Author Topic: 1971 Ambassador revival  (Read 15512 times)

Offline demet

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1971 Ambassador revival
« on: September 28, 2021, 07:14:29 PM »
Hello all, I just purchased this 1971 Ambassador. I've had a few airhead beemers over the years, and my lust for a Moto Guzzi slowly grew until I could stop myself haha. This one has been sitting for 10 years. Seller swore up and down it was running fine. Then he had leak in gas tank, took it off and had it relined and never reconnected it. I had planned to have a mechanic check it out prior to purchase, but I was not able to quickly find one willing to work on it in Portland OR, and I didn't want to miss out on it like I did on another a few weeks ago, so I just bought it.

I'd like to try to get it running, and have basic tools and shop space, but not a lot of experience with vehicle mechanics. But I'm fairly handy and willing to figure things out! If I can find a good mechanic I might have them check it out thoroughly so I know what I have my hands on.

So does anyone have any advice on how to get started? Oh there's also no battery. I do have one from my BMW R90/6 that is good, 6 volt though, these take 12v right? Need to reinstall the petcocks, attach to fuel lines, connect to battery and fire it up? Don't want to damage anything of course. I'll be doing a bunch of research I guess before I get too far.

Thanks for any advice, here is album of pictures. Lots of extra parts, many of which I do not know what they are. But it did come with fairing, cases, rear seat backrest/rack.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rkinmDKWmffzb9ov6

Ultimately I want to get it rideable and cosmetically presentable, but not fully restored just yet. I plan to just ride it around town mostly, maybe a roadtrip at some point but not a focus for me.
Best
Demetrius


Offline Canuck750

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2021, 07:57:21 PM »
Start here - Greg Benders one stop shop of all things Loop Frame, what does not exist on this web site does not matter

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe.html
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2021, 10:15:00 PM »
Thanks I am aware of the chrome cylinder sleeve issue. Need to get in there and verify they have not been replaced. Probably not given the history of the bike, but you never know. If chrome looks good, can i run with it for the time being? Or imperative to replace aASAP?
That engine probably still has the original chrome plated cylinders , do not start it until that is dealt with . The experts will come along soon to explain why .

 TS

Offline AJ Huff

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2021, 10:18:47 PM »
Replace ASAP if chrome.

-AJ
'71 Ambassador
'01 California Special
'05 Road King
MGNOC# L-753

Wildguzzi.com

Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2021, 10:18:47 PM »

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2021, 10:31:26 PM »
I found that site last night, but thanks! Holy toledo what a resource! Have downloaded user manual, which seller included in faded printed out copy. Good to have on my CPU as well.

Start here - Greg Benders one stop shop of all things Loop Frame, what does not exist on this web site does not matter

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe.html

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2021, 10:32:31 PM »
OK I will take it seriously!

My friend here RHAT is new to the Guzzi world , started with a Norge and then went backward to an Ambassador . He is out in San Diego on vacation or he would tell you how expensive and time consuming not dealing with the chrome bore issue before running the bike can be . save the headaches and deal with it , crankshafts are expensive.

 Dusty

Offline Scout63

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2021, 10:43:16 PM »
Congratulations and welcome Demetrius. You’re exactly where I was when I bought my first Guzzi and joined this forum. I recommend:

Buy a good shop manual
Clean the bike well.
Remove and clean the carbs
Inspect and clean the sump
Replace all the fluids
Visually inspect the cylinders (inside) and pistons. Rotate the pistons using the rear wheel.
Make sure the airbox, battery box, timing chest, intake and exhausts are clear of rodent nests, etc.
Check steering, swingarm and wheel bearings for proper movement
Check gearbox action and shifting
Check inside fuel tank and all fuel lines
Check brake, throttle and clutch cables.

Then try to start it, but don’t ride it anywhere outside the block without replacing tires and tubes.

It’s a great looking bike and will make you a better mechanic 
Ben Zehnder - Orleans, MA USA

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2021, 10:55:09 PM »
Thank you! The carbs have been on my mind. Seller told me he drained all the fuel before storage, so hopefully they are not gummed up as I have seen with BMWs I have had. Just need to understand how they work, how they come apart, etc. And then drain oil and inspect sump, yes, hopefully I can find some tutorials/videos on this.

Thinking about tools I might need. I have a good socket set, metric, but not basic wrench set, like the open ended ones that would have been in tool kit. I do have 1976 R90/6 BMW tool kit, so maybe that will suffice?

PS: an R75/5 was my second choice bike, and there is one up for sale nearby that I almost called, but then I found the Ambassador ;-)

Congratulations and welcome Demetrius. You’re exactly where I was when I bought my first Guzzi and joined this forum. I recommend:

Buy a good shop manual
Clean the bike well.
Remove and clean the carbs
Inspect and clean the sump
Replace all the fluids
Visually inspect the cylinders (inside) and pistons. Rotate the pistons using the rear wheel.
Make sure the airbox, battery box, timing chest, intake and exhausts are clear of rodent nests, etc.
Check steering, swingarm and wheel bearings for proper movement
Check gearbox action and shifting
Check inside fuel tank and all fuel lines
Check brake, throttle and clutch cables.

Then try to start it, but don’t ride it anywhere outside the block without replacing tires and tubes.

It’s a great looking bike and will make you a better mechanic
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 10:56:58 PM by demet »

Offline AJ Huff

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2021, 11:28:58 PM »
I remember being worried about my cylinders being chromed. Some paperwork I had from when the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner said they were chrome. So dropping the pan one day to check for flakes I looked up and saw the word GILARDONI cast into the bottom of the cylinder casting. Wow what's a relief that was! Maybe you will get lucky too.

-AJ
'71 Ambassador
'01 California Special
'05 Road King
MGNOC# L-753

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2021, 05:01:29 AM »
I remember being worried about my cylinders being chromed. Some paperwork I had from when the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner said they were chrome. So dropping the pan one day to check for flakes I looked up and saw the word GILARDONI cast into the bottom of the cylinder casting. Wow what's a relief that was! Maybe you will get lucky too.

-AJ
Are you saying look inside the engine AJ?, mine have it on the outside, they were replaced only 10 years ago. You can also get a slight attraction with a magnet, no attraction with chrome.
You are missing the brackets that go between the frame and exhaust header they are there in picture No 14
How was it stored all those years, look at the tire date code, post it back here they may be ok for a while if it wasn't left in the sun.
Just drop the float bowls off, nut at the bottom you will soon se if they are gummed up, the jets are all accessible right there, you may have to rotate the carbs slightly to get the bowl off.
Don't worry about the rust on the crash bars, rear springs etc, that can be disguised with some silver paint, mine were a lot worse.
Just about any 12 Volt battery can be made to work, these old girls burst into life with the slightest provocation, I think lots of owners use the Wally World lawn tractor variety.
I'm looking forward to your ride report.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 05:15:40 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline John A

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2021, 05:41:54 AM »
In the pics the external chrome looks good enough that I’d try wax and fine steel wool, work’s wonders.  On the cylinder chrome, it’s very hard so if it comes off and the chips circulate in the oil it will embed in the softer areas like cam bearings and oil pump aluminum surfaces in block and slowly grind away. judicious work with a bearing scraper that most just ignore, myself included unless it’s really bad. At least the main and rod bearings are replaceable
Great bikes once sorted
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 05:43:24 AM by John A »
John
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2021, 08:55:32 AM »
Thanks I am aware of the chrome cylinder sleeve issue. Need to get in there and verify they have not been replaced. Probably not given the history of the bike, but you never know. If chrome looks good, can i run with it for the time being? Or imperative to replace aASAP?

There is no need to "get in there" to determine if it still has chrome bores or not. In some cases, the name "Gilardoni" will be cast into the cylinders between two fins at the base of the cylinders, but not always. Otherwise, remove a sparkplug, make sure the piston is down away from TDC, insert a strong "pencil magnet" and touch it against the cylinder wall. Zero magnetic attraction = chrome, very slight = Nikasil, strong = iron liners.

Sitting around unused is the worst thing for chrome bores. Running an engine so equipped after a long period of storage will lead to rapid delamination/flaking of the chrome. There is no "if" it will happen, only "when". Best to get rid of the chrome bores a.s.a.p.
Charlie

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2021, 11:26:19 AM »
on the subject of petcocks, be aware if you buy the reproduction 'sugar cube' petcocks, they will leak in short order.  MG Cycle sells an adapter ring/insert that fits a later ('Tonti') Guzzi petcock to the Loopframe tank, this is the route I went.  Unfortunately, like a lot reproduction stuff, they are fiddly to fit. I had to drill mine out slightly and remove the screen. I put inline fuel filters further down the way in the fuel lines and had no problems.
Chad (Shadrach) in Asheville NC
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Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2021, 09:44:13 PM »
Looks like I got lucky, found GILARDONI stamped on the bottom of the head! ;)

I remember being worried about my cylinders being chromed. Some paperwork I had from when the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner said they were chrome. So dropping the pan one day to check for flakes I looked up and saw the word GILARDONI cast into the bottom of the cylinder casting. Wow what's a relief that was! Maybe you will get lucky too.

-AJ

Offline AJ Huff

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2021, 10:04:59 PM »
Sweet! <High Five>

-AJ
'71 Ambassador
'01 California Special
'05 Road King
MGNOC# L-753

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2021, 10:19:46 PM »
OK thanks. I've been wondering about this. The bike came with some petcocks which might be original (?), and there are already fuel filters after that. Do I need to worry about adding a screen to these petcocks if there is a filter in place downstream? Here's picture of the petcocks that came with the bike, which PO said should be fine.

on the subject of petcocks, be aware if you buy the reproduction 'sugar cube' petcocks, they will leak in short order.  MG Cycle sells an adapter ring/insert that fits a later ('Tonti') Guzzi petcock to the Loopframe tank, this is the route I went.  Unfortunately, like a lot reproduction stuff, they are fiddly to fit. I had to drill mine out slightly and remove the screen. I put inline fuel filters further down the way in the fuel lines and had no problems.



Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2021, 11:04:37 PM »
You are missing the brackets that go between the frame and exhaust header they are there in picture No 14

Thanks! But hmmm, trying to figure out what you mean by this? Could you possibly post a picture of what it should look like in place?

How was it stored all those years, look at the tire date code, post it back here they may be ok for a while if it wasn't left in the sun.

Stored in garage I believe. I forgot to take picture of tire date code, will try to do that tomorrow.

Just drop the float bowls off, nut at the bottom you will soon se if they are gummed up, the jets are all accessible right there, you may have to rotate the carbs slightly to get the bowl off.

I couldn't get bottoms off, even trying to twist. Here's a picture with bowls a max. opening/twist:



« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 11:06:09 PM by demet »

Offline normzone

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2021, 11:32:15 PM »
"cosmetically presentable" ?

Please don't touch a thing ... I'm worshipping from afar, memories of my first Guzzi ...
That's the combustion chamber of the turbo shaft. It is supposed to be on fire. You just don't usually see it but the case and fairing fell off.

Offline Tom H

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2021, 11:53:26 PM »
Your petcocks are the Tonti style with the Loop tank adapter. The only question is if the rubber gasket in them doesn't leak?

To remove the float bowl. You need to loosen the clamp on the carb to manifold, then rotate the carb and the bowl will easily come off. If I'm seeing the picture right. The floats look a bit grungy. The rest of the guts probably need a cleaning as well. Before you just tighten up the bowl and call it good. Check the O ring that seals the bowl. As long as it's in place and no cracks, it "should" be OK?? if you want to get it running. Always check for weeps/leaks!!

Congrats on the updates cylinders!!

Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo V1000
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2021, 05:11:04 AM »

Thanks! But hmmm, trying to figure out what you mean by this? Could you possibly post a picture of what it should look like in place?
 
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN1vKW2qDfPQ4G2_Y3y5VZB1QFFaFLWDk3isGmtnx9LuxswaZQsmy9E8i-V-D2NUQ/photo/AF1QipO3CQ3lCE0r5SNsod-E4ezRj1CdieLJqSsNrDIO?key=dllJVk9mdW9hSlFyRWZ0Q0Nqb0NMV19QUnFkeWl3
Those two clamps go between the lower frame rails and the header pipe just back from the sump, they take the strain off the connection st the head. I can't snap a picture, my bike didn't have them so I used a worm drive clip with a spacer.

Re Petcocks, you said the tank was re-lined so it should be ok with an in-line filter. Actually there is one where the banjo bolts onto the carbs but its quite tiny and not easy to get at.
You should have a crossover sort of X piece that allows you to run with just one petcock open leaving some reserve in the other side.
My bike came with the original sugar cube style which I rebuilt with kits, they are 10 years without leaking. I think the barrel nut on yours is a Left & Right hand thread that allows you to line them up once threaded into the tank.

Congratulations on the Gilodonis, it will have new pistons and rings as well, came with the kit, you should be set for the next 100k miles at least.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 05:36:09 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
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Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2021, 05:22:27 AM »
OK thanks. I've been wondering about this. The bike came with some petcocks which might be original (?), and there are already fuel filters after that. Do I need to worry about adding a screen to these petcocks if there is a filter in place downstream? Here's picture of the petcocks that came with the bike, which PO said should be fine.




Yeah those are later petcocks with the adapter ring. I dont believe you need petcock screens if you have in-line fuel filters
Chad (Shadrach) in Asheville NC
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2007 Breva 1100 (Sport 1200 tribute)

Offline vintagehoarder

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2021, 10:14:57 AM »
Congratulations!!  There is something about a loop[ frame Guzzi that can't be explained.  I have only had mine a few months, had the cylinders redone, rebuilt the carbs, tuned, installed a new Greg Bender wiring harness and since then have been just riding the heck out it and the other 10 bikes in garage have just been sitting. I love this thing. Good luck!

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Offline John A

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2021, 10:35:57 AM »
To get the bowls off with the carbs in place you will need to rotate the carbs. They are usually stuck and can be very hard to turn. With the clamps loose use light penetrating oil, I like to use diesel fuel if I have it, on the area under the clamp. Heat the area with a heat gun. Take an appropriate size block of wood that spans the square portion. What you are trying to do is apply force across the corners.  Tap on on the wood while holding it against the carb top not too high with a slightly heavy hammer carefully so you don’t deform the carb body. I would put the bowls back on loosely for this just so they don’t hang up on anything . Use a large hammer to move things, use a small hammer to form things. Be careful because you could hurt the carb body. If they are super stuck you can make a piece of wood to fit inside in place of the slide to support the square shape but I’ve not had to do that. They are usually easier to rotate after breaking them loose.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 08:13:54 AM by John A »
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Offline Tom H

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2021, 11:34:51 AM »
I was looking at the petcocks again. I think they are missing the tube that is used for the main, then when on reserve, the fuel goes straight into the petcock.

Also, I think one of them has been apart. IIRR the lever should not be able to rotate to where it is.

Tom
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1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
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Offline John A

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2021, 09:50:41 PM »
You can make a standpipe with tubing
John
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Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2021, 11:14:57 PM »
Ok thanks I will look into adding a tube for the main, thanks! As far as the lever position, are you sure? It looks to me like in my picture one lever is at 'ON' and the other is on "RES'. This is same as my R90/6, lever goes horizontal to stop fuel and either up or down for main/reserve. What am I missing?

I was looking at the petcocks again. I think they are missing the tube that is used for the main, then when on reserve, the fuel goes straight into the petcock.

Also, I think one of them has been apart. IIRR the lever should not be able to rotate to where it is.

Tom

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2021, 11:24:12 PM »
OK I see what you mean now about the exhaust brackets. Seems like they are missing on lots of bikes, but I will add mine back, thanks!

And yes, I'm psyched about the cylinder bores/pistons, 100K sounds good to me ;-)

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN1vKW2qDfPQ4G2_Y3y5VZB1QFFaFLWDk3isGmtnx9LuxswaZQsmy9E8i-V-D2NUQ/photo/AF1QipO3CQ3lCE0r5SNsod-E4ezRj1CdieLJqSsNrDIO?key=dllJVk9mdW9hSlFyRWZ0Q0Nqb0NMV19QUnFkeWl3
Those two clamps go between the lower frame rails and the header pipe just back from the sump, they take the strain off the connection st the head. I can't snap a picture, my bike didn't have them so I used a worm drive clip with a spacer.

Re Petcocks, you said the tank was re-lined so it should be ok with an in-line filter. Actually there is one where the banjo bolts onto the carbs but its quite tiny and not easy to get at.
You should have a crossover sort of X piece that allows you to run with just one petcock open leaving some reserve in the other side.
My bike came with the original sugar cube style which I rebuilt with kits, they are 10 years without leaking. I think the barrel nut on yours is a Left & Right hand thread that allows you to line them up once threaded into the tank.

Congratulations on the Gilodonis, it will have new pistons and rings as well, came with the kit, you should be set for the next 100k miles at least.

Offline Tom H

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2021, 04:27:46 PM »





The look to be the same as what I have. The one on the right is the way they normally are, down, left and right. The one on the left has the lever installed so the lever will go up, left and right.

Installed this way, the marks for off/on/res may be backward??

My LH one is a little close to the top of the carb, makes it a bit hard to turn. Maybe I need to install my lever to face up?

Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo V1000
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2021, 03:06:17 PM »
I guess what I don't understand is that if ON and RES. are 180-degrees (up and down) from each other, you need to be able to turn lever to both. And horizontal would be off. I'm probably missing something? I'll look more closely at them this afternoon

The look to be the same as what I have. The one on the right is the way they normally are, down, left and right. The one on the left has the lever installed so the lever will go up, left and right.

Installed this way, the marks for off/on/res may be backward??

My LH one is a little close to the top of the carb, makes it a bit hard to turn. Maybe I need to install my lever to face up?

Tom

Offline Cam3512

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2021, 09:51:41 AM »
So the tank currently has no petcocks?  If so, I’d spring for some new (correct) ones, with new fuel lines.

Gas staying on the INSIDE is kinda important.
Cam in NJ
'67 Stornello Scrambler
'71 Ambo Police
'74 V7 Sport
‘20 V85TT

http://mgnocnj.forumotion.com

 

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