Author Topic: Wheel balancing weight  (Read 2166 times)

Offline ohiorider

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Wheel balancing weight
« on: June 12, 2022, 07:46:35 PM »
OK, guys and gals ....... I've ridden bikes since forever, and should know the answer to this, but I don't!

My new 2021 Kawasaki W800 retro bike doesn't have balancing weights that glue to the alloy rims.  It appears the balancing weights (if that's what they are) are attached to one of the spokes at a specific distance from the hub and rim, and are held in place on the spoke with a set screw.  I'm only guessing that once the basic point of imbalance is figured out, the distance from the hub that the weights are located determines how much balancing force they will exert.

How does one balance a wheel with such a setup?  I think it is retro, but this may be a step too far.

Bob
« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 07:48:44 PM by ohiorider »
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
New:  2021 Kawasaki W800

Offline SmithSwede

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2022, 08:45:47 PM »
When I balance a wheel, I use tape to temporarily hold the weight to the wheel until I’ve figured out the amount of weight necessary.   You would do the same thing on your W800; and use weight wherever you want to put it.  Personally, I use FabriTac glue and just glue them to the rim. 
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Offline guzziart

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2022, 06:57:46 AM »
With laced wheels I use stick-on weights temporarily to determine where & how much weight is needed.  Once that determination is made, I go back with the specified weight in solder.  I also use a Marc Parnes balancer in conjunction with a 1lb spool of solder & Wally World $15 digital scale.





Additionally, I have moved the solder wrap above the spoke nipple since taking this pic.

Art

PS - Hey Bob, we missed ya at Mike's Place for Guzzi Breakfast yesterday.
'71 CB350, '72 Eldo, '72 CL350, '81 CB125s, '87 LMIVSE, '91 CT70, '03 V11 Lemans, '08 Wing  ('12 Wee Strom - R.I.P.)

Online Huzo

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2022, 09:01:18 AM »
What you can do is…
Make damn sure the wheel is true, because no amount of weight addition will remedy a geometrically eccentric wheel, it’ll thrash around like a cheap sex toy left running on the counter.

So we have a nice round wheel that’s spoked up truly.
Gently spin the wheel and allow it to come to rest with the heaviest point at the bottom and repeat a few times to average the results.
Mark the low (heavy) point with a marker and rotate the wheel so that the heavy point is at the 3 o’  clock position.
Fit the weight to the appropriate spoke at the 9o’clock position and slide it in or out so that upon release, the wheel will not attempt to rotate.
Several trial spins to make sure the wheel comes to rest in a different position each time, will indicate you have it balanced.

PersonallyI don’t like the notion of applying those sort of forces to the spoke, but people seem to get away with it.

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2022, 09:01:18 AM »

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2022, 09:05:20 AM »
Bob - are they this sort of weight?
https://www.nomartirechanger.com/wt-spk12ch.html
Charlie

Online Huzo

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2022, 09:08:35 AM »
Or just skip balancing them all together. You may find there is no difference balanced or not.
Or you may find there is.
You could BS yourself into thinking the thrashing was just road irregularities, but that’s why some people’s bikes are nice to ride and some are not.
If you can’t be bothered balancing your wheels, you’re no better than someone who uses margarine in their cookies instead of butter…
Half arsed shortcut approach.

Offline guzziart

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2022, 09:16:20 AM »
Or just skip balancing them all together. You may find there is no difference balanced or not.

I would think if that were the case more folks would get away from balancing because of the expense and unaesthetic looking weights.  Or what is an acceptable out of balance range...less than 1/4oz, 7g, etc.?

One of my (used) bikes came with balancing beads, while I thought they worked ok, everytime I checked tire pressure beads would not allow the schrader to re-seat and seal unless I added air to blow the veat seat clean. So, I'm not a fan of balancing beads but the benefit is no unsightly weights...I guess.
'71 CB350, '72 Eldo, '72 CL350, '81 CB125s, '87 LMIVSE, '91 CT70, '03 V11 Lemans, '08 Wing  ('12 Wee Strom - R.I.P.)

Offline guzziart

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2022, 09:24:04 AM »
Bob - are they this sort of weight?
https://www.nomartirechanger.com/wt-spk12ch.html

Hey Charlie,

If I had wheels as nice looking as those in the Nomar link I'd buy the Nomar weights vs. my backyard cheap azz solder baloney!

Art
'71 CB350, '72 Eldo, '72 CL350, '81 CB125s, '87 LMIVSE, '91 CT70, '03 V11 Lemans, '08 Wing  ('12 Wee Strom - R.I.P.)

Online John A

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2022, 11:11:43 AM »
I enjoy balancing a motorcycle wheel. It’s a sick but rewarding practice for me. The closer you get to balance, the more difficult it becomes so I usually quit at a quarter ounce. I put a vibrater on my wheel stand to lessen the sticktion that would hold the wheel from rotating on its mandrels. After being a migrant helicopter mechanic and seeing the move to electronic balancing equipment which is very nice indeed, I still like the hands on intuitive methods I learned.
I never once regretted balancing a motorcycle wheel and tire after I’m over 80 mph..
John
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Online Caffeineo

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2022, 01:44:28 PM »
I stopped balancing wheels when I started using a tire sealant. They claim to also balance the wheel. So far - so good. https://www.ride-on.com/
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Online Huzo

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2022, 03:35:57 PM »
I enjoy balancing a motorcycle wheel. It’s a sick but rewarding practice for me. The closer you get to balance, the more difficult it becomes so I usually quit at a quarter ounce. I put a vibrater on my wheel stand to lessen the sticktion that would hold the wheel from rotating on its mandrels. After being a migrant helicopter mechanic and seeing the move to electronic balancing equipment which is very nice indeed, I still like the hands on intuitive methods I learned.
I never once regretted balancing a motorcycle wheel and tire after I’m over 80 mph..
Yes.
Tell me this isn’t fun.
https://youtu.be/RcIi5EUwDRo

Online Ncdan

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2022, 04:35:23 PM »
I guess I’ve just been lucky because over the 50+ years of riding and owning a couple dozen bikes and uncountable tires, I’ve never had a MC tire that had to be removed from the bike and balanced after changing out to new tires without balancing.
Not recommending or suggesting for one not to balance their MC tires, just sharing my personal experiences on the subject.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 06:29:10 AM by Ncdan »

Offline ohiorider

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2022, 06:50:55 PM »
I hate to admit that old(er) age might have confused me!  In my mind, after looking at the weight on the W800, I pictured it as the NoMar weights shown in a previous part of this thread. 

Not to be!  I went back to the garage and re-examined the weight, and found it to be one that is crimped onto one of the spokes.  Sorry, but I did learn a bunch about wheel weights from this thread!  You guys are the best!

Bob
« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 06:54:10 PM by ohiorider »
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
New:  2021 Kawasaki W800

Offline kballowe

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2022, 12:51:48 PM »
I guess I’ve just been lucky because over the 50+ years of riding and owning a couple dozen bikes and uncountable tires, I’ve never had a MC tire that had to be removed from the bike and balanced after changing out to new tires without balancing.
Not recommending or suggesting for one not to balance their MC tires, just sharing my personal experiences on the subject.

Wow !  Now, THAT is pushing the envelope right there !   When I grow up, I wanna be just like YOU !
 :boozing: :boozing: :boozing:

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Online Ncdan

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2022, 01:48:49 PM »
Wow !  Now, THAT is pushing the envelope right there !   When I grow up, I wanna be just like YOU !
 :boozing: :boozing: :boozing:

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It’ll never happen grasshopper, I’m afraid you’ve missed the boat already 😂
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 01:56:45 PM by Ncdan »

Offline moto-uno

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2022, 01:50:13 PM »
  You know guys ( and gals ) I've never been able to see the visual difference wheel weights make to my bikes at 50mph :bow: . Peter

Offline ohiorider

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2022, 05:43:06 PM »
  You know guys ( and gals ) I've never been able to see the visual difference wheel weights make to my bikes at 50mph :bow: . Peter
Yes ....... and ........ ??
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
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New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
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Online John A

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2022, 07:18:40 PM »
I’m happy to have the freedom to maintain my motorcycle to my own standards. Most of the time modern tires are well balanced from the factory and don’t need correction. Sometimes  the wheel itself is out . I just don’t like finding out around a hunnerd mph :grin:
John
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Offline wymple

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2022, 10:05:28 PM »
" it’ll thrash around like a cheap sex toy left running on the counter."

Experience?
No trees were harmed by the conveyance of this message, but a lot of electrons were seriously disturbed.

Online Huzo

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2022, 11:18:42 PM »
" it’ll thrash around like a cheap sex toy left running on the counter."

Experience?
No not personally..
I don’t leave mine on the counter… :rolleyes:

Offline kballowe

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2022, 05:51:20 AM »
We usually check them - on a static balancer.
Most times, they are "good enough"





Offline guzziart

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2022, 07:32:32 AM »
Imho, I'll continue balance my wheels whenever I replace a tire.  When I had access to an electronic wheel balancer, wheels would have zero imbalance when done.  I don't have access to that equipment anymore so I got a Parnes balancer, I think it works adequately and I'm satisfied with the outcome.  With so many other things on a bike that could produce an odd vibration (head/wheel/swing arm bearings, engine mounts, chewed up alt belt, center stand slop, etc.) why not balance or check for imbalance when given the opportunity (e.g. tire replacement).  If the vehicle manufacturers could (save $$$) get away with not balancing wheel & tire assemblies they would.  And, I think it would be more cost effective to use balancing beads or balancing Slime but they don't use that either....just my observations.
'71 CB350, '72 Eldo, '72 CL350, '81 CB125s, '87 LMIVSE, '91 CT70, '03 V11 Lemans, '08 Wing  ('12 Wee Strom - R.I.P.)

Offline Markcarovilli

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2022, 08:11:52 AM »
now Art you are just making to much damned sense......


Mark

Offline SmithSwede

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2022, 06:48:09 PM »
I have a good static balancer.  I always balance my newly mounted tires, just to know I’ve done the job right.   

As to the wheel weight itself, I used to buy the special made ones.  But then I realized that I already have tens of thousands of little pieces of lead, so now I use those instead.  Don’t judge me.  It works fine, and sometimes starts interesting conversations. 





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Online Huzo

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2022, 07:00:41 PM »
I’ve read a lot of posts here about checking static balance and that’s ok, but as mentioned, you must check and ascertain that your wheels are true.
Especially spoked ones.
It’s utterly pointless trying to balance a wheel that has radial runout (especially).
If the radius of the wheel is larger at the valve (for instance) than radially opposite even by 2 mm, that will show up as a heavy spot at the valve and you will feel constrained to add weight on the opposite side.
That will give you perfect static balance, but you will still have a vibrating wheel in motion.
Can be quite perplexing when first encountered.
Also with the greatest of respect to anyone who holds the opinion that it’s a waste of time…
You can ride off down the road and feel all the lumps and bumps that a modern road can throw at you and tell yourself that the surface is crap and it possibly is, but some of those shocks coming up the ‘bars, will be from the wheel.

Make no mistake, if you true and balance your wheels and give your Guzzi written notice that you are going to zoom up to 200 kph on a smooth road..?
It’s really nice to look down at the front axle and it’s dead still.

Online Huzo

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2022, 07:30:11 PM »
I put a vibrater on my wheel stand
:gotpics:
This’ll be good.

Online John A

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2022, 09:04:45 PM »
:gotpics:
This’ll be good.




I thought everyone did that. I wouldn’t have mentioned it but I had visions of yours on the counter, I never even heard of that before….
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
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Offline guzziart

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2022, 06:24:29 AM »
I’ve read a lot of posts here about checking static balance and that’s ok, but as mentioned, you must check and ascertain that your wheels are true.
Especially spoked ones.

 :thumb:

I find myself more closely scrutinizing wheel true/run-out/spoke tension now that I'm static balancing my wheels.  Fortunately for me, I haven't encountered a truing issue...yet.
'71 CB350, '72 Eldo, '72 CL350, '81 CB125s, '87 LMIVSE, '91 CT70, '03 V11 Lemans, '08 Wing  ('12 Wee Strom - R.I.P.)

Offline kirby1923

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2022, 09:31:33 AM »
I have developed the habit of balancing the bare (tireless) wheels with a somewhat permanent weight. Most tires I have found are "close" to being balanced so mounting and balancing the tire usually takes an oz or so. (sometimes less)

I'm definitely in the "should balance" camp. I believe it to be needed and should be done especially if you are a "high-speed type or going for a track day run. (Also long-distance at freeway speeds).

My .02c

:-)
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Online John A

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Re: Wheel balancing weight
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2022, 10:31:42 PM »
^^^ Yep, it becomes more important the faster you travel. while I can’t claim wheel bearings last longer, I think they do. Vibration can be a weird thing, even when it’s imperceptible. Harmonics can make other things  vibrate under different conditions. Adding them all up, it’s a wonder they are as smooth as they are.
John
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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
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15 F3S Spyder

 

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