Clutch noises on sporti

[Old Jock]

Nothing in there is that difficult that an average person can't tackle it.

As I said the only difficult thing it getting the nuts off the back and front of the gearbox to open it. I would not try to bodge them as if you destroy the nuts it could make life difficult, especially the clutch hub. The layshaft (output) can be cut through with a dremel and a wheel utilizing the scallops on the layshaft to get access, but it is a right PIA to do (don't ask me how I know).

After that it's just a case of going slowly taking lots of pictures, labelling (both the parts and the pictures) and tagging and bagging.

The old bearings might be reluctant to remove, but might not be, heat up the casings and see if they come out, I can't remember the temp, it's in the manual and my guide. If they prove reluctant take it to your mechie who will have a slide hammer, heat the case again and use the slide hammer to get them out

A seal puller helps to remove the seals and an installer is useful, but all the seals I've pulled out and installed I didn't use them. For install I used a socket, can't remember how I got them out but it's not that difficult, just go slow.

As far as the crud build up that's not unusual hard place to get into to clean.

Now you've opened it up don't overthink every little thing either............. ................spr ing is not far away and you want to be riding not building

[bigpants]

Ok , so theres been progress. I've put in a new clutch and that all seemed straight forward and I dont really have any obvious reason for concern but before everything goes back on the bike I thought I'd test the clutch. But heres the thing , with the bike in gear and the clutch cabletied on , I cant turn the back wheel. In neutral it spins fine but in gear , once the slack is taken up it is solid. If I rock the wheel and gears back and forth I can see through the starter motor window the the toothed ring rocking , if i tie the clutch on that stops so I'm guessing the clutch is engaging etc . So its like it's the gbx that wont turn. I didnt go in the box when the new clutch was fitted. Turning the engine over from the generator nut at the front all seems normal. But i cannot turn the gearbox via the wheel. Or do I just need to eat more pies ?

[guzzisteve]

If you tiewrap clutch lever to bar(fully disengaged) and in gear you can turn at alt bolt like normal.  BUT not when you try turning the back wheel.
Is that correct what I'm reading? Spark plugs out so it's easy?

[leroy_can]

 Does the clutch feel normal at the lever? Could it be adjustment or something on the new plates causing them to stick together? Like Steve said are the plugs out? If the plugs are out then if you put in in a higher gear 5th even then you should be able turn it from the wheel and then you will know the trans is turning and it is just not disengaging.

[bigpants]

Spark plugs are out . Clutch action feels normal at the lever and yes I can turn engine over (in gear , plugs in or out) via the alternator bolt and all feels normal , but with back wheel off the ground i cant repeat the process using the wheel for leverage ( clutch in or out) . It's like once the slack in the gears is taken up it locks up. Is this just cos I'm too wimpy or normal or abnormal ?

[Old Jock]

As said before you've put into 5th Yes?

You should be able to knock the wheel around in 5th even with the clutch engaged, but when the valve springs start to become compressed it can be a bit more difficult but doable. You may have to knock it round a bit at a time as opposed to just a continuous turn

So you're able to turn the gearbox from the backwheel in neutral, but when you put it into gear, it's solid correct?

It should turn especially with the clutch disengaged (lever puller in), although it may be draggy with new plates

It can't be the transmission downstream of the box if you're able to turn the whole shooting match in neutral but I'm at a loss right now to think of what could be wrong in the gearbox.

DID YOU REPLACE THE CLUTCH HUB?

If you did then you'd have needed to takeoff and re-enstate the clutchshaft nut, it has to be tight as it determines the relative position of the clutchshaft to the mainshaft.

If something is amiss there when you engage a gear you lock the layshaft to the mainshaft and then the clutchshaft. In neutral the gears are engaged but not the shafts (as I recall AFAIK). So only the layshaft is turning

Wait to see what others come up, but I would not attempt to start it until I was able to turn the engine from the rear wheel, as worse case if something is locking in the box it could do a lot of damage

Don't panic just yet as that would be really really unusual, the box is normally pretty much bullet proof. Perhaps more pies and another crack at it

[guzzisteve]

Pretty odd I'd say, like maybe not the trans at all but maybe swingarm exposed drive. If you can turn all with alt bolt but not with rear wheel. I'm trying to think out the box especially if trans was not messed with.

[Old Jock]

Pretty odd I'd say, like maybe not the trans at all but maybe swingarm exposed drive. If you can turn all with alt bolt but not with rear wheel. I'm trying to think out the box especially if trans was not messed with.

That's what I was thinking too Steve but he said in a few posts down, unless I'm reading it wrong, that he can turn the wheel with the box in neutral.

I agree it would certainly be strange for something to be wrong in the box

[bigpants]

Thanks very much everyone. I think that I have probably made a mountain out of a mole hill here. After all the work that's gone into this I was hoping to put it all back together and go riding off into the sunset. And when something didnt seem perfect I panicked a bit. The clutch hub was left alone and the box undisturbed except for the pushrod o-ring conversion and a new plunger o-ring too. But I wasnt turning the wheel in 5th (1st) . And I think the valves might be closed because I remember feeling the starter gear ring go tight when I was lining it up with the clutch hub. I will get back to it tomorrow , put it in 5th and try again.

[Old Jock]

Trying to turn it in 1st will be hard for sure

If the clutch hub was left alone then (apart from the O rings on the pushrods) you've just pulled the box off then put it back on.

I can't think how the box would lock from these actions, it either goes on or it doesn't, there's no fancy alignment or anything after the clutch is installed.

90% sure it'll be fine, let us know how it pans out

[bigpants]

Yup , this is rather embarrassing but I'll put it out there I case it helps anyone else in the future. There was nothing wrong , I dont seem to have the strength to turn it over in first. Also despite being able to see the starter ring disengage slightly from the gearbox when the clutch was pulled it just wasnt enough . More adjustment on the cable and putting the bike in 5th and the clutch seems to work fine. Time to put the bike back together. Did just pull this from my r1's back tyre though.

[Old Jock]

Bad news for the R1 bigpants, but on the plus side perhaps the Sport can now be taken out on a test ride

Glad it's all sorted

John

[Wayne Orwig]

Yup , this is rather embarrassing but I'll put it out there I case it helps anyone else in the future. There was nothing wrong , I dont seem to have the strength to turn it over in first. Also despite being able to see the starter ring disengage slightly from the gearbox when the clutch was pulled it just wasnt enough . More adjustment on the cable and putting the bike in 5th and the clutch seems to work fine. Time to put the bike back together.

Yes, it would be difficult to roll the wheel in 1st gear. 5th shouldn't be too hard to do.

Good luck.

[bigpants]

OK so just a quick final report to put this one to bed. Everything seems fixed. The clutch action is heavier than before but I did get 10 new springs. Also its operation seems very fussy about cable tension , if I back the cable off a bit to get the sort of slack I'd expect at the lever there is a tiny amount of drag and I can't shift out of 1st when stationary. If I tighten the cable that all goes away but there's barely any slack on the cable. But it is all new , I'll let things bed in a bit and I'm sure all will be well. The graunching clutch noise is gone and I donated a plate to my local mechanic for him to make a clutch holding tool.
Thank you so much to everyone for their help. Throttle body set up next.

[Tom H]

Congrats!!

Yes, sometimes new clutches can be finicky.

Tom

[bigpants]

Hmm , I'm not totally happy. I've got a clutch . It has settled down and is consistent. I've done about 200miles on it now. Thing is it is sooo hard . I'm going to end up with carpel tunnel syndrome. I put in 10 new shiny springs from gutsbits in the UK. And also 6 (I think) of those little rubber o-rings on the pushrod. Now I remember that when I put it together it took a tap or two with a hammer to get the o-rings to seat , don't know if that's related. Anyway am I just being a wimp , this is the only guzzi I've ever had and my old springs were very old so I'm not sure where the baseline should be. Or should I be getting that swingarm off again ?

[Chuck in Indiana]

The Kid's carb spot will make your left hand bigger than your right.. It's a chore to ride in town. I've read of people mixing half new springs with old springs to bring lever pressure down.
Or you could suck it up..sports aren't for beginners..

[Old Jock]

All Guzzis (at least of that vintage) have pretty dammed heavy clutches. I just checked mine and it's horrible to hold in for any length of time.

As Chuckee just said riding in traffic with them is an utter pain (literally)

I heard on here of somebody complaining that the O rings made the clutch pull a bit harder, most install 6 or 7.

It's always going to be heavy, but you might be able to lighten it a little

First thing I'd look at is the pushrod, before tearing the engine and gearbox to pieces again.

I'd try the standard seals to replace the O rings. I'd also make sure all the linkages and the cable are well lubed and ensure you can operate the cable freely, when you have it disconnected, if it's sticky or draggy that in itself can make a difference

I'd just start with the easier fixes first and then progress to more radical surgery as required.

Again as Chuck has alluded to you could try mixing and matching springs, some Ducati riders reduce the number of springs on their clutches to reduce the pull. The downside is if you ride hard it may start to slip at the top end and longevity overall won't be as long

The only other solution is a RAM but I wouldn't recommend it as they also have a poor record when it comes to longevity. If you are hell bent on lightening the pull drop me a PM I think I've a RAM here that was on my 1100 for a very short space of time.

I replaced it with the OEM setup as I was in at the gbx anyway so decided to revert back to the heavier pull but longer lived clutch.

[John A]

Those ten spring clutches can be a handful.  They are the way to go if you’re looking for longevity but it helps to have a strong hand. You could consider a hydraulic actuation is it’s too much effort. I milked cows by hand as a kid so I use ten Barnett springs ( stiffer) without trouble. I also have my lever spaced away from the bar so that I can give it plenty of free play and still get good release of the plates.

[bigpants]

Guess which idiot chucked his old springs in the recycling? They did measure up at below minimum as set in the book. Well in a way its good news as it suggests that there may not be anything wrong. I'll live with it a bit longer and see if the bike pixies come and sort it whilst I'm napping.

[Tom H]

You might also check the clutch lever angle on the trans. Not sure what it should be for your bike, but I think a Loop was like about 90 degrees to the cable

Tom.