2017 Anniversario Will Not Run.

[newtotheGuzzi]

Hey everyone! I'm new to the Guzzi world. Just purchased a 2017 v7 iii Anniversario. Only 1500 miles. It ran great for 200 miles. No problems at all. But after one day of hard riding, it barely started. It will turn over but the idle is awful. It goes up and down between 1000 and 2000 rpm. Fluctuates constantly. Anytime I give it gas, it dies. I called Guzzi and unfortunately its 25 days out of warranty, I live in Oklahoma and drove to Oregon to get this bike so im miles away from a dealer. Any ideas??? We changed the plugs, fuses, reconnected the battery. Nothing. Im at a loss. I just went online and purchased Guzzidiag so maybe that will help when it gets here in a few days. Until then any help you guys could give me will be greatly appreciated. Love the bike. Love the group. Looking forward to learning a lot. Thanks

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ok, I'll be first. I'm betting your battery is toast.

[pete roper]

Start with the simple stuff. If you were riding it hard and the oil was even a little bit over filled it may well of pumped a load into the airbox and fouled the filter. Pull the filter, (Under the seat, left hand side.) and see if the airbox is full of oil and the filter is soggy.

Pete

[newtotheGuzzi]

It turns over just fine. So I don’t think it’s battery related. I checked the filter and all is well there. No oil, looks brand new. Thank you so much for the replies guys.

[delrod]

So where in Oklahoma? Might be someone close to you for help

[fotoguzzi]

I'm not familiar with the single throttle body but could there be a vacuum hose come loose or something?

[oldbike54]

 Yes , where are you in Oklahoma ?

 Dusty

[Kiwi_Roy]

When you say it barely started did it crank as normal or did it seem slow to start cranking
Or crank weakly

Have you cleaned the battery terminals, if not scrape the terminals and apply Vaseline
Any thing at all show up on the dash like flickering lamps?

Did you notice anything else however innocent it seems?

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif

[Kev m]

Secondary ignition wires? Anything intermittently shorting or has too much resistance (contacts separating)?

Fuel? Any refueling occur shortly before parking?

Any other loose/intermittent connections? Batt terminals, regulator, one of the sensors (head temp)?

Any other mechanical thing we're missing. Filter looks good, but how about airbox under/behind it? Throttle body/intake seals?!?

[Kiwi_Roy]

To add to Kev M, check it hasn't sucked something into the air intake.

I will put my money on an intermittent contact causing faulty injection or ignition, perhaps a faulty ignition switch.
Try swapping the injection relay (28) with one of the other two. On my V7 iii all relays are the same.

[rocker59]

For what it's worth:

MOTIV Cycle Works
Official dealer
906 N. Ann Arbor - Oklahoma City (OK) 73127
TEL: (405) 641-1801

WEBSITE: www.motivcycleworks .com

[malik]

As Pete says, simple things first.

Ensure the caps connect solidly to the spark plugs.
Unscrew the caps from the HT wire & check the ends for corrosion.
Check that the HT wires other ends connect properly to the coils.
Check the throttle linkages and connections, especially near the throttle body, are solid & working well.
Check the state of the oxygen sensor junction boxes to the main harness
Is bad fuel a possibility? Drain & replace.
Try a hard reset of the ECU by disconnecting the -Ve terminal for 5-10 minutes.
The battery should be around 12.9V or more.

Not so simple -
Check the hose down from the fuel filter - the fuel pump will have to come out for this - sometimes they soften & come off. Haven't heard of the with the III, but it's a possibility.

Others should be along soon with more suggestions to check.

[Bisbonian]

Consider disconnecting the charcoal canister. That thing has been know to cause some strange running problems and it costs virtually nothing.

[alanp]

The variation in the idle (1000-2000) indicates something electronic to me, but not sure what unfortunately?  Others who are more knowledgeable than me, what would cause a surging idle and poor to barely running?  The surging idle seems key, and I don't see how that could be caused by:
-Bad gas
-Poor spark plug wire connections
-fuel line or filter issues
-The carbon canister
-Weak battery
Those might cause poor running but not a surging idle I wouldn't think?  I am with Kevm, Malik and Kiwi Roy in that I would suspect an ignition system issue or short, sensor connections, relays, etc. 

 

[newtotheGuzzi]

I can’t thank you all enough for the reply’s. I’m located in Pryor Oklahoma. It’s about 45 mins east of Tulsa. The surging idle seems to be the link for me as well but I’m excited to try everything listed. Oklahoma City is the only dealer I know of and that’s about three hours away. They also can’t work me in for at least three weeks. I’m hoping it’s some sensor or  reset idk. It was very low on fuel when it started this. I’ve filled it up and was hoping it had something to do with it. It also rained pretty hard on my way back home. Hour and a half maybe. Hope that helps. Again can’t thank you enough

[oldbike54]

I can’t thank you all enough for the reply’s. I’m located in Pryor Oklahoma. It’s about 45 mins east of Tulsa. The surging idle seems to be the link for me as well but I’m excited to try everything listed. Oklahoma City is the only dealer I know of and that’s about three hours away. They also can’t work me in for at least three weeks. I’m hoping it’s some sensor or  reset idk. It was very low on fuel when it started this. I’ve filled it up and was hoping it had something to do with it. It also rained pretty hard on my way back home. Hour and a half maybe. Hope that helps. Again can’t thank you enough

 I am hardly conversant with the newer models , but have helped sort out a couple of them . I'm just about 40 miles South of you , we can figure something out before the Okie camp out in October .

 Dusty

[Moto]

... It ran great for 200 miles. No problems at all. But after one day of hard riding, it barely started. It will turn over but the idle is awful. It goes up and down between 1000 and 2000 rpm. Fluctuates constantly. Anytime I give it gas, it dies.

... It also rained pretty hard on my way back home. Hour and a half maybe....

If I understand correctly, you had no trouble during a day of hard riding and hard rain. You say, "after one day ... it barely started." If you mean that it barely started the next day, maybe you have water in your gas tank. This might have entered during the rain (or maybe when stopping for fuel?), and then settled to the bottom of the tank after your ride. The gas pickup is in the bottom of the tank where water would settle.

Your symptoms seem consistent with water, an unlikely but possible problem.

Moto

[Kev m]

The variation in the idle (1000-2000) indicates something electronic to me, but not sure what unfortunately?  Others who are more knowledgeable than me, what would cause a surging idle and poor to barely running?  The surging idle seems key, and I don't see how that could be caused by:
-Bad gas
-Poor spark plug wire connections
-fuel line or filter issues
-The carbon canister
-Weak battery

Bad gas - can intermittently foul combustion. This squirt had too much water, next squirt didn't = surge.

Poor connections on secondary ignition circuit - can intermittently short to ground, no or weak spark = surge

Fuel line or filter issues - fuel pressure can intermittently vary if there is a leak = surge

Carbon canister - vacuum leak or flooded with fuel can = surge

Weak battery, if charging system not keeping voltage up at idle can play wonky wonky with solid state components can = surge

Actually the sensor thing is similar to the spark plug or battery concern, loose/intermittent contacts playing with the circuit signal varying wildly can = surge.

But troubleshooting 101 is start with simple/least complicated and go from there. Check battery, plugs, wiring harness and connections ...

[Kev m]

If I understand correctly, you had no trouble during a day of hard riding and hard rain. You say, "after one day ... it barely started." If you mean that it barely started the next day, maybe you have water in your gas tank. This might have entered during the rain (or maybe when stopping for fuel?), and then settled to the bottom of the tank after your ride. The gas pickup is in the bottom of the tank where water would settle.

Your symptoms seem consistent with water, an unlikely but possible problem.

Moto

Also water in a loose connection can cause all this.

It's been a couple of days now right? Dried out?

[Huzo]

If the idle was fluctuating from 1200 (normal) down to some lower figure, I’d suggest you’re losing a cylinder intermittently, but not so it seems.
I think it’s significant that your idle is going from normal UP to 2,000.
Could it be a stepper commanding an erroneous idle speed spasmodically? I would like to know if both cylinders are operating equally during times of poor running. Check by testing exhaust pipe header temp by careful touching by hand.
If both cylinders are performing equally (good or bad), might it be an erroneous command from the ECU due to poor connection, or a poor connection to lambda sensor ?
Let us know if both your cylinders are performing equally, or at least are they fluctuating at the same time.
Also.
When describing symptoms, it’s extremely important to try not to use ambiguous terms like “turned over but idled badly” or similar. “Turned over” can mean cranking on the starter, or running by itself.

[newtotheGuzzi]

Both cylinders are performing. My uncle is helping me today after noon sometime. We are going to go through the checklist of the suggestions you guys had. I’m still hoping we can figure this out. I’d like to ride. But worst case scenario I guess I haul it to old and have eurotek take a look. I called Motiv and they said they don’t have service their. Just sales. If it’s a service issue they contract it out to someone. Thanks again guys. Really. I’ll let you know what we figure out once we start running the gauntlet.

[Huzo]

Good luck mate.
Tell us everything you discover, good or bad.

[elvisboy77]

Both cylinders are performing. My uncle is helping me today after noon sometime. We are going to go through the checklist of the suggestions you guys had. I’m still hoping we can figure this out. I’d like to ride. But worst case scenario I guess I haul it to old and have eurotek take a look. I called Motiv and they said they don’t have service their. Just sales. If it’s a service issue they contract it out to someone. Thanks again guys. Really. I’ll let you know what we figure out once we start running the gauntlet.

Hmmm low on gas and now an issue, could be excess water.  Have you tried HEET or Sea Foam or some such to remove water?  It would be worth it, low cost fix, but that stuff is NASTY to finishes so use a funnel!

I've got an Anniversario and it is running great, don't give up these are awesome bikes!

[malik]

Hmmm low on gas and now an issue, could be excess water.  Have you tried HEET or Sea Foam or some such to remove water?  It would be worth it, low cost fix, but that stuff is NASTY to finishes so use a funnel!

I've got an Anniversario and it is running great, don't give up these are awesome bikes!

Or just add half a cup, say, of methylated spirits, slosh it around a bit to get it to mix with the water. It should  then burn off.

[Huzo]

Why would the idle fluctuate UPWARD to 2,000 revs due to the presence of water ?
None of the suggestions here should be discarded, but it’s significant that the idle will INCREASE autonomously then fluctuate.
 I’m thinking something that commands engine performance is near the source of the trouble, given that (apparently), both cylinders are affected simultaneously.
Does the bike run a stepper motor ? If so I would disconnect the plumbing temporarily but keep the electricals connected and see if the anomaly goes away.
If an errant stepper is the issue and it happens to lean the mixture at the same time as you open the throttle, it’ll stagger or die..
I don’t think the issue necessarily revolves around you riding it the previous day, you probably took a piss the previous day, but that won’t be the problem..

[Kev m]

Why would the idle fluctuate UPWARD to 2,000 revs due to the presence of water ?
None of the suggestions here should be discarded, but it’s significant that the idle will INCREASE autonomously then fluctuate.
 I’m thinking something that commands engine performance is near the source of the trouble, given that (apparently), both cylinders are affected simultaneously.
Does the bike run a stepper motor ? If so I would disconnect the plumbing temporarily but keep the electricals connected and see if the anomaly goes away.
If an errant stepper is the issue and it happens to lean the mixture at the same time as you open the throttle, it’ll stagger or die..
I don’t think the issue necessarily revolves around you riding it the previous day, you probably took a piss the previous day, but that won’t be the problem..

Many 1TB models (MkI and don't MKII) have surging problems on cold starts already, idle moving up and down around the idle spec.

I'm not sure what's occurring there when it happens, but it seems like the ECM is over-correcting while trying hard to hit the target idle rpm. Could be on the fuel side. Could be air.

The combo ECM/throttle body on these models use a stepper motor for idle, but it's all integral and not officially serviceable. Not sure how it can be isolated mechanically for testing.

[Huzo]

Many 1TB models (MkI and don't MKII) have surging problems on cold starts already, idle moving up and down around the idle spec.

I'm not sure what's occurring there when it happens, but it seems like the ECM is over-correcting while trying hard to hit the target idle rpm. Could be on the fuel side. Could be air.

The combo ECM/throttle body on these models use a stepper motor for idle, but it's all integral and not officially serviceable. Not sure how it can be isolated mechanically for testing.

Hmmmm...

[Ryan]

1500 miles on her at purchase, 200 miles and one tank of fuel. The gas may have been in that tank a long time. So anything crappy in that gas could have been killing your O2 sensor. It may sense a lean condition, richen it up, then swing back the other way. I have seen this in cars, it will cause a constant fluctuation of 700-1000 rpm until replaced. Don't know if that is your problem or if your injection system even uses an O2 sensor, but the behavior at idle is consistent with a bad sensor.

[fotoguzzi]

1500 miles on her at purchase, 200 miles and one tank of fuel. The gas may have been in that tank a long time. So anything crappy in that gas could have been killing your O2 sensor. It may sense a lean condition, richen it up, then swing back the other way. I have seen this in cars, it will cause a constant fluctuation of 700-1000 rpm until replaced. Don't know if that is your problem or if your injection system even uses an O2 sensor, but the behavior at idle is consistent with a bad sensor.

like

[Yeahoo Whoyah]

Only 1500-miles on a two year old bike.  Today's "corn gas" gets nasty fast. I'll bet it's fuel related as others have suggested.