Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: kenvil1 on February 20, 2015, 02:23:14 PM

Title: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: kenvil1 on February 20, 2015, 02:23:14 PM
I've been admiring the V7 for some time, but after viewing the redesigned model, I can't help but feel that Moto-Guzzi has been manufacturing and selling a premium priced motorcycle with a flawed drivetrain, all along. The raised and rearward-canted engine seems to have been a last-minute band-aid solution to compensate for the overly sharp angle of the output and drive shaft joint in their design, and this totally contradicts conventional motorcycle design where the weight is always placed "low and to the front" as much as possible.

The V7 still has an old-world charm to it, but now that the V7 II is out, I have trouble seeing past the lines of the earlier models. Add to this the rudimentary suspension, and the V7 is off my wish list for the time being, especially since the V7 II won't be available in North America until 2016, at which time the European model may see even more improvements. And like someone else was posting elsewhere, the Limited Edition in the US with the green tank and the red frame seems to be just a way of dumping their remaining models onto unsuspecting buyers.

Still hoping…
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: rodekyll on February 20, 2015, 02:27:54 PM
A fair review of an unconventional mc using conventional bike standards.  However, comparing it to a 'conventional' bike is an apples to oranges thing.  It's a matter of taste.  If you don't like oranges, that's fine.  Stick with apples.

Me, I'd never own one, but not for any of the reasons you gave . . .
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: Rotten Ralph on February 20, 2015, 02:46:14 PM
In a few years the V7 II will have shown up with some problems and the "all new and improved" V7 Penne will replace it. :D If you keep waiting for the perfect motorcycle your not going to be riding for quite awhile.

Just go with what you like and if not quite right, make some modifications.  :BEER: :BEER:
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: rocker59 on February 20, 2015, 03:06:34 PM

V7 is off my wish list for the time being, especially since the V7 II won't be available in North America until 2016, at which time the European model may see even more improvements. And like someone else was posting elsewhere, the Limited Edition in the US with the green tank and the red frame seems to be just a way of dumping their remaining models onto unsuspecting buyers.

Still hoping…

I guess you have a really hard time with things like cameras, smart phones and computers, huh?

You have to jump in somewhere, because if you don't the improvements will continue to roll in while you're watching from the sidelines.  And, no matter where you jump in, the next models will be new/improved/different.

For what are you still hoping?
Title: Re: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: Kev m on February 20, 2015, 03:17:06 PM
I've been admiring the V7 for some time, but after viewing the redesigned model, I can't help but feel that Moto-Guzzi has been manufacturing and selling a premium priced motorcycle with a flawed drivetrain, all along. The raised and rearward-canted engine seems to have been a last-minute band-aid solution to compensate for the overly sharp angle of the output and drive shaft joint in their design, and this totally contradicts conventional motorcycle design where the weight is always placed "low and to the front" as much as possible.


???

Hey princess, how's that pea?

:P ;)

No seriously, first off "premium priced"? It's the entry level product to the brand and it's priced that way just like the similar products from Harley, Ducati, Triumph, and probably BMW (haven't checked in a while on the last one).

Flawed? How? Flawed like imperfectly balanced 45°v twin? No wait, that's Harley.

Flawed like requires expensive valve shimming every 7.5k or so miles and chain cleaning/waxing/adjustment every 500-1000 miles? No wait that's Ducatis and Triumph.

Flawed like building a simple, easy to work on, long-lived motor and chassis whose basic design has been around for decades, but they prettied up the chassis and made it even easier to service with a single throttle body?

<sarcasm> yup, bastards, how dare they </sarcasm>

Look, I'm excited that the smallblock is continuing to develop. And I think there are some nice, but albeit small, improvements on the V7II. But nothing more than a few more features and possibly a tiny bit more leg room.

That's not exactly gonna get me to sell mine.

And really angst over the limited edition racer with the new tank is wasted emotion. There's nothing deceptive about that model nor is it a conspiracy that the US gets the newest versions last.

Big deal. . .
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: nikwax on February 20, 2015, 03:18:32 PM
I think we're getting trolled
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: drw916 on February 20, 2015, 03:23:01 PM
Flawed because you have to disassembles half the bike to get the rear wheel out.

That was my only complaint on my V7.  Loved it, but traded it for a Griso
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: rocker59 on February 20, 2015, 03:25:20 PM
I think we're getting trolled

Maybe...  But I think he's really just another new-to-Guzzi motorcyclist who hates waiting for Guzzi's updated models to show up Stateside...

I guess it takes years to learn the patience of hardcore Guzzisti.


Oh, and Guzzi does have a history of throwing limited editions at the USA market when the models are near their ends.  They did it with the V11 Sport a dozen years ago.  It's nothing new, unless you're new to Guzzi...


(http://www.clevelandmoto.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/MotoGuzzi/.pond/VerdeLegnano2.jpg.w560h375.jpg)

(http://motoprofi.com/bikephoto/4771/moto_guzzi_v11_sport_naked_2002_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: pyoungbl on February 20, 2015, 03:30:04 PM
Yep, trolled.  Some the OP got confused about the geometry of the newest version of the V7.  The engine will be canted fwd, not backward and the pegs are lower...not raising the engine.  I suspect the engine cant is just to get the left jug away from the riders left knee and lower pegs merely opens up the foot to seat distance for taller riders.  The basic drive train is as dependable as a ball peen hammer.  

This must be part of the mid winter cabin fever...

Peter Y.
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: rocker59 on February 20, 2015, 03:33:09 PM
Yep, trolled.  Some the OP got confused about the geometry of the newest version of the V7.  The engine will be canted fwd, not backward and the pegs are lower...not raising the engine.  I suspect the engine cant is just to get the left jug away from the riders left knee and lower pegs merely opens up the foot to seat distance for taller riders.  The basic drive train is as dependable as a ball peen hammer.  

This must be part of the mid winter cabin fever...

Peter Y.

He's calling the current V7 flawed, with its rearward canted engine, and laments not being able to buy a V7 II in The USA, yet.

But then mentions hesitation about the V7 II, because the V7 III will be coming shortly after that and he doesn't want to buy something that's going to be upgraded next year...

So, though he likes the V7RL, he can't buy one because the V7 II will be here in the fall.  And, after thinking about it, he can't buy a V7 II in the fall because Guzzi will surely be coming out with another major upgrade that he doesn't want to miss out on...

 :winer
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: segesta on February 20, 2015, 03:34:14 PM
I'll add some fuel and say that if I was interested in a retro 1970s-ish air-cooled twin for ~$9000, I'd look more closely at a Ducati Scrambler (or is it Scrambler Ducati?) than a V7.

Flame away, friends!
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: clubman on February 20, 2015, 03:34:57 PM
I own an '09 V7C, bought it new,have ridden it 26K mi. now and have had zero problems with it. I've spent a lot on it personalizing to my tastes and I just love it. All that being said if I could only own 1 bike I would have had to buy something else. I ride it only on the back roads (which I am fortunate to have at my back door). As an Interstate cruiser it wouldn't do it for me, it just doesn't have the legs for it. I still have my '04 Triumph Sprint ST, and there is nothing like taking it out and occasionally pulling the trigger on a 110 hp. engine in a fairly light chassis. The V7 is not a real all-arounder, and was never intended as such. However, if you can be happy riding within it's comfort zone you can't go wrong. I'd have bought one regardless,just for the looks.
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: kingoffleece on February 20, 2015, 03:35:46 PM
I'm not waiting.  My 2015 V7 is modded right out of the box and waiting for spring!
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: Kev m on February 20, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
Flawed because you have to disassembles half the bike to get the rear wheel out.

Ha ha - I guess that single-sided swingarm is handy for something. Loved that on the Breva...talk about easy.

But on the V7 it's really just a case of removing the caliper and shock mount on that side... OR 4 bolts and taking the rear drive off.

YEAH, less convenient than a CARC, but hardly flawed...and probably easier than a Cali 1400 right?
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: bad Chad on February 20, 2015, 04:16:45 PM
Who said the v7II would not be in the US until 2016?

My understanding is that it will be on dealer floors either sometime this summer or certainly by fall.  Yes it will be a 2016 model, but that's as close to election year as it gets.
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: Vasco DG on February 20, 2015, 04:26:28 PM

YEAH, less convenient than a CARC, but hardly flawed...and probably easier than a Cali 1400 right?

Remember the hassle I had in SLC at the Kawasaki shop? They wouldn't change the tyre because it "Wasn't a normal motorcycle."  ::) :D .

Changing the tyre on a Cali 14 is a right frontbottom of a job, (As, incidentally, is changing the alternator! I found that out this week!)

Pete
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: bad Chad on February 20, 2015, 04:44:40 PM
frontbotttom?  Is that like our halfassed?
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: davedel44 on February 20, 2015, 05:23:30 PM
Kev M

 ;-T

Enjoying the heck out of mine.

Dave
Galveston
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: kenvil1 on February 20, 2015, 06:23:55 PM
I like the bike, I'm mostly disappointed in Moto-Guzzi's initial execution of it. If there was nothing wrong with the layout in the first place, then why did they change it?

I was hoping to sit on the V7 II at the Montreal Motorcycle Show this weekend to see if it fits me better than the older V7, but I only recently heard that it won't be available in Canada until the end of the year. I'm just a little bummed, I guess; some of you would be too if the situation were reversed.

I once owned a 60s Triumph, but I find that the new ones lack the classic lines of the original, and that's why my attention turned to the V7. I can't afford a stable of bikes like some of you on the forum. I only have one chance to purchase another motorcycle, and I simply want it to be the right one.
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: pyoungbl on February 20, 2015, 06:49:03 PM
I like the bike, I'm mostly disappointed in Moto-Guzzi's initial execution of it. If there was nothing wrong with the layout in the first place, then why did they change it?


Guzzi has to compete with other brands in the 750-800cc market.  The other guys have gone to 6 speed transmissions.  Everyone will have to have ABS in '16 if they sell in Europe.  There is a demand for more power from the small block.  In order to compete Guzzi decided to introduce a 6 speed tranny.  It's supposed to be stronger than the old 5 speed, very similar to what is found in the big block.  It appears that this stronger transmission will lead to a more powerful small block engine...maybe something near 850cc...in a few years.  While these changes were being worked the factory saw a chance to address some minor issues like lower pegs and a bit more clearance for the left jug.  It's all part of the evolution process, something Guzzi has been doing for decades.  A small company like Guzzi has to take incremental steps because big mistakes would kill the company.  Remember, they only make less than 10,000 bikes a year for the entire world.  That's about 1 day's production for Enfield or Harley.  You can wait for the V7 II if you think the changes are a big deal.  Most of us think the changes are nice but not compelling enough to get rid of perfectly good V7s for the new tin. 
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: Turin on February 20, 2015, 06:53:04 PM
The only reason I can think of for tilting the motor forwards is cosmetic. (it looks a little funny to me at certain angles.) The small block engines have sat in the chassis the same way since the mid '70s and I've never heard about any issues oiling or otherwise. Flawed motorcycle? No. My guess is that guzzi never bothered doing any updates to the small blocks because they never built or sold many. The V7 is changing all that. I'd venture to say it's guzzis biggest hit in a long time small block or otherwise.
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: steven c on February 20, 2015, 06:55:23 PM
 Gee you can't be disillusioned till you have owned one.
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: steven c on February 20, 2015, 07:01:50 PM
 Okay that didn't come out right.
 Whats wrong with a simple basic bike?
Title: Re:
Post by: Kev m on February 20, 2015, 08:14:40 PM
I think they changed it for:

A. a little more legroom
B. Aesthetics

And maybe cause they've learned that little incremental changes making products "new and improved" help to stimulate the market.
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: cytocycle on February 20, 2015, 08:47:55 PM
Definitely arm chair trolling... there aren't any bikes under 10k that have decent suspension from any manufacture.... get over it and upgrade it or buy a Griso and get the suspension adjusted.

I think we're getting trolled
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: luthier on February 21, 2015, 06:13:49 AM
I think the guy actually wants a well sorted older bike. He may think he's looking for a new one but if he has the money for a new V7 he'll buy one helluva great T3 for a whole lot less and have the looks and the reliability and the classic feel and the collectability.

But then why listen to me? I'm not a fan of new bikes. For anyone who never wants to play with the workings they'll probably need a newish bike. Unless there's a great place that fixes stuff nearby and you have enough money to pay the mechanic.
He's from Canada so maybe a small trip to Seattle might be a good thing. Moto International should be his first stop there of course and there will likely be something in that area that is Guzzi heaven.

Just a few ideas for the discerning rider.
You can lead a horse to water but................ ................... ......
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: kevdog3019 on February 21, 2015, 06:35:57 AM
Guzzi is disillusioned with the V7.  "Racer"   :P ::)
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: reluctor on February 21, 2015, 06:40:19 AM
Maybe the real v7

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=72887.0
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: fotoguzzi on February 21, 2015, 07:05:21 AM

He's from Canada so maybe a small trip to Seattle might be a good thing.
more than a small trip from Montreal ! like 3,000 miles..   Rose Farm maybe closer (850)
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: O on February 21, 2015, 08:52:15 AM
Gee you can't be disillusioned till you have owned one.

This, or at least have taken a test-ride on one.  If you can't wipe the grin off your face, then you know it's for you.  If you don't feel all warm and fuzzy after the ride, there are plenty of other options out there to try.  However, I would argue there are no others in this segment that have the character of the transverse mounted V.

I love mine, and don't think I'll be trading it in for the II anytime soon.
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: lucydad on February 21, 2015, 08:58:54 AM
Kenvil, all

Geared up, rolling No. 181 V7R out of garage in a minute.  Grins all around.  Likely chuckle as we we warm up the angelic Italian choir.  Snick and around the roundabout quick knee out and head down and over, and then wind to 6500 rpm up the bridge in second gear....and gone....somewhere.   Might be a bit rainy, but it is 70F.  Windy but who cares.

Point is:  very, very fun bike, reliable, competent, rare, pretty and just love my small block.

Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: ChuckH on February 21, 2015, 09:36:24 AM
.... I suspect the ....lower pegs merely opens up the foot to seat distance for taller riders.....Peter Y.  

This is the reason I can not get interested in the V7 series bikes.  Jim B. at Rose Farms has come up with several good looking variations of the stock models using available accessories.  I would like to try one set up for touring but the distance from the seat to foot pegs is about 4" less than on my Stelvio.  The shorter distance causes my knees to be bent more when riding, which is not nearly as comfortable for me during long days on the road.

I'm looking forward to seeing the V7 II.  Maybe the changes will give me the opportunity to try one.

Edit:  By the way, I don't hold much hopes for a special small block engine Stelvio here in North America.  It is too small of a market for Guzzi NA to mess with.  The Adv Touring bikes are more popular in Europe/UK and a smaller engine version would less expensive in taxes and licensing fees.   
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: nikwax on February 21, 2015, 10:17:37 AM
Definitely arm chair trolling... there aren't any bikes under 10k that have decent suspension from any manufacture.... get over it and upgrade it or buy a Griso and get the suspension adjusted.



Just joined the forum, don't own the bike, here to tell us everything that's wrong with present and future versions of something with no intention of owning any of the above. Yes, winter armchair trolling.
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: roadscum on February 21, 2015, 10:26:50 AM
So I want to know more about the "flawed drivetrain"! What's the flaw and what's been the effect of the flaw?

Or, perhaps your thinking is flawed!  ::)

Paul
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: Penderic on February 21, 2015, 10:35:00 AM
Oh you silly willies! Why so sensitive? Are you, are you....
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/american-hipster-design_1024x1024_zpsirp71i3d.jpg)
 :D :BEER:
Title: Re: Getting disillusioned with the V7
Post by: lucydad on February 21, 2015, 08:13:26 PM
Little Goose laughs and says:  ready to roll for early Sunday morning down 59 into Houston and church at 80 mph.  Watch for crap on freeway and idiot cagers.

Dazzle the civilians and joust the winds and rains....

Ciao!