Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Toecutter on July 11, 2016, 10:00:31 AM
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Ok. Possible stupid question.
First, the issue.
Both my and my wife's V7s have (as of this weekend) had the same issue.
Mine happened at about 8000-ish km. Mid ride, started surging, loss of power, cooked my right muffler. Blued before and and after the Cat. Mine required a call to roadside and a tow into the shop. Issue? Plug boot. Still waiting on replacement muffler 8 weeks later, gotta love Piaggio's "snap to it" service philosophy.
My wife's happened mid-road trip this past weekend. She's at about 3500 km. Highway speeds, loss of power, pulled over, same deal. Pipes blued before and after Cat. Hers, however, cleared up and ran fine afterwards. Appointment made, under warranty. We'll see what they say.
So...
My questions, possibly stupid:
1)Are all plug boots "resistors"? I ask because I made the mistake of combining a resistor cap with a resistor plug on one of my SOHC CB750s, and it resulted in piss-poor performance, until I figured it out and went back to a non-resistor plug.
2) any suggestions for boots? I've had good results with NGK on my SOHCs... but curious if anyone has replaced them and had good results, and if so, with what?
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Both the boots and the plugs have resistors on the V7s and V7IIs. I know it seems redundant and possibly not a good idea, but that's the way they come. Some have suggested replacement boots on other threads here, but they all seem to have resistors.
I have never had plug boot problems on my V7 and V7II, but I avoid riding in the rain.
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Service claims it's due to them being "easily torn"... I am skeptical. But... as it's under warranty... they can spend all the money they want on fixing it.
For the record, both bikes have the latest factory map, and are in mechanically stock condition (until warranty is up, and then it's "game on").
As for this "issue"... my dealer has seen about a half dozen of them, all with V7s.
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This is a common issue as you have found out.
Here is a short tech article from Moto International
http://www.motointernational.com/service/tech-update-all-single-throttle-body-moto-guzzi-v7-models
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This is a common issue as you have found out.
Here is a short tech article from Moto International
http://www.motointernational.com/service/tech-update-all-single-throttle-body-moto-guzzi-v7-models
Those recommended replacements still have resistors in both the plugs and the caps. The difference is that the recommended replacement CPR8EA-9 plug has a threaded terminal, rather than the solid terminal of the OEM CPR8EB-9 plug, and the replacement cap is designed to engage the threaded terminal. The new combo presumably makes a more secure connection
Incidentally, both the CPR8EA-9 and CPR8EB-9 plugs come with 0.9 mm gaps. Although Moto Guzzi specifies a smaller 0.6-0.7 mm gap, I find that the engines run better with the 0.9 mm gaps.
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Dave. Nice! Thank you for that.
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XD05F
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The same thing happened to me two weeks ago. My V7 Stone is not under warranty anymore and only has about 4Kms on it. I replaced the plugs and plug covers using the parts listed in the Moto International article. With some help from this forum, the installation was pretty painless too.
I haven't gotten around to replace the mufflers yet. Luckily, I found a low mileage pair available on ebay. They arrived late last week. Replacing the mufflers would have cost me a pretty penny had I needed to buy new ones.
The bike is running fine now... (I am crossing my fingers).
Cheers,
Mike
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I've heard of plug boot/wire issues on other late model V7s. Odd. It's not new technology. Makes me feel like two steps forwards, one step back....
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This happened to me on my 2013 V7 Special. Do the pipes have to be replaced? What about the cat?
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Cats are in the pipes. Most likely badly damaged by the fuel combusting in them.
Pete
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Cats are in the pipes. Most likely badly damaged by the fuel combusting in them.
Pete
So do the pipes need to be replaced? I think the local shop just replaced a spark plug or some such...
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My muffler is being replaced under warranty... ya know... whenever Piaggio gets around to it. But, it's been approved by them... however, it's *almost* August, so it's probably "nearly-time-to-shut-down better-start-shuttin'-down" time. So I might see it around November.
Another question... are the stock boots the "screw on" type? Or do I have to cut the wires to get them off? How about at the coil side of things?
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I need to get my V7S in to the dealer to get the process of having the left muffler replaced.
It looks just like the one pictured on M.I.'s tech update.
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My dealer has seen more than a half-dozen of them just like it.
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If these dealers ever bothered reading the Servicepiaggio website they would see the problem is known an a 'Technocal Update', (Piaggio weasel-word-speak for a recall announced.
Pete
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My dealer told me that Piaggio was denying that it was an issue at all.
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The same thing happened to me two weeks ago. My V7 Stone is not under warranty anymore and only has about 4Kms on it. I replaced the plugs and plug covers using the parts listed in the Moto International article. With some help from this forum, the installation was pretty painless too.
I haven't gotten around to replace the mufflers yet. Luckily, I found a low mileage pair available on ebay. They arrived late last week. Replacing the mufflers would have cost me a pretty penny had I needed to buy new ones.
The bike is running fine now... (I am crossing my fingers).
Cheers,
Mike
Did you have to run new wires, or do the stock plug covers just screw off?
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Alas, I thought I was done with tinkering for this summer after replacing the VR and fuel filter...
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Surprised there isn't more discussion on this.Do you replace the whole wire? How difficult is it?Is this just an issue with the V7s?Why hasn't it been an issue with the older bikes?
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Only an issue with some V7's Why? Because they are built down to the lowest price possible and rather than using NGK caps like they used to they now use some sort of bogan 'No-Name' cap that probably saves them a few cents a bike. Then it all goes udders skywards and they have to have a 'Technical Update' which is the recall you have when you don't want to admit you're having a recall and can therefore avoid the legal ramifications of one. It's the Piaggio way. Isn't it grand?
Actually it has been an issue with the 1200's as well but not as bad, their caps don't just fall to bits like the V7 ones. They only fail if you butcher them taking them off the plugs but its very easy to do and could be easily avoided by using a better cap.
Pete
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Not sure if these numbers fit the V7 but for info purposes-
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=61267.0
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Only an issue with some V7's Why? Because they are built down to the lowest price possible and rather than using NGK caps like they used to they now use some sort of bogan 'No-Name' cap that probably saves them a few cents a bike. Then it all goes udders skywards and they have to have a 'Technical Update' which is the recall you have when you don't want to admit you're having a recall and can therefore avoid the legal ramifications of one. It's the Piaggio way. Isn't it grand?
Actually it has been an issue with the 1200's as well but not as bad, their caps don't just fall to bits like the V7 ones. They only fail if you butcher them taking them off the plugs but its very easy to do and could be easily avoided by using a better cap.
Pete
Without disagreeing, I'd like to make a couple of more positive points. First, these motorcycles are remarkably inexpensive, considering what you get. I got my first V7, a '13 Stone, for $8300, the MSRP, and if I had waited a while, I would have paid even less. Second, most owners (myself included) have NOT had problems with the spark plug caps, even if they are not of the highest quality. Every manufactured product is a compromise between quality and cost. I think that Piaggio and Moto Guzzi got this one almost perfectly right, quite an accomplishment.
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8k and I am already having issues with Boot to Plug arcing. The tip of the plug shows scars and I have intermittent strong vibrations at hiway speeds. Replacing the boots but bummed cause I just baught 4 plugs with hard tips cant screw them off! Oh well.
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when I did the 600 mile service on my 2015 V7 the left hand wire fell out of the boot as I took the cover off. it had no misfire but I wonder if this isn't the true problem. the other side was 2 turns loose also. I guess the Italians just don't like to screw any more. the bike now has 8000 miles on it and it runs great.
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Hey, Vagrant!
Need some verification before I start yanking and twisting... the boots *are* the screw-on type, correct?
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yes, I forgot to say I did cut about 1/4" off the wire end of the one that fell off.
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I am experienced with this problem also. During my two year warranty period, a Champion spark plug installed from the dealer at a scheduled maintenance tune up "shorted out" and burned up the left catalytic converter. Bought a suitable stock replacement set on Ebay, as MG offered no warranty replacement. Engine replaced under warranty at 20,400 miles (another long, disappointing story) and bad NGK spark plug and bad plug wire caps on the new motor caused the right catalytic converter to burn up. New motor supposedly under warranty until March 2017, but no help from MG. Dealer replaced spark plugs and one O2 sensor, and pulled a set of "new and improved" plug wires and caps from a new V7II and put them on my bike, and I paid for it all. Bought a pair of Mistral Racer reverse cone slip on mufflers. Purchased new in February 2014, currently have 25,000 miles on it, and have yet to make it between an oil change interval without problem.
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....Dealer replaced spark plugs and one O2 sensor, and pulled a set of "new and improved" plug wires from a new V7II and put them on my bike....
Your dealer is lying to you. The V7II plug wires are identical (same part numbers) as the previous ones.
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So which plug cap is it:
MI's NGK XBO5F, or
Pete Roper's NGK XDO5F?
Is there agreement on the spark plug, NGK CPR8EA-9?
And where is the likely place to obtain the caps? I've been web searching some of my local auto parts stores websites for that NGK part and they don't have them. And it's too late on the Saturday afternoon to start calling local MC shops.
I'll email my local MG dealer and ask them about the tech update. Closed til Tuesday, though.
Thanks,
Steve.
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Without looking at the NGK book or website Steve I can't remember what the differences are with the second letter for the caps. It might just designate a difference in the angle at the elbow. What I can remember is the suffix letter which relates to the top electrode fitting of the cap. F designates the larger electrode, E designates the threaded top. When fitting aftermarket caps it is sometimes necessary to change the plugs to fit the caps. Over here for instance you cannot get XD05E caps which means you have to swap to a plug with a different electrode fitting.
Essentially though as long as the plug has the right reach, thread and heat range it really doesn't matter if it has one electrode or two. Consult the book, match up the plug and cap, install, ride.
Pete
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Thanks, Pete, I appreciate the input.
Steve.
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So which plug cap is it:
MI's NGK XBO5F, or
Pete Roper's NGK XDO5F?
Is there agreement on the spark plug, NGK CPR8EA-9?
And where is the likely place to obtain the caps? I've been web searching some of my local auto parts stores websites for that NGK part and they don't have them. And it's too late on the Saturday afternoon to start calling local MC shops.
I'll email my local MG dealer and ask them about the tech update. Closed til Tuesday, though.
Thanks,
Steve.
Here is what I could find on the difference between the XB and XD. Seems to be the plug diameter.
(http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/x/b/xbxd_spec.gif)
Image found here: http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/ngk-plug-cap-xb05f
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Logically you would think that the XB05F caps were for a B sized plug....but a B sized (14mm) plug does not fit inside them.......while they fit the CPR8EA-9 plug perfectly.
And the plug cap fits down the hole in the cylinder fine.
Not installed mine yet as the originals are OK but it looks like the XB05F / CPR8EA-9 combination is right.
AndyB
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Great info, guys, thanks!
Steve.