Author Topic: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?  (Read 7643 times)

Offline Lannis

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 26507
  • Location: Central Virginia
Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« on: May 19, 2015, 02:47:22 PM »
A fellow list member who shall remain anonymous had expressed some well-considered doubts about the ability of a Norton MkIII 850 Commando Interstate to handle a 1000-mile two-up three-day weekend on the long highways, the mountains, and the beautiful roads of North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia, trouble-free.

Well, I’m here to tell you that this one here will do it, with one big person and one medium-small person aboard, as long as they have faith and the right attitudes ….




We were inspired by our fellow traveler “Semper Gumby”, who has ridden this A65 BSA coast-to-coast several times, done several SS-1000s, and who rides as hard and fast as anyone on a modern bike – and his wet-frame BSA (which normally carries an 8-gallon fuel cell to allow a 600-mile range) has never let him down in 50,000 miles of this kind of behavior –



So after a ride from Virginia to Blowing Rock, NC on Friday, off we went through the mountains of NC and TN …





“Trail Days” in Damascus, VA held us up a bit – 20,000 people in a town meant for 1200 or so …



But we were back on the road quick …


And of 30 old bikes on the ride, the first one that had to ride the sag wagon was a modern Triumph of all things …



Wouldn’t have been an Appalachian mountain ride if we hadn’t ridden under a downpour on the way in …



But the Commando never missed a beat, never needed adjustment, just tickle the Amals, stroke the button and ride.   Just like an 850T of the same year, minus the tickling.  

Have some mechanical sympathy, hold your mouth right, and these old nails will carry you a long way, fast and comfortable.    I’m just about converted!

Lannis
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 04:31:42 PM by Lannis »
"Hard pounding, this, gentlemen; let's see who pounds the longest".

Offline jackson

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1226
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2015, 03:22:25 PM »
Looks like a great trip!  You obviously keep on top of the maintenance and repairs and that stacks the odds in favor of a fun trip vs a miserable one with breakdowns.  Thumbs up!
NO longer can ride

Online balvenie

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2045
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2015, 05:38:44 PM »
Well Done ;-T
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Offline Arizona Wayne

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6257
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2015, 05:50:25 PM »
I stand corrected.  ???  My experience is riding w/Nortons back in the `70's and hearing other rider's stories. Racing against George Kerker in the late `60's. His 750 Norton was fast......if it lasted the race.  Did you guys have a backup trailer just in case?

If BSAs, Triumphs, Nortons were so reliable , why did they all go out of business back then?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 10:04:44 PM by Arizona Wayne »

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2015, 05:50:25 PM »

lucydad

  • Guest
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2015, 05:51:46 PM »
Nortons rule!  Very impressive....you are twice the man I am...and two up makes that 4X...

Love those roads.  Some day...

oldbike54

  • Guest
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2015, 05:54:47 PM »
Nortons rule!  Very impressive....you are twice the man I am...and two up makes that 4X...

Love those roads.  Some day...
[/quote

 So... does that make Fay 4X the woman as me  :o ;D

 Oh hell , good job Lannis  ;-T ;-T

  Dusty

Online tazio

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2730
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2015, 06:01:45 PM »
Mr.Lannis,
You would have made a hell of a spokesman for “The Unapproachable Norton”.
Instead, we got stuck with this..
Oh, never mind.. You know what I meant. :BEER: ;-T
Current Fleet
2015 Moto-Guzzi GRiSO
1972 Aermacchi Harley-Davidson 350 Sprint
1967 Kawasaki 650 W2TT
1966 Triumph Bonneville

Offline Jim Rich

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1655
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2015, 06:10:09 PM »
Good job! 

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 29445
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2015, 06:43:28 PM »
Attaboy..  ;D
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline nick949

  • All you have to do is decide what to do with the time that's given to you.
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3200
    • Nick Adams Writing
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2015, 07:07:55 PM »
Hey, old Guzzis can do it - why not Nortons?  Good for you Lannis ;-T

Nick

Penderic

  • Guest
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 07:50:55 PM »
Of course, there is the afterlife......

Offline trippah

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 995
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 09:07:28 PM »
Nortons -ahhhhh, good job Lannis.

canuck750

  • Guest
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2015, 10:12:57 PM »
Here is a very interesting storey of an 83 year old fellow in Vancouver Canada and the mileage he racks up and the trip he is planning with his 850 Norton Commando

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/83-year-old-plans-to-take-his-norton-on-10000-km-cross-continent-trip-95614.html

Like any old design, once sorted, with a few modern upgrades most vintage bikes can be trustworthy and certainly capable of long mileage rides.  There are quite a few nice 750 and 850 Commando's in our local chapter of Canadian Vintage Motorcycle Group. I have been offered a first year 750, early serial number bike, tempted, may go for it before the summer is up/

Cheers

Jim


Offline Arizona Wayne

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6257
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2015, 10:35:58 PM »
Here is a very interesting storey of an 83 year old fellow in Vancouver Canada and the mileage he racks up and the trip he is planning with his 850 Norton Commando

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/83-year-old-plans-to-take-his-norton-on-10000-km-cross-continent-trip-95614.html

Like any old design, once sorted, with a few modern upgrades most vintage bikes can be trustworthy and certainly capable of long mileage rides.  There are quite a few nice 750 and 850 Commando's in our local chapter of Canadian Vintage Motorcycle Group. I have been offered a first year 750, early serial number bike, tempted, may go for it before the summer is up/

Cheers

Jim






I'll say this, those older bikes are a lot lighter than the current bikes and many of them had an oil metering device built in to lube their chain.  ;-T  But most of them were kick start too.  Which is OK if you're young, but I ain't any more.  :-\

Online nc43bsa

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1353
  • Location: Mooresville NC
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2015, 11:34:36 PM »
I rode a MKII 850 Interstate 5500 miles from Raleigh to Durango (via Galveston & NOLA) and back (via Montrose, Tulsa, and Memphis) over three weeks back in the mid-80s.  Same color as yours, too.

The only problems I had were a F brake switch that quit working (I didn't know at the time I could have bought one at any import car parts store) and a leaking crank seal that required adding a pint of engine oil at the beginning of every day & draining out a pint of primary oil every evening.

It averaged 52mpg for the trip with a daily high of 56, IIRC.
1990 MilleGT

Offline PeteS

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3190
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2015, 05:55:36 AM »
Good for you Lannis. I am not surprised you and the bike could do this trip but I have to tip my hat to your passenger.  Thats a long time to spend in one place with little support.
My Nort has taken me on my first cross country trip in '72 and just about every Norton National from 1983 to 2003, never trailered.

Pete

Offline blackcat

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8854
  • Location: USA
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2015, 06:33:37 AM »
I have been offered a first year 750, early serial number bike, tempted, may go for it before the summer is up/

Cheers

Jim



I have one of those early models which isn't quite as refined as what Lannis owns.
1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline Guido Valvole

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1165
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2015, 01:43:15 PM »
@ Blackcat -- but the Fastback is much prettier.
cr
V50 II
V50 Monza
Le Mans 1000 (IV)
Martinez, CA

Offline rboe

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5086
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2015, 05:18:24 PM »
 :bow

But he only made because he used modern synthetic oils....... :BEER:
Phoenix, AZ
2000 Quota 1100 ES Black (sold & gone)
2008 Honda XR650L
2012 Griso SE
2013 Honda CB1100

Offline Mark West

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3840
  • Get Lost.... it's good for you!
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2015, 05:42:28 PM »
A former co-worker of mine got a write up in Cycle world in the early 90's in an article that was titled something like "Bikes that wouldn't die" At that time, his Norton Interstate had 151,000 miles on it. He kept riding that bike for many more years and I believe still has it. He used to say " I do the regular maintenance and ride it. If something breaks, I fix it. I'm not doing anything magical.
Mark West
Hollister, CA
MGNOC L-752

Offline Lannis

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 26507
  • Location: Central Virginia
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2015, 06:29:33 PM »
I have one of those early models which isn't quite as refined as what Lannis owns.


Among other things, "refined" actually means "faster".   The 850s had slowed down a bit from the early 750s, especially the "Combat" spec ones.   But that works for me .....

The "Ride it, maintain it, fix-it-when-it-breaks" philosophy could be used for any bike, if you like it well enough.   That's fairly easy for a Norton, which is very "modular" and old-fashioned - you can replace parts one at a time, you don't have to replace "systems" or $1800 electronic components.

Or you have situations like JB's Breva, where the transmission has goofed and so he's going to part it out.   If the Norton's transmission grenaded, you just pull it out and rebuild it with easily available parts, or swap a new one in.   You don't have to pull the whole ass end of the motorcycle apart to do it, either, so it makes it more appealing to do ...

Lannis
"Hard pounding, this, gentlemen; let's see who pounds the longest".

Offline blackcat

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8854
  • Location: USA
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2015, 07:42:39 AM »
Among other things, "refined" actually means "faster".   The 850s had slowed down a bit from the early 750s, especially the "Combat" spec ones.   But that works for me .....

The "Ride it, maintain it, fix-it-when-it-breaks" philosophy could be used for any bike, if you like it well enough.   That's fairly easy for a Norton, which is very "modular" and old-fashioned - you can replace parts one at a time, you don't have to replace "systems" or $1800 electronic components.

Or you have situations like JB's Breva, where the transmission has goofed and so he's going to part it out.   If the Norton's transmission grenaded, you just pull it out and rebuild it with easily available parts, or swap a new one in.   You don't have to pull the whole ass end of the motorcycle apart to do it, either, so it makes it more appealing to do ...

Lannis

The one thing they fixed on your bike is the volume of bolts on the primary cover. Mine has one in the center and most of those covers are warped from too much torque on the bolt which makes it impossible to keep them from leaking so you have to go to a belt drive system unless you like a messy,oily rear tire,etc.,etc. Then there is the piece of felt which is used between the transmission and primary to keep these two from leaking oil and it doesn't work. I don't know what they did to your bike to fix that problem.

Also, the early bikes like mine had cracking frames at the headstock making for some unhealthy rides. I purchased a later model frame to utilize for what the factory did in 1969, which was some additional bracing.

Yes, the later bikes are slower but they are a better bike.

1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline johnr

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4343
  • Location: Invercargill NZ
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2015, 08:54:04 AM »

If BSAs, Triumphs, Nortons were so reliable , why did they all go out of business back then?

That's easy. It was board room stuff that sent them down the river. Nothing wrong with the bikes themselves.
New Zealand
2002 Ev tourer (Stalled again...)

Offline Lannis

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 26507
  • Location: Central Virginia
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2015, 09:04:13 AM »
That's easy. It was board room stuff that sent them down the river. Nothing wrong with the bikes themselves.

There's a whole series of books and information on the demise of the British motorcycle industry .... My summarization:

1) The BSA, Triumph, and Norton bikes were all 1930s designs, all being beefed up from 500cc to 750 or 850cc with not-so-good results.    There's no way those old designs could compete with things like the Kaw Z1 or the CB-750 or the RD Yammies.

2) The Brits just couldn't believe that those little Orientals with thick glasses could POSSIBLY compete with the Empire, ever.   So they continued to try to use the worn-out WWII-era tooling to make 40-year-old designs, not invest in infrastructure and new designs, and just trust that people would remember the past and continue to buy them.

3) BSA was one of the largest, most successful industrial conglomerates in the world in the 1950s.   But several years of stock-price manipulation and mismanagement in the early 1970s put them completely under within a year.

4) The unions wanted ... more.   Didn't matter what they got, they wanted "more".   They wouldn't see the writing on the wall and try to help keep their OWN jobs, so they went under with the companies.

If you're stuck in the 1960s like I am, the Brit twins are decent bikes.   You just have to be mechanically sympathetic when riding them, and not wind them up to redline and power-shift every time you take off.   And they'll do fine.

Lannis
"Hard pounding, this, gentlemen; let's see who pounds the longest".

Online Muzz

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 7055
  • On the backside of the planet.
  • Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2015, 04:21:02 PM »
Lannis, I hope your "Doubting Muzztapha" was not directed at ME!!!! :o

I would LURVE a red 650SS. ;-T

As a note, the fastbacks out here came with an upswept peashooter muffler which whistled as you came off the throttle,  hence giving them the knickname "whistler".

EDIT  Oh gosh o jolly heck Lannis.  I missed out the word "NOT". I do indeed like Nortons, any Norton.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 10:33:27 PM by Muzz »
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
03 Breva

Life is just a bowl of Allbran
Ya wake up in the morning and it's there

Offline Lannis

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 26507
  • Location: Central Virginia
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2015, 04:28:05 PM »
Lannis, I hope your "Doubting Muzztapha" was directed at ME!!!! :o

I would LURVE a red 650SS. ;-T

As a note, the fastbacks out here came with an upswept peashooter muffler which whistled as you came off the throttle,  hence giving them the knickname "whistler".

Well, there were one of two folks who seemed a bit pessimistic that this trip would work out .... !  No names or even initials were mentioned ....

If I didn't have an Isolastic equipped Commando, I'd have to go back to a 500cc to find a Norton I liked.   I'm fairly tolerant of vibration but I do have my limits ..... !

Lannis
"Hard pounding, this, gentlemen; let's see who pounds the longest".

Offline brenwin

  • Easy does it .
  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Location: West coast
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2015, 04:33:53 PM »
A fellow list member who shall remain anonymous had expressed some well-considered doubts about the ability of a Norton MkIII 850 Commando Interstate to handle a 1000-mile two-up three-day weekend on the long highways, the mountains, and the beautiful roads of North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia, trouble-free.

Well, I’m here to tell you that this one here will do it, with one big person and one medium-small person aboard, as long as they have faith and the right attitudes ….





Glad you said " just about converted " Unfortunately I never had this experience on my Norton ! Can you spell JEALOUS  :drool
We were inspired by our fellow traveler “Semper Gumby”, who has ridden this A65 BSA coast-to-coast several times, done several SS-1000s, and who rides as hard and fast as anyone on a modern bike – and his wet-frame BSA (which normally carries an 8-gallon fuel cell to allow a 600-mile range) has never let him down in 50,000 miles of this kind of behavior –



So after a ride from Virginia to Blowing Rock, NC on Friday, off we went through the mountains of NC and TN …





“Trail Days” in Damascus, VA held us up a bit – 20,000 people in a town meant for 1200 or so …



But we were back on the road quick …


And of 30 old bikes on the ride, the first one that had to ride the sag wagon was a modern Triumph of all things …



Wouldn’t have been an Appalachian mountain ride if we hadn’t ridden under a downpour on the way in …



But the Commando never missed a beat, never needed adjustment, just tickle the Amals, stroke the button and ride.   Just like an 850T of the same year, minus the tickling.  

Have some mechanical sympathy, hold your mouth right, and these old nails will carry you a long way, fast and comfortable.    I’m just about converted!

Lannis

2015 Griso 1200SE
2004 V11 Ballabio (red)
1973 Eldorado

Offline brenwin

  • Easy does it .
  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Location: West coast
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2015, 04:43:38 PM »
Something messed up on my last post , don't know where it went or what happened but here it is again .
Anyway , I never experienced this on my Norton and just a little jealous to say the least .  :drool
2015 Griso 1200SE
2004 V11 Ballabio (red)
1973 Eldorado

Offline blackcat

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8854
  • Location: USA
Re: Well, how about that, Mr. Doubting Mustapha?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2015, 05:01:46 PM »

As a note, the fastbacks out here came with an upswept peashooter muffler which whistled as you came off the throttle,  hence giving them the knickname "whistler".

I believe that the late 69 or 70 Fastback's over here had the peashooter mufflers.
1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here