Author Topic: Uh oh..broken bleeder valve  (Read 2720 times)

Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2022, 05:54:39 AM »
I use never seize on  about everything that doesn't require lock tight. Including bleeder screws  :grin:

Good advice, since it also helps seal the thread to make bleeding more effective.

I've recently switched to a hydraulic thread sealant sold thru McMaster-Carr.  Or sometime teflon tape.
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Online Moparnut72

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2022, 08:12:47 AM »
I haven't watched it but here is a comparison of penetrating fluids. This guy does a lot of these types of comparisons.
kk

https://youtu.be/xUEob2oAKVs
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2022, 08:49:39 AM »
One of my favorites, seems to work best in some situations:

https://www.crcindustries.com/products/freeze-off-174-super-penetrant-11-5-wt-oz.html
Charlie

Offline lucian

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2022, 01:55:32 PM »
Hurry up Chuck . we're  slip sliding into an  olio thread  :popcorn:

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2022, 01:55:32 PM »

Offline MotoGuzzi750

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2022, 03:17:11 PM »
That's the problem with those new fangled hydraulic brake systems!

Shoes and cables!  That's how brakes should be!!!

You saying Shoes and cables reminded me of my elder brother changing brake shoes on 1982 Suzuki 100 ( two stroke ), with me helping/hanging around.
This must have been about 30 years ago..around 1986..
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2022, 03:50:25 PM »
Hurry up Chuck . we're  slip sliding into an  olio thread  :popcorn:
OK.
Let me preface this with I've done this job before without issue..
 "They said it couldn't be done, so I tackled it with a grin."

I couldn't do it, either.  :smiley:
Got my stuff ready..
My left hand drills and eze out set, and my for all practical purposes indestructible Snap On stud removers.

Indicated it in the mill, drilled with the left hand drill..nada. Put the eze out in my little tap wrench, tapped it in with my copper hammer, and gave it a go. "Uh oh..I'm right at breaking this eze out torque, and it's not budging."
Put my Snap on remover in there, and tapped with my copper hammer while keeping pressure on it.

All that succeeded in doing was cutting through what was left of the bleeder valve.  :shocked: :rolleyes:
Ok, this is getting serious.  :smiley:
Went back to the house, looked on the net for a new one. Obsolete. Saw a guy on ebay that had a pair of "like new" ones with 100% satisfaction and hit the buy it now button.  :smiley:
Back to the shop, indicated it back up as best I could after the eze outs ate out my hole, and drilled a tap drill for M6 threads. Tried to pick out what was left, and apparently this bleeder valve had decided to become one with the caliper. :grin: :boozing:
Tapped it M6, but don't have good threads at the top, of course.

I'll throw it into my "good junk" pile, and wait for the "like new" ones to arrive in the mail.
Dorcia was right. Getting down to one motorcycle and a sort of rare one at that wasn't a good idea. "What are you going to ride if you have to find an unavailable part? Go buy a new one."
Great idea, Sweetie.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
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Offline lucian

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2022, 04:30:15 PM »
A noble go at it , sometimes the die is just cast I guess. Don't know if if they come in smaller sizes but I love me these npt repair rigs.
   




 Maybe you could tap the bleeder hole for the flare fitting and tap the flare fitting hole for the bleeder repair kit?
   
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 04:33:11 PM by lucian »

Offline Huzo

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2022, 05:25:31 PM »
Well that’s sad…
I’d have loved to have had a go at that. :sad:
Why not give it to Canuck 750 and I’ll get it from him at Mandello ?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 05:28:10 PM by Huzo »

Online bad Chad

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2022, 06:26:21 PM »
Lots of different opinions, who would have thought?   

What I take from this is, it’s a crap shoot.  If you **** it up, maybe you can in **** it, maybe lube will work, but don’t hold your breath.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 10:03:35 PM by Ncdan »
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Offline Huzo

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2022, 07:03:39 PM »
Lots of different opinions, who would have thought?   

What I take from this is, it’s a crap shoot.  If you f*** it up, maybe you can in f@“k it, maybe lube will work, but don’t hold your breath.
I think the correct term is “un” not “in”.
It’s not a crap shoot Chad, it’s an application of years of experience, intuition, intelligence and as much luck as is floating around..(which you may or may not draw from..)
Funny thing is, the more you shut up and listen, the luckier (or smarter) you get.
It’s mildly demeaning to think you can allocate a measure of luck, to the success of a master machinist.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 07:04:56 PM by Huzo »

Online RinkRat II

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2022, 07:42:46 PM »
A Miller in the hand is worth two in the fridge.

Online Tkelly

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2022, 08:06:08 PM »
We had a cat that came in handy for problems like this.She seemed to know when I was about to take a bigger hammer to the offending part and would rub up against me purring until I walked away.Living to fight another day.

Online jhem68

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2022, 10:19:36 PM »
I had a similar problem with an F08 Brembo with dual 6mm bleeders on my 850T. After one bleeder broke off and I failed to get it out by drilling and using two different styles of EZ outs, I gave up and bought a newer style single 8 mm bleeder F08 from MG Cycle.
When Maynard heard me tell my story of failure, he informed me that he had carefully drilled these out. tapped, and installed an 8mm bleeder in place of the original 6mm.  Would you have enough material on this caliper to try and make that modification as a last alternative should the threads on your current attempt be inadequate?

Offline Huzo

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2022, 10:53:05 PM »
I had a similar problem with an F08 Brembo with dual 6mm bleeders on my 850T. After one bleeder broke off and I failed to get it out by drilling and using two different styles of EZ outs, I gave up and bought a newer style single 8 mm bleeder F08 from MG Cycle.
When Maynard heard me tell my story of failure, he informed me that he had carefully drilled these out. tapped, and installed an 8mm bleeder in place of the original 6mm.  Would you have enough material on this caliper to try and make that modification as a last alternative should the threads on your current attempt be inadequate?
Looks like there’s a fair bit of meat there.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2022, 06:52:27 AM »
  Just a thought............ ..........https://www.toolsource.com/bleeders-c-1321_79_81/18-inch-npt-disc-brake-bleeder-screw-repair-kit-p-54436.html

      Paul B   :boozing:

Perfect.  :thumb:
As I said, I threw this one on the "good junk" pile. It *can* be repaired.. but.. the AeroLario is my "wind up" bike, and any time I see something obsolete that I think I might need.. I get it. I have many Lario only spares from a search on Ebay that emails me when Lario stuff pops up. It used to do that regularly, but now it seldom does..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline Cam3512

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2022, 07:18:19 AM »
Might wanna throw some anti seize on the threads of the “new” ones.  Or better yet, stainless Speed Bleeders?
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Uh oh..
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2022, 07:49:22 AM »
Might wanna throw some anti seize on the threads of the “new” ones.  Or better yet, stainless Speed Bleeders?

Ya think?  :grin: This stuff is all my fault, of course. I haven't changed out the brake fluid since boiling them on the 555 at the Ohio rally 3 or 4 years ago. Roadkyll had some brake fluid with him, and we bled them, but there was no doubt still water in the system. I just sort of forgot about it..
At any rate, we've probably added to the knowledge base of WG a little bit.
Edit:
It just dawned on me to change the title to make it easier to find in a search.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2022, 08:13:44 AM by Chuck in Indiana »
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Uh oh..broken bleeder valve
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2022, 09:45:23 AM »
Closure to this thread (sort of)  :smiley: Got some speed bleeders, and the retapped treads are good enough. Squirted fresh Dot4 into the system, and got some pedal. Hung my "bleeder's helper" on the lever overnight, and have a good pedal, now.


However.. I must be doing *something* wrong. Decided to put new seals and pads in the like new set of F05s I snatched off ebay, and ran into an issue. The instructions say to soak the square ring and dust seal in brake fluid, install both, lube the piston, and push it straight in. I had to get a 2X4 and put all my considerable weight on it to get it to go in.
Started on the second one and saw this..

You can see where the dust seal is cut. Thought, "Uh oh"  :smiley: again and used compressed air to blow out the first one.

Now, it may have torn it more flyin out of there :evil: but it was torn, too.
What am I doing wrong? Following the instructions? Should I have fit the dust seal on the piston before installing it? As I'm mentioned before, I'm *not* a Guzzi mechanic, but this shouldn't be that hard..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Online bmc5733946

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Re: Uh oh..broken bleeder valve
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2022, 10:28:12 AM »
I have never found brake fluid to be a very good lube for installing dust seals that are trapped between the caliper and piston. Ther are many brake lubes that can be used in contact with brake fluid. Dow Corning makes a silicone paste I have used with success, I have also used Sil-Glyde from American Grease Stick. Do not under any circumstance use Ru-Glyde another AGS product. Silicone sprays can also be used.  Using any of these methods one may beconcerned about contamination of the fluid system, rinsing the fluid chamber with brake fluid should allay any fears. I have rebuilt 1000s of automotive calipers using these methods and never had a problem. The brake companies I've dealt with over the years have provided a lube capsule with rebuild kits, maybe your local Napa store could provide some of those.   As always, YMMV!!!!

Brian
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Offline Muzz

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Re: Uh oh..broken bleeder valve
« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2022, 01:17:51 AM »
I use the PBR brake grease. Compatible with brake fluid and a good lube.
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: Uh oh..broken bleeder valve
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2022, 01:44:32 AM »
Brake fluid is a poor assembly lube. I wouldn't worry about using it though. Most Brembo callipers don't even use dust seals.

Phil
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Uh oh..broken bleeder valve
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2022, 08:11:11 AM »
Brake fluid is a poor assembly lube. I wouldn't worry about using it though. Most Brembo callipers don't even use dust seals.

Phil

Thanks, Phil. It's probably my misconception that the dust seal was involved in retracting the piston when pressure is relieved? Old wife's tale?  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

Offline Muzz

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Re: Uh oh..broken bleeder valve
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2022, 03:47:17 PM »
Thanks, Phil. It's probably my misconception that the dust seal was involved in retracting the piston when pressure is relieved? Old wife's tale?  :smiley:

Not sure that enough tension is in the dust seal to do that Chuck. :undecided:

I always thought that the disk just pushed the piston out of the way as soon as the lever was released.
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: Uh oh..broken bleeder valve
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2022, 05:40:50 PM »
Thanks, Phil. It's probably my misconception that the dust seal was involved in retracting the piston when pressure is relieved? Old wife's tale?  :smiley:

No Chuck that's the job of the main seals. I've got two different Brembo callipers on my bench at the moment and neither have dust seals nor do the ones on the V11.

Phil

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Online bmc5733946

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Re: Uh oh..broken bleeder valve
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2022, 05:47:40 PM »
My training and experience tell me that distortion of the square cut piston seal on brake application, as the piston moves outward from the bore, is what retracts the piston. The dust boot is just that. Sometimes with cast iron calipers on cars that had dust seals that installed in a groove in the piston bore of the caliper, so much corrosion collected in the groove that the dust boot would get cut and or the piston would sieze on the distorted dust boot. I much preferred the dust boots that were installed in a register out side of and larger than the piston bore. Like so.

https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/brake-piston-seal.html

  Brian
« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 08:41:14 AM by bmc5733946 »
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Uh oh..broken bleeder valve
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2022, 06:41:13 AM »
Ok, thanks, gentlemen.  :thumb: Gotta love WG.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
87 AeroLario
95 Skorpion tour
22 Royal Enfield Classic 3 fiddy
 "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
Albert Einstein

 

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