Author Topic: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)  (Read 766 times)

Online willowstreetguzziguy

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Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« on: December 02, 2022, 06:04:27 PM »
We are renovating our kitchen and we went looking for a new refrigerator. We bought our Amana side by side in 1995 and itís still going strong. Thought it might be time to replace it and move it to the garage in favor of an ďupdatedĒ model. Come to find that hat the salespeople admit that the life expectancy of new ones is about 10 years!

And then when you watch YouTube videos of the unfortunate people with 0 -5 year old models and all the trouble they are having! After 5 years, parts arenít available and it gets sent to the dump?!

Something needs to be done to help the consumerÖ

Thankfully my 08. 1200 Sport isnít a problem but when I have 2 examples of things that dint lastÖ.

Bought a corded drill back in 2005 when I started my business of faux finishing where I sometimes have to drill/mix dense and heavy material in a 5 gallon bucket to go to jobs. Well ten years ago I thought it might be wise to have a backup drill just in case my main one dies late in the night when mixing product for the next day. So I go to my local Kmart and buy another Black & Decker corded drill. I decided to use that to mix up the material that evening. Well it wasnít more than about five minutes of heavy duty mixing that the new drill started smelling and smoking and burning up! I took it back and got my money back and ever since Iíve been using the 2005 corded drill, Black & Decker, amazing!

Another example is a device that I use to clean my paint brushes where I pump it and twirls and spins the wetness from the brush. Once again, I thought it might be good to have a back up just in case my 1975 model gave out. I bought a new one and it lasted a week before it jammed!
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Online nc43bsa

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2022, 06:18:17 PM »
In my mom's house there are the original Frigidaire fridge/freezer that was installed in 1964, the RCA/Whirlpool freezer that was purchased in ~1960 (and is 6 feet tall!), and the Kelvinator fridge/freezer that was built in 1950.  All of them work and are still in use, and I'd bet that the total spent repairing all of them is under $1000.

And the parts are still available, albeit sometimes not locally.  For example, I replaced a noisy evaporator fan in the Frigidaire last year;  the part was around $85.  I replaced the freezer fan in the same fridge 10 years ago;  it was the same part number!

I'd much rather pay the electric bill for an "obsolete" appliance that just keeps on working than buy a new energy-efficient one for $2500 that I know I'll need to replace again in less than 10 years.
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Offline steven c

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2022, 06:24:23 PM »
 Seems like everything thing is built to a price these days. I had our 35 year old gas furnace check out well because it's 35 years old, my plumber said it's fine and they don't make them like that anymore, a new one would be more efficient but the pay back wouldn't be worth it,plus they are not as reliable.
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Offline bad Chad

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2022, 06:35:29 PM »
A bit like the human condition, you get about 80 years, if all goes well, and then motor goes south.
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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2022, 06:35:29 PM »

Offline RinkRat II

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2022, 07:53:14 PM »

   Timely topic, I put up my Christmas lights, hooked up the outdoor timer, set it for on/off operation only to find out at dark 30 nothing happened. Troubleshot to find the timers, kaput. Only ten years old no biggie. Took it all apart and found the clock motor bad. Looked online and found several Intermatic motors only $23.00 free shipping. New timer, exact model $8.99!! What's wrong with this picture???  Planned Obsolescence.

     Paul B :boozing:
A Miller in the hand is worth two in the fridge.

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2022, 03:01:36 AM »
My buddy has his mothers old International Harvester fridge at least 60YO in his garage to keep his beverages cold.
I have an old Sears 12 Volt battery drill with a pair of wires and alligator clips I use off a m/c battery, its handy when i'm working somewhere without power available
the original battery only lasted a couple of years.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 03:03:01 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline blackcat

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2022, 06:35:51 AM »
Black + Decker owns Porter Cable and Dewalt. Their B+D tools are made for the occasional home worker and for what you are describing Iíd look to Porter Cable for a better drill to mix paint,etc. Personally I own a Milwaukee corded drill for heavy mixing work and itís only about 20 years old, never been rebuilt but it needs a new cord, but it can get pretty hot when mixing lots of thin-set for tile.  Hilti also makes corded drills for a reasonable ($140) amount of money.
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Offline mechanicsavant

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2022, 08:18:08 AM »
Long ago & far away in a distant world , Volvo almost put themselves out of business building a car that rarely broke . Remember the 122 series ? About the same era the postage meter company Pitney Bowes made a postage meter with a long lifetime. It was replaced with a machine that required a ďservice contractĒ . They were offering more than the cost of the old machine to trade it in on the ďimproved modelĒ. Same with appliances for the home .When I met my wife & we moved in together we used her old Kelvinator fridge . Worked great but was avocado colored , remember that era ? Newer appliances are only designed with a 5 Yr. Lifespan approximately, according to a neighbor who services them for a living ! Ya donít want to be competing against your old product do ya? Welcome to the slow motion apocalypse

Offline RinkRat II

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2022, 09:32:08 AM »



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     My late 40's Frigidaire racing fridge. Still keeps my beer 41degrees F . Had to replace the cord last year.

      Paul B :boozing:
A Miller in the hand is worth two in the fridge.

Online willowstreetguzziguy

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2022, 10:02:16 AM »
I think in addition to planned obsolescence, itís also pure greed and what it comes down to in the end is sales numbers. Let me explain.

I think the appliance industry and the automotive industry run parallel in many ways. Theyíve both of course want to sell as many products in a year as possible and they also want to beatvthe competition. They donít do that by bragging about durability and longevity but by putting as many bells and whistles on their products as possible to attract and dazzle customers and get them to buy their  product. Many times, the bells and whistles are a major  part of the product and are often new and unproven.

 BMW over the course of the last five years has made their SUVs in series X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6 and now X7.  When a vehicle or an appliance gets to be in need of repair, 10+ years later, how in the world are these companies going to be able to keep an inventory of repair parts and in stock for that many different models,Ö Itís impossible. And then add the ďDigital DisplayĒ parts that cost thousands of dollars to replace (if theyíre even available!) ď Itís too costly to repair so just buy a new one quote is there thank you and hope.

So thatís the sad reality that we live in today. Mani Guzzi riders like to keep their products going for many many many years. People complain about the environment being polluted but very little thought is given to appliances that are thrown in landfills after only 15 years of use if that.

When you look at the expensive German car companies and the models they introduce, the labor rate soaring well above $100 per hour,  and the parts expense, it is hard to conceive of maintaining a vehicle once it leaves its warranty. My saying that I have adopted is Öyou donít want to be paying monthly payments AND repair bills at the same time. Thatís why vehicle companies offer extended warranties on a used vehicles because they know owners canít afford monthly payments AND repair bills at the same time. Thatís the way I see it. Hopefully Moto Guzzi hasnít followed that route.
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Offline AH Fan

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2022, 10:20:51 AM »
I think in addition to planned obsolescence, itís also pure greed and what it comes down to in the end is sales numbers. Let me explain.

I think the appliance industry and the automotive industry run parallel in many ways. Theyíve both of course want to sell as many products in a year as possible and they also want to beatvthe competition. They donít do that by bragging about durability and longevity but by putting as many bells and whistles on their products as possible to attract and dazzle customers and get them to buy their  product. Many times, the bells and whistles are a major  part of the product and are often new and unproven.

 BMW over the course of the last five years has made their SUVs in series X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6 and now X7.  When a vehicle or an appliance gets to be in need of repair, 10+ years later, how in the world are these companies going to be able to keep an inventory of repair parts and in stock for that many different models,Ö Itís impossible. And then add the ďDigital DisplayĒ parts that cost thousands of dollars to replace (if theyíre even available!) ď Itís too costly to repair so just buy a new one quote is there thank you and hope.

So thatís the sad reality that we live in today. Mani Guzzi riders like to keep their products going for many many many years. People complain about the environment being polluted but very little thought is given to appliances that are thrown in landfills after only 15 years of use if that.

When you look at the expensive German car companies and the models they introduce, the labor rate soaring well above $100 per hour,  and the parts expense, it is hard to conceive of maintaining a vehicle once it leaves its warranty. My saying that I have adopted is Öyou donít want to be paying monthly payments AND repair bills at the same time. Thatís why vehicle companies offer extended warranties on a used vehicles because they know owners canít afford monthly payments AND repair bills at the same time. Thatís the way I see it. Hopefully Moto Guzzi hasnít followed that route.



Your seeing things quite clearly in my opinion.

That's why I enjoy owning and riding older Guzzis      :cool:

Ciao

Online willowstreetguzziguy

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2022, 11:28:30 AM »
If truth be told, I donít think most consumers care anymore if things last. Most like to have the latest and greatest things in order to brag and show off to their neighbors and friends. Having some thing that is 15, 20, 30 years old itís not cool anymore.

More and more it seems like we live in a society where people no longer have maturity but act like high school kids because itís so ďcoolĒ. Just look around. They act like theyíre still in high school.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 11:53:16 AM by willowstreetguzziguy »
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Offline sdcr

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2022, 11:43:03 AM »
I think in addition to planned obsolescence, itís also pure greed and what it comes down to in the end is sales numbers. Let me explain.

I think the appliance industry and the automotive industry run parallel in many ways. Theyíve both of course want to sell as many products in a year as possible and they also want to beatvthe competition. They donít do that by bragging about durability and longevity but by putting as many bells and whistles on their products as possible to attract and dazzle customers and get them to buy their  product. Many times, the bells and whistles are a major  part of the product and are often new and unproven.

 BMW over the course of the last five years has made their SUVs in series X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6 and now X7.  When a vehicle or an appliance gets to be in need of repair, 10+ years later, how in the world are these companies going to be able to keep an inventory of repair parts and in stock for that many different models,Ö Itís impossible. And then add the ďDigital DisplayĒ parts that cost thousands of dollars to replace (if theyíre even available!) ď Itís too costly to repair so just buy a new one quote is there thank you and hope.

So thatís the sad reality that we live in today. Mani Guzzi riders like to keep their products going for many many many years. People complain about the environment being polluted but very little thought is given to appliances that are thrown in landfills after only 15 years of use if that.

When you look at the expensive German car companies and the models they introduce, the labor rate soaring well above $100 per hour,  and the parts expense, it is hard to conceive of maintaining a vehicle once it leaves its warranty. My saying that I have adopted is Öyou donít want to be paying monthly payments AND repair bills at the same time. Thatís why vehicle companies offer extended warranties on a used vehicles because they know owners canít afford monthly payments AND repair bills at the same time. Thatís the way I see it. Hopefully Moto Guzzi hasnít followed that route.

Pretty fair assessment of todayís industrial world. One more reason to hoard those old Moto Guzziís, BMW airheads and any  infinitely rebuildable and cherished possessions.
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Online John Croucher

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2022, 01:02:20 PM »
I own a coin operated laundry.  The smaller top loaders and front loaders are the same as residential machines.  They have a duty cycle of 15,000 uses rating.  I have units that have exceeded that by replacing parts that I purchase used off ebay.  I have one New unit that the transmission seal went out, washed the grease out of the bearing.  The Tech's said salvage the parts and trash it.  Too expensive to replace the transmission. 

 Washers and dryers and many other appliances have been redesigned for energy and water savings.  The days of a simple water valve and mechanical timers are over.  There are computer boards that sense the load weight, water level, stepper motors, humidity sensors and thermometers in the units to reduce operating cost.  The problem is, the cost to replace the computers far exceeds the energy savings. 

When the number of units around the world are totaled up, a little water, electricity or gas savings is massive.

With the new high efficiency washers, it is a waste to use the hot water setting.  Very little hot water is added on the wash cycle and is immediately cooled down when it is added and then mixed with the clothing.  Wasting electricity and gas to heat the water.  A residential top loader uses 18 gallons empty and a front loader uses 12 or less empty.  Overloading a washer only gets your clothes wet and does not rinse the soap out. Making your skin itch later.  Follow the recommended amount of soap for the type of machine.  Or less. 

If you over soap a washer, fabric softener will break down the suds immediately.   Run the clothes through another cycle with no soap. 

For the fun of it, throw the clothes in the washer, do not add soap and you will see suds form from the residuals left from the previous wash.

Clean Your clothes dryer regularly.  Remove the back and the vent panels.  The filter screen does not capture all the lint and it will accumulate in the vent system.  Reducing air flow and use more energy.  And it is extremely flammable.  A butane lighter left in a pocket will burn down a house when it explodes. 

And I have a 30 y.o. refrigerator that is going strong.  A GE flat top stove with a partially burnt out burner.  Wife said fix it or She is buying a new one.  Guess it will be working on a stove.

Google is your friend when it comes to appliance repairs and repair parts.  I have never had a repair tech in my laundry in 22 years.  My tool cart is very limited to a couple of socket bits, 1/4 driver, needle nose pliers, multi meter, screw drivers, jumper wire.   

Online Enzo Toma

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2022, 04:11:06 PM »
I do a lot of appliance repair and for washing machines, fabric softener is usually very destructive. I would recommend against ever using it. Distilled white vinegar is a safe alternative. Both washers and dryers require regular disassembly and cleaning as regular preventative maintenance to prevent parts from failing.

Most libraries have a subscription to Consumer Reports and a way for you to access it for "free" (you and your neighbors paid for it in taxes) online from your home using your library card. It's a good way to compare appliances. They are scored on reliability among other things, but unfortunately not scored on repairability. A modern refrigerator can and often will pay for itself, within its lifetime, in electricity savings when compared to a mid 90s refrigerator. That doesn't mean it's a more environmentally friendly solution, just that it can cost less to a consumer. Steer clear of "smart" appliances if you're looking for anything that will last. Not only is parts availability for them short lived, but so are software updates. They become a cybersecurity risk when they're outdated and connected to the internet.

Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2022, 05:02:26 PM »
A bit like the human condition, you get about 80 years, if all goes well, and then motor goes south.

You beat me to it BC.  My right hip only lasted about 50 years.  My brain, less than 40!

The flip side of the coin is not enough consumers are willing to pay for longevity to make the manufacturing feasible.

Next time one of your faucets goes out, replace it with a couple of industrial ball valves that will last forever.

Also as manufactured products get less expensive to produce, the labor to repair costs more than replacement.

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Offline BobtheBuilder

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2022, 05:04:51 PM »

Offline PeteS

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2022, 05:18:08 PM »
My buddy has his mothers old International Harvester fridge at least 60YO in his garage to keep his beverages cold.
I have an old Sears 12 Volt battery drill with a pair of wires and alligator clips I use off a m/c battery, its handy when i'm working somewhere without power available
the original battery only lasted a couple of years.

Same here with my 12v Milwaukee drill. Now wired to my Norton battery. Not sure about fabric softeners wreaking washers. Our Maytag washer went 48 years, could have fixed it with a NOS part on ebay. The matching dryer went 50 years. Only had to replace a belt a few tines and the heating coil after loose change shorted it out. Computers and processor chips are the worst offenders. Microsoft and Apple constant OS changes obsoleting applications. My 8 year old iPad now only useful as a camera.
Sears water heater now going on 30 years. Backup sits next to it just in case but in no rush to replace it as new ones are only good for 5 years.

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Offline sidecarnutz

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Re: Some Things Donít Last (Planned Obsolence)
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2022, 06:02:23 PM »
In my mom's house there are the original Frigidaire fridge/freezer that was installed in 1964, the RCA/Whirlpool freezer that was purchased in ~1960 (and is 6 feet tall!), and the Kelvinator fridge/freezer that was built in 1950.  All of them work and are still in use, and I'd bet that the total spent repairing all of them is under $1000.

And the parts are still available, albeit sometimes not locally.  For example, I replaced a noisy evaporator fan in the Frigidaire last year;  the part was around $85.  I replaced the freezer fan in the same fridge 10 years ago;  it was the same part number!

I'd much rather pay the electric bill for an "obsolete" appliance that just keeps on working than buy a new energy-efficient one for $2500 that I know I'll need to replace again in less than 10 years.

Agreed!
I hate it when they excuse the lousy new stuff by telling us how much more efficient it is!
In dust to dust comparisons of building something from mining to refining to manufacture and eventually back to dust, many old products outperform new ones. Like comparing a Huge Chevy Yukon SUV to a Toyota Prius. Guess which one did less environmental damage in its life AND lasted longer? The Chevy.
Our leaders have us chasing false economy IMO.
I am still using a B&D corded hammer drill I bought back in the late 80's. Had to replace a dry rotted cord some years back. But it still works perfectly. USA made too.
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