Author Topic: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?  (Read 1694 times)

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2021, 08:54:42 AM »
^^^^^^^

I can be as easily offended as the next snowflake  :grin:, but I have not noticed any particular "disagreeableness" on the part of TWA.   :boxing:

OTOH, his praise for adaptive cruise control is absolutely nuts; ACC is, IMO, the devil's work.   :evil:

So, maybe we can drift this thread over to discussing the excessive technology in new cars. 

We recently bought a new Honda Fit. One of the reasons -- aside from its 2009 stablemate having 256K miles on its odo -- was that one can turn off almost every one of the "assists."  We have a friend with one of the new big Subs.  He's stuck with everything.  Now, before I have to plead guilty to first-degree ludditeness, be aware that I leave most of those functions on, but ACC is maddening. 

If no one bites on this, I'll just sulk.  Kathi says it's one of my talents.  :azn:

Bill

I haven’t shown my wife where the one button to turn off all the driver aides is located on the new Mazda. I drove the car this morning and turned on the cruise a 10 above the speed limit on a two lane road. The guy in front of me varied his speed and the Mazda adjusted without me having to do anything but steer.  It even brought the car to a full stop and held the brake until the guy started moving again and went back up to speed. Definitely reduces driver fatigue.

The blind spot monitoring and lane assist as well a pedestrian alert should keep us safer as we age and have more difficulty with blind spot head checks.
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2021, 08:55:48 AM »
I'm not playing.  Go bait another hook.

Good choice.
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2021, 12:07:35 PM »
Being offended is a personal chose I'm told.  I didn't know that pointing out why some people knock down technology to hide their fear of it would be offensive.  Should I be offended because I use said technology that is being bashed?  So much negatively that many thrive on.

 Interesting analysis , except it is incorrect . First , who is bashing the technology ? Second , not needing something doesn't indicate a fear of it , only that some of us prefer a more pure experience , call it a lack of need . Some of us rarely if ever visit a large city where this high zoot tech might actually be useful , out in open country a compass is about all most of us really need , right ? Maybe simple is better , or maybe I always know the compass points . We're riding motorbikes , not attempting to locate the moon from the seat , although I have read that after the first visit the pilots flying the Apollo vehicles had a pretty good idea where it is and how to find it .

 See , anything that distracts from the pure experience is just that , a distraction , although it was kinda cool to have a certain Triumph triple verify by his GPS that we had truly broken the tonne on a rural highway in SE Oklahoma , on one of those roads you found so uninteresting , of course i was pretty sure we had anyway .

 Have a nice day

 The Sultan
It is in the darkness of their eyes that men get lost .

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2021, 12:58:11 PM »
Interesting analysis , except it is incorrect . First , who is bashing the technology ? Second , not needing something doesn't indicate a fear of it , only that some of us prefer a more pure experience , call it a lack of need . Some of us rarely if ever visit a large city where this high zoot tech might actually be useful , out in open country a compass is about all most of us really need , right ? Maybe simple is better , or maybe I always know the compass points . We're riding motorbikes , not attempting to locate the moon from the seat , although I have read that after the first visit the pilots flying the Apollo vehicles had a pretty good idea where it is and how to find it .

 See , anything that distracts from the pure experience is just that , a distraction , although it was kinda cool to have a certain Triumph triple verify by his GPS that we had truly broken the tonne on a rural highway in SE Oklahoma , on one of those roads you found so uninteresting , of course i was pretty sure we had anyway .

 Have a nice day

 The Sultan

Something is only a distraction if you let it distract you.  Speedometers can be a distraction alleviated by having electronic cruise control.  No need to continuously check your speed. 

So, I am guessing you only ride naked bikes with very little instrumentation and ride without a helmet so you can truly experience riding without distractions. 

Having to constantly check for street signs, or looking at the compass, or the position of the sun and the time can be a distraction alleviated by having a GPS device. 

What else do you have oh Sultan.   
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2021, 12:58:11 PM »

Offline Kev m

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2021, 01:35:35 PM »
Wow, uh, ok, maybe I should just leave without posting (but where would the fun be in that).

* I don't get the luddite hate of the tech thing even though I DO get the fun of figuring it out without the tech and getting lost and being surprised.

* I don't believe some of you who say you memorize the route. I mean, I DO believe you if you only go 50 miles on roads you already know. I don't believe you if you were doing what I was doing last week - 200-250 miles of backroads, three or four handwritten route cards of turns with street names or route numbers and directions and sometimes mileage between points.

* I don't have a permanent mount/install for a GPS on any of my bikes, but my concession was that I did get a handlebar bag with a phone display pocket on top. In the year or so I've been using it now I'm starting to move away from my route cards. Damn it can be handy. And for those who say they like to be surprised, you can just select the right preferences on the route or better yet, ignore it for a little while and take other turns, then you'll be surprised when it routes you back toward the desired destination. Easy-Peasy.

I will say that The Google tried to screw me two separate days last week. I used it to help create a route and then wrote out route cards using the "steps" feature (which summarizes turns/road names/distances). Then two separate days Jenn and I found ourselves saying "wait, that road never showed up" and we wound up pulling over to check the route.

One time was genuinely hilarious as The Goodle had literally left 40-50 MILES of directions off the route telling us to follow Bla bla bla road 3.9 miles and then turn onto Bla Bla Bla road. After it didn't show in 4-5 miles we pulled over and checked the map view. The road just wasn't there. So we skipped ahead in the route cards, looked at the roads on it further down the line, and plotted a way to rejoin the route cards. About 50 miles later VIOLA we FOUND the missing road (by accident as we were heading for the next set of roads on the original route). The Google had literally just left out how to get from A to B. Oh well, see we used the tech, we were surprised, we plotted our way out - all good.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 08:29:38 PM by Kev m »
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2021, 02:18:21 PM »
Something is only a distraction if you let it distract you.  Speedometers can be a distraction alleviated by having electronic cruise control.  No need to continuously check your speed. 

So, I am guessing you only ride naked bikes with very little instrumentation and ride without a helmet so you can truly experience riding without distractions. 

Having to constantly check for street signs, or looking at the compass, or the position of the sun and the time can be a distraction alleviated by having a GPS device. 

What else do you have oh Sultan.

 What else do I have , oh almost a million miles on street bikes W/O any electronic assistance .

 Here is reality , some folks are more interested in Gadgets than they are in just the experience , and there is nothing wrong with that . I thoroughly enjoy having a simple flip phone that allows me to stay in contact with dozens of people and understand that said phone is a direct result of technology , that doesn't indicate a need to have some device that removes all of the wonder of life . Some of us simply prefer a less cluttered existence , don't want or need multiple motorbikes , the latest in technical advances . Call it a distillation of needs , a way to live that isn't reliant on stuff .

 As for my preference in equipment on a motorbike , well , a simple touring device suffices , the Aerofoil keeps the bugs and rain off of me , the panniers carry stuff , the disc brakes mean stopping distances are short , the electronic carburetors and ignition systems simplify my life in practical terms , no fiddling with points or non-electronic carburetors . The tubeless wheels do the same , right ? Now there are some who argue that even the Aerofoil complicates their relationship with the riding experience , they can't see the front wheel , or feel the wind , and that is just fine by me , their experience is theirs to have and enjoy , I certainly put a lot of miles on unfaired motorbikes , and at times sans helmet , still do occasionally ride W/O a bash hat , shocking isn't it ? The experience of doing so takes me back , reminds me of what is so wonderful about these two wheeled devices that is so addictive , just a rider and a motorbike , once again a distillation of life unencumbered by extraneous influences .

 The Sultan
It is in the darkness of their eyes that men get lost .

Offline Guzzistajohn

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2021, 03:39:01 PM »
a certain Triumph triple verify by his GPS that we had truly broken the tonne on a rural highway in SE Oklahoma , on one of those roads you found so uninteresting , of course i was pretty sure we had anyway .  :evil: :evil: :evil: :thumb:

I like my GPS, use one dang near every day for work. I can set my destination, add 1/2 an hour, call the client with an ETA and still be there my typical 5 minutes early.

I have "hideaways" marked all over swMo & nw Ar saved and I travel the backroads from spot to spot using the GPS to go the shortest distance. I've found some really remote backroads I would have never seen. Like I said before, depends on the application.

Tim and I were headed to Deal's Gap, when we got there he asked "how did you get here without looking at a map?" he didn't know I was cheating  :grin:
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2021, 04:02:42 PM »
a certain Triumph triple verify by his GPS that we had truly broken the tonne on a rural highway in SE Oklahoma , on one of those roads you found so uninteresting , of course i was pretty sure we had anyway .  :evil: :evil: :evil: :thumb:

I like my GPS, use one dang near every day for work. I can set my destination, add 1/2 an hour, call the client with an ETA and still be there my typical 5 minutes early.

I have "hideaways" marked all over swMo & nw Ar saved and I travel the backroads from spot to spot using the GPS to go the shortest distance. I've found some really remote backroads I would have never seen. Like I said before, depends on the application.

Tim and I were headed to Deal's Gap, when we got there he asked "how did you get here without looking at a map?" he didn't know I was cheating  :grin:

 That was a wonderful day only marred by Rudy losing his front brake .

 The Sultan
It is in the darkness of their eyes that men get lost .

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2021, 06:21:44 PM »
What else do I have , oh almost a million miles on street bikes W/O any electronic assistance .

 Here is reality , some folks are more interested in Gadgets than they are in just the experience , and there is nothing wrong with that . I thoroughly enjoy having a simple flip phone that allows me to stay in contact with dozens of people and understand that said phone is a direct result of technology , that doesn't indicate a need to have some device that removes all of the wonder of life . Some of us simply prefer a less cluttered existence , don't want or need multiple motorbikes , the latest in technical advances . Call it a distillation of needs , a way to live that isn't reliant on stuff .

 As for my preference in equipment on a motorbike , well , a simple touring device suffices , the Aerofoil keeps the bugs and rain off of me , the panniers carry stuff , the disc brakes mean stopping distances are short , the electronic carburetors and ignition systems simplify my life in practical terms , no fiddling with points or non-electronic carburetors . The tubeless wheels do the same , right ? Now there are some who argue that even the Aerofoil complicates their relationship with the riding experience , they can't see the front wheel , or feel the wind , and that is just fine by me , their experience is theirs to have and enjoy , I certainly put a lot of miles on unfaired motorbikes , and at times sans helmet , still do occasionally ride W/O a bash hat , shocking isn't it ? The experience of doing so takes me back , reminds me of what is so wonderful about these two wheeled devices that is so addictive , just a rider and a motorbike , once again a distillation of life unencumbered by extraneous influences .

 The Sultan

Good post. :thumb:
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Offline Ncdan

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2021, 06:43:05 PM »
I must say that you gentleman are truly being gentleman on this one to the point I actually think it’s safe for me to jump in.
I must agree with the absence of Technology on any of my STUFF because I am to much of a simpleton to work all but the most basic technological stuff.  If it wasn’t for my tech savvy wife I’d still be with SoCv with the flip phone🤔😂👍
Continue gentleman, darn good debate 👍

Dan
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 06:44:51 PM by Ncdan »

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #70 on: August 03, 2021, 06:58:30 PM »
I like my Beeline; I've had good luck with my GPS/Phone/Nav and have replaced my tankbag riding notes and maps.  (I do keep them tucked away).

« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 10:31:53 PM by Ncdan »
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #71 on: August 03, 2021, 08:16:48 PM »
 I'm really kinda hoping to lure TWA out to Cedar Vale next May  :thumb:

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2021, 08:31:35 PM »
I'm really kinda hoping to lure TWA out to Cedar Vale next May  :thumb:

 The Sultan

March - June is my heaviest work travel time.  But, the next time I have to go west for work, I would like to ride southeast OK.  The last time it was a detour from beelining down 54 on my way home, so didn't get to explore much. 
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #73 on: August 03, 2021, 08:38:28 PM »
March - June is my heaviest work travel time.  But, the next time I have to go west for work, I would like to ride southeast OK.  The last time it was a detour from beelining down 54 on my way home, so didn't get to explore much.

 The Okie camp out is Oct 7-10 , right off the end of the Talimena drive . Come on , we'll show you around .

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #74 on: August 03, 2021, 09:08:20 PM »
Imagining/planning/plotting a road trip using PC based mapping software to transfer to my GPS is road trip foreplay. Executing it is the.......



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Offline Tom

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #77 on: August 07, 2021, 07:35:00 PM »
I look at a map.  There are places in the American outback that cell phones, nav systems and credit cards don't work.   :boozing:
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

Offline Kev m

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #78 on: August 07, 2021, 10:19:10 PM »
Woah, I'm suddenly even much more confused than usual...
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2021, 12:35:12 AM »
I am still a notes guy. But..I do use my phone as a GPS speedometer to be certain of my speed.

Why am I still a notes guy you may ask when I'm riding along with my phone on GPS speed. Because I can not clearly see the Google map.

Maybe it's my phone in the light or my sunglasses, I just can not quickly read the screen while watching out for traffic.

I have never used one of the Tom Tom or Garmin type units. Maybe their screens would be easier to see in normal day light conditions. I can clearly see boating use depth finders and mapping displays with the same sunglasses on a boat. With my phone, I have a hard enough time looking at the screen in broad daylight with my other hand shading the screen.

OTOH: I do not mind using Google maps and keeping it open on my phone so it knows where I am. When I need to either refresh my memory or write a note while at a gas stop or the like, I look at it rather than a paper map.

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Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #80 on: August 08, 2021, 03:17:35 AM »
A confirmed Luddite here, but I tried to like it, 2 Garmins that both died in action, then a number of apps on iphone.
Apart from the reliability thing, two things stand out
1/ you cannot see bigger picture ie detailed map of 50 mile range, as you zoom out you lose the back roads I ride on
2/ As others, glare in the sun, makes it really hard to read
Best setting I ever found was list of turns, the next one being at top with distance to, disappearing after you’ve made turn.
After that ,Scenic app, the easiest to make your own routes with, or make in another program and send to scenic for turn by turn

But rarely do I use now, Outside of cities, I don’t need it in Aus, if I ever get back to Europe, I’ll probably mount phone again for routes avoiding towns etc, especially over the mountains, little goat tracks are hard to find without

What I do carry and totally rely on is ipad mini in tank bag, have to stop to read like paper map. I use memory map, have the world offline, works everywhere except in tunnels.
Screen does not lose detail  as you zoom out (Configurable)
Sometimes I have my route on display, sometimes just a straight line to where I think I might get that day.
So I use it as a moving paper map, replaces drawers and draws of real paper maps, no contest.
Of course the big advantage over paper is that it shows where you actually are on the map.
For travellers with time I recommend, especially for those that the journey is the point, the destination almost irrelevant, often I never go where I first thought of, somewhere else magical appears.
For couriers , delivery drivers , holidaymakers in hurry to get somewhere, turn by turn is probably a no brainer, I never tried bluetooth speaker but for distraction/ sun glare etc it makes sense
The last point and have to say, the game changer, the ipad is also my library, always have a few books downloaded and when I get to wifi or connect to my phone I can use the net ; possibly like other old gits, even though my phone is theoretically a keyboard, my fingers and thumbs can’t accurately hit keys, ipad makes it doable.
So Luddite now invariably carries ipad, on aeroplanes, only the ipad, can read books, study maps on a thing that weighs nothing and use no space.

Offline centauro

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #81 on: August 08, 2021, 07:13:58 AM »
The couple of times that I tried navigating with a Tom Tom device, it led me on a "Wild Goose Chase" (Guzzi content, LOL!), and ended somewhere completely away from my planned destination.

Since then, mapping the route on a phone or tablet has been much more accurate and helpful. But I still prefer to trust a good, up to date paper map and my wife doing the navigating part.
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #82 on: August 08, 2021, 07:43:29 AM »
As Dirty Harry famously said “A man got to know his limitations”, My navigation skills are really poor. Also, the older I get the more I find that I really need to focus on the road and not trying to figure out where my next turn is.
I Very seldom lead in a group ride unless I’m very familiar with the area and the route I’m taking.
Lisa always preformed all the navigation when she was my riding partner but no longer rides. Therefore I do use the GPS on my phone, attached to my bars. I use ear phones so I can listen to my riding music and make the turns that Seri tells me to make and I always seem to get to my destination. 

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #83 on: August 08, 2021, 09:19:06 AM »
Just a little more info on the Beeline.  It's a Nav system that works off the smart phone.  Program a route and the Beeline gives arrow pointers and mileage countdowns to critical turns.  Not maps that are hard to see.  It works like route notes with no chance of missing a turn due a missing highway sign (pretty common in my state). 

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-gear-and-products/beeline-navigation-review/

Just make sure you're phone is charged.  I carry a battery pack in my tankbag that works great for my phone, camera and bluetooth speaker.  And the arrow can be confusing on three way intersection on unmarked back roads, so you might make a turn around, but the arrow will tell you right away that you've made a wrong turn.








On my last trip to Arkansas, the route leader was using a map and went by a critical highway intersection.  Three riders went past me when I made the correct turn.  I waited for a while but they kept going.  We finally met at dinner but the were an hour and half late.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 09:36:37 AM by LowRyter »
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #84 on: August 08, 2021, 09:30:29 AM »
 Don't ever attempt using any fancy device to find Woolraoc , trust me on this , we were so far off in the boonies the locals sitting on their porches were pointing and laughing as we went by  :laugh:

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Offline Kev m

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #85 on: August 08, 2021, 10:07:57 AM »
Just a little more info on the Beeline.  It's a Nav system that works off the smart phone.  Program a route and the Beeline gives arrow pointers and mileage countdowns to critical turns.  Not maps that are hard to see.  It works like route notes with no chance of missing a turn due a missing highway sign (pretty common in my state). 

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-gear-and-products/beeline-navigation-review/

Just make sure you're phone is charged.  I carry a battery pack in my tankbag that works great for my phone, camera and bluetooth speaker.  And the arrow can be confusing on three way intersection on unmarked back roads, so you might make a turn around, but the arrow will tell you right away that you've made a wrong turn.








On my last trip to Arkansas, the route leader was using a map and went by a critical highway intersection.  Three riders went past me when I made the correct turn.  I waited for a while but they kept going.  We finally met at dinner but the were an hour and half late.

Woah I completely missed that.

That looks great

I think I'm gonna pick one of those up.

Thanks for posting that.
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #86 on: August 08, 2021, 10:13:09 AM »
Don't ever attempt using any fancy device to find Woolraoc , trust me on this , we were so far off in the boonies the locals sitting on their porches were pointing and laughing as we went by  :laugh:

 TS

My Beeline plotted the route from CV to Woolaroc but it went through the numbered highway (123) rather than the backroads from Pawhuska.
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #87 on: August 08, 2021, 10:17:19 AM »
Woah I completely missed that.

That looks great

I think I'm gonna pick one of those up.

Thanks for posting that.

I purchased it from one of the members here that got it from "go fund me" startup.  He never used it and sold it for cost.  The only glitch I've had is when the phone goes into battery save mode.  I had my phone adjusted for 70% power.  Just to be sure now, I carry one of those $30 battery packs with USB connect.  Very handy on the road. 

I think Triumph and RE use a version of it on some of their bike now.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 10:18:23 AM by LowRyter »
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #88 on: August 08, 2021, 10:34:31 AM »
Don't ever attempt using any fancy device to find Woolraoc , trust me on this , we were so far off in the boonies the locals sitting on their porches were pointing and laughing as we went by  :laugh:

 TS

1 missed route out of 13 years of usage…it was a fun diversion. Who knew the back door had been closed?  We wasted more time on V7 fuel and spark plug diagnosis issues if I recall correctly until my TomTom suggested the V7 be parked downhill…started right up
If I recall correctly! 

 :boozing: :boozing:
Paul R
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2002 V11 Scura

Offline Ncdan

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #89 on: August 08, 2021, 10:38:51 AM »
I purchased it from one of the members here that got it from "go fund me" startup.  He never used it and sold it for cost.  The only glitch I've had is when the phone goes into battery save mode.  I had my phone adjusted for 70% power.  Just to be sure now, I carry one of those $30 battery packs with USB connect.  Very handy on the road. 

I think Triumph and RE use a version of it on some of their bike now.
So this device works in conjunction with an app you put on your phone?
You may have to explain this to me in the upmost simply terms, LR and thanks for sharing this with us👍
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 12:44:54 PM by Ncdan »

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