Author Topic: 1978 Le Mans restoration  (Read 5110 times)

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2021, 01:38:31 PM »
I had an interesting call with Kevin from Etak-Nivek Products from ON Canada this morning. He's a Maxton dealer and has successfully installed a SD20 cartridge in a MG fork. Turns out it's very difficult due to the poor tolerances of the components when they were manufactured. Fork leg holes are not perfectly round and the tubes are not perfectly straight which impedes an already tight fit that can cause the oil to cavitate. He'll only agree to attempt it after he has my components in hand and can measure them to see if its possible. He's sending me a formal letter stating the options and cost ranges. May have to move on to plan B.  Honda RC36 cartridges... I'll research huub's solution on the forum.

Offline acguzzi

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2021, 02:11:04 PM »
Acguzzi what bike did you put the Maxtons on?
[/quote]

I put them on a mkII lemans

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2021, 08:46:27 AM »
what bike did you put the Maxtons on?
A 79 SP. He re-bore the legs slightly larger (35 vs 34.8) and perfectly round. And he had a problem with the press fit fork seals. Sounds like the problem is due to variances in the manufacturing process, some are better than others. Did you need to do any work to the fork legs? 

Offline acguzzi

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2021, 07:47:45 AM »
I'm not aware of any issues but maxton did the work and there were no signs of the tubes being modified or replaced.

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2021, 07:47:45 AM »

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2021, 04:47:28 PM »
Does anyone know if aircraft paint stripper is safe to remove paint from my Le Mans wheels?

Offline Canuck750

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2021, 08:00:20 PM »
Does anyone know if aircraft paint stripper is safe to remove paint from my Le Mans wheels?

Yes no problem to use on alloy wheels, look for aerosol can "Aircraft Paint Stripper" works great
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2021, 10:33:19 AM »
Yes no problem to use on alloy wheels, look for aerosol can "Aircraft Paint Stripper" works great
Thanks, that's what I thought. At this point the frame, wheels, and body work are at the powder coater and the painter, hoping there are no issues, looking forward to getting them back safely.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2021, 10:40:12 AM by 2WheelsUp »

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2021, 09:01:44 AM »
My painter is struggling to make progress on the wheels by brushing on aircraft paint stripper but my powder coater can chemically strip by dipping them. I left the hub in the rear wheel (the part that is pressed into wheel), will chemicals damage it?  I believe it's steel, maybe stainless.

On a related note, we were surprised to see the rough surface under factory coating. Any suggestions on how best to prepare this for either paint or powder?


Offline Canuck750

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2021, 09:17:49 AM »
I donít think you will have a problem dipping the whole wheel on the powder coat removal tank. The hub spacer is to my recollection steel, doubt it will be harmed. I pressed it out when I did my wheels but again not necessary.
You can have the wheels powder prime coated and sand out the imperfections, then powder prime again, repeat until the surface is ready for final colour coat

I used this powder primer process restoring my Airone frame parts. The powder primer sands easily, 200 grit is fine enough but you can start with 120.
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2022, 12:12:26 PM »
The wheels of progress are moving slowing. Got my frame and all the black bits back from powder coating.

Very nice job, color/finish is perfect, although they had to redo the fork legs because they covered about 15mm around the sides of the axle hole rather than just the hole for some reason. They did an amazing job on coating the carriers on my brake rotors ensuring not to get powder on the mating surfaces. I then sent them to Tom at TrueDisk do his magic, came back perfect, probably better than new. Here's the rear rotor

My painter had a hard time stripping my wheels so we ended up passing them to a friend of his that does power coating since he had a strip tank. No issues getting the finish off but when he coated them a tiny hole, sort of a pore, spewed something that created a red stain on the silver coating.

 My guess is outgassing, perhaps not baking the wheel after stripping it, but they believe it's a flaw in the wheel. He gave up after several attempts of fixing it. I've only seen the wheel in pictures at this point so I don't know how noticeable it is. The painter touched it up with liquid paint and believe it's not worth going after, we'll see once I pick it up later this week. If it's not acceptable, I guess I'll start over with the powder coater that did the frame.

Over the weekend my painter sent me a picture of the bottom of the gas tank. Behind the petcock bungs the seams of the tank have been bent over right at the point where the fuel tank rubber rests are.

Has anyone noticed this before?  I'm thinking it's either the rubber rests were not positioned correctly and the tank was riding on the frame rails or the factory does this to stop the tank from hitting the frame. If its the the former, next question is whether we attempt to bend it back without breaking the weld.



Offline Canuck750

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2022, 09:37:29 PM »
this is an original V7 Sport tank, the seams are slightly folded over aft of the fuel taps, I don't have any pictures of the underside of the other Sport / S / S3 or Lemans builds

48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2022, 12:38:53 AM »
Thanks for taking the time to post the picture Jim. Mine is folded over a bit more than that yours, looks like its intentional from the factory, perhaps to just to hide the seams a bit in a visible area. This picture shows what it looks like on the bike... seamless so to speak.


Another topic... I'm in the middle of rebuilding my calipers. I was on the fence since the brakes seemed ok during the few test rides before the tear down. Wow are they a mess, amazing they worked at all. A lot of crud and particles around the outer seals, some sludge looking stuff in the master cylinder, and pistons have surface rust, some pitting, will leave in EvapoRust overnight to see how they turn out, may need ones. I guess I should powder coat them now that there are apart.  Thankful I did it now rather than later when the bike is back together.

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2022, 08:53:54 AM »
Another topic... I'm in the middle of rebuilding my calipers. I was on the fence since the brakes seemed ok during the few test rides before the tear down. Wow are they a mess, amazing they worked at all. A lot of crud and particles around the outer seals, some sludge looking stuff in the master cylinder, and pistons have surface rust, some pitting, will leave in EvapoRust overnight to see how they turn out, may need ones. I guess I should powder coat them now that there are apart.  Thankful I did it now rather than later when the bike is back together.

I'd recommend replacing the pistons with anodized aluminum ones, what Brembo used on the single bleeder calipers.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_350&products_id=743
Charlie

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2022, 09:46:35 AM »
Thanks Charlie, your right, would be best to just replace the pistons. The surface rust is gone now but the pitting is still there.

Offline Canuck750

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2022, 10:44:23 AM »
The Brembo calipers were anodized black from the factory. I found a local anodizing shop that would do a calipers body for about $10 a pop. You can strip the anodizing off with a vapour blaster or an acid. The sheen of the anodizing depends on how shiny the bare aluminum is before anodizing.
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2022, 03:00:27 PM »
Perfect Jim, I'll look into that.

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2022, 01:48:30 PM »
Progress on paint... went with Mahindra Red as recommended on the forum.

We are going with PPG Hot Rod Black for the tank accents but we're struggling with what to use for the fluorescent orange. Does anyone after a specific paint (brand/color code) they've used that has worked well?  I'm trying to get as close to OEM as possible.

Also got the wheels back from the powder coater... not happy with the color they choose, looks more gray than silver, ugh, they'll have to be redone.  Thinking about either Prismatic BMW Silver or Porsche Silver with a satin clear coat.  Anyone have any suggestions?

Offline Canuck750

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2022, 07:14:01 PM »
Progress on paint... went with Mahindra Red as recommended on the forum.

We are going with PPG Hot Rod Black for the tank accents but we're struggling with what to use for the fluorescent orange. Does anyone after a specific paint (brand/color code) they've used that has worked well?  I'm trying to get as close to OEM as possible.

Also got the wheels back from the powder coater... not happy with the color they choose, looks more gray than silver, ugh, they'll have to be redone.  Thinking about either Prismatic BMW Silver or Porsche Silver with a satin clear coat.  Anyone have any suggestions?

My painter used a 'Day-Glo' orange but he could not give me any colour codes, it was apparently some product he had kicking around.

Given what wrap shops can do now with wrapping complex curves I would look into a day glow orange wrap.
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2022, 02:55:06 PM »
Originally I was going to just get a new complete exhaust but the factory mufflers, headers, and crossover are in great shape aside from some dents in the muffler so I'd really like to keep them, at least for a while to let my checkbook cool a bit. I filled in the dents with HiTemp LabMetal.

The repair looks reasonable, at least much better than before, and while you can powder coat Hi-Temp LabMetal, Ceramic coating is not supported by the manufacturer and I read others didn't have success (although they may not have been using the Hi-Temp variant). So my choices appear to be to just paint them with Hi-Temp exhaust paint, just bought some from Eastwood, or ceramic coat the headers and cross-overs and paint the mufflers only. I have no idea what the Eastwood Satin black paint will look like next the Ceramic but worst case I'm thinking I can spray over the ceramic like @canuck750 did. When I had my first Le Mans I put a lot of miles on it between re-spraying them every few years... I might be putting 1K mi/yr on this bike at best. Wondering if it's worth getting some of it ceramic coated or just re-spray them when necessary. 

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2022, 09:13:52 PM »
Originally I was going to just get a new complete exhaust but the factory mufflers, headers, and crossover are in great shape aside from some dents in the muffler so I'd really like to keep them, at least for a while to let my checkbook cool a bit. I filled in the dents with HiTemp LabMetal.

The repair looks reasonable, at least much better than before, and while you can powder coat Hi-Temp LabMetal, Ceramic coating is not supported by the manufacturer and I read others didn't have success (although they may not have been using the Hi-Temp variant). So my choices appear to be to just paint them with Hi-Temp exhaust paint, just bought some from Eastwood, or ceramic coat the headers and cross-overs and paint the mufflers only. I have no idea what the Eastwood Satin black paint will look like next the Ceramic but worst case I'm thinking I can spray over the ceramic like @canuck750 did. When I had my first Le Mans I put a lot of miles on it between re-spraying them every few years... I might be putting 1K mi/yr on this bike at best. Wondering if it's worth getting some of it ceramic coated or just re-spray them when necessary.

Some powdercoating shops offer "wet spray" as well - paint the part and then bake it in their oven. The shop that does my stuff said it's more durable than high temp powder.
Charlie

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2022, 10:05:23 PM »
Well that's interesting, I'll look into it.  Thanks Charlie.

Offline Canuck750

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2022, 10:32:26 PM »
I have had bad luck with the flat black ceramic on mufflers, I have heard the 'chrome' like ceramic is much better.

On my 750S the ceramic coat will mark very,very easily,



I should have just painted them with the header paint from VHT (much better tham VHT standard high heat engione paint)
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2022, 11:58:33 AM »
Thanks for the advice. I'm either going to just paint them with Eastwood Hi-temp exhaust paint that can handle up to 1400 degrees or look into Charlie's suggestion.

https://www.eastwood.com/satin-black-hi-temp-coating.html
« Last Edit: February 28, 2022, 12:00:00 PM by 2WheelsUp »

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2022, 12:34:24 PM »
I found a replacement set of clip-ons that were chrome rather than black. I had them powder coated black and instructed them to not coat the area that provides a ground to the switches. They simply taped over that area so now it still has the chrome plating on it.  Will chrome provide a solid ground for the switches?  For those of you that have a 76 or 77 Le Mans with chrome clip-ons, do you remember what the area where the switches ground to looked like?

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2022, 04:01:05 PM »
I found a replacement set of clip-ons that were chrome rather than black. I had them powder coated black and instructed them to not coat the area that provides a ground to the switches. They simply taped over that area so now it still has the chrome plating on it.  Will chrome provide a solid ground for the switches?  For those of you that have a 76 or 77 Le Mans with chrome clip-ons, do you remember what the area where the switches ground to looked like?

It will be fine with chrome as the ground path.
Charlie

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2022, 04:56:20 PM »
Thanks Charlie!

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2022, 12:00:19 PM »
Anyone know where the negative battery cable grounds to the frame. Is it at the battery plate to frame mounting point or maybe the battery plate to gearbox?  Does it need to have a ground to just the frame or the frame and engine?  Thanks.

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2022, 12:09:42 PM »
Anyone know where the negative battery cable grounds to the frame. Is it at the battery plate to frame mounting point or maybe the battery plate to gearbox?  Does it need to have a ground to just the frame or the frame and engine?  Thanks.

It originally grounded at the battery plate to frame bolt closest to the speedo drive. If you attach it there, then you'll need to make ground paths to both the engine/trans and frame - remove powdercoat from the ground point on the tray where the ground cable attaches, underside of the tray where it contacts the frame, the frame tab the tray contacts, and battery tray where it bolts to the transmission.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2022, 08:27:31 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2022, 02:16:36 PM »
Sort of what I thought, glad I asked.  Thanks Charlie!

Offline 2WheelsUp

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Re: 1978 Le Mans restoration
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2022, 10:20:20 AM »
I've made quite a bit of progress on my Le Mans. Got the drive train back from Charlie... found it had out of spec rings on one side only for whatever reason. Also fixed the oil leak between the engine and gearbox, new shift return spring, but all good otherwise... everything points to a low mile bike per the odometer. GuzziSteve went through my final drive, fixed a leaky and stripped level plug. Getting ready to install it into the frame after installing a Greg Bender wire harness.

I found a handy frame stand that made the job easy.





After some tips from Charlie the swingarm went in easy.

Rebuilt my calipers and added new lines. Virtually all of them had crystalized crud in the valves. I was able to bleed them using speed bleeders but it didn't work very well. I had to suck the fluid through using my Mighty Vac and even then there is a lot of air left in the lines. I'll ask GuzziSteve to bleed them with his professional bleeder tool.

With some coaching from Greg Bender, I turned the key for the first time on Friday.

Everything lit up and the starter could be activated ... then no power. After an afternoon with a circuit tester pulling things apart I found a weak ground for the voltage regulator. Fixed that... power's back... but now my starter switch doesn't work. I believe there is a good ground from the switch to the clip-on but after that I'm not sure how the clip-on grounds to the frame. I looked at my old clip-on and the paint on the top of cylinder has been removed ... mine has powder coat on it. Wondering if I'm missing something but looks like I need to work on making a ground path to the frame. Ugh... I knew this would be the worst part of this project.  Happy Easter!

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