Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..

[IceBlue]

Me neither. But if they have the correct measurements, why not.

The link you shared looks very interesting, although the google translation is a bit bumpy for me to get it all.

An additional dimension to this is to make sure the cam is the 14mm version.
I have a couple of tappets in my shop like the ones shown. Nasty  >:(
... and a 12mm cam even worse than the one shown.

You are in for an exciting, but rewarding journey Huub ;-T
 

[Unkept]

Very nice work Chuck! I'm inspired.  ;-T

I just bought some banged up titanium "accessori" mufflers for my V11 lemans. The same kind you have on your "Rosie". $150 shipped!  ;D Can't wait to get to work on those + the needle roller bearing I need to replace... (Found the  Koyo Torrington HK2516.2RS Needle Roller Bearing on Amazon for $14.70 shipped instead of Guzzi's  $46.47).

[mwrenn]

Well, looked up the GXSR valves,  the head dimensions and length are ok, but stem diameter is 1 mm less.  To use them you would need custom guides, or find some guides the right dimension.  Personally, I would stick with the stock dimension valves, I would be afraid of the smaller diameter stems being weaker.  The stock Guzzi Lario valves I have step down to a smaller dimension by the head, to increase airflow I suppose.  Of course that's where they break as well.  Hmmmm..

[Chas H]

The GSXR engine uses inverted bucket tappets pushing directly on the valves, which eliminates any side thrust on the valve stems. Using such a skinny stem in a rocker arm operated system is not a good idea.

[Chuck in Indiana]

FWIW, the dealer expo at Indy was this weekend. A fellow Guzzi guy and dealer kindly gave me a pass,  ;-T so I jumped at it. *Lots* of good info there. I talked to the Kibblewhite people a bit, and they said there were some (forged one piece stainless) Suzuki valves that were easy to modify to fit the Lario. They were familiar with what is going on with Kev's bike, yada yada. I haven't even looked at their catalog yet, but I'm sure they know what they are doing. So. If I were thinking about doing a Lario, I'd at least have a look at their catalog.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

FWIW, the dealer expo at Indy was this weekend. A fellow Guzzi guy and dealer kindly gave me a pass,  ;-T so I jumped at it. *Lots* of good info there. I talked to the Kibblewhite people a bit, and they said there were some (forged one piece stainless) Suzuki valves that were easy to modify to fit the Lario. They were familiar with what is going on with Kev's bike, yada yada. I haven't even looked at their catalog yet, but I'm sure they know what they are doing. So. If I were thinking about doing a Lario, I'd at least have a look at their catalog.

Seems some Charlie fellow mentioned Kibblewhite back before IceBlue had his Chinese valves made...  ;D

[lucky phil]

Chuck, I do understand the premis upon which this rebuild is happening and enjoy the thread but I must say I hate painted fastener heads.
Was contemplating this as I need to paint the gearbox on my V11 sport to match the daytona motor when I fit it. What a PITA to fit new fasteners but as I said I hate the look of them painted.
ciao  

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck, I do understand the premis upon which this rebuild is happening and enjoy the thread but I must say I hate painted fastener heads.
Was contemplating this as I need to paint the gearbox on my V11 sport to match the daytona motor when I fit it. What a PITA to fit new fasteners but as I said I hate the look of them painted.
ciao  

Most of the factory Guzzi fasteners were painted on this one.  ;D And, I agree. I'm planning on replacing them as I get around to it.

[mwrenn]

FWIW, the dealer expo at Indy was this weekend. A fellow Guzzi guy and dealer kindly gave me a pass,  ;-T so I jumped at it. *Lots* of good info there. I talked to the Kibblewhite people a bit, and they said there were some (forged one piece stainless) Suzuki valves that were easy to modify to fit the Lario. They were familiar with what is going on with Kev's bike, yada yada. I haven't even looked at their catalog yet, but I'm sure they know what they are doing. So. If I were thinking about doing a Lario, I'd at least have a look at their catalog.

Kibblewhite is making some Black Diamond valves for my 4V project.  $106 each, for eight valves.  Im pretty sure they won't break though.  LOL  Intakes and exhausts will both be 21-4N stainless.  I tried to get Iconel for the exhausts, but they did not have blanks that small.

[Chuck in Indiana]

$106 each

 :o ;D Hey, if you want to play, ya gotta pay.. ;)

[kevdog3019]

Kibblewhite is making some Black Diamond valves for my 4V project.  $106 each, for eight valves.  Im pretty sure they won't break though.  LOL  Intakes and exhausts will both be 21-4N stainless.  I tried to get Iconel for the exhausts, but they did not have blanks that small.

There you go!  Mine are Kibbles but not stock size.
Kevin

[mwrenn]

:o ;D Hey, if you want to play, ya gotta pay.. ;)

Yeah, finding that out!  LOL  I figure expensive valves are cheap insurance.  :BEER:

[Chuck in Indiana]

Alrighty, let's replace the swing arm bearings. There isn't any work like this on airplanes, so I've never been tooled up to do it. I *have* removed a blind bearing by making a punch a few thousandths smaller than the bearing bore, filling the bore with grease, smacking the punch with a hammer, and forcing the bearing out that way. You have to make the punch, and it's messy.<shrug> So, Joe.. from the other thread.. this is the Harbor Freight blind bearing puller set. Like most of their stuff, you can find a coupon and get it for about half price. I saw this kit one time, thought, "How can they do that this cheaply?" I bought it for 30 some bucks, including the pretty decent blow molded case. I couldn't buy the steel to make it for that  ::) and it is decent quality. It'll do bearings from 3/8 to 1 inch.

Just put it in and tighten it hand tight.. no need to try to break it by using wrenches.  ;D Screw the slide hammer on the remover, and a few light taps will pull that bearing right out of there.

To install the new bearings, find a socket that is a little smaller than the outside diameter of the bearing. You *never* want to hit a bearing on the inner race. I put the new bearings in the freezer and let them get down to zero. Speed is of the essence, now. Insert the cold bearing in the bore and line it up squarely. Tap around the outside of the bearing with your copper (or brass or lead, not steel :o ) hammer, keeping it square going into the bore. It will go in pretty easily, because if it is too tight a press fit the bearing will bind up. It's just a very light press fit by design. As it starts to get flush, use your custom bearing driver socket and tap it home.

Nothing to it..

Might as well put some more parts back on it while we're here. Never reuse cotter pins. Like anything with tits, wheels, or wings, it'll cause you grief sooner or later.. ;D A little Marvel Mystery oil will wick in and not attract dirt. A dab of grease on the clutch pushrod and adjuster, and we'll call this end done.

 :wife: "I saw you bringing the camera in. You aren't out there playing with the Lario instead of working are you??" "No, boss, I'm earning my $40 a week and 3 beers.. just doing some stuff while the machine runs.." ;D

[Unkept]

Looking good Chuck. Thanks for that tutorial/product review. I'll see what I can find at the store..

Also, putting the bearing in the freezer... duh!  ;D I would've just hit the rear drive with a heat gun to make it expand before I put the bearing in.  :)

[dl.allen]

Chuck, love the build thread. 

Question, how do you measure the valve guide specs?  I see the pic on page one showing a caliper?

Thanks

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck, love the build thread. 

Question, how do you measure the valve guide specs?  I see the pic on page one showing a caliper?

Thanks

Thanks! Glad someone is getting something out of it. That's a micrometer. The other gizmo is a small hole gauge. You can adjust it until it has a slight drag in the bore. There's an acquired feel to using this stuff.. ;)

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yeah, finding that out!  LOL  I figure expensive valves are cheap insurance.  :BEER:

Especially on a project like yours, the best *is* none too good. You are in untraveled waters.  ;-T

[Chuck in Indiana]

Looking good Chuck. Thanks for that tutorial/product review. I'll see what I can find at the store..

Also, putting the bearing in the freezer... duh!  ;D I would've just hit the rear drive with a heat gun to make it expand before I put the bearing in.  :)

Of course, that would have worked, too. Or a combination of both. Bearing fits are normally only around .001/.002" interference, so it isn't a fussy job. It's real easy to just throw them in the freezer...

[Chuck in Indiana]

Patina? We gots it.  ;D In spades..



This is a little more serious. I bought a can of Chevrolet orange/red on the off chance it would match. Close, but no cigar.. so off to the paint store.

Talked to the kid.. why is it always a kid any more?  ;D about what system to use, and decided on an enamel with hardener. Here, he's using the computer gizmo to get the color match..

He said a pint would do what I need to do, and mixed it up. When he brought it out, we both agreed that it looked too orange. He called his mom.. ;D :BEER: I feel better.. and she took it away and mixed in some more color.
$62 and change later,  :o I have enough stuff to paint a frame rail and the tail piece. I'm certainly glad that airplane paint is cheap by comparison.

It's a slippery slope from here.  ;)

[IceBlue]

Have you rhough about glass blasting those rails. I just have that done to a pair. Makes the paint stick well to them. Cheap too - if you know the shop owner  ;D

[Chuck in Indiana]

Have you rhough about glass blasting those rails. I just have that done to a pair. Makes the paint stick well to them. Cheap too - if you know the shop owner  ;D

Yeah, I'll do that. I know the boss of this operation in the biblical sense.  :o;D I just sanded the bad part to see how bad it is.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Well, you have to give Guzzi credit for having some tenacious paint on the valve covers. My bead blast media wasn't going to get it off in my lifetime.. ;D This is the second application of aircraft paint stripper. I made some quicky paint scrapers out of hard plastic, and went at it. Some of the work in cleaning up an old machine isn't too glamorous...

A couple of hours later, we're much closer. My 30 year old Monkey Grips  ::) kept the skin grafts at bay.. and are as stiff and difficult to use as always.

I hear the lunch whistle blowing. I'll put one more application on, and let them sit through lunch. Glad it isn't a V8! ;)

[kevdog3019]

Interesting on those.  We simply buffed mine on a good buffing wheel and they came out shiny alum.  Clear-coated and called it good.  Maybe mine had been tampered with, but I seem to remember them being whitish.  Don't know.  Looks good.
-Kevin   

[Tobit]

It took a wire wheel and a lot of patience to get the deep blue powder coat off of my LeMans IV rocker covers.  The commercial shop that blasted the wheels bare said pretty much the same thing about the OEM red.  That it was the toughest PC removal job he'd ever run up against.

Tobit

[Ronkom]

Looking good Chuck, enjoying the thread, learning a lot.
As the thread is being followed by a group interested in the daily rider type restoration, Here's a testimonial. I just finished up an '85 LeMans IV that had lived outside long enough to badly fade the red paint, actually causing the decals on the plastic parts to dry up & curl. I went shopping for some ultra fine rubbing compound. Based on good experience with other Meguiar's products I decided to try:

  Meguiar's ULTIMATE compound color & clarity restorer

 Boys, this stuff REALLY worked for me. I now have a VaBRIBS (Virginia Bright Red Italian Bug Swatter) I did a small section on the hood of the Nissan pup, the difference in appearance and feel (sliding the fingers from the untreated to the treated section) was amazing. I will be using it on the whole truck when (if) the weather ever gives us a break.
Ron Komoroski

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks, Ron.. although I doubt you'll learn much from me. I've seen your work.  ;D I'll second you on the Ultimate compound. When Brad and I picked up Rosie, she was in poor shape. The previous owner apparently just... didn't...care. There were even silver paint droplets all over that beautiful tank. Brad used to be a pro painter, and after looking at it said, "I can fix that." We went to the local Autozone, and he started opening various compounds and rubbing it between his fingers. He'd always used pro stuff, and didn't know what the consumer chemicals were like. When he got to the Ultimate, he said, "This will do."  ;D We picked up a couple of pads for my buffer, and an hour or so later, Rosie was glowing.  ;-T I applied a couple of coats of Zaino, and she said she looked better than she had in years. ;D :BEER:
I spent a good part of the day getting the paint off these valve covers. (!!) Whatever they used was tough. I finally finished by bead blasting them. Didn't want to, but that was what it was going to take to clean them up. Washed and rinsed them twice in hot soapy water, and asked Dorcia if she minded putting them in the dish washer.  :o She said, "Sure, but let me run this load of dirty dishes, you wouldn't want to get food on them."  ;D ;D She's a keeper.  ;-T Here they are in the drainer waiting their turn..

Added a wipe of filler and block sanded the tail piece.

It's too cold to paint, so I'll have to find something else to do tomorrow.

[Chuck in Indiana]

One problem with the small blocks, I understand, is if they grenade a u joint it takes out the transmission casting. Guzzi builds the motorcycle around that casting, and you don't want to lose it.  ;D One of the listers sent me the dimensions of a steel sleeve to fit into the casting, so while it's too cold to paint, I thought I'd make one. Ran to the local muffler shop and got a piece of stainless muffler tubing that is pretty close to the I.D. and O.D. of the piece. There's no way that a chuck could hold it, though, so I make a slug out of plastic I had laying around.. I have *lots* of plastic laying around. This stuff is pretty soft, and not the best choice. Steel or aluminum or hard plastic would have been better, but I'm a firm believer in "run whatcha brung."  ;D

Drive that sucker into the tubing, and you have something that a 3 jaw chuck can hold.

Chucked it into my antique LeBlonde Regal lathe.. There is a reoccurring thing with antique here.. but my modern toy lathe wouldn't begin to do this job. It's a pleasure to run this old sucker. It does everything a new lathe will do except cut those sissy metric threads.  ~; ;D :BEER:

Strangely enough, the taper is right, but there's no way that the sleeve will go all the way in. Hmmmm. When you first fail to succeed, give up. No need making a fool of yourself. ;) Deburred, cut the excess off, and threw it in the freezer. Tomorrow I'll drive it home and call this job done.

[kevdog3019]

Chuck... what about the rest of us?  :P
You realize you just became the purveyor of U-joint guards for the sb's.  :bow  Name your cost! 

Nice work!  ;-T
-Kevin

[John Ulrich]

I applied a couple of coats of Zaino

Zaino....... You're using the good stuff.  Save some for the daily drivers!   ;-T 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck... what about the rest of us?  :P
You realize you just became the purveyor of U-joint guards for the sb's.  :bow  Name your cost! 

Nice work!  ;-T
-Kevin

Kevin.. there would be some development involved to make sure that one size would fit all. I made this one to the dimensions Morizi gave me, and it was too big in diameter. Once you cut if off the blank, there's no way that you can make it smaller.. you have to make another. Why didn't it fit? Dunno. According to how much was sticking out, I'd guess it needs to be .012/.013" smaller in diameter. Differences in paint thickness? Wear on the mold? Maybe different molds? Dunno again. Besides that.. I'm *not* looking for work. ;D