Author Topic: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?  (Read 1771 times)

Online Gliderjohn

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2021, 06:49:02 AM »
GPS is a great tool when needed. Like the first time we got off a plane at Raleigh/Durham at 11:30 pm. and had to find our motel
in a rental car. That is a very confusing area to drive in.
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Offline 9fingers

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2021, 07:02:37 AM »
I've got a Tom Tom Rider 550 and think it is fantastic. I used it on a trip to the Adirondacks, over to Vermont and down thru Massachusetts and it worked supremely. And it gives you the option of including dirt roads on your route.
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2021, 07:18:49 AM »
I dont have any problem memorizing the route.. my issue is I get busy enjoying the ride or looking at the scenery and I miss my turns. It's like I have mentally blocked out the road signs.  I'm just cruising along and thinking 'dang this seems too far til the next turn' and then I'm not sure if I passed it yet or it is still to come.

I dont have any issues with day-to-day navigation, and if I drive somewhere once I can probably drive back 5 years later without checking the route or GPS.


One thing I do love about GPS (i use google maps on an iphone with a bar-mount phone holder) is this:

Where I live the roads are twistier than a bowl of spaghetti, steep, and HEAVILY forested. You can't see thru the turn, much less what the road looks like 50ft beyond.  When I have GPS cued up, I can steal glances to the screen and see the bright blue line following the next three turns..  *glance down* "ok after this sharp right there is a big sweeping left, short straight, then another decreasing radius right-hander that dumps back out to another tight left"  I don't have to stare at the screen, a quick look at the highlighted line sets me up for the next 2-3 turns.  This makes it MUCH easier to ride briskly in the mountains, esp on unfamiliar roads.

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Online blackcat

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2021, 07:38:59 AM »
I just use the Bluetooth connection in my helmet, Google Maps,etc. and let it talk to me in a point to point destination. Less distracting
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2021, 07:38:59 AM »

Online OldMojo

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2021, 07:41:00 AM »

And now I often use Kurviger. Tell it I want to go from A to B, and it looks at the roads, counts the number of turns, and literally routes you in the least direct route it can find.  :shocked: I have been finding a lot of new roads using the software. Roads I would never think about taking on a paper map, or even just exploring. It does put me on a lot of gravel, but I am OK with that. So far my only real complaint is that if I go for a ride, it tends to put me on the same twisty route on the return trip.

And there is the bonus of it recording where you have been. Go for a long ride and travel on a lot of new forest roads or such and wonder where you were, just pull up the recording.

I was pretty sure I had tried this one and dismissed it for some reason, but after reading this post decided to have another look.

My first concern is to have the ability to load offline maps, since I use an old rugged phone with no cell service for this purpose. It would appear that it does, if you buy the Pro version.

No problem, I'll sacrifice a couple beers to do an in-depth trial with it. So I downloaded the free version, prepared to upgrade immediately. I go straight to the offline maps section, where I read that while it can navigate offline "Route creation requires an internet connection"   Really?? :shocked:

Sigh...  At least I was able to find this out before paying for it.

Just for giggles, I went on to give it my second test, which is a simple search. While connected to wi-fi mind you, it could not find:
-The monthly breakfast location
-The old monthly breakfast location
-The restaurant where I go to play trivia.

The newest of these places might be 10 years old. If it can't find someplace down the street, how can I have any confidence in it far from home?

I'm pretty sure this is because it uses Open Street Maps for its POI data, as do several other motorcycle oriented GPS apps. I understand that it may be possible to supplement POIs via other 3rd party databases. I would explore this but for the aforementioned offline fail.

My point is not necessarily to rag on this app. It's a great concept and I'm glad it's working for others. But it definitely illustrates the frustration on tap for people like myself who have slightly different use cases. The notion that a navigation system designed to get you out in the sticks would need a data connection seems antithetical.
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2021, 07:58:11 AM »
Just for giggles, I went on to give it my second test, which is a simple search. While connected to wi-fi mind you, it could not find:
-The monthly breakfast location
-The old monthly breakfast location
-The restaurant where I go to play trivia.

Yea, that map data they use has worthless POI data. I have never even attempted to look for a POI when looking for a twisty road, so it never really occurred to me that it is an issue.
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2021, 08:02:11 AM »
Here in the western US, where the road IS the road, there’s really no need to rely on GPS to get you where you’re going. I rarely use mine except for whimsical glances to see what my elevation is. But this may change with my admittedly-slow level of technology adoption. When microwave ovens were first available for home use in the 60’s, I’d often wonder why anyone would need one…
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Offline JC85

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2021, 09:09:20 AM »
As others have said, I see it as a useful tool to have handy. When taking a trip, I'll usually plan the route ahead of time on google maps on my PC. Doing it that way, I can choose which roads to take, which stops to make, etc, then have it sent to my phone. I generally memorize most of the route and carry a map in the top of my tank bag, but it is nice to have the gps in my ear to remind me of turns or alert me to huge roadwork and the most efficient detours, etc.
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Offline Canuck750

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2021, 10:51:44 AM »
I don’t use a gps often but when I toured across Europe a couple years ago it was essential, especially in the former eastern block countries where my ignorance of places and directions would have made navigation of the back roads very difficult.
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Offline guzziart

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2021, 12:00:03 PM »
I dislike the factory nav on my '08 Wing.  The system locks you out once the bike is underway...pita sometimes to stop just in order to get it back to the home/route screen.  Plus, Honda/Garmin stopped updates & support in '14.  Recently I installed a zumo 396 on the wing and I'm satisfied with it.  I also have a 660 on my Wee Strom since 2012 and I'm happy with that too.

On another note, I hate Garmin Basecamp...too damn difficult for my simple mind as compared to Google My Maps, imho.

Online twtex85

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2021, 01:37:30 PM »
I like having the GPS especially on long rides in unfamiliar territory.  It does also help in group riding scenario's if everyone has the route loaded in their GPS just in case they get separated or lose contact with the person in front of them.  However sometimes  there can be an overreliance on them as they do not necessarily tell you the road condition.  Sometimes they will lead you down cow paths or dirt roads if that is the shortest route. It all depends on how you have them setup when you build the route.   One of the issues I have with them is people get dependent on them and if you ask them to go on a ride the first thing they ask is if you have a route. :thewife:  Whatever happened to the spontaneity of going out for a ride with only a destination and no planned routes on how to get there.
   
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 01:38:16 PM by twtex85 »

Offline berniebee

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2021, 03:44:17 PM »
In a past life I worked on the road and constantly had to find customers, airports, Fedex locations, restaurants and hotels, etc with a map. I  was pretty good at it.  But no matter how many tricks you learn, (Like even numbered addresses are commonly on the north side and west side of streets and even numbered highways are typically east west.) maps go out of date and occasionally, are just plain wrong. 

 GPS has a couple of of other distinct advantages:

- At night, it's a lot harder to read a street sign in time to make a turn and fuhgettabout looking for an address number from a moving car in the dark. GPS has made navigating after sunset far less stressful. (Though in my neck of the woods, GPS still can't reliably get you to the front door of a house in suburbia, only within three or four houses.)
-If there's a delay or road closure, Google maps will tell you or even reroute you - truly an amazing feature.

On a road trip, I still like to "know" where I am. But on the other hand sometimes in a big city highway interchange or a large airport you are just following signs through a maze without a clue where the heck you are. Again, advantage GPS should your vehicle break down.


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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2021, 05:13:13 PM »
The reason why you don't use that function is obvious .... :laugh:

 The Sultan

Apparently not to me.  :embarrassed:


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Offline Iron Cross Junction

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2021, 07:27:20 PM »
I've got a Tom Tom Rider 550 and think it is fantastic. I used it on a trip to the Adirondacks, over to Vermont and down thru Massachusetts and it worked supremely. And it gives you the option of including dirt roads on your route.


Yes, I have one.  And, unless on Stornello, set the 550 to "avoid" highways and unpaved roads.  The TomTom software-mapping folks must come from Lapland and think that gravel is pavement. 

For example, last week, on the way back from Erie on my Griso, I found myself on 11+ miles of this:





In fairness, when I saw “Frozen Toe Road” was coming up, I suppose I should have had an inkling.  It was a sphincter-fusing ride, with numerous softball-sized river rocks.  I didn’t drop it, but that was way more about the Griso's long wheelbase and luck than my skills. 

I felt better when a local posted in a Pennsylvania “tag” thread on ADVRiver that "I'm glad you made it over Frozen Toe without mishap! We're only a couple of miles south of Leeper and that road is kind of our go-to for testing new knobbies on the dual sports."

My Garmin Zumo 550 wasn’t better, and possibly worse.  Those same settings got me here while leading a group from Atlanta to a Virginia rally:







"No, Sir.  It doesn't look like a road.  Yes, Sir, I was stupid.”

The guy’s wife never put down the shotgun.

Yes, again, one has to be smarter than the GPS.  I wasn’t.

Bill


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Online Solorider73

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2021, 08:09:44 PM »
A GPS is a tool that I use on most rides. It helps me find roads that I wouldn’t normally find when I’m out exploring.  With that said everyone should be the master of their technology.

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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2021, 08:53:27 PM »
Meh , some of us like being surprised , all of this technology removes the mystery , what is over that hill or around that bend . Never had any trouble finding a place to eat , or a place to sleep . Hell , if we had GPS in 1968 I wouldn't have picked Cedar Vale as a destination .

 The Sultan

I disagree.  You still don't know what is over that hill, or around that bend.  You just know that if you go over that hill and around that bend you will eventually get to the destination you want to reach. 

Of course in Oklahoma you have very few curvy roads so I could see not needing GPS there.   Yesterday coming home for the Smoky Mountains to my home west of there I actually rode into the sunrise.  Some of those mountain roads have 360 degree turns to get you around the mountain topography. 

As the crow flies it is 200 miles between my house and Maggie Valley.  On the roads it is 315 miles.    Tishomingo, OK to Cedar Vale, KS is also 200 miles as the crow flies.  On the roads it is 229 miles. 

How I use the GPS to make my ride interesting is to put in my destination and still turn down whatever road I desire and let it recalculate so I still know how many miles or hours to my destination, or I make a custom route beforehand if I have time so I can visit historic places or other places of interest between where I am and my destination, or sometimes I look at the route it created, and through a via on the map in the middle of nowhere and see where I end up.  This has led me to take ferries across rivers and bridges that are 12 inches below the water (concrete fords)

For some people the technology is the mystery and many people do not like what they do not understand. 

I know I didn't like the idea of adaptive cruise control until I researched it further and finally bought a car with it.  Now I wonder why it took so long to come to the automotive world. 

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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2021, 10:13:03 PM »
^^^You haven't ever been in my part of Oklahoma , or ridden the Talimena drive , which is a better motorbike toad than the dragon everyday of the week .

 The Sultan

I have ridden in southeast Oklahoma, and through the rest of Oklahoma.  I can also use Google Maps with terrain features turned on.  The dragon is a tourist road.  Too many other roads to ride in the Tennessee / North Carolina mountains, but the Dragon is one of the roads that must be ridden to get from east to west without traveling many miles north or south.  You could spend weeks in the mountains finding new exciting roads to explore. 

Talimena is one road, then go enjoy Arkansas. 
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2021, 10:59:24 PM »
I agree. I can't remember the street names, but I can tell you turn left at the second street ect..

I Google map for places that I have not been. Then I write the streets/highway down and which way to turn. The little piece of paper goes in my top pocket. When I get to the last turn I can remember, pull the paper and then go on.

Tom

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2021, 11:00:33 PM »
My little Enfield came with an extra gauge, called Tripper. When engaged, it becomes a turn by turn navigation system using only an arrow on the screen. Works with Google maps. I don't use it. When not engaged, it's a clock. THAT I can use. 



better than a Beeline
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2021, 11:04:35 PM »
^^^You haven't ever been in my part of Oklahoma , or ridden the Talimena drive , which is a better motorbike toad than the dragon everyday of the week .

 The Sultan

....or around Tishomingo.    :wink:
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2021, 11:07:56 PM »
I have ridden in southeast Oklahoma, and through the rest of Oklahoma.  I can also use Google Maps with terrain features turned on.  The dragon is a tourist road.  Too many other roads to ride in the Tennessee / North Carolina mountains, but the Dragon is one of the roads that must be ridden to get from east to west without traveling many miles north or south.  You could spend weeks in the mountains finding new exciting roads to explore. 

Talimena is one road, then go enjoy Arkansas.

I don't agree with Dusty, even about his, but you go out of your way to offend folks.  I don't know why you want to make a personal preference into a personal disagreement.   You do it often and persistently. 
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2021, 05:31:38 AM »
I don't agree with Dusty, even about his, but you go out of your way to offend folks.  I don't know why you want to make a personal preference into a personal disagreement.   You do it often and persistently.

Being offended is a personal chose I'm told.  I didn't know that pointing out why some people knock down technology to hide their fear of it would be offensive.  Should I be offended because I use said technology that is being bashed?  So much negatively that many thrive on.
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Offline Iron Cross Junction

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #52 on: August 03, 2021, 06:06:41 AM »

^^^^^^^

I can be as easily offended as the next snowflake  :grin:, but I have not noticed any particular "disagreeableness" on the part of TWA.   :boxing:

OTOH, his praise for adaptive cruise control is absolutely nuts; ACC is, IMO, the devil's work.   :evil:

So, maybe we can drift this thread over to discussing the excessive technology in new cars. 

We recently bought a new Honda Fit. One of the reasons -- aside from its 2009 stablemate having 256K miles on its odo -- was that one can turn off almost every one of the "assists."  We have a friend with one of the new big Subs.  He's stuck with everything.  Now, before I have to plead guilty to first-degree ludditeness, be aware that I leave most of those functions on, but ACC is maddening. 

If no one bites on this, I'll just sulk.  Kathi says it's one of my talents.  :azn:

Bill
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2021, 08:51:04 AM »
Being offended is a personal chose I'm told.  I didn't know that pointing out why some people knock down technology to hide their fear of it would be offensive.  Should I be offended because I use said technology that is being bashed?  So much negatively that many thrive on.

I'm not playing.  Go bait another hook.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2021, 08:54:42 AM »
^^^^^^^

I can be as easily offended as the next snowflake  :grin:, but I have not noticed any particular "disagreeableness" on the part of TWA.   :boxing:

OTOH, his praise for adaptive cruise control is absolutely nuts; ACC is, IMO, the devil's work.   :evil:

So, maybe we can drift this thread over to discussing the excessive technology in new cars. 

We recently bought a new Honda Fit. One of the reasons -- aside from its 2009 stablemate having 256K miles on its odo -- was that one can turn off almost every one of the "assists."  We have a friend with one of the new big Subs.  He's stuck with everything.  Now, before I have to plead guilty to first-degree ludditeness, be aware that I leave most of those functions on, but ACC is maddening. 

If no one bites on this, I'll just sulk.  Kathi says it's one of my talents.  :azn:

Bill

I haven’t shown my wife where the one button to turn off all the driver aides is located on the new Mazda. I drove the car this morning and turned on the cruise a 10 above the speed limit on a two lane road. The guy in front of me varied his speed and the Mazda adjusted without me having to do anything but steer.  It even brought the car to a full stop and held the brake until the guy started moving again and went back up to speed. Definitely reduces driver fatigue.

The blind spot monitoring and lane assist as well a pedestrian alert should keep us safer as we age and have more difficulty with blind spot head checks.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2021, 08:55:48 AM »
I'm not playing.  Go bait another hook.

Good choice.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2021, 12:58:11 PM »
Interesting analysis , except it is incorrect . First , who is bashing the technology ? Second , not needing something doesn't indicate a fear of it , only that some of us prefer a more pure experience , call it a lack of need . Some of us rarely if ever visit a large city where this high zoot tech might actually be useful , out in open country a compass is about all most of us really need , right ? Maybe simple is better , or maybe I always know the compass points . We're riding motorbikes , not attempting to locate the moon from the seat , although I have read that after the first visit the pilots flying the Apollo vehicles had a pretty good idea where it is and how to find it .

 See , anything that distracts from the pure experience is just that , a distraction , although it was kinda cool to have a certain Triumph triple verify by his GPS that we had truly broken the tonne on a rural highway in SE Oklahoma , on one of those roads you found so uninteresting , of course i was pretty sure we had anyway .

 Have a nice day

 The Sultan

Something is only a distraction if you let it distract you.  Speedometers can be a distraction alleviated by having electronic cruise control.  No need to continuously check your speed. 

So, I am guessing you only ride naked bikes with very little instrumentation and ride without a helmet so you can truly experience riding without distractions. 

Having to constantly check for street signs, or looking at the compass, or the position of the sun and the time can be a distraction alleviated by having a GPS device. 

What else do you have oh Sultan.   
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Offline Kev m

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2021, 01:35:35 PM »
Wow, uh, ok, maybe I should just leave without posting (but where would the fun be in that).

* I don't get the luddite hate of the tech thing even though I DO get the fun of figuring it out without the tech and getting lost and being surprised.

* I don't believe some of you who say you memorize the route. I mean, I DO believe you if you only go 50 miles on roads you already know. I don't believe you if you were doing what I was doing last week - 200-250 miles of backroads, three or four handwritten route cards of turns with street names or route numbers and directions and sometimes mileage between points.

* I don't have a permanent mount/install for a GPS on any of my bikes, but my concession was that I did get a handlebar bag with a phone display pocket on top. In the year or so I've been using it now I'm starting to move away from my route cards. Damn it can be handy. And for those who say they like to be surprised, you can just select the right preferences on the route or better yet, ignore it for a little while and take other turns, then you'll be surprised when it routes you back toward the desired destination. Easy-Peasy.

I will say that The Google tried to screw me two separate days last week. I used it to help create a route and then wrote out route cards using the "steps" feature (which summarizes turns/road names/distances). Then two separate days Jenn and I found ourselves saying "wait, that road never showed up" and we wound up pulling over to check the route.

One time was genuinely hilarious as The Goodle had literally left 40-50 MILES of directions off the route telling us to follow Bla bla bla road 3.9 miles and then turn onto Bla Bla Bla road. After it didn't show in 4-5 miles we pulled over and checked the map view. The road just wasn't there. So we skipped ahead in the route cards, looked at the roads on it further down the line, and plotted a way to rejoin the route cards. About 50 miles later VIOLA we FOUND the missing road (by accident as we were heading for the next set of roads on the original route). The Google had literally just left out how to get from A to B. Oh well, see we used the tech, we were surprised, we plotted our way out - all good.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 08:29:38 PM by Kev m »
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Online Guzzistajohn

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2021, 03:39:01 PM »
a certain Triumph triple verify by his GPS that we had truly broken the tonne on a rural highway in SE Oklahoma , on one of those roads you found so uninteresting , of course i was pretty sure we had anyway .  :evil: :evil: :evil: :thumb:

I like my GPS, use one dang near every day for work. I can set my destination, add 1/2 an hour, call the client with an ETA and still be there my typical 5 minutes early.

I have "hideaways" marked all over swMo & nw Ar saved and I travel the backroads from spot to spot using the GPS to go the shortest distance. I've found some really remote backroads I would have never seen. Like I said before, depends on the application.

Tim and I were headed to Deal's Gap, when we got there he asked "how did you get here without looking at a map?" he didn't know I was cheating  :grin:
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2021, 06:21:44 PM »
What else do I have , oh almost a million miles on street bikes W/O any electronic assistance .

 Here is reality , some folks are more interested in Gadgets than they are in just the experience , and there is nothing wrong with that . I thoroughly enjoy having a simple flip phone that allows me to stay in contact with dozens of people and understand that said phone is a direct result of technology , that doesn't indicate a need to have some device that removes all of the wonder of life . Some of us simply prefer a less cluttered existence , don't want or need multiple motorbikes , the latest in technical advances . Call it a distillation of needs , a way to live that isn't reliant on stuff .

 As for my preference in equipment on a motorbike , well , a simple touring device suffices , the Aerofoil keeps the bugs and rain off of me , the panniers carry stuff , the disc brakes mean stopping distances are short , the electronic carburetors and ignition systems simplify my life in practical terms , no fiddling with points or non-electronic carburetors . The tubeless wheels do the same , right ? Now there are some who argue that even the Aerofoil complicates their relationship with the riding experience , they can't see the front wheel , or feel the wind , and that is just fine by me , their experience is theirs to have and enjoy , I certainly put a lot of miles on unfaired motorbikes , and at times sans helmet , still do occasionally ride W/O a bash hat , shocking isn't it ? The experience of doing so takes me back , reminds me of what is so wonderful about these two wheeled devices that is so addictive , just a rider and a motorbike , once again a distillation of life unencumbered by extraneous influences .

 The Sultan

Good post. :thumb:
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