Author Topic: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?  (Read 14308 times)

Offline pyoungbl

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« on: October 02, 2014, 06:25:40 PM »
2012 Stelvio NTX (I suspect all the NTXs are the same).  Under the right front cover (the one below the gas tank..held in place by two allen head cap screws and one stud that takes a M8 wrench) you will find five relays.  From front to back it's a 4-pin, a 5-pin (Bosch), a 4-pin, and two more 5-pins.  I can't find anything in the service manual that tells me what these various relays do.  Point being, I'd like to carry a spare 4-pin and 5-pin relay but it would help immensely if I knew what each relay is doing.  Has anyone else figured this out already or am I stuck trying to decipher the wiring diagram?

This is driven by a recent tale of woe where the culprit was a bad relay.  End result was a dead battery.

Peter Y.
Growing old ain't for sissies.

'13 V7 Special (red/white)

Offline boxermoose

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 150
  • TANSTAAFL
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 07:28:47 PM »
Well...I can talk about thepair of 5 pin relays :(

The one closest to the tank is for low beams and charging & the one closest to the front is for the high beams. They are the same part#

If you have the workshop maual that is widley avaiable for download does show function - page 56 is the wiring schmetic

Offline pyoungbl

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2014, 07:47:54 PM »
Boxer, thanks for the input.  Note that there are three 5 pin relays (not two).  All the 5 pin relays are standard Bosch type relays.  The 4 pin relays (two of them) appear to be identical sealed units.   To recap, there are five relays in total.

I do have the wiring diagram and the service manual but the latter does not shed any light on which relay does what.  The parts catalog (pages 59~62) lists all the electrical parts, to include the relays, but nothing tells me which one on my bike does what.  Of course I could trace down the wire colors and match them to the wiring diagram in order to get an answer but I was hoping to benefit from the sweat and tears already expended by others.

Peter Y.
Growing old ain't for sissies.

'13 V7 Special (red/white)

Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 9796
  • Location: New Westminster BC
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2014, 11:22:30 PM »
Carl's drawing may shed some light although its for a 2008

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2008_Stelvio.gif
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2014, 11:22:30 PM »

Offline pyoungbl

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2014, 06:17:11 AM »
Carl's drawing may shed some light although its for a 2008

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2008_Stelvio.gif

That's one of the references I have been using in this quest.  It appears that I'll be tracking down the various wire combinations to get to the bottom of this.  More to follow.
Growing old ain't for sissies.

'13 V7 Special (red/white)

Online Howard R

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1581
  • Location: Littlestown, PA USA
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2014, 02:45:58 PM »
Two things off the top of my head.  A lot of times, the only difference in a 4-pin and a 5-pin is the missing pin, that is, the pinout is the same, just the one pin is not there. (In the electronics world, nomenclature is single throw versus double throw with both being the same physically except that the double throw has the 5th pin for an additional contact in the "energized" condition.) Not having seen the relays in question myself, it's possible that you could save yourself some part-tracking-down time & cost with a closer inspection of your situation.  If they are the same as I described except for the number of pins, the 5-pin one will work just fine in the 4-pin slot as long as there is a "hole" (most likely no actual pin receptacle in the missing position) for the extra (unused) pin to physically fit down into.  If this is the case, just carry a 5-pin spare and it will still work in a 4-pin location.

And, a quick & dirty way to identify the functions would be to pull one relay at a time and take notes of what doesn't work.  Could save you some time digging through wiring diagrams, and once you can identify one function the schematic should tell you which other functions are associated with "relay-#-whatever."

Hope this helps.

Howard
Littlestown, PA  USA

1996 Sport 1100
1998 Centauro

MGNOC # L-707

Offline pauldaytona

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2562
    • Paul's fast Guzzi Page
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2014, 03:23:39 PM »
take sharp picture(s) at the wireside, that would make it easy to find out what is what.

Schematics list 7 relays in the bike, 3 types, the 4 pin come with and without diode. The 5 pin has an alternating contact. In the drawing, r1-r4 is in the relays so  they are in line?

The two injection relays are next to the ecu, left front.
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline kirb

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2014, 10:38:35 PM »
The relay on the right side all the way to the front is the fog lamp relay....I am working my way backward.

Offline ChuckH

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1520
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2014, 05:53:09 AM »
My wiring diagram identifies the five relays on the right side of the bike as follows:
   #3 -- Start Up Relay
   #4 -- Start Up Maintenance Relay
   #5 -- Light Logic Relay
   #6 -- Fog Lights Relay
   #65 -- High Beam Light Relay

The schematic shows them side-by-side with #3 most forward, #65 most rearward.  I don't know why Kirb's bike has the Fog Light Relay in the most forward position, mine may be the same.

Edit:  And now that I look more closely at the schematic, only one of the relays (#5 Light Logic Relay) has five wires connected to it, all of the other relays only have four wires connected.

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 06:03:06 AM by ChuckH »
Essential to the pursuit of happiness is knowing when you've caught it.
Life's what happens while you're making other plans.
I always knew I'd get old.  How fast it happened was a bit of a surprise, though.

'08 Chevy Corvette (non-Stealth, Bright Red)

Offline pyoungbl

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2014, 01:42:31 PM »
I have been out of town for a few days but this issue has been on my mind.  Thanks for all the suggestions, I know everyone is being helpful but I need to clarify what I'm dealing with.  Here's a photo of the line of relays:


From front to rear of the bike:  4 pin, 5 pin, 4 pin, 5 pin, 5 pin.  When I talk about the # of pins I'm actually looking at the pins on the relay.  Here's a 4 pin one:

Note the black 'nose' that locks the relay into the harness connection.

This is what the 5 pin relays look like...basically the classic Bosch type:


By tracing the color of the wires vs the wiring diagram I "THINK" that the relay closest to the front of the bike is #6 on the wiring diagram, the fog light relay.  the next one back appears to be #65, high beam.  The next relay...????, the fourth relay might be #4, Start Maintenance Relay.  The last relay is...?????.

Man, how I wish the factory had seen fit to show a photo of these relays and the function of each!  I'll try to flesh this out in the next few days.

Peter Y.
Growing old ain't for sissies.

'13 V7 Special (red/white)

Offline pauldaytona

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2562
    • Paul's fast Guzzi Page
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2014, 03:07:49 PM »
last looks light logic as far as I can see colors

that makes front to back
#6 -- Fog Lights Relay
#65 -- High Beam Light Relay
#3 -- Start Up Relay
#4 -- Start Up Maintenance Relay
#5 -- Light Logic Relay
   
   
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline pyoungbl

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2014, 03:28:29 PM »
Eureka!  I think PaulDaytona has made some sense out of this.  Thanks!!

Peter Y.
Growing old ain't for sissies.

'13 V7 Special (red/white)

Offline ChuckH

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1520
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2014, 05:32:50 AM »
OK Peter,

The four-pin and five-pin relays are clearly not interchangeable so we have to carry one of each to be able to make a road side repair.  Do you have a Bosch (or some other) P/N for each that can be used as a cross-reference to a NAPA P/N?  That would make it easier/less expensive to obtain these spares.

Thanks.
Essential to the pursuit of happiness is knowing when you've caught it.
Life's what happens while you're making other plans.
I always knew I'd get old.  How fast it happened was a bit of a surprise, though.

'08 Chevy Corvette (non-Stealth, Bright Red)

Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 9796
  • Location: New Westminster BC
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2014, 02:36:50 PM »
I have been out of town for a few days but this issue has been on my mind.  Thanks for all the suggestions, I know everyone is being helpful but I need to clarify what I'm dealing with.  Here's a photo of the line of relays:
 
What a fugly setup, whatever happened to the nice arrangement we had on the old spine framed bikes or even an EV was better than that.
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline pyoungbl

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2014, 03:19:17 PM »
OK Peter,

The four-pin and five-pin relays are clearly not interchangeable so we have to carry one of each to be able to make a road side repair.  Do you have a Bosch (or some other) P/N for each that can be used as a cross-reference to a NAPA P/N?  That would make it easier/less expensive to obtain these spares.

Thanks.

Chuck, I think you can use any run of the mill Bosch type relay for the 5 pin ones but those 4 pin relays appear to be some kind of ISO standard that I have yet to locate other than OEM.  BTW, the part number for the 4 pin is AP8224462 and it lists for $28.80 (Ouch!).  I'm still looking for something less dear.

Peter Y.

Roy, I am in complete agreement with you!
Growing old ain't for sissies.

'13 V7 Special (red/white)

Offline Kiwi_Roy

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 9796
  • Location: New Westminster BC
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2014, 06:49:39 PM »
The only relay a bit special is item (30), it has a safety diode.
This is to stop the ECU from frying if you accidentally connect the battery backwards.
The other Guzzis have this diode external to the relay, sometimes inside the ECU

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2008_Stelvio.gif

I think this model just has one special, note the different terminal numbers.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 06:54:51 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
72 Eldorado
17 V7iii Special
76 Convert
Half a V9 Roamer

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline num1husker

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2015, 09:53:48 PM »
So I lost my low beams and did some looking at other threads and it appears the first thing to look at is the relay.  With the help of "pyoungbl" I used the photo to link the relay's so if I did it correctly the I need to start testing light logic relay #5?

Offline boxermoose

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 150
  • TANSTAAFL
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2015, 09:06:03 AM »
If you lost your low beams you probably blew the fuze cleverly hidden behind the RH side cover low beside the battery - this usually goes when the fog light wires short on the housing

Offline pyoungbl

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1980
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2015, 09:19:54 AM »
I agree with Boxermoose, the most common problem on the NTX is the damn aux lights shorting out and blowing the 'dreaded' 30A fuze seen here:


These fuzes are found behind the triangular plastic panel on the right side of the bike, just below the seat.  NOT the fuzes you see when you take the seat off.  This is a big deal because when the 30A fuze trips you also lose power to the alternator so now the bike is running off battery power alone.  You will find yourself stuck on the side of the road with a dead battery, wondering what the hell happened.  You won't be the first to have this happen.

Peter Y.
Growing old ain't for sissies.

'13 V7 Special (red/white)

Offline leafman60

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 6795
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2015, 10:03:16 AM »
Yep

Be glad you weren't stranded someplace!

Much info posted about this design flaw.

Offline danketchpel

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Location: Ventura County, CA
Re: Stelvio NTX relays, which does what?
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2023, 09:54:22 PM »
So I lost my low beams and did some looking at other threads and it appears the first thing to look at is the relay.  With the help of "pyoungbl" I used the photo to link the relay's so if I did it correctly the I need to start testing light logic relay #5?

You may have solved this, but I've found the problem with the low beams going out is the handlebar switch. It's extremely hard to properly clean, I've tried a few approaches with various electronics sprays etc. What seems to work is simply switching it back and forth from low to high beams frequently which more or less mechanically cleans the contact in the switch.

 

Quad Lock - The best GPS / phone mount system for your motorcycles, no damage to your cameras!!
Get a Wildguzzi discount of 10% off your order!
http://quadlock.refr.cc/luapmckeever
Advertise Here