Author Topic: Brembo Brake Check  (Read 10024 times)

canuck750

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Brembo Brake Check
« on: November 10, 2014, 09:54:00 PM »
I pulled the front calipers off the 850T I bought this spring to check them out for the 750S tribute I am going to build. The previous owner was riding this bike on a semi-regular basis before I bought it so I was just planning on new pads and perhaps seals and hoses.

Getting the pistons out took an hour + in the ultrasonic cleaner and lots of air pressure, tapping with a rubber hammer and sprays of brake cleaner. The pistons were seized in the castings.

The pistons are toast, deeply pitted with rust, the castings cleaned up pretty good with a bead blast and an hour back in the ultrasonic cleaner.





Master cylinder leaking out the ram face



The pins are all rusted and the piston seals are done, the brake hoses are soft and stretched.



I should have just bought new calipers off MG Classics but I want the dual bleeder bodies for this bike.

Can't believe the old T was able to stop at all!

If you have a 40 year old Guzzi I suggest you take a good look at the calipers, hopefully they are not as far gone as this pair.

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2014, 10:03:29 PM »
Typical of any calipers still with the original chrome plated pistons. Heating the caliper body will usually help pop them out.
Charlie

canuck750

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2014, 10:11:49 PM »
Good advice Charlie, hadn't thought of good old heat.

Any tips for rebuilding these old calipers?

I am considering powder coating the castings or trying that fancy brake caliper paint that the car shops sell, I want to use a paint that will resist brake fluid. Have you tried any of that special caliper paint?

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2014, 10:20:39 PM »
DuPont Imron, and possibly many other 2-part polyurethane paints, resist brake fluid very well.  In fact Imron resists any solvent I've gotten on it, including lacquer thinner and acetone, as well as gasoline and the glycol based brake fluids.  Just don't breathe the stuff while you're spraying it.  DuPont Corlar epoxy primer is the stuff to use as a base coat.

Today's powder coats may be just as good for a brake caliper, but I haven't used them yet.
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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2014, 10:20:39 PM »

Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 06:45:16 AM »
Good advice Charlie, hadn't thought of good old heat.

Any tips for rebuilding these old calipers?


Yep, buy new calipers from MG Cycles. Last year when going through my 850T I had the same problem. Started adding up the prices for all the rebuild part (seals, pistons, pins, pads, bleed nipples) and found that for about $20 to $30 more I could just buy a new caliper that already had updated anodized pistons, new pads and pins and a warranty. If I were to try and rebuild there was no guarantee the end product would work. Its a pretty easy choice. Then you can always sell you old one on eBay for $10 or $15 each and the deal is even better.
It's the ones who've cracked that the light shines through!

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 08:26:07 AM »
Yep, buy new calipers from MG Cycles.

But, Jim says he wants to stick with the dual-bleeder calipers.
Charlie

Offline Mike Tashjian

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 09:55:46 AM »
One tip for the rebuild of a caliper is to be sure the square cut groove for the seal is cleaned up well and not heavily pitted.  Even though the seal will deform some to seal, it is better it make sure you have that area squared away before paint.  Mike

Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2014, 11:48:13 AM »
But, Jim says he wants to stick with the dual-bleeder calipers.

Doh! I didn't read the last bits of the post.

What's the advantage of dual bleeders?
It's the ones who've cracked that the light shines through!

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2014, 11:58:42 AM »
Doh! I didn't read the last bits of the post.

What's the advantage of dual bleeders?

No real advantage function-wise IMO. 
Charlie

Offline Hahnda

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2014, 12:29:26 PM »
I am partial to using the grease gun method on stubborn pistons. A bit of a mess to clean up but not to bad. I have had good luck with powder coat on calipers.

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Offline Stevex

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2014, 01:22:28 PM »
Stripped my calipers during a recent overhaul; the front pair of pistons were anodised but the rear two bleeder had the chromed ones.
After 34 years I amazed they looked so good, and I've reused them.
I got my calipers and front disc carriers coated with brake fluid resistant coating, although I was told the gold colour was the least resistant of these coatings. During the final bleed I didn't notice the bit of fluid that dripped down one caliper and it must have soaked in for days before my attempt to clean it off. Luckily it's not noticeable, so I'll live with it.







Steve
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canuck750

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 09:46:52 PM »
I bought a pair of new Brembo calipers for my Eldorado but wanted to try and preserve the original ones for my 750S3 and 750S clone. The original bikes used dual bleeder Brembo calipers to keep the S3 original and if they worked out then do the same on the 750S bike.



The other thing I noticed on the S3 that is different from the 850T is the S3 has steel lines from the front calipers then rubber hoses, the 850T has rubber hoses direct to the caliper.



This is a picture of the 850T front caliper and hoses



Anyone know what other Guzzi would use the same rubber hoses as the 750 S3?

Offline guzzista

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2014, 10:01:36 PM »
Lemans 1 perhaps? T3 has taller bars, so the front brake hose length  is different . Also the presence of a spitter for the brake light switch is another factor to consider
1975 750S Tribute bike, 1994 Cali 1100, 2007 Ducati GT1000, 1983 SP1000 1967 Vespa 180 SS, 1976 Vespa Rally 200

canuck750

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 10:21:49 PM »
This is a picture of the 750S3 hose routing



and the splitter and brake light switch



I may just bundle up the hoses and send them to Curtis Harper to see if he can match them.


The 850T routes a hose from the master cylinder



and down to the splitter on the lower triple and both front hoses connect to the other side of the splitter, I am assuming this is how the dual disc V7 Sport and 750S routed the brake lines?


Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 11:08:41 PM »
Seems they would all be the same as a T3 except for the one from the front master cylinder to the splitter. 
Charlie

Offline guzzista

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2014, 10:35:31 AM »
If you want to upgrade to stainless, Teo Lamers has S3 kits with black outer coating. Saw some on their site a while back when purchasing the 750S kit from them
1975 750S Tribute bike, 1994 Cali 1100, 2007 Ducati GT1000, 1983 SP1000 1967 Vespa 180 SS, 1976 Vespa Rally 200

Cheese

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2014, 10:51:59 AM »
Does the S3 have linked brakes? I'd think not, and this might preclude using hoses from T3 and later..

Peter

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2014, 11:51:29 AM »
Does the S3 have linked brakes? I'd think not, and this might preclude using hoses from T3 and later..

Peter

Pretty sure it does. S3 is just basically a T3 with sporty bodywork IIRC.
Charlie

Cheese

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2014, 12:05:22 PM »
My '82 Ducati 900SS appears to have the same rubber to steel line set-up as pictured on the S3. Are there steel hose mounts which are bolted through the fender mounting holes in the forks? Perhaps Bevelheads might have them.

Peter

https://store.bevelheaven.com/front-brake-line-kits/


 

« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 12:07:35 PM by Cheese »

Offline Markcarovilli

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2014, 12:33:46 PM »
I bought a pair of new Brembo calipers for my Eldorado but wanted to try and preserve the original ones for my 750S3 and 750S clone. The original bikes used dual bleeder Brembo calipers to keep the S3 original and if they worked out then do the same on the 750S bike.



The other thing I noticed on the S3 that is different from the 850T is the S3 has steel lines from the front calipers then rubber hoses, the 850T has rubber hoses direct to the caliper.



This is a picture of the 850T front caliper and hoses



Anyone know what other Guzzi would use the same rubber hoses as the 750 S3?


I think that the 75 Eldorado would use the same rubber hoses with single disk....

Mark

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2014, 12:46:16 PM »
Speigler (and others like Earl's) can make to order just about hose that you want. So unless you gotta' have original style rubber hoses, sourcing them isn't really a problem.
Charlie

canuck750

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2014, 04:05:12 PM »
Speigler (and others like Earl's) can make to order just about hose that you want. So unless you gotta' have original style rubber hoses, sourcing them isn't really a problem.

I want to get the stock hoses for the 750S3, 'preservation' of original equipment is what I am aiming for. I want to keep the original paint and only change out what is worn out, dangerous or too ugly to bear (re-chrome the shiny bits, replace the rubber parts, polish the aluminum rims and stainless fenders, new cables, hoses, clamps etc...)

Cheers

Jim

Offline 750S3

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2014, 08:21:01 PM »
Jim, I replaced the left hand front brake pipe line which I bought a from Larry Klein of gt motors in Lansing.
That was about a couple of years ago.

Luca
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Offline 750S3

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2014, 08:26:24 PM »
Jim, I replaced the left hand front brake pipe line which I bought a from Larry Klein of gt motors in Lansing.
That was about a couple of years ago.

Luca
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crc

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2014, 08:43:39 PM »
I always use grease to remove stuck pistons now. I saw a piston fly across the workshop using compressed air a few years ago, could do all sorts of damage to man or machine :-\

Offline Hahnda

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2014, 10:01:40 PM »
I always use grease to remove stuck pistons now. I saw a piston fly across the workshop using compressed air a few years ago, could do all sorts of damage to man or machine :-\

 :+1

When I tell people about this method they ask me why isn't more widely known. Dunno. No flying pistons. Its so easy and works great. No the threads don't match up on the the grease gun and the caliper but they are REALLY close. I have never screwed up threads using this method.
2003 V11 Lemans - 2000 Quota w/ Sidecar
1996 California - 1976 Convert
1975 850T -750S Project - 1975 Eldorado Police
1973 Eldorado - 3x 1971 Ambassador
1970 Ambassador - 1963 Stornello Sport
1949 GTV - 1948 Airone

www.scramblercycle. com

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2014, 10:15:11 PM »
A shop rag wrapped around the caliper half will catch the piston. Never had one fly anywhere...
Charlie

Offline Hahnda

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2014, 10:25:48 PM »
A shop rag wrapped around the caliper half will catch the piston. Never had one fly anywhere...

Very true. I try air first but if its truly stuck out comes the grease gun.
2003 V11 Lemans - 2000 Quota w/ Sidecar
1996 California - 1976 Convert
1975 850T -750S Project - 1975 Eldorado Police
1973 Eldorado - 3x 1971 Ambassador
1970 Ambassador - 1963 Stornello Sport
1949 GTV - 1948 Airone

www.scramblercycle. com

Offline Triple Jim

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2014, 10:43:27 PM »
Compressed air is a legitimate method, but I'll cast my vote for the grease gun.  Not only is it capable of putting out approximately 100 times the pressure of shop air, but it's very safe, as long as you take normal precautions like wearing goggles.  When I wanted to pressure test the 80 gallon air tank of the 2-stage industrial air compressor I was given, I filled it with water and plumbed a gauge and a Zerk fitting.  It took two tubes of grease to do it, but I got it up to over 300 psi safely, and put it in service.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 10:45:24 PM by Triple Jim »
When the Brussels sprout fails to venture from its lair, it is time to roll a beaver up a grassy slope.

crc

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Re: Brembo Brake Check
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2014, 11:04:09 PM »
ok I didn't mention we were all stoners back then. we did get a laugh outoff the flying piston tho. off topic but how many of you have had trouble getting the beads seated with quad tire? I can give you all a secret if you like


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Harper's Moto Guzzi
Harper's Moto Guzzi. Where we still answer the phone, use the highest quality parts, and also do Transmission, rear drive, and carb rebuilds fast. Call us at 816.697.3411 and get your problems resolved.
http://www.harpermoto.com
Advertise Here