oil sump glued shut

[webmost]

2000 Jackal new to me last summer. Have not ridden it that much. Want to change oil and filter. Two probs:

• carbon bits
• Can't get the sump off

Here some pics of the carbon bits. First, on the drain plug:


Next, when I wipe them off the plug:


These nuggets are friable and black all thru. No metal filings. Close as I can surmise, the DPO musta used cheapo oil that coked up. This means to me I now must insist on replacing the filter and cleaning any screen that might be in there. Then I'll put in some high detergent stuff, run 500 to flush, replace, and repeat. Maybe some Seafoam or whatever. Maybe put in the good oil around the third change.

So it's essential I get the sump off.

Sump won't budge. Been whacking with my rubber mallet. Been prying at what looks like pry-me tabs molded into the sump, two on the starboard side and one on the port. No luck. Don't want to break something.

I figure someone here may have had a stuck sump. Whattaya do? It's just the socket head screws around the perimeter, right? Or have I missed a mystery fastener?

TIA

[n3303j]

I think you will find another pair of Allen screws that are under the pan and NOT on the perimeter. They ensure proper contact for some mid pan oil passages to the filter

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Do you have all 18 bolts out? 14 around the outside perimeter, 2 on the bottom of the pan rear right corner, 2 on the bottom of the pan front center.

I can't remember if the Jackal has the deep pan or shallow pan with spacer. If it has a spacer, you can wedge a prybar in between a "nub" that sticks out and the bellhousing.

[guzzisteve]

There are 2 long 10mm head on oil passageway in front and 2 in the back almost midway across. So, 4 more.

Scroll down to Cali 97-03  shop manual
http://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1100/

[Chuck in Indiana]

The carbon doesn't worry me. Are you sure you have *all* the bolts out, including the four that are *not* around the periphery?
Don't pry..

Never mind.. 3 have beat me to it. 

[webmost]

I  have  14 out. I'll look for 4 more.

[oldbike54]

I  have  14 out. I'll look for 4 more.

 Never hurts to read the instructions . Oh , they aren't Allen head , middle right front quadrant of the sump .

 Dusty

[Wayne Orwig]

I think that those chunks are related to the crankcase vent system, using the frame. I think it is bits of rust that gather together. I see it often.
Yep, more bolts.

[webmost]

Never hurts to read the instructions . Oh , they aren't Allen head , middle right front quadrant of the sump .

 Dusty

Oh, I read instructions alright. Apparently, I just did not read THE instructions is all. What I read said allen head cap screws around the perimeter. With pictures.

So. What a day. I rode to the post office at eight, took the old lady to breakfast, then figured I'd get an oil change out of the way before the rest of my chores. Bullshit. The chore list is toast today. Five o'clock before I got done. Holy Hannah. I can swap oil in Biffy Bullfrog in 20 minutes. Five minutes of that twenty is surfing the garage TV remote looking for MMA, lighting a cigar. scratching the dog, and popping the top off a barley pop. Zero is wasted looking for THE instructions. I've owned bikes with maintenance quirks. My brick Ocelot took 25 minutes, cause there's a hatch in the bottom of the sump you remove to get at the filter. My Scout Sopowa you gotta remove the horn which hangs in the way of the oil filter. But this, this is no quirk. This is an effin disaster. Makes you want to buy a ticket to Italy just to kick some ass. No wonder people install a whole new sump pan. What was Guido thinking here? Much of my time was carefully scraping gasket off the sump, then laying on my back another hour and a half scraping gasket off the engine. Got a pretty good view of the crank, I can tell you that. Four razor blade job. In this much time I could pull an airhead apart and lube the infamous splines.

Good news: not much coke inside at all. Some washed out of the filter when I swapped that. Odd news: No coke whatever in the screen. You would think that would be the place those pebbles would get trapped. No notion what's up with why the screen didn't catch them before they hit the filter. Totally baffled why these coke bits wound up adhered to the drain plug. That makes no sense.

Ran thru four old T-shirts wiping oil and coke bits and gasket scrapings & what not. Do not attempt this oil change without a plenitude of rags. All goddam day, fer cryin out loud.

Now I gotta go shower to get the oil smell off me.

[guzzi4me]

At least now you know how to get the sump off!

It doesn't need to be done every oil change. I change my Castrol dino oil every 3k to 3.5k miles and filter every third time.

My Jackal I sold is well over 100k now and my Giada just passed 98k. This schedule seems to work for me.

It is fun looking up her skirt during filter changes though!!

If I change the pan gasket I just coat it with a light film of oil during installation. Might change the gasket every 8th or 9th filter change....

Ride safe and often...

Jeff

[oldbike54]

 Trust me Jeff , WELL over 100,000 miles on the Black Jackal now 

 Dusty

[Chuck in Indiana]

Well, now you know how to do it. 

took the old lady to breakfast,

sniff.. well.. for the proper remittance, I *might* not tell her what you said. This could be big trouble brewing, not even remotely like changing the filter on a Guzzi..

Good news: not much coke inside at all.

I tole you..

Much of my time was carefully scraping gasket off the sump, then laying on my back another hour and a half scraping gasket off the engine. Got a pretty good view of the crank, I can tell you that. Four razor blade job. In this much time I could pull an airhead apart and lube the infamous splines.

Well... now you can do it right. Don't use any gasket goo. Just oil on one side. Gasket will last forever. Probably some Airhead guy did it the last time. 

[Tom]

Now ride it for 3K miles.  Dump the oil and replace.  As said before change filter on the 3rd time.  You could probably go 4 times.  Don't forget the hose clamp.   

[webmost]

Now ride it for 3K miles.  Dump the oil and replace.  As said before change filter on the 3rd time.  You could probably go 4 times.  Don't forget the hose clamp.   

HOSE CLAMP! WHAT HOSE CLAMP!

I spose that's some sort of Guzzi snipe hunt, innit?

[Tom]

Much discussion on a hose clamp around the oil filter.  Pros & Cons. It's in there stored in with tire, oil and seat threads.

[Rich A]

HOSE CLAMP! WHAT HOSE CLAMP!

I spose that's some sort of Guzzi snipe hunt, innit?

No, it's real. Goes around the filter--keeps it from unscrewing, and good insurance, I think. Do a search.

Rich A

[Chuck in Indiana]

^^^^^
It's there because of the stupid UFI manufacturing issues with gaskets.. IMHO. I quit using them a long time ago.

[pehayes]

Hate to ask.  Did you happen to use any sealant on the sump gasket?  I hope NOT.  If you coat the new gasket with quality grease, you can drop and re-install the sump without damaging the gasket.  However, ALWAYS  have a spare gasket on hand just in case it does get damaged.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[bmc5733946]

I have learned to have sump gaskets on hand, that way I never need them, same with valve cover gaskets.

Brian

[normzone]

" Makes you want to buy a ticket to Italy just to kick some ass. "

Yeah, I know what you mean. I work in QA - in my fantasy I sit in on Guzzi factory design review meetings with a translator, and periodically bring the meeting to a halt with an appropriate question.

[fotoguzzi]

  What was Guido thinking here? 

Put the filter where the dirty oil is..  actually it was Umberto and Giulio .

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Put the filter where the dirty oil is..  actually it was Umberto and Giulio .

Don't think you can blame those guys. Most likely it was Lino Tonti.

[Kent in Upstate NY]

The last time I changed the filter I installed a hose clamp. I just dropped the sump to install Harper's outsider and I found the my filter was loose. If not for the clamp it might have let go completely.

[fotoguzzi]

Don't think you can blame those guys. Most likely it was Lino Tonti.

Oh yeah I think your right, the old couple forgot to incorporate a filter at all..

Lino Tonti !

w/Mike Hailwood

[Two Checks]

Tonti designed the frame, Carcano designed the engine.

[pete roper]

Filter in the sump was never an issue for me. I can't see why people get all out of shape over it!

You want Stupid? Try looking at changing the oil filter on a Crapponord!

It was suggested on another board I frequent that perhaps there was a need for a 'Special Snowflake' icon.

Pete

[Huzo]

I must be an insensitive bastard Webmost. Seems I'm not feeling the love here...

[Mr Revhead]

Who ever mentioned the swarf from the frame/breather will be spot on I reckon. I went through some drames becasue I panilced when finding metal in the sump!
If it stuck to the magnet, it's metallic.
As mentioned smear the gasket with oil, reuse. Hoseclamp on the sump and ride away 

It is a pity Guzzi decided the Calis didn't need a sump like the V11 sport bikes etc, it IS a PITA taking the sump off so often.

[chuck peterson]

 

Dawn rises...Chisels, hammers, and a sazall litter the garage floor..."took all night, but boy these Italian  bikes are hard to work on...I'll just use some Locktite to put it back on to keep the scar marks from leaking..."

 

[kevdog3019]

If it weren't for my Guzzi's I wouldn't appreciate my Honda maintenance (lack thereof) so much.