Author Topic: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?  (Read 7430 times)

Offline Yukonica

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Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« on: October 22, 2019, 09:28:39 PM »
I have this weird urge to fly south (in an airplane) next spring to buy a used middleweight sport touring machine to ride home. My V7 is a great 'little' bike but I'd like some creature comfort and another 45 horses at the throttle when I visit friends in Palmer or Fairbanks; a thousand km away. Hatchers Pass on the V7 is a blast. Getting there is not as much fun. So I've begun looking for a machine. I don't want a behemoth sport touring machine that I'd need a tow truck to get it back on two wheels if I dropped it in a parking lot. I don't need a 'adventure bike'. I live here. I ride pavement 95 % of the time (between construction zones). Honda VFR 800 and BMW F800GT are where my skills and mind set are. There is nothing on the market I'd want to buy new.
If the poster child engine for the new 850 was wrapped in street clothes instead of hiking shoes, a Lemans 5... ish,  I'd be there.
Pick a manufacturer, a model, and a year. Where are the bikes that just do the job without the Africa Twin tour the world marketing?
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Offline Gusable

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 09:41:05 PM »
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Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 09:48:49 PM »
  VFR>F800
MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Offline Seventy One

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 09:59:04 PM »
Versys 1000LT.

The 17" front wheel means it's definitely not an Adventure bike.


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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 09:59:04 PM »

Offline Ncdan

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 10:07:47 PM »
Older inline 4 cylinder jap bike could easily fit that description

Online PJPR01

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 10:09:38 PM »
1st or 2nd generation Norge fits the bill quite well...550 lbs, creature comforts, a blast to ride, enough wind protection, and if you did drop it, you could pick it up.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 10:10:43 PM by PJPR01 »
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Offline Yukonica

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 10:25:59 PM »
1st or 2nd generation Norge fits the bill quite well...550 lbs, creature comforts, a blast to ride, enough wind protection, and if you did drop it, you could pick it up.
Norge is far and away my first choice. Had my target lined up but it was a good deal and I knew it wouldn't be around before I'd be down south. I'd actually prefer a 2 valve but will look at what comes my way. The F800GT is next best in my mind but it is belt drive. Never owned or ridden belt vehicle. Picking up rocks in construction zones concerns me.
I know a bunch of HD guys up here but I rarely see them more than 100 km from a town. Belts may not be an issue... or it might. Has anyone won a Dakar or a GP on a belt vehicle?
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Offline Yukonica

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 10:33:52 PM »
Any VFR (Honda 750), from '90 to '97. 100 hp at the crank, single side swing arm, under $2,000..simply brilliant. Probably can sell for same price as purchased in that year range.

:-)
I had a 1983 vf750f (the original cam-eater) that I put 75,000km on. I'd buy a vfr in a heart beat if it presents itself.
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 10:53:48 PM »
here's mine, 450 lb and 113 HP

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Offline Yukonica

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 11:08:01 PM »
here's mine, 450 lb and 113 HP


Beauty! ST are on my list too. ST3 in particular. Know nothing of Ducati so maintenance intimidates me. There isn't a shop within 2000 km of here. If I buy it; I maintain it.
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Offline Yukonica

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 12:21:11 AM »
That's the icing on the cake, there is a Honda dealer in every town of ...10K+ population...

Try that with a Duc or Guzzi..support important in an unknown history.

I like the idea and have done it ...adventure for sure.

Another choice is the Suzuki GS fours.. pretty much bullet proof, cheap and shaft possible.(although I prefer chain.

When I bought this V7 it arrived in Yukon in the same shipping crate it had left in from Italy. There were 12 kilometers on the clock. I'd never sat on a modern Guzzi. I hadn't sat on a Guzzi since 1985. And... I know diddly squat about mechanics.
oh! Look! A cliff! Let's jump off!
The V7's simplicity and the gracious sharing of knowledge here-in has made owning this bike one of the most satisfying machines in my life. It will remain so. Never for sale. When I can't ride, it will get parked in my sunroom.

But, I do want to make use of the freedom from traffic up here and a middle weight would be about perfect to run to Alaska and back on long weekends. There isn't much of a pre-owned supply in a market this small so getting south to Edmonton/Calgary or Vancouver is my only option. I'll fly-in with helmet and leathers on Monday and start home on Wednesday ... so to speak. I figure any properly maintained modern machine will hit 100,000 km pretty easily. The bike I'll be looking for will have something in the  30k-60k km range. As long as it is freshly serviced and has good rubber I'll be dodging bison on my way home in no time.
 
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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2019, 01:13:18 AM »
When I did my first US tour back in 2004 I did it on an ancient, (Albeit well set up.) Convert. Neither a fast or a powerful bike but by avoiding interstates I not only met interesting people and saw interesting places but had enormous fun as well.

A 'Vert produces 45 RWHP on a good day, down a mineshaft, with a following gale! If time isn't a major concern and you're travelling solo I wouldn't discount your V7.

If you want something a bit roomier though? Early Norges or Brevas are cheap. All I'd suggest replacing the swingarm bearings and shock linkage before you go on a long trip but apart from that? Get on and go.

Alternatives, non Guzzi? V Strom or an older Japanese four of some sort can be had for next to nothing. If I come back to the US again they will probably be my vehicle of choice, until I see a nice Griso of course..... :rolleyes: :boozing:

Pete

Offline Bobic69

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2019, 01:24:44 AM »
V7 is more than capable of touring. I know guys that travel Oz on old 2 stroke Vespas. Having said that, Breva or Bellagio if you can find one over there or wait and see what Guzzi do next with the new 850 donk.
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Online blu guzz

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2019, 05:57:06 AM »
The question with sport tourers is always, do you want more touring or more sport?  VFRs, Triumphs are nice bikes but you have to like and be able to tolerate long stretches of that riding position.  I have had Harleys and a Victory with a belt drive and really like it.  I think it is the best compromise between a chain and shaft, but, I only ride on unpaved roads on extremely rare occasions.  The next question is what is middle weight for you.  If a gold wing is pushing 900 lbs, is a 630 lb bmw RT middle weight?  Lots of those for cheap.  Rarer are the RS version of the boxer, but they are more like 550 lbs.  Paralever and telelever were great inovations as long as you change to aftermarket shocks.  The bikes are roomy which ads to longer term comfort. Just some thoughts.  But I think the first question I posed is the first one you have to answer.
Blue Guzz

Offline blackbuell

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2019, 06:20:57 AM »
Several years ago I owned two 1998 Honda VFR's; great sport-touring bikes. You can buy a brand new left-over one now (2016?) for less than $10,000. I sold mine because, even with bar-risers, the riding position became too uncomfortable on long rides for someone my age (I was 65 at the time). If I were younger I would certainly be interested in buying another VFR and use it for cross-country rides.

I replaced them with a Norge and a BMW F800GT. I love both bikes; on the surface they might seem to be too similar to justify owning both. However, there are significant differences between them, and I use them for different types of riding. The Norge is, by far, more comfortable for cross-country tours, especially if they involve high-speed riding on interstates. I also use it for local two-up day rides.

The F bike is capable of cross-country touring, and I have taken a few 5-6,000 mile rides on it, but it is not as roomy as the Norge, and the motor gets a bit buzzy at interstate speeds. The wind protection on the stock BMW just plain sucks, but a proper after market windscreen and foil will take care of that problem. I currently use the BMW mainly as a commuter, and for one-up sporty day rides; as it is more nimble than the Norge. I do love the belt drive on the F bike.

I plan to buy a new bike in the next year or so; none the current offerings are suitable for me; don't want a pseudo-adventure-tourer like the Yamaha tracer or the v850tt; too tall for a short, old guy like me. Hopefully, Guzzi will come up with a sport-touring version of the new bike.

Jon

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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2019, 06:38:49 AM »
Shesh, why are you guys recommending anything but a Guzzi?

Why not a 2 Valve Griso, mine was perfectly capable of running to the Arctic circle then back down to Salt Lake City

Where is Huzo when I need him, how many trips around Europe and Australia has his red beauty 2V Norge done?

Do a fly and ride somewhere back East to pick up a low mileage bike from someone on the board that feels like he needs to downsize.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 06:46:04 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2019, 07:09:43 AM »
I would think the VFR if you are talking "sport touring," but I don't know any thing about them. I'm only *assuming* a Honda would be bullet proof. I would say Norge, but I do know something about them, and I don't like the electronics. I'd avoid a belt drive if there is a lot of gravel. I'd avoid a Duck like the plague if you don't work on them. Likewise, Bavarian Money Wasters are just that if you don't work on them, and sometimes you can't. "That'll be two thousand dollars, sir.."  :smiley:
Yeah, you need hard bags. Like Pete, I'd go anywhere on the old G5, but there is a certain amount of maintenance involved. That leads me back to Honda.
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Offline steven c

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2019, 07:32:15 AM »
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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2019, 08:38:08 AM »
Like Kiwi Roy, I'd recommend an 1100 Griso, in particular, my own 1100 Griso with a coated dash PCB and electronic cruise control.

But you can't have it. So maybe a Honda with a cruise control would be nice.

Moto

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2019, 09:12:23 AM »
Beauty! ST are on my list too. ST3 in particular. Know nothing of Ducati so maintenance intimidates me. There isn't a shop within 2000 km of here. If I buy it; I maintain it.

The Duc Supersport 939 requires valve adjustments every 18k miles, looks a lot more difficult than a Guzzi.  So yeah, I'll have a mechanic do it.  If you're an adept guy, you can rent a kit with tools, consumables and instructions for DIY.  It doesn't look crazy hard but I wouldn't try it without someone holding my hand (I am the least mechanical person on the board).

For routine maintenance, you'll need some specialized tools, like a rear stand, wheel sockets and an impact gun.  All of it is pretty straight forward.

Cons for the bike are short range (140 miles average) and buzzy mirrors.  Also, the fasteners broke on the saddle back mount (Givi is OEM supplier).  No electric cruise control.  Touring Sport tires have a short life.

Power is good, handling is phenomenal, brakes are great.  Most comfortable bike I own.  ABS and traction control are seamless.  Styling is nice too.   It's the safest bike I've ever ridden and perhaps the fastest I've ever owned.  It's certainly the most capable and user friendly motorcycle I've ever ridden for sporty riding on twisty roads and would take it over a low bar full sportbike any day for that.  For me it would outperform a full on sportbike in every way on the street other than pinning the throttle.

It seems to be the logical successor to the VFR (lighter, better and faster) I am told and has a better tuck riding position and suspension than the FJ-09 IMO.  If you want an upright ride, the Yamaha would be a better choice and has electric cruise and more top end power.  If Yamaha had made the 900 triple into a bike like the Duc, I'd consider it.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 09:18:09 AM by LowRyter »
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Offline Daleroso

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2019, 09:49:04 AM »
Set up my '18 t120 Bonnie as a day ride/long distance sport tourer. 1200cc's, cruise, simple info/ride modes. Canada twice, most of the west, 9K w/ no problems. Easy to ride 350-600 mile days. The only issue for some might be the chain drive. Non issue for me.

Offline kirb

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2019, 10:12:54 AM »
Vstrom 650 or SV650...same engine, bullet proof, can be had on the cheap.
Vstrom if you need more room, SV if short and light is your style.

This is the bike I always suggest to new owners because they won't outgrow it in a few years. You could start and end your riding career with one of these...the same one.

Offline screamday

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2019, 10:34:17 AM »
Surprised nobody has mentioned the Triumph Tiger 800. I will be seriously considering one once I get the Guzzi out of the garage.

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Offline NC Steve

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2019, 12:31:04 PM »
Yamaha FJ09? Light,fast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdnLnCxGEtw

Absolutely. Light, powerful, great handling, reliable and with good dealer support, can be found inexpensively.
A helluva bargain, and a fine all-around bike.
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Offline jpv7

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2019, 12:37:09 PM »
I would think the VFR if you are talking "sport touring," but I don't know any thing about them. I'm only *assuming* a Honda would be bullet proof. I would say Norge, but I do know something about them, and I don't like the electronics. I'd avoid a belt drive if there is a lot of gravel. I'd avoid a Duck like the plague if you don't work on them. Likewise, Bavarian Money Wasters are just that if you don't work on them, and sometimes you can't. "That'll be two thousand dollars, sir.."  :smiley:
Yeah, you need hard bags. Like Pete, I'd go anywhere on the old G5, but there is a certain amount of maintenance involved. That leads me back to Honda.
Not so fast...VFRs are known to fry their stators.  At about 50,000kms.  Seems accurate as 2 guys I know have had theirs fail.  Resolved on the "newer" ones.  My buddy has a 2014 and loves it.

Offline MGrego

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2019, 12:45:28 PM »




Get one of these.  Excellent sport tourer.

Offline Darren Williams

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2019, 12:55:37 PM »
Absolutely. Light, powerful, great handling, reliable and with good dealer support, can be found inexpensively.
A helluva bargain, and a fine all-around bike.

The new sport touring definition. Mine has been great. Only issue is it begs you to ride like a hooligan.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2019, 12:57:25 PM »
I see a V11S above. Yes, it's a really good sport tourer. The Mighty Scura is 500 lbs empty, though. I don't know if it would qualify as a middle weight.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2019, 01:05:12 PM »
The Honda VFR1200X is a very capable sport tourer, though it has some ADV styling cues. Shaft drive, V4, spoked tubeless wheels, dual clutch auto or 6-speed, and big discounts for leftover '16s and '17s. I've heard of discounts as high as 40%. The NC750F is similar, but much less motor. Both are street machines that should not undertake any more than a graded gravel road. Think of them as upright sport-tourers; Honda calls them "Crosstourers."

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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Whatever happened to middle weight sport tourers?
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2019, 02:14:34 PM »
Put a Windjammer on a V7III and away you go. Sport Touring is a fairly new term and doesn't define anything.
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