The Downside to owning Several Bikes.

[earemike]

Going from new to old the brakes have nearly caught me out before but when it comes time to mix shift patterns I'm going to struggle.

Hats off to you for generally doing it well! Glad you're OK.

[tazio]

Then a friend calls yesterday and says "Hey, retired guy, let's go for a ride."   So I get out the Stelvio, take off the luggage, strap a rain suit to the rack, and off we go for a brisk ride on the back roads.

Lannis

Some of your mishap(glad you are o.k., Mr. Lannis) may be contained in this sentence of yours..

Easy to get caught up in the moment, briskly riding with friends.
You brought a rainsuit, so I presume passing through damp/wet roads (or scootin' along to beat the rain? :BEER:)
And back roads can demand your attention on several fronts at once, braking, shifting, weight transfer etc...
Personally, I think the Stelvio was pissed at you over the Norton ride..

 

[Hugh Straub]

Everybody who has passed through a number of bikes has had the experience of trying the shift with the brake pedal.(in my case I went from a BMW to a right shift BSA to a Velocette - one up and three down - to a Suzuki).

 More importantly though, I find every bike has its own long learning curve even with government standardized controls.  For that reason, I am no longer interested when a friend on a ride offers to switch bikes.  I don't think I can really evaluate a strange to me bike in the thirty or so miles I might take it, not to mention taking on the risk of an unfamiliar bike with an uncertain maintenance history.  Similarly, when test riding a potential used bike purchase,  I really am only interested in confirming all the gears work.  Truly determining whether the used bike is worth the money doesn't come from a spin around the block on a strange machine. That determination only comes long after the purchase was made.

Kind regards

[Nic in Western NYS]

Relieved you're ok Lannis.

[lucydad]

Lannis,

Lots of great comments.  Same experience between V7R and Triumph STRX.  Braking is radically different, so is throttle.

One of my strategies:  stick with one bike over a typical weekend of riding.  Also really focus on adapting brake grip (strong on Guzzi,  finesse on Trumpet).

Glad you are ok!  Overall having a second bike has made me a better rider though. 

[azccj]

Try going from always riding a bike, to riding a scooter for the first time, which has the rear brake where the clutch handle is. Talk about a WTF moment the first time I came up to a red light and locked up the rear brake out of habit of always using a clutch ::).

Nowadays I don't even think about it and my brain instantly goes from scooter mode to bike mode as soon as I hop on whichever seat.

[Rich A]

At one time I had an Eldo with the "normal" shift pattern and an Ambo with the reverse pattern. That made for some interesting shifts.

Rich A

[canuck750]

I can relate to your post, on the weekend I rode my KLR 650, then on Sunday the Eldorado and this evening I was on my right hand shift V7 Sport, I find the right hand shift requires continuous concentration, I keep shifting the brake lever and stopping with the shifter. The most 'comfortable' of my riders is the Eldorado, the KLR the easiest to ride and the V7 Sport the most invigorating.

Most boring and lifeless bike I own .... my BMW, dependable, 10 hour comfort and just dull.

[Arizona Wayne]

For awhile now I've been mainly riding maxi-scooters.  Today I picked up my fixed 750 Breva and the wife followed me home.  We started in the middle of Prescott, Az., which is a touristy town with more traffic than I like.  :D  Wife said she could tell immediately I was awkward in my riding going from a twist & go scooter that also happens to turn more than any MC.  Not to mention not having to deal with a clutch from start to changing gears for months, on hilly, congested roads.  ~;  At the end of my 123 mile return home I was pretty much back in synch. with riding a MC again, but at first it was iffy and she could tell.  ;D

[Arizona Wayne]

Try going from always riding a bike, to riding a scooter for the first time, which has the rear brake where the clutch handle is. Talk about a WTF moment the first time I came up to a red light and locked up the rear brake out of habit of always using a clutch ::).

Nowadays I don't even think about it and my brain instantly goes from scooter mode to bike mode as soon as I hop on whichever seat.

The 1st time I rode an Aprilia 500 GT scooter in a demo ride, at slow speed  I almost went over the handlebar grabbing both hand levers!!!  :o  Definitely time to relearn what riding is all about.  :D 
Few years later I adapted and got my 1st scooter, an Aprilia Scarabeo 500GT, which I still have.  ;D

[krglorioso]

Lannis: Help is on the way from California.  For $2000 I'll get that troublesome Norton out of your hair and you'll have no more Stelvio mishaps.

My '74 Commando Interstate needs a kindred spirit to lounge about with.  Problems solved.

Your friend,

Ralph

[SED]

Glad you're OK!  I've experienced similar confusion, but fortunately have not dropped anything - yet.

I've confused the brake and shifter so many times that I sometimes hesitate.  I learned to ride on a BSA 441 with 1 down, 3 up on the right and 20 years later switched to an Enfield Bullet and Ariels that are 1 up, 3 down.  When the Enfield and Ariel was new to me I would sometimes shift in the BSA mode, but braking was never a problem.

Until the Guzzi the only left shift bikes I'd ridden were a few miles on friends bikes (first time I was toeing up on the brake trying to make it shift...), but then I got the LeMans and had to learn left foot shifting for real.  It was so alien to me that I would occasionally shift up coming to a stop and find myself in the wrong gear.  I had the right hand - left foot brake pattern so engrained I was asking for advice from those with more modern bikes.

Two things helped - mostly I don't try to ride too fast where there are lots of stops and starts.  And the Burman 'boxes in the Ariels require a slow foot, so slowly pressing down on the linked Guzzi brakes gives plenty of warning.  Linked brakes also mean the single front disk is not going throw me over the bars.  I love linked brakes because they work well and give a margin of safety.

The worst part is accidentally toeing the Guzzi shifter as if it were an Ariel rear brake and dropping down a gear - ugh! Fortunately I have only Guzzis and Ariels so nothing else to learn!

If I ride the Ariels consistently, most mistakes are made on the Guzzis.  The reverse is true when mostly riding the Guzzis.  As I seem to be riding the Guzzis more frequently it seems my muscle memory is improving so that I'm making fewer mistakes on both types of bikes.  Like someone said above, it helps that riding position is so different between the two makes. 

Weirdly I have the same problem on my bicycles - mostly the mtn bike where downhill on fast and loose twisting surfaces requires really good brake modulation to keep from throwing yourself down the trail.  It's where I do most of my emergency braking on two wheels.  The momentary confusion as to which hand is controlling the skid on the front is frightening.  Control is so dependent on timing and muscle memory that I've considered changing the arrangement on my mtn bike to match the motorcycles - but have -almost- decided it would be TOO similar to the motorcycles to be safe.  (Right hand modulates front brake on motorcycles, left hand on bicycles.)  I've got so many hours on bicycles it would probably be worse.  This thread has me thinking I should try it though...

 And I too want to know what happened to the JPL Norton.

[not-fishing]

The old saying about not being fearful of a guy with several guns but fear the guy with just one applies to motorcycle also.

I've been a competitive shooter for many decades and while I've heard that old adage I know it is wrong.

You learn different things from different guns.  The real problem is to "code switch" to the gun you are using.

Spend a little time mastering revolvers and you learn to make your shots count.

Spend a little time mastering semi auto handguns and you learn to have real speed.

Spend a little time mastering rifles and you learn how to shoot distance.

Spend a little time mastering shotguns and you learn to shoot on instinct.

A rifleman while good with a rifle does not shoot with instinct and generally has poor pistol skills.

A pistol shooter while being good with a pistol has a problem with real distances where wind and bullet drop is a consideration.

The real problem has always been the "code switching" between the various firearms and not a matter of ability.

One of the things that competitive shooters know is the individual that masters rifle, shotgun and pistol is a very, very rare individual.

Mark in Folsom  who tore a tendon in his right arm and is now drawing and shooting with his weak left hand

[Nic in Western NYS]

This was always one of my objections AGAINST ABS brakes, which perhaps I've come full circle now to embrace as an argument FOR ABS brakes.

I used to argue that owning a number of bikes, I didn't want just ONE of them to have ABS because I didn't want to pick up a bad habit of just hauling down on the ABS bike and letting the system do the work, then accidentally doing the same on a non-ABS unit.

But having ABS on a few bikes over the past 2 decades has taught me that I CAN treat the ABS bike just like everything else and HOPEFULLY not activate it, but that doesn't mean it's not still there just in case I need do.

So now I'm thinking if it's available on a bike I want, perhaps I should always get it.

I'm with Kev M on this regarding being wary of the jump between ABS and non-ABS rides.  I'd say though that the reason I think it's a big problem is that the approach to full-on braking is somewhat different depending on ABS.  You certainly can treat it the way you would a non-ABS braking system, but you could decide to put your faith in the system and not gradually apply increasing pressure which is then modulated on the brake lever under hard stopping conditions, instead relying on the ABS system to prevent lock-up rather than the modulation.   Since I think the braking approach is different, you do NOT want to be consciously thinking about anything that should be automatic in a situation which might induce panic.  You want all of the 'attention pie' going to necessary processes (e.g., finding the correct path through the obstacles, etc.), not "hmmm, was this an ABS bike or not???...."

[Kev m]

I'm with Kev M on this regarding being wary of the jump between ABS and non-ABS rides.  I'd say though that the reason I think it's a big problem is that the approach to full-on braking is somewhat different depending on ABS.  You certainly can treat it the way you would a non-ABS braking system, but you could decide to put your faith in the system and not gradually apply increasing pressure which is then modulated on the brake lever under hard stopping conditions, instead relying on the ABS system to prevent lock-up rather than the modulation.   Since I think the braking approach is different, you do NOT want to be consciously thinking about anything that should be automatic in a situation which might induce panic.  You want all of the 'attention pie' going to necessary processes (e.g., finding the correct path through the obstacles, etc.), not "hmmm, was this an ABS bike or not???...."

Yeah, so I've come to systematically treat all bike brake systems as non ABS. doing my best to modulate them by feel (but still knowing in the back of my head there's a little safety margin on that modulation when I'm on an ABS equipped bike).

Hey, at least it's not like the difference in cars back when we were taught to pump the brakes.

[Furbo]

Sorry to hear about your mishap. However, a very interesting and relevant topic. You seem to write quite well and have the tenacity to be expressive. I suggest you write an article on this topic (now that you're retired) and submit it to one of the motorcycle rags. I think it would be great in MCN perhaps as a letter to the editor type of story. Or The MGNOC news letter.

Sam

that's a great idea.  And:

I empathize with your plight. At one time I had.....

76 Laverda - 1 dn 4 up - RH Shift

84 Cal II - Toe dn, Heel up - LH Shift

72 850GT - 1 up 4dn - RH shift

76 H2 - 5 up - LH Shift

[SPEIRMOOR]

I have experienced this too at times and find the need to remind myself that the newer bikes have so much more braking power than the older ones. Jumping from the Norton to the Ducati one time I locked up the front wheel when I needed to stop suddenly in traffic. While sliding,my brain (grey matter?) kicked in to release the brake lever and take control with the rear brake. Kind scary and cool at the same time but it was a wake up call.

[lucydad]

My hands have calibration dials. 

I find cornering differences between the V7R and Trumpet to be a challenge.  Very, very different.  Tires and suspension and geometry contribute I am sure.

Fueling response is part of the game.