Cold-Blooded 2013 V7R

[Cam3512]

Well, I made contact with my "local" dealer (actually some 55 miles away) and I inquired if they would cover this under warranty, since I'm only a few days out of my original warranty period. They checked with Guzzi, and Guzzi said no. So, tomorrow, I'm going to call Guzzi myself and I'm hoping to get some coverage. I understand the issue of the fuel map being suspect, but I can't wrap my head around that being the true issue. Fuel maps don't just "go bad." The bike is behaving like it's not fuel injected, but rather carburated, running cold with no choke - until it warms up (3-4 minutes) and then it runs perfectly.

Previous to this, I always started, and rode right off. No warm up time, just like my BMWs. Sure, I don't hammer on her until she's warmed up a bit, but there was none of this stumbling and stalling. Again, I admit my ignorance of Guzzis, but I did have a friend with a Harley once which exhibited a similar issue. Turns out a sensor was bad, leading the ECU in that bike to fail to richen up the mixture while it was cold. Sounds EXACTLY like what is happening here.

Let's see what Guzzi says tomorrow re coverage. It's worth trying, since I'm so close to warranty period, AND I have gotten their bike in the press a time or two....

-MKL

You're from NJ, correct?  Who are you considering your "local" dealer?

[Kev m]

Shyte, I didn't realize he was local...

[ruote]

2014 V7R, new map
One of the spark plug caps (the stock ones) was not screwed onto the wire tight enough. 
Tightened it, checked the other (OK).
The computer relearned its proper calibrations in about 50 miles, just like Larry said it would.

[ajwood]

My local Guzzi dealmaker had me (as a test) briefly open the gas cap on shutdown then briefly before startup. It was much better and didn't require the customary hold-open-throttle-to-1500rpm for 1 minute trick.
Three weeks ago, as I put on 300-600 a day when riding 8 states over and back, it started better and better. The worse the tappets (needed tune-up) sounded, the better it started.
86 or 87 octane seemed to do better on the interstates but in-town performance suffered until 91-93 octane fill-up for in town riding. Methanol blends were uncharted territory and were only used as an entrance ramp would be less than 1000 feet away. Lowest octane did the best starting.
Then I gets back home and gives dealer big money for 6,000 mile going-over. Stoplight start-outs are now smooth and it winds out like a crotch rocket. But the cold and hot starts are back to their evil-ness with my hand glued to the throttle grip until it idles well enough to pull away in about 35 seconds.
It still has gas in it from a truck stop in New Mexico from 12 days ago so I'm going to put fresh in when the rain quits.

2015  V7S (5-Speed)

[moshe_levy]

Yes, I'm in Jersey (unfortunately.) The gas is relatively fresh, about 4 weeks old.

I called Guzzi and they explained that they do not reimburse customers directly, but rather take direction from the dealers as to the cause, and then make a determination. My "local" dealer is Fast By Ferracci in PA. There is another dealer in NJ about the same distance away called the "Motorcycle Mall," a multi-brand shop, but when I went there I was wholly unimpressed with the atmosphere. (I bought the bike at Redline in VA.)

So today I will make an appointment with Ferracci, go down there and wait while it's diagnosed, and then call my point of contact at Guzzi to ask again for coverage. They seemed helpful enough on the phone - will keep you updated.

(Checked the spark plugs and caps - all tight and good on that front.)

-MKL

[moshe_levy]

The saga is over, and I must say, I'm feeling a tad ripped off.

I took the bike to Ferracci as previously discussed. To their credit, they immediately tried to upload a new map and send me on my way, but that didn't make any difference, so they gave me a loaner and told me they'd need more time.

A week went by and I called to check on the bike, and they told me it was the Throttle Position Sensor, and that they were working with Guzzi for goodwill reimbursement.

Then another week went by with no news, so I called and was told they were working on it, negotiating with Guzzi.

Then another 3-4 days went by, and they called and said that actually, it was the map and some bad gas. How, pray tell, does a map "go bad" and why would bad gas only affect the bike when cold? The mystery deepens. But, the bike was ready for pickup.

I arrived and was told that the tech (Ferracci himself, apparently) had spent an hour diagnosing the problem and two hours fixing it. The fix, according to the invoice, was 2 fresh gallons of gas, two new spark plugs, another map reload, and a "TPS reset," for a total of $400.00. Naturally, none of it covered under goodwill.

I paid and left, because, really, what choice do I have? There aren't other dealers around here.....

That said, the bike does run very well now - just like it used to before all this started. I'm skeptical of a need for plugs after 1,800 miles, and I'm also skeptical of "bad gas" from my local BP station that runs a great deal of traffic through it daily. Must've been the map. 3 hours of labor for a map...

Last week, I ordered my "Guzzi Oil Change Kit" from AF1 racing for the impending winter storage. I always put the Goose away when it gets cold outside, around Thanksgiving. I keep the BMW out all year, but the Guzzi is far too pretty to expose to the elements.

-MKL

[Kev m]

The saga is over, and I must say, I'm feeling a tad ripped off.

I took the bike to Ferracci as previously discussed. To their credit, they tried to upload a new map and send me on my way, but that didn't make any difference, so they gave me a loaner and told me they'd need more time.

A week went by and I called to check on the bike, and they told me it was the Throttle Position Sensor, and that they were working with Guzzi for goodwill reimbursement.

Then another week went by with no news, so I called and was told they were working on it, negotiating with Guzzi.

Then another few days went by, and they called and said that actually, it was the map and some bad gas. How, pray tell, does a map "go bad" and why would bad gas only affect the bike when cold? The mystery deepens. The bike was ready for pickup.

I arrived and was told that the tech (Ferracci himself, apparently) had spent an hour diagnosing the problem and two hours fixing it. The fix, according to the invoice, was 2 fresh gallons of gas, two new spark plugs, another map reload, and a "TPS reset," for a total of $400.00. Naturally, none of it covered under goodwill.

I paid and left, because, really, what choice do I have? There aren't other dealers around here, but next time when I need service, I may venture farther away. I'm not the type to scream and yell when paying my bill, but this fix and this bill make little sense to me.

-MKL

Well, over the years we have tried to warn people on this board about Ferracci.

If I'd seen your answer about him being your dealer sooner I would have repeated the warning and suggested another.

There IS ANOTHER DEALER and he's just a little further away - Eurosports in Coopersburg PA.

Massimo (service writer) and his team of techs seem to actually give a crap and have some knowledge about these bikes.

I'm starting to think this is Ferracci's MO, as he essentially did the same thing to me on the Breva 1100 years ago). They always claim the old man himself worked on it (SURE, I'm sure the old man was stupid enough to get my valve cover gaskets baked on because he didn't oil/grease them before installation).

I brought my B11 to him years ago when it was pinging to ask for diagnosis. He told me it needed valves adjusted and a gave it a dyno run (for way too much money). The valves were basically the same as I set them (I knew they were fine but agreed just so he would look further into it), but then it took me hours to scrape off the NEW gaskets that were baked on and the bike still pinged freely.

Anyway, how is it running now? Keep an eye on it. If it starts to cold stumble again, try Pete's warm it up without touching the throttle procedure.

[moshe_levy]

It's running perfectly. My lesson re Ferracci was learned, and I would gladly travel a bit farther to the other dealer next time. Actually, it's within about 15 miles, so no biggie..... Thanks!

-MKL

[Kev m]

It's running perfectly.

 

[Loftness]

How many miles did they put on the bike while it was there?  (curious)

[lucydad]

Little Goose is always a little cold blooded for about a minute or two.  I simply hold RPM at 3000, when it naturally changes pitch I gradually roll off to a smooth idle.  I let her idle for maybe 30 seconds--and we are off.  Maybe these bikes like to be blown out like mom's old Ford Galaxy 500 with the big V8 390 and 4 barrel carburetor?  Once or twice I have had hot start issues, but rarely.  Dunno if MPH ever installed any updated maps on my bike. 

[Vasco DG]

As we come into summer I'm still chasing this fuelling issue with Craig Clancy's V7-II. I think at least in part the 'Warm Start', (As opposed to cold or hot start.) issue is down to that shitty plastic ETS holder.

The new V7's have lots of finning, when they are parked they cool quickly but not as quick as the plastic holder. When the engine is re-started after a *Shortish* period of time the detected engine temp and the actual engine temp may be wildly different. It's similar to the old problem with earlier Calis and V11's that have much higher fuel consumption in winter due to lousy ETS signals.

With Craig's bike I've packed the holder with thermal paste. Will this help? I have no idea but he'll let us know I'm sure. The fact that the stepper motor on the MUIG-3 is pretty crude doesn't help I'm sure.

Pete

[Kev m]

Thing is Pete, my V7 has always restarted fine after shorter stops. It's if I stop for an hour or two, or overnight that the child start is rough.

Could still be sensor related, but maybe over fueling due to rich fueling from constantly thinking it's cooler than it is???

[Cam3512]

FBF dyno'd my Calvin in an attempt to cure the shitty closed-loop fueling.  Did NOTHING, and they charged me 1/2 hour service to remove my bags because they were too WIDE for the dyno booth.  Each bag is held on by three acorn nuts that just need to be loosened to lift the bags off.  I could have done same in 1 minute in their parking lot.  But the kicker is the protection bars that wrap underneath the bags stay in place, and they extend out WIDER than the bags!  $400 later my arse was bleeding and the bike never ran right until Todd @ GuzziTech's re-flash.

Burned once, shame on them.  Burned twice.....

[Kev m]

FBF dyno'd my Calvin in an attempt to cure the shitty closed-loop fueling.  Did NOTHING, and they charged me 1/2 hour service to remove my bags because they were too WIDE for the dyno booth.  Each bag is held on by three acorn nuts that just need to be loosened to lift the bags off.  I could have done same in 1 minute in their parking lot.  But the kicker is the protection bars that wrap underneath the bags stay in place, and they extend out WIDER than the bags!  $400 later my arse was bleeding and the bike never ran right until Todd @ GuzziTech's re-flash.

Burned once, shame on them.  Burned twice.....

Yup, like I said, their MO.

[moshe_levy]

How many miles did they put on the bike while it was there?  (curious)

They claim 12. I have no idea why. The problem surfaced only at cold startup, but.... I learned my lesson. I don't think I'll be going there again.

-MKL

[davedel44]

Blessed living near Houston.  MPH is my copilot.

BTW 1/2 hour labor for remap covered by warrenty.

Dave
Galveston

[FerracciService]

Moshe,
     Sorry you had an unpleasant experience at Fast by Ferracci. We tried everything to have your issue covered under a goodwill warranty. Unfortunately the decision was out of our hands. If you have any issues you can call Piaggio/Moto Guzzi customer service and discuss this with them, they might be able to help you further. Phone: 877-974-2444 or e-mail: CustomerCare@piaggiogroupamericas.com

[kingoffleece]

Jim Hamlin in Bethel, CT.  Too far for you?