeping it i'd change out the controls & mount an "everything" switch on the left side, & something different than the stock item on the right. In fact, Curtis advised that course of action when I ordered the stock left switch, wish I'd listened. Ah well, 66 years young & still learning expensive lessons.
Ron Komoroski 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 30, 2013, 09:07:21 AM
It looks 100% better now then the white.  The gloss will repell oil better.   You gonna polish that drain plug?      ;-T

Thanks for your opinion, JU. As I said, It's growing on me.  ;D One of the reasons that I'm doing this thread is for people to have an appreciation for the kind of work that *you* do. This Lario project isn't in the same league..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 30, 2013, 09:16:01 AM
Chuck,
Awesome thread, beautiful work and a VERY nice neat shop! (Remind me to never let you see mine!)LOL
Noticed that the Lario switchgear appears to be the same as what's on my LeMans IV project. In your info exchanges, did you happen to hear from anyone with a right side switch assembly they'd be willing to sell? The kill switch on mine was melted into a lump. I bought a NOS left side switch from Harpers, (eeoooch! not an inexpensive item). I really don't like the up/down turnsignal switch, but, as I've discovered my old arthritic joints can't handle riding the LeMans, I'm going to be selling it as soon as I get a few niggles taken care of. If I was keeping it i'd change out the controls & mount an "everything" switch on the left side, & something different than the stock item on the right. In fact, Curtis advised that course of action when I ordered the stock left switch, wish I'd listened. Ah well, 66 years young & still learning expensive lessons.
Ron Komoroski 

Hiya Ron! Yeah, it's the same as the LM4. They are hard to come by, needless to say, and junk when you find them for the most part. Somebody beat me out on a set of switches with a spare right on the bay, but I'll bet he wouldn't sell it. If it were me, I'd wire around that kill switch, don't need no steenkin kill switch anyway, and put relays everywhere else. That's what I'm doing. Those switches are woefully under designed..
FWIW, there are complete sets of adjustable levers, switches, master cylinder that would *probably* be ok for one disc direct from China for about $115. They look nice, and I almost pulled the trigger until LeRoy made me a deal I couldn't refuse.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: lucky phil on January 30, 2013, 03:25:39 PM
While we are on the subject of Guzzi paint color, does anyone know of a brand of engine enamel that is the same shade as the Centauro/Daytona RS engine grey?
Cant decide whether to go with the original grey which I like in the Daytona or the natural Aluminium after bead blasting for my V11 Sport Daytona engine swap.
Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 01, 2013, 08:40:37 AM
We buffed the valve covers to a nice raw aluminum shine and I sprayed with a similar high-temp clear coat. Still look great. Testers orange/red for the GUZZI. Fill them and let them sit a couple days.
That project is really coming along. I might have to paint mine up some day just to keep up with you and Ice. Fun build to watch!
Kevin

You'd need to gird up your loins Kevin  ;) just had the rear wheel, rear fork and lower rails back from glass blasting, now going to the painter for powder coating  ;D 

Any news from Ed?
Great thread Chuck ;-T ;-T ;-T :pop
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 01, 2013, 10:25:10 AM
Ed is deciding on springs yet.  Heads are at Kibblewhite's.
Do show off your paint when you get it back.  I may go that route at some point.  Be fun to pull her apart and dress her up.
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 01, 2013, 10:47:21 AM
I'll lay out the parts in a separate thread when I got most of it ready. This is Chuck's thunder, so I'll just enjoy that for now  ;-T
I'm really keen to see ride reports of all  the Lario's being worked on just now, plus Mikes V7/8  8)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 01, 2013, 11:00:14 AM
Beardog on this list saw the poor condition of the beater Lario's tailpiece, and dropped this one in the mail. Thanks, Derek! It's even red, but when I took it out of the box, I thought, "uh oh.. I'll bet it's a different color." It is. It's apparently off an LM4, and the red is different. So, in the same spirit of helping out a Guzzi Brother, if someone has a need for it, I'll pass it on.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zpsd22f63c6.jpg)
Dorcia saw me coming in with the camera, and said, "Hey, you aren't playing with the motorcycle instead of working, are you?"  :wife: "Uh, no, boss, I'm making chips." ;D After all, she pays me $40 a week and three beers...
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps43d18641.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 01, 2013, 12:52:31 PM
WHat might she be weaving with that Chuck?  ;) 
-K
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 01, 2013, 06:10:46 PM
WHat might she be weaving with that Chuck?  ;) 
-K

It would be expensive weaving. This stuff costs $3000 for a 2'x4' sheet.  :o ;D
I try not to screw it up...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 02, 2013, 07:38:05 AM
chips?  You have some 'splainin to do on this one.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 02, 2013, 09:52:52 AM
chips?  You have some 'splainin to do on this one.
Kevin

It's a generic term for what is coming off the mill or lathe cutter. The guy that cleans up the mess is the chippie or chipper, depending on the shop.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 02, 2013, 01:41:43 PM
It's a generic term for what is coming off the mill or lathe cutter. The guy that cleans up the mess is the chippie or chipper, depending on the shop.

Ahh... that's how the term "feeling chipper today" came about.  Learn something new everyday Chuck.   :P
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Offcamber1 on February 02, 2013, 08:32:01 PM
Chuck,

My tailpiece has a large crack in it, so I scavenged the tailpiece of the Lario that Ed Milich parted out.  It is an awful Krylon silver and blue so it will need to be painted.  Perhaps we can get Ron James liquored up enough Saturday night at his rally to get him to agree to paint both of ours sometime later this spring?  It aint worth mixing up special paint for one, but two and maybe a LMII/CX100 fairing...

Kip
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 03, 2013, 01:26:15 AM
Make sure the liquor isn't going to cost more than  just asking him straight off  :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 03, 2013, 06:38:10 AM
Chuck,

My tailpiece has a large crack in it, so I scavenged the tailpiece of the Lario that Ed Milich parted out.  It is an awful Krylon silver and blue so it will need to be painted.  Perhaps we can get Ron James liquored up enough Saturday night at his rally to get him to agree to paint both of ours sometime later this spring?  It aint worth mixing up special paint for one, but two and maybe a LMII/CX100 fairing...

Kip

So, it matched that lovely seat you loaned me, eh?  ;D My tail piece is structurally sound, just looks bad. It'll take quite a bit of primer and sanding to fill the divots. If worse comes to worse, it'll get a rattle can job, too.  ~; I found a decent seat on the bay, btw.. only one minor tear. Cheep.  ;D

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 08, 2013, 05:17:17 PM
Ok, back at it. Another nice thing about a small block is once you have the frame off, you can just pick up the engine/transmission assembly and put it on the bench.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps7ff46a55.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003-6_zps7ff46a55.jpg.html)
All together, children.. what happens when you look for trouble on an old machine? "YOU'LL FIND IT." Very good..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/006-4_zpsab114fc6.jpg)
The center stand was ready to fail. Can't repair that right now, the cnc is running and I learned not to fire up the TIG with the cnc running several years ago. High frequency from the TIG during RS 232 communication can make smoke in the computer and cnc.  :o
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zpsa75e894d.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001-4_zpsa75e894d.jpg.html)
This bolt was less than finger tight.  ::( This kind of stuff offends me. If a guy knows enough to be this far into a machine that can kill someone, he should at least care enough to make sure the fasteners are tight. Another was missing.  ::) <sigh>
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/007-6_zpsc53eb96a.jpg)
Oh, well.. pull the frame rails off, clean and start disassembling.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/008-3_zps3e3b307c.jpg)
Keep track of the bushings..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/009-1_zps56749802.jpg)
In Canuck750's most excellent Better than Moe's V7 restoration, he shows the fun part. What he doesn't show is the hours and hours of cleaning, repairing, etc.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/001-17_zpsecd9c56a.jpg)
I started to use my antique engine cleaning gun, and found the brass internal tubing had a split about 2 inches long. Probably a warranty issue, since I've only had it since the 50s.. so I sanded it, got some acid flux, acid core solder, and my antique big hummer soldering iron.. I'm beginning to see a pattern here..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/P1040465_zps80ffbfa7.jpg)
And repaired it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/004-7_zps618b8d1d.jpg)
to be continued...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Offcamber1 on February 08, 2013, 07:31:50 PM
So, it matched that lovely seat you loaned me, eh?

Unfortunately, yes.  Only you, I, Ed, and anyone who saw the bike together in Ed's shop can possibly visualize the travesty of that poor bike's cosmetic condition.  The really sad thing is the poor utterly tasteless sap who assaulted that once beautiful Lario with two rattle cans of silver Krylon and one of blue, and then paid some upolsterer to redo the seat in that appalling red and blue vinyl, probably thought the bike looked really cool.  I can only imagine what his ugly, overweight, tattooed and pierced girlfriend looked like when he had her pose on the bike for pictures while wearing hot pants, a halter top, and tall leather boots.  Look around on facetube (don't stop him, he's on a roll), I'm sure you'll find those pictures somewhere.  Makes me want to spew chunks just writing about it.



Ed did the Guzzi world a huge favor when he parted the sad thing out.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on February 08, 2013, 10:31:37 PM
This bolt was less than finger tight.  ::( This kind of stuff offends me. If a guy knows enough to be this far into a machine that can kill someone, he should at least care enough to make sure the fasteners are tight. Another was missing.  ::) <sigh>

Chuck,

It isn't the first time I've had those bolts come loose. They do seem to be prone to it and if the normal nuts are used then they seem to self loosen.

I now use a combination of what I have to hold them in place, nylocs, spring washers and loctite.

Not making excuses for a PO, don't know why, just know they are prone to it.

Cheers

Rod
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 08, 2013, 10:57:50 PM
 :+1

Center stand bolts comes loose too occasionally on SB's.
Fasteners I recommend checked from time to time, or do as Rod suggests.

I'm a bit surprised over the rear swing bearing boss crack. Hope this is the correct name for it in English. I've never seen this before. Well, no intirely true, I've seen the boss break in half, with the bearing popped out. Not one of mine, though. The rear gearbox cover is the last thing you want breaking up on an SB. SB's are basically build around that cover  ;D Check the U-joint too. A faulty U-joint can do in a rear gearbox cover too - and that's no laughing matter  :-X

Ciao  
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 09, 2013, 06:09:03 AM
Chuck,

It isn't the first time I've had those bolts come loose. They do seem to be prone to it and if the normal nuts are used then they seem to self loosen.

I now use a combination of what I have to hold them in place, nylocs, spring washers and loctite.

Not making excuses for a PO, don't know why, just know they are prone to it.

Cheers

Rod

Thanks for the heads up.. I'll use blue lock tite when I reassemble it. I just figured that when I found the fasteners on the rear drive loose, and then these two, it was just a sloppy mechanic that put it back together.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 09, 2013, 06:11:38 AM
Quote
rear swing bearing boss crack.

 :o :o Now I'm going to have to run out to the shop.. all I saw was a notchy bearing. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: sthomag on February 09, 2013, 07:37:47 AM
I'm following with great interest as I have never seen a 4 valve Guzzi opened up.
Are the rocker arms bronze, copper plated, or?

They're apparently flash copper plated. Engine parts often are; I've no idea why. People often mistake copper plating fro bronze plating, but bronze plating is very difficult and doesn't have that red-brown color.

No doubt they're made of forged steel. Bronze rocker arms would be far too heavy.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 09, 2013, 03:42:18 PM
They're apparently flash copper plated. Engine parts often are; I've no idea why. People often mistake copper plating fro bronze plating, but bronze plating is very difficult and doesn't have that red-brown color.

No doubt they're made of forged steel. Bronze rocker arms would be far too heavy.

Yep, I stuck a magnet on em. Pretty things.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on February 09, 2013, 06:46:40 PM
Thanks for the heads up.. I'll use blue lock tite when I reassemble it. I just figured that when I found the fasteners on the rear drive loose, and then these two, it was just a sloppy mechanic that put it back together.

I've never had issues with the rear drive bolts, just the frame/gearbox bolts.

Possibly a combination of vibration and sloppy work.  ;)

Rod
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Skeeve on February 10, 2013, 08:56:32 AM
They're apparently flash copper plated. Engine parts often are; I've no idea why.

Probably because it keeps them from rusting while sitting on the parts shelf, and helps with heat xfer once put into use.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chas H on February 10, 2013, 09:30:32 AM
They're apparently flash copper plated. Engine parts often are; I've no idea why. People often mistake copper plating fro bronze plating, but bronze plating is very difficult and doesn't have that red-brown color.

No doubt they're made of forged steel. Bronze rocker arms would be far too heavy.

Thanks for the reply, I was quite curious.
Copper plate is usually found on parts that have been case hardened as the copper prevents hardening and imbrittlement of surface underneath, but allows uplated surfaces to be hadrened. Connecting rods for 2 stroke engines often exhibit copper plating except for the bearing races. The tip of the rocker arms was probably hardened in this manner, and possibly the bore.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 10, 2013, 10:54:13 AM
Thanks for the reply, I was quite curious.
Copper plate is usually found on parts that have been case hardened as the copper prevents hardening and imbrittlement of surface underneath, but allows uplated surfaces to be hadrened. Connecting rods for 2 stroke engines often exhibit copper plating except for the bearing races. The tip of the rocker arms was probably hardened in this manner, and possibly the bore.

Quote
as the copper prevents hardening
End of the mystery.  ;D ;-T Makes sense.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 10, 2013, 11:13:08 AM
:o :o Now I'm going to have to run out to the shop.. all I saw was a notchy bearing. ;D

Is it OK? Seems like a small peace of alu sticking out from the right side of the boss. Could be grease or dirt too...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 10, 2013, 02:38:22 PM
Is it OK? Seems like a small peace of alu sticking out from the right side of the boss. Could be grease or dirt too...

That's twice you've given me a scare..  ;D ;D Nope just a bad bearing. Do you happen to know the bearing number?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 10, 2013, 08:13:03 PM
Ok, lets fix this centerstand. Bead blast so we can see what's going on.. just about to come off.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zpsa75e894d.jpg)
Hopefully, I have a big enough tip to do the job. We'll use copper coated mild steel filler.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps6ecd7bc2.jpg)
Well, no. This ain't no airplane part.  ;) My biggest tip is a little too small, but I'll give it a go. Tack it here so it doesn't open up when starting to weld it.
 (http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpsb9c2b833.jpg)
Far from beautiful, but it's stuck. As I expected, oil kept percolating out of it.. letting it cool slowly by playing the flame over it keeps it from getting brittle. TIG would have been a nightmare on this job, the oil would have kept contaminating the puddle. Oxyacetylene is much more forgiving.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps75b7f239.jpg)
Hit it with some 220..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsd13bcd8c.jpg)
And rattle can to the rescue again.  ;D We can throw this on the done pile tomorrow when I'm back at work.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zps460fa889.jpg)





Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 10, 2013, 11:39:44 PM
That's twice you've given me a scare..  ;D ;D Nope just a bad bearing. Do you happen to know the bearing number?

Here you go - the least I can do for giving you shock treatments  ;)
(http://www.stein-dinse.biz/images/product_images/popup_images/92204215.jpg)

Guzzi part number 92 20 42 15
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 11, 2013, 05:46:16 AM
$12.02 each. Thanks, Brian..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 11, 2013, 11:31:42 AM
Sprayed the engine/transmission with degreaser and brought it back to the bench to detail.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps7ff46a55.jpg)
Naturally, the only way to completely clean for paint is to strip it down and abrasive blast it. Not going to happen.  ;D Right now, it's looking clean except for the fins on the cylinder and a few places on the finning on the case, so.. getcha some solvent, a popsickle stick or tongue depressor, cleaning cloths and have at it. It can be a Zen type of thing, just communing and knowing that the better job you do the better the engine will look in a few years. There's nothing to do wrong, so sit back, turn up the tunes, pop open a beer and while away a few hours.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps26c14fa5.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 11, 2013, 11:45:08 AM
Lookin' good Chuck!   ;-T
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 11, 2013, 04:21:06 PM
Thanks, Kevin.. I've had some body work sitting next to the rear drive for a week or so now, and I've gotten used to the color, so...
Mask it off, put THE BOX on a roll around stand, cover it and sit the engine on there. It all has to be painted at one time, so this way you can get underneath. I'm leaving the oil pan bare as that is the way it was. Also makes it easier to paint.  ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zpsabc4aaa7.jpg)
Wipe it down with grease and wax remover one last time, roll it into the paint booth, and have at it. Two light cross coats followed by one medium wet coat at 10 minute intervals. All have to be done in an hour. Keeps you pretty busy.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps60fb0e0d.jpg)
After it's dried dust free, roll it back into the shop to cure for a week before messing with it. Same drill as before, pull the tapes as soon as practical.. it makes cleaner edges.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zpsf5bcf931.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 11, 2013, 05:57:49 PM
Now that's sharp!!  :drool  You have planted a seed for a future winter project. 
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: huub on February 16, 2013, 03:19:52 PM
wow, nice work.
i am suddenly interested in lario's , i just bought one a couple of hours ago.  ;D
the temptation to start mucking around with valvesprings and valves proved too big.
i did  read anything i can find on valves and valvesprings ,
one french page qoutes GSXR 750 valves ( both inlet and exhaust)

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://k1c.free.fr/articles.php%3Flng%3Dfr%26pg%3D192&usg=ALkJrhgvsmYVji7YY3ggGA6S6xDEhpiBpQ

that sound like a pretty easy way out , buy a used suzuki head , and you end up with 16 valves.
anybody tried those?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 16, 2013, 04:52:43 PM
wow, nice work.
i am suddenly interested in lario's , i just bought one a couple of hours ago.  ;D
the temptation to start mucking around with valvesprings and valves proved too big.
i did  read anything i can find on valves and valvesprings ,
one french page qoutes GSXR 750 valves ( both inlet and exhaust)

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://k1c.free.fr/articles.php%3Flng%3Dfr%26pg%3D192&usg=ALkJrhgvsmYVji7YY3ggGA6S6xDEhpiBpQ

that sound like a pretty easy way out , buy a used suzuki head , and you end up with 16 valves.
anybody tried those?

Never heard of using those valves.  I'd get verification. 
Must have :PICS!:
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 17, 2013, 12:29:16 AM
Me neither. But if they have the correct measurements, why not.

The link you shared looks very interesting, although the google translation is a bit bumpy for me to get it all.

An additional dimension to this is to make sure the cam is the 14mm version.
I have a couple of tappets in my shop like the ones shown. Nasty  >:(
... and a 12mm cam even worse than the one shown.

You are in for an exciting, but rewarding journey Huub ;-T
 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Unkept on February 17, 2013, 08:12:51 AM
Very nice work Chuck! I'm inspired.  ;-T

I just bought some banged up titanium "accessori" mufflers for my V11 lemans. The same kind you have on your "Rosie". $150 shipped!  ;D Can't wait to get to work on those + the needle roller bearing I need to replace... (Found the  Koyo Torrington HK2516.2RS Needle Roller Bearing on Amazon for $14.70 shipped instead of Guzzi's  $46.47).
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: mwrenn on February 17, 2013, 03:45:48 PM
Well, looked up the GXSR valves,  the head dimensions and length are ok, but stem diameter is 1 mm less.  To use them you would need custom guides, or find some guides the right dimension.  Personally, I would stick with the stock dimension valves, I would be afraid of the smaller diameter stems being weaker.  The stock Guzzi Lario valves I have step down to a smaller dimension by the head, to increase airflow I suppose.  Of course that's where they break as well.  Hmmmm..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chas H on February 17, 2013, 04:57:30 PM
The GSXR engine uses inverted bucket tappets pushing directly on the valves, which eliminates any side thrust on the valve stems. Using such a skinny stem in a rocker arm operated system is not a good idea.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 17, 2013, 05:57:50 PM
FWIW, the dealer expo at Indy was this weekend. A fellow Guzzi guy and dealer kindly gave me a pass,  ;-T so I jumped at it. *Lots* of good info there. I talked to the Kibblewhite people a bit, and they said there were some (forged one piece stainless) Suzuki valves that were easy to modify to fit the Lario. They were familiar with what is going on with Kev's bike, yada yada. I haven't even looked at their catalog yet, but I'm sure they know what they are doing. So. If I were thinking about doing a Lario, I'd at least have a look at their catalog.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 17, 2013, 06:51:39 PM
FWIW, the dealer expo at Indy was this weekend. A fellow Guzzi guy and dealer kindly gave me a pass,  ;-T so I jumped at it. *Lots* of good info there. I talked to the Kibblewhite people a bit, and they said there were some (forged one piece stainless) Suzuki valves that were easy to modify to fit the Lario. They were familiar with what is going on with Kev's bike, yada yada. I haven't even looked at their catalog yet, but I'm sure they know what they are doing. So. If I were thinking about doing a Lario, I'd at least have a look at their catalog.

Seems some Charlie fellow mentioned Kibblewhite back before IceBlue had his Chinese valves made...  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: lucky phil on February 17, 2013, 06:52:38 PM
Chuck, I do understand the premis upon which this rebuild is happening and enjoy the thread but I must say I hate painted fastener heads.
Was contemplating this as I need to paint the gearbox on my V11 sport to match the daytona motor when I fit it. What a PITA to fit new fasteners but as I said I hate the look of them painted.
ciao  
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 17, 2013, 07:40:10 PM
Chuck, I do understand the premis upon which this rebuild is happening and enjoy the thread but I must say I hate painted fastener heads.
Was contemplating this as I need to paint the gearbox on my V11 sport to match the daytona motor when I fit it. What a PITA to fit new fasteners but as I said I hate the look of them painted.
ciao  

Most of the factory Guzzi fasteners were painted on this one.  ;D And, I agree. I'm planning on replacing them as I get around to it.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: mwrenn on February 17, 2013, 07:55:30 PM
FWIW, the dealer expo at Indy was this weekend. A fellow Guzzi guy and dealer kindly gave me a pass,  ;-T so I jumped at it. *Lots* of good info there. I talked to the Kibblewhite people a bit, and they said there were some (forged one piece stainless) Suzuki valves that were easy to modify to fit the Lario. They were familiar with what is going on with Kev's bike, yada yada. I haven't even looked at their catalog yet, but I'm sure they know what they are doing. So. If I were thinking about doing a Lario, I'd at least have a look at their catalog.

Kibblewhite is making some Black Diamond valves for my 4V project.  $106 each, for eight valves.  Im pretty sure they won't break though.  LOL  Intakes and exhausts will both be 21-4N stainless.  I tried to get Iconel for the exhausts, but they did not have blanks that small.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 17, 2013, 08:07:03 PM
Quote
$106 each

 :o ;D Hey, if you want to play, ya gotta pay.. ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 17, 2013, 08:10:12 PM
Kibblewhite is making some Black Diamond valves for my 4V project.  $106 each, for eight valves.  Im pretty sure they won't break though.  LOL  Intakes and exhausts will both be 21-4N stainless.  I tried to get Iconel for the exhausts, but they did not have blanks that small.

There you go!  Mine are Kibbles but not stock size.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: mwrenn on February 17, 2013, 08:23:40 PM
:o ;D Hey, if you want to play, ya gotta pay.. ;)

Yeah, finding that out!  LOL  I figure expensive valves are cheap insurance.  :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 18, 2013, 11:39:52 AM
Alrighty, let's replace the swing arm bearings. There isn't any work like this on airplanes, so I've never been tooled up to do it. I *have* removed a blind bearing by making a punch a few thousandths smaller than the bearing bore, filling the bore with grease, smacking the punch with a hammer, and forcing the bearing out that way. You have to make the punch, and it's messy.<shrug> So, Joe.. from the other thread.. this is the Harbor Freight blind bearing puller set. Like most of their stuff, you can find a coupon and get it for about half price. I saw this kit one time, thought, "How can they do that this cheaply?" I bought it for 30 some bucks, including the pretty decent blow molded case. I couldn't buy the steel to make it for that  ::) and it is decent quality. It'll do bearings from 3/8 to 1 inch.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps988d075c.jpg)
Just put it in and tighten it hand tight.. no need to try to break it by using wrenches.  ;D Screw the slide hammer on the remover, and a few light taps will pull that bearing right out of there.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsafd6f35b.jpg)
To install the new bearings, find a socket that is a little smaller than the outside diameter of the bearing. You *never* want to hit a bearing on the inner race. I put the new bearings in the freezer and let them get down to zero. Speed is of the essence, now. Insert the cold bearing in the bore and line it up squarely. Tap around the outside of the bearing with your copper (or brass or lead, not steel :o ) hammer, keeping it square going into the bore. It will go in pretty easily, because if it is too tight a press fit the bearing will bind up. It's just a very light press fit by design. As it starts to get flush, use your custom bearing driver socket and tap it home.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zps0c55ebbb.jpg)
Nothing to it..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zpsf2ccc0eb.jpg)
Might as well put some more parts back on it while we're here. Never reuse cotter pins. Like anything with tits, wheels, or wings, it'll cause you grief sooner or later.. ;D A little Marvel Mystery oil will wick in and not attract dirt. A dab of grease on the clutch pushrod and adjuster, and we'll call this end done.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps7b448e41.jpg)
 :wife: "I saw you bringing the camera in. You aren't out there playing with the Lario instead of working are you??" "No, boss, I'm earning my $40 a week and 3 beers.. just doing some stuff while the machine runs.." ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zpsc2c4eaa8.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Unkept on February 18, 2013, 11:48:41 AM
Looking good Chuck. Thanks for that tutorial/product review. I'll see what I can find at the store..

Also, putting the bearing in the freezer... duh!  ;D I would've just hit the rear drive with a heat gun to make it expand before I put the bearing in.  :)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: dl.allen on February 18, 2013, 12:13:46 PM
Chuck, love the build thread. 

Question, how do you measure the valve guide specs?  I see the pic on page one showing a caliper?

Thanks
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 18, 2013, 03:33:33 PM
Chuck, love the build thread. 

Question, how do you measure the valve guide specs?  I see the pic on page one showing a caliper?

Thanks

Thanks! Glad someone is getting something out of it. That's a micrometer. The other gizmo is a small hole gauge. You can adjust it until it has a slight drag in the bore. There's an acquired feel to using this stuff.. ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 18, 2013, 05:35:49 PM
Yeah, finding that out!  LOL  I figure expensive valves are cheap insurance.  :BEER:

Especially on a project like yours, the best *is* none too good. You are in untraveled waters.  ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 18, 2013, 05:42:46 PM
Looking good Chuck. Thanks for that tutorial/product review. I'll see what I can find at the store..

Also, putting the bearing in the freezer... duh!  ;D I would've just hit the rear drive with a heat gun to make it expand before I put the bearing in.  :)

Of course, that would have worked, too. Or a combination of both. Bearing fits are normally only around .001/.002" interference, so it isn't a fussy job. It's real easy to just throw them in the freezer...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 19, 2013, 07:42:38 PM
Patina? We gots it.  ;D In spades..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-17_zps86535da1.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps15684153.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps7c7d97ff.jpg)
This is a little more serious. I bought a can of Chevrolet orange/red on the off chance it would match. Close, but no cigar.. so off to the paint store.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zpsddf16721.jpg)
Talked to the kid.. why is it always a kid any more?  ;D about what system to use, and decided on an enamel with hardener. Here, he's using the computer gizmo to get the color match..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps2413cead.jpg)
He said a pint would do what I need to do, and mixed it up. When he brought it out, we both agreed that it looked too orange. He called his mom.. ;D :BEER: I feel better.. and she took it away and mixed in some more color.
$62 and change later,  :o I have enough stuff to paint a frame rail and the tail piece. I'm certainly glad that airplane paint is cheap by comparison.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps31e3c901.jpg)
It's a slippery slope from here.  ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpse53212cf.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 20, 2013, 12:14:38 AM
Have you rhough about glass blasting those rails. I just have that done to a pair. Makes the paint stick well to them. Cheap too - if you know the shop owner  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 20, 2013, 05:57:05 AM
Have you rhough about glass blasting those rails. I just have that done to a pair. Makes the paint stick well to them. Cheap too - if you know the shop owner  ;D

Yeah, I'll do that. I know the boss of this operation in the biblical sense.  :o;D I just sanded the bad part to see how bad it is.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 20, 2013, 11:16:46 AM
Well, you have to give Guzzi credit for having some tenacious paint on the valve covers. My bead blast media wasn't going to get it off in my lifetime.. ;D This is the second application of aircraft paint stripper. I made some quicky paint scrapers out of hard plastic, and went at it. Some of the work in cleaning up an old machine isn't too glamorous...
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps41f64021.jpg)
A couple of hours later, we're much closer. My 30 year old Monkey Grips  ::) kept the skin grafts at bay.. and are as stiff and difficult to use as always.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps49a2487a.jpg)
I hear the lunch whistle blowing. I'll put one more application on, and let them sit through lunch. Glad it isn't a V8! ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 20, 2013, 12:09:14 PM
Interesting on those.  We simply buffed mine on a good buffing wheel and they came out shiny alum.  Clear-coated and called it good.  Maybe mine had been tampered with, but I seem to remember them being whitish.  Don't know.  Looks good.
-Kevin   
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Tobit on February 20, 2013, 03:49:12 PM
It took a wire wheel and a lot of patience to get the deep blue powder coat off of my LeMans IV rocker covers.  The commercial shop that blasted the wheels bare said pretty much the same thing about the OEM red.  That it was the toughest PC removal job he'd ever run up against.

Tobit
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Ronkom on February 20, 2013, 04:05:06 PM
Looking good Chuck, enjoying the thread, learning a lot.
As the thread is being followed by a group interested in the daily rider type restoration, Here's a testimonial. I just finished up an '85 LeMans IV that had lived outside long enough to badly fade the red paint, actually causing the decals on the plastic parts to dry up & curl. I went shopping for some ultra fine rubbing compound. Based on good experience with other Meguiar's products I decided to try:

  Meguiar's ULTIMATE compound color & clarity restorer

 Boys, this stuff REALLY worked for me. I now have a VaBRIBS (Virginia Bright Red Italian Bug Swatter) I did a small section on the hood of the Nissan pup, the difference in appearance and feel (sliding the fingers from the untreated to the treated section) was amazing. I will be using it on the whole truck when (if) the weather ever gives us a break.
Ron Komoroski

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 20, 2013, 07:01:11 PM
Thanks, Ron.. although I doubt you'll learn much from me. I've seen your work.  ;D I'll second you on the Ultimate compound. When Brad and I picked up Rosie, she was in poor shape. The previous owner apparently just... didn't...care. There were even silver paint droplets all over that beautiful tank. Brad used to be a pro painter, and after looking at it said, "I can fix that." We went to the local Autozone, and he started opening various compounds and rubbing it between his fingers. He'd always used pro stuff, and didn't know what the consumer chemicals were like. When he got to the Ultimate, he said, "This will do."  ;D We picked up a couple of pads for my buffer, and an hour or so later, Rosie was glowing.  ;-T I applied a couple of coats of Zaino, and she said she looked better than she had in years. ;D :BEER:
I spent a good part of the day getting the paint off these valve covers. (!!) Whatever they used was tough. I finally finished by bead blasting them. Didn't want to, but that was what it was going to take to clean them up. Washed and rinsed them twice in hot soapy water, and asked Dorcia if she minded putting them in the dish washer.  :o She said, "Sure, but let me run this load of dirty dishes, you wouldn't want to get food on them."  ;D ;D She's a keeper.  ;-T Here they are in the drainer waiting their turn..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps366d928a.jpg)
Added a wipe of filler and block sanded the tail piece.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps53c549d4.jpg)
It's too cold to paint, so I'll have to find something else to do tomorrow.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 22, 2013, 06:49:14 PM
One problem with the small blocks, I understand, is if they grenade a u joint it takes out the transmission casting. Guzzi builds the motorcycle around that casting, and you don't want to lose it.  ;D One of the listers sent me the dimensions of a steel sleeve to fit into the casting, so while it's too cold to paint, I thought I'd make one. Ran to the local muffler shop and got a piece of stainless muffler tubing that is pretty close to the I.D. and O.D. of the piece. There's no way that a chuck could hold it, though, so I make a slug out of plastic I had laying around.. I have *lots* of plastic laying around. This stuff is pretty soft, and not the best choice. Steel or aluminum or hard plastic would have been better, but I'm a firm believer in "run whatcha brung."  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zpsc93722c3.jpg)
Drive that sucker into the tubing, and you have something that a 3 jaw chuck can hold.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps7a03d8f6.jpg)
Chucked it into my antique LeBlonde Regal lathe.. There is a reoccurring thing with antique here.. but my modern toy lathe wouldn't begin to do this job. It's a pleasure to run this old sucker. It does everything a new lathe will do except cut those sissy metric threads.  ~; ;D :BEER:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zpsca77b7f4.jpg)
Strangely enough, the taper is right, but there's no way that the sleeve will go all the way in. Hmmmm. When you first fail to succeed, give up. No need making a fool of yourself. ;) Deburred, cut the excess off, and threw it in the freezer. Tomorrow I'll drive it home and call this job done.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpse097e405.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 22, 2013, 09:35:03 PM
Chuck... what about the rest of us?  :P
You realize you just became the purveyor of U-joint guards for the sb's.  :bow  Name your cost! 

Nice work!  ;-T
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: John Ulrich on February 22, 2013, 11:08:30 PM
I applied a couple of coats of Zaino

Zaino....... You're using the good stuff.  Save some for the daily drivers!   ;-T 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 23, 2013, 06:59:38 AM
Chuck... what about the rest of us?  :P
You realize you just became the purveyor of U-joint guards for the sb's.  :bow  Name your cost! 

Nice work!  ;-T
-Kevin

Kevin.. there would be some development involved to make sure that one size would fit all. I made this one to the dimensions Morizi gave me, and it was too big in diameter. Once you cut if off the blank, there's no way that you can make it smaller.. you have to make another. Why didn't it fit? Dunno. According to how much was sticking out, I'd guess it needs to be .012/.013" smaller in diameter. Differences in paint thickness? Wear on the mold? Maybe different molds? Dunno again. Besides that.. I'm *not* looking for work. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 23, 2013, 07:30:07 AM
I know Chuck, just yankin' your chain. You're retired and futsen with bikes and planes. Is there anything better?  Enjoy yourself.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 23, 2013, 03:56:37 PM
Zaino....... You're using the good stuff.  Save some for the daily drivers!   ;-T 

Zaino rox. I had some on my Red MINI for two years that was still beading water. ;-T Not cheap (Guzzi content) or particularly easy to use.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 23, 2013, 04:36:58 PM
Zaino rox. I had some on my Red MINI for two years that was still beading water. ;-T Not cheap (Guzzi content) or particularly easy to use.
I've got to ask.  How do you apply? Buffer or by hand?
K
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 23, 2013, 04:57:54 PM
I've got to ask.  How do you apply? Buffer or by hand?
K

First, you wash everything with Dawn to get old wax, etc off. Second, clay bar with Dawn/water. Third, mix the first coat's hardener in and apply that. Windows, and all. Doesn't matter if you get it on rubber or places you normally try to keep wax off. Forth, mix the second coat's hardener and apply. Same deal. No swirling motion on any of this stuff. Then apply the gloss enhancer. It'll take all afternoon to do a car.. ;D busting your buns. It gives a deep "wet" look.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 24, 2013, 04:37:38 PM
Here's the steel sleeve installed. Will it work? Hope I don't have to find out. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/014_zpsc112bd22.jpg)
It's still too cold to bring my temporary paint booth up to temperature, so I thought I'd do some other stuff. Remember the master cylinder that needed rebuilt? Opened the package of the rebuild kit, and the instructions were worse than bad. Bad would have been a poor translation. It's in about 20 languages, and is for another cylinder.  ::) I did a search here on WG, and found Charilie's instructions, which I'll repeat here, in case someone finds this thread with a search.
Quote
The seal fits into the metal securing ring, tapered edge pointed towards the outside. Put the seal into the metal ring first (ring goes with the largest o.d. outwards), slip the washer onto the piston, then the seal/ring assy. Use a deep-well socket (I used a 14mm) to seat the ring into the master cylinder body.
I'll add some pix to illustrate..
The new piston comes assembled with just the dust seal and a washer to be put on one end, and the spring and spring retainer on the other. Slide the washer on here..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps7f07018f.jpg)
Shouldn't have used the flash, but you can see how Charlie's instructions work. Just assemble it like he said..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps9d0a762e.jpg)
And here it is ready to be installed into the cylinder. Put *some* of the included spooge on the rubber rings for lubrication. No need to make a mess.. ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zpsad749a14.jpg)
Slide it into the bore, and stake it with the special Guzzi Tool, a 14mm deep well socket.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps1dd460cc.jpg)
Easy as pie. You can see where the dust seal is staked here.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zpscadb8d22.jpg)
Ok, bask in the warm feeling of another job well done  ;D and throw it on the done pile, too.
Time for some more grunt work. Might as well get some of the other parts cleaned up and ready for paint. I picked up a couple of rear pegs off the bay, and I can make two good ones out of the 4 I have, now. The starter has had battery acid dribbling on it, and needs some paint. The battery tray has the usual rust for the same reason.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016-1_zps27113bd5.jpg)
Decided to bead blast and chromate the battery tray..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/018_zps7d606a5a.jpg)
Warmed up the paint booth to about 50, carried it in, and zinc chromated it. This stuff is what is used to keep airplane tubing from rusting, and the old Guzzi racers used it, too. Naturally, I love this color.  ;D Just because it comes out of a rattle can, don't even **think** of spraying it without a respirator. Trust me on this. Gave it a couple of quick coats, and brought it back in the shop to dry at 68 degrees.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/019_zpsce33e475.jpg)
Covered a couple of pieces of plywood with masking paper, and used red Scotch brite to finish prepping the tail piece and frame rail. Notice how the valve covers changed color in the dishwasher?  ;D Wonder what's up with that? Probably one of those things that's not meant to be understood...
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zpscd5e5d65.jpg)

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 24, 2013, 04:53:37 PM
I took a valve cover in to the auto paint place, and found this for $5 a can. I bought two.. ;D Supposedly good to 500 degrees, and a really close match.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040425_zps67446e80.jpg)

That looks like the shade I need for the "Austrian Rock Crusher" (Rotax engine) in my CCM. Mind sharing what the label on the cans says?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 24, 2013, 07:13:41 PM
That looks like the shade I need for the "Austrian Rock Crusher" (Rotax engine) in my CCM. Mind sharing what the label on the cans says?

Sure can, Charlie.. DE1650 Cast coat aluminum. Bear in mind that it turned out darker than the can lid. There are pix earlier on in this thread that show a pretty representative color. When I was in town this week, looking for their hi temp primer to do the valve covers, I saw a "Metallic" in about this color. If I'd seen it before, I probably would have tried that.. it might be lighter.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 24, 2013, 07:24:44 PM
Sure can, Charlie.. DE1650 Cast coat aluminum. Bear in mind that it turned out darker than the can lid. There are pix earlier on in this thread that show a pretty representative color. When I was in town this week, looking for their hi temp primer to do the valve covers, I saw a "Metallic" in about this color. If I'd seen it before, I probably would have tried that.. it might be lighter.

Thanks! I might buy a can of each, shoot a sample piece and see which matches best.  ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on February 25, 2013, 03:34:46 AM
Kevin.. there would be some development involved to make sure that one size would fit all. I made this one to the dimensions Morizi gave me, and it was too big in diameter. Once you cut if off the blank, there's no way that you can make it smaller.. you have to make another. Why didn't it fit? Dunno. According to how much was sticking out, I'd guess it needs to be .012/.013" smaller in diameter. Differences in paint thickness? Wear on the mold? Maybe different molds? Dunno again. Besides that.. I'm *not* looking for work. ;D

Sorry Chuck,

Should have mentioned that the sleeve measurements fitted one bike Ok and was too tight for the other. I must admit I put it down to machining variances on the sleeves at the time. I had them made as I don't have a lathe.

It was that long ago I can't even remember which one fitted easily and which one didn't. I have an 81 and an 89.

I did try and make them 'tight.'  :o I've seen a few gearbox casings that have suffered a failure.  There isn't a whole lot of spare room in the output port around the U-joint and so to optimise the wall thickness I squeezed in as much as I could. The easiest thing to do is to make them just a bit loose I guess and use something like RTV silicone to hold them in place. The front of the taper would be pretty thin.

Glad its in there.

Rod

Still, you got it in and as you state, hopefully it will be a complete waste of time.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 25, 2013, 05:54:01 AM
Quote
I have an 81 and an 89.

Ahhh, that explains it. No doubt, the 81 was the one it fit. As a mold is polished when serviced, the core half will get smaller over time. I tried to measure, of course, but it's difficult to get an accurate measurement up at the small end. It tapers at a faster rate in the last 1/4" or so. I should have gone with my gut feeling, but was just lazy.  ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 25, 2013, 01:23:18 PM
This is one hot thread!  Open brain... insert knowledge.  ;-T
Thanks again Chuck.
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 26, 2013, 01:45:50 PM
Thanks, Kevin.. ;D
The way to get a project done is to do *something* every day. Brought out the rattle can..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zpsd08f4e37.jpg)
A rattle can is capable of doing a perfectly adequate job, if the job isn't too big.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpse442ab26.jpg)
Black stuff on the done pile..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zpsb6bca71b.jpg)
Got the red pieces primed, but ran out of time to paint them. I'm not making work out of this... they'll wait until it warms up again.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps8c60420f.jpg)
Decided to play a little today. I'm tired of cleaning, etc. so torqued the heads for the last time, 30 ft. lbs. on the big nuts and 25 on the small. Adjusted the valves, and the engine should be ready.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsec50f81c.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 27, 2013, 05:49:35 AM
Waiting to hear you describe that first roar  ;-T  Looking real good ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: huub on February 27, 2013, 08:35:25 AM
your lario is going to be way too pretty to ride :D

anybody tried porting lario heads?
just came across nice pictures of ported lario heads with 36 and even38 mm ports on a german forum.
bigger carbs sounds like a good idea, i was thinking of a pair of 32 mmPHF's for my lario.  36 mm might be a bit overdone?

just took the valve covers off my lario, it has single valve springs but no lash caps.
so probably has got some of the factory mods
( it should , it is unlikely to have lasted 59.000 kmin stock form.)
removing the valve cover was easy , half the bolt holes had absolutel no thread left.
the covers were basically glued in place  :-[
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 27, 2013, 08:47:31 AM
Stripped threads for the valve cover bolts are common.
You need to time sert them or similar. Be carefull NOT to drill through to the next cooling fin - then you'll have an oil leak issue  :o

Both the Nevada and other progressive springs are single wire - so are the stock spring  :o Assessment is needed  ;D
I assume you know how to make a valve mod for normal riding - cam skaft needs a check too  ;)


...or you could pull a Kevin and go for the race version with DLC cams/tappets - Kipple W. valves - new con rods, the works - caution - the front wheel will not stay down  8)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 27, 2013, 09:31:26 AM
Stripped threads for the valve cover bolts are common.
You need to time sert them or similar. Be carefull NOT to drill through to the next cooling fin - then you'll have an oil leak issue  :o

/quote]

Hmmm... hate how the shop did that when Heli-coiling mine.  >:(
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 27, 2013, 10:49:28 AM
Quote
your lario is going to be way too pretty to ride Cheesy

Thanks, but believe me.. it'll be *plenty* rough enough to ride.  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Tobit on February 27, 2013, 10:56:27 AM
This is great.  Excellent idea and execution on the U-joint shield.  About the rocker covers changing color in the dishwasher, I tried Naval Jelly on my Monza covers once and they turned black when rinsed off with a hose. 

Tobit.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 27, 2013, 10:58:37 AM
Waiting to hear you describe that first roar  ;-T  Looking real good ;-T

Well, it's bound to run, Brian.. all the parts are in it..  ;D Millennium's break in instructions are weird, though. They say let it idle for 15 minutes on initial start up.. :o I'm going to have to think about that.  I have two box fans, but wonder if that is enough?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 27, 2013, 12:22:32 PM
Well, it's bound to run, Brian.. all the parts are in it..  ;D Millennium's break in instructions are weird, though. They say let it idle for 15 minutes on initial start up.. :o I'm going to have to think about that.  I have two box fans, but wonder if that is enough?
Good time to do that now with the fans on high.  How well-done does it need to be??  Maybe a water-cooled bike.
-K
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 27, 2013, 12:35:18 PM
Well, it's bound to run, Brian.. all the parts are in it..  ;D Millennium's break in instructions are weird, though. They say let it idle for 15 minutes on initial start up.. :o I'm going to have to think about that.  I have two box fans, but wonder if that is enough?

Chuck
Did you remember the stem caps on the valves?
You are using the short clearense adjustment screws it seems from the pic, right?

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsec50f81c.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 27, 2013, 05:07:06 PM
Chuck
Did you remember the stem caps on the valves?
You are using the short clearense adjustment screws it seems from the pic, right?

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsec50f81c.jpg)

Lash caps, yes. These are the screws that were on it. They seem ok to me. (?)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 27, 2013, 05:25:01 PM
Well, today is the big day to paint the red. What could possibly go wrong? After all, I'm using a paint system that I've never used, and a gun that I've never used, either.  ;D ;D
Wiped down the tailpiece with my grease and wax remover, and it wasn't compatible with the primer. :o Yuck, what a mess. Ran to town and got a different primer. Sanded, primed, sanded, primed, etc. waiting 30 minutes between doing all this. Spent a good part of the day..
This is the first time that I've had this problem, but I'm a rookie painter. It's worked with all the aircraft coatings I've used. <shrug>
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zpsc4a4adfd.jpg)
While I was at the paint store, I bought a new roll of 2" masking tape..$10  :o ;D Masked off the Guzzi, put up a piece of poster board on the paint booth wall, practiced a bit, and did the valve cover.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps75c68145.jpg)
Seemed simple enough, brought the tailpiece and frame rail in, and shot that.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpsec5053cd.jpg)
Unfortunately, it turned out freakin gorgeous, and the rest of the bodywork will look pale in comparison.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps5323b40a.jpg)
Almost broke my arm patting myself on the back for a job well done, but you know what they say about pride coming before a fall? ;D After the red was dust free, I took that stuff out to the (warm) shop to cure and brought in the valve covers to paint the silver. Remember when I said you would have to be careful with this paint or it would run right off onto the floor? I'd sprayed the 2 light coats, and when I started to spray the final one, I saw a sag.  ::) It has been getting colder all day, and I hadn't noticed that the paint booth had dropped under 60 degrees.
Nothing to do but wait for a week to sand it out and spray the last coat. At least, the red looks good, and I can start reassembly. ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zpsd5a9e63c.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on February 27, 2013, 05:44:55 PM
That red is Luscious ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 27, 2013, 06:02:32 PM
That red is Luscious ;-T

Yeah, it is. I may have to enlist a *real* painter (my kid, Brad) and do the bodywork. It's a slippery slope when you start painting stuff.  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on February 27, 2013, 08:54:51 PM
Don't I know it :o It starts when you find some little thing to fix and before you know, it has multiplied in to a Project :'(
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on February 28, 2013, 02:26:10 AM
Lash caps, yes. These are the screws that were on it. They seem ok to me. (?)

They are  :)  Yamaha have some that will plug and play. The contact area is bigger, hense they may last longer, but that may be for a later upgrade  ;)

Part number is (Yamaha)         2NX-12159-00-00   8

Cheers
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Dick on February 28, 2013, 04:09:19 AM
Great thread, Chuck! Thanks for sharing  ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 28, 2013, 07:00:27 AM
Great thread, Chuck! Thanks for sharing  ;-T

Thank you, Dick. I appreciate someone with your expertise looking in.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 28, 2013, 09:52:43 AM
The moment of truth.  ;D I wanted to save the moto guzzi decal on the back of the tail piece, as I haven't found it. I looked for the complete set, but it is NLA, if it ever was..
At any rate, here we go.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zpsda064892.jpg)
The (experienced) lady that took over for the kid and his computer did a *nice* color match.. ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps52e015c6.jpg)
Couldn't stand it, pulled the tape and carefully sanded with 400 paper wet..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps071a2776.jpg)
Who makes that? ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps09da2920.jpg)
Luigi had buffed them, so it isn't completely flat, I'll probably have to buff them, too. You can see some shading where the primer hasn't sanded off, yet. I'll have to be careful, or I'll be taking paint off the bumps that clear the valve train. It's getting to be the fun stuff, now. ;D

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: John Ulrich on February 28, 2013, 11:34:27 AM
First, you wash everything with Dawn to get old wax, etc off. Second, clay bar with Dawn/water. Third, mix the first coat's hardener in and apply that. Windows, and all. Doesn't matter if you get it on rubber or places you normally try to keep wax off. Forth, mix the second coat's hardener and apply. Same deal. No swirling motion on any of this stuff. Then apply the gloss enhancer. It'll take all afternoon to do a car.. ;D busting your buns. It gives a deep "wet" look.

Let's back up from the fine painting presentation for a second and talk Zaino application times.
You only need to mix your hardeners in if you want to do multiple coats in a day which Chuck is doing.    I'll clay bar once in the spring.  My bimonthly program is... using their AOI (All in One) with a dual action buffer (Flex is my favorite).....45 minutes max to do a minivan.  If I'm feeling anal ... I'll drop on a coat of Z2 or Z5....10 minutes max on a minivan.  Like Chuck said, your just spreading it on as thin as you can, no rubbing.   I'll use the Z-CS Clear Seal a month later between the AOI applications...... if I'm feeling quilty.   
Zaino is the longest lasting sealant (not wax) for the price.  There are some new "coatings" on the market.  I'm going to try one out on a set of wheels in the spring.  The price for half a shot glass worth is an eye opener but I'll be a guinea pig.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 28, 2013, 04:36:56 PM
Here's a "gotcha". You have to have the brake lever inside bushing installed before installing the frame rails. All that careful aligning and loc tite all for naught. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zps87c883de.jpg)
Looks a little better than it did..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps0253e083.jpg)
Back on "the box". With any luck at all, it will look like a motorcycle again tomorrow.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/015_zps937a2e8a.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: mwrenn on February 28, 2013, 10:55:59 PM
Man!  Looking good!!!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 28, 2013, 11:45:05 PM
Very sharp Chuck. Colors look great. You doing the wheels?
K
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 01, 2013, 07:07:05 AM
Very sharp Chuck. Colors look great. You doing the wheels?
K

Nope, the wheels look good. I'll have to do the front rotors, though..
edit to add picture.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 01, 2013, 05:39:17 PM
Like I've said before, if you want to get a project done, do something every day.  ;D A short day, today, but productive. The u joint boot looked ok, and re installed it with a small fight from the c clip. It realized I was serious at about the third try and gave up and fell into the groove. ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps284a4571.jpg)
Might as well clean up the rear wheel while it's off. Super Clean and water gives a wet look...
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps93eae57b.jpg)
This is the best spooge I've found for splines. There may be a better spline lube available, but you can be sure that the next time you go in, it will still be there. ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpsd989881a.jpg)
So put that stuff on the transmission output shaft, in the u joint splines, and on the drive splines, and install the driveshaft.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps1697af89.jpg)
Put the spacer that I said to not forget a few weeks ago.. ;) on the D side, slide the swing arm on, put some anti seize on the special bolts and.. uh oh.  :o I had noticed that the S side came out hard when taking it apart, and no matter how I fiddled with it, it wanted to cross thread. Not a good thing. On a big block, if these threads get boogered up, you lose the frame. :o Of course, they are steel and not as easy to do that. You *only* lose the swing arm on a small block, still....
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zps81097de0.jpg)
So, I took it back apart, cleaned the threads, saw that without a tap that is probably not readily available.. "Houston..we have a problem."  ;) Fortunately, the threads go all the way through, so I ran the fastener in from the back side, cleaned, ran a stainless steel toothbrush in, turning it to follow the threads, cleaned, and let the bolt cold form the threads back to where they should be. Three times. After that, the pin started normally.  Dodged a bullet, there.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps19a116b9.jpg)
Might as well clean up the jam nuts. BTW, these shop towels come from the hospital. **Guzzi content** they are FREE.  ;D They are used in the surgical theater, and sent out to the laundry. After a few times, someone decides they are "used" and throws them away. Available in the hospital dumpster, if you know a nurse, etc. ;D If you can get past the thought that Eldo Jon's spleen has been laying on them, they are excellent shop rags.. lint free, and FREE. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps1b9431ff.jpg)
Purdy, ain't it?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zpsa261c7fc.jpg)
The driveshaft coupler has a E ring in the middle with a plate that rests against it. The spring at the end of the driveshaft pushes against this to keep the coupler on the proper area of the drive box splines. On the other small block I worked on ( I said I'm an amateur Guzzi mech..) it was installed backwards, doing nothing.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps9405c727.jpg)
 So spooge up everything, put the coupler on the drive box, angle the nose of it downward, and push it home. You may need to turn the drive box output a little to get all this to align.
Tighten the nuts finger tight.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/014_zps8b8d819d.jpg)
The only way I've found to get the wheel on is to use the axle to align things, turn the wheel until the rubber and drive nibs line up, and push.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016-1_zps7974279e.jpg)
After that, you can remove the axle, grease it liberally, don't forget the dust cover, and drive it home with a rubber hammer. Torque the big nut "until you fart" according to VDG,  ;D or around 80 ft. lbs. Tighten the axle pinch bolt, *then* tighten the 4 acorn nuts that hold the drive box to the swing arm. This assures that everything is in proper alignment.
Be still, my beating heart...  ;D ;-T I love the Guzzi engineering solution. Very "pretty" to my eyes.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/020_zpsc6d2ffe6.jpg)
edit for errors of omission and commission.. twice  ;D



Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on March 01, 2013, 09:33:01 PM
  ditto "very pretty" and Exciting too ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on March 02, 2013, 12:44:43 AM
So nice chuck ;-T
Great work - that little bugger was lucky to have you as its next owner.
You just extended her life another 30 years or more  ;-T
...and then her value will start ricing ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: JPL on March 02, 2013, 01:55:55 AM
Lots of familiar stuff here, Chuck. The PO of my V50II used lawn tractor batteries. Among other things the acid ate the frame paint, stained the castings, leaked into the swing arm bearing and froze one of the jamb nuts to it's pin. I had to cut that nut off. Also had similar 'sketchy feeling' starting that pin in; cleaned up the threads pretty much how you did. ;-T


   
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: JPL on March 02, 2013, 02:27:30 AM

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zps81097de0.jpg)

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zpsa261c7fc.jpg)



As you've found, the swing arm and lower frame rail interfere. Put a towel in there.  :) ;-T


 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 02, 2013, 09:15:05 AM
That thing looks too purdy to go back on the road.   ;-T 
Looks like you're enjoying semi-retirement.
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 02, 2013, 11:09:28 AM
That thing looks too purdy to go back on the road.   ;-T 
Looks like you're enjoying semi-retirement.
-Kevin


Thanks, but the pictures make it look better than it is. It *will* look better than when I started, though. And, yes, retirement is the best job I've ever had. ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: growler on March 02, 2013, 01:58:23 PM
I'm following this with great interest...
I've just recently picked up an '86 lario that's gonna need serious work and your excellently documented thread will be a great reference for me. I'll have a lot of tech questions once I've pulled the motor apart, but I won't clog up your thread with them right now, I'll start one of my own when the time comes. Keep up the great work, it's a pleasure to read.  ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 02, 2013, 04:24:53 PM
I'm following this with great interest...
I've just recently picked up an '86 lario that's gonna need serious work and your excellently documented thread will be a great reference for me. I'll have a lot of tech questions once I've pulled the motor apart, but I won't clog up your thread with them right now, I'll start one of my own when the time comes. Keep up the great work, it's a pleasure to read.  ;-T

Thanks for that, and welcome to WG.. We need more Lario nutters.  ;D I've mentioned before on this thread that when I first got a small block, I didn't find much of this kind of thing on the web, so if someone finds this thread, and it is of use to them, I'm happy.  ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 02, 2013, 04:47:43 PM
Time to start making it back into a motorcycle. Wheelbarrowed it back over the "propulsor unit" installed frame bolts (some new) with blue thread locker, and had something we can roll around again. Rolled the engine assembly cabinet back into the hanger and brought the lift back in. Backed the Lario on to that so we can eventually pull the front end off, and started putting pieces/parts back on.
No, I never even considered painting the frame.  ;D Beyond here lies madness.. ;D :BEER:
Notice that Guzzi hid a couple of ground wires behind the master cylinder.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps065c6bb2.jpg)
Not noticing these would no doubt cause a guy some grief. Take a stainless steel toothbrush and brighten up the back of the master cylider mounts and the ground wire eyelets. Some new toothed washers and Vaseline are the order of the day. As an aside, a couple of drops of brake fluid landed on the swing arm during this operation and left their mark.  ::) If I were to do it over again, I'd probably spring the big bux and get a 2 part enamel to paint the drive train. Live and learn..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps50a90b0b.jpg)
Continue putting parts back where you found them.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zps0a2bbd45.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zps08cd1c30.jpg)
And we'll be ready to tackle the forks and brake rotors.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps2befa86b.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Pizza Guzzi on March 02, 2013, 11:02:03 PM
Luigi would be tearing his hair out if he saw these pics - you've used enough grease on one bike for an entire years production from the factory  ;D

Looking fantastic - I wish I had the ability to do what you're doing.

Glenn.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: RaananC on March 03, 2013, 05:08:53 AM
Really enjoyed following the project. But, you have put so much effort in painting the engine and other parts so, why not repainting the frame and the wheels as well?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 03, 2013, 06:26:32 AM
Really enjoyed following the project. But, you have put so much effort in painting the engine and other parts so, why not repainting the frame and the wheels as well?

The wheels actually look good, but there is no stopping when you do that sort of thing. I did paint the one frame rail that was nasty, probably should have painted both. <shrug> Painting the frame? Easier said than done. Now we're talking a complete strip and restoration, which this *isn't*.  ;D
Here's the scenario:
Since we have the wiring off of it, might as well put all new wiring on it.  Once you do that, all the body work needs painted, and well, the instruments refreshed, and oh, the hand controls are worn. Darn, this seat doesn't look good enough..and can't have these worn foot pegs. Boy! This thing is really looking good, now..  :drool Except for this exhaust.. need everything new there.  :wife: "The phone just rang, and you've maxed out your plastic.." This bike is too far gone to even consider a restoration, IMHO. It's going to be a rider.
Glad you're following along... ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: RaananC on March 03, 2013, 07:43:38 AM
The wheels actually look good, but there is no stopping when you do that sort of thing. I did paint the one frame rail that was nasty, probably should have painted both. <shrug> Painting the frame? Easier said than done. Now we're talking a complete strip and restoration, which this *isn't*.  ;D
Here's the scenario:
Since we have the wiring off of it, might as well put all new wiring on it.  Once you do that, all the body work needs painted, and well, the instruments refreshed, and oh, the hand controls are worn. Darn, this seat doesn't look good enough..and can't have these worn foot pegs. Boy! This thing is really looking good, now..  :drool Except for this exhaust.. need everything new there.  :wife: "The phone just rang, and you've maxed out your plastic.." This bike is too far gone to even consider a restoration, IMHO. It's going to be a rider.
Glad you're following along... ;D

First, restoration doesn't mean it won't be a rider. Personally I don't like the idea or doing all that work and at the end putting the bike as a vase in the living room.
Second, I said it because you already disassembled it to pieces.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Offcamber1 on March 03, 2013, 09:03:04 AM
I get what RaananC is saying, but I get Chuck's point as well.  Back 20 years or so I had a 69 Rocket III that I made the mistake of tearing apart down to the frame.  I got as far as the frame and tinwork being repainted (nice job btw) and then started adding up the cost to really do the restoration correctly.  Staggered by the price of completing the bike correctly, I traded it in boxes for a complete running Triumph T100.

I should have never taken the R III apart.  I still miss it.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: lucky phil on March 03, 2013, 09:14:45 AM
Really enjoyed following the project. But, you have put so much effort in painting the engine and other parts so, why not repainting the frame and the wheels as well?
Because its a Lario and barely worth the cost of the engine paint and stripper. geez you'll be expecting him to use new oil in the engine as well I suppose.
Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 03, 2013, 09:18:33 AM
First, restoration doesn't mean it won't be a rider. Personally I don't like the idea or doing all that work and at the end putting the bike as a vase in the living room.
Second, I said it because you already disassembled it to pieces.

Quote
Because its a Lario and barely worth the cost of the engine paint and stripper. geez you'll be expecting him to use new oil in the engine as well I suppose.
Ciao

New oil??? Crazy talk.. ;)

From page one.. ;D
Quote from: Carlo DeSantis on November 27, 2012, 11:15:41 AM
I look forward to following your progress, Chuck.

History tells me you're going to crank out another winner!

Carlo

Thanks, Carlo, but this one is too far gone for a complete restoration. I'd have *way* more money in it than it would ever be worth, and after all.. I'm one of those cheap small block guys that Charlie mentioned.. Grin Grin I'm just trying to get it in good mechanical order and presentable.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 04, 2013, 05:06:14 PM
Today is all about tools. There are times that you just have to have em. Why is it that when I pick up one any more it's 50 years old, or more?? :o  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps034a7662.jpg)
Here's another of about the same age..
I used to have a Yamaha street bike and a Bultaco dirt bike, and one of them (don't remember which) had seemingly pot metal screws. I got tired of rounding out the cross of Phillips head screws and spent the big bucks (for me, at that time) on this impact driver. It came with a couple of common and a couple of Phillips screwdrivers.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zpsaab57f06.jpg)
When Rosie need a new rear rotor, I milled this out of a 5/16" Allen wrench. Terrible picture, but it is .002" oversize on the hex so it gets a good bite on the screw head. Fits my antique impact driver.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zpsd57bcf77.jpg)
Alrighty, let's fire up this booger. The hottest part of the flame is the point of the cone closest to the nozzle..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps193672a9.jpg)
Thread locker melts somewhere between 300-425 Degrees, F. depending on which one is used, IIRC. Don't even consider trying to remove these button head screws without the proper tools. You *won't* get it done.  ;D You might think about where the heat is going. No need to burn the paint off of the wheels.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zpseeb1947f.jpg)
After 3 or 4 minutes, put the impact driver on it, hold torque on the driver as if you were trying to loosen the screw,  and give it a big smack with the copper hammer. You *do* have a copper hammer, don't you? One of the reasons I still have the original propane tank, is that I decided I wanted to build an airplane and rented an oxy acetylene rig. For years. And years. ;D What a racket. At any rate, I haven't used this little propane setup much since. It took me a half hour to get the first rotor off with it.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps1a989899.jpg)
Decided to drag the welding rig over, put a small tip on it, and had some *serious* heat available. Don't try this at home, professional use only..you can seriously screw stuff up with a lot of heat..  ;D ;D Took the other side off faster than I can tell about it.
Oh, look. The Lario's second piece of bling. Motorcycle Superstore sent me a closeout flyer with free shipping. I was wanting to get some fork gaiters. Naturally, on closeout the black was sold out, but they had a gaudy red.  ;D Pretty close match *and* made in the USA. ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zpsb07b4506.jpg)
Here's another place where only the proper tool will do. You can screw an Allen wrench here until the cows come home, and you won't get this cap screw out. Put an impact wrench on it and it just zips off.  ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsef2feaa6.jpg)
Now we can paint these nasty looking things.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zps8d69dd9e.jpg)
edit for typo
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 04, 2013, 10:17:20 PM
My rotors came right off both sides.  Call me lucky.  When you bolt them up they may not sit so straight.  Be prepared to adjust the buttons a bit til there is no rubbing on the pads.  
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 05, 2013, 06:48:33 AM
My rotors came right off both sides.  Call me lucky.  When you bolt them up they may not sit so straight.  Be prepared to adjust the buttons a bit til there is no rubbing on the pads.  
-Kevin

Ok, Lucky.  ;D I could have taken the head off those bolts with the impact driver without them budging. Maybe someone else had them off and didn't use any loc tite on reassembly? <shrug> Or Luigi forgot? ;) :BEER:
Adjust the buttons? <scratching head>
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Gregory Bender on March 05, 2013, 07:07:48 AM
On my Suzuki dirt bike, I could not get enough heat into my button-head bolt heads with a propane torch (even after minutes of directed heat). So, I welded on some low-quality wrenches I had been needing throw away, anyway. I had plenty of heat penetration and leverage then: the bolts turned right out.

Of course, I could have welded nuts on top of the bolt heads, but I didn't want to waste any of my good supply of filthy used nuts sitting in an old coffee can! :> :> :> :>

I really need to invest in a torch or at least some MAPP gas. Some day...

(http://thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/dr350_images/rear_disc_4.jpg)

Regards,

Gregory Bender

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 05, 2013, 08:53:08 AM
Ok, Lucky.  ;D I could have taken the head off those bolts with the impact driver without them budging. Maybe someone else had them off and didn't use any loc tite on reassembly? <shrug> Or Luigi forgot? ;) :BEER:
Adjust the buttons? <scratching head>

Unless your rotors and mounting points are true (with regard to casting)<clearing throat>, you may find that things don't fit as they did. Turn your wheel after installation and see if there is any contact. If so, get creative with the buttons.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 05, 2013, 02:21:24 PM
On my Suzuki dirt bike, I could not get enough heat into my button-head bolt heads with a propane torch (even after minutes of directed heat). So, I welded on some low-quality wrenches I had been needing throw away, anyway. I had plenty of heat penetration and leverage then: the bolts turned right out.

Of course, I could have welded nuts on top of the bolt heads, but I didn't want to waste any of my good supply of filthy used nuts sitting in an old coffee can! :> :> :> :>

I really need to invest in a torch or at least some MAPP gas. Some day...

(http://thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/dr350_images/rear_disc_4.jpg)

Regards,

Gregory Bender



Hi, Gregory! Yeah the second rotor wasn't wanting to come off easily. I put it down to my 50 year old bottle of propane running on empty. The torch warmed them up in a heartbeat. Most of the time, the proper tool makes easy work of it. Hey! I don't blame you for not wanting to ruin those valuable used nuts.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 05, 2013, 05:30:17 PM
My rotors came right off both sides.  Call me lucky.  When you bolt them up they may not sit so straight.  Be prepared to adjust the buttons a bit til there is no rubbing on the pads. 
-Kevin

I've just gotta address this. I *don't* mean to offend you, but if you can change the way the rotors run out by different tension on the buttons something is wrong. Bear with me.
Both the wheel and rotor are machined on massive lathes. The idea being to make everything concentric and flat. Guzzi, and whoever makes the wheel and rotor, now have machining centers that are capable of completely machining the wheel in one operation.
In '87, that wasn't so, but that doesn't mean that the way they were made is any less accurate.
"Probably" here is how the rotor was machined. The rough casting is chucked up in a lathe, and the swept surface, Outside diameter, bore and chamfer is cut. Then, it is turned around, located on the machined surfaces, and the other swept surface and area where the bolts go in is cut.
Make sense? Everything is concentric and flat. You can see on this picture where the rotor and wheel surfaces meet. There are tolerances of course, but they are a very few thousandths of an inch.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps1089bc8c.jpg)
When the wheel casting is machined, it is chucked up, and all the diameters will be cut, including where the rotor meets it. Then, it will be turned around, located on these machined surfaces and the other side cut. Again, the idea is flatness, parallelism, and concentricity. That way, when the rotor and wheel are mated, there won't be any run out, either axially or radially. This picture shows the mating surfaces. There are complicated gauges that check these sorts of things in production.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps88b2e9a4.jpg)
If you *can* change run out by changing torque on the bolts, either the wheel or rotor is machined improperly.. highly unlikely.. the rotor is warped.. possibly.. or there is a burr or piece of dirt, etc. under it on assembly.. most likely.
At any rate, it's your brakes.  :o If it were me, I'd be finding out why.  ;)


Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: lucky phil on March 05, 2013, 06:54:38 PM
On my Suzuki dirt bike, I could not get enough heat into my button-head bolt heads with a propane torch (even after minutes of directed heat). So, I welded on some low-quality wrenches I had been needing throw away, anyway. I had plenty of heat penetration and leverage then: the bolts turned right out.

Of course, I could have welded nuts on top of the bolt heads, but I didn't want to waste any of my good supply of filthy used nuts sitting in an old coffee can! :> :> :> :>

I really need to invest in a torch or at least some MAPP gas. Some day...

(http://thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/dr350_images/rear_disc_4.jpg)

Regards,

Gregory Bender


No need to throw those away. You can re-use the bolts and grind the wrenches off when installed. Could even save the "open end" part.
Chuck, in the name of good taste and decency please dont use those RED fork gators.....please.
Ciao 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 05, 2013, 07:06:42 PM
Quote
Chuck, in the name of good taste and decency please dont use those RED fork gators.....please.

Sorry. They were *cheap* and they were out of black.. <shrug>  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: wildduck on March 05, 2013, 07:18:22 PM
Chuck;

You have given me new found respect for the small blocks, not to mention your wrenching skills,

Good job,

John
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 05, 2013, 07:32:07 PM
Chuck;

You have given me new found respect for the small blocks, not to mention your wrenching skills,

Good job,

John

Thanks for that, John.. I've mentioned before that the small block is a later design by the genius.. in my opinion..Engineer Tonti. Several things about the small blocks are a little more elegant than the early big blocks, and they carry on to this day. Do they have some warts? Sure. Most machines do.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 05, 2013, 07:41:41 PM
I've just gotta address this. I *don't* mean to offend you, but if you can change the way the rotors run out by different tension on the buttons something is wrong. Bear with me.
Both the wheel and rotor are machined on massive lathes. The idea being to make everything concentric and flat. Guzzi, and whoever makes the wheel and rotor, now have machining centers that are capable of completely machining the wheel in one operation.
In '87, that wasn't so, but that doesn't mean that the way they were made is any less accurate.
"Probably" here is how the rotor was machined. The rough casting is chucked up in a lathe, and the swept surface, Outside diameter, bore and chamfer is cut. Then, it is turned around, located on the machined surfaces, and the other swept surface and area where the bolts go in is cut.
Make sense? Everything is concentric and flat. You can see on this picture where the rotor and wheel surfaces meet. There are tolerances of course, but they are a very few thousandths of an inch.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps1089bc8c.jpg)
When the wheel casting is machined, it is chucked up, and all the diameters will be cut, including where the rotor meets it. Then, it will be turned around, located on these machined surfaces and the other side cut. Again, the idea is flatness, parallelism, and concentricity. That way, when the rotor and wheel are mated, there won't be any run out, either axially or radially. This picture shows the mating surfaces. There are complicated gauges that check these sorts of things in production.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps88b2e9a4.jpg)
If you *can* change run out by changing torque on the bolts, either the wheel or rotor is machined improperly.. highly unlikely.. the rotor is warped.. possibly.. or there is a burr or piece of dirt, etc. under it on assembly.. most likely.
At any rate, it's your brakes.  :o If it were me, I'd be finding out why.  ;)




Thanks Chuck and I agree that things should be true on a wheel.  But, I have proved you can change the rotor by working the buttons.  Now... I'm not saying it's right to work the buttons, but it was the only solution we could find.  I had just spent hundreds having my rotors machined by the best of the best in machining Guzzi rotors.  They are flat from every indication I can tell.  They had been de-greased in a solution bath just before install.  Put them on with indicated torque settings, installed the wheel and spun it.  Rubbing occurred in only one from what I remember.  CHecked the brake pads and all was normal.  The bike had only sat on the stand the entire time the rotors were out, so nothing else had been changed.  The buttons proved to pull and push things just enough to where they needed to be with no rubbing.  I have zero pulsating now with these rotors.  Gawd awful before!!  Having a hand full of bolts in the end made me realize I must have just joined the Guzzi "mechanics club".  Just a joke!!!
I'm going to speculate that your bolts had seen some bad weather a time or two more than mine and needed some coaxing.  Those rotors look terrible in comparison to mine.  I was not impressed with the original machining on my rotors.
Thanks for the explain.
-Kevin        
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on March 06, 2013, 10:01:44 AM
Thanks for that, John.. I've mentioned before that the small block is a later design by the genius.. in my opinion..Engineer Tonti. Several things about the small blocks are a little more elegant than the early big blocks, and they carry on to this day. Do they have some warts? Sure. Most machines do.

I completely agree - but I assume that would surprise no one  ;D
A few years back, the SB was almost considered a joke among some guzzista. I've noticed that has changed somewhat with the new V7 line over the last few years, and a rekindled interest in the Lario (in spite of its inherent issues), which IMHO is a VERY special SB.

I just got my hands on some original factory US dealer communication. A V75 Sport was planned for release in 1987 with the 750 8V mill - I guess that later became the 750 Targa, but with the 4V mill, due to Guzzi dumping the 8V's in the bin. In those papers the 750 8V mill was claimed to have 81HP - I'm not sure what Luigi has been smoking that day, but some interesting pieces of information...

The original V75 was never supmitted for emission approval due to the dollar decline according to Guzzi, so it never made it to the US...

The basic 1977/80 SB design still remains like Chuck mentioned...It has proved its worth by now I think.
Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 06, 2013, 05:24:41 PM
Didn't do much on the scooter today. Yesterday, I had an unrepairable light in the bead blast cabinet go udders skyward, and when I was jumping through hoops putting a new light assembly in it, I heard a buzz, looked up, and saw smoke pouring out of a ballast on one of my 8 foot overhead lights.  :o Pulled the plug on that sucker, and left the premises post haste.  ;D I don't know what is in one of those antique (ahem) ballasts, (Mercury, I think) but I do know it isn't good for you. ;D Today, I finished putting a killer light in the bead blast cabinet, and pulled 16 feet of lights out of the paint booth, rewired them, and put them in the ceiling of the shop. I needs me some shades, now.. ;)
Ok, blasted those nasty looking rotors, and started taping them up for paint. Now, if this was a *restoration* a guy would just buy new rotors. They are available, and only cost somewhere around $275. Each.  :o ;D These are in good shape, just look bad, so spending a few hours of FREE (Guzzi Content) labor taping them up and painting them will pay dividends. Turn up the tunes, get out the taping tools, and spend some quality time taping, trimming, and thinking about all those poor guys that have to go to work.  ;D :BEER:
It doesn't have to be perfect, but striving for perfection is *only* good craftmanship.. ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/018_zps7d94d820.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: john fish on March 06, 2013, 05:47:03 PM
Man, this thread goes into my all-time favorite thread list.  Thanks, Chuck.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: beardog on March 06, 2013, 06:02:01 PM
 Chuck

   Very nicley done thanks a bunch for doing this. Also the bike is coming along great. :)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on March 06, 2013, 06:34:03 PM
Interesting about the brake rotors Chuck. I agree on all points.  ;-T

I recently had to get the semi floaters off the front wheel of the Cali III due to a broken spoke.

I had one button head per side that refused to come out and unfortunately my impact driver didn´t have a 5mm allen accessory. I got 4 out manually but had to weld an allen key into the socket to try and get them out. I broke 2 allen keys!  :o I had some old keys not spanners like Greg did. I got one out but the other refused to budge. I eventually had to weld a 17mm AF nut onto it and fill up the nut with weld. Put a socket onto it with  breaker bar and it eventually yielded. Don´t know how hot I got that bolt but the retaining fluid certainly didn´t give up easily.

I´m more of a heretic than you. I don´t have the patience to mask up the discs. I hand/brush painted them with pot belly black. It is very thin and runs to a smooth finish. If I went over a bit onto the pad area I know that the pad will cut the line nicely for me.  :D

All good now. I thought about putting hex head bolts instead of the buttons. There was enough clearance on the fork sliders for them but they did stick out about 1mm more than the buttons so I replaced the buttons with buttons again. I wondered about the weight difference and found the buttons were about 2gr lighter. 10 up front so that is 20gr less of unsprung weight. Nothing that we would notice in the greater scheme of things but a psychological win.  :D

I like fork gaiters. All of my bikes have them. Red !!!!!!! Its always better to be overdressed than over looked.  :D  ;-T

Rod
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 06, 2013, 06:42:52 PM
Quote
I like fork gaiters. All of my bikes have them. Red !!!!!!! Its always better to be overdressed than over looked.  Cheesy 

 ;D ;D ;D Haven't heard that one, but I like it.. ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 07, 2013, 10:59:53 AM
Yesterday, when we were talking about the machining operation, I *assumed* these were cast. Nope, they're stampings. :o Wow! It takes some serious machinery to stamp something as heavy as this.. I'd say a 1000 ton press. Here is the tell tale sign of a punch and die at work..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps1b0e160b.jpg)
I thought I'd show a little detail about how to tape these rotors. This is why you use a popsickle stick. You can get in and set the edges so paint won't bleed under the tape.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zpse0bb7153.jpg)
Tweezers and scalpel in use here. You *could* get your scalpel and blades at a medical supply. Like everything else medical, though, they'll be expensive. Farmers use the same stuff to castrate hawgs, and won't pay foolish city medical prices. Go to a farm store.  ;D Get several blades. When they begin to get dull, you won't get a crisp edge any more. Use them like they're free.. I used 3 to tape these two rotors.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zpsa28872fb.jpg)
The idea of all this, of course, is to keep paint from getting where you don't want it. You *really* don't want it on the machined surfaces where the rotor mounts. That area has to be scrupulously clean at assembly. Why? Do the trig. One thousandth of an inch between the rotor and wheel turns into 17 thousandths in one inch..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps8ddf045d.jpg)
Anyway, had a good morning taping the second one. Sang along with the radio, and  saved $275.  ;D :BEER:
Gotta stay right at it, the weather forecast is for 50s in a couple of days, and I need to have the rest of the stuff prepped for paint by then.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 07, 2013, 01:04:06 PM
I'll send mine over Chuck.  You can put a dab of paint on 'em and figure out why the tolerances aren't tru.   ;-T  That's some work you're doing.
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: biking sailor on March 07, 2013, 02:32:50 PM
Chuck,

Just letting you know there are some of us following this thread with great interest that haven't commented, but do appreciate your work and sharing it with us.  You're making the world a smarter place!

Thanks!
Darren
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: SteveAZ on March 07, 2013, 02:35:39 PM
Chuck,

Thank you for posting all of this. I don't have a SB but this is really interesting and the general skills being passed on here are a huge bonus.

Steve
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 07, 2013, 03:34:07 PM
Chuck,

Just letting you know there are some of us following this thread with great interest that haven't commented, but do appreciate your work and sharing it with us.  You're making the world a smarter place!

Thanks!
Darren

Thanks for that, Darren.  ;D It's kind of hard to judge just how much interest there is. If what I've seen on TV is the world, it wouldn't take much to make it smarter.. ;) :BEER: But I haven't seen much on small blocks, so I thought this would be fun to do.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 07, 2013, 03:37:50 PM
I'll send mine over Chuck.  You can put a dab of paint on 'em and figure out why the tolerances aren't tru.   ;-T  That's some work you're doing.
-Kevin

It's just standard machine shop/manufacturing processes. It would be interesting to clean up your rotors and wheels real well, and put a dial indicator on the rotor and see what is happening.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 07, 2013, 04:21:16 PM
Alrighty, let's continue getting stuff prepped for paint. I'd snagged a couple of passenger footpegs off ebay Cheap, and mixed and matched parts to get 2 good ones. Scuffed everything with a red Scotch brite pad, and masked them.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps5adba400.jpg)
Sanded out the bad spots and hit the fork lowers with Scotch brite, too. Put some plugs in the bores where the axle goes to save time getting the paint out.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zpsd344e210.jpg)
One of the issues that I wanted to address is the right clip on. Over the years brake fluid had been spilled on it, and it was pretty nasty.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsab78b93b.jpg)
Here is the (ahem) less than robust wiring on the switch gear. I wonder why it fails all the time? Relays are in order..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zpsafd36418.jpg)
Now, let's get this clip on off.  ;D All you have to do is loosen the pinch bolts at the upper and lower triple tree, the clip on, and remove the fork leg. It doesn't budge. Uh oh. Drive some wedges in the slots of the upper and lower triple tree. Nada. Hmmmm. I really wanted to bead blast and zinc chromate that sucker, but just how likely am I to damage this fork tube that otherwise doesn't need to come out? Knowing me, I'd say it's 50/50.  ;D Sometimes, discretion *is* the better part of valor.. so I cut up some strips of 220 emery cloth and had at it. This is what it looked like before starting.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps0b2f884b.jpg)
After all, corrosion control is the goal here. Prepped it, cut a hole in some plastic sheeting, covered everything, put on my respirator, shot it with zinc chromate, held my breath while I put the respirator back in it's bag, sealed it, and got out of Dodge. How's that for a run on sentence? ;D Tomorrow, I'll rattle can it black.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps7a470378.jpg)

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: John Ulrich on March 07, 2013, 04:28:42 PM
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zpsa28872fb.jpg)

Chuck,
I'm liking this level of activity.  ;-T
This is good practice for those rusty car rotors in the spring!!!
JU
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Danpw on March 07, 2013, 11:19:12 PM
If you want to spread the triple clamp to get the fork tube out, rather than use a wedge. I find I get more control by removeing the clamp bolt, sliding a piece of stip steel in the slot and inserting the clamp bolt in the triple clamp from the other (front) side.

The bolt screws through the triple clamp and presses on the strip steel to force the clamp open, use a gentle hand as you can put a lot of pressure on this way. Advantages are more control and no wedge to fall out. Sorry no photo's as I'm at work.

Don't work to fast finishing the bike I'm enjoying this thread so much I don't want it to end.

Dan
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 08, 2013, 07:00:52 AM
If you want to spread the triple clamp to get the fork tube out, rather than use a wedge. I find I get more control by removeing the clamp bolt, sliding a piece of stip steel in the slot and inserting the clamp bolt in the triple clamp from the other (front) side.

The bolt screws through the triple clamp and presses on the strip steel to force the clamp open, use a gentle hand as you can put a lot of pressure on this way. Advantages are more control and no wedge to fall out. Sorry no photo's as I'm at work.

Don't work to fast finishing the bike I'm enjoying this thread so much I don't want it to end.

Dan

Thanks for that, Dan. It's not too late,  I'll give it a look. I know the bottom is a blind tapped hole, so that wouldn't work on it, but don't remember the top for sure. When I go out later in the day, I'll give it a try. I *think* the top is the problem.. and if I can get the leg out relatively easily I'll do it.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Mark West on March 08, 2013, 11:30:10 AM
If you want to spread the triple clamp to get the fork tube out, rather than use a wedge. I find I get more control by removeing the clamp bolt, sliding a piece of stip steel in the slot and inserting the clamp bolt in the triple clamp from the other (front) side.

The bolt screws through the triple clamp and presses on the strip steel to force the clamp open, use a gentle hand as you can put a lot of pressure on this way. Advantages are more control and no wedge to fall out. Sorry no photo's as I'm at work.

Don't work to fast finishing the bike I'm enjoying this thread so much I don't want it to end.

Dan

I did this on my LMIV and even with that it was really difficult. had to find some pretty heavy steel for the bolt to push against.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 08, 2013, 02:57:51 PM
I did this on my LMIV and even with that it was really difficult. had to find some pretty heavy steel for the bolt to push against.

I have some Brown and Sharp oil hardening tool steel that would be perfect for this job. Unfortunately, the bottom is a blind hole and the top isn't tapped all the way through. I looked through my meager supply of metric taps and didn't have one. I have ever 'Merican tap in the world. So, I didn't need to get that sucker off of there, anyway.  ;) Painted it on the bike..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps558a07f4.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: bad Chad on March 08, 2013, 03:14:27 PM
When is this project going to be done?   I got things to do! :D ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 08, 2013, 03:21:43 PM
So, let's clean up the front wheel while waiting for the paint to dry..
Spritzed it with Super Clean..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps5b55ebdd.jpg)
And it rinses off with water. I'm impressed, actually..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zps49d6a519.jpg)
Wiped it down with one of my FREE towels, and put a coat of wax on it. I got this stuff at the IMS show a couple of weeks ago, and the huckster gave me a demo.. it's a cleaner wax about like most others. "Only 20 dollars. But wait... there's more.  ;D This week only for this show, I'll throw in another bottle, *and* 2 free micro fiber towels." How could I keep my wallet closed? It works ok, and made in Ohio. I saved my micro fiber towels for rubbing on Rosie and used my FREE towels from the hospital dumpster. Took about an hour.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zpsde35bdcc.jpg)
It did a good enough job to see the run that Luigi put in there.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps60924fef.jpg)
Now, I wouldn't make a pimple on a real painter's a$$, but I'll tell you the most important thing I've learned in painting a few things. You have to be able to see. Period. If you can't, it's like trying to weld without being able to see the bead. I'd just stolen some lights out of the soon to be demolished temporary paint booth, ca. 1999, and needed to move some lights around to be able to see well enough to paint. You have to be able to see the highlights as you are spraying, or you will spray too little (orange peel) or too much (sags and runs.) I'd found a can of aluminum that looked just like the fork lowers, and it said it could be sprayed at 50 degrees. I could maintain that today, and would get a head start on tomorrow's scheduled painting day. It's supposed to be quite a bit warmer, and the only way I can heat the paint booth is to suck warm air out of the shop. So, I prepped the lowers and hung them.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zps06f61b70.jpg)
Sprayed them and.... they're *shiny* Yuck. I've decided that you can pay no attention whatsoever to what the cap on a rattle can looks like.  ;D Oh, well.. it's not the end of the world. I'll look at them tomorrow and decide what to do.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zpsc0c11946.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 08, 2013, 03:27:49 PM
When is this project going to be done?   I got things to do! :D ;)

<shrug> If it doesn't last all winter, it's not a winter project.  ;D Motorcycles don't take long, I've had to stretch it out some, but a couple of more weeks should do it.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 09, 2013, 05:25:04 PM
Ok, so I dummied up the Hillbilly Chrome Just like on a Beater Pickup Truck lowers, and thought, "No."  ;D I'd thought maybe the Gaudy Gaiters would take your eye off of them but they actually looked worse than in this picture. Picked up my nastiest can of lacquer thinner, and wiped it off.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zpsed94a832.jpg)
Our 50 degree forecast weather wasn't happening as rapidly as forecast, so decided to do something else while waiting for it to warm up. Kiwi Roy has made several posts about cleaning these old ignition switches, so I thought I'd give it a go. Took a picture so I'd know which wire went where..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps997a2059.jpg)
and held the switch in a small V block so I didnt poke that small screwdriver through my hand taking it apart.  ;) Most dangerous tool in the shop..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps6d119eca.jpg)
Roy was right, of course, and the contacts needed cleaned up.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps25f17c70.jpg)
A few passes with a stainless steel toothbrush (actually I did a few more to brighten them up) some dielectric grease Vaseline, and it's ready to go back together.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zpsa06fbd87.jpg)
It's idiot proof, will only go back one way..so line it up and crimp the ears back down.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zpsa69cc4f2.jpg)
That took considerably less time to do than to tell about it.  ;D
It's only 36 degrees outside, so still need to kill some time. The high and low beam indicator bulbs don't work, so let's fix that..
Remove these two screws, and peel the back off of the cluster.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zps462e347d.jpg)
Here you can see the 5 knurled nuts, washers, rubber bushings,  ::) that you have to keep track of to get to the bulbs.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps67e37f8e.jpg)
Poking a screwdriver here on each side lets you pull it apart to remove the bulbs.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zps51e9b5a7.jpg)
Checking the bulbs shows that no kidding, "they're dead, Jim."  ;D Surely, the DPOs idea of powering the ignition through the switch gear didn't have anything to do with that? <shrug>
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zps5556eb9d.jpg)
A trip to AutoZone (ripoff artists, just sayin..) gets me a pair for only 5 freakin dollars. :o
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps9f064649.jpg)
So, put them in, put the ignition switch back in, and shouldn't have to deal with this stuff for a long time. By this time, it's warmed up enough to paint. I'm not happy with the paint I used on the drivetrain, it's just not tough enough, so I painted the fork lowers with bed liner.  ~;
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/014_zps29764640.jpg)
Guzzi archeology here.. looks like one of these grab handles fits a 1000 SP, too.  ;D It's  the right color under the black..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/015_zpsa1a0025f.jpg)
Lots of little black pieces hanging in the booth..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016-1_zps5b4adad5.jpg)
Sanded out the sags and painted the valve cover.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/017_zpsb3994f74.jpg)
Tomorrow, we'll paint the rotors (ran out of time today) and be done.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: LeRoy on March 09, 2013, 09:55:51 PM
Yesterday, when we were talking about the machining operation, I *assumed* these were cast. Nope, they're stampings. :o Wow! It takes some serious machinery to stamp something as heavy as this.. I'd say a 1000 ton press. Here is the tell tale sign of a punch and die at work..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps1b0e160b.jpg)


What with these rotors being stamped from sheet, I wonder if it's possible that they are less than dead flat. I've heard several times that removing and reattaching this type of rotor to the carrier could lead to an out of true condition; something that would indicate as lateral run-out at the perimeter of the rotor when fully assembled to the wheel. I believe this is what was alluded to in an earlier portion of this thread.

Do you have a surface plate (or granite countertop in the wife's kitchen)? It would be interesting to know if they are dead flat and if the surface that mounts to the carrier is completely true to the disc surface. Or maybe it's too late to measure with a little paint build-up to confuse things. As you say, a thousandth here and there, and soon your talking real money.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on March 10, 2013, 01:39:19 AM
I installed a pair of new ones on my Lario last year. One was OK, one was less than completely flat/plain. Felt like it was warped, but looking at it the surface was uneven.

I assume it can be fixed in a lathe, but that's one tool I'm not quite familiar with and don't have...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 10, 2013, 06:34:11 AM
What with these rotors being stamped from sheet, I wonder if it's possible that they are less than dead flat. I've heard several times that removing and reattaching this type of rotor to the carrier could lead to an out of true condition; something that would indicate as lateral run-out at the perimeter of the rotor when fully assembled to the wheel. I believe this is what was alluded to in an earlier portion of this thread.

Do you have a surface plate (or granite countertop in the wife's kitchen)? It would be interesting to know if they are dead flat and if the surface that mounts to the carrier is completely true to the disc surface. Or maybe it's too late to measure with a little paint build-up to confuse things. As you say, a thousandth here and there, and soon your talking real money.

Good idea, LeRoy.. after the paint cures I'll set up and check these rotors. A stamping is more accurate than a molded part, but cast iron is much more stable over time. If they are out, I'll see about fixing that.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 10, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
I love pulling tape. It's fun to see the "new" look of the passenger footpegs, for instance. Will the rotors look new? Noooo, but they'll look a damn sight better than those rusty ones we started with. I hate rust.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040719_zps20b24e97.jpg)
Pulling at a 45 degree angle before the paint is cured gives a crisp edge.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040720_zpsf29b621b.jpg)
Hung them back up to continue curing, and tomorrow with any luck at all, we'll see if they are flat,and if not make that so.  ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 11, 2013, 11:16:07 AM
Putting some 1  2 3 blocks on the table, locating the rotor on 3 of the mounting tabs and lightly clamping it will give a good representation of what it will be like bolted up on the wheel. First, indicate the OD to get on center. BTW, this rotor is worn .003" more toward the center than the outside.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040721_zps90b0e687.jpg)
Normal runout tolerance is .002 to .003, and this one is fine.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040722_zpsb9ff34a5.jpg)
Put the second one on, indicate it up, and swing it..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040723_zpsfade0be3.jpg)
No problemo. Finally! Something that doesn't need fixed.  ;D Waiting on a parts order, so may as well start putting things back on. Shiny handgrips. Won't be able to see them when the bodywork is on, but they won't be sitting there quietly rusting, either.  ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040724_zps427aada0.jpg)
Probably, this tailpiece, which was the worst of the bodywork, will make the rest look bad. <shrug>
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040725_zps41d8c9aa.jpg)
Started to clean up the taillight, and meh, it's cracked. I hear that whistle blowing, so we'll fix that after lunch.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040727_zpsc29bde20.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on March 11, 2013, 11:56:46 AM
You have the original stock tail light glass with the "wings"  ;-T - not available any more - only the version without wings, which makes the tail piece screws visible. Make sure the screws are good and tight, I already lost one with the "wings".

Great you rotors are straight;-T  I still get shaken and a little stirred by mine  ;D

I admire your patience documenting every step you take ;-T
This will help a great number of Lariophiles to come.  ;-T :bow
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on March 11, 2013, 02:20:31 PM
Chuck
What would you call this tool in English?

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040723_zpsfade0be3.jpg)

This would be good to determine cranck bearing play...or?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 11, 2013, 02:41:34 PM
Chuck
What would you call this tool in English?

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040723_zpsfade0be3.jpg)

This would be good to determine cranck bearing play...or?

It's called a dial indicator. This one reads in thousandths of an inch, the most common. You could check end play on a crank easily enough. It's a basic tool for setting up machine tools, measuring, etc.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 11, 2013, 03:20:29 PM
Quote
You have the original stock tail light glass with the "wings"  - not available any more - only the version without wings, which makes the tail piece screws visible. Make sure the screws are good and tight, I already lost one with the "wings".
Yeah, Guzzi being Guzzi, they just sonic welded a couple of wings on lenses they already had.. ;D
Let's fix this one.
Industrial stuff..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040738_zpscebeae8d.jpg)
"Every Junkie's like the setting sun.." :o
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040739_zpsb10c737a.jpg)
Suck up a little glue in your kit, hold the crack together, and apply a very small amount to the crack. You will see it flow by capillary action and bond the crack if it fits well. You can see the repair, but you have to look for it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040740_zps9849b33c.jpg)
I'm waiting on a parts order,and am officially starting to look for stuff to do.  ;D Might as well clean up the valve covers for the last time and put new o rings on them.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040730_zps3c8517a4.jpg)
Pour oil liberally on the working parts, no need for a dry startup.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040731_zpsaac4578b.jpg)
Put the covers on, and that'll finish that part. Let's do the front, now. Clean the crank taper with your hand, and the rotor with your finger. Skin is about the best thing for this.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040732_zpsada06622.jpg)
Hmmm. Missing a picture of the stator installation. Just pull up the brushes and slide it on. Use your special Guzzi tool, cleverly disguised as a big hunker screwdriver in the timing inspection hole to lock the flywheel to tighten the rotor screw.
Take the advance mechanism to the parts washer and clean it well. A little lube goes a long way, but get it working smoothly.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040733_zpsfc45a814.jpg)
Pay attention, the Dyna gizmo can be installed backwards. Hold the advance in your hand with the arrow at 6 oclock, and install the pickup with the magnet pointing left.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040734_zps100badf9.jpg)
Line it up with your previously installed marks.. you *did* do that, didn't you?  ;D
and here is another of those tools that a guy's just gotta have. A screw starter makes for a simple job of getting those pesky screws installed.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040735_zpsd7b11bce.jpg)
Plug in the three yellow wires, doesn't matter in what order, put the purple on the brushes, and the blue on the stator. Nothing goes on the bottom connection, as many have found out to their chagrin..  ;) including the DPO..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040736_zps49ecf936.jpg)
Looks like that's it for today, it's beer o'clock.. :BEER:

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on March 11, 2013, 05:38:26 PM
These pics are a Feast ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: lucky phil on March 11, 2013, 09:01:26 PM
Should have stop drilled that tail light lense Chuck.......it'll continue cracking for sure.
Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 12, 2013, 06:17:04 AM
Should have stop drilled that tail light lense Chuck.......it'll continue cracking for sure.
Ciao

I'll give it 50/50.  ;D You have to drill the hole at the very end of the crack, which is almost always farther than you think. The beauty of this extremely thin solvent is that it wicks to the end of the crack and bonds. Trying to stop drill something like this one is hit or miss, IMHO.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: s_ellinson on March 12, 2013, 01:58:29 PM
I can remember the tail light lenses from LM IV days - i was always convinced then that they'd just glued somme extra bits on the end. Guzzi always were built down to a price in some departments and by the time you get into the 80s, that was showing by their use of the cheapest forks and shocks around. Mind you, they're still a mile better than the rest.

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 12, 2013, 02:23:36 PM
I can remember the tail light lenses from LM IV days - i was always convinced then that they'd just glued somme extra bits on the end. Guzzi always were built down to a price in some departments and by the time you get into the 80s, that was showing by their use of the cheapest forks and shocks around. Mind you, they're still a mile better than the rest.

Keep up the good work!

No doubt, that's what they did. To me, it's part of the allure of them. It was obviously a small company doing the best they could with limited resources, and doing it very well..
Unfortunately, I took a 10 power glass and looked at this crack, and it appears to head into the sonic welded area. <shrug> There's no way to find the end of it.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 13, 2013, 03:32:33 PM
Still waiting for parts, so continued tinkering around doing a little of this and that. Decided to fill and bleed the brakes. Used my repurposed Cajun injector and filled the brake reservoir through the system. Did the front first, then the rear. Had some pedal, but it was still needing to be bled. As Morizzi said, a clear hose on the reservoir to the master cylinder helps. You can see that air bubble. Put my vacuum pump on the front, did it, then the back. I've already shown pix of this operation, but here's my invisible assistant, who worked the pedal for me.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps0262f20f.jpg)
The plugs look just fine, thank you, so no need to tear down the carbs to fix something that ain't broke.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps47637a51.jpg)
Just took them off and gave them a cosmetic cleaning.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpsdaa614a2.jpg)
Probably ought to fix this, it powers the ignition.  ::)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zpsa71bc5e8.jpg)
Another of those tools that makes work easy. An aircraft crimper gives perfect crimps every time.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zps1a2ccac9.jpg)
Thought surely I'd have some aluminum tubing for the transmission vent, but found some copper no doubt from a derelict 30s or 40s airplane. Cleaned it up with some scotch brite.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zps6f03f55b.jpg)
And bent it up.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps07524ea1.jpg)
Cut it off plenty long, and after the carbs, etc are mounted, will hook it to the vent with a rubber hose and it will go up and (hopefully) condense the oil vapor.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps515ff41a.jpg)
Took a look at the headers, but they're not going to clean up. Is there some kind of header paint that will hold up?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zpsb31ac98d.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Gregory Bender on March 13, 2013, 07:12:49 PM
Took a look at the headers, but they're not going to clean up. Is there some kind of header paint that will hold up?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zpsb31ac98d.jpg)

Back when I owned my Quota, I bought one of Price Sloan's header pipe set ups. This was before Price was working in Stainless Steel and so I needed to paint the regular old rust-prone steel. I used Rustoleum BBQ paint. Be ready for some burn off when you first start and run the engine, but it held up quite well. I think it needed a freshen up every couple years. Cheap and easy...

Regards,

Gregory Bender
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 13, 2013, 11:20:44 PM
I used that on my pipes but not headers. Should do fine as Greg said. Looks good.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Dogwalker on March 14, 2013, 05:45:01 AM
Yesterday, when we were talking about the machining operation, I *assumed* these were cast. Nope, they're stampings. :o Wow! It takes some serious machinery to stamp something as heavy as this.. I'd say a 1000 ton press.
They were made by Grimeca for Moto Guzzi. Actually they claim to have, among their equipement, a 800t press. Probably they had one of similar size, or even a little more powerful, in the late '70s - early '80s.
http://www.grimeca.it/
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 14, 2013, 07:50:08 AM
Quote
Cheap and easy...

 ;-T That's the ticket. Bead blast for prep? How about painting chrome mufflers? Will bead blast work? I'm in uncharted waters here..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Gregory Bender on March 14, 2013, 08:04:56 AM
;-T That's the ticket. Bead blast for prep? How about painting chrome mufflers? Will bead blast work? I'm in uncharted waters here..

I always painted over bare (or previously painted) metal - not over chrome. I'd just wash-rinse-dry-wipe down and paint. With a chromed surface, I'd want to get as much off as I could so there would be some bite.

Regards,

Gregory Bender
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Vasco DG on March 14, 2013, 09:02:03 AM
Despite some similarities the two are very different engines. The 'Nuovo Hi-Cam' is, in most ways, streets ahead of the old design.

Pete
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 14, 2013, 09:13:36 AM
Quote
I figured you'd be using the double-crimp, strain relief variety of terminals like you get from Vintage Connections:
Looks like good stuff for automotive work.. Thanks!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 14, 2013, 01:54:21 PM
I'm a pretty patient person, but I just walked away from this job.. ::(
I was finishing up going through the electrical system and the right turnsignal wasn't working. I though, no problem, I'd just put an ebay turnsignal assy on the back, and probably the bulb's dead. Opened it up, and there wasn't any bulb. Put one in. No cigar. Hmmm. Started back tracking, and was good up to the switch. Uh oh. Opened it up with fear and trepidation.  ;D
Here's the offending part of the switch.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps917cc63e.jpg)
There are several loose springs and pieces of beryllium copper. Those little legs have to fit in slots, and of course, the springs want to push it all apart.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsa8d36c85.jpg)
The back just snaps on.  ::( or doesn't, which ever happens first. After an hour and a half, and many attempts, I left it..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpsa82cbf2b.jpg)
How they ever assemble these in production is beyond me.. :P
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 14, 2013, 02:30:02 PM
Must need skinny fingers Chuck.  Not hard for me with long skinny fingers.  Looks similar to the headlamp side, but I didn't do the turn signals.  Can't tell by pics how hard to line up.  They are junk-awful suckers! 
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Gregory Bender on March 14, 2013, 02:34:32 PM
I love the look of the original "Tron" switches on my I-Convert (I know, "lego" is a more popular term, but I like the "Tron" moniker better). And, I actually resurrected the left handlebar switch and it is working quite well (or, as well as it ever worked). The right throttle/starter and kill switch was another story. Try as I might, I couldn't save it (the plastic screws securing the two halves just weren't going to hold the halves together - especially when I tightened the set screw). I eventually gave up and fit a start/kill switch from a Ducati or Yamaha or something. Plastics have come a long way in the last 30 years, and the early plastic switches leave a lot to be desired in terms of ease of use and repair-ability. Still, I love the look. What's a guy to do but spend 5 or 6 hours resurrecting old switch gear - only to be disappointed in the end result :> :> :>

Regards,

Gregory Bender
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on March 14, 2013, 06:18:38 PM
I´ve learned not to go in there unless I really have to. Stating that I´ve always won in the end but it can be tricky.

If you need to solder then that soft liquid solder  melts at a lower temp so the plastic is less likely to melt.

I now just clean the switches from the outside. Years of PO´s squirting them with WD40 and whatever has slowly built up mud in there not to mention the normal corrosion. I squirt wate based degreaser in there and work the switch, leave it for a while and repeat until it works. Periodic rinsing with a spray bottle of water and blowing it all out with a compressor.

Once it is clean and if it still is a bit dicky I´ll do the same with phoshoric acid but only leave it in there for a short while, rinsing well after. To date I haven´t failed with any of the switches by this method.

Due to the age and corosion I periodically ned to degrease them again. Every year or so. My Monza turn switch needs to be cleaned te most and you need to know exactly how to shift the switch but that is all part of its personality.

I like Greg´s description ´Tron´ much btter than Leggo but I think the Lario had the up/down switch rather than the left/right tha I have. I have been told they were more temperamental but that is quite subjective as those owners never had the earlier version to compare.

Still with 2 x L III´s, 1 x Monza and 1 x SP all the original Tron switchgear is there and working except for the SP´s RH side which was swapped by a PO.

Good luck.

Rod
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 14, 2013, 06:24:36 PM
I wouldn't put anything in there unless water gets in.  I would think gunk of any kind is not good for these old things.  I have used that liquid gold stuff once but don't think it leaves too much behind.  I understand the stripping it out with acid bit.   
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 14, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
Quote
I´ve learned not to go in there unless I really have to.

I've learned that too. Now.  ~; ;D I *hope* I get it back together. I can just see one of those stinking tabs breaking off, and it'll be toast.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: mwrenn on March 14, 2013, 08:38:53 PM
hmmm...On getting that switch together.  Could you drill a couple of .045" holes in the side of the switch body.  And a receiving hole on the other side.
Then use some .040 safety wire through the holes to hold the copper parts in place under the spring tension.   Put the top of the switch on and pull the wire out.  Kind of like doing the brushes on a Prestolite alternator.
Might work.   ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Mark West on March 15, 2013, 02:54:38 AM
BTDT on my LMIV. Thought it would be a good idea to clean all the switch contacts. I did eventually get it together but can't for the life of me remember exactly how. I'm sure it took a while though.

This may be one of those things to walk away from and come back later after a breather.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Dogwalker on March 15, 2013, 05:34:18 AM
Mine had some problems due partly to the dirt and oxide built up over the years, partly to the fact that, the "rivets" were no longer in good contact with the brass "tracks".
But it needed only about an hour or two of work with deoxidizer spray and solder to fix them, and they work well since then.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on March 15, 2013, 05:56:18 AM
Chuck
You had one cylinder replated with Milinuim Technology. How much did you pay for that - can't find it in the thread if you already gave that info.
I have a bloack 750cc grade B I'd like to have replated. I may let my daughter take it back to the US. Here the cost is around 5-600$

By the way, did the paint on the cylinder survive the process?

Cheers
Brian
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 15, 2013, 06:04:37 AM
Chuck
You had one cylinder replated with Milinuim Technology. How much did you pay for that - can't find it in the thread if you already gave that info.
I have a bloack 750cc grade B I'd like to have replated. I may let my daughter take it back to the US. Here the cost is around 5-600$

By the way, did the paint on the cylinder survive the process?

Cheers
Brian

Hi, Brian.. don't remember exactly, but it was in the high 200s. I had a little over $300 in it after buying a set of rings. Haven't I seen a German (I think) supplier offering complete cylinder sets for Larios?
Quote
By the way, did the paint on the cylinder survive the process?
Nope.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on March 15, 2013, 06:30:44 AM
Thanks Chuck  ;-T - yes Gilardoni kits are available here for Lario's. My cylinder thoug is  750CC ntx barrel. those are close to 800$ here. A replating may be a good road to travel, if on doesn't pop up on eBay. I have a few grade B 8V 750cc pistons, so i like to hang on to my grade B 750cc cylinders.

Cheers
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Gregory Bender on March 15, 2013, 06:56:42 AM
Thanks Chuck  ;-T - yes Gilardoni kits are available here for Lario's. My cylinder thoug is  750CC ntx barrel. those are close to 800$ here. A replating may be a good road to travel, if on doesn't pop up on eBay. I have a few grade B 8V 750cc pistons, so i like to hang on to my grade B 750cc cylinders.

Cheers

Here are a few services to investigate:
http://thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/moto_guzzi_loopframe_engine.htm#gtb_cylinder_plating_services

Hope this helps!

Regards,

Gregory Bender
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on March 15, 2013, 07:24:51 AM
Thanks Greg ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 16, 2013, 09:55:21 AM
Ok, here's the secret to assembling this stupid switch.  ;D We were going to Wisconsin to visit the kids and I threw the components in a plastic bag. Brad is 10X the mechanic I am, and I handed him the bag without telling him how I'd tried to assemble it. He originally tried like I did, that is by putting all the parts together at once. No joy. Finally, he snapped the t/s and light switch together as a sub assembly..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040761_zps695d873c.jpg)
Then, dropped the horn button/spring assembly in the housing and it just snapped together.  ::) Easy peasey.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/P1040762_zps9b39b2fd.jpg)
Sometimes, another pair of eyes is all it takes.
Oh, I was looking back through this thread, and the copper piece on the horn button in this picture needs to be turned over.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsa8d36c85.jpg)
At any rate, There's no reason to be afraid to take these switches apart to clean them, now.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: gentlemanjim on March 17, 2013, 09:57:58 PM
If it wasn't so informative this thread would be worth viewing for the clever and whitty prose.  Well done Chuck
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 19, 2013, 04:56:08 PM
If it wasn't so informative this thread would be worth viewing for the clever and whitty prose.  Well done Chuck

Thank you, sir.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 19, 2013, 05:14:33 PM
In the spirit of doing something every day, I did a little bit. Spring is coming (believe it, or not)  ::) and I don't have much longer to finish this up if it's going to remain a "Winter" project. Finished up the left switch, hooked everything up, tried the right turn signal, and woo hoo!  ;D That's what we're talkin' about.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps437af35a.jpg)
Now that I have a high and low beam, it's time to wire in another headlight relay. Grabbed my roll of (pennies on the dollar mil surplus)  ;D tefzel coated 14 gauge aircraft wire, and made some jumpers from the first relay. It's color coated.. white *is* a color, after all.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps40fea028.jpg)
An automatic wire stripper makes short work of that job. Another of those tools that you wonder why you haven't had one forever..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zps96794c37.jpg)
Now, the headlight is at battery voltage..much brighter.. but more importantly the switchgear is only carrying the relay trigger load instead of the headlight load.
Still waiting on my parts order and looking for stuff to do...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 20, 2013, 11:21:39 AM
I couldn't stand it. Remember the loose bolts on the rear drive? I've seen some other things that I didn't much care for on this scooter, and kept wondering if the DPO had been in there, too. Then, there was that picture of a blown up small block rear drive where a crown wheel bolt came loose a week or two ago. I just knew it would eat on me. What if Dorcia was riding with me, and the rear drive locked up? That might end her riding days...
So, I opened it up this morning. These are the updated crown wheel bolts, and they were torqued. No flat plates to remove.  ;-T The crown wheel and pinion look good.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zpsc46fde7f.jpg)
Didn't even tear the paper gaskets taking it apart.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps50d7e643.jpg)
Just a reminder to not to forget these trapped nuts for the rear caliper when going back together.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpsbbc712d5.jpg)
Total cost? Two hours of waiting for Spring to get here. Peace of mind? Priceless..
Just goes to show you that if you live long enough, something will turn out right.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 21, 2013, 01:14:34 PM
25% Free! How could a Guzzi guy pass that up?  ;D Actually, they turned out better than I expected and I never would have tried it without Gregory's recommendation..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps8d822715.jpg)
El Cheapo Emgos. A friend sold them to me at cost just to try. They are a little heavy, though.  ;) ~; So I added 4 lightening holes on each. Sean Fader, Guzzi small block guru, told me that small blocks really like reverse cone megaphones, so if I like what they sound like after "lightening," I'll see about cutting out the tube that keeps these from being reverse coned. Just might try some more kinda shiny bbq grill paint on them, too.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps195c6da1.jpg)

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: canuck750 on March 21, 2013, 10:47:31 PM
Very thorough and proffesional workmanship!!
I am learning a lot from your postings.


Cheers
Jim Carey
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: lucky phil on March 21, 2013, 11:09:24 PM
Chuck,once you introduce baffles into the equation then the shape of the muffler section becomes irrelavant.
For a reverse cone megaphone to deliver any performance gains it has to be without baffles.
Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 22, 2013, 06:40:28 AM
Chuck,once you introduce baffles into the equation then the shape of the muffler section becomes irrelavant.
For a reverse cone megaphone to deliver any performance gains it has to be without baffles.
Ciao

Thanks for that, Phil. That will keep me from wasting time on these. The "mufflers" that came with it were just that..a hollow core with a reverse cone welded on. As poorly as it was running, I couldn't tell the difference when I swapped them for the *much* quieter Emgos.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: s_ellinson on March 22, 2013, 09:56:48 AM
I ran my V50 with Norton "Peashooters" for a long time. They seemed to make it much more peppy. They were straight through, with peripheral absorbtion material, and best of all they were about £70 for a pair, brand new. I'm not sure if the reverse cone or the straight through was the good bit, but they worked.

Stewart
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 22, 2013, 10:16:45 AM
I found the straight-throughs on the Lario to get exceedingly tiring.  If you are going to try to get the most from it that's one thing, but if you like things a bit more peaceful, I suggest baffles.  You gain sound more than anything else, but you already know this.  I'm afraid I'm going to have one of each.   ::)
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 22, 2013, 06:56:55 PM
Finally got my parts this afternoon.  ;D The hold up was the neutral switch for the Mighty Scura that I wanted to take out to California next week. Mrs. Eish asked me, "Do you want the Guzzi $5.65 rotor bolts with loc tite already on them, or the $1 bolt that you have to put your own loc tite on?" Silly girl...  ;D Ran them in.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/022_zpsda2bf0ee.jpg)
And torqued them.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/023_zpsaf537301.jpg)
I'd needed them so I could put the front end back together, along with the fork seals. The old seals weren't leaking, but I thought I just may as well replace them while I was at it. This is another tool that you just have to have if you're going to work on motorcycles. Don't need one on airplanes, so I had to buy  :o this one. Notice the different radii that you can eyeball to use the correct one.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps5862999d.jpg)
Pick the wrong one, and it's possible to damage the seal area. Just sayin.. Just put it under the seal and pull. It'll pop right out. Nothin to it. As I've said before, the proper tool is more than half the job most of the time.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zps67979538.jpg)
There are rings around the new seals to help eyeball them square. Push them in by hand, and then drive them flush with your ever present piece of flat plastic and copper hammer.  ;)
Lubricate them with some Dextron.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zpsfb616bb2.jpg)
Since we are putting gaiters on it, some synthetic grease  ~; will help keep rust at bay..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zpsf242e7c7.jpg)
There are drain holes in gaiters, put them in the back.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zpsb97e3f77.jpg)
The slots in the back of the fork tubes line up with the drain screws in the fork legs.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps64693039.jpg)
Carefully slide the fork lowers on, no need of damaging the new seals, align the legs, install the bolts, and give them a shot with the rattle gun.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/014_zps21645e98.jpg)
Now, we can put the wheel on and have a rolling chassis again.  ;D ;-T
Uh oh. The airplane mechanic in me saw a crack.. I certainly didn't expect one here..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016-1_zpsa60536a5.jpg)
Now, somebody that is good with a tig could repair that. I have a tig. I thought, what are *my* chances of repairing this with a tig? Select one.
(1) Slim
(2) None
A guy has to know his limitations.  ;D
So. Out comes the ox acetylene torch again. My probably 30 years old  ::) silver solder flux had dried out. Put some water in it and stirred it up.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/019_zps4a036e25.jpg)
Silver solder bonds by molecular attraction, so the surfaces have to be *clean*. Duct tape it up and off to the bead blast.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/018_zps30ca4bf6.jpg)
Liberal flux on it, dip the silver solder in the flux, get a neutral flame going with (probably) your smallest tip.
I set it on the vise, and put a v block that I don't care about on it for a heat sink.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/020_zps67c4af19.jpg)
Sorry, no time for pictures during this operation. Heat it to cherry, *keep the flame envelope on the work to prevent oxidation* and touch it with the silver solder. If all goes well, it will flow by capillary action, fill the crack, and end up on the back side.
I quit.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/021_zps0b7506b1.jpg)
I'll let you know if it was good repair after a few thousand miles.. ;D
Put on the wheel, brake calipers (loc tite there, too) and torque everything down. It took considerably longer to tell about it then to do it. Probably that's why you don't see too much of this on the web. The pros really don't have time to do this. It's play for me..  ;)
100cc Dextron in each fork leg.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/025_zps9f936240.jpg)
And it's a roller again.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/028_zps1871f0c0.jpg)
Apologies to Lucky Phil. Black gaiters would have looked much better, but Closeout with FREE shipping? I couldn't pass it up.  ;D A certain down under guy I know would have seen the choices, fluorescent green, blue, yellow, and this color, and would have put a blue on one side and green on the other.  ;D 
 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 24, 2013, 06:36:55 AM
Alrighty, let's finish it up.
Install the previously MIA clutch arm spring..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps7138d761.jpg)
Make sure there's a little clearance so the throw out bearing isn't  under load all the time. Don't have a picture, but I'd pulled out the bearing and greased the rollers while everything was apart. It can be done now, of course, just by taking the arm off. Just harder to get at.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zpsa1e227ad.jpg)
Pretty fancy for Guzzi.. the intake manifolds are marked.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zpsa4e2ac44.jpg)
There was some paint in the threads of this head, and this screw started getting tight after a couple of turns. The temptation is to just keep turning it in. Bad idea.  ;D A tap cleans is out..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zpsfc627380.jpg)
On the other side, there was a lot of space between the manifold and head. Hmmm. Took it back off and there was still a gasket in it. The DPO had two of them on it. Wonder why? Leaking at one time? Carelesness?  ~; At any rate, it was really stuck in there, and painted in. Here's another tool that will save much frustration and time. It makes pulling cotter pins a breeze, and hooked the back edge of the old gasket and levered it out.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps51f7e2cb.jpg)
 
Installed the copper transmission breather line I made the other day.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zps4636645d.jpg)
Exhaust, and miscellaneous bits..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zpsc814e05c.jpg)
Not much left to do.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps99ed8e6a.jpg)
Unfortunately, the oil pressure sender has gone udders skyward during all this. <Sigh> Ordered one from Mrs. Eish, and she said, "Boy, Guzzi wants a lot for that switch, I think you could get it cheaper from MG Cycle."  ;D ;D I told her to just send it. After the 20% discount they give MGNOC members, it was only 3 or 4 dollars difference. At any rate, if I had half a brain I wouldn't do the initial start up without a functioning oil pressure sender..  ;) :BEER:
edit for yet another typo..
 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Morizzi on March 24, 2013, 07:34:09 AM

 A certain down under guy I know would have seen the choices, fluorescent green, blue, yellow, and this color, and would have put a blue on one side and green on the other.  ;D  
 

Actually Chuck there are a couple of us with colour preferences. I'm sure Pete would have gone for the 'shock' factor.

I'd have gone for the red and green combination for that 'nautical' touch.  :BEER: You could have also gone for the Italian ignition system (reverse nautical) and gone red on the right, green on the left to match the ignition trigger circuits.  :D

IME its quite common to find 2 gaskets for either the inlet or exhaust manifolds. Any poor running is often attributed to air leaks on the inlet side and popping on the over run to the exhaust. I'm not saying they were the reasons but they are often dealt with in the descending order of suspects, just in case.

Mrs Eish? Great to hear her name and know the business is still running in its time honoured manner. I had the privilege to deal with the Eish family when I was there a few years ago. I have a photo of Joe with his Guzzi servi car at the Ohio rally up in the panhandle, priceless.  ;-T

The spring, yes, for such a small inexpensive item it does such a good job. I have found generic springs that fit and suffice.

I usually remove the normal phillips head bolts for the vacuum gauges in the inlets and change them to cap screws. Down the track I just find the allen head gives me the purchase I may need if they decide to get a bit stubborn.

The speedo drive. There is just a wire circlip that holds the whole thing together on the back. Check out the teeth at that point. If the 'tang' was split then there is a good chance that the helical teeth are worn. You can change the contact point by placing a washer under the long drive pin. You may need to pull the brass part off the draw file it down to size t reduce friction. Grease it good before putting it back together. I'm not too sure I was clear in my description but I am more than confident that you will understand as soon as you undo the drive.

Looking good Chuck.

Cheers

Rod
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 24, 2013, 08:13:17 AM
Thanks, Rod. I try to buy from the local people.. Ohio and Wisconsin  ;D whenever possible. The Eish's have many unusual parts. For instance, a few cents got me the rubber tip for the kickstand deployment arm. Gordon and Cheeshead don't deal with that sort of stuff.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 24, 2013, 06:57:15 PM
I've heeded the warnings about making sure to get a full 1 liter of 80-145 in the transmission, even though "the book" says 900cc, so I put it on the sidestand, and used this leftover container for a measure. 900cc, then 100cc. Let it drain for a while to make sure all was in. Just for sh!ts and giggles, I capped it, put it on the center stand, and pulled the plug. Sure enough, the oil level was right at the bottom of the level plug.  ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps89ae3e07.jpg)
A few pages back Ron was talking up Maguire's Ultimate compound, so since I'm a believer too, here's the before and after. It doesn't show as well in pictures as in real life. What it *does* show is how well the kid's mom matched the color.  ;-T I need to go to the paint store and give her props.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zpsfa0bc10e.jpg)
After
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zps67b9e7d2.jpg)
Putting more pieces on, and the Gaudy Gaiters aren't so Ghastly now.  ;D At least, to my eye..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/014_zpsec00b813.jpg)
Dummied up the new Lemon 4 windscreen, and I don't hate it as much as I thought. I was fully prepared to saw off the kickup.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/015_zpsd71ec8b5.jpg)
Hmm, I like the view from the pilot's seat.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016-1_zps8410b79d.jpg)
Time to set it on the floor, put the seat on it, and sit on it and make vroom vroom noises.  ;D
First picture of it on the floor with most of the stuff on it.. be still, my beating heart.  ;D I love the dated classic 80s Italian sport bike styling.. ;-T
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/017_zps321a4481.jpg)
Juan motime.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/018_zps48a892df.jpg)
Decided to go ahead and mount the windshield. It's real fun to hold that bottom nut without breaking the windshield. The DPO had already done that on both the lower screws on the OEM one..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/019_zps24c04756.jpg)
Uh oh.. the other 5 holes lined up ok.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/022_zpsee894f4a.jpg)
Here's a trick I learned many years ago. I machine lots of plastic, and was looking for a drill bit to do deep holes. These 1 flute drills were designed to drill deep holes in brass, a grabby material, and I gave them a try. They worked..ok.. for what I was doing at the time, but just for grins I tried them in thin plexiglass. You know how if you try to drill plexiglass with a standard drill it will grab and crack it? Normally, you grind a negative rake on the drill bit and melt your way through, or use a soldering iron.
These 1 flute drills will drill through plexiglass with impunity, even when there's an interrupted cut like a partial hole.  :o  I've used them on (outrageously expensive where you *absolutely* don't want to screw up) aircraft windshields for years without a glitch. That's my very own discovery, patent pending.  ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/024_zps698472e3.jpg)
Of course, the fairing material isn't as fragile, but still....
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/025_zps13125127.jpg)
That's my Tool Tip for the Day.  ;D
Windshield done.
Not much left to do. I scrounged a pretty beat up chin fairing off Ebay.. Cheap.. ;D and will take a look at mounting it tomorrow.

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Mark West on March 24, 2013, 07:17:48 PM
I found the fairing to work amazingly well on my LMIV. Very easy to ride at high speeds.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: s_ellinson on March 24, 2013, 07:28:28 PM
It's all looking very good. A word of warning on the speedo drive boxes (I'm sure you know this already though) they're flimsy little things and the tang often breaks because they lose all their lubrication and get stiff - there should be a grease point on the top, but failing that they can be stripped carfully and packed with lubricant. The teeth have been known to strip if the get too stiff, but the drive tang usually fails first!..

Stewart
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 25, 2013, 05:43:21 AM
I found the fairing to work amazingly well on my LMIV. Very easy to ride at high speeds.

Agreed. I was surprised at how well the fairing and short windscreen worked for me. I'll ride it with this extended windscreen and see what it is like.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 25, 2013, 07:20:33 AM
Well, the oil pressure sender is supposed to arrive today, so the plan was to do the break in and take her for a ride. Looking out the window this morning..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zpsacc79429.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Pizza Guzzi on March 25, 2013, 07:59:54 AM
That bike is a credit to you sir and I admit that I have never heard of a 1 flute drill - thank you for enlightening me !

Glenn.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 25, 2013, 09:36:32 AM
It is my understanding that the tranny fill/check plug is lower on earlier bikes and moved up on later bikes. I believe this is stated in Guzziology. Just saying its important to know if you check fluid levels via the hole.

I like the shine factor of that Maguires. Will look into that.

Report back about that screen. I had the MRI on my V11 Lemans that swept up like that. Found the stock screen to run much smoother air. Wondering if this will be the case with yours. Air is not the problem. Turbulent air is.

I had my oil sender go belly up also. Seems they don't last forever.

I don't have a tang on my speed from PO. Made up something on my own. Works fine.

Great job and hope start-up happens soon.

Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 25, 2013, 10:33:17 AM
It is my understanding that the tranny fill/check plug is lower on earlier bikes and moved up on later bikes. I believe this is stated in Guzziology. Just saying its important to know if you check fluid levels via the hole.

I like the shine factor of that Maguires. Will look into that.

Report back about that screen. I had the MRI on my V11 Lemans that swept up like that. Found the stock screen to run much smoother air. Wondering if this will be the case with yours. Air is not the problem. Turbulent air is.

I had my oil sender go belly up also. Seems they don't last forever.

I don't have a tang on my speed from PO. Made up something on my own. Works fine.

Great job and hope start-up happens soon.

Kevin

Yeah, I liked the short screen because of my helmet being in smooth air. The jury is out on the extended one, but I'll report back. I *think* I got a good repair with the silver brazing.. we'll see.  First startup will probably delayed while we go to California and visit the Scura, roar around in the canyons, and hang out with SoCal Guzzi hooligans grandkids.  ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: canuck750 on March 25, 2013, 11:05:30 PM
Looking great Chuck, you have worked wonders on this bike!

Cheers
Jim
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 26, 2013, 10:24:35 AM
Looking great Chuck, you have worked wonders on this bike!

Cheers
Jim

Thanks, Jim. It *does* look better than it did, but wouldn't have taken much.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: jdgretz on March 26, 2013, 10:47:19 AM
Give a shout when you get out here, Chuck.

jdg
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 26, 2013, 10:50:26 AM
Ran into a snag when I started to install the chin fairing. The mounts came with the bike, but were bent up. I straightened them and installed them the way they were when I put the frame on the engine. Giving it a good look, the D side goes on the outside of the frame... so, off with the exhaust, support the engine, tap the bolt back, put the mount on the other side of the frame.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps3f375128.jpg)
Install the fairing, and put the exhaust back on.
Unfortunately, now it'll be necessary to *pull the freakin exhaust to remove the chin fairing to change the oil filter.*  ::) No, using a hex bolt won't help. There's not enough clearance between the header and fairing to get a bolt of any kind in there. See Norge, 07, checking the oil, for service accessibility problems, just another in a long tradition..  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps33485e76.jpg)
Well, I'm going to run it anyway. I think it *could* help cool the oil a little. I can see why you don't see many chin fairings in service, though. What a PITA..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zps1be5cfe9.jpg)
That said, it took less than an hour to do the whole deal and take pictures.
I'm seriously running out of things to do, now. One other thing. The front fender mount is just that. They use a rubber bushing, and the nicely made stamped with stiffeners steel mount does nothing for fork stiffness. I would think that making delrin bushings *might* stiffen up the front end. A little. <shrug> I don't have any black delrin, but maybe Ed the Rocket Scientist does..down at the other shop. Back later.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsf1f8dcf8.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 26, 2013, 10:51:19 AM
Give a shout when you get out here, Chuck.

jdg

I'll do that. Rock Store Friday for lunch?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 26, 2013, 01:41:05 PM
Let us know about the Delrin bushings. 

Chin fairing came off my bike a long time ago.  A PITA on oil changes as you said.  I have the sump spacer now anyhow. Best cooling method IMO.

Looks about ready for blast-off!
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Tazturtle on March 26, 2013, 04:15:41 PM
Wow she is looking beautiful! Not bad for a "clean up"!!!

This thread is a real credit to your craftmanship, mechanical knowhow, attention to detail and generosity in sharing your outstanding work with the Guzzi community. You also do the SB owners proud ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 26, 2013, 05:18:49 PM
Wow she is looking beautiful! Not bad for a "clean up"!!!

This thread is a real credit to your craftmanship, mechanical knowhow, attention to detail and generosity in sharing your outstanding work with the Guzzi community. You also do the SB owners proud ;)

<blush> Thank You! I'll have to get a bigger helmet.  ;D I truly hope that this has been a benefit to someone other than me. I've had a *great* time doing it.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Mark West on March 26, 2013, 05:26:15 PM
Fast from the past may have a fork brace for the Lario. If they don't have one listed, give them a call. Very helpful for me when I was working on rearsets and clipons for my LMIV.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 26, 2013, 05:28:49 PM
Fast from the past may have a fork brace for the Lario. If they don't have one listed, give them a call. Very helpful for me when I was working on rearsets and clipons for my LMIV.

Thanks for that, Mark.. I'll google them.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 26, 2013, 05:52:22 PM
Well, Ed didn't have any black delrin, but he had some electric blue.  ;D I knew that Phil would give me grief for using that, so I found some dark brown..
Sawed off a chunk.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps7da91cd4.jpg)
Even my little toy lathe can make short work of plastic.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps4a7dbb65.jpg)
The little lathe came with an indexable tool post, so it's easy to put a turning tool in one side, cut the diameter, index it, and cut it off. A dial indicator on a magnetic base gives depth measurements. I would never advise anyone to buy a cheapie lathe like this, but sometimes it's just the ticket.  ;) <shrug> It's *not* as accurate as a "real" lathe, but if you know it's limitations you can crank out little stuff like this all day.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zps353bd674.jpg)
So, this is the end. Last job. Will it make a difference? Probably not..  ;D but it was FREE. Didn't have to buy any rubber bushings.. ;) Shoulda used the blue.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps9925a10d.jpg)
To those that have hung in there, I hope it has been half the fun that I've had.  I'll post a video of the first startup after I get back from the visit to the.... uh.... grandkids. ;D
edit for another typo. Getting old is a beoytch..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: jdgretz on March 26, 2013, 10:55:09 PM
I'll do that. Rock Store Friday for lunch?

Always - we had three Guzzis there last week.  That was the 2013 SoCal NOTA rally I guess  ;D  Who knows we might beat the record and have four when you get here.  I'll PM you my phone number.

jdg
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on March 27, 2013, 06:46:38 AM
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps9925a10d.jpg)
To those that have hung in there, I hope it has been half the fun that I've had.  I'll post a video of the first startup after I get back from the visit to the.... uh.... grandkids. ;D
edit for another typo. Getting old is a beoytch..

As I and others already stated - GREAT thread. GREAT result  ;-T  ;-T  ;-T I'm all fired up about getting started for real on my next Lario. Lot’s of parts already done and ready.

Regarding the front fender, some folks got the idea of installing 18" wheels on the Lario. Rumors are it's easy. You raise the front fender with bushes and longer bolts, and fix it up with an LM1000/750 Targa 18” front wheel, and a Targa/750SP/V75-4/750 Strada rear wheel, but with a slight odd tire. To avoid the rear wheel scraping against the rear fender, the tire must be a 120/80-18. Its profile is slightly lower than the more normal 120/90-18.
Just a thought when I saw you made these gizmos for the front fender braze. I'm staying with the 16" wheel base. If I want long legs I'll ride the Targa  ;D

Looking forward to watch you firing her up  ;-T

Ciao
Brian
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 27, 2013, 06:50:12 AM
Always - we had three Guzzis there last week.  That was the 2013 SoCal NOTA rally I guess  ;D  Who knows we might beat the record and have four when you get here.  I'll PM you my phone number.

jdg

I'll send you mine, too.  
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: huub on March 27, 2013, 11:59:29 AM
fitting a 18 inch rear wheel to a lario is not the best idea,
the lario has a tall gearing to begin with, so fitting a bigger rear wheel will result in a bike that reaches top speed in fourth gear, and has the fifth gear as a pretty useless overdive.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: biking sailor on March 27, 2013, 12:23:10 PM
 :bow
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on March 27, 2013, 12:52:12 PM
fitting a 18 inch rear wheel to a lario is not the best idea,
the lario has a tall gearing to begin with, so fitting a bigger rear wheel will result in a bike that reaches top speed in fourth gear, and has the fifth gear as a pretty useless overdive.


You may be right right. The Targa has the same primary gearing as the Lario, but with 18" wheels. The 4V mill delivers a more linier tourque curve than the Lario, so here it works - if my memory serves me right the Targa will deliver 110Mph at around 6500rpm in 5th and it will deliver - been there, done that  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Stormtruck2 on March 27, 2013, 05:10:47 PM
Chuck, if your bored and looking for things to do, feel free to come on over and help redo the Eldo.  You do it, I'll watch and learn.  Much faster that way, for both of us.  :D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 27, 2013, 09:00:21 PM
Great job Chuck and a great resource for the Lario small block folks to reference.  ;-T  Can't wait to hear it!  :BEER:
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 28, 2013, 08:56:02 AM
Chuck, if your bored and looking for things to do, feel free to come on over and help redo the Eldo.  You do it, I'll watch and learn.  Much faster that way, for both of us.  :D

Thanks, anyway, Matt.  ;D Spending a Winter fooling with my stuff is play. I built an airplane for someone else one time. It only took 12 years.  :o That was work, a four letter word.. :D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 28, 2013, 09:30:46 AM
Thanks, anyway, Matt.  ;D Spending a Winter fooling with my stuff is play. I built an airplane for someone else one time. It only took 12 years.  :o That was work, a four letter word.. :D :BEER:

I know a motorcycle that might take that long!  ::)
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on March 28, 2013, 12:00:04 PM
Quick question. Did you use clearcoat when you painted the bodywork?  Did you wet-sand the final coat or simply use the Maguire's compound. My buddy wants to know since he just painted his fairing for his Sport.
Thanks
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: canuck750 on March 28, 2013, 12:28:58 PM
I tip my hat! there does not seem to be anything you don't do yourself :+1

I have never worked with delrin, is it plyable? Looks like a nice material to machine and the spacers you made look first rate! I don't know where to find delrin, to be honest nver heard of it before.

I keep re-reading your post for ideas, and I keep learning from your work. ;-T

Thanks for posting!

Jim

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 28, 2013, 02:58:56 PM
Quick question. Did you use clearcoat when you painted the bodywork?  Did you wet-sand the final coat or simply use the Maguire's compound. My buddy wants to know since he just painted his fairing for his Sport.
Thanks
Kevin

No, It's just an enamel with hardener. I left it as sprayed, no wet sanding or clear coat.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 28, 2013, 03:10:05 PM
I tip my hat! there does not seem to be anything you don't do yourself :+1

I have never worked with delrin, is it plyable? Looks like a nice material to machine and the spacers you made look first rate! I don't know where to find delrin, to be honest nver heard of it before.

I keep re-reading your post for ideas, and I keep learning from your work. ;-T

Thanks for posting!

Jim


Delrin is an engineering plastic with natural lubricity. It is easy to machine, holds tolerances fairly well, and used for bushings, wear plates, etc. Any industrial plastics supplier will have it.

Quote
I tip my hat! there does not seem to be anything you don't do yourself :+1

Thanks for that.  I've always said I'm a Chuck of all trades, master of none..  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on March 28, 2013, 04:42:12 PM
I tip my hat! there does not seem to be anything you don't do yourself :+1

I have never worked with delrin, is it plyable? Looks like a nice material to machine and the spacers you made look first rate! I don't know where to find delrin, to be honest nver heard of it before.

I keep re-reading your post for ideas, and I keep learning from your work. ;-T

Thanks for posting!

Jim



McMaster-Carr has it: http://www.mcmaster.com/#delrin-(made-with-acetal-resin)/=m2v5m0
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: canuck750 on March 28, 2013, 05:50:34 PM
Delrin is an engineering plastic with natural lubricity. It is easy to machine, holds tolerances fairly well, and used for bushings, wear plates, etc. Any industrial plastics supplier will have it.

Thanks for this, I will see if I can locate some.

Jim
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on March 28, 2013, 09:25:36 PM
McMaster-Carr has it: http://www.mcmaster.com/#delrin-(made-with-acetal-resin)/=m2v5m0

Ed buys from McMaster -Carr a lot. This is what I used. It's a good material for this application.

Ultra-Wear-Resistant PTFE-Filled Delrin® Acetal Resin
Color: Brown
Temperature Range: -40° to 185° F
Tensile Strength: Good
Impact Strength: Poor
The addition of PTFE to Delrin® acetal resin provides this water-resistant material with a more slippery, wear-resistant surface. Material is also known as Delrin® acetal resin AF.

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: IceBlue on April 12, 2013, 07:09:48 AM
Chuck
Have you have a chance to fire her up ???
I'd sure like to read your report  :)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 12, 2013, 09:30:19 AM
Chuck
Have you have a chance to fire her up ???
I'd sure like to read your report  :)

Nope, I'm still out in California. When I get home, I have a j jjj job  ;D to do before I can play again. It'll probably be another week or so..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 20, 2013, 11:59:43 AM
While I was out in California visiting the Scura and roaring around in the canyons kids and grandkids, the oil pressure sender came in the mail. It's for the V65 only. Wonder what's up with that? Guzzi about always uses what they have laying around.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/062_zps577b5e03.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/062_zps577b5e03.jpg.html)
Installed it, and have an oil pressure light, now. I think we're about ready for start up. But first..
Let's see if we can repair (sort of) that rip on the seat.
The cover is held on by some bent over tabs and contact cement. Bend up the tabs..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/046_zps91903ca3.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/046_zps91903ca3.jpg.html)
Pull the cover loose from the contact cement so you can get to the back side.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/048_zps1403334b.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/048_zps1403334b.jpg.html)
Get your Mechanic's Embroidery Hoops  ;D and some aircraft fabric.
Shrink it so when you heat it with the iron after gluing down it won't make a pucker.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/054_zps9142167f.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/054_zps9142167f.jpg.html)
Aircraft pinking shears make a nice dollar patch with lots of area to stick down.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/056_zpse8e10af7.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/056_zpse8e10af7.jpg.html)
The Poly fiber process is vinyl based,
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/055_zps8f926427.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/055_zps8f926427.jpg.html)
 so I'm guessing that it will be compatible with a vinyl repair kit for the visible part.. <shrug> dunno. Never have tried something like this.
Plenty of glue, then apply heat with the iron.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/057_zps3cbb8899.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/057_zps3cbb8899.jpg.html)
Contact cement on both the seat pan and cover. Let is sit for 20 minutes or so until it's no longer tacky.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/058_zps40cb3853.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/058_zps40cb3853.jpg.html)
Stretch the cover back over the tabs and peen them back down. Get it as tight as you can. Good luck with that.. ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/059_zpsfac15d69.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/059_zpsfac15d69.jpg.html)
Well at least it looks better than the one it came with, and I won't have to worry about the tear getting worse. (I hope) I'll (yuck) BUY  :o a cheap vinyl repair kit and see if I can fake the repair to look less noticeable.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/063_zps18bcd4d0.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/063_zps18bcd4d0.jpg.html)
Well, I think that is the last of it. Time to see if it will run. It should, of course.. all the parts are in the engine.  ;D Unless there was a reason for 2 intake gaskets on the S cylinder, or powering the Dyna through the low beam switch on the switchgear was a better idea than I thought, it should start right up.
Back later..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: dblue on April 20, 2013, 12:37:16 PM
Chuck.
The reason the oil sender is different, it locates the upper cam thrust bearing.

Dave
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 20, 2013, 01:13:52 PM
Chuck.
The reason the oil sender is different, it locates the upper cam thrust bearing.

Dave

Thanks, Dave.. I just *assumed* the cases on the small blocks were essentially the same.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 20, 2013, 01:25:06 PM
Thanks, Dave.. I just *assumed* the cases on the small blocks were essentially the same.

They are. The reason the V65 has a different sender is due to the elimination of the separate cam locating piece ued on the earlier small-blocks. On the V50 II for instance, there was a crush washer, locking plate (to keep the locating piece from loosening), another crush washer, the cam locating piece, yet another crush washer, then finally the sending unit. Lots of opportunity for leaks with three crush washers. They just simplified it on the V65 and lessened the chance of leaks as well.   
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 20, 2013, 01:52:51 PM
Alrighty, now.. the rehabbed Lario is out in the daylight for the first time since last fall..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps22fe4260.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/002-6_zps22fe4260.jpg.html)
An obviously unedited first start up video..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/th_001-4_zps9a3e597c.jpg) (http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps9a3e597c.mp4)
Being a manufacturer myself, I pay attention to the directions a manufacturer gives you. Millenium says to let it idle for 15 minutes to break in the cylinders. <shrug> Never have heard of such a thing, but I did it. Naturally, as it warmed up it atomized fuel better and some of the cold start lumpiness went away.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps3d409c46.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003-6_zps3d409c46.jpg.html)

So that's it. Nothing left to do but ride it, with any luck at all.  ;D For those of you that have hung in there, I hope some of this has been useful. I had a great time doing it..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: wrbix on April 20, 2013, 02:07:31 PM
we had a great time following it! Many thanks.
Congratulations, looks great!

(Scavenged runway directional markers?)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Unkept on April 20, 2013, 02:21:36 PM
It lives!  ;-T

The red fork gaiters ad 5 hp!

Great work, let us know how it rides.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: John Ulrich on April 20, 2013, 03:27:09 PM
Looks great!    ;-T

What's that green stuff in the background?  Up here grass is.....white!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 20, 2013, 04:37:03 PM
we had a great time following it! Many thanks.
Congratulations, looks great!

(Scavenged runway directional markers?)
Yeah, that runway marker was one of my better projects. I saw several different ones, apparently from an airport that got new signage at the fly mart at Oshkosh before it opened, spied the 18-36, and thought, "perfect. If it isn't outrageously expensive, I'm going to get it." Got in line early, went directly to this one, and it was marked $40.  :o Had Dorcia stand there and guard it while I went and paid. It had a huge transformer in it that was tits up, and two 50 watt halogen bulbs. Ran to Lowe's and bought a timer and 2 bulbs for like $29, made some bulb holders, cleaned it up and painted it and Viola!  ;D Makes a killer night light.. if you're an airplane guy.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 20, 2013, 04:51:40 PM
It lives!  ;-T

The red fork gaiters ad 5 hp!

Great work, let us know how it rides.

And.. gives me an opportunity to yank Phil's chain.  ;D ~;
Just got back from the first ride. It's like having a new motorcycle.  ;) Started bedding in the brakes, and they get better with each application. The electrical system is now working correctly. It feels tight, and is fun to ride.  What's not to like? Ran it up to 80 a couple of times, took the rpm to 6K 3 or 4 times, did a fair amount of probably 3/4 throttle acceleration and closed throttle deceleration to help with break in. Brought it back and put it in the Guzzi Garage (tm) to look it over. I think I heard Rosie grumbling under her breath.. at any rate, it looks good. No weeps, etc.  ;-T Smells like a new one, too. About broke my arm patting myself on the back. ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: wrbix on April 20, 2013, 05:13:04 PM
Yeah, that runway marker was one of my better projects. I saw several different ones, apparently from an airport that got new signage at the fly mart at Oshkosh before it opened, spied the 18-36, and thought, "perfect. If it isn't outrageously expensive, I'm going to get it." Got in line early, went directly to this one, and it was marked $40.  :o Had Dorcia stand there and guard it while I went and paid. It had a huge transformer in it that was tits up, and two 50 watt halogen bulbs. Ran to Lowe's and bought a timer and 2 bulbs for like $29, made some bulb holders, cleaned it up and painted it and Viola!  ;D Makes a killer night light.. if you're an airplane guy.

Great idea - will keep my eye out - KCDK about to get a major upgrade which will likely include new signage.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: wrbix on April 20, 2013, 05:16:18 PM
About broke my arm patting myself on the back. ;D :BEER:

And well you should. Congratulations on a job well done!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on April 20, 2013, 05:23:02 PM
 Hooray ;D This has been fascinating :bow
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Stormtruck2 on April 20, 2013, 05:42:42 PM
Next???  We're waiting ! 8)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: canuck750 on April 20, 2013, 06:26:42 PM
GREAT looking bike, your rebuild is an inspiration! :+1

Looking forward to your next build ;-T

Jim
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 20, 2013, 06:42:35 PM
GREAT looking bike, your rebuild is an inspiration! :+1

Looking forward to your next build ;-T

Jim

High praise indeed. Your RESTORATION is to die for.. this is not in your league.. just a repair and renovate. Cheap.  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: canuck750 on April 20, 2013, 07:06:01 PM
Your far too humble Chuck! You tackle every job out there, I m hunting down Delrin right now based upon your experience. ;-T
Its easy to replace with new, salvaging old parts and bringing them back to a new life is a real skill. I hope others will follow your example and delve into their own machines and savour the satisfaction of being able to repair and maintain their own bikes.

Jim
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 20, 2013, 07:07:56 PM
Quote
Looking forward to your next build

My next, and probably last  :( project will be this '30 Monocoupe that I picked up from a museum in Maine a few years ago. Cheap. (Guzzi content)  ;D It's been an ongoing project since the 50's by several different guys. I'll pull the fabric off and start from much farther back than it is. No telling what is underneath it, and I want to *know* if I (and Brad and Nora, the eventual caretakers) are going to fly it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/mono.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/mono.jpg.html)
Here's the engine, a '30 Lambert 90 hp 5 cylinder radial with greased rockers, etc. This airplane held the transcontinental speed record for a while. 110 mph.  ;D Charlie Lindbergh had one just like it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/engine.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/engine.jpg.html)
Airplanes take freakin forever (comparatively) to restore..I can see hundreds of hours making louver dies and forming sheet metal, etc. , but are rewarding, too, in their own way.  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Stormtruck2 on April 20, 2013, 07:28:19 PM
Out of curiousity, what all ratings and certs do you hold Chuck? SEL,MEL,Commerical, ATP, Inst,CFII, Rotary, AP?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 20, 2013, 07:40:30 PM
Out of curiousity, what all ratings and certs do you hold Chuck? SEL,MEL,Commerical, ATP, Inst,CFII, Rotary, AP?

Just a simple PASEL and an A&P. I only "play" with airplanes. All that other stuff would be "work". Not interested.  ;D It surprised me when I was out riding the Mighty Scura in California with JDG, that posts on this list occasionally. We were eating lunch, started talking airplanes,etc. and he's flown em all. Fixed wing, rotary wing, instrument instructor, jets, you name it.  :bow I had no idea.. just another Guzzi Guy.  ;-T You meet the most interesting Characters on a Guzzi... 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Stormtruck2 on April 20, 2013, 07:48:52 PM
I'm type rated for a flivver.  ;) :D 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Cal3Me on April 20, 2013, 11:32:16 PM
Chuck ,,,,,how about a sound bite to a link for the finishing touch ?? ;-T :BEER: :BEER:

Nice job !


,,,,,,Tim
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 21, 2013, 07:37:17 AM
Chuck ,,,,,how about a sound bite to a link for the finishing touch ?? ;-T :BEER: :BEER:

Nice job !


,,,,,,Tim

Thanks, Tim. Just click on the pitcher.  ;) I don't particularly care for the sound of the Emgos. Maybe some Peashooters?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/th_001-4_zps9a3e597c.jpg) (http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps9a3e597c.mp4)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on April 21, 2013, 09:41:54 AM
Congrats Chuck on this project and its success.  ;-T  Given us all some knowledge to work from as well as inspiration to dig in ourselves (time permitting someday) on our own gems.  My project is moving slower than yours.... but it's moving!  May have to add the faster red gators for the extra horses necessary to compete with yours.  :P
Keep us posted on more ride reports and changes you make.  You will have a killer time on your outings and forays now that you have a runner.  Best kept secret of the bunch.
Enjoy!
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: bad Chad on April 21, 2013, 05:26:57 PM
Well done, now I can go to bed a happy man. :)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: mwrenn on April 21, 2013, 07:07:19 PM
Ah man, its good to see another Lario ready to roll!  Nice work!  BTW, if you want to try some peashooters, pm me your address and I will send you a set.  Im not going to be needing them.
Cheers!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 21, 2013, 07:21:24 PM
Ah man, its good to see another Lario ready to roll!  Nice work!  BTW, if you want to try some peashooters, pm me your address and I will send you a set.  Im not going to be needing them.
Cheers!

Wow! Gotta love this list.. ;-T  I *would* like to try some. PM on it's way..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: kevdog3019 on April 21, 2013, 10:37:25 PM
What are these so called pea-shooters?
-K
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: balvenie on April 21, 2013, 11:10:15 PM
          Brilliant ;D ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: mwrenn on April 21, 2013, 11:49:32 PM
What are these so called pea-shooters?
-K

Peashooter mufflers from a Norton Commando.  You gotta use the big bore ones, 1 1/2 inch ID.
http://www.commandospecialties.com/Prod_Detail.asp?MSecID=53&ProdID=19
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Doug McLaren on April 22, 2013, 10:11:07 AM
Fantastic work Chuck, it's been educational and inspirational watching you bring this one back to life.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 25, 2013, 11:19:10 AM
Just an update. Apparently Photobucket it tits up, so no pictures. It let me upload them, but won't give me a link. <shrug> Some things aren't meant to be understood. If/when they get their act together I'll post em up.
At any rate, after the 5 heat/cool cycles I torqued the heads and adjusted the valves. Checked compression, and the D cylinder was still 76/80.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zpsfde0a942.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001-4_zpsfde0a942.jpg.html)
The repaired cylinder was 78/80. (!) You seldom see one with this little leakage. Apparently Millenium knew what they were talking about when they said to let it idle for 15 minutes for break in.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps7d581e17.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/002-6_zps7d581e17.jpg.html)
 Checked the timing at full advance with my antique  ::) timing light. Looks good.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpscbce6cc0.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003-6_zpscbce6cc0.jpg.html)
 Balanced the carbs with my toxic mercury sticks as best I could. Not perfect. One of the things I haven't done is go through the carbs and cables..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps3c7352d3.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/004-4_zps3c7352d3.jpg.html)
At any rate, it looks like we'll be roaring around at Ron's rally this weekend.  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 30, 2013, 06:02:37 PM
Had a good time at Ron's rally. Did a 250 mile ride with Beardog and his 1200 sport, everything from mild twistys to roaring back for dinner on the interstate. The Beater Lario did very well.  ;-T
I never did particularly like the looks of the LeMans windshield, and if anything I had cleaner air on my faceshield with the original shape.
So.. some striping tape and some Mark one eyeball applied.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zpsf1a4ffc4.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/002-6_zpsf1a4ffc4.jpg.html)
When you are band sawing (the best way to cut plastic like this) you want to have at least 3 teeth in the material at all times. This windshield is 1/8" thick, so we need a blade with 24 teeth per inch. In to the saw blade catacombs for some band saw stock that will work..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpseb0ad682.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003-6_zpseb0ad682.jpg.html)
I have marks all along the front of my workbench for band saw lengths..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps9ad9ce62.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/004-4_zps9ad9ce62.jpg.html)
Tin snips cuts it to the right length..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps2939543d.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/005-4_zps2939543d.jpg.html)
Welding a band saw blade is almost a lost art, but my antique DoAll welder (much better than the crap that is passed off as a band saw blade welder any more) made short work of it. Here, it's welded, and I am bringing it up to carrot color and letting it cool slowly. (Annealing)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps99c8317a.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/006-4_zps99c8317a.jpg.html)
Grinding both sides flush, and making it flat with a double cut bastard file..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zps0e0d2916.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/007-5_zps0e0d2916.jpg.html)
Color drawing it for the final anneal..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zpsc8dc21a9.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/008-4_zpsc8dc21a9.jpg.html)
And we have a brand new band saw blade. It took considerably longer to tell about it.. yada yada.. ;D
Remove the old 4 tooth per inch blade.. trying to cut the windshield with it wouldn't have turned out well..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps9e54e920.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/009-2_zps9e54e920.jpg.html)
Have you ever noticed when you buy (crazy talk) ;D a new band saw blade how they are coiled up neatly? Here's how it is done. Step on the bottom and rotate your hand.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010-2_zps6b47e9cf.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/010-2_zps6b47e9cf.jpg.html)
Keep rotating it, and 3 coils magically appear. ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zps27388293.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/011-3_zps27388293.jpg.html)
Like this..
Now you can put a couple of twisty ties on it and save it for the next time you are cutting 1 1/4" stock.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zps653495ac.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/012-2_zps653495ac.jpg.html)
This is called a pecker.  :o I don't know why, the original meaning must be lost in the annuals of time. <shrug> I made this one years ago for another saw, but it will work in a pinch on this job.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps73ff9ad4.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/013_zps73ff9ad4.jpg.html)
At any rate, here is the pecker in use. No need to worry about trying to keep the windshield flat on the table (can't be done on this one) If thin plastic isn't supported, there is a very good chance of cracking it and ruining your day. ;)
Nothing to it..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/015_zps6b07f4fe.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/015_zps6b07f4fe.jpg.html)
Sand the sawed edge. Pretend that sanding is as good as it will get, and try to get all the saw marks out. They are stress risers, and might cause a crack some years down the road.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016-1_zps92564a53.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/016-1_zps92564a53.jpg.html)
Remember when we were doing the rotors that I said the tip of the cone is the hottest part of the flame? That still applies.  ;D What you want to do here is to smoothly and steadily pass the new edge of the windshield across the very end of the flame. You will see a purple area on both sides of the cut. Hard to explain. Too slow, and you will cause bubbles. Not good. Too fast and it won't melt the micro scratches together. Maybe practice a bit on the (scrap) cut off part if you havent done it before?  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/017_zps446ba15c.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/017_zps446ba15c.jpg.html)
Viola!
Ready to install.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/018_zps47544903.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/018_zps47544903.jpg.html)
There is one more trick I want to show you, but it will have to wait until tomorrow. Or later. It's supposed to be great riding weather tomorrow. ;D ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: wrbix on April 30, 2013, 06:55:29 PM
Man, is there nothing you can't do?
Wanna build me an airplane? ~;
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 30, 2013, 07:12:25 PM
Man, is there nothing you can't do?
Wanna build me an airplane? ~;
There are *lots* of things I can't do.. ;D
BTDT. Got the T shirt. Don't want another.. ~; :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 01, 2013, 10:38:34 AM
That's what I'm talking about.. ;D Took it for a ride this morning, and besides looking better (to me) without the kickup on the windshield, there seems to be a little more air on my chest (good) and less on my face shield. (good, too.) Maybe Guzzi knew what they were doing? <shrug>
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps9ced48a4.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001-4_zps9ced48a4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: kevdog3019 on May 01, 2013, 01:04:53 PM
I didn't suspect you'd like it. They have the same thing on the MRA windscreen for the V11lemon and the stock screen is mucho mucho better for calm air. Don't like those kick ups!
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: SED on May 02, 2013, 12:35:56 AM
Great write-up Chuck!  My favorite on WildG.

Last year I used your description of drilling the pinion bearing oil passage in a smblock rear drive with great success.  Yesterday I stumbled across this post and have spent the last two evenings reading it all.  Your photos and narratives are very helpful - even for things I've already done.

You are a generous professional.  Thank you.

Shawn
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: IceBlue on May 02, 2013, 08:47:09 AM
Great thread Chuck. I'm exited about the startup. You did a great job. I haven't been able to follow you the last 14 days, since I was on vacation in China, and WG wouldn't let me access from China.

Now I never hope to hear about any valve issues  ;)
So far I have not had any drop on me or any other who use them.

Just took mine for another 50 mile spin today - purrs like a kitten.

Cheers
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 02, 2013, 09:07:46 AM
Great thread Chuck. I'm exited about the startup. You did a great job. I haven't been able to follow you the last 14 days, since I was on vacation in China, and WG wouldn't let me access from China.

Now I never hope to hear about any valve issues  ;)
So far I have not had any drop on me or any other who use them.

Just took mine for another 50 mile spin today - purrs like a kitten.

Cheers

I'd noticed that you had apparently dropped off the face of the earth.. ;D Can't have subversive stuff like old people talking about Guzzis getting the working man riled up, ya know. ;) So far, so good. I'll retorque the heads and check the valves again at the 500 mile oil and filter change. That's coming up shortly.. ;-T
edit:
The top ends sound like a bucket of hammers, but the Centauro did, too. I'll have to turn off my hearing aids when tuning.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: IceBlue on May 02, 2013, 12:44:56 PM
The top ends sound like a bucket of hammers, but the Centauro did, too. I'll have to turn off my hearing aids when tuning.

 :o  What clearence did you set??

When hot, I can hardly hear mine, and i can still get a 0.05mm gauge blade in there...  (hope that's the right name for this tool in English)
...and I still have normal hearing  ~;   ;) ;) ...my wife disagree though  :D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: kevdog3019 on May 02, 2013, 01:01:26 PM
Just little faint "ticks" here on mine also.   ???  I got the hammer death blows on the Lemon.  :P
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: IceBlue on May 02, 2013, 01:25:13 PM
...factory settings are 0.1mm in and 0.13mm ex.
Shop manual recommends taking a look at rocker arm play, if these values are correctly set and excessive top end noise is still present.

See page 161 in the SB shop manual, Imola II - Monza II - Lario section.

Ciao
Brian

Not trying to raise your blod pressure og give you a heart attact  ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 02, 2013, 01:52:00 PM
...factory settings are 0.1mm in and 0.13mm ex.
Shop manual recommends taking a look at rocker arm play, if these values are correctly set and excessive top end noise is still present.

See page 161 in the SB shop manual, Imola II - Monza II - Lario section.

Ciao
Brian

Not trying to raise your blod pressure og give you a heart attact  ;D :D ;)

I set them at .004" and .005" per the manual. They're not any noisier than the Centauro.. still sounds like a bucket of hammers. ;D I won't need to worry about that much longer though. One of the listers just sent me a set of pea shooters.
Looking down the bore.. :o
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zpsd83d94b7.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001-4_zpsd83d94b7.jpg.html)
To say they are a little raucous might be an understatement.. "valves, what valves?"
They sure are pretty, though. Headed off to get some oven cleaner...
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps156bc892.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/002-6_zps156bc892.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: SteveAZ on May 02, 2013, 03:33:39 PM
Fantastic bike, fantastic thread, fantastic work. Thank you for taking the time to document this great work you've done.  :bow ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: mwrenn on May 02, 2013, 09:10:01 PM
Those pipes do look good on there.  Did you notice the bike running lean at all?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 03, 2013, 06:48:53 AM
Those pipes do look good on there.  Did you notice the bike running lean at all?

Uh, yeah...   I've been holding off on going through the carbs until I decided what mufflers to run. It was a little lean at WFO, now it's a lot lean.  ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 03, 2013, 08:42:00 AM
Ok, lets see if we can camouflage that rip in the seat. I'd already pulled the cover back and glued a dollar patch on the back side, so I don't expect it to get any worse. A kit from Permatex has several colors that you can mix and match and never in a million years get right,  ;D some glue, patch material, and high tech applicator iron.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps2ba9d633.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003-6_zps2ba9d633.jpg.html)
There's also a spatula for applying the glue and colored material. Fill the tear with glue and let it sit for 4 hours. As far as I'm concerned, anything that requires solvent evaporation doesn't want to be hurried.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zpse600801c.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/004-4_zpse600801c.jpg.html)
I took a single edge razor blade and *carefully* trimmed the high spots.
I've had On the Job training for this operation. When I was about 3 years old, I had a little iron that was heated by laying it on Mother's iron. I ironed the hankies, and anything else that was flat. ;D Actually, I had Dorcia come out to the Guzzi Garage and hold it on the Ancient Airlines fabric shrinking iron while I applied the color and feathered it out with the cheapie spatula
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zpsf0927947.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001-4_zpsf0927947.jpg.html)
Here's what it looked like before ironing. There are 3 different grain texture release papers, none of which are remotely what you want..  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps1d8ec744.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/002-6_zps1d8ec744.jpg.html)
While the colored material is still tacky, put the paper over it, and apply the iron, constantly rotating it and moving it over the repair for 2-3 minutes. Let it cool and carefully remove the paper.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zpsaf1c33fa.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/004-4_zpsaf1c33fa.jpg.html)
Here's the finished repair. Probably a little better (although considerably more expensive) than a Magic Marker.. ;)
At least your eye doesn't immediately go to it. Even Dorcia, a picky inspector, says it's not bad.
One more little job off the list.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps1f772e55.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003-6_zps1f772e55.jpg.html)

 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 05, 2013, 06:24:33 PM
This is what it's all about. Rode 100 miles in light rain today to go to Guzzi lunch. She ran like a (really loud)  :o pickle seeder. The fairing works very well.. my legs hardly got wet.  Have I mentioned how much I like this little booger?  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zps2e93daff.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003-6_zps2e93daff.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Stormtruck2 on May 05, 2013, 06:30:24 PM
Looks like you picked a nice looking booger there Chuck.  When do you want to sell her??  ;) :D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Tazturtle on May 05, 2013, 06:43:31 PM
More nice work - the gaiters actually suit her too!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 05, 2013, 06:48:42 PM
More nice work - the gaiters actually suit her too!

Thanks. Lucky Phil gave me some grief about the Gaudy Gaiters (tm),  ;D but I thought they'd look ok once it was all together.
Matt.. sorry, she's a keeper.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: vbares on May 09, 2013, 07:25:54 AM
Great thread! Thanks for taking the time to document...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 09, 2013, 03:27:28 PM
Great thread! Thanks for taking the time to document...

My pleasure..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Bella on May 09, 2013, 09:34:36 PM
Chuck,

Beautiful job!  If you're ready for a seat next winter, this is the one I just finished for Kip.........(http://wildguzzi.com/Users/gileski/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Masters/2013/05/09/20130509-214456/DSCN1214.JPG)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 10, 2013, 10:56:51 AM
Chuck,

Beautiful job!  If you're ready for a seat next winter, this is the one I just finished for Kip.........(http://wildguzzi.com/Users/gileski/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Masters/2013/05/09/20130509-214456/DSCN1214.JPG)

Thanks! You have to use an off site photo host to post pictures now..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Bella on May 10, 2013, 08:29:40 PM
OK Chuck, I think this is it!(http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq70/Gile0730/DSCN1214_zps079640d1.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: kevdog3019 on May 10, 2013, 10:29:24 PM
I straightened mine out much more bench-like. That crevice where you sit is dangerous on your goodies. Put a piece of foam to fill and sit on it. Dense foam. Maybe not for height challenged folks with shorter legs is all. I can move back and forth now in the saddle.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: balvenie on May 11, 2013, 02:46:44 AM
           That red piping is pretty fancy, Bella ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Bella on May 11, 2013, 07:04:04 PM
Kip's Lario is the same red as the piping.  Seat was a bit of a bitch to work with, as it's a steel pan (not plastic), it was seriously flake rusted (like the foam must've sat wet for a long time) and the foam was basically petrified, so I had to start from scratch.  Stripped it to the steel, ground off most of the rust, added a 2" block of rebond foam, and carved it back to shape Kip's lil touche.  Then I ground out 1/2" of foam where your sitz-bones fall, added 1/2" of surgical gel, and covered the whole seat in 1/2" of less dense foam.  Covered the whole thing in a thin layer of plastic of avoid water penetration to the foam (if Kip get's caught in the rain).  Made a pattern out of muslin, cut and sticthed the leather and piping, assembled it and then used an industrial adhesive to attach it to the steel. 

Long job, but I'm pretty please with the result and think Kip will have a Happy Ass on those long rides!

Scott Gile
Happy Ass Seats
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 13, 2013, 11:10:46 AM
Down to the not much left stage, and yesterday I was out doing some jetting. At 7000 rpm the generator light suddenly came on and the lights went off.  :o It was still running, so I turned around and put it in the shed. Had to go to a party (retirement's tough)  ;D so couldn't look at it until this morning.
My first thought was fuse, but my normal troubleshooting checklist is this:
Have you been screwing with it?
Yes.
Look there first.  ;D
I did take a passing glance at the fuses on the way to the ignition switch. Once I took the fairing off, the pod off, the switch out of the pod, I hooked the battery back up, had 12 v on the red wire. Turned the switch on, and had power to the switched wires. WTF? ;D(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps8ad05b01.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001-4_zps8ad05b01.jpg.html)
Had another look at the fuses, and this one had failed. Not blown out, just failed..
Should have taken the effort to get a better picture, but it simply came apart on the end.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zpsf0970344.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/002-6_zpsf0970344.jpg.html)
When I originally went through it to go out west, I'd just sprayed the fuses,etc. with DeOxit, rotated the fuses, and called it good enough. Obviously, what I should have done is pull them out, brighten all the contacts with a stainless brush, spray with DeOxit, make sure the contacts are tight, and put new fuses in there. Guess which fuse had failed?  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003-6_zpsce4d3f2d.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003-6_zpsce4d3f2d.jpg.html)
So, this morning, I "did what I shoulda done" and should be good to go.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zpsae065b0f.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/004-4_zpsae065b0f.jpg.html)
I probably ought to buy (crazy talk, that would be $15) a modern fuse block with ato fuses..... but probably won't.  ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: dan_s on May 13, 2013, 11:34:43 AM
While you're at it, check if there's a fuse between the battery and the red+ wire to the switch. If there isn't I recommend that you put one. I managed to toast my loom when the red wire connector touched the fork clamps when I was working on the clockboard.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Guido Valvole on May 13, 2013, 11:52:55 AM
I've seen those old-style fuses fail when vibration gnawed the metal on the end caps where they (used to) make contact. Looks fine until I took it out…
cr
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 13, 2013, 01:12:26 PM
I've seen those old-style fuses fail when vibration gnawed the metal on the end caps where they (used to) make contact. Looks fine until I took it out…
cr


Yep, that's what happened. I pulled the sidecover off, fulling expecting to see a blown fuse, and when they looked ok, I *assumed* I'd pulled a wire partially loose in the ignition switch when I was putting everything back together. Only cost me an hour an a half to pull the windshield, pull the fairing, pull the pod, look at stuff, and put it all back together.   
Machine 1. Dummy 0.  ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: kevdog3019 on May 13, 2013, 02:04:28 PM
I replaced mind with the glass-type. Those just seem so archaic to me.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Update 4/25
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 13, 2013, 06:01:32 PM
While you're at it, check if there's a fuse between the battery and the red+ wire to the switch. If there isn't I recommend that you put one. I managed to toast my loom when the red wire connector touched the fork clamps when I was working on the clockboard.
I always unhook the negative when doing anything with the electrical system, or doing anything that might ground a hot wire. It only takes a minute.. I appreciate what you are saying, though.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 08, 2013, 11:48:02 AM
It's been a year to the day since I picked up the Beater Lario at the Virginia Nationals. I looked at Melissa's Lario then, and only hoped this one would turn out as well. This is the last installment.. ;D
When I was putting it together, I noticed one strand of the clutch cable was broken, but my usual supplier was back ordered. I finally gave up and got one from Harper's, who had it in stock, of course.  ;D Only problem is that the sheath isn't nearly as heavy duty as the OEM, no doubt to cut costs.. and it was this much too long.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps51b856cd.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001-4_zps51b856cd.jpg.html)
I pondered my options.
(1) Send it back. Non productive. No doubt all of this part number are the same any more, and I'd get another just like it.
(2) Shorten the cable by cutting it off, making a new end and a swaging tool to install it.
(3) Make a spacer.
Number 3 looked like the path of least resistance, so I scrounged around in my good junk box and found a piece of steel about the right size. Chucked it up in my toy lathe, and had at it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004-4_zps64f4f0a4.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/004-4_zps64f4f0a4.jpg.html)
Let's see if we can throw it out of the vise with this slitting saw and home made arbor..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zpsf5e3bf5b.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/005-4_zpsf5e3bf5b.jpg.html)
Even a blind hawg finds an acorn now and then.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsae5f3cf7.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/007-5_zpsae5f3cf7.jpg.html)
Nothing left to do except paint it and slide it in there. Whiled away a couple of hours, I suppose.. didn't keep track, but a pleasant couple of hours if you like doing this kind of stuff. ;)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008-4_zps6d920273.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/008-4_zps6d920273.jpg.html)
Time for the first service. It has 750 miles on it, so I roared around on it the day before to heat it up well, put a piece of aluminum foil on the back of the chin fairing, and drained the oil. Forgot to take a picture.
The next day, after it had cooled off  ~; I dropped the exhaust, removed the chin fairing, drained the front plug, and changed the filter.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zpsbba677de.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/009-2_zpsbba677de.jpg.html)
If I was a *real* Guzzi mechanic in a *real* Guzzi shop, this would be my least favorite job. I just couldn't say to someone that I'd have to charge 2 hours labor to change their oil, and I'd probably eat 1 1/2 hours of it. ;D :BEER: Put a new filter on it, and 2 liters of Motrex 10-60.
So, this is the end. It didn't burn any oil, so Millenium's weird break in instructions worked. It doesn't leak or seep anywhere. The brakes and electrical system work like new. I'd been doing some plug chops and had an occasional miss on one cylinder. Putting a set of NKG LB05F caps on it cured that. I checked valve lash, and 3 intakes were .001" loose. I'd say that's a good thing... I may put new coils on it because I haven't read anything good about the OEM Densos. It probably should have a rev limiter.. it'll run past redline in a heart beat.
Here's the jetting that works on this bike with K&N pods and *really* unrestrictive  pea shooters. Carburates beautifully...
K22 needles with the clip in the middle groove
45 pilot jet
125 main jet
It's as close to a new motorcycle as a guy could have (minus a few cosmetic issues) and I'm having a really good time with it. ;D ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Unkept on June 08, 2013, 04:21:01 PM
Looking great Chuck!

BTW, I rode my first smallblock today. My wife's new Breva 750!  ;D

They are a LOT of fun! I see that I was missing out.

The V11 is a much better highway machine though, IMO. I'd ride either and fully enjoy myself, however.  ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: wrbix on June 08, 2013, 05:48:18 PM
Spacer require an STC?  :+=copcar FAA
 ::)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: balvenie on June 08, 2013, 05:54:00 PM
         Thankyou Chuck. Enjoyed every word ;D ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 08, 2013, 08:32:21 PM
Looking great Chuck!

BTW, I rode my first smallblock today. My wife's new Breva 750!  ;D

They are a LOT of fun! I see that I was missing out.

The V11 is a much better highway machine though, IMO. I'd ride either and fully enjoy myself, however.  ;-T

You guys need to bring it to Guzzi lunch. We could swap and see the differences between them. Want to race?  ~; ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 08, 2013, 08:50:22 PM
Spacer require an STC?  :+=copcar FAA
 ::)

Sometimes, don't ask don't tell works best with the Faa.. ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 08, 2013, 08:52:35 PM
         Thankyou Chuck. Enjoyed every word ;D ;-T

Thanks for following along. "What a long strange trip it's been.."  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on June 09, 2013, 09:24:55 AM
That's good to know about doing to the clutch cable. Mine must be the same as your new one. PO put it on and it's way long. I have my lever maxed out. A wee bit far for my liking. My buddy could whip that up. Thanks for sharing everything we'd all need to know about this great bike. I hope you keep it awhile now!  Sounds like you're enjoying it for certain. I've been running mine a bit since picking it up last week and I just can't get over its fun factor in all regards. Enjoy it now and report back to is from time to time about your experiences.
Thanks again for all this.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on June 09, 2013, 09:29:53 AM
One thing Chuck. Do you remember the smaller diameter measurement section of your clutch spacer?
Thanks
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: canuck750 on June 09, 2013, 09:52:50 AM
Thanks for the great post!

Cheers
JIm
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 09, 2013, 10:52:25 AM
That's good to know about doing to the clutch cable. Mine must be the same as your new one. PO put it on and it's way long. I have my lever maxed out. A wee bit far for my liking. My buddy could whip that up. Thanks for sharing everything we'd all need to know about this great bike. I hope you keep it awhile now!  Sounds like you're enjoying it for certain. I've been running mine a bit since picking it up last week and I just can't get over its fun factor in all regards. Enjoy it now and report back to is from time to time about your experiences.
Thanks again for all this.
Kevin

Mine must have been even longer. It wasn't even threaded in the clutch perch to make it work without the spacer. Why? <shrug> Dunno.
Oh, yeah.. it's a keeper.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 09, 2013, 10:54:53 AM
One thing Chuck. Do you remember the smaller diameter measurement section of your clutch spacer?
Thanks
Kevin

Same dimension as the end of the clutch cable. .310" or so IIRC. It's not rocket science. ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: IceBlue on June 09, 2013, 11:52:05 AM
Yeah thanks Chuck, I'd go bananas taking pictures of almost every move I make - but this was sure a great thread. ;-T 
Now Kevin is up  ;D  More on the Lario Maximus  :+=copcar is now needed to keep the  :pop  mashine running  :BEER:

ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on June 09, 2013, 01:35:00 PM
Same dimension as the end of the clutch cable. .310" or so IIRC. It's not rocket science. ;)
Duh... now why didn't I think of that??
Thanks!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on June 09, 2013, 01:43:20 PM
Yeah thanks Chuck, I'd go bananas taking pictures of almost every move I make - but this was sure a great thread. ;-T 
Now Kevin is up  ;D  More on the Lario Maximus  :+=copcar is now needed to keep the  :pop  mashine running  :BEER:

ciao

Maximus info. will get posted as soon as it comes in. Your patience will be tested!  :P
Really not much left except some trial and error stuff with exhaust. Unfortunately this is all new to Ed and its going to take some time to find the dimension that works for outflow. If not for that...

Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Offcamber1 on June 09, 2013, 02:55:39 PM
I don't want to hijack Chuck's  great thread, but a few Lario related items:

1. I apologize to Scott Gile for not posting a picture of the great seat he made up, virtually from scratch, for my sorry sore a$$.  The bike has been squirrelled away in the garage since I recieved the seat as I have been too busy to break it out for a ride.  I will try and get a picture up sometime this week, but suffice to say I am very pleased with the seat, the little time I've spent on it thus far.  There has been mention here of the piping on the seat and it indeed comes close to matching the paint on the bike.  I would also like to point out that the placement of the piping not only complements the lines of the bike very well, but also is such that it does not put a stretch of it in a spot to grind into your thigh.  Seargent and Corbin (I've owed both) typically are not designed like that.  Great job, Scott!  Thanks so much!

2. Clutch cable length?  Hmmmmm, I thought I was the only one!  I put the one I ordered on a few years back and had it fully adjusted out to the last thread on the hand grip and barely had the ability to disengage the clutch.  I live with it like that for a year until the cable stretched a bit while I was on a ride for my guitar lesson over in Terre Haute; once it warmed up I couldn't get the bike to go into gear at a stop.  So I timed the lights and shifted without a clutch until I got to my lesson.  After terrorizing Popejoy (my teacher) with my lack of guitar prowess, I went to the parking lot to analyze the situation.  I had been smart enough to measure the old and new cables when I installed it several years back and did not mess with the lever on the back of the trans.  After a few minutes of contemplation I went  back in Popejoy's and bought a guitar pick and borrowed a tiny hand crank drill with a very small bit in it.  Drilled a hole in the middle of the pick, and then used some wire cutters to cut a slot from one outside edge to the hole in the center of the pick.  Slipped the pick over the cable, adjusted the adjuster at the hand grip, and headed on my way. It has been like that for over a year, though Chuck's solution is quite a bit more elegant.

3. I finally had time to go for a ride yesterday and had to head back after a few miles as the bike started intermittently running on one cylinder.  I had a few minutes today to look for obvious problems but to no avail so I've got to find some garage time to dig a bit deeper.  Might need to open a new thread on that rather than hijack this one if I don't have any luck.

Ciao,

Kip
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 09, 2013, 06:44:10 PM
Still have the OEM plug caps, Kip? LB05F is your friend.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Offcamber1 on June 09, 2013, 10:07:14 PM
Still have the OEM plug caps, Kip? LB05F is your friend.. ;D

Oh no, I ditched those 3 or 4 years ago when I bought it.  Damned thing has always been a bit slow to fire on the right cylinder, just like my last Lario was.

Anyway, when I replaced the plug caps I put new plugs in but did not replace the relatively new looking plug wires.  I just ordered some 8mm Taylor non resistor wire, some new non-resistor caps like I used to run on my Formula Ford, some heat resitant sheathing, and will get a new set of plugs too.  When I pop the tank off I will look carefully at the connections to the dyna coils just to be sure.  I pulled the front cover today and checked all the connections at the Dyna Ignition but no help.  I'm hoping the plug wire insulation melted somewhere causing a ground on one side.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 10, 2013, 08:59:28 AM
Plenty of slack in your choke cables?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on June 10, 2013, 09:35:47 AM
Funny how one cylinder can behave so differently from the other. On mine, the right has always been exceptional. The left is fine, but for some reason I don't have to choke the right, only the left. Once it's running, the right is ready to rumble. The left needs choke for the first five minutes or so (very normal of course) then is good to go. No issues like stumble though, just peculiar difference I've observed. Plugs look the same. Same needle settings.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: arsprod on June 10, 2013, 12:38:37 PM
You guys need to bring it to Guzzi lunch. We could swap and see the differences between them. Want to race?  ~; ;D :BEER:

I want in on that!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 10, 2013, 04:51:49 PM
I want in on that!

The beater Lario will smoke ya, Aaron.. ~; ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: guzzi4cats on June 11, 2013, 01:44:54 AM
I would just like to say thanks to Chuck for taking the time and trouble to share all that stuff with us, it's very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 11, 2013, 10:26:56 AM
Well, I only *thought* I was done with this project.  ;D I'm pretty sure the only thing I haven't had my hands on are the throttle cables. I have now.. I was out roaring around grinning like an idiot (if the shoe fits, etc ;) ) When the throttle stuck open on one side. The good thing is that it didn't happen next month, when we will be in Maine. Another good thing is that it's not the unobtainiium throttle assembly. A quick call to MG will have a pair of throttle cables on the way. What happened? Dunno. It's frozen up. I'm thinking the Teflon liner did something weird.
At any rate, I get to document this fix. ;D It'll be the blind leading the blind again since I've never done this job, either.  ;D :BEER:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps047a4998.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/002-6_zps047a4998.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on June 11, 2013, 12:41:05 PM
Oh goody... more pics and info!  :pop
Your woes are our shows Chuck.  :P
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 14, 2013, 06:33:37 AM
So, the new cables came in from MG yesterday afternoon, time to get her going.. as you can see from the above picture, one of the cables was frozen,and it would have been a pita to disassemble, so I just dyked it.  ~;
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001-4_zps024c262f.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001-4_zps024c262f.jpg.html)
This should only take a few minutes, right? ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/002-6_zps03eaf7bd.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/002-6_zps03eaf7bd.jpg.html)
To install the new cables, you have to remove the grip and the housing/brake perch from the bar. This is the screw that lets the grip come off. Sorry, I did a really poor job of documenting this, but once the barrel is pulled out of the housing the new cables are fed up from the bottom, and the throttle reassembled. Then, the black piece in my hand a couple of pix back is slid in and the spring clip snapped over it. That keeps the throttle ends from coming loose in the housing.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005-4_zps33217bb8.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/005-4_zps33217bb8.jpg.html)
Then, it's just a simple matter of hooking up the slide... uh oh. The cable isn't nearly long enough. WTF again. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006-4_zps29232295.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/006-4_zps29232295.jpg.html)
Called Gordon, an explained my quandary. "Stock throttle assembly?" Yep. "Stock carbs?" Yep. By this time, I'd taken everything apart again to measure. It looked like the outer sheath was about 1 1/2" too long. Rick came on the phone and said he had a cheat sheet that he'd made up years ago. Then he asked if it had elbows on the carbs. Yep. "That's it. Someone has put them on.. a good idea, but the stock cables won't work. Lemme see if there's another cable that will." After spending about 15 minutes (!) with me, he said that what I had was definitely not a Guzzi cable. I'd either need to get custom cables made up or take the elbow off. That would probably work.
There's a reason that I try to buy from MG. Nice guys, and they know their stuff.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007-5_zpsbc3413a7.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/007-5_zpsbc3413a7.jpg.html)
By this time, I'd been fooling with this all afternoon, and the spring got away from me and sent things flying ::) when I started to assembled the slides for the last time. Generally, this is a sign from above that I need to walk away from it  ;) but I was determined to get it running. Found me a mandrel about the right size..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009-2_zps90ebf5f7.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/009-2_zps90ebf5f7.jpg.html)
And safety wired that sucker..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/011-3_zps198cb633.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/011-3_zps198cb633.jpg.html)
That makes assembly easy peasey. All you have to do is cut the wires, and it's done.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012-2_zpsf8da9e37.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/012-2_zpsf8da9e37.jpg.html)
Well.. its done after you have to completely re route the throttle cables because they interfere with the tank, now.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps79af4aab.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/013_zps79af4aab.jpg.html)
Just need to tune em up. Another trip stopping problem taken care of. I think I *will* order new coils.  ;)

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 14, 2013, 07:29:00 AM
Here's the reason for the elbows on the carbs. I may order some custom cables, sooner or later.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/014_zpsae74fa45.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/014_zpsae74fa45.jpg.html)
Buttoned everything back up, checked for lights since I'd had the fairing off, and no tail light. <sigh> What's up with that? Shirley  ;D both bulbs didn't go out at the same time. Checked for power going to them, and sure enough.."They're dead, Jim."
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016-1_zpse0601f5b.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/016-1_zpse0601f5b.jpg.html)
Some projects never end... ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on June 14, 2013, 07:36:39 AM
That deserves an attaboy Chuck!  Yeah... no elbow here on the carb slide.  I think you're ready to roll now.  Thanks again for the info. 
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Penderic on June 14, 2013, 10:53:47 AM
Nice work you do!

Here is a link to a place where I got a cheap universal throttle cable kit for a rebuild I am working on. I went from a unit that had a splitter and 2 elbows to a single pull but I reused the elbows. Worked first time! http://www.venhill.co.uk/Cables_-_Components_&_Kits/Universal_Cable_Kits
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 26, 2013, 01:26:44 PM
One more little trick to show you. Back in the day, I built a street rod, and an old friend painted it for me. When it was done, he gave me his pin striping brush for filling the inevitable paint chips. Like most painters in the Imron era, he died too young.  :(
This fairing was pretty beat up, and since Beardog was my Ebay troll,  ;) I figured he'd find me another one eventually. Sigh. That's on hold right now, so it's time to fix some of these things until he's back on stream. So, I gave the bike a bath in Dawn to get the wax off of it, and had at it.
Here's a typical chip.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003_zpsc90a2f6a.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003_zpsc90a2f6a.jpg.html)
For whatever reason, some DPO decided he didn't like the blaze of orange on the fairing, so he just removed it. With a hammer and chisel.  ~;
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005_zps168fc046.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/005_zps168fc046.jpg.html)
You can make stuff like this go away, too..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007_zps627e519a.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/007_zps627e519a.jpg.html)
A striper's brush is designed so that as soon as it touches the surface paint starts to flow. If a guy is good at it (I'm not) he can fill the chipped area, and pull the brush out at the right time so you can barely see it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008_zps91604a49.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/008_zps91604a49.jpg.html)
Like so..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010_zps8192bd7c.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/010_zps8192bd7c.jpg.html)
Now, all we have to do is be patient, wait a week, take some (really) fine wet or dry to it, polish it out, and wax. It'll be as good as new. good enough for a rider.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Unkept on June 26, 2013, 01:41:52 PM
Cool tip Chuck. I NEED to get some cosmetic work done on my LeMans, perhaps this will be my next "skill" I need to work on.  ;D Too bad I'm sure it's not good to paint in frigid temperatures... as I only like to take my bike apart in the winter months, and I don't have a heated garage.  :-\

Glad to see you are pretty'ing up the Lario for my next test ride.  ;-T ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: IceBlue on June 27, 2013, 11:46:05 PM
Golly Chuck - this Lario is going to end up looking like it just rolled off the assembly line.

I'd say you have fallen seriously in love with this garl  :BEER:   Not that I blame you. I suffer the same happy love  ;) ;-T  buuuut, she can be demanding like any other garl  ;D :D ;)

Now my rear tire us up for replacement - I got 8000km out of that Metzeler Perfect, not sure I like that tire. Going for a Heidenau 120/90x16
(http://webshop.maxmc.dk/upload_dir/shop/200204.jpg)

Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 28, 2013, 06:30:46 AM
Thanks, Brian.. but it's a long ways from looking new.  ;D So far, I'm pretty happy with it, though. It *has* been and still is a work in progress. I thought it was pretty well sorted, but Unkept was here over the weekend, and I sent him out on it. I heard it drop a cylinder about a half mile away,  :o and he came back saying it isn't very fast on one.  ;D I need to talk to my mechanic.  ;)
We're taking it to Maine/New England to put some serious mileage on it shortly. I'll bet it does fine.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: IceBlue on June 28, 2013, 07:46:36 AM
Looking forward to hear about that trip. The China valves must be broken in soon  ;D

Running on one cylinder is not a Larios finest hour - I have had one drop beats when the engine is very hot.
I replaced a condencer today - I'll be looking at coils next, if it persist. No fun having it miss a few beats doing a corner or curve  :o ;D ;)  Other than that she's a darling.

Looking forward to a ride report on the serious miles  ;-T
My China valves on my Lario still works great, even during hard pushes, and even on a gear shift glitch hitting 9000rpm, but you know that. No nicked valves.

Cheers
Brian
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Unkept on June 28, 2013, 08:00:20 AM
Running on one cylinder is not a Larios finest hour - I have had one drop beats when the engine is very hot.

I'm sure that was it, it was a very hot and humid day...

A 325cc 4 valve engine wasn't quite what I was expecting!  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 28, 2013, 11:33:16 AM
I'm sure that was it, it was a very hot and humid day...

A 325cc 4 valve engine wasn't quite what I was expecting!  ;D

Naa, the dummy that put the carb together  ::) apparently didn't make sure that the cable was properly trapped, and it came loose. Apparently when I cut the safety wire on the spring the end moved. Ignition is ok, but I *do* have a couple of new coils I could zip tie to the frame if necessary.  ;D
Onward through the fog!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Unkept on June 28, 2013, 11:38:17 AM
Naa, the dummy that put the carb together  ::) apparently didn't make sure that the cable was properly trapped, and it came loose. Apparently when I cut the safety wire on the spring the end moved. Ignition is ok, but I *do* have a couple of new coils I could zip tie to the frame if necessary.  ;D
Onward through the fog!

Carbs ... always a problem!

Not like that fancy fuel injection!  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 28, 2013, 02:23:29 PM
Pffffft. Fuel injection is fer sissies.. <snapping suspenders>  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Offcamber1 on June 28, 2013, 08:45:57 PM
Carbs ... always a problem!


Maybe Chuck is on a...low carb diet?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on June 28, 2013, 09:51:06 PM
 :+=copcar
Maybe Chuck is on a...low carb diet?

He's cut his carbs by half.    ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Cal3Me on June 28, 2013, 10:45:32 PM
Chuck,,,, you could have snipped back the throttle cable casing and got your needed slack and still use the metal elbows. I got a chance to see the Lario in person the other day and it looks even better in person.  ;-T :bow


,,,,,Tim
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: IceBlue on June 29, 2013, 01:46:03 AM
Pffffft. Fuel injection is fer sissies.. <snapping suspenders>  ;D

 ;-T :D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 29, 2013, 06:59:55 AM
Chuck,,,, you could have snipped back the throttle cable casing and got your needed slack and still use the metal elbows. I got a chance to see the Lario in person the other day and it looks even better in person.  ;-T :bow


,,,,,Tim

Thanks,Tim.  ;D.. a guy's gotta know his limitations.  ;D :BEER: I'd nick that inner cable sure as the world. The only way I'd feel comfortable doing it would be to cut off one end, cut the cable, and put a new end on it. If "I" am going to do that, I'll just make up new ones.  ;D After our Maine, Vermont,NH trip, I may do that. Or not... ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on June 29, 2013, 11:34:25 AM
Thanks,Tim.  ;D.. a guy's gotta know his limitations.  ;D :BEER: I'd nick that inner cable sure as the world. The only way I'd feel comfortable doing it would be to cut off one end, cut the cable, and put a new end on it. If "I" am going to do that, I'll just make up new ones.  ;D After our Maine, Vermont,NH trip, I may do that. Or not... ;)

This isn't the reason it slipped out.  It turned when you snipped the wire.  No need for an elbow.
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Psychopasta on November 24, 2013, 08:46:24 PM
Just wanted to say thank you for this great thread. I'm working on a Monza rebuild, it has been very useful to me. Thanks!

- Mark
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 25, 2013, 06:14:05 AM
Just wanted to say thank you for this great thread. I'm working on a Monza rebuild, it has been very useful to me. Thanks!

- Mark

Good deal..  ;-T
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 26, 2014, 02:50:14 PM
Well, some projects are never really done, and I suspect the beater Lario is one of them.  ;D My kid gave me a bad time for the ridiculously loud "mufflers" on the Lario. He said it was like following a straight pipe Harley when we went to the Wisconsin rally. I told him that he needed to get ahead, then.. ~;  ;) At any rate, I've been looking for mufflers. I'd *love* to have some Agostinis, but I'm not about to double the price of my motorcycle with a pair. Milich is parting out a Lario, and had some Bubs on Ebay. They were sorry looking things, so I emailed him and asked if they were rusted out on the inside. "Nope." Good enough. Send em. Kevin has been waxing poetic about the sound of Bubs on his super Lario project.
These actually are for a Monza, and had been bodged (surprise surprise) to fit.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001_zps708f938f.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001_zps708f938f.jpg.html)
So let's see if we can save them. Marking where to cut with a silver pencil. I've mentioned all along that having the right tools is 2/3 of the job most of the time. These silver pencils were designed for marking on blueprints.  ::) I'm down to my last two antique pencils, so I googled them to make sure they are still available before I told you about them. Yep. Silver 753. They are great for marking on steel and stuff..
So we'll mark what needs to be cut off.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003_zpsec4c8d8f.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003_zpsec4c8d8f.jpg.html)
Saw off the excess..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004_zps8c8786f1.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/004_zps8c8786f1.jpg.html)
Hit the end on the disc sander to even them up.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005_zps6ef9d29e.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/005_zps6ef9d29e.jpg.html)
That just took a few minutes. Then I rummaged around in my good junk stock and found some 1 1/2" dia. Drill rod to use as an anvil and drove it in there..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/008_zpsf29650e6.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/008_zpsf29650e6.jpg.html)
A couple of minutes with a body hammer..and the ends are good to go.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009_zpsd72a3113.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/009_zpsd72a3113.jpg.html)
Decided to let this slide.. it's where the Distinguished Previous Owner didn't look at what would happen when the suspension compressed.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/010_zpsd070a607.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/010_zpsd070a607.jpg.html)
I'm betting the axle just cold formed this area, so I'm not going to bother welding a patch over it.
Now, it's time for bead blast. I hate bead blasting on a hot sultry day like today, but a guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do. Even my industrial strength compressor will get hot and make water in the air lines on a day like this. Water going into a sand blast cabinet is not a good thing, so a guy needs to stop occasionally and bleed the water traps to keep that from happening.
Here's number 1 after some "shoe shine boy" emery cloth work. If a guy was anal, he could make them look pretty good from here. Just paint, sand, paint, sand all afternoon to fill the rust pits. I'm not.  ;D They'll look ok when finished.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012_zps20f43274.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/012_zps20f43274.jpg.html)
I've torn down my temporary paint booth, ca. 1999.. ;D to have more room in the hanger for working on my last antique airplane. I'm missing that paint booth already. So, I rigged up a *really* temporary place to hang them to paint.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/016_zps15acbcd2.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/016_zps15acbcd2.jpg.html)
I'm low on high temp paint, so it's off to the hardware store. It's *much* better to have too much paint than almost enough. Stopping in the middle of a paint job is a recipe for disaster.. back later. Need any tomatoes?  ;D :BEER:

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: tusong200 on August 26, 2014, 05:00:20 PM
You Dog!!! How did I miss those Bubs!!?? I've bought quite a few items from Ed over the years for my Mario.... Kicking myself.....
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 26, 2014, 05:49:45 PM
You Dog!!! How did I miss those Bubs!!?? I've bought quite a few items from Ed over the years for my Mario.... Kicking myself.....

I have the bay set up to tell me when a new Lario item comes up for sale. It was on there for a nano second or so.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 27, 2014, 07:55:32 AM
Well, we had our seemingly obligatory evening thunderstorm last night, so I drug everything back out and spritzed it this morning. I'ts really humid, so I expect them to not be as glossy as they could be. <shrug> Who cares, when you are putting lipstick on a pig?  ;D Drug them into the shop to finish drying before it rains again..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001_zps8ec50ac0.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001_zps8ec50ac0.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Phil_P on August 27, 2014, 09:22:40 AM
Just spent the best part of a day reading this thread from top to bottom, and enjoyed every line.

I don't have a small block, I have a Sportie, and the only reason I'd get one would be to sort it for SWMBO.

Nevertheless, what a great read for anyone who wants to get a Guzzi on the road.

Very many thanks, Phil.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 27, 2014, 11:11:10 AM
Just spent the best part of a day reading this thread from top to bottom, and enjoyed every line.

I don't have a small block, I have a Sportie, and the only reason I'd get one would be to sort it for SWMBO.

Nevertheless, what a great read for anyone who wants to get a Guzzi on the road.

Very many thanks, Phil.

Thanks for that, Phil. I appreciate it. Just found out that I get to show how to heli coil a spark plug. ;D Oh, boy! Something to fix.. but it'll have to wait. "We" are loading up the plane to go to the National Antique airplane fly in as we type. Stay tuned....
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: ssscruz on August 27, 2014, 11:23:46 AM
Hey Chuck... for a little NGC, can you show us a pic of your plane?

 :PICS!: :PICS!: :PICS!:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: tusong200 on August 27, 2014, 12:54:34 PM
"We" are loading up the plane to go to the National Antique airplane fly in as we type. Stay tuned....

Sounds like fun. AAA? Is the Fly In still in Ottumwa IA? Flew in there many times as a kid (in the 60's) with my late father. As well as the EAA meet when it was still in Rockford IL.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 27, 2014, 01:53:02 PM
Hey Chuck... for a little NGC, can you show us a pic of your plane?

 :PICS!: :PICS!: :PICS!:

Can do. Loaded and ready. Now if the wx will just cooperate..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/003-16.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/003-16.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 27, 2014, 01:56:05 PM
Sounds like fun. AAA? Is the Fly In still in Ottumwa IA? Flew in there many times as a kid (in the 60's) with my late father. As well as the EAA meet when it was still in Rockford IL.

Yeah, AAA. It's at antique airfield, Blakesburg, Ia. I used to go to Rockford, too. Not many of us left.. :o
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: ssscruz on August 27, 2014, 05:15:14 PM
Can do. Loaded and ready. Now if the wx will just cooperate..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/003-16.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/003-16.jpg.html)

Nice, thanks!  Now I can live vicariously as you fly off to your show...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 11, 2014, 09:38:29 AM
Soooo, getting ready to helicoil this spark plug.. lets pull the head off. I realize that it is possible to open the exhaust valve and stick a vacuum cleaner set on blow while doing this to keep chips at a minimum. As easy as it is to pull the head on a small block, let's do that instead.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004_zpsf9ce4def.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/004_zpsf9ce4def.jpg.html)
Pulling the rocker assembly off, I find this. Uh, oh.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005_zps913d579d.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/005_zps913d579d.jpg.html)
The lash caps aren't hard enough. I'd reset the valves a couple of times, and they were always loose. I thought, "well, at least they aren't tight, so the Chinese valves aren't stretching."
One was worn through. :o
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006_zps94f9a502.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/006_zps94f9a502.jpg.html)
These are from RD valve spring, the source that Brian posted back when he was getting the new valves made. I'll give them a call after a bit and have a chat. Maybe I'll need to source some OEM Guzzi lash caps. That'll no doubt be fun. Maybe Mrs. Eish.. she sometimes has obsolete Guzzi parts..cheap.  ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: huub on September 11, 2014, 09:46:01 AM
or have a look at elefant foot adjusters.
i read somewhere the husaberg adjusters have the same thread as the lario rockers .
i havent tried them myself, so i dont know for sure if they fit
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 11, 2014, 10:00:02 AM
or have a look at elefant foot adjusters.
i read somewhere the husaberg adjusters have the same thread as the lario rockers .
i havent tried them myself, so i dont know for sure if they fit

Good idea..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 13, 2014, 10:50:08 AM
I'm not sure about the elephant foot adjusters.. there may not be enough room for them without shimming the rocker pedestal. Called the guy at RD, told him that with a file, I'm guessing these lash caps are around RC 45-50, and I'd think they oughta be RC 58-60. He said, "You're right, I'll go check some and get back to you." Didn't call back, then I realized our phone service was tits up.. they'll fix it in 5 days.  ::) Just to be safe, I ordered a set of Manley lash caps from Jegs
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&Ntk=all&Jnar=0&itemPerPage=60&Ne=1%2B2%2B3%2B13%2B1147708&searchTerm=660-42263-8
for cheap with FREE shipping. (Guzzi content)
While waiting for the new ones to arrive, we might as well go ahead and helicoil this head.
M10 X1 Helicoil kit. As you can see, the inserts I have are too long, but since I have the head off anyway, I'm going to use them.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/001_zpsabbbadb1.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/001_zpsabbbadb1.jpg.html)
 
You're going to need a T handle tap wrench. Cutting fluid for aluminum is kerosene based, so it will work in a pinch if you don't have any. For you UK guys, it's paraffin. For an old Indiana farmer in the 50's it's coal oil, pronounced "core oryl." Don't ask me why we used to call it coal oil, I have no idea. At any rate, the special tap fits the old boogered up threads, and helps to keep the whole works perpendicular.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/002_zps74cca8b1.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/002_zps74cca8b1.jpg.html)
This is about half  :o of the chips that are cut when doing this. Are you sure that you can get them all with the vacuum blowing, grease on the tap, etc. ?? I just wouldn't use that method unless it is totally impractical to pull the head. JMHO. Btw, yes, I know it's running rich. I'll address that eventually.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/004_zpse30fc49b.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/004_zpse30fc49b.jpg.html)
The insert fits on the insertion gizmo, and is screwed in until the last thread is just below the plug sealing surface. If I had used the proper length insert, all that would be left to do is break off the drive tang, and I'd be done. But. I'd have to drive to town, and no doubt coff coff... buy some inserts. Since the head is off, I'll use what I have.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/005_zps28735958.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/005_zps28735958.jpg.html)
We don't want these stainless threads sticking out in the combustion chamber getting hot and causing pre ignition, so.. a high speed grinder and wheel
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/006_zpsdc842b11.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/006_zpsdc842b11.jpg.html)
makes short work of it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/007_zpsb82ef512.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/007_zpsb82ef512.jpg.html)
Cutting each individual coil and carefully picking them out with tweezers and duckbills gets rid of the excess. Chamfered the sharp edge.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/008_zpsf2e97a0e.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/008_zpsf2e97a0e.jpg.html)
and it's ready to go back on after much cleaning and blowing.
Oh. Some new bling. I searched Ebay for Lario, and the first thing that popped up was this.. I thought it might be a sign from above. Or Pete.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/010_zps1ce7be1c.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/010_zps1ce7be1c.jpg.html)
Had to have em.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Mark West on September 13, 2014, 11:13:14 AM
So those are special grenade valve stem caps just for the Lario then. Brilliant

Funny how on ebay you can search on the most rare and unusual make model of car, truck, or motorcycle and find so many accessories for them ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 16, 2014, 04:47:30 PM
Ok, the new Manley Lash caps came in today. Let's get at it, time's wasting. The valve stem where the adjuster had worn through was pretty beat up. I took a fine file  ::) to it to bodge the new lash cap on. The instructions with the new Manley lash caps say that you need a minimum of .020" between the cap and the valve lock. Got it. By the way...if this was an airplane, I wouldn't do this kind of thing. I can walk pretty well, but can't fly at all..  ;D Yes, I tested them with a file, they are harder.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/001_zps8e99a482.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/001_zps8e99a482.jpg.html)
Torqued the heads, and adjusted the valves. I don't remember anyone saying that you should adjust both valves at the same time on a 4 valve, so I'll say that..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003_zpsdc62734e.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003_zpsdc62734e.jpg.html)
Rotate the engine 270 degrees to Dis side, and have a look. Of course, I expected these to be the same, they are. I can't recommend the R&D lash caps..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/004_zpsf8858550.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/004_zpsf8858550.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 17, 2014, 07:23:32 AM
The E ring was on the middle notch. Moving it up one will lean out the mid range a little.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/005_zpsc7242774.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/005_zpsc7242774.jpg.html)
Now, let's fit up these nasty looking mufflers. Right side looks ok, with barely enough clearance.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/007_zpse21d9fd2.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/007_zpse21d9fd2.jpg.html)
The left side needs a spacer a little over 1/4" thick. Sure, I could put washers behind it, but that is sort of shade tree.. found a piece of 3/4" aluminum..that's al u mineum to you UK guys.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/009_zps099c7517.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/009_zps099c7517.jpg.html)
Fired up the toy lathe..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/010_zps66f217f4.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/010_zps66f217f4.jpg.html)
Took this picture with my third hand. When using a parting tool, you need to keep feeding the tool in while dripping cutting fluid on it. Trust me..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/012_zps5d92829c.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/012_zps5d92829c.jpg.html)
That should do it..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/013_zps590f0e48.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/013_zps590f0e48.jpg.html)
How long did that take? Less time than telling about it. ;) Now, I'll have to find a longer metric bolt. That'll probably require a trip to town.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on September 17, 2014, 09:16:59 AM
How do you know it's only rich in the mid-range?  Looks like you added a couple notches to that needle?  I have Lario specific Bubs.  Your's are different. Look a tad bigger diameter.
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 17, 2014, 09:44:31 AM
How do you know it's only rich in the mid-range?  Looks like you added a couple notches to that needle?  I have Lario specific Bubs.  Your's are different. Look a tad bigger diameter.
-Kevin

Well, the mid range is where it spends most of it's life. It is running without issue, but it's obvious that it's running rich. I went from a 130 to 125 main already. Mileage is 45, I'm guessing that it's 10% too rich. The needle and needle jet aren't stock. That's a K22 needle. It has 45 idle jets, probably a little too rich, too. I haven't fooled with jetting too much, thinking that the aero engine will be going in before long. I'll have a look at the lash caps after coming back from the Kentucky rally. If they are getting beat up, too.. I'll consider it a sign that Carlo wants me to put that Aero engine in.. ;D
The Bubs were originally for a Monza.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 19, 2014, 05:25:36 PM
Back together, cleaned up, and ready for the Kentucky rally.  ;D I'm still a fan.
Gratuitous pix.. 
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/003_zps8c6f4d35.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/003_zps8c6f4d35.jpg.html)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/005_zps7174c1e7.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/005_zps7174c1e7.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: FGO on September 19, 2014, 05:41:57 PM
Can do. Loaded and ready. Now if the wx will just cooperate..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/003-16.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/003-16.jpg.html)

Chuck,
Is the plane that used to be a tricycle gear and you modded into a tail dragger?  did you do this on an STC?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: LowRyter on September 19, 2014, 06:48:47 PM
Chuck,

reminds me of when I picked up the Greenie from Brad ("the Kid").  He told me you were going to tour the NW Rockies with that Lario.  He told me that it was the least reliable Guzzi on the road.  All told with a "nod and a wink".  <shrug>

BTW- the Greenie has 30k on it and is till my favorite bike.  (I still haven't been able to find a Cal 14 that I could ever buy & get home- it might never happen). Someday the Greenie aspires (whispers to me) that she plans to be faster than the Mighty Scura.  

How's Brad getting along with his Griso??  

 ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 19, 2014, 07:09:02 PM
Chuck,
Is the plane that used to be a tricycle gear and you modded into a tail dragger?  did you do this on an STC?

Oh, yeah. There's a ton of STCs on the Colt. Lots of speed mods.. gap seals, fairings, etc. Usta be a nose dragger.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 19, 2014, 07:13:26 PM
Chuck,

reminds me of when I picked up the Greenie from Brad ("the Kid").  He told me you were going to tour the NW Rockies with that Lario.  He told me that it was the least reliable Guzzi on the road.  All told with a "nod and a wink".  <shrug>

BTW- the Greenie has 30k on it and is till my favorite bike.  (I still haven't been able to find a Cal 14 that I could ever buy & get home- it might never happen). Someday the Greenie aspires (whispers to me) that she plans to be faster than the Mighty Scura. 

How's Brad getting along with his Griso?? 

 ;D

Loves it, still. Needless to say, he's "molested" it.  ;D Runs, handles bitchin..

Quote
Someday the Greenie aspires (whispers to me) that she plans to be faster than the Mighty Scura. 
As Granny tits used to say, "Wish in one hand, sh!t in the other. See which one fills up first.."  ~; ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: IceBlue on October 19, 2014, 05:26:07 AM
I'm in awe Chuck!

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006_zps94f9a502.jpg)

I have used the Guzzi version, of the caps and seen nothing like this - I do however have RD i my Silver Streak project, and in a 750 4V spare mill for my Targa. I'll let them stay there but keep and eye on them. Did the valve stem survive on the china valve to be reused - enough stem above the spring lock collets? I'll ship another valve to you if not.

Good info, I'll drop the RD caps - at least the first version of the 5,5mm caps with a deep sleeve - a new version came out with a shorter sleeve much like the Guzzi version, hope they are better - who are your other source? email / web site?

Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 19, 2014, 05:52:43 AM
I'm in awe Chuck!

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/006_zps94f9a502.jpg)

I have used the Guzzi version, of the caps and seen nothing like this - I do however have RD i my Silver Streak project, and in a 750 4V spare mill for my Targa. I'll let them stay there but keep and eye on them. Did the valve stem survive on the china valve to be reused - enough stem above the spring lock collets? I'll ship another valve to you if not.

Good info, I'll drop the RD caps - at least the first version of the 5,5mm caps with a deep sleeve - a new version came out with a shorter sleeve much like the Guzzi version, hope they are better - who are your other source? email / web site?


Hiya Brian!
Quote
I ordered a set of Manley lash caps from Jegs
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&Ntk=all&Jnar=0&itemPerPage=60&Ne=1%2B2%2B3%2B13%2B1147708&searchTerm=660-42263-8
for cheap with FREE shipping. (Guzzi content)
The jury is still out. I put it together and the next day rode 200 miles to the Kentucky rally, played Lario in the hills that weekend  ;D and back. Haven't had time to give them a look, yet.
Quote
Did the valve stem survive on the china valve to be reused - enough stem above the spring lock collets? I'll ship another valve to you if not.

Barely.  ;D It's on the previous page, too. Thanks for the offer, though!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: IceBlue on October 28, 2014, 12:59:39 AM
Have you had time to check the new lash caps Chuck?   :)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 28, 2014, 06:56:52 AM
Have you had time to check the new lash caps Chuck?   :)

Not yet. Dorcia is having some medical issues, and we're running to doctors practically every day.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: Unkept on October 28, 2014, 10:00:10 AM
Not yet. Dorcia is having some medical issues, and we're running to doctors practically every day.

Sorry to hear that Chuck. :/ I hope Dorcia gets better soon, you two are some of my favorite kind of people. :)

-Joe
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins Final update with jetting..
Post by: kevdog3019 on October 28, 2014, 12:59:24 PM
Yes, sorry to hear about Dorcia.  She unfortunately is not someone you can fix yourself.  ;)  Best with the issues.
-Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 21, 2014, 10:20:12 AM
Just an update to add to the collective knowledge of Larios. What we've learned:
(1) They are more fun than a guy oughta be allowed to have.  ;D
(2) Locktite is your friend.
(3) The side covers are extremely fragile. In just a few thousand miles three of the mounting studs have broken. They should be beefed up with several layups of fiberglass.
(4) Absolutely put relays on the high and low beams to keep the switch gear from melting down.
(5) If it is pre 87, *do* the rear drive mod.
(6) Even with using a vertical pipe with a bend in it, if you carry a passenger without resetting the preload on the back shock the transmission will spew a fine mist all over the back of the bike. Yuck..what a mess.  ;D  I'm pretty sure that is where the whole problem with fluid loss occurs. I never had another problem after faithfully setting the preload.
(7) The Kenda Challenger rear is a good match for the stickiness of the front Sport Demon, but the Mighty Lario ate it up in short order.  ~;
(7+) Brian's valves and progressive valve springs "may' be the answer.. the jury is still out. Here's what we know.. the original lash caps that Brian posted are too soft. Avoid them like the plague. The Manley lash caps are apparently ok, as long as the valve stems haven't been damaged by the original lash caps. *If* there is room for them, the elephant foot adjusters mentioned in this thread would be a great addition.
As much as I would like to experiment some more with it though, I'll have to hand over the reins to someone else. The Aero engine is going in it.
Gratuitous pix:  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-002_zps1323b61a.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-002_zps1323b61a.jpg.html)
Damage to the Manley lash cap because of the previous lash cap failure..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-004_zps84de7d57.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-004_zps84de7d57.jpg.html)
Previously damaged valve stem.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-005_zps8ab717b2.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-005_zps8ab717b2.jpg.html)
This engine is a hoot to operate.  ;D The carbs and ignition were dialed in as well as I can do it. Plugs look like this after a 600 mile trip.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-001_zpsd28ce7d0.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-001_zpsd28ce7d0.jpg.html)
So, the Beater Lario is off to a (hopefully) short hibernation while fitting up the Aero engine.. stay tuned. ;)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: tiger_one on November 21, 2014, 08:24:29 PM
Finished reading this tonight.  I have a big ole LeBlond, timing light (same one), and bandsaw, also the gas welding rig, and tig.  Learning all this other stuff (lario) is scary stuff.  I just need to get off of this new bike kick I have landed on some how.

Great do it and teach thread.  The internet is excellent for this stuff!  thanks.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: IceBlue on January 02, 2015, 05:30:40 AM
Just an update to add to the collective knowledge of Larios. What we've learned:
(1) They are more fun than a guy oughta be allowed to have.  ;-T ;-T ;-T
(7+) Brian's valves and progressive valve springs "may' be the answer.. the jury is still out. Here's what we know.. the original lash caps that Brian posted are too soft. Avoid them like the plague. The Manley lash caps are apparently ok, as long as the valve stems haven't been damaged by the original lash caps. *If* there is room for them, the elephant foot adjusters mentioned in this thread would be a great addition.


Thanks for the writeup Chuck - my red Lario has the original Guzzi caps and they seem to have some stamina but not good enough, unfortunately I bought quite a few of the RD VALVE SPRING versions  :-[ and have them in two restored 8V mills not yet on the road. I did buy 8 additional caps from RD after my initial batch, and they are of a different design and have shorter sleeves - looks like yours - so I'll stay away from the RD caps all together. Perhaps my initial batch works - yet I'll have to keep an eye peeled on them when starting up these mills. The solution below is very interesting - but room is an issue as you mentioned. The Husqvarna SM 610 part number seem to be 8A00 79058 - but I have no confirmation. So if anyone has access to Husqvarna parts, this could be interesting information.

Ciao

(https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10407837_378882852270127_2449788936462816135_n.jpg?oh=5c70a8b8b1d1ce380d26f199360072b0&oe=553697CA)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 02, 2015, 06:40:34 AM
Thanks for that, Brian..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: kevdog3019 on January 02, 2015, 08:26:17 AM
Why not try Kibblewhite?  You pay for what you get sometimes.
Kevin
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 02, 2015, 08:34:58 AM
Why not try Kibblewhite?  You pay for what you get sometimes.
Kevin

Well, we don't actually *know* that your solution is going to work long term, either. <shrug> Get out there and put 10K miles on it this year..  ;D Report back in 3 years.. ;D :BEER:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: kevdog3019 on January 02, 2015, 10:54:55 AM
I'm just saying Kibblewhite has a pretty good reputation. Ed would probably know that they are quality parts <shrug>. I suspect since they're down the road from him he has used them for years. I would also suspect he uses them in his own racers. I'm pretty confident in his research. Pricey/yes.
 
We're talking lash caps here, not sum of the parts working as a whole on a bike that's been re-engineered. That's a different story and an unknown so far. That I agree with.

I will admit, I didn't have Ed put anything in my bike questioning if it's quality stuff, so my advice comes from his research not my own.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 02, 2015, 03:38:11 PM
Kev, I know Kibblewhite is quality stuff, that's a given. Megacycle is a good cam manufacturer, too, and they gave up on the Lario. I'm just saying that we don't know what it's going to take to be reliable. No one has put big miles on anything.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on January 02, 2015, 03:45:37 PM
Kev, I know Kibblewhite is quality stuff, that's a given. Megacycle is a good cam manufacturer, too, and they gave up on the Lario. I'm just saying that we don't know what it's going to take to be reliable. No one has put big miles on anything.

Yep. Racing use vs. road use. Only time and thousands of miles will tell.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: lucky phil on January 02, 2015, 04:10:21 PM
Thanks for the writeup Chuck - my red Lario has the original Guzzi caps and they seem to have some stamina but not good enough, unfortunately I bought quite a few of the RD VALVE SPRING versions  :-[ and have them in two restored 8V mills not yet on the road. I did buy 8 additional caps from RD after my initial batch, and they are of a different design and have shorter sleeves - looks like yours - so I'll stay away from the RD caps all together. Perhaps my initial batch works - yet I'll have to keep an eye peeled on them when starting up these mills. The solution below is very interesting - but room is an issue as you mentioned. The Husqvarna SM 610 part number seem to be 8A00 79058 - but I have no confirmation. So if anyone has access to Husqvarna parts, this could be interesting information.

Ciao

(https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10407837_378882852270127_2449788936462816135_n.jpg?oh=5c70a8b8b1d1ce380d26f199360072b0&oe=553697CA)
I'm looking for a set of the elephants foot adjusters for the Daytona engine i'm building at the moment. What is the valve gear in the photo? these may work.
The thread in the daytona rocker arms is 7mm X 0.75mm.
Can anyone offer any suggestions?
Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: kevdog3019 on January 02, 2015, 06:24:59 PM
Kev, I know Kibblewhite is quality stuff, that's a given. Megacycle is a good cam manufacturer, too, and they gave up on the Lario. I'm just saying that we don't know what it's going to take to be reliable. No one has put big miles on anything.
Guess I don't understand the the comparison of Megacycle cams to Kibblewhite caps. Why did Megacycle quit making cams for the Lario? 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 02, 2015, 07:27:36 PM
Guess I don't understand the the comparison of Megacycle cams to Kibblewhite caps. Why did Megacycle quit making cams for the Lario? 

They blew up, too. As far as I know, nobody has a definitive answer..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: kevdog3019 on January 02, 2015, 08:35:50 PM
They blew up, too. As far as I know, nobody has a definitive answer..
Oh my!  This little guy has a way of chewing and spitting.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: IceBlue on January 20, 2015, 12:39:54 PM
I'm looking for a set of the elephants foot adjusters for the Daytona engine i'm building at the moment. What is the valve gear in the photo? these may work.
The thread in the daytona rocker arms is 7mm X 0.75mm.
Can anyone offer any suggestions?
Ciao

The Lario is 6mm so they are no good for you...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 20, 2015, 05:58:10 PM
I'm looking for a set of the elephants foot adjusters for the Daytona engine i'm building at the moment. What is the valve gear in the photo? these may work.
The thread in the daytona rocker arms is 7mm X 0.75mm.
Can anyone offer any suggestions?
Ciao

Phil, back in the Pleistocene, I had elephants foot adjusters on a VW aircraft conversion. From memory (more than failure prone any more) they were 8mm. but check. They *might* be 7.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: lucky phil on January 20, 2015, 08:54:48 PM
Thanks Chuck, iceblue. did some digging I think the photo ones are actually KTM 625/640 and I might order one and see if they will fit,trouble is they are about $56 each which is a lot if it doesnt fit. Come to think of it its a lot if they do....8 X $56.
Re the VW ones Chuck, Ive read that the ones to use on the VW engines are Porsche. They dont fail. Wrong size for me though.

Ciao
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on January 21, 2015, 05:59:17 AM
Quote
$56 each
  :o ::)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 06, 2015, 12:04:44 PM
It’s been a while since I’ve added to this thread. I’ve been fitting up some wheel pants on Mouser, and have them to where they will go on.. but.. it’s too cold out in the hanger to be laying on the floor, etc.  ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/13-021_zps86n9xcog.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/13-021_zps86n9xcog.jpg.html)
I’ve recently put the Aero engine in the Lario, and have it running. Guzziology doesn’t have anything good to say about the original ND coils,
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/01-005_zps3pgfkxz4.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/01-005_zps3pgfkxz4.jpg.html)
 so while I can’t work out in the hanger, I thought I’d put  the Dynas on that I had scrounged over the years. This should apply to most of the small blocks, by the way. The most obvious place is where the originals were..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/04-012_zps30oxqvdk.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/04-012_zps30oxqvdk.jpg.html)
But.. I’d have to cut the rear coil mount off the frame.  :-\ I really don’t like molesting antique/classic machines in case someone in the distant future wants to restore it because it’s worth 2.3 million dollars.  ;) Just the same, after agonizing about it for entirely too long, I rummaged through my stash of brackets I’ve made over the years for airplanes..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/02-007_zpsqrr4l46u.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/02-007_zpsqrr4l46u.jpg.html)
and found some likely suspects.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/03-010_zpsqrwwigee.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/03-010_zpsqrwwigee.jpg.html)
Still, I was hesitating to start making sparks, and thought maybe I’d better check the other side to make no sh!t sure that both Dynas would fit there.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/05-013_zpsrqkjiizm.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/05-013_zpsrqkjiizm.jpg.html)
Hmmm, not really. They are too wide, and pinch the breather hoses as they come out of the box. The breather system is mondo important on the small block.. I don’t want to mess with that.  Maybe underneath?
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/06-014_zpsnai7n5s2.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/06-014_zpsnai7n5s2.jpg.html)
Oh, yeah.. it would just take a couple of brackets, and I can use the original mounts.  ;-T
Time to make some prototypes out of soft aluminum.. just takes a minute. Whack out a piece on the shear..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/07-015_zpskdyltln9.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/07-015_zpskdyltln9.jpg.html)
Do a little math and decide the hole spacing. Lay it out, and center punch the locations of the two holes. The punch in the home made shim cutter has a point on it, and will locate on the center punch..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/08-016_zpsmqgiy4jl.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/08-016_zpsmqgiy4jl.jpg.html)
like so..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/09-017_zpsrl7u7qvv.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/09-017_zpsrl7u7qvv.jpg.html)
Bend them in the brake
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/10-018_zpspudy4l7y.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/10-018_zpspudy4l7y.jpg.html)
prototype bracket number 1
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/11-019_zps3aywkf02.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/11-019_zps3aywkf02.jpg.html)
I likes it.. ;D
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/12-020_zpswbu3lpfs.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/12-020_zpswbu3lpfs.jpg.html)
Tweeeeeeet! Lunch whistle, back later.
Aaarrrg! 500 error. Good thing I'd typed these pearls of wisdom in Word..  ;D

 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 06, 2015, 05:06:52 PM
Back from lunch, prototype #2.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-022_zpsuj9jnr3g.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-022_zpsuj9jnr3g.jpg.html)
When I'm out in SoCal, many times I hang out at MGC, and occasionally do some work for Mark. I've seen several Dyna installations.. some of them good.  ;D The favorite method seems to be to Ty wrap them to a frame tube. Not a good idea.The mounting points are heat sinks, and I'm betting some of the problems with Dyna coils is from the way they are mounted. They need to be mounted solidly to something that can carry heat off.
OK.
Time to shoot the engineer and start production. ;D The spec will be HTFIFPTM. That's Hammer to fit in field, paint to match.  ~; These will take longer. Band sawed a strip and cut it into 4 pieces. This is .094" 4130, just like you make airplanes with.. ;)
Milled them to 5/8" wide.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/2-023_zpsp16w7ccb.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/2-023_zpsp16w7ccb.jpg.html)
When I finished milling the last one, I laid it on the bench and there were only three.  ??? I thought, "WTF?" Looked everywhere I'd been. Got on the floor and looked under things. Looked long enough that I could have band sawed and milled out another one. Finally decided that was what I'd do. I'd find the mystery piece some day.  ::) Picked up the short one to use as a template, and there were two.  ::) I'd laid it exactly on top of the other and didn't notice. Old people do stuff like this..  ;D :BEER:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/3-024_zpskh64glu9.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/3-024_zpskh64glu9.jpg.html)
Radiused the corners, because sharp corners are stress risers, and look tacky besides.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/4-025_zpsg2y3wzvv.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/4-025_zpsg2y3wzvv.jpg.html)
Bent them up on the brake. I cheated and didn't drill the last hole in each. I want to get them bolted down in one place so I can accurately locate the last hole.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/5-026_zpsbgnbz5lq.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/5-026_zpsbgnbz5lq.jpg.html)
How long did that take? 2 1/2 hours. Cutting and forming 4130 takes time. Off to see Stan the Hardware man because I don't have any metric hardware, as usual. I'll bolt the brackets to the coils with good ol 'Merican aircraft hardware. Gots lots..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 09, 2015, 06:35:59 PM
Ok, back at it. An automatic wire stripper makes short work of this little wiring job..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-001_zpslnbshana.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-001_zpslnbshana.jpg.html)
Aircraft crimpers in the background makes bullet proof connections every time. No thinking or skill involved.  ;D Assembled with used (FREE) aircraft hardware, including hi temp lock nuts. Looking back through Dyna threads, it seems the consensus is to use a 1-2 ohm resistor with the 3 ohm coils. I went to the auto parts place and asked for a 1-2 ohm ballast resistor. "A whut?? What's it go on?" oh, you've all heard that one. This one measures 2.1 ohms, hopefully it's not rocket science, and it'll be ok...
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/3-003_zpscf9qeypb.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/3-003_zpscf9qeypb.jpg.html)
Finished up (I hope) except for installing the new RED especially for Lucky Phil  ;D  plug wires and new NKG LBO5F boots that haven't arrived yet. The old metal ones that were on the aero engine aren't the best in the rain..
Oh, and final cabling up of the wiring.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/4-004_zpswkzcxrz2.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/4-004_zpswkzcxrz2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: mwrenn on February 09, 2015, 10:57:09 PM
Gettin there!!  I am interested in seeing those spark plug boots when you get them.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 11, 2015, 09:10:41 AM
When the buyer came to look at Rosie, I told him that the Kid had given me that clock and it didn't go with it. As Rosie's titanium music faded into the distance <sigh> I had the clock in my hand. Time to put it on the traveling Lario, so I thought I'd show some fabrication techniques.
Made a rough template out of poster board. Bent it up, transferred the hole location with pencil, nothing fussy.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/01-002_zpstzbjuow3.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/01-002_zpstzbjuow3.jpg.html)
Modified it to get what I wanted and laid it out on some .065" hard aluminum I had laying around. more on that later.
Center punched the mount hole..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/02-003_zpsw79qs6es.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/02-003_zpsw79qs6es.jpg.html)
Transfer punched the radius where the arc and straight section meet up.. that's just an eyeball job, too.. nothing fussy.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/03-004_zps4pixgbqm.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/03-004_zps4pixgbqm.jpg.html)
Remember when I showed you how to grind a sheet metal drill? You'll shortly be very unhappy and bleeding if you don't use one for a job like this. You can (barely) see where the slug where it broke through is still stuck on the drill bit. No grabbing.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/04-005_zps9cpmykpw.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/04-005_zps9cpmykpw.jpg.html)
Band saw it out. The small hole gives a nice radius and won't cause a stress riser.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/06-007_zpsf8hofb54.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/06-007_zpsf8hofb54.jpg.html)
Time for some filing. Aluminum is very bad about sticking in the teeth of files. This is called "pinning". My old (naturally) file card keeps the file clean. Stroke the metal bristles in the same direction as the file teeth, the brush the same way. If you keep your file clean, it'll last for freakin ever. If you don't, it'll be toast in no time.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/07-008_zps8xkrfrtx.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/07-008_zps8xkrfrtx.jpg.html)
Now to bend it. Remember I said this is hard aluminum? If you put it in the brake, it will break.  ;D Trust me. Sooo, how do we anneal this aluminum? There is a fine line between annealing temperature and melting on aluminum, and it doesn't change color to tell you how hot it is. Make it black with acetylene.. no oxygen.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/08-009_zpss6qpguvr.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/08-009_zpss6qpguvr.jpg.html)
Then turn the oxygen on to get a neutral flame and *carefully* burn the acetylene off. Quench it in water. Didn't have time to take a picture, had to run to the faucet, so you'll have to imagine steam rolling off.  ;) You can see how hot the aluminum is from the temperature change on the duckbill pliers.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/09-010_zpsrmdr7uou.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/09-010_zpsrmdr7uou.jpg.html)
Now, we can put it in the brake without it breaking. (sorry)  ;D The bend radius should be 3X the material thickness on aluminum, so set back the brake jaw that much.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/10-011_zpsjlnfk6iu.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/10-011_zpsjlnfk6iu.jpg.html)
Dang! That's a nice radius.. ;D I'll guarantee it would have broken or at least put some cracks that would break later if we hadn't annealed it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/11-012_zpspogyrwsd.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/11-012_zpspogyrwsd.jpg.html)
I'll try not to break my arm patting myself on the back. ;D
Time to paint it.
Wipe it down with grease and wax remover (rubber gloves, please) and spray a tack coat with the trim black. Both are available at your friendly automotive paint store, and the trim black is perfect for non glare without being dull flat black.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/12-014_zpsloriwlba.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/12-014_zpsloriwlba.jpg.html)
The guy that taught me to paint told me to always spray the edges first. If you don't, you'll have shiny edges, and maybe even miss one. So I'll tell you to do that too. The tack coat keeps the final coat from crawling. After it "tacks off" (it turns from shiny to flat) spray the final coat, hang it up to dry, and walk away. The clock has a sticky back, so I masked off the mounting area to keep paint off of it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/13-015_zpsgkjn5ulx.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/13-015_zpsgkjn5ulx.jpg.html)
How long did that take? Considerably less than telling about it.  ;D I'll be back later to show the finished product.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 11, 2015, 12:06:02 PM
View from the cockpit..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-016_zpsh9obsuev.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-016_zpsh9obsuev.jpg.html)

Ok, now..
bags. check
clock. check
throttle lock. check
That should do it, and we're ready to Drone   ~; across northern Indiana and Illi noise to the rally. Sorry, that was low hanging fruit.. ;D
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: kevdog3019 on May 11, 2015, 12:23:18 PM
Nice Chuck!  Looks about the same size as that voltage indicator (that's not too handy IMO)? Hmmm...
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 11, 2015, 12:25:35 PM
Thanks, but I *like* that voltage indicator. Works just fine..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: kevdog3019 on May 11, 2015, 12:38:36 PM
You probably know this, but if there's ANYTHING wrong with the charging system your dash light will glow.  I've got experience with that. ;)  It's the one idiot light I trust over that crusty meter. It looks cool going up and down with the revs though.  8)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 07, 2015, 04:26:34 PM
You probably know this, but if there's ANYTHING wrong with the charging system your dash light will glow.  I've got experience with that. ;)  It's the one idiot light I trust over that crusty meter. It looks cool going up and down with the revs though.  8)

*Really* late reply to this, but.. by the time the light comes on you already have a problem.  :smiley: Watching a voltmeter just might let you make a preemptive strike on the electrical system.. I like voltmeters.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 07, 2015, 04:38:03 PM
I mentioned in the Aero engine rescue thread that the Kid told me after a test ride that the front end was under damped. Told him, "Yeah, I know.. I've had FACs back ordered for like forever."
When I returned from the Ohio rally, they were sitting on the doorstep. Also had a note from MG.. since the exchange rate has changed since I ordered them, they cost $50 less..  :thumb: Gotta give Rick and Gordon some props.. some people would happily have pocketed the difference..
At any rate, let's get to it. I would think all small blocks would be similar.
Tweeeeeet! Gotta quit for now and fix dinner..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: guzzisteve on September 07, 2015, 05:37:10 PM
Whew,  for a minute I thought you sent another red SB  into rehab.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: kevdog3019 on September 07, 2015, 05:43:17 PM
I mentioned in the Aero engine rescue thread that the Kid told me after a test ride that the front end was under damped. Told him, "Yeah, I know.. I've had FACs back ordered for like forever."
When I returned from the Ohio rally, they were sitting on the doorstep. Also had a note from MG.. since the exchange rate has changed since I ordered them, they cost $50 less..  :thumb: Gotta give Rick and Gordon some props.. some people would happily have pocketed the difference..
At any rate, let's get to it. I would think all small blocks would be similar.
Tweeeeeet! Gotta quit for now and fix dinner..
Under dampened yes. The bigger problem is the fit (or play/weakness) between the inner and outer legs. You may get some relief in dampening but the wallow will always be there. I simply can't imagine cheaper/flimsier forks than stockers on these old sb's. I KNOW, I've said it several times yada yada yada, but you'd be SHOCKED how solid these small Tontis CAN feel. Bang for the buck, the best upgrade in performance. My 2 pennies on upgrading these forks.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 07, 2015, 06:03:15 PM
Ok, this shouldn't take long. Dinner's in the oven..
Since we're moving the gauge panel which includes the ignition switch.. remove the negative lead off the battery. No need making sparks unless you are on a cafe racer show..as Grandma used to say, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.."
Get the panel out of the way. How to do that has already been addressed on this thread, no need to rehash that.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-011_zpsaokpwwe8.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-011_zpsaokpwwe8.jpg.html)
Loosen the top triple clamps..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-013_zpstldoeznp.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-013_zpstldoeznp.jpg.html)
Pull the front brakes, loosen the axle nut, then the pinch bolts. Drive the axle out with your brass drift, noting which side of the speedo drive the different sized spacers go.
Rattle gun out the bottom nut that holds the bottom piece on the old screen door closer.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-015_zpsw0gybcpi.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-015_zpsw0gybcpi.jpg.html)
Check that the seal is still ok.
Use your 32mm wrench (cleverly disguised as a 1 1/4" wrench if you are a 'Merican.. to loosen the damper. When you do this, the 100cc of auto transmission fluid in the forks will drain out the bottom.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-014_zpsvhd84jsl.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-014_zpsvhd84jsl.jpg.html)
Here's the assembly compared to the FAC. 
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-016_zpstkvx9qgu.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-016_zpstkvx9qgu.jpg.html)
All we have to do is take it apart. The spring isn't terribly powerful, and you can just cave man it down, put a wrench on the nut, hold that, and remove the aluminum end with vise grips. Probably be a good idea to use some leather to keep from boogering it up.  :smiley:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-018_zpsdoc1jjmz.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-018_zpsdoc1jjmz.jpg.html)
Here it is disassembled.. the black piece is nothing more than a plastic bushing to keep the spring centered.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-019_zpsol8aaexx.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-019_zpsol8aaexx.jpg.html)
I exercised the old damper, and sure enough.. it's toast. The FACs will be money well spent.
We'll put it together tomorrow with any luck at all.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 07, 2015, 06:46:23 PM
Under dampened yes. The bigger problem is the fit (or play/weakness) between the inner and outer legs. You may get some relief in dampening but the wallow will always be there. I simply can't imagine cheaper/flimsier forks than stockers on these old sb's. I KNOW, I've said it several times yada yada yada, but you'd be SHOCKED how solid these small Tontis CAN feel. Bang for the buck, the best upgrade in performance. My 2 pennies on upgrading these forks.

Kev, you don't seem to get it.  I'm trying to show the typical small block owner how to change out the dampers.. that's all. I'm not building a race bike here. If I was I'd put some modern USD forks like Gixxers on it. I've addressed some of the weakness of the stock forks by the delrin bushings on the fender mount/fork brace, and new dampers will help also. I *wouldn't* be shocked. I know what a Tonti frame can do.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: SteveAZ on September 07, 2015, 08:53:04 PM
So, I'm going to be "that guy" here.

Dampening is the act of making somthing damp (moist), or decreasing someone's enthisiasm.

Damping is removing energy from from an oscillating system via mechanical means (now we're talking suspension)

I have no argument with anything in this thread and am following it with great enthusiasm and learning a boatload of new things. It's just that my aerospace engineer ears start bleeding a little when I hear this terminology mixed up which it is more often than not, including in the aftermarket suspension industry where it's rampant and folks have been doing suspension longer than I've been breathing air have been saying it wrong all along. Still, it's damping.

OK, back to my popcorn and learning.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: kevdog3019 on September 07, 2015, 09:54:35 PM
Kev, you don't seem to get it.  I'm trying to show the typical small block owner how to change out the dampers.. that's all. I'm not building a race bike here. If I was I'd put some modern USD forks like Gixxers on it. I've addressed some of the weakness of the stock forks by the delrin bushings on the fender mount/fork brace, and new dampers will help also. I *wouldn't* be shocked. I know what a Tonti frame can do.

Chuck,
     I understand full well what you're doing. There are two ways to skin a cat; both educational.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: ITSec on September 07, 2015, 11:42:42 PM
Chuck,
     I understand full well what you're doing. There are two ways to skin a cat; both educational.

I think my cats would prefer to remain blissfully ignorant...  :grin:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 08, 2015, 05:03:41 PM
Alrighty now.. let's finish this up. I drilled a half inch hole in some soft plastic so I wouldn't booger up the air valve during assembly..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-001_zpshgv59rn0.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-001_zpshgv59rn0.jpg.html)
Just a matter of pulling the spring down and screwing the aluminum gizmo (technical term) on the end and tightening the lock nut. The slot on the gizmo is what slides over the fork leg drain screw as an anti rotation device when you are tightening or loosening the screw that holds the bottom fork leg on.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/2-002_zpsaofwjzog.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/2-002_zpsaofwjzog.jpg.html)
Drop the assembly in the fork leg with the notch in the back. Wiggle it around a little to make sure it's keyed, and run the bottom screw home.
Oh. Do them one leg at a time to keep the lower fork lets from falling on the ground..  :smiley:
Now all you have to do is fill them. If you put a little pressure on the bottom of the leg
everything moves up
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/3-003_zpsi3h8kkub.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/3-003_zpsi3h8kkub.jpg.html)

 and you have room to put 100cc of ATF in each leg.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/4-006_zps4kcyvzhb.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/4-006_zps4kcyvzhb.jpg.html)
Screw the caps down, and you're done. Total time? About a couple of hours.. an easy job.
View from the cockpit..
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/6-009_zpswu8w7zoq.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/6-009_zpswu8w7zoq.jpg.html)
While I'm right here, I thought I'd see how the Gaudy Gaiters (tm) had done their job after several thousand miles.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/5-007_zpse7d1szbw.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/5-007_zpse7d1szbw.jpg.html)
No need to even add some more grease.  :thumb:
The Milich Special Rusty Bubs had started to revert to their natural state, so I pulled them off and gave them another couple of coats of paint.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/7-010_zpsogpfpyzv.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/7-010_zpsogpfpyzv.jpg.html)
Ready for the Kentucky rally.. :smiley:
As an aside, I wondered about how much air to put in the new FACs. I thought I remembered zero. Using our new and improved search engine, that's what came up. What I did learn, though, is there is a bladder in the FACs (assuming they are the same as the LeMans units) and the more air pressure you add, the more damping you get. We'll see after road test/break in..
Don't know why Photobucket decided to turn these pix around. Some things aren't meant to be understood.. <scratching head>
At any rate, there's no need to fret about changing dampers in the small block. Small blocks are easy :smiley:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 09, 2015, 08:41:53 AM
Ok, one last thing before leaving this damper install..
When searching here, I read conflicting information. Surprise surprise.  :smiley: Some said that if you add air it pressurizes the fork leg and blows fork seals.
I though, Hmmmm, what's up with that? Shirley  :smiley: it wouldn't be designed that way.. so I took the old one apart before dumpstering it.
Well, well. You can see how it works. Oil is forced through the two orifices, and air pressure in the bladder impedes the flow making damping stronger. More air, more damping.
If putting air in the dampers causes a fork seal to fail, it's because the bladder in the damper has already failed. This one had. So... it makes sense to me to at least put *some* air pressure in the bladder so it will possibly (just a gut feeling, no science involved) hold it's shape, and flex less.
At any rate, I'm going to do that.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/Lario/1-001_zpsd96hjuwd.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/Lario/1-001_zpsd96hjuwd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on September 09, 2015, 09:38:21 AM
I posted a photo much the same a while back to clarify just how the original dampers worked, yet misinformation persists. But, I thought I had read that FACs were different - the air pressure fills the fork? Has anyone had one apart and can provide the truth? 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 09, 2015, 09:45:25 AM
I can't imagine an engineer designing something that depends on a fork seal to hold 50 psi.. but no, I didn't take the opportunity to screw up my new dampers..  :smiley:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Xlratr on September 09, 2015, 09:54:34 AM
I can't imagine an engineer designing something that depends on a fork seal to hold 50 psi.. but no, I didn't take the opportunity to screw up my new dampers..  :smiley:

I put the FACs in my T3 and also neglected to take them apart! :-).
I'm 99% sure they have the bladders, but I didn't put any air in as the damping seems fine without.
John
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 09, 2015, 10:04:34 AM
Ok, I couldn't stand it. :grin: I hooked up a high pressure bicycle pump. This pump is hand operated, and has roughly a 3/8" diameter piston and about a 6" stroke. The point I'm making is there is no way there is enough volume per stroke to fill a fork leg. One stroke put the FAC at 45 lbs. (!)
There *has* to be a bladder. <shrug>
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Groover on September 09, 2015, 10:42:43 AM
This looks like a great thread. Gonna have to start from the beginning when I have a little more time. So far I've just jumped around a couple of pages, and a few things jumped out at me: A nice work shop, good skills, proper tools for the job, an airplane, nice ripe tomatoes in 2014, and of course, a Guzzi project... This is like catching reruns of a past TV series that you completely missed - I'm hooked! :azn:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 09, 2015, 11:02:03 AM
This looks like a great thread. Gonna have to start from the beginning when I have a little more time. So far I've just jumped around a couple of pages, and a few things jumped out at me: A nice work shop, good skills, proper tools for the job, an airplane, nice ripe tomatoes in 2014, and of course, a Guzzi project... This is like catching reruns of a past TV series that you completely missed - I'm hooked! :azn:

Glad to help you waste some time..  :smiley: I started it because there's a scarcity of information on the small block in general. Hopefully a search can come up with a few pictures and how to do its. We've touched on about all of the small block now, except taking a transmission apart.
The Aero engine rescue thread contains more, if you're bored..  :wink:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Groover on September 09, 2015, 11:17:24 AM
I might have to pass on the Aero thread, as intriguing as that sounds...   :clock:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 09, 2015, 11:27:19 AM
I might have to pass on the Aero thread, as intriguing as that sounds...   :clock:

 :smiley: :smiley: It, like this one, is a collaborative effort by very knowledgeable Guzzi Guys such as Charlie, Pete, Dogwalker, oh, I could name *many*.. keeping me out of trouble.  :cool: Hopefully it will be a resource. Just today we disproved a myth on dampers..  :thumb:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: O on September 09, 2015, 09:46:19 PM
I might have to pass on the Aero thread, as intriguing as that sounds...   :clock:

Don't do it!  I have zero skills with a wrench, nor any interest in acquiring those skills, but the saga of the aero engine being found, and Chuck running with it to install it into the Lario is absolutely fascinating.  Definitely worth your time. 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: John Ulrich on September 10, 2015, 08:12:53 AM
Here's a photo "Bones" took at the factory recently.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/juturtle/Prop_zpsb3wuw2v4.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/juturtle/media/Prop_zpsb3wuw2v4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Groover on September 10, 2015, 09:43:17 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 10, 2015, 02:09:12 PM
Here's a photo "Bones" took at the factory recently.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/juturtle/Prop_zpsb3wuw2v4.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/juturtle/media/Prop_zpsb3wuw2v4.jpg.html)

Strange. That's a pusher engine all right, but sure looks like it has a tractor propeller on it.. <scratching head>
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: John Ulrich on September 10, 2015, 02:35:42 PM
Maybe a ceiling fan with a light in the cone.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/juturtle/Prop_zpskxyclayw.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/juturtle/media/Prop_zpskxyclayw.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 12, 2015, 09:01:06 AM
Just an update.. I haven't had a chance to get the Lario out since the damper swap..the kid was right. I could tell a significant difference in front end feel before reaching the main road. Money well spent on those FACs.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Unkept on September 12, 2015, 02:50:46 PM
Just an update.. I haven't had a chance to get the Lario out since the damper swap..the kid was right. I could tell a significant difference in front end feel before reaching the main road. Money well spent on those FACs.  :thumb:
  :bike-037:

Nice work Chuck!

Packing for Germany trip tomorrow... thought I'd read some WG to unwind from the anxiety. It worked!

Hopefully I can update my saga of a thread by the Winter too. ;)

-Joe
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 12, 2015, 04:15:48 PM
  :bike-037:

Nice work Chuck!

Packing for Germany trip tomorrow... thought I'd read some WG to unwind from the anxiety. It worked!

Hopefully I can update my saga of a thread by the Winter too. ;)

-Joe

Good to hear from you Joe.. have a *great* trip.  :thumb:  How long are you staying?
Hug the Hobbit for us..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Unkept on September 12, 2015, 04:30:35 PM
Good to hear from you Joe.. have a *great* trip.  :thumb:  How long are you staying?
Hug the Hobbit for us..

Two weeks!

Will do .
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Green1 on September 13, 2015, 07:36:36 PM
Found this thread today,long read from page 1 but worth it,still fairly new to the Guzzi family and still learning
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 04, 2016, 06:59:05 PM
Time for an update. When we did this thread, I went through all the trouble of rehabbing (I thought) the original rotors. The fronts had a couple of places each where the pads had stuck to them while sitting in the Florida swamp atmosphere. I bead blasted the crap out of them and thought, "they'll only get better." Nope. They got worse. Apparently, every time the rotor revolved with the brakes on, it deposited a little pad material to the point of seriously pulsing. You can see one place at the bottom of the rotor. Hmmmm, rusty fasteners...
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7312/26820375465_502b9b66d4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GS2rdD)2016-05-04_05-17-33 (https://flic.kr/p/GS2rdD) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
The plan was to take them off last winter, set them up on the CNC and take a light cut on both sides to clean them up. They were already pretty seriously worn, though.
As I've mentioned, patience is it's own reward. I scored this pair of rotors off the bay, cheap. (Guzzi content)  :smiley: Put the mics on them, and one was worn .002", the other .007".  :thumb: Probably off a low mileage (ahem) blown up Lario.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7453/26547962640_93e3959912_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GrXfnN)2016-05-04_05-17-12 (https://flic.kr/p/GrXfnN) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
Bead blasted them and masked for paint. Tools of the trade. This kind of work has already been covered in this thread.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/26786174396_6918fdee22_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GP19r3)2016-05-04_05-17-47 (https://flic.kr/p/GP19r3) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
 I really miss my temporary paint booth that I tore down last summer to get more room in the hanger. Maybe tomorrow or Friday, I can paint them outside.
As an aside, I looked at the normal suspects, and those rusty button head screws run around 1-2 dollars each.  :shocked: Went to MacMaster Carr, and bought a bag of 25 for 7 dollars and change. Cad plated, so they won't rust. Grade 10 point something or other, so plenty strong enough. (Guzzi content, again.) With any luck at all, she'll have smoothly functioning brakes in a few days.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: twowings on May 04, 2016, 07:04:31 PM
Every one of your posts seems to contain gems of mechanical wisdom...looking forward to seeing this beauty ready to carve some corners! 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: SED on May 04, 2016, 11:36:28 PM
Every one of your posts seems to have contain gems of mechanical wisdom...looking forward to seeing this beauty ready to carve some corners!
Agreed!  Thanks.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 05, 2016, 06:00:38 AM
Well, most pulsing brakes aren't warped rotors. These aren't. Runout is still .002".. it's just uneven deposition of pad material. Clean it off, and after a few hundred miles it's coming back. Hopefully the new old rotors will be ok.
Thanks.. :smiley:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: huub on May 05, 2016, 07:27:34 AM
you might have a look at the 270 mm floating disks from the le mans 1000/sp3/california 3
those are a straight swap , and dont pulse, like the original lario disks tend to do

the 270 floater was used as a rear disk on the california , they go pretty cheap on ebay

even nicer , but a tad more expensive, HMB had them made from stainless steel.
http://hmb-guzzi.de/Brake-Disc-front/rear-270-mm-LM-1000-Cali-3-SP-3-etc-stainless
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 05, 2016, 07:59:57 AM
you might have a look at the 270 mm floating disks from the le mans 1000/sp3/california 3
those are a straight swap , and dont pulse, like the original lario disks tend to do

the 270 floater was used as a rear disk on the california , they go pretty cheap on ebay

even nicer , but a tad more expensive, HMB had them made from stainless steel.
http://hmb-guzzi.de/Brake-Disc-front/rear-270-mm-LM-1000-Cali-3-SP-3-etc-stainless

Thanks for that.  :thumb: If these don't work out, that's the way I'll go.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 05, 2016, 09:05:13 AM
Just wondering if there is a direct Ducati replacement? Posers gotta have the latest thing, dontcha know?  :evil: :smiley: Lots of perfectly good duck parts on the bay, cheap.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 05, 2016, 05:11:03 PM
Still too cold to paint. Sharpened up my impact driver tool because I could.  :azn: Having the right tool, etc.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7366/26836031005_9c3a9d2d9b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GTpF4K)2016-05-05_01-55-03 (https://flic.kr/p/GTpF4K) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
One day service, as usual from McMaster Carr.. now these are some *nice* rotor bolts for pennies.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7433/26234180564_0392685ae8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FYe2U1)2016-05-05_05-45-57 (https://flic.kr/p/FYe2U1) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
It's forecast to be warm enough to paint tomorrow. If the wind isn't still blowing 30.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 09, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
Cleaned up the wheel since I had the rotors off. Pretty spiffy.  :smiley:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7574/26919946455_a1d6d8ca6c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/H1PLcR)2016-05-09_04-50-50 (https://flic.kr/p/H1PLcR) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: twowings on May 09, 2016, 04:06:54 PM
Ooooh..shiny!  :drool:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: bmc5733946 on May 09, 2016, 04:22:13 PM
Now you've done it!  The rear wheel will now have to be cleaned to match the front or the bike will want to swap ends.  I know it's true Cause I read it on the inner neck!!

Brian
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 09, 2016, 06:51:12 PM
Now you've done it!  The rear wheel will now have to be cleaned to match the front or the bike will want to swap ends.  I know it's true Cause I read it on the inner neck!!

Brian

Oh, it's true all right. Now that rear wheel looks nasty. The stupid thing has 10K miles since I cleaned it up.. I knew it was a slippery slope when I cleaned the front.  :smiley: I'm needing a third rear tire, maybe I'll clean it up then.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Dogwalker on May 10, 2016, 02:41:07 AM
Thanks for that.  :thumb: If these don't work out, that's the way I'll go.

They had been used on the Nevada too, for all the '90s. A big step up in braking efficiency over the fixed disks of the '80s.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_KjSEKi8q7eI/Sf3X0PDumsI/AAAAAAAAAWo/DARomtx1cz0/s640/06042009(002).jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 10, 2016, 10:56:26 AM
Thanks for that, too.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 18, 2016, 03:48:15 PM
Well well, looky what the mail girl brought me today.  :smiley:
So easy to install you don't really need instructions, but I will anyway.
Lift up the Gaudy gaiters (tm) and the dust covers and loosely install both sides. Some light tapping with a little rubber hammer will help to get them aligned.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8394/28451942854_d175912bd1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KmcDmS)2016-08-18_03-16-29 (https://flic.kr/p/KmcDmS) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
Put the cap on, install the top screws, wiggling the assembly a bit to get all to line up.
Tighten all the screws in a cross pattern, slide the dust covers and gaiters down, and you're done. Easy.
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8317/28454137503_6c9cf77690_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KmoTKD)2016-08-18_03-16-47 (https://flic.kr/p/KmoTKD) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
Looks the business.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8102/28785538660_7a40edf9c2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KRFpLG)2016-08-18_03-17-01 (https://flic.kr/p/KRFpLG) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
Was it worth the hunnerd bux? You betcha. I could feel the difference just rolling out the driveway. Any time you can make a noticeable difference for a pittance like that, you are doing good.  :smiley: :boozing:
I'd been planning to do this for a while after riding the Monza with the Tarozzi fork brace compared to the same forks on the MKIII I had. They were pretty wimpy forks and you could tell which brake you were using.  :shocked: The Lario forks were nothing like that, but now they are for want of a better word, more solid feeling. Planted. If you have a Lario, I'd highly recommend it.
I got it from fast from the past. On their chart, this brace is supposed to fit the 750 S3. Now we know which parts bin the Lario forks came from.. :grin: P/N 280022. The usual disclaimers. Didn't hose me on shipping, either.  :smiley: :thumb:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 22, 2017, 02:14:50 PM
Latest update..
The flip choke has been usable, but it's a case of too much or too little. I thought it would be nice to have a variable choke, controllable from the left grip.
Found a Magura choke lever, but it was set up to mount on a handlebar. There's no place for that on the Lario, so after a little mill and lathe work, made a mount that goes in the unused M10 mirror mount.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4234/35303589802_a363120f7b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VME8hN)2017-06-22_02-44-39 (https://flic.kr/p/VME8hN) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
All I have to do now, is go to a bicycle shop, get some stuff, and run to a splitter. Then, I can have as much or little choke as I need.
I love it when a plan comes together.. :smiley:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: twowings on June 22, 2017, 03:19:49 PM
Chuck, I think the prop would be good for an additional 10-15 mph top speed...just add googles!  :cool:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 22, 2017, 03:37:02 PM
forgot to update this thread with the fix for the stupid front brake light switch which has been a reoccurring issue. Chucked it up in the lathe and cut the crimp off so I could take it apart.
Here's the problem with them: There are two brass tabs that are bent to touch the plunger. If one isn't bent enough.. no brake light.
I'm pointing to the offending member.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4233/35385693076_f79c822de0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VUUVJu)2017-06-20_08-53-48 (https://flic.kr/p/VUUVJu) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
While I had it held in the lathe, I put a blunt tool in and made them both the same.
There is a brass ring cast into the insulator where the crimp holds it together. I just soft soldered the case to that. We'll see how long that holds up. I'm guessing longer than that $55.87 plus shipping switch.  :evil:  :smiley: Cost? nothing. (Guzzi content)
edit for typo
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Psychopasta on June 22, 2017, 04:56:57 PM
Hey Chuck,

Something I see a lot around this forum is 'Cost? Nothing (Guzzi content)'. What does (Guzzi content) mean in this context?

Your puzzled pal Pasta
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 22, 2017, 06:16:42 PM
Uhhh, Guzzisti are known the world round for being.. uhhh. frugal. <snapping suspenders>  :smiley:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Psychopasta on June 22, 2017, 08:17:25 PM
Ahhh... :bow:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 04, 2018, 12:36:00 PM
Last fall, I noticed the voltage regulator (probably) acting up. The voltmeter was jumping around, and I put that on my to be fixed list over the winter. Cleaned up the electrical connections at the diode board and regulator and took it for a putt.
Didn't help. Ordered a new regulator from Gordon and Cheesehead, and since I needed something else to fail  :evil: got the adjustable one. Still less than 20 bucks. Bolts right up.
Installed it,


(https://thumb.ibb.co/drJDm7/z9_FMzoqh_U_D_S9ewi_Wd_REGJ8m3xf5lea_F4gct_D3_Sa_NSa0_GUl7a_V1_CTg_MJ1_Y42_XGt_Qb_Aac_Ras_PSGz_Gt_K0oe7_Dk_Egczp8_MFVw4n_G67t_Yb_QINSh_Qn8rr_EVg_KWNv_Jqu6y_Lpl_Ry3_Fa_Svn0em53k2ynvon1_t_F8_LVPOx_D2oytp792_0pm1e_Z3_CKKvsas_F3_Osmtx_Gncc2q54im_Eoxp26iz_H4_Y8j_OVc5950f7n_Pgrt5_Mmia_Nr_Efyha_Fr8_BBNCt_MOPsa_O.jpg) (https://ibb.co/drJDm7)


and the volt meter likes it.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Unkept on May 04, 2018, 03:36:07 PM
 :thumb:

Long live the Aero Lario!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 06, 2018, 05:50:43 AM
I don't see any reason it shouldn't.. :smiley:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: IceBlue on June 03, 2018, 11:14:11 AM
Any one up for making a V85 Lario Mark III with the new V85 - 80 hp mill/tranny when out?
OK - there may be a new sports commuter on the drawing bord at
Guzzi. Seems like this mill is the center of a whole new range of SB's  :thumb:

The Aero mill wouls still create magic in a line of SB's too.

I envy you Chuck in the good  way. I could not get one, and I'm happy you of all did.

Total hot summer here i Dk, and it has been so now for almost a month. Perfect riding conditions :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 19, 2018, 07:58:25 AM
Thanks for all you help. The Aero engine is coming up on 12000 miles, now. Just push the button and go.  :grin: Changed out the tires for MT75s. That was a good move. It's the first time I've been happy with the way it handles. I'd been running a Sport Demon on the front, and whatever rear I could find.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 05, 2018, 03:40:52 PM
Rode to the Ohio rally this weekend, and boiled the brake fluid on the "Triple Nickle." It's a tricky road with many blind curves following a steep hill.  :grin: Roadkyll said he had a syringe.. why don't we change out the fluid? Did that with a struggle. Got it pretty well bled, really after a deaf guy let up on the pedal at the wrong time.  :cool:
At any rate, hanging this vise from the lever for 24 hours made the pedal rock hard.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1846/44449160692_932efba66d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2aHPyTw)2018-09-05_04-32-21 (https://flic.kr/p/2aHPyTw) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr

On the way home, the speedo drive blew up. I thought, "No problem.. the usual suspects will have one." Not. The Lario drive is unique because it uses a 19mm front axle instead of 17. No repops. Unkept found me the last NOS one in existence from TLM. :thumb:
18000 miles now..
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Unkept on September 10, 2018, 02:13:57 PM
That is still such a great looking valve cover.

If I get a V85, I'll need a custom pair of valve covers that look like the Aero.  :grin:

Glad to be of some help!

-Joe
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Pescatore on June 08, 2019, 11:50:39 AM
Hello Chuck,
First off, thanks for pointing me to your post and this forum.  When I grow up, I want to be able to do the kind work you show on this rebuild.
I have read this whole story and I hope you can elaborate on some things you did.

1) Some pictures are missing.  They don't load or they cannot be found.  I installed the Photobucket add on, but no luck.  Bummer.

2) Alignment:  It seems that the engine and gearbox align the whole bike.  You mentioned to keep the final drive bolts lose until the rear axle is torqued down.  So, I guess the swing arm is aligned
to the gearbox, then the swing arm aligns the rear wheel.  Do you expect those last 4 bolts on the D side to find home for the final drive?  Isn't that already bolted to the rear wheel?
Finally, the engine block aligns the top frame, which aligns the front fork and front tire.  Is alignment something to worry about?  I am used to a bike with a chain drive, which have alignment screws
on the rear fork.

3) Compressed air to listen for leaks?  Genius.

4) When you reassembled the rear drive, what elsemust be replaced?  Gaskets, washers?

5) Why did you replace the bearing on the gearbox?  Just cuz, or did you find a problem with the bearing?

I hope you got the Lario on the road again.
Thanks,
Pescatore
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 12, 2019, 07:40:31 PM
Quote
  Is alignment something to worry about? 
Well, "I" haven't been worried about it.  :smiley: There's not much to go wrong.
Aircraft mechanics have been using compressed air to check for leaks since..uhh.. forever.
Quote
When you reassembled the rear drive, what elsemust be replaced?  Gaskets, washers?
Gaskets.
Quote
Why did you replace the bearing on the gearbox?  Just cuz, or did you find a problem with the bearing?
Just cuz..  :smiley:
Quote
I hope you got the Lario on the road again.
It's never been off the road since the Aero engine conversion.
Sorry for the late reply, I don't come here often.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 12, 2019, 07:46:24 PM
Replaced the headlight bulb with an LED unit. Plug and play (and cheap.. Guzzi content) on the Lario headlight..
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C1AOSVS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Tail light bulbs were replaced with these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C63K92T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Plug and play also, bright, and very little power draw.  :thumb:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47929378107_177310b3ef_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Groover on June 13, 2019, 04:33:04 PM
Thanks for the photos and links to the parts. Are you pretty happy with the headlight light spread? The tail light looks like a must for sure. Makes me think of this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJh47LybCkU
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 13, 2019, 07:17:50 PM
Dunno about the headlight spread. <shrug> It looks ok on the Guzzi Garage (tm) wall, but I'll probably never ride it at night. With daylight savings time, I'm asleep before it gets dark.  :grin:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Groover on June 14, 2019, 07:03:24 AM
Gotcha, that should also extend the bulb life expectancy that way!
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Dave Swanson on June 14, 2019, 04:08:54 PM
Looking good Chuck!  I always liked the Lario.  I have put your LED suggestions in my Amazon cart. 
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Pescatore on July 20, 2019, 10:50:11 AM
Hello Chuck,
I am wondering how the exhaust pipes paint job is holding up.
Mine are just as bad as yours were and I am thinking of painting them (not gonna spend $500 to replace).  How about the silencers?

Thanks,
Pescatore
PS: I keep re-reading this post as I restore my V65GT. Can't thank you enough for it.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 07, 2019, 02:06:27 PM
Hello Chuck,
I am wondering how the exhaust pipes paint job is holding up.
Mine are just as bad as yours were and I am thinking of painting them (not gonna spend $500 to replace).  How about the silencers?

Thanks,
Pescatore
PS: I keep re-reading this post as I restore my V65GT. Can't thank you enough for it.

Sorry for the really late reply. Like I said, I don't come here much. I waste enough time on the main page.  :grin: Actually, the bbq high temp paint is doing well. I haven't repainted them yet.
I only came here this time to look back and see the order of parts on the rear master cylinder. During the Ohio rally last year, through some mis communication, the piston went into areas it isn't supposed to go. It has been getting a "tick" as I apply the brake, probably a seal. I'm going to put a new kit into it today, and thought, "Hmmm back in the day some guy rebuilt a Lario and told about how to do that.."  :smiley:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Pescatore on September 07, 2019, 08:15:50 PM
No worries.  Thanks for the reply.
I am doing something very similar and I refer to this thread a lot.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on September 10, 2019, 05:17:52 AM
No worries.  Thanks for the reply.
I am doing something very similar and I refer to this thread a lot.

With my memory  :rolleyes: I refer to it, too.. :grin:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 14, 2020, 01:24:04 PM
Tire update:
I'd been trying to find a matching set of tires with no luck because of the Weird Harold tire sizes on the Lario.  :grin:
I finally put a set of MT 75s on it, and they were a (relative) success. Because they are lower profile than stock, the already optimistic speedometer became the Grand PooBah of the Optimist's club.  :smiley: :boozing: Handled ok.
The rear lasted a little under 3000 miles. The front was still ok.. but I found a set of Conti scooter tires the same size and wanted to try the set to see if I like them any better. Time (and riding) will tell.
They have the same tread pattern as the Road Attack 3s of which I am a big fan. Of course, they *aren't* RA3s. :smiley:
They cost $120 for the pair.. delivered in one day from Bike Bandit.. with tax. (!) They also come with a 3 year road hazard *and* roadside flat tire assistance. (!!)
Sounds too good to be true, so it probably isn't..  :wink:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: huub on August 21, 2020, 08:14:23 AM
i run my lario on pirelli diablo rosso scooter tires.
it is nice to have modern rubber, they absolutely transformed the handling of the lario.
and as you noticed , being scooter tires , they are cheap.
only possible drawback , they are S rated , so 160 km/h.
absolutely recommended.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Huzo on February 19, 2021, 06:19:19 PM
Bump.
Is this it Chuck ?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 12, 2021, 04:15:13 PM
Bump.
Is this it Chuck ?
Not yet.  :smiley: Time for another update. The Conti Scoots have worked well. Decent handling  :thumb: and wear is ok.
At the Wisconsin rally this year, I decided that the AeroLario would be my "wind up" bike, and I might as well spend a little money on it. (Not Guzzi content.)  :wink: Special ordered a set of Mistrals from Cheesehead and Gordon. After weeks, they showed up, and eagerly opening the box I found they were chrome.  :rolleyes: Profuse apologies, and an offer to knock quite a bit of money off if I could live with them.
Nope. I want black, dammit.  :grin: I really don't want to paint these, so they sent the FedX guy to my house to pick them up.
More waiting, and some black ones just showed up.
Pulled off the Milich Special Rusty Bubs.  :smiley: Back in the day, I looked for small block Bubs for a really long time. Ed, of course, deals in Junque. As in expensive junk. When they showed up on the bay, I emailed him and asked if the guts were rusted out of them. "Nope." So, I bit the bullet and bought them.
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/33b97c7186fc6b3d/IMG_20211112_150913000.jpg)
They were nasty, but they were Bubs.. so I spent a fair amount of time on them, and ran them for several years. They were rusted together, so I couldn't repack them. Pretty raucous.
Eyeballed the new Mistrals, and "Uh oh." Not even close to fitting. When I grafted in the Aero engine, the exhaust system was one of the fussiest jobs on the whole conversion. Today, I started cutting and fitting. The Mistrals interfered with the bags and the kick up of the pipes didn't work either.
You can see the hanger template out of poster board with the Bubs. It was the first effort, and darned if it didn't work. (Blind hawgs finding acorns, and all that.)  :smiley:
Made a left and right hand out of steel and powder coated them flat black.
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/4fae8f2fbcb20aba/IMG_20211112_150837343.jpg)
(https://static.imgzeit.com/reduced/7658de42152fd0ae/IMG_20211112_150904659.jpg)
If anyone wants the rusty Bubs, I'll sell them for exactly what they are worth.
Nothin.
You have to pay shipping, though..  :smiley:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Frenchfrog on November 13, 2021, 03:29:20 AM
Whats the verdict of Bubs versus Mistral on the running and noise then Chuck ?
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 13, 2021, 07:11:46 AM
Whats the verdict of Bubs versus Mistral on the running and noise then Chuck ?

"Itsa not a noise, itsa sound."  :smiley:
Can't say, yet. It was cold and spitting rain on the ride from the shop to the Guzzi Garage (tm) yesterday. Didn't have earplugs in, so tough to tell about sound. The Mistrals seem to have less "bark" which is a good thing. I'm only guessing, but they are pretty free flowing, and I imagine carburation will be similar. Check back next Spring.. :wink:
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on November 16, 2021, 06:15:20 PM
Got in a ride today to fill up with Stabil and non ethanol fuel. Helmet and earplugs, so I can definitely say the Mistrals are *much* better for sound over the rusty Bubs. Not as loud and more mellow. I can here the engine "singing"  :smiley: when it's happy.
Title: Re: Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..
Post by: Frenchfrog on November 17, 2021, 03:51:31 AM
Fabulous result then Chuck !