Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..

[Chuck in Indiana]

WHat might she be weaving with that Chuck?  ;) 
-K

It would be expensive weaving. This stuff costs $3000 for a 2'x4' sheet.  :o ;D
I try not to screw it up...

[kevdog3019]

chips?  You have some 'splainin to do on this one.
Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

chips?  You have some 'splainin to do on this one.
Kevin

It's a generic term for what is coming off the mill or lathe cutter. The guy that cleans up the mess is the chippie or chipper, depending on the shop.

[kevdog3019]

It's a generic term for what is coming off the mill or lathe cutter. The guy that cleans up the mess is the chippie or chipper, depending on the shop.

Ahh... that's how the term "feeling chipper today" came about.  Learn something new everyday Chuck.   :P
-Kevin

[Offcamber1]

Chuck,

My tailpiece has a large crack in it, so I scavenged the tailpiece of the Lario that Ed Milich parted out.  It is an awful Krylon silver and blue so it will need to be painted.  Perhaps we can get Ron James liquored up enough Saturday night at his rally to get him to agree to paint both of ours sometime later this spring?  It aint worth mixing up special paint for one, but two and maybe a LMII/CX100 fairing...

Kip

[IceBlue]

Make sure the liquor isn't going to cost more than  just asking him straight off  :BEER:

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck,

My tailpiece has a large crack in it, so I scavenged the tailpiece of the Lario that Ed Milich parted out.  It is an awful Krylon silver and blue so it will need to be painted.  Perhaps we can get Ron James liquored up enough Saturday night at his rally to get him to agree to paint both of ours sometime later this spring?  It aint worth mixing up special paint for one, but two and maybe a LMII/CX100 fairing...

Kip

So, it matched that lovely seat you loaned me, eh?  ;D My tail piece is structurally sound, just looks bad. It'll take quite a bit of primer and sanding to fill the divots. If worse comes to worse, it'll get a rattle can job, too.  ~; I found a decent seat on the bay, btw.. only one minor tear. Cheep.  ;D

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ok, back at it. Another nice thing about a small block is once you have the frame off, you can just pick up the engine/transmission assembly and put it on the bench.

All together, children.. what happens when you look for trouble on an old machine? "YOU'LL FIND IT." Very good..

The center stand was ready to fail. Can't repair that right now, the cnc is running and I learned not to fire up the TIG with the cnc running several years ago. High frequency from the TIG during RS 232 communication can make smoke in the computer and cnc.  :o

This bolt was less than finger tight.  ::( This kind of stuff offends me. If a guy knows enough to be this far into a machine that can kill someone, he should at least care enough to make sure the fasteners are tight. Another was missing.  ::) <sigh>

Oh, well.. pull the frame rails off, clean and start disassembling.

Keep track of the bushings..

In Canuck750's most excellent Better than Moe's V7 restoration, he shows the fun part. What he doesn't show is the hours and hours of cleaning, repairing, etc.

I started to use my antique engine cleaning gun, and found the brass internal tubing had a split about 2 inches long. Probably a warranty issue, since I've only had it since the 50s.. so I sanded it, got some acid flux, acid core solder, and my antique big hummer soldering iron.. I'm beginning to see a pattern here..

And repaired it.

to be continued...

[Offcamber1]

So, it matched that lovely seat you loaned me, eh?

Unfortunately, yes.  Only you, I, Ed, and anyone who saw the bike together in Ed's shop can possibly visualize the travesty of that poor bike's cosmetic condition.  The really sad thing is the poor utterly tasteless sap who assaulted that once beautiful Lario with two rattle cans of silver Krylon and one of blue, and then paid some upolsterer to redo the seat in that appalling red and blue vinyl, probably thought the bike looked really cool.  I can only imagine what his ugly, overweight, tattooed and pierced girlfriend looked like when he had her pose on the bike for pictures while wearing hot pants, a halter top, and tall leather boots.  Look around on facetube (don't stop him, he's on a roll), I'm sure you'll find those pictures somewhere.  Makes me want to spew chunks just writing about it.



Ed did the Guzzi world a huge favor when he parted the sad thing out.

[Morizzi]

This bolt was less than finger tight.  ::( This kind of stuff offends me. If a guy knows enough to be this far into a machine that can kill someone, he should at least care enough to make sure the fasteners are tight. Another was missing.  ::) <sigh>

Chuck,

It isn't the first time I've had those bolts come loose. They do seem to be prone to it and if the normal nuts are used then they seem to self loosen.

I now use a combination of what I have to hold them in place, nylocs, spring washers and loctite.

Not making excuses for a PO, don't know why, just know they are prone to it.

Cheers

Rod

[IceBlue]

 :+1

Center stand bolts comes loose too occasionally on SB's.
Fasteners I recommend checked from time to time, or do as Rod suggests.

I'm a bit surprised over the rear swing bearing boss crack. Hope this is the correct name for it in English. I've never seen this before. Well, no intirely true, I've seen the boss break in half, with the bearing popped out. Not one of mine, though. The rear gearbox cover is the last thing you want breaking up on an SB. SB's are basically build around that cover  ;D Check the U-joint too. A faulty U-joint can do in a rear gearbox cover too - and that's no laughing matter  :-X

Ciao  

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck,

It isn't the first time I've had those bolts come loose. They do seem to be prone to it and if the normal nuts are used then they seem to self loosen.

I now use a combination of what I have to hold them in place, nylocs, spring washers and loctite.

Not making excuses for a PO, don't know why, just know they are prone to it.

Cheers

Rod

Thanks for the heads up.. I'll use blue lock tite when I reassemble it. I just figured that when I found the fasteners on the rear drive loose, and then these two, it was just a sloppy mechanic that put it back together.

[Chuck in Indiana]

rear swing bearing boss crack.

 :o :o Now I'm going to have to run out to the shop.. all I saw was a notchy bearing. ;D

[sthomag]

I'm following with great interest as I have never seen a 4 valve Guzzi opened up.
Are the rocker arms bronze, copper plated, or?

They're apparently flash copper plated. Engine parts often are; I've no idea why. People often mistake copper plating fro bronze plating, but bronze plating is very difficult and doesn't have that red-brown color.

No doubt they're made of forged steel. Bronze rocker arms would be far too heavy.

[Chuck in Indiana]

They're apparently flash copper plated. Engine parts often are; I've no idea why. People often mistake copper plating fro bronze plating, but bronze plating is very difficult and doesn't have that red-brown color.

No doubt they're made of forged steel. Bronze rocker arms would be far too heavy.

Yep, I stuck a magnet on em. Pretty things.. ;D

[Morizzi]

Thanks for the heads up.. I'll use blue lock tite when I reassemble it. I just figured that when I found the fasteners on the rear drive loose, and then these two, it was just a sloppy mechanic that put it back together.

I've never had issues with the rear drive bolts, just the frame/gearbox bolts.

Possibly a combination of vibration and sloppy work.  ;)

Rod

[Skeeve]

They're apparently flash copper plated. Engine parts often are; I've no idea why.

Probably because it keeps them from rusting while sitting on the parts shelf, and helps with heat xfer once put into use.

[Chas H]

They're apparently flash copper plated. Engine parts often are; I've no idea why. People often mistake copper plating fro bronze plating, but bronze plating is very difficult and doesn't have that red-brown color.

No doubt they're made of forged steel. Bronze rocker arms would be far too heavy.

Thanks for the reply, I was quite curious.
Copper plate is usually found on parts that have been case hardened as the copper prevents hardening and imbrittlement of surface underneath, but allows uplated surfaces to be hadrened. Connecting rods for 2 stroke engines often exhibit copper plating except for the bearing races. The tip of the rocker arms was probably hardened in this manner, and possibly the bore.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks for the reply, I was quite curious.
Copper plate is usually found on parts that have been case hardened as the copper prevents hardening and imbrittlement of surface underneath, but allows uplated surfaces to be hadrened. Connecting rods for 2 stroke engines often exhibit copper plating except for the bearing races. The tip of the rocker arms was probably hardened in this manner, and possibly the bore.

as the copper prevents hardening

End of the mystery.  ;D ;-T Makes sense.

[IceBlue]

:o :o Now I'm going to have to run out to the shop.. all I saw was a notchy bearing. ;D

Is it OK? Seems like a small peace of alu sticking out from the right side of the boss. Could be grease or dirt too...

[Chuck in Indiana]

Is it OK? Seems like a small peace of alu sticking out from the right side of the boss. Could be grease or dirt too...

That's twice you've given me a scare..  ;D ;D Nope just a bad bearing. Do you happen to know the bearing number?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ok, lets fix this centerstand. Bead blast so we can see what's going on.. just about to come off.

Hopefully, I have a big enough tip to do the job. We'll use copper coated mild steel filler.

Well, no. This ain't no airplane part.  ;) My biggest tip is a little too small, but I'll give it a go. Tack it here so it doesn't open up when starting to weld it.
 
Far from beautiful, but it's stuck. As I expected, oil kept percolating out of it.. letting it cool slowly by playing the flame over it keeps it from getting brittle. TIG would have been a nightmare on this job, the oil would have kept contaminating the puddle. Oxyacetylene is much more forgiving.

Hit it with some 220..

And rattle can to the rescue again.  ;D We can throw this on the done pile tomorrow when I'm back at work.

[IceBlue]

That's twice you've given me a scare..  ;D ;D Nope just a bad bearing. Do you happen to know the bearing number?

Here you go - the least I can do for giving you shock treatments  ;)


Guzzi part number 92 20 42 15

[Chuck in Indiana]

$12.02 each. Thanks, Brian..

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sprayed the engine/transmission with degreaser and brought it back to the bench to detail.

Naturally, the only way to completely clean for paint is to strip it down and abrasive blast it. Not going to happen.  ;D Right now, it's looking clean except for the fins on the cylinder and a few places on the finning on the case, so.. getcha some solvent, a popsickle stick or tongue depressor, cleaning cloths and have at it. It can be a Zen type of thing, just communing and knowing that the better job you do the better the engine will look in a few years. There's nothing to do wrong, so sit back, turn up the tunes, pop open a beer and while away a few hours.  ;D

[kevdog3019]

Lookin' good Chuck!   ;-T
Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks, Kevin.. I've had some body work sitting next to the rear drive for a week or so now, and I've gotten used to the color, so...
Mask it off, put THE BOX on a roll around stand, cover it and sit the engine on there. It all has to be painted at one time, so this way you can get underneath. I'm leaving the oil pan bare as that is the way it was. Also makes it easier to paint.  ;)

Wipe it down with grease and wax remover one last time, roll it into the paint booth, and have at it. Two light cross coats followed by one medium wet coat at 10 minute intervals. All have to be done in an hour. Keeps you pretty busy.  ;D

After it's dried dust free, roll it back into the shop to cure for a week before messing with it. Same drill as before, pull the tapes as soon as practical.. it makes cleaner edges.

[kevdog3019]

Now that's sharp!!  :drool  You have planted a seed for a future winter project. 
-Kevin

[huub]

wow, nice work.
i am suddenly interested in lario's , i just bought one a couple of hours ago.  ;D
the temptation to start mucking around with valvesprings and valves proved too big.
i did  read anything i can find on valves and valvesprings ,
one french page qoutes GSXR 750 valves ( both inlet and exhaust)

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://k1c.free.fr/articles.php%3Flng%3Dfr%26pg%3D192&usg=ALkJrhgvsmYVji7YY3ggGA6S6xDEhpiBpQ

that sound like a pretty easy way out , buy a used suzuki head , and you end up with 16 valves.
anybody tried those?

[kevdog3019]

wow, nice work.
i am suddenly interested in lario's , i just bought one a couple of hours ago.  ;D
the temptation to start mucking around with valvesprings and valves proved too big.
i did  read anything i can find on valves and valvesprings ,
one french page qoutes GSXR 750 valves ( both inlet and exhaust)

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=fr&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://k1c.free.fr/articles.php%3Flng%3Dfr%26pg%3D192&usg=ALkJrhgvsmYVji7YY3ggGA6S6xDEhpiBpQ

that sound like a pretty easy way out , buy a used suzuki head , and you end up with 16 valves.
anybody tried those?

Never heard of using those valves.  I'd get verification. 
Must have :PICS!:
-Kevin