What'cha think of these codes

[benebob]

Cleared codes (none active but stored) 2 days ago after taking a phone pic that was washed out in the sun but I know the first one for a left bank o2 sensor high output.  After about 100 miles I pulled 'em again today.  Again nothing active but this is what I got from stored p0501 Invalid Signal p502 Invalid  Signal and p0611 Invalid signal.  Bike runs worse than an amf harley but nothing has really changed on that front in the 4k I've had it.  Should I be calling the dealer or is that just a waste of time. 

[Sykestone8886]

My AMF Harley runs just fine !!!

[Murray]

Have you looked up what sensors P501 P501 and p611 are? Let me google that for you https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/13-v7-v9-miu-ecu-error-codes.12522/ 611 needs to be reset though PADS and PADS only they other two are related to the speedo sensor. You are not trying to ride it like and AMF harley per chance?

[benebob]

Yeah I looked 'em up but not a whole lot of info anywhere showing on a search for a v7 with those codes.  Is it even worth wasting my time with a dealer as they aren't active codes.  Will they just offer lip service like they do about the fact that it runs horrible and try to tell me that is how a v7 runs. 

[Murray]

611 is for the ECU performance and you think its not running correctly, this is likely to be more than a coincidence?

[benebob]

611 is for the ECU performance and you think its not running correctly, this is likely to be more than a coincidence?

Ah but it hasn't run well since I bought the POS (could smoke a cigarette, drink a cup of coffee and take a crap before the thing is warmed up enough to actually run, dead spot at 4.1k, pops and farts, bucks on low load running).  It has been in at the dealer three times now for warranty work (including a new engine).  One would assume that they would have checked codes.  Is this as good at it gets?

[antmanbee]

I have to say I am sorry for you and your continuing problems with your bike.
I think it still should be sorted out by the dealer though.

[Kiwi_Roy]

P0501 & P0502 are gibberish, what does that mean in plain English?

[benebob]

501 is speed sensor is over its limit or not a valad range
502 ecu getting a different reading from wheel sensor and speed sensor.

[mechanicsavant]

I’m with you my 16 V7II ran very similar to what you describe. Occasionally it would stall while warming up ,just as it went closed loop. A flat spot the size of Nebraska ! The dealer was of little to no help.
Many suggested a new map & they are very likely correct. I didn’t feel an extra outlay of approximately $500 was prudent as it had under 1k Mi. & the drivability issue should be the Mfg’s responsibility.
Against the opinion of many here & on other websites I tried a pair of O2 sensor signal modifiers, for which I was severely castigated!
A huge improvement was noticed almost immediately. Now with over 12k Mi. So far so good . As I was informed this is a band aid approach . Mileage is around 50 mpg. Oil consumption is minimal , plugs look good , no pinging or other signs of poor running & head temps are pretty even .
Sooo until get a cash windfall or easier access to a capable computer technician I’m sticking with what has worked OK so far. I don’t dought the benefit of custom mapping , its just not in my wheelhouse @ this moment.

[Kev m]

I’m with you my 16 V7II ran very similar to what you describe. Occasionally it would stall while warming up ,just as it went closed loop. A flat spot the size of Nebraska ! The dealer was of little to no help.
Many suggested a new map & they are very likely correct. I didn’t feel an extra outlay of approximately $500 was prudent as it had under 1k Mi. & the drivability issue should be the Mfg’s responsibility.
Against the opinion of many here & on other websites I tried a pair of O2 sensor signal modifiers, for which I was severely castigated!
A huge improvement was noticed almost immediately. Now with over 12k Mi. So far so good . As I was informed this is a band aid approach . Mileage is around 50 mpg. Oil consumption is minimal , plugs look good , no pinging or other signs of poor running & head temps are pretty even .
Sooo until get a cash windfall or easier access to a capable computer technician I’m sticking with what has worked OK so far. I don’t dought the benefit of custom mapping , its just not in my wheelhouse @ this moment.

Just an FYI, but I'm under the impression that a Bettle map is about $100, not $500.

[benebob]

Just an FYI, but I'm under the impression that a Bettle map is about $100, not $500.

Not an option for me as it will void the warranty I would assume  Would go that route if the bike wasn't a complete pile of dog waste on the reliability spectrum..  Guzzi can buy at back as a safety defect long before then as ithas a habit of stalling pulling out into traffic before I put a map on it that they should've done at the factory.

[oldbike54]

 This is the first case I've heard of a V7iii needing a new engine , and I track this pretty closely . Out of curiosity , what failed in the motor that caused a complete replacement ?

 As for a beetle map voiding the warranty , I don't believe that to be true anymore than a spoofer voiding the warranty . All a spoofer does is add more fuel across the rev range , a beetle map adds and subtracts fuel at different points .

 Dusty

[Kev m]

It's not a III Dusty, it's a II.

And you're wasting your breath.

[oldbike54]

It's not a III Dusty, it's a II.

And you're wasting your breath.

 Ahh , so probably a thrust washer issue .

 Look fellas , no doubt this is frustrating , but we have witnessed these issues resolved in a satisfactory fashion several times , yes it takes patience, we are after all dealing with a small Italian motorcycle maker , not Honda or the MoCo , who occasionally mess up also . My best suggestion , always listen to people who have vast experience with Moto Guzzi , or sell the bike and buy a Honda . More accurately , buy a Yamaha , they have the best reliability rating currently .

 Dusty

[benebob]

Ahh , so probably a thrust washer issue .

 Look fellas , no doubt this is frustrating , but we have witnessed these issues resolved in a satisfactory fashion several times , yes it takes patience, we are after all dealing with a small Italian motorcycle maker , not Honda or the MoCo , who occasionally mess up also . My best suggestion , always listen to people who have vast experience with Moto Guzzi , or sell the bike and buy a Honda . More accurately , buy a Yamaha , they have the best reliability rating currently .

 Dusty

Dealer told me changing the map is not only illegal emissions wise for a road bike but voids the warranty so I should give Guzzi a pass for selling crap because they are small or because they are Italian?  Naw, they can fix it or they can buy it back.  Funny out of the 4000 miles it has been ridden 1/8th of those miles have been to the dealer for repairs.

[benebob]

It's not a III Dusty, it's a II.

And you're wasting your breath.

Yes, believing a company should sell a product that doesn't stall while riding is so beyond reasonable.  Maybe if I smoke the magic fairy dust I won't care. 

[Kev m]

Ahh , so probably a thrust washer issue .

 Dusty

Definitely, if you think back or check back on his old threads.

And it was a crappy situation, a dealer sold it to him over winter who was going out of business and the problem developed as he was breaking it in

He may have missed the updates on the issue, why Guzzi and the dealer couldn't know which motors/bikes were effected until they failed etc. But I'm sure it was a pia.

As for further running issues from the descriptions it is hard to tell, but it could be more than just the warm-up thing (which still effects my 13, but since that's the only issue and it goes away if I warm it up for a minute or two it's never elevated itself to a need like these guys seem to be describing).


Meanwhile Bene, have fun storming the castl.... Uh, I mean, have fun tilting at windmills...

[Kev m]

Yes, believing a company should sell a product that doesn't stall while riding is so beyond reasonable.  Maybe if I smoke the magic fairy dust I won't care.

No, he's wasting his breath because you've demonstrated no willingness to listen to anyone here.

I'm really not interested in addressing your complaints any further for that reason. I was only commenting so MechSav would realize there are options.

Like I said, have fun tilting....

[malik]

Yes, it should have been sorted at the dealer, but much depends on the skill set & accumulated experience available there to diagnose problems.

It seems to me, operating from a position of abysmal ignorance & stabbing in the dark, that those error codes point you in a direction. One or other (or both) those speed sensors are playing up, or their handshake to the ECU is. And something in the FI module is wonky. The dealer should now have something to work with.

The dead spot at 4,000rpm may be connected, or may be another thing altogether. I had similar on the V7C (different ECU, mind) - dead spot at around 3,500-4,000 rpm, first started at about 40,000km, and persisted until I swapped out the TPS at 170,000km. No dealer, or anyone else for that matter, had much of a clue. It's all black magic in there. The problem with the TPS (a simple potentiometer - so when the throttle is operated, the effect should be linear) seems the be that a flat spot had worn there and at about 3,500 - 4,000 rpm the effect was no longer linear. There was never any error on this logged in the ECU. I didn't find it until I determined to test each sensor - and the TPS happened to be one of the early ones I got to (and learned how to test).

In a perfect world, it should all work right straight out of the box, forever. In the next perfect world, any problems should be easily identified & easily fixed. But it ain't perfect. And now that I've finally got the V7C running really, really well, the clutch is slipping again. But I've an idea why (a failing seal) and know how to fix it.

[benebob]

No, he's wasting his breath because you've demonstrated no willingness to listen to anyone here.

I'm really not interested in addressing your complaints any further for that reason. I was only commenting so MechSav would realize there are options.

Like I said, have fun tilting....

Sure when I'm told to spend more money to make things run the way they should from new or wait 2 months for a new engine that ain't gonna happen as it simply isn't right  This Guzzi has already spent more time in a shop then every other bike I owned combined in 7 months.  I'm similar to MechSav in that I shouldn't need to pay more than the MSRP to get a bike to run stop and not stall. 

[Kev m]

Like I said, you have no interest in listening.

[benebob]

Yes, it should have been sorted at the dealer, but much depends on the skill set & accumulated experience available there to diagnose problems.

It seems to me, operating from a position of abysmal ignorance & stabbing in the dark, that those error codes point you in a direction. One or other (or both) those speed sensors are playing up, or their handshake to the ECU is. And something in the FI module is wonky. The dealer should now have something to work with.

The dead spot at 4,000rpm may be connected, or may be another thing altogether. I had similar on the V7C (different ECU, mind) - dead spot at around 3,500-4,000 rpm, first started at about 40,000km, and persisted until I swapped out the TPS at 170,000km. No dealer, or anyone else for that matter, had much of a clue. It's all black magic in there. The problem with the TPS (a simple potentiometer - so when the throttle is operated, the effect should be linear) seems the be that a flat spot had worn there and at about 3,500 - 4,000 rpm the effect was no longer linear. There was never any error on this logged in the ECU. I didn't find it until I determined to test each sensor - and the TPS happened to be one of the early ones I got to (and learned how to test).

In a perfect world, it should all work right straight out of the box, forever. In the next perfect world, any problems should be easily identified & easily fixed. But it ain't perfect. And now that I've finally got the V7C running really, really well, the clutch is slipping again. But I've an idea why (a failing seal) and know how to fix it.

Thanks, going in on Monday.  Didn't even think about the TPS (as my problem has been there from the first ride home).  It isn't noticable in lower gears but in 5th or 6th it is as if your hand slips off the throttle at 4100rpm.  I tend to think it is simply running far leaner than it should simply by the smell of things.

[oldbike54]

 So here is the decision we are all faced with on occasion in these situations , do we want to fix what is wrong , or do we move on . One thing I've learned in my now long life , yelling at the clouds doesn't resolve anything .

 Benebob , we will help if you're interested , otherwise I suggest you move on , WG is a Guzzi enthusiast board , the fastest way to alienate the collective is to refuse help . Are we clear on this ? We get it , this is frustrating , but everyone of us has dealt with some heartburn because of our choice in motorbikes .

 As for the dealer claiming that a warranty is voided because of a map change , it is simple enough to reinstall the stock map if there is an issue , probably less trouble than removing a spoofer , which likely also voids the warranty .

 Dusty

[pete roper]

Thanks, going in on Monday.  Didn't even think about the TPS (as my problem has been there from the first ride home).  It isn't noticable in lower gears but in 5th or 6th it is as if your hand slips off the throttle at 4100rpm.  I tend to think it is simply running far leaner than it should simply by the smell of things.

The TPS isn't replaceable as a separate part on the MUIG3 I believe.

[Bulldog9]

Benebob,  arent you the guy who insisted on riding the bike knowing you had a bad thrust washer and was in a battle with your dealer?  I'm assuming based on your post that the dealer replaced the motor and now it runs poorly?

As you were on here griping about the bike back a few months, how and when did the dealer replace the motor? Obviously Guzzi came to the table as did your dealer, would be good to hear how that worked out. They obviously goofed something on the install.

This begs the question, has it run bad from the moment you picked it up after the motor replacement?  If so, why are you dinking around with it, trying to figure out what is wrong, and why dont you bring it back and leave it there till its FIXED.... Something is obviously not right, leave it at the dealer man..... Bitching and moaning on the internet may make you feel better but its not going to get your bike fixed. SIMPLE MATH... Its throwing check engine light, not running and under warranty = DEALER.  You're welcome

 

[80CX100]

Bitching and moaning on the internet may make you feel better but its not going to get your bike fixed. SIMPLE MATH... Its throwing check engine light, not running and under warranty = DEALER.  You're welcome

+1

[beetle]

501 speed sensor:

The sensors are connected to the ABS unit. It's either a bad connection or a bad sensor. If it's not active, ignore it.

502 ECU speed error:

The ECU acknowledged the ABS speed sensor error. If it's not active, ignore it.

611:

Bullshit error that means nothing. It's a log file written by the ECU with all the bad things that have happened. It can only be deleted by PADS. Ignore it.


Cold start problem affects quite a few V7's (all single throttle body versions), but not all of them. It's due to the TPS in the MIU G3 ECU. The ECU is a "value" (ahem) item, and the TPS has a deficiency that can manifest itself in some bikes. I developed a workaround in the map that eliminates the symptoms.

Flat spot could be TPS, but also fuelling. That's the area where open loop mode starts. It would be worth resetting the fuel trims (autolearning parameters). That can easily done by pulling the ECU fuse for a couple of minutes, or disconnecting the battery. That could potentially fix the load speed bucking. It will likely come back as the ECU trims in closed loop again.

Popping on the overrun is common, even in bikes with no air leaks in the exhaust and can be fixed by remapping. It's not problematic, just annoying.

[oldbike54]

 ^^^See how easy that was , thanks Mark .

 Dusty

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes thanks Mark.
Roy