Paperwork Required to buy a bike in PA

[smsw]

What is the procedure to buy a used bike from a dealer in Pennsylvania and immediately taking it out of state for titling in another state?

Here in Ohio, if I sell a motor vehicle (motorcycles, too) I simply sign the title, fill out buyer's name and address and purchase price, hand him the title and the bike, and off he goes.

When I bought my VStrom in Indiana, the seller did the same and I took the bike home with the title and a bill of sale (my form from online). Ohio BMV inspected the bike, took the Indiana title, relieved me of sales tax on the purchase price and license plate transfer fees and handed me new stickers, a title and a pat on the back.

I called a dealer in Pennsylvania, we agreed on a price for a used bike in his stock (phone conversation) and he wants $464 documentation fee on top of our agreed price for the bike. Since I'm titling it out of state, there is no sales tax and no license (tags) fee. It is a cash sale. I will trailer it home. If PA's procedures are the same as Ohio and Indiana, he is padding the sale (my opinion).

Years ago, we bought a used car. When the dealer pulled the folder out I saw the title for the car was still in the previous owner's name - so they had invested nothing in the paperwork until the car sold (to me). That's when he transferred the title to me and my wife.

What do you know about the paperwork and procedures in PA?

[Perazzimx14]

What is the procedure to buy a used bike from a dealer in Pennsylvania and immediately taking it out of state for titling in another state?

Here in Ohio, if I sell a motor vehicle (motorcycles, too) I simply sign the title, fill out buyer's name and address and purchase price, hand him the title and the bike, and off he goes.

When I bought my VStrom in Indiana, the seller did the same and I took the bike home with the title and a bill of sale (my form from online). Ohio BMV inspected the bike, took the Indiana title, relieved me of sales tax on the purchase price and license plate transfer fees and handed me new stickers, a title and a pat on the back.

I called a dealer in Pennsylvania, we agreed on a price for a used bike in his stock (phone conversation) and he wants $464 documentation fee on top of our agreed price for the bike. Since I'm titling it out of state, there is no sales tax and no license (tags) fee. It is a cash sale. I will trailer it home. If PA's procedures are the same as Ohio and Indiana, he is padding the sale (my opinion).

Years ago, we bought a used car. When the dealer pulled the folder out I saw the title for the car was still in the previous owner's name - so they had invested nothing in the paperwork until the car sold (to me). That's when he transferred the title to me and my wife.

What do you know about the paperwork and procedures in PA?

The PA title will have to have the buyers name and address filled in the "buyers" section of the title. Then the PA seller will have to sign the title (in front of a notary) the notary will notarize the seller's signature and the title is ready to be taken to whatever ever state the buyer is from to their DMV.

If the PA title is not signed and notarized Pennsylvania will not release the title to the next state. As notary cannot legally notarized a signature, they did not witness.

$464 for a document is absolute BS. There is nothing to document. All they need to do is have their inhouse notary sign and stamp the title and hand it to you. A notary signature/stamp is traditionally $5 fee. UNfortunately there is no set notary fee structure and notary can change anything they want. If the deale does not want to waive $459 of the $464 on fee's I'd tell him to meet me at a local notary with title and we'll do the title work there and then go back and get the bike.

Seriously I'd type in the dealers address then look for locally notaries near to the dealership and start calling asking there fee to notarize a seller's signature on a PA title. The dealership will have a POA that the seller signed allowing the dealer to sign for them. This is legit and the dealer can legally stand in for the seller.

Assuming there is no lien on the bike:

Here is the back of a PA title. The notary takes care of the top left (blue highlighted areas)

Buyers information and signature in red (top left section)

Seller or their representative AKA dealer- name and signature in blue (under the buyers information)

Notary will verify both seller and buyer information copy of their DL license PA must provide a valid DL when purchasing a vehicle this rule came into play last year. Out off state does not have to have a valid DL but will have to show some sort of identification) and then fill in the mileage, list their commission date and signs and notarized the title (top left areas highlighted in blue). DONE! Its a 5 minute process.

[skixc1]

I'm from Pennsylvania and even when I bought a vehicle in state and went to the local notary/title/license person, NOT including state taxes or the license, I never spent more than $75 in fees. $464 is extremely unreasonable, especially for someone buying from out of state.

[cookiemech]

Yes, if you are buying from a private seller, all you need to do is go to a notary and the cost will be reasonable (in most cases).

But the OP is buying from a dealer, and the dealer is gouging. Unless he can talk the dealer out of the ridiculous fees, his only options are to walk and to pay the fees.

[Perazzimx14]

Yes, if you are buying from a private seller, all you need to do is go to a notary and the cost will be reasonable (in most cases).

But the OP is buying from a dealer, and the dealer is gouging. Unless he can talk the dealer out of the ridiculous fees, his only options are to walk and to pay the fees.

Actually the dealer can do the notary work for free as that it is highly likely the person who the dealers uses as a notary is also one of the dealership employee's and already getting the same wage no matter if the notarize 1 document or 1000. You do not have to charge for notary work for it to be legal.

[Vagrant]

It's just "added dealer profit". Negotiate, walk away, or pay. Your choice.

[Perazzimx14]

FWIW Ohio is also a Notary state like Pennsylvania meaning that Ohio titles need to have the seller sign the title in front of a notary and then the notary has to sign and seal the title.

Here is a list of Non-notary states where the seller can sign the title and had it to the buyer without a notary signature/seal:

[kingoffleece]

Here's a thought.  Why not ask what the fee is for/includes.  Then you have options.  Pay, pass, or negotiate.

[Perazzimx14]

Here's a thought.  Why not ask what the fee is for/includes.  Then you have options.  Pay, pass, or negotiate.

Already stated as "Document fee" that translates into fluff fee.

[mechanicsavant]

Did they also charge ya for floor mats too ?

[Perazzimx14]

This is on the rare occasion I deal with a dealership I only entertain the OTD price not the price of the bike then the fee's then the tax then the....... On the even more rare instance I am trading a vehicle I don't care about the trade value. The dealer can give me 100X book value or give me one dollar for it, it's irrelevant. I also don't care about the price they are asking the vehicle I'm interested in buying, interest rate, loan term or anything other than the OTD price as in the exact amount of money it takes to buy the vehicle. Once the dealer gives me the OTD number I can then decide to buy or walk.

So many dealerships bait people in with low price tags then start with fee's to make it up difference. It's a sales tactic that as soon as I see it happening stop and walk away.

[rocker59]

Doc Fees are standard fluff fees at all dealerships, auto and moto.

It's best to ask what the fees are before you agree on a sales price, so you can account for the fees.

They always add the fees. 

[sdcr]

What is the procedure to buy a used bike from a dealer in Pennsylvania and immediately taking it out of state for titling in another state?

Here in Ohio, if I sell a motor vehicle (motorcycles, too) I simply sign the title, fill out buyer's name and address and purchase price, hand him the title and the bike, and off he goes.

When I bought my VStrom in Indiana, the seller did the same and I took the bike home with the title and a bill of sale (my form from online). Ohio BMV inspected the bike, took the Indiana title, relieved me of sales tax on the purchase price and license plate transfer fees and handed me new stickers, a title and a pat on the back.

I called a dealer in Pennsylvania, we agreed on a price for a used bike in his stock (phone conversation) and he wants $464 documentation fee on top of our agreed price for the bike. Since I'm titling it out of state, there is no sales tax and no license (tags) fee. It is a cash sale. I will trailer it home. If PA's procedures are the same as Ohio and Indiana, he is padding the sale (my opinion).

Years ago, we bought a used car. When the dealer pulled the folder out I saw the title for the car was still in the previous owner's name - so they had invested nothing in the paperwork until the car sold (to me). That's when he transferred the title to me and my wife.

What do you know about the paperwork and procedures in PA?

I hope that this isn’t one of the very few Moto Guzzi dealers here in Pa.

[Perazzimx14]

Doc Fees are standard fluff fees at all dealerships, auto and moto.

It's best to ask what the fees are before you agree on a sales price, so you can account for the fees.

They always add the fees.

There are some legitimate fee when buying in state. The dealership cannot control title or registration fees but they do usually over charge for them. A title transfer fee in PA is something like $77. If you go to a dealer or notary you’ll pay $150+.

I’m fortunate and work 1mike from the main PennDot building. I do all my title and transfer work there and save hundreds vs having a local do it. Bonus is I walk out with the new title in my name in hand instead of waiting 10 to 14 days if it is mailed. 

[kingoffleece]

Should have been more clear.  Ask WHY the fees and take it from there.  If it's fluff one could negotiate.

[Kev m]

This is on the rare occasion I deal with a dealership I only entertain the OTD price not the price of the bike then the fee's then the tax then the....... On the even more rare instance I am trading a vehicle I don't care about the trade value. The dealer can give me 100X book value or give me one dollar for it, it's irrelevant.


I also don't care about the price they are asking the vehicle I'm interested in buying, interest rate, loan term or anything other than the OTD price as in the exact amount of money it takes to buy the vehicle. Once the dealer gives me the OTD number I can then decide to buy or walk.
.

Trade value shouldn't be irrelevant to you because it reduces the sales tax you pay. Every dollar of trade value is a dollar you don't pay tax on.

[rocker59]

There are some legitimate fee when buying in state. The dealership cannot control title or registration fees but they do usually over charge for them. A title transfer fee in PA is something like $77. If you go to a dealer or notary you’ll pay $150+.

I’m fortunate and work 1mike from the main PennDot building. I do all my title and transfer work there and save hundreds vs having a local do it. Bonus is I walk out with the new title in my name in hand instead of waiting 10 to 14 days if it is mailed.

Over the past few decades, I've had some direct knowledge of dealer fees while working in sales for a Lincoln-Mercury dealer, a Volkswagen dealer, a Guzzi/Triumph/Ducati dealer, and a Harley dealer.

 

[Perazzimx14]

Trade value shouldn't be irrelevant to you because it reduces the sales tax you pay. Every dollar of trade value is a dollar you don't pay tax on.

Again for me it's the OTD price I'm concerned with. I don't care how the dealers gets to it nor do I want to see the great deal they gave me. I just want the number in the lower right hand corner of the sales agreement.

My in-laws are the type that fall for the dealer that will give them 20% over book value on their trade but pay MSRP + whatever fee's they can drum up for the vehicle. They are also the type when the salesman asks what do you want you monthly payment to be, they answer. Amazingly the salesman can always come close and they only have to pay $40 or $60 more a month to get into that car of their dreams and afterall whats $60 more a month?? Then they get the financing straightened out and to get to the monthly payment they had to take a 72 or 84 month term loan but they got 20% more for their trade and the $300 tax credit and only pay $10,000 more for their new car over the term of the loan but they got 20% and saved $300 in tax credit so they are happy.

It's surprising how many people only care about the monthly payment and not the term or what actual costs are. These are a salesman's dream.

 

[Kev m]

Again for me it's the OTD price I'm concerned with. I don't care how the dealers gets to it nor do I want to see the great deal they gave me. I just want the number in the lower right hand corner of the sales agreement.

I get that, but I was separating the cost of buying and the cost of registering.

The dealer makes the same money whether they overvalue your trade or not.

You pay the state more if they don't.

[nbags]

you are absolutely wrong I live in Ohio it is against the law to jump a title in Ohio also the title must be filled out by seller with new owners name and be notarized. Notaries supposed to keep a record of every title they notarize. That is the law is there people out there that break it possible, also tax must be paid every time title change ownership .