Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: radguzzi on January 25, 2015, 07:20:54 PM
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After some early morning motorcycle maintenance I went out geocaching this fine Sunday, I was headed back to the barn, stopped at a traffic light one half mile from home, V11 Cali Jackal in neutral as is always my practice and then Whammm..
In one instance I was thrown from my mount and over onto the left side rolling away from the motorcycle.
Stupid f'n broad behind me in a 2014 Camaro rammed into me good... Damn. Had I been in gear, I would have had my hands on the bars, at least the left side and I may have been propelled into crossing traffic..! :o
As I gathered my thoughts about what just happened, I rolled over into the next lane which I was already occupying half of, I got up and could not hold my tongue and I was less than understanding as I tore her a new one.
I finally did calm the adrenalin rush, exchange information and I told her I would be in touch.
There is some tightness in my lower back and left shoulder where I landed after the hit, I continued home and went out for some exercise to keep myself loosened up. when I got back I hit the hot tub for a bit, might go back again later...
In California, if there is no personal injury that requires an ambulance there is not need to have police present, I called from the scene before letting the asshat go.
The way she hit the motorcycle the right side National Cycles saddle bag is toast, tore the mount free and I can probably repair it but geez... ::(
Are the NC bags still in production...?
I had not noticed the clutch lever being broken off at the pivot. I ordered a replacement from Gordon to be rushed in a day or so.
A nice couple behind the idiot jumped right out of their Dodge truck and came to ask if I was ok and all that, helped pick up the motorcycle, actually, I was not much help, they offered their info as well in the event that I would need a witness to the incident.
What an odd feeling, sitting there and boom doing a backwards summersault, didn't know I could do that...! Knocked the magnetic tank bag right off and it landed ten feet away.
Anyway, I have done a fairly thorough check for other damage and the Guzzi actually faired pretty well.
Be careful out there…
Best,
Rob
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That sucks, Rob. Glad you are relatively ok and the bike can be fixed. Was she texting, on the phone or flat out just "didn't see" you?
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Holee Christ, that very nearly happened to me one night, going home from work on my Suzuki ... I heard screeching tires, looked in the mirror, and two boneheads in a small Oldsmobile were sliding up to my rear fender. I still get a bit shaky thinking about it. Glad you were able to get back up on two legs, not a "lottery" you want to win.
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Yuck. Glad you're okay. Sounds like the saddlebox saved the bike.
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Exercise after getting nailed from behind and thrown from your bike is the last thing you need to do. After trauma the body hurts and needs to repair and during that time you do less not more. I would have gone to the ER and had my back x-rayed just to make sure. :beat_horse
I truly hope you are OK but do not ignore any lingering pain or sharp pain. Just coming from a guy who has treated lots of trauma in a major medical center.
Not to mention I am also a guy who low sided his Mille at 45 MPH in a gravel patch at apex of a curve. I went to the hospital I worked that morning in an ambulance: had whip lash for 2 months.
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wow. Glad you're well enough to write this.
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I feel your pain brother. This is one of the reasons I'm nervous about doing a tour of Socal. It was scary enough for me to take the trailer down to Malibu to pick up my Griso. The highway is so bad the trailer hitch pin came undone. I picked up a hardened bolt and double nuts as a repair for the trip back.
Take it easy and remember to medicate. After I my 60th birthday I seem to injure myself more and take a looong time to heal.
As Oddball would say, think positive and keep those good waves going.
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Exercise after getting nailed from behind and thrown from your bike is the last thing you need to do. After trauma the body hurts and needs to repair and during that time you do less not more. I would have gone to the ER and had my back x-rayed just to make sure. :beat_horse
I truly hope you are OK but do not ignore any lingering pain or sharp pain. Just coming from a guy who has treated lots of trauma in a major medical center.
Not to mention I am also a guy who low sided his Mille at 45 MPH in a gravel patch at apex of a curve. I went to the hospital I worked that morning in an ambulance: had whip lash for 2 months.
:+1
Old man, you're going to be hurting in the morning! It's always worse the next day .... Might better plan on a trip to the doctor tomorrow for painkillers if not Xrays .....
Sock it to the woman who hit you. No excuse for that .....
Lannis
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Sorry to hear that Rob. I try to make sure I'm not the first at a light and if I am, I stay towards one side away from the center and in gear checking my mirrors. If someone comes up quick, hopefully I can pull forward. Dang. I think those bags are still being sold. Check ebay?
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Dammit....I've been really ended on a bike...years ago. Ory to read you did too!
Any way of knowing if she might have been using a phone, or otherwise not engaged with situational driving??????
Scares hell out of me, all these folks multitasking their driving....so I wonder if that might have been a factor with yours??
Awfully glad to read you are OK!!!! But strongly advise you see your Doc....for the record.
Concerned,
Lee
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Sorry to hear Rob. While you're tearing her a new one, grab the cell phone to see if she was texting at the time of the hit. Probably was.
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Let me clarify "Exercise"... What I meant by that was to at least walk, not run a marathon and not lay down so as to stiffen up.
I went out geocaching a bit more after getting the Guzzi home and clearing my head of what just took place. It was jut light walking and driving in the car.
Yes, I will probably feel worse in the AM, I will decide whether to go for X-rays or at least a check up for the record.
I did ask (not very nicely I might add) whether the hitter was on the phone and she said no, I did not ask to see her cell.
On a more materialistic note, glad to hear that the cases are still being made, I would prefer a replacement vs. a repair.
Thanks all.
Best,
Rob
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Glad you're ok and I don't believe for a second she didn't see you.
Given the law you mentioned, I would have stayed down and waited for the cops to come.
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Given the law you mentioned, I would have stayed down and waited for the cops to come.
One the one hand, that's a tempting strategy to keep her on her toes and get her insurance company's mind right .... ~;
On the other hand, I wouldn't want to look like a modern soccer player ... touch them on the sleeve and they fall onto the ground in agony, rolling around clutching some body part and then limping off the pitch with someone helping them ..... (little girl emoticon here)
I think Rob's doing it right after all!
Lannis
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Riding an R1200GSA I get to see a lot of what happens inside cars and some SUVs. Lot of texting going on. I've even seen a cop texting while driving.
Scares the crap out of me.
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9 times out of 10 we, the victim automatically say we're OK if asked then how we are. That's before our body let's us know how badly we are REALLY hurt. If what happened to me(you) I would have let whatever happens play out, assuming the car driver that hit you has insurance. The more costly the incident, the better your case against her. ;)
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9 times out of 10 we, the victim automatically say we're OK if asked then how we are. That's before our body let's us know how badly we are REALLY hurt. If what happened to me(you) I would have let whatever happens play out, assuming the car driver that hit you has insurance. The more costly the incident, the better your case against her. ;) Since she rear ended you she's guilty no matter what.
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Heck the cop should have checked her phone.
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That both blows and sucks. Sorry to hear about it. Almost a year ago to the day my 2-day old Forester was rear-ended while I was stopped at a stop light, and I couldn't help but rip the woman who hit me a new one.
Rich A
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That both blows and sucks. Sorry to hear about it. Almost a year ago to the day my 2-day old Forester was rear-ended while I was stopped at a stop light, and I couldn't help but rip the woman who hit me a new one.
Rich A
Did you get a new 1 for replacement, or?
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So sorry to hear this, Rob. Get well, and hope it turns out ok!
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I had that in 1978 at the stop sign on an exit from I-5 in Washington.
I stopped completely without taking my feet off the pegs. There being no cars moving along to road I was entering, I was letting out the clutch and was slammed hard from behind. Acceleration forces pinned me onto the hood of the car that hit me as I heard the engine rev to gain speed. I could see my bike in the air out front doing an end over loop before crashing to the pavement. Realizing she had had an oops, the driver slammed on the brakes sending me
mighty mousing over my bike. When I stopped sliding I lay there feeling for broken bones. She instantly exited her car and squatted down putting her face close to mine and screaming, "I DID'NT SEE YOU". I think she believed that this phrase absolved her of all responsibility. She was a cute little 27 year old
and said she was on the way to a funeral. I asked, "Mine?"
About that time a young state trooper appeared, seeing a large biker on the ground he insisted I show all my registration and legalities why he tried to figure how fast I had been going when I backed into her. He never did check her for insurance although he did check mine.
It turned out later that she didn't have any. He did not ticket her for hitting me or running the stop sign. Being in a state of shock I did not notice these things. I guess it helps if you are a young attractive lady when dealing with a young state trooper.
The frame on my bike was bent, handlebars ditto, shift lever and such other small damage as could be expected. I suffered a cracked elbow but did not know it for several days.
I was on my way to report for duty on my new ship and as it was underway for most of the next three months I never had much chance to follow up on legalities.
What I learned was don't sign anything or make any statements while you are in shock. I had to threaten her with a lawsuit and criminal charges to get her to pay the repairs on the bike. She never did pay any medical expenses.
Since this was in the time before texting and cell phones, It is my guess that she intended to run the stop sign and was looking over her left shoulder as she did so.
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That both blows and sucks. Sorry to hear about it. Almost a year ago to the day my 2-day old Forester was rear-ended while I was stopped at a stop light, and I couldn't help but rip the woman who hit me a new one.
Rich A
I could not stop Rich, the more I talked in a caustic, I wanna rip you head off tone, the more I ranted. I was shaking badly and knew I really should give her a break and shut up but I just could not. I did finally calm down.
When I got up I was aware that my bare forearms (wearing a polo shirt) had hit the tarmac so I looked and I was surprised to see on light scrapes, no blood.
I announced out loud though that my back feels odd, I knew I had been jolted off the motorcycle.
Not being an athlete that can take a hit like that without some tightness and discomfort, I knew I would have some pain. Tomorrow will tell whether there are any real issues.
I told the hitter that I would get checked out and let her know how it shakes out.
Gave me a giggle later in the day to think that I now know what "ass over bandwagon" is...
::)
Edit: I found some National Cycles cases, used, not far from here, a couple more on eBay...
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Of course it's an old cliche that "it could've been worse", but any hit is NFG.
I ride daily on So. Cal. and I'm in neutral during most stops unless I know it's a short one, and checking mirrors when I can.
Good luck on getting the bike back to where it was.
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Sorry to hear about your luck. I understand the instant rage. I had a dummie heading head on into me so much so that I had to steer off the road and into a parking lot to avoid collision. When I turned around and confronted the lady at the stop sign all she kept screaming was "It's a one way". It in fact was not a one way to witch I replied and asked even the road were a one way (it was definitely not) would you just have run head on into me??? The answer is yes because she never strayed from the center of the road. All a got was a dumb look like she didn't get it and like I had done something wrong. It makes me mad to this day.
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Rob,
Not much to add except sorry for the mal-event, and hope your body is functioning without pain this morning. Bike can be fixed.
Coulda been a lot worse. Definitely one of the worst scenarios in Houston. Blessings.
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Accidents are unfortunate, and I believe most are preventable. I use every instance to learn more about prevention, and knowing more about this accident would be helpful.
Rob, how is it possible that you were sitting motionless in the roadway and not aware of vehicle approaching from the rear?
Do you regularly ride in a polo shirt?
Ciao,
Dick
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WTH is it with people hitting Jackals, that's at least the second in less than a year on this board alone... ugh...
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Exercise after getting nailed from behind and thrown from your bike is the last thing you need to do. After trauma the body hurts and needs to repair and during that time you do less not more. I would have gone to the ER and had my back x-rayed just to make sure. :beat_horse
I truly hope you are OK but do not ignore any lingering pain or sharp pain. Just coming from a guy who has treated lots of trauma in a major medical center.
Not to mention I am also a guy who low sided his Mille at 45 MPH in a gravel patch at apex of a curve. I went to the hospital I worked that morning in an ambulance: had whip lash for 2 months.
This!!!!! Glad you faired relatively well. I would be interested in what she had to say.
No, let me guess, "I didn't see you."
Well, I guess that's ok, she's only human ::(
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It can a few days for all the symptoms to manifest themselves after an injury. I was rear ended in an 11 car pile, I was the last car hit from behind by a loaded car hauler. I felt sore afterward, but within a few days I started having loss of feeling in my leg and severe neck and lower back pain. went to Dr, and I have several herniated discs.
Dr wanted to operate, but I opted for therapy, took almost 3 years and several epidurals in the neck to control the pain, but it is better now, not like before the accident but I can function. Still took another year to get the insurance to cover the bills, they only wanted to cover my out of pocket expenses.
Just remember, if you collect any money from the driver your insurance will want all their money back that they spent on getting you healed. They will get it from you or the driver, so watch yourself with the insurance lawyers.
Old Head
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But for the grace of God as last summer in Wichita at a stop light a car rear ended the vehicle just back of me a bit in the next lane at around 50ph. I though an IED had gone off. The car that did the hitting then veered into the next lane to my right hitting another car. I could feel and hear debris hitting my helmet and leather jacket. Ended up with a ruined front tire from the debris. I could have been squashed like a bug.
GliderJohn
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Two years ago I had was riding a Kawasaki C-14 and I pulled over in a parking lot of a body shop to put on a jacket. Back on the bike I was waiting for traffic to clear and I guy backed into me with a lot of force. I fell to the side and as I did my boot caught between the exhaust and the ground. As the bike fell I was slapped to the ground like a fly swatter. I was under the bike and the guys from the shop came out to lift the bike from on top of me. We exchanged info and the guy was very sorry. I rode home 300 miles and called the insurance company and started a claim. I was beat up pretty good and they suggested the emergency room but I went to the doc the next day. I should have gone to the emergency room because I had 3 broken ribs. I am not one to manufacturer pain and peril to boost an insurance claim but suggest a thorough exam. I finally went to get X-Rays two weeks after and when the pictures came up on the docs PC he just kept looking at me and back the the screen and told me he was amazed I was still mobile. The insurance company paid for the bike and I replaced the parts myself, the paid for the chiropractor and gave me a few thousand to cover my time off work but if I had gone to the emergency room I would have been in a much better place legally to collect money for pain and suffering, not that that is my style. I think the accident still affects me today.
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Glad you're ok. I was tagged in the rear in '86 by a guy coming off third shift. He fell asleep at the stop light and rolled into me. Just broke out the tail light and bought me a new one. He was in a Camaro also.
Fwiw, according to The Hurt Report, published back around '80 or so, rear end collisions account for 10% of motorcycle accidents. Of course that was way before texting, in-dash DVD or streaming movie players.
Tobit
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Sorry to hear this news. Go to the doctor! Should probably get Xrays to be sure there are no bone issues cracked or broken. Take pictures of any bruising on your body. Glad you weren't seriously injured. You may want your lawyer involved. Take care.
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Quote from racasy:
Rob, how is it possible that you were sitting motionless in the roadway and not aware of vehicle approaching from the rear?
In the incident that I describe I was in the left turn lane and there were three more lanes. One cannot watch them all at the same time and in my case the speed of the impacting car was so great it would have been a couple of seconds from seeing it bearing down until impact. It is a great idea to be aware but not possible to catch it all in all settings.
GliderJohn
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Given the law you mentioned, I would have stayed down and waited for the cops to come.
If I ever get hit hard enough to throw me off the bike (not just a tip over), I'm staying on the ground until the ambulance and police show up. I carry lots of under / uninsured coverage but I want a police report at the minimum if there's potential frame damage to me or the bike.
Hope you heal quickly.
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Sorry to hear this news. Go to the doctor! Should probably get Xrays to be sure there are no bone issues cracked or broken. Take pictures of any bruising on your body. Glad you weren't seriously injured. You may want your lawyer involved. Take care.
Get your ass into a medical facility now. If something related to this surfaces later, you want records. If you're flawless, it's great to be told that by a pro. I know you're aching this morning. I'll tag you by email.
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In 50+ years of riding only 2X have I heard brakes squealing behind me and to be safe I've put my bike in neutral into 1st gear and shot across the intersection, not even looking for oncoming traffic on the side roads. Haven't been rear ended yet.....except for that time I was behind a car next to a donut shop with 2 MC cops watching and this lady in front of me accidentally put her auto. car in reverse and when she hit the pedal to go forward she came back @ me on my 80cc Yamaha as I back pedaled as fast as I could and me and my bike ended up jammed under her trunk/gas tank! While the 2 cops watched in awe. P:) Luckily neither me or my bike got hurt much and I didn't even ream out the driver. :D That's when I was 20 something. Now I would respond differently. :wife:
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Accidents are unfortunate, and I believe most are preventable. I use every instance to learn more about prevention, and knowing more about this accident would be helpful.
Rob, how is it possible that you were sitting motionless in the roadway and not aware of vehicle approaching from the rear?
Do you regularly ride in a polo shirt?
Ciao,
Dick
I was going out to ride around a neighborhood a few miles from my place and do some geocaching in which I would be riding not more than a few blocks at a time and stopping to look for the cache.
Sunday morning traffic was light and it was a gorgeous sunny day.. I was feeling great. Right up until I wasn't.
Get your ass into a medical facility now. If something related to this surfaces later, you want records. If you're flawless, it's great to be told that by a pro. I know you're aching this morning. I'll tag you by email.
I am working on it... Being on travel and away from home I need to go with the facility that we have aligned here for us to use. I want the peace of mind.
In 50+ years of riding only 2X have I heard brakes squealing behind me and to be safe I've put my bike in neutral into 1st gear and shot across the intersection, not even looking for oncoming traffic on the side roads.
I never heard a tire screech, I am guessing that she was not going very fast but any speed to be hit from the ass end is going to knock you off the motorcycle, I would think anyway...
The motorcycle was i nuetral...
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Very sorry to see this... glad your doing alright.
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Hi Rob, Sorry to hear about the accident, Thank God you were able to ride away,and it wasnt worse. Harpers had a few Nat cycle cruiseliners "in the raw" for sale, he probably still has a few.
Rick
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I went for a for a sanity check-up on the slight pain that I have been experiencing since being punted off the Guzzi...
Had a good, thorough going over with the cute little Dr. Toni, didn't catch her last name. She put me through the paces for range of motion and it was her belief that, after checking me over that the amount of discomfort did not warrant X-rays. Very knowledgeable and helpful.
Now, the disclaimer is that no matter what one might feel now or in three days, there is nothing to guarantee that something might not surface at some later date. I can now hand that info over to the hitter's insurance company and this visit will be documented that I experienced pain due to the accident.
She found it funny that I was going to this extent to essentially put the hitter's mind at ease, I told her that the intent was to put my mind at ease and the hitter's .
So, feeling pretty good and I have a clutch lever on the way, hopefully National Cycles cases soon also...
Best,
Rob
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Rob:
I agree on getting yourself checked out. Even a series of trips to the chiropracter could help keep things in line and prevent problems. Go in now and keep records- there should be no problems with reimbursement.
As for bike damage- photos, photos, photos. Overall shots as well as close ups. Make a list and make sure to account for postage and labor to R&R. If you are orderly and not vindictive- i think you'll find her carrier pretty straightforward to deal with. On that note- get the contact information for the adjustor assigned to her claim as well as the claim number. Her insurance agency should provide you with that info.
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Rob:
I agree on getting yourself checked out. Even a series of trips to the chiropracter could help keep things in line and prevent problems. Go in now and keep records- there should be no problems with reimbursement.
As for bike damage- photos, photos, photos. Overall shots as well as close ups. Make a list and make sure to account for postage and labor to R&R. If you are orderly and not vindictive- i think you'll find her carrier pretty straightforward to deal with. On that note- get the contact information for the adjustor assigned to her claim as well as the claim number. Her insurance agency should provide you with that info.
Jonathan,
Yup, all checked out and we (she) checked for alignment and we did indeed talk about a chiropractor or osteopath for alignment if needed.
You are right on the money with the details also... I am doing just that, showing her photos of the damage which is minimal, lots of photos to help her and a husband if there is one understand what they are looking at.
I have even found a couple of sets of used NC bags, one nearby but I may have lost those to another, he called first and all that... I do not wish to have her insurance pay for new NC Cases as these were already on the Guzzi when I bought it and they are were not perfect to start with.
Trying to be fair and as you say, not vindictive.
I am just that naïve to believe that it can all work out without going for the jugular.
Thanks,
Rob
Hi Rob, Sorry to hear about the accident, Thank God you were able to ride away,and it wasnt worse. Harpers had a few Nat cycle cruiseliners "in the raw" for sale, he probably still has a few.
Rick
Thanks Rick, if the leads I have for cases fall through, I'll give Curtis a call. Are in the raw cases at least black...? I hate to paint and being out here I really have no place to do that.
Best,
Rob
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It's nice to hear someone wanting to be fair instead of punitive. So many would eye a situation like this as an opportunity to snag a windfall.
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Hey Rob,
Just spotted your post and have to say I was shocked! Reading through all the posts I'm relieved to learn that you are taking all the appropriate steps to get your "riggin'" right.
Not sure I understand your reluctance to hold the hitter/ hitter's insurance responsible for damages to the bike. Does it really matter that the bags came with the bike??? So did the wheels, fenders, tank etc. etc. Not preachin' and ultimately you will do what feels "right" to YOU.
Most importantly, I'm glad your in one piece and look forward to doin' some ridin' with ya this Summer.
Steve
P.S. Chia sends love!!
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Rob, you have to understand, Insurance Co.s want to get off as cheap as possible. You are just a case # to them and the sooner they can close your case the happier they are. I haven't heard anyone here saying take the Ins. Co. for all you can, but please understand, they aren't in that your a nice guy mindset at all. If you don't know your rights in this transaction they will lie to you to coerce you to free them of any obligation. ;)
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Please, for the love of God, don't turn this into another Insurance company conspiracy post. We've heard it already: insurance companies train adjustors to screw you. My friend is an adjustor and told me they are told to cheat you and not pay claims.
The post is about Rob and what he can do.
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Hey Rob,
Just spotted your post and have to say I was shocked! Reading through all the posts I'm relieved to learn that you are taking all the appropriate steps to get your "riggin'" right.
Not sure I understand your reluctance to hold the hitter/ hitter's insurance responsible for damages to the bike. Does it really matter that the bags came with the bike??? So did the wheels, fenders, tank etc. etc. Not preachin' and ultimately you will do what feels "right" to YOU.
Most importantly, I'm glad your in one piece and look forward to doin' some ridin' with ya this Summer.
Steve
P.S. Chia sends love!!
Yeah, I am not a huge fan of insurance corporations, I just thought I would try and make the reimbursement as easy as possible so as to make it speedy...
Now that you point out this fatal flaw, I guess I do realize that the insurance co does not give a hoot if I try to save them any coin. I must have been thinking I was saving the hitter the bread... I dunno.
If I cannot find used ones then I will just give her the new, buy it now price... they are spendy and I really only need one, that would look great, one new case and one not-so-new... ::)
How does this work exactly, do I go buy bags and beg for funds or give them an estimate. Does an "Adjuster come look at the damage...? Not very experienced at accidents thanks goodness.
Thanks Steve, we will have to go on a Stelvio blast or two, love right back to Chia.
Best,
rd
Rob, you have to understand, Insurance Co.s want to get off as cheap as possible. You are just a case # to them and the sooner they can close your case the happier they are. I haven't heard anyone here saying take the Ins. Co. for all you can, but please understand, they aren't in that your a nice guy mindset at all. If you don't know your rights in this transaction they will lie to you to coerce you to free them of any obligation. ;)
Understand... maybe I did bump my head... LOL :D
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all this talk about rear ended at intersections leads me to say that it should be legal to lane split everywhere.
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Holy smokes... glad you are (mostly) intact, things can be replaced people can't.
http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Pamphlets/AutoAccident.aspx#1
That couple in the pickup's word will really help you. A lot of people change their word after the accident and deny everything after their insurance tells them to. And see a doctor! There's injuries that can go unnoticed and cause major problems later, just be safe. If you are worried about cost, I think your insurance company can "subrogate" the cost of the doctor's visit since it was clearly the other party's fault.
I'm glad to hear it hasn't put you off riding, and you still have faith in people. Thanks for sharing your experience!
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Bike accidents always suck,glad to hear only the bike is damaged . Many year ago I was driving my car looking to the left for a business entrance..I was slowing down,brake lights lit.....Kaboom! I was rear ended by a Goldwing. Bike and rider laying on the ground. I helped the rider pick up the bike,he was limping around ,pants torn,bloody knee. I felt bad like it was my fault..The rider said he was at fault and was not paying attention because he was looking for the same business entrance...His bike was damaged but rideable, my rust bucket car had a bent bumper....
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Hey Rad, glad to hear you're ok.
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Good to know you're GOOD.. did the impact hit the tire at all? if yes, you might want to inspect the u-joint and the wheel to be sure nothing got bent or bruised. even the rear of the frame coulda been tweaked.
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I had a similar thing happen when I was on a Goldwing a few years back. Scratched the bag and tweaked my back was all.
I went to my chiropractor, who is a god among men (Okay, maybe just an angel) and he tuned me up.
The insurance adjuster was eager to make it clear that they were fair. Came out and took a picture of the bike while I was at work. I gave them the price of a bag off Ebay and they didn't blink an eye. I told them I wanted a set of ten visits to my chiropractor, at that time the family discount package size. It all came to something over $300. They insisted on paying $500.
I'll send you my chiro and body work (two different guys) contact data. These guys are awesome, albeit geographically inconvenient (La Mesa). I'm taller and younger every time I walk out of there.
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I had a similar thing happen when I was on a Goldwing a few years back. Scratched the bag and tweaked my back was all.
I went to my chiropractor, who is a god among men (Okay, maybe just an angel) and he tuned me up.
I'll send you my chiro and body work (two different guys) contact data. These guys are awesome, albeit geographically inconvenient (La Mesa). I'm taller and younger every time I walk out of there.
Anybody who goes down with enough force to cause back/neck pain should receive a full set of x-rays before ever letting a chiropractor touch them. In my professional life I have made braces for many a trauma patients and a few of them did not necessarily know the extent of their injury until days later and only after x-rays and or CT scan.
And then there is the story of my ex wife who had a back fusion years before this incident. She fell backwards/fell after loosing her grip grabbing a large heavy door. She had severe lower spine pain and went to the ER. The x-rays were negative. She suffered badly for days in pain and returned a week later. A new set of X-rays revealed a perfect horizontal fracture in her lower back. Some fractures do not always appear immediately. Lucky for her it was stable. The docs in the ER thought she was a malinger and just wanted drugs. When that black line showed up in her lower back they shut the **** up and did surgery immediately.
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Anybody who goes down with enough force to cause back/neck pain should receive a full set of x-rays before ever letting a chiropractor touch them.
redrider,
I agree totally, I would think that would be protocol.
Said in my best Tony the Tiger voice, I feel Great today, Unbelievable. Took another hot tub last night, did a few light range of motion exercises and I really feel fine. I see no need for the chiropractor...
And to be clear here, I rolled (I think) backwards and to the left off a motorcycle that had been sitting still and booted out from under me. I did not really "go down" in a classic sense, more of a fall off I guess.
Anyway, I feel good.
Sending a list of required replacement parts to the hitter for her insurance company this evening...
Best,
Rob
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glad you are OK...had something similar happen in 2006...positive thing is you walked away from it.
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Rob- deal with the physical stuf. I might be able to guide you through your claim.
Always call your own insurance company if only to put them on notice. They'll stand by if you need them. You do not want to have to go through your own company if only because of the hassle of the deductible (if they subrogate successfully against the third party, they will refund your deductible).
Get in touch with the third party carrier and lay out all the information. You want to provide them with a detailed statement (time, precise location, circumstances, signals, traffic lights, other vehicles, etc.). Provide a detailed diagram- not chicken scratching. One easy way is to pull up the intersection on google maps, print it out, and use that as a background. I don't know if you have witnesses- but get the names and statements to submit.
Of course, provide pictures and a list of damages as well as proposed repairs (labor and materials).
There's really no need to use invective of to get huffy. Your case is very straight forward. When presented this way- the third party adjustor has a very easy time justifying payment. I always tell people in liability situations- "50% of the time our guy is wrong, 50% of the time your guy is wrong."
You make out fine.
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redrider,
Took another hot tub last night, did a few light range of motion exercises and I really feel fine. I see no need for the chiropractor...
Love the tub!
Good advice on having a claim number with your own insurance provider too. In our case we had claims on my provider (underinsured) and theirs. Although you feel fine now in a week if something isn't right and your med expenses go up you can blow through their coverage limits in just a matter of days (or hours).
The adjuster's goal will be to get a release of claim from you as fast as possible so if you don't need the cash flow time works in your favor. Don't sign until you are certain.
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Ok, good idea I guess about informing my insurance folks.... I'll give them a call. Thanks.
So, I installed the new clutch lever and removed the ride side case to try and assess the mounts and rear frame section..
According to the measurements and examination for stress cracks all that looks good.
Took her for a blast and even the bars seem ok, the motorcycle was really only knocked over onto the left side and the ride side case took and absorbed all of the low speed impact.
I submitted my best estimate of damages to the woman that hit the poor Guzzi and I have to say that I still feel like a bandit telling her the price of new National Cycles cases but I did an itemized list that included a mirror and the clutch lever... at least the mounts are ok, they are not available any longer.
I expect that I will hear from an adjuster next...?
Best,
Rob
Headed for the hot tub... ;)
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I want to hear more about Dr. Toni.
Rich A
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Yeah, I am not a huge fan of insurance corporations, I just thought I would try and make the reimbursement as easy as possible so as to make it speedy...
Now that you point out this fatal flaw, I guess I do realize that the insurance co does not give a hoot if I try to save them any coin. I must have been thinking I was saving the hitter the bread... I dunno.
If I cannot find used ones then I will just give her the new, buy it now price... they are spendy and I really only need one, that would look great, one new case and one not-so-new... ::)
How does this work exactly, do I go buy bags and beg for funds or give them an estimate. Does an "Adjuster come look at the damage...? Not very experienced at accidents thanks goodness.
Thanks Steve, we will have to go on a Stelvio blast or two, love right back to Chia.
Best,
rd
Understand... maybe I did bump my head... LOL :D
My remarks are from personal experience on accidents and insur. co.s. They don't all operate the same way. Some will treat you right, some don't.
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I expect that I will hear from an adjuster next...?
You may have to phone her insurance company . . .
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Do not deal with the lady who hit you. You want a one on one with the adjustor from her company. Get the claim number and contact phone number from the lady's insurance agent. Next talk directly with the company adjustor.
As for replacing the bags- don't sweat it. Everyone knows tha thte labor for a repair and refinish can exceed the cost of simple replacement. Point out both options and it should be clear.
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Do not deal with the lady who hit you. You want a one on one with the adjustor from her company. Get the claim number and contact phone number from the lady's insurance agent. Next talk directly with the company adjustor.
Ooops, I sent the hitter the list-o-stuff that needs replacing. I will call or text her for the claim number and POC at her insurance co.
Thanks,
Rob
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Well this is not a great shock...!
With the initial dialog with the woman that hit the Guzzi she told me that there was a lot going on in her life but she wants to make this right.. blah, blah, blah...
After not hearing back from her or her insurance folks for a few days regarding the claim I started sending text messages twice daily and emails to her and I have finally received another message back stating that she is going through an ugly divorce, her husband cancelled the insurance and she is thinking of bankruptcy... Great.
She wants to know if I will be willing to accept a payment plan... ahh, no thanks. I think I will have my insurance help and then be the first in line for collections when she files for bankruptcy... ::)
Perfect.
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Well...that sucks!
GliderJohn
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Well this is not a great shock...!
With the initial dialog with the woman that hit the Guzzi she told me that there was a lot going on in her life but she wants to make this right.. blah, blah, blah...
After not hearing back from her or her insurance folks for a few days regarding the claim I started sending text messages twice daily and emails to her and I have finally received another message back stating that she is going through an ugly divorce, her husband cancelled the insurance and she is thinking of bankruptcy... Great.
She wants to know if I will be willing to accept a payment plan... ahh, no thanks. I think I will have my insurance help and then be the first in line for collections when she files for bankruptcy... ::)
Perfect.
That's exactly the way it usually goes. AT THE TIME, people are all remorseful and apologetic and "will make it right".
But later, after they've "taken advice" and thought about it, they can convince themselves that THEY are the victim, they don't owe you anything, and they'll "get out of it" if they can.
The divorce, bankruptcy, etc is probably all lies anyway just to find a way out of it. Been there, had it happen .....
Lannis
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I'd call her insurance company and start the claim myself.
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This is why underinsured/uninsured insurance is so important these days.
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I'd call her insurance company and start the claim myself.
Well, here's the deal...
I called the insurance company that she gave me at the scene and asked for any claims, none found. Asked the helpful fellow on the phone if she was still a client with their company, no.
So, my insurance will take care of my issues and the state will be happy to hear from her (former) insurance company that she is no longer insured.
The saga takes a different turn...
Best,
Rob
This is why underinsured/uninsured insurance is so important these days.
Right, I am now reaping the "Beneifits" of having paid my way.. and I get to pay hers too. :P
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You might offer to not explain her insurance status to the dmv in return for a one-time payment of the full amount.
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Well, here's the deal...
I called the insurance company that she gave me at the scene and asked for any claims, none found. Asked the helpful fellow on the phone if she was still a client with their company, no.
So, my insurance will take care of my issues and the state will be happy to hear from her (former) insurance company that she is no longer insured.
The saga takes a different turn...
Best,
Rob
Right, I am now reaping the "Beneifits" of having paid my way.. and I get to pay hers too. :P
Ugh so she lied to you. In North Carolina it is a computerized and you cancel/drop insurance they want your license plate pronto. They send the sheriff looking for it. And if you do not have insurance you cannot renew you plate.
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Well, here's the deal...
I called the insurance company that she gave me at the scene and asked for any claims, none found. Asked the helpful fellow on the phone if she was still a client with their company, no.
So, my insurance will take care of my issues and the state will be happy to hear from her (former) insurance company that she is no longer insured.
The saga takes a different turn...
Best,
Rob
Right, I am now reaping the "Beneifits" of having paid my way.. and I get to pay hers too. :P
I was waiting for that shoe to drop.
I am glad you have additional insurance. All I carry is liability.
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I am glad you have additional insurance. All I carry is liability.
Well, as it turns out, my insurance will not cover damage to the m/c, only cover my medical to which there was only the check up... due to the under insured/ non insured situation.
So, the payment plan is looking better...
We'll see what happens but I am fully prepared to take a hit (no pun intended) on the m/c damages... :P
Rob
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Rob , uninsured/under insured coverage only ever covers med . Leads to lots of confusion . Good luck with recovering monies from the other party .
Dusty
I just called my North Carolina Farm Bureau agent and my uninsured policy (only on vehicles that I have FULL comprehensive/collision) covers both medical and also damage to the vehicle.
Now even if my auto insurance did not cover medical on say my old pickup that only has liability on it then my regular health insurance kicks in coverage and I am screwed on the vehicle damage. So my MC, and old pick up and old Honda Civic only have liability. They are not covered by the uninsured clause. But my nice car, the Sonata has full coverage and it is covered totally by uninsured part of the policy.
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Rob,
Bad news, man- sorry to hear. The good intention to make payments is no more assuring than the good intentions at the scene. These things usually go where the person makes several payments then melts away. I am the type who would be pissed enough to take her to small claims court. It's very inexpensive and effortless. The outcome is assured. The result is that you get a judgment. The result might be the same, a payment plan- but the consequences of her defaulting are more grave. Of course, if she does not want to be dragged through that, she can borrow the money from a dear friend NOW, pay you, then take the time to pay off the friend.
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Harvey , N.C. law may be different . One question however , since your comp and collision already cover any losses from an uninsured motorist , minus the deductible , what is the UM actually covering ?
Dusty
Edit . A quick read of N.C. law re UM coverage indicates it does in fact only cover med , P&S , and lost wages . Even that is somewhat limited .
Dusty,
I checked and you are correct. Even on "liability only" policies I still have full uninsured coverage medical and vehicle on all my vehicles.
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Dusty,
I checked and you are correct. Even on "liability only" policies I still have full uninsured coverage medical and vehicle on all my vehicles.
I have had a couple of conversations with my insurance folks, one call my Wife took the call as I was busy elsewhere and heard the voice mail later but she was told that we are not insured for the m/c damage due to the uninsured part of tis sticky mess.
Oddly enough though, I heard from a different agent today regarding the personal injury which they are more than happy to take care of.
I'll call this first guy back and ask some questions.
Best,
Rob
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My bikes would like total out at $1500 - $3500 (1998 Suzuki Bandit, 1998 EV, and 2001 V11 Sport). Couple that with $1000 deductible and it hardly makes a difference for me to get full coverage. If I ever an expensive bike, I might upgrade the insurance.
:beat_horse
the uninsured medical can come in handy. They will Subrogate with your health insurance company but it means you won't have deductibles and will have $10k or so of gap coverage.
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My coverage with progressive includes full comprehensive, plus $3k n accessories/gear, AND the disappearing deductible means the $500 becomes $100 out of pocket after four years without a claim...
I used it when I bent a $1200 wheel on Jenn's Duc.
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When ever I deal with area I am not an expert in, I call the experts. We laymen do not know the ins and outs of the insurance profession. The insurance industry's job is to use premiums to make money, not pay claims. Insurance companies will collect your premiums, and when you try to place a claim, then they will investigate to look forways to deny claims. Do not believe the feel good advertising.
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When ever I deal with area I am not an expert in, I call the experts. We laymen do not know the ins and outs of the insurance profession. The insurance industry's job is to use premiums to make money, not pay claims. Insurance companies will collect your premiums, and when you try to place a claim, then they will investigate to look forways to deny claims. Do not believe the feel good advertising.
Goose- excellent point. Assuming that you do not work in the insurance business, I'd recommend that you keep your conspiratorial opinions to yourself. Insurance policies are a contract between the company and the insured. They are bound by law to uphold that contract or face very severe fines. If the idiot that hit Rob did not have insurance- that's hardly the fault of some insurance company. If Rob somehow does not have insurance for uninsured motorists- that's not the fault of his insurance company. Arguably- I would say that a good insurance agent is paid to advise and guide thier clients into getting proper coverage.
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My coverage with progressive includes full comprehensive, plus $3k n accessories/gear, AND the disappearing deductible means the $500 becomes $100 out of pocket after four years without a claim...
I used it when I bent a $1200 wheel on Jenn's Duc.
I don't know about NJ, but "comprehensive" has always meant fire and theft coverage added to basic liability when I've gotten insurance. It's usually very inexpensive, so I normally get it.
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Goose- excellent point. Assuming that you do not work in the insurance business, I'd recommend that you keep your conspiratorial opinions to yourself. Insurance policies are a contract between the company and the insured. They are bound by law to uphold that contract or face very severe fines. If the idiot that hit Rob did not have insurance- that's hardly the fault of some insurance company. If Rob somehow does not have insurance for uninsured motorists- that's not the fault of his insurance company. Arguably- I would say that a good insurance agent is paid to advise and guide thier clients into getting proper coverage.
boatdetective -
I don't think that Goose's take is "conspiratorial" at all, (and I even believe that cops are out there to enforce the law, not generate revenue! ;-T )
I've had the same experience with almost every insurance company I've dealt with. My take is from that experience, not some hard-on against the insurance business.
When I'm being sold a policy, everything is generally sunlight, butterflies, and flowers.
But when I CLAIM against that policy (my OWN policy that I've paid for), THEN is when all the maggots start crawling out of the paperwork. THIS isn't really covered, THAT'S not worth as much as you would have thought, now you have a CLAIM history and your premiums go up, OH LOOK, you don't have the properly updated documentation for what you lost, etc etc.
And it's worse if it's the OTHER person's insurance company. You are their enemy. Their job is to get you to "settle" for the minimum amount possible by any trick, scam, implied threat of litigation, whatever they can do to get out of it, NOT for a "just" amount of money, but for the LEAST amount of money they can, whether it's right and ethical or not.
And the "it's a contract" thing doesn't fly very far. I'm required by LAW under penalties of fines and imprisonment to sign this "contract", or be prevented from using a motor vehicle on the highway. As the old saying is, "A raped wench is not a wife".
Why would we not feel like we do about them? Enquiring minds want to know .... ??? :o
Lannis
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Most states bundle Comp and collision as a package .
I'll agree that when you get full coverage, it includes fire and theft coverage, but if you get liability coverage and ask for comprehensive to be added, you wont have to buy full coverage insurance to get it.
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I'll agree that when you get full coverage, it includes fire and theft coverage, but if you get liability coverage and ask for comprehensive to be added, you wont have to buy full coverage insurance to get it.
I'm sorry, perhaps I mis-stated, perhaps it was the collision portion of the coverage, I'd have to check.
But in PA and also NJ it seems, at least with Progressive and Allstate it appears you get both in the same package (comprehensive and collision).
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I'm sorry, perhaps I mis-stated, perhaps it was the collision portion of the coverage, I'd have to check.
But in PA and also NJ it seems, at least with Progressive and Allstate it appears you get both in the same package (comprehensive and collision).
Things change over the years. I just checked my Guzzi policy with Progressive, and I did not see an option to get comprehensive and basic liability only like I used to get with other companies. It may be possible, but it wasn't on their online policy configurator. I do know I've gotten quotes for that combination recently, so maybe you have to ask, but Kev and Dusty, your point is taken. :)
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Things change over the years. I just checked my Guzzi policy with Progressive, and I did not see an option to get comprehensive and basic liability only like I used to get with other companies. It may be possible, but it wasn't on their online policy configurator. I do know I've gotten quotes for that combination recently, so maybe you have to ask, but Kev and Dusty, your point is taken. :)
After checking a 2nd time with my agent I have a firmer understanding of uninsured/underinsured clause.
Uninsured/underinsured is an opt in clause and not automatic. I have to check the box to include the coverage. North Carolina Farm Bureau has a one time charge for all vehicles on the policy regardless if I have 1 vehicle or 4 vehicles: the price is the same. I do not have to have full comprehensive and collision in order to opt in for Uninsured/underinsured coverage. If all my vehicles had just a liability coverage I can still opt in and get full coverage on the vehicle and medical if I am not at fault and the other driver is not insured.
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Rob,
Bad news, man- sorry to hear. The good intention to make payments is no more assuring than the good intentions at the scene. These things usually go where the person makes several payments then melts away. I am the type who would be pissed enough to take her to small claims court. It's very inexpensive and effortless. The outcome is assured. The result is that you get a judgment. The result might be the same, a payment plan- but the consequences of her defaulting are more grave. Of course, if she does not want to be dragged through that, she can borrow the money from a dear friend NOW, pay you, then take the time to pay off the friend.
small claims court will only memorialize the dept. they do nothing to collect it and there is no penalty if the judgement is unfulfilled.
you have to pay to collect it
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the insurer is required, in a first party claim, to pay what the policy requires, no more, no less; its a contract.
on third party claims, of course the insurer will attempt to minimize the payment, would you give your money away and if you did how long would you be in business
it's the transfer of a risk, its a business not a benefit or entitlement
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"They will Subrogate with your health insurance company"
what does this mean?
how is your health insurance company responsible for your loss?
subrogation is the transfer of the wronged party's rights to another party ie their insurer ( following a payment under the policy)
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small claims court will only memorialize the dept. they do nothing to collect it and there is no penalty if the judgement is unfulfilled.
you have to pay to collect it
It depends upon the state- but you can have the court issue a "capias" in the event of default to pay a judgment. In some cases, this means the plaintiff hires a sheriff to execute the capias, he finds the defendant, handcuffs them, drags them back into court, the judge gets really pissed at the defendant, and the defendant has to arrange payment/attached wages/etc. including the cost of the sheriff.
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"They will Subrogate with your health insurance company"
what does this mean?
how is your health insurance company responsible for your loss?
subrogation is the transfer of the wronged party's rights to another party ie their insurer ( following a payment under the policy)
subrogation is among the two insurers...the health insurance and the vehicle insurance companies. Basically they split the costs. Usually means the vehicle insurer will pay the $10k (or whatever policy limit) of medical coverage. Typically it pays the deductible and gaps the Health Insurance doesn't cover up to the policy limit. Or the vehicle insurer may just pay the policy holder $10k and let the insured work the medical bills with the health insurance company.
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in CT that costs $100 and the marshall will only notify the defendant, not physically bring him in.
you can execute a lien on his wages, if he has a job. but you have ot find out where he works or get his SS number
you can put lien on his house or car, if he has one, for addditional cost
if he has nothing you get nothing
most of the time he will make a payment or two then stop, now you have to go through it all again, for another $100 fee to the state, repeat as needed
it's a civil matter, the courts won't be much help
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subrogation is among the two insurers...the health insurance and the vehicle insurance companies. Basically they split the costs. Usually means the vehicle insurer will pay the $10k (or whatever policy limit) of medical coverage. Typically it pays the deductible and gaps the Health Insurance doesn't cover up to the policy limit. Or the vehicle insurer may just pay the policy holder $10k and let the insured work the medical bills with the health insurance company.
I have to disagree, that is not the definition of subrogation
A term denoting a legal right that is reserved by most insurance carriers. Subrogation is the right for an insurer to pursue a third party that caused an insurance loss to the insured. This is done as a means of recovering the amount of the claim paid to the insured for the loss.
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Basically , the only parties getting rich are the lawyers .
Dusty
Yep. And I JUST remembered where that money all comes from .... !
Lannis
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an insurance company cannot subrogate against another insurance company. the first party company assumes the rights of it's insured to recover from the responsible party (subrogate), who may or may not be insured. the responsible party's insurer may take up the defense if it is coverd under the policy.
very seldom will an insurance company pursue a claim under their own name, it s their insured's claim and they will never pursue the claim against another insurance company; insurance companies don't sue other insurance companies
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the defendant would obtain a summary judgement at the first hearing
the plaintiff company has no legal claims against the defendant company, the right of claim is against the responsible party; the thrid party insured not insurer
semantics but the complaint will not be against another insurance company
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Yep. And I JUST remembered where that money all comes from .... !
Lannis
Those expenses are spread out over the entire customer base . No way an insurance company can charge one individual a high enough rate to cover a large loss .
Dusty
Yes. What I said. All the money that's making the lawyers prosperous is coming from the premiums that the customers pay ..... there isn't another source ....
Lannis
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most insurers make their money on their investments; they invest the premium dollars
the premium pool is not large enough for most lines to cover the claims never mind the expense; most auto isurers have loss ratios of more than 100%
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most insurers make their money on their investments; they invest the premium dollars
the premium pool is not large enough for most lines to cover the claims never mind the expense; most auto isurers have loss ratios of more than 100%
Well, maybe.
All I know is that since 1980, me and my employer have paid over $400,000 in premiums for my health insurance, and I've used about $30,000 of that. Since 1970, I've spent about $50,000 on vehicle insurance, and collected about $2,000 on it, and I've spent $60,000 on house and property insurance and never had to use it once.
SOMEONE is pickin' and grinnin' on top of a big green pile consisting of a whole sh!tpotfull of my money over the years, I do know that.
Lannis
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they are NOT going after an insurance company, they are going after the responsible party who may have a liablity policy to cover his liablity and if the poicy limits are not adequate the insurence company is NOT liable for any amounts over the policy limits. the isurer has no seperate liablilty
there are instances where an insurer will sue another insurer, as in a joint loss situation, a loss insured under more than one policy, but it is not a subrogation action
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Lannis, your money went to pay the claims of the guy who bought a policy for $600 and his house burned down two weeks later
and for my heart stents, thanks
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Lannis , we are still relatively young . One major surgery with an extended hospital stay will eat up that $400K . Just how the system works , the next gen will have to subsidize us in our old age .
Dusty
I know. I've just been lucky, I guess. Although if I'd not paid for all that insurance, and had invested in Intel or Microsoft instead, that $400K operation and drlapo's stents would have been pocket change and chicken feed, respectively!!
Lannis
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I have to disagree, that is not the definition of subrogation
A term denoting a legal right that is reserved by most insurance carriers. Subrogation is the right for an insurer to pursue a third party that caused an insurance loss to the insured. This is done as a means of recovering the amount of the claim paid to the insured for the loss.
and how is it that any different from what I said in practice?
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Rob, just saw this thread. Being rear ended is a scenario that I dread, and knowing what is going on behind you is very much harder than knowing what is coming up front.
Glad you are OK.
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Sorry to hear about that Rob.
It has happened to me twice plus one near miss when I was stopped at a pedestrian crossing with a mother and pram crossing in front of me, where to go! Luckily the idiot managed to screech to a halt behind me.
When I was reversed into in a McDonalds car park near Patras Greece the driver came out apologizing in broken English. Unfortunately for him I speak Greek and gave him an earful of colourful invective so he scuttled off pronto.
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Being rear ended is a scenario that I dread, and knowing what is going on behind you is very much harder than knowing what is coming up front.
This is a very good argument for going fast all the time.
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Rob, just saw this thread. Being rear ended is a scenario that I dread, and knowing what is going on behind you is very much harder than knowing what is coming up front.
Glad you are OK.
I was sitting at a traffic light in the country some 10 years ago on the way to work. The speed drops from 55 to 45 and then there is the light all to close together for my liking. My wife was rear ended bad there a year before. I always leave a bit of room in front of me and at this light which seems to have more than its share of rear enders I leave more room. I heard the sound of screeching tires... and instinctively took off fast into the empty left turn lane. As I did that the car I had heard screeching, skidded to a stop in the spot I had just vacated. That one I will never forget. It is not often one gets a chance to avoid a rear ender. If had been on the bike I would have been toast.
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My friend Mark Kingsbury received a Harley for his 50th birthday. The next day he was stopped at a light -- killed by a semi coming from behind.
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This certainly makes the case for lane splitting at intersections. Not only is lane splitting safer, it would also reduce congestion.
A law on the books that represents most folks' "common sense" but needlessly endangers and causes traffic delays.
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This is a very good argument for going fast all the time.
Absolutely right. As a matter of policy providing it is a practical proposition, I travel about 5mph faster than the traffic flow for that very reason. I can see most of my potential problems coming. It is when you are stopped at a traffic like or some such that you are your most vulnerable.
Lane splitting at a stop light has it's good points I think, though I'm not sure if it's legal here or not. I've never been pulled up for it. I have rules for myself when doing it though. 1/ The traffic I'm moving between must be stopped. 2/ I do it slowly to avoid surprises. 3/ I must be able to get right to the front. That way I'm not trapped between moving vehicles when the light turns green, and generally I can get clear ahead. Into clear air so to speak.